❤1107 eastren tonight I will prove Jesus power.all black and white sheep are allowed level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. Warning it is intense. Those that need a rule before you can experience. When we die our spirits know all so faith being the most powerful energy in the universe has no cause. Once u experience Jesus power. U will be like a spirit that knows all the new rule is once u know u better grow
the video is extremly misleading when I when I look on Facebook and I see some of the interactions there with *Christians* dialogue with atheists and creationists versus evolutionist I can tell the ones who have been thinking and reading Freesat bc they're winning the arguments there may be it if they destroy their opponent there was somebody who posted on my Facebook page I think this was a couple months ago and it was a there was a geology professor PhD in geology and he was challenging Jame White Dividing Line
@@MindShift-Brandon IF hell is real, it's your problem. Your position can cogently be "there is no hell" BUT IF hell is real, it's your problem, not God's.
“Finite crimes do NOT deserve infinite punishment”. Great Quote! I recently asked a Christian if it was fair for a person who never heard about Jesus to burn in hell, especially a child. Their response was “are people punished for crimes they commit even if they don’t know it’s a crime?” Yes, they might be punished but their punishment would be appropriate to the crime they committed. Not knowing something isn’t in itself a crime!
Exactly! Many christians try to excuse this with a theology of general revelation but i dont think thats biblical. It seems to me every single native american before christians came over is burning in hell for simply being placed on the wrong continent, no justice there
@@MindShift-Brandon Perhaps this is a difference btw Catholic and Protestant teachings, but the Catholic clergy always taught us that if one never heard the Gospel, he/she would not be held responsible for not believing in it.
@@Charlotte_Marteland yet somehow they justify spreading the word of Jesus knowing most people to whom they preach it will go to hell but if they never hear it all will go to heaven. It makes no sense.
@@mattf5935 That was something that I asked about as a child but received no answer beyond "We are commanded to preach the Gospel and besides, the risk of hell is worth the glory of spending eternity with God." Even as a kid, it disgusted me. Seems like the cruelest thing that one could do.
To quote Adam in Terry Pratchett's Good Omens: 'Anyway, if you stopped tellin' people it's all sorted out after they're dead, they might try sorting it all out while they're alive. '”
@@MindShift-Brandon Apologies, I should have also posted the first half of the quote: ″'I don't see what's so triflic about creating people as people and then gettin' upset 'cos they act like people,' said Adam severely.
Due to my ideas about the next world (I was a Baha'i), I thought that problems with other people will get worked out then, especially when I was in the wrong. Now that I understand that that isn't happening, those past deeds weigh on me.
The really useful part of religion - especially Christianity - is that it tells you justice and rewards and all that will happen in the great by and by - so you should just put up with tyranny and oppression and all that now. Truly the opiate of the masses - literally a narcotic pain reliever.
One thing that unnerved me when I was still a Christian was when my view of punishment changed. I had to read Discipline and Punish for a class and it highlighted how our ideas of punishment shifted towards being rehabilitative instead of punitive. For a god that is touted as being able to change any heart, but unwilling to do so to the detriment of most humans’ eternity, it was a really big nail in the coffin for my faith.
"of most humans" --- The Church teaches that damnation is a real possibility, but the Church makes no declaration of who or how many, if any, humans will be in hell.
@@fragrantdeco3579 "Bible's criteria for hell" ---- God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. A sentient creature who rejects existence itself cannot avoid an awareness of this rejection. Nor can any of us truly appreciate what it might mean to experience that instant of painful regret when time no longer pertians. We are told it would seem to take an eternity to fall into a black hole, although it is but an instant. Perhaps there is a parable for us in that natural singularity. ""the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112) "they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
@@mr.horrorchild4094 He did in Exodus in the story of the 10 plagues of Egypt. He had to continually harden the Pharaoh's heart to give him the excuse to commit atrocities that caused a lot of suffering and innocent people to die that was completely unnecessary. But God in his perfect narcissism needed to stroke himself to show his c*ck was bigger than everyone else's
@@mr.horrorchild4094god has an entire place filled with people he merely observed all of their life as they "chose" a path away from him that he never once attempted to change their hearts and try to rehabilitate them
I like the analogy that Dan Barker uses for this god sending non-believers to Hell. A husband loves his wife but she doesn't love him back so he locks her in his garage and sets her on fire.
“Lets her throw herself into the inescapable burning garage…that he built but doesn’t exist within although he is limitless he has that limit. Also she is not only his betrothed but his child also.” ~ Christianity
@@FakingANerve It's this wild combo of Stockholm Syndrome and the rationalizations of children with alcoholic and/or abusive parents. Daddy can't be bad, so I must be bad. Abuse is love.
A better Biblical analogy would be that she ended up in a fire by ignoring healthy and safety procedures, but the unloved husband saved her from the flames at the cost of his own life
God-botherers want to give him all of the credit with none of the responsibility. He basically wrote a movie and blamed the characters in the movie for his writing decisions. It’s all a game and theatrics to God.
@@MindShift-BrandonIt’s a terrible comparison. You either believe you have agency, or you don’t. If you do, then your deeds are your responsibility. If you don’t, then nothing you think or say has any meaning and there is no point in continuing to make these sorts of videos.
as a victim of narcissistic abuse from my parents. Once I learned what narcissistic abuse was I got my parents out of my life. I then started looking at the biblical god and I want him out of my life as well. He is the epitome of a malignant narcissist.
I always had a problem with god as my "heavenly father." Okay, so he's going to abuse me for 6 months then disappear forever? Actually, now that I think about it, that's infinitely better than what the Bible tells me will happen after I die.
Imagine a parent leaving a sharp knife with a two year old. Then blames the innocent child for touching it. As a result the parent says I will burn you in the garden forever and ever. No one would say that is good parenting
Imagine a disgusting old man approaching a pretty young girl and saying "I love you and if you say you love me back I will buy you lots of presents but if you don't I will severely punish you." Totally abusive
@@sulas548 -- According to the bibles, all that old Man would have to do is RAPE that young girl. If he does that, all he would have to do then is pay the dad "50 Shekels" of silver and he'd get to Marry his victim!! God believers are the LAST ones that should talk about Morals!
@@MindShift-Brandon when talking to jews they just say that the bible really does not mean what it says. my response is then I should throw it in the trash
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 Well since the Jews believe in the OT then we have the problem with the mindset of destroying and enslaving Gentiles. Because if they fully believe what is written then they also believe in these promises. In short they believe we Gentiles will either be destroyed or their slaves. Some people even asked these question in Israel the answers were quite interesting.
When I hear the "God doesn't send you to Hell you send yourself there" line I imagine God as an obnoxious older brother saying "quit hitting yourself" over and over again for eternity.
@@MindShift-BrandonNo. Not exactly. You make the decision to love God and become more like Him, or you decide to “be yourself.” If that’s what you want, that’s what you’ll have.
@@bradleyperry1735I think you are missing the larger issue. Why would God allow us all these desires, temptations, the possibility of sin? We never chose to be put in such a spiritually high risk situation. Also there are numerous people and cultures where Christianity doesn't make sense or organically fit the context. The deck is stacked against many or most humans.
"Daddy doesn't beat me because he's a bad person, he beats me because I'm really naughty. If i just stop being naughty then daddy won't beat me anymore."
@@danielrussell9416 The truth will set you free. This world, atheists and the enemy (the father of lies - Satan - the devil) offer no hope. Jesus Christ is our only hope. He reveals himself to those who seek the truth. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. ...
@@danielrussell9416 Atheists are haters of the truth (Jesus Christ). Why do atheists hate the truth? Because he tells us the truth, that we are sinners in need of God's Grace and Mercy. Pride keeps a lot of people from believing that. Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
@@sothca20001 Dead souls - if they exist at all - don't march themselves into heaven or hell - if they exist at all. Some agent - God - has to put them there.
@@roytee3127 Horse Hockey!!! If you murder someone in public, like Jack Ruby killing Lee Harvey Oswald in front of TV Cameras, and you are found guilty and sentenced to death, the "hangman" doesn't kill you, YOU have killed yourself! It is that simple! Your WILLFUL rejection of the Free [TO EVERYONE] OFFER of eternal life is YOURS to OWN UP TO!!
If a murderer is killing someone in prison multiple times and getting +25 years tacked on each time, that has got to be one of the most poorly organized prisons on the planet. After the first in-prison murder, put that mofo in solitary so that he doesn't kill any other prisoners!
Gotta love the "you're sending yourself to hell" excuse. Feels like that bully on the playground saying "stop hitting yourself" while they make your hand slap yourself.
No, it Isn't. Any More so than You And Youruself to Prison is Victim Blaming. you just nee to make God Look as bad as Possible. that lame Joke Where You say God doesn't Need Tu to make Him look bad, God doesn't that all by Himself is Not Cleaver by the way.
@@skwills1629 Wow, could that be written any more poorly? I have to wonder if English isn't your first language. And I don't need to make God look bad, his followers and holy books do that already.
@@TerraHv1 - The Irony is, I used the Follwoed and Holy Books make themselves Look Bad Joke already. All You did was Ridicule me then Repeats a Scripted Insult. Do You Really Think You are Critical of Ideas and Not People when You Demean me as a person then Say garbage Like this? All You People do is Demean and Dehumanoise Christians, and You want to say They make themselves look Bad? Their Holy Book make4 themselves Look bad? Why should IO believe that? because a Scum bag Lying Atheist said so? You have to Lie abo twhat the Bile says to Make it seem Evil, so no, Liar, thats Simply not true. But Atheist books Reveal how Awful You Atheists are. After all, Athueists Murderer Millions In the Name of Atheism and it was So Bad You Lying Scumags Deny Atheism had Anything to do with it, and You Now claim You are oh So Much More Moral than "The Religious:, as if You Psychopaths' are Any Different from Historical Atheists Who Killed to Spread Atheism. By the way The Communists did Kill to Spread Atheism. And By the way, They aren't the Only Atheist To Kill to Spread Atheism.
This is the same thing my father did to me. After he finished sexually abusing me, I was the one who had to ask God for forgiveness. And that is exactly what God does with us.
A christian once told me, very matter of factly, that I’d go to hell because I’m not a believer but my rpist would go to heaven because he is a Christian and will repent. I responded that I didn’t want to be in a “heaven” with my rpist. Or any rpists. He said I couldn’t possibly understand until I accepted Jesus. It’s really insane what they are taught to believe. I’m very thankful that I wasn’t raised with any religion and I find videos like yours helpful because this nonsense is everywhere and affects our laws and future generations. My daughter has been told since kindergarten that she’s going to hell. I’m getting kind of tired of “respecting their beliefs” 🙄 Thank you for your content. Hopefully it plants some seeds… Larger than a mustard seed 😂
Here's another one: according to Christianity, Eichman is in heaven since he "accepted Jesus" before he was hanged in Jerusalem for crimes against the Jewish people. He's in heaven now. "Saved"! Yet, every single Jew, including all those whom Eichman and the Nazis tortured and murdered, are now being tortured infinitely more than anything Eichman and the Nazis could have dreamed of. And Jews obviously DESERVE this, according to Christianity. Why, then, oppose the Holocaust? It's the LOGICAL OUTCOME of their religion.
There's just no excuse for the existence of Hell. No loving God would EVER want that for his creation, ESPECIALLY not for the crime of not being perfect.
@@Justas399god of the Bible doesn’t even follow his own law! “Thou shalt not kill” *proceeds to drown and kill entire planet I guess we will see god in hell with us……oh wait we won’t because he’s a hypocrite and gets a free pass to break his own rules. Why should we follow the laws of a hypocrite?
I used to think "Hell" is the artist's trash can, right? So, like, you don't toss your masterpieces, just your doodles. I wanted to be a masterpiece, not a doodle.
@@Justas399 you go to hell for not believing ... thats evil in and of itself and was only created to control weak beings like yourself.. Why don't you troll elsewhere and not Kristi as well... Your comments are always empty nonsense !
Your examples of God's love are freaking spot-on. I love your frankness and your ability to clarify what is actually the belief. Thank you so much for bringing this to the world. You are doing very important work here.
Except All he did was Repeat Rubbish from Atheist websites, and he did not Really Discuss Christian beliefs at All. he Repeated the Lies he got about what Christians believe from Atheist websites.
@@athar_adv - Just Look Up what Christians Actually Say instead of what This Sociopathic Atheist Pastor says. I am Really Tired of Listing the Lies and being told I am doing The Gish Gallop and How I am having an Imaginary Conversation with a Strawman Atheist and All because You Live Rent Free in My Head. I Know How You Disgusting Bigoted Atheists Work. Giving You Evidence is Dismissed as The Gish Gallop. But Honestly, can You even Prove that What Pastor Brandon of The Hoy Religion Of Atheism is Not A Religion said is True? Can You give Me Any Reason to Think This Biased, Bigoted Sociopathic Atheist is Being Truthful in Any Way Shape or Form about Christianity? I don't Mean His "De-COnversion Story", and By the way, I was Rid cued for saying De-Conversion is a SIlly Made Up Nonsense Word since Real Institutions Use it.. I don't want to hear How Brandon was a Devout Christian Who Became an Atheist because He Really Studied it. When He quotes Matt Dillahunty and other Atheists I Know came Along Earlier than he did, He is Lying when he says he came to These Conclusions on his Own. Why should I Believe what This Bigoted Sociopath Who Attacks Christianity for a Pay Cheque Says is True? Oh and Pastor Brandon is Paid by The Channel and By The Secular Student Alliance and is Part of The American Humanist Association. He is a professional Evangelist For Secular Humanism., and This is Why saying "I am just an Atheist, just a Guy Who merely lacks beleif in a god" is a Lie, too. And This Channel makes Videos Exclusively about How Christianity is Immoral and Evil and Irrational, and so are Christians, and so is the God that Supposedly doesn't Exist, so Don't Lie to Me about Brandon simply Voicing His Views as an Atheist, he is a Bigot Who Attacks Christianity. And No, Liar, Christians do Not just Sit About Attacking Atheists.
Instead of Copying hate from Atheist sites why Not Discuss what Christians Really believe? And learn to Think for Yourself instead of just sayin You Think for Yourself/
All these watered down hell excuses like "it's just separation from God' or "you send your to hell" is Christians realising how downright disgusting and immoral hell is and trying to put a more pleasant veneer over it. It still STINKS!
I almost shouted "Amen" several times during this one. I've had the same questions and raised the same points in my life and in discussions with others, but you have the deep knowledge of the Bible that I lack. I really enjoy your videos. Thanks Brandon.
He has No Knowledge of The Bible, All he did was Repeat Silly Arguments from Atheist Websites. he also Proved He doesn't Understand the Bible or Christianity at All. This is also why they tell You Not to listen to Apologists. According to them All Christians are apologists, and You Shoudn't Listen to them since They Destroy the Arguments Atheist use when Attacking their Strawman Christianity.
He has No Deep Knowledge of The Bible. All He did was Quote from what Other Atheists had said. And None of what He said was a Real Critisism of Actual Christian Beliefs in Any Form.
I was referencing his use of passages from the Bible to make his points. He clearly knows the Bible very well and I respect his knowledge. I’m guessing what he said hit pretty close to home for you and that explains your hostility.
@@BookishTexan - The Entire Point is What He said is a Lie and Not what The Bible says or what Christians Believe, and Really, saying its Close to home for Me and that Explains My Hostility is just Bullying Me. No, Idiuota, You don't get to say that to Me. Especially since Your the Ones Who are Hostile. No Amount of "Its Christians Who Threaten us with Eternal Torture for Not Believing the Right Things and You say We are Hostile" Will Change the Reality. This IUdiota Made an Anti-Christian Hate Video and You came here to Hate Christians. No, Liar, You do not Attack Ideas, Not People and You do Not have Family and Friends You Deeply Love Who are Christian. All Atheists like You do is Spew Hatred and Attack Christians All the Time. I am Not the One Who is Hostile. You are. Now Make Fun of My Random Capitals and Tell Me I Need to learn Grammar, because that's What You People do. Tell Me I worship a God Who Commits' Genocide and Talk about The Flood Killing innocent Babies and Animals. That's What You People Do. Its All You do. I Really Resent the Way You People Shift the Blame to the People You Attack and Call them Hostile. All He did was Quote the same Verses You See Other Atheists Quote. And then He Claims These verses Mean what Other Atheists Who Attack Christianity say They mean. He doesn't Clearly Know The Bible Very Well. He Knows How to Recite Rubbish that Joseph Wheelis or Joseph McCabe or Charles Bradlaugh came up with in The 19th Century and that was Kept Alive by The National Secular Society, The American Humanist Association, and Other Atheist Religious Groups. He4 doesn't Make Any Valid Points, Doesn't Address what The Verses Really mean or What The Chapters are Discussing, or what Real Christians Believe. The Same Silly Arguments He Uses here are used by Charles Bradlaugh in His Theological Essays, For Example, and I Know Bradlaugh's Works as well as the Works of Joseph McCabe and Others Really do Serve as the basis for Modern Atheist Websites and UA-cam Channels. I also Know he Quoted The Atheist Experience. That Infinite Punishment for Finite Crimes Routine for Example Shows This. Do Keep in Mind the same Words are Used, so that Styupide Excuse of it being Different People Arriving at The Same Conclusion based on the Same Evidence is an Insult to Intelligence. He Quoted The Atheist Experience. Deal with it. Deal with the Fact that He Quotes AronRa and Matt Dillahunty and Sam Harris, and Deal with The Fact that They in Turn Quoted Older Sources.
Imagine. A person spends thousands of hours to better understand the human body so that he/she can save human lives. But they go to hell because they live in Western Europe or Idia or Jordan.
Im thankful there are people like you who call out the stupidity and ignorance and narcissism and hypocrisy of the Christian god and Christianity as a whole. We need people like you to speak out like this because Christianity might make some people feel better but there is also the abuse and narcissism and ignorance and stupidity that isn’t improving a lot of peoples lives and is really hurting and damaging people.
Atheists are the Ones who are Narcists and Hypocritical. And Really, you have to Lie about what Christians beleive to Depict them as being Evil, While Anyone Who is Honest about You People Knows You are Evil.
@@MindShift-Brandon "nonsense excuses" ----- Is it not rather nonsensical to suggest a reality devoid of consequence? We cannot truly understand what it might mean to experience even an instant of painful regret when time no longer exists. Physicists tell us it would seem to take forever to fall into a black hole, although it is but an instant.
@michaelkask5674 That still makes no sense though. When you are in the most severe pain you have ever felt in your life, there's no way that you will be like "Fuck you god!" in between spurts of pain. Your mind would be more focused on the pain.
@@andrewferg8737 Where is a world without consequences? We have courts and laws. Why are you people so stuck on needing permanent and eternal torture as a consequence? Eternal punishment for finite crimes is not justice. It's just sick and twisted.
That free will excuse ignores the multitudes of people past and present who never have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel - or hear and believe a faulty version of it.
Well they're often so frustrated with the insane repression and fear in their own lives that it makes them very nasty towards the people who get to have a good time here on earth.
Try asking a Muslim to do the same thing - remember they think they'll be in heaven looking down and laughing at those being tortured in hell! Including their own relatives that weren't worthy!!!!
It doesn't have to be about bloodlust, though. That's viewing only 1 possibility. People can also be happy when they know that justice is being served. But even Christians are not only guilty of this "bloodlust" you speak of. Tons and tons of people are overjoyed by the idea of certain criminals being punished in painful ways, even being brutally tortured to death, but no one seems to make cases against that mentality (most of the time), yet we judge a god's methods? (Though we don't know them in full detail). That actually isn't fair.
@@Skylight-nn9cl There is the world of difference between a criminal receiving a finite punishment and believing that someone deserves, and will be, tortured for eternity. Your comparison is the kind of Christian excuse making that the video was about. And why shouldn't we judge a god? 'Oh' says the Christian, ' that's because we can't understand god's ways.' And whose fault is that? By Christian logic, your god's - he could have created us with the capacity to understand, but chose not to. Which makes him a wicked god, a distinctly less than omnipotent god or an incompetent god. Or even all three! What a pathetic god to believe in.
I have heard the idea that you send yourself to hell so many times. “ that the doors to hell are shut from the inside” It triggers guilt and shame in me. But then I think of why he couldn’t make a different system. He made the rules. Why can’t he make a medium place? Or train people by hand? I can’t believe I ever bought this
Yes. God made the rules. Could he have made other rules? Or is he bound by some rules outside of himself? Euthyphro, but with rules instead of morality.
Stop Quoting Atheist Websites an pretending its Your thoughts, and try learning what Real Chritians Actually believe instead of pretending this Garbage is True.
Stop Quoting Atheist Websites and pretending its Your thoughts, and try learning what Real Chritians Actually believe instead of pretending this Garbage is True.
The comparison to murder, as if all "sins" are equivalent gets me every time. But again, these people believe death row murderers get to escape the torment by saying some magic words and perfectly good, moral people get eternal fire for never saying them. Morality is not their strong suit.
@@Maddog115 Calling oneself a Christian doesn’t mean it is so. Traditional Christianity has ALWAYS said, since the beginning, that you either belong to the Church or not. There is no picking and choosing. This has been the view of Christians for 2000 years, the same as Israelites before them. You have chosen to accept the modern evangelical definition of Christianity without thinking twice about any other possibility.
No Christian Believes that I get Saved by Saying some Magical Words, and Considering You are attacking All Christians, it is Really pathetic You say this. especially when you Repeat the Lie that Perfectly moral People Go to Hell. I Know This is dogma from Your not-A-Religion Religion and I've seen you People Repeat it several Times, and its why I do not see you as a Free thinker. It is also Why I know You are a Liar. Why not deal with what Christians Actually believe instead of Lying about it? And no, Lair, that Stupide 48 housand Denominates who all split Up over disagreement Routine won't Save You as No Christians Think saying magic words saves You and No Christian Thinks Perfectly Moral People go to Hell, You People are just Scumbag liars.
Apologist: “God’s judgement is irrelevant. YOU did the sin and YOU created the punishment all on your own. My omnipotent, all-knowing, all-sovereign God was powerless to stop you!” FML
They only make these excuses because they themselves believe they are exempt from God’s “divine justice” Imagine if these two stood in front of the one true God on judgement day… which in this scenario turns out to be a seriously pissed off Allah, ready to dole out infinite punishment for their shirk. I’m willing to hazard a guess that they wouldn’t be so fond of these same excuses when they’re the ones being punished.
All people, Christian and non-Christian will be judged by their deeds. You seem to conflate being a Christian with some sort of intellectual worldview or belief system. It isn’t.
@@heethanthen Being a Christian is a way of life that requires certain actions in order to belong to the Body. Saying your a Christian doesn’t make it so. Saying you believe doesn’t make it so.
@@Maddog115 There is only one judgement. It is for all people. There are not multiple judgements, and there is no qualification in the Scriptures that only non-Christians will be judged according to their deeds. You have, once again, fallen back on evangelical talking points. This is not what Christians have believed for 2000 years.
It’s amazing to me how unconcerned most Christians seem to be about the fact that-according to their religion’s teachings- so many of their family, friends, and neighbors are doomed to eternal torment. (In fact, some seem to relish the idea!) Anyway, your video was a great takedown of some of the lamer “justifications” for the concept (as if it were justifiable! 😂) Keep up the great work -you’re on fire lately 🔥👍🏻!
The idea of free will is a rationalization for our perceived separateness. The belief in free will is a type of delusion that prevents understanding of how all the pieces fit. This lack of understanding leads to other rationalizations that lead to cognitive dissonance. This dissonance causes us to be unbalanced in mind and leads to a cynical mindset. Welcome to mysticism.
What the heck is a ‘correct choice’? Sounds like delusion. Ultimately only GOD exists as the singular substance with infinite attributes. We are just expressions of those attributes. Good and Evil, right and wrong, free will… these are rationalizations of our perceived separateness.
What You said is a Non0Sequoitur. Free Will Only means You are capable of making s choice, and is Not a Guarantee You Wil make the Right Choice. You also have a Reductive View in which all Choices ae Somehow either the Right Choice or the wrong Choice, but if I of My Own Free Will want to Eat a Pizza and not a burrito Tonight, No one things one is right and another is Wrong. Atheist Who bash Christianity Like to by Repeating these silly arguments You saw Other Atheists Repeating don't even bother Thinking Rationally Whilst saying You think Rationally, You just Say Nonsense and Hope o one notices how Irrational it is.
His arguments are From the 19th Centuiry c=and have been on Several Atheist UA-cam Videos before, and All you did was Inset words that are also on Atheist ideos. Cherry Picking,. Hypocrisy. Cognitive Dissonance. How doe his Repeating Joseph McCabes lies about what Christians think of hell in Any way Eposing Anything but the hypocrisy, Dishonesty, cherry picking, and Cognatice Dissonance of Atheists like tou People Here?
I appreciate how precise you are to this particular topic. I never understood why hell has to be forever. None of us I don’t think we can truly grasp what eternity means. We have such finite minds. The idea of hell in general has led to serious fear mongering for so many people. personally for me when I was a Christian the thought of hell would constantly plague my mind which lead to more anxiety and serious night terrors for years. Thankful now I am much happier. Keep up the great work!! You have been very helpful.
Before Hell there is Purgatory, so, if you behave in Purgatory you might go to Heaven, but, it might take thousands of years to get purified enough to enter Heaven.
Eternity means Not Beginning or ending so if You Go to Hell it is Not Eternal. By the way All He did was Copy Rubbish from Atheist sites and pretend he had the Insights, and None of this is an Accurate Way any Christian, including the Dreaded "Fundamentlist Christians", See Hell. Its just Joseph McCabe's old lies from the Early 20th Century. You do the same Thing. Christians do not Sit About fearing Hell, and that Stupoide Lie about ow back When You were a Christian The Fear of Hell was Constant is Something I see many of You Mindless atheist drones Repeating, and its not Really true. and neither is that You must Think You are a Mind reader I Find it Hilarious that You Think You Know My beliefs better Than I do routine. Instead of Rehashing Hate for Christians for no Reason why Not learn what Christians Really believe? spare me the I use to be a Christain, oy Clearly don't Understand Christianity if You repeat Dogmss from Todays Humanist Religion.
@@jwhite-1471 - The Only People who Use manipulation Like that are Atheists like You. by the way stupide, The Concept of Religion You take for Granted didn't Even Exist until the 1500's. And No stupoide, I did not say np one believed in gods Until the 1500's. Just because the pastors of Your Atheistic Religion, and I said Atheistic Religion not Atheism is a Religion, Idiota.,Indoctrinated You to see hell as Manipulation Created by Religious leaders doesn't make it true.
yes, i love the 90s comedy 'Father Ted' about catholic priests, there is an elderly, alcholic, lecherous priest and in his memories he is beating a little boy and then saying to a class on pre adolescents 'you'll burn in hell, HELL'. It is cathartic watching this show even if you are from a Protestant background.
"And what I'm frightened of: is that they call it god's love!" -Bad Religion. This is such a big issue at the very core of Christian theology. Great response!
Hell: symbolizing humanity's lust for sadistic punishment. Cruelty is the point. Sin? Piffle!!! Blame the victim much? Why were those trees in Eden in the first place - what was the point? If death was due to "the Fall" life was already eternal in the garden so why those two trees? Set up to Fail? HOW IMMORAL !!
@@MindShift-Brandon How many times must I say this? Finite crimes (sin) corrupt the immortal soul of a person. When an immortal soul gets corrupted that corruption is permanent unless that corruption gets washed away from the immortal soul through believing (trusting) the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is a very simple concept to understand, but you are refusing to accept it.
@@MindShift-Brandon Should God force people to be with him that don't want to be with him? God is NOT going to do such a thing. Whether you believe this or NOT the fact is that everyone that ends up in hell has made the choice that they don't want to be with God. There will NOT be a single person in hell that wants to be with God so they will end up being exactly where they want to be which is away from God.
@@MindShift-Brandon says: *Im not refusing to accept anything* Oh...you clearly are refusing to accept it. *and no one is forcing you to keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over.* It's NOT nonsense because it is exactly what the bible says. Finite crimes (sin) corrupt the immortal soul of a person and when an immortal soul gets corrupted that corruption is permanent unless you give God permission to wash your immortal soul clean of its corruption through believing (trusting) the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). If you want to remain corrupted then God is going to allow you to remain corrupted, and a corrupted, immortal soul is NOT going to have access to heaven to be with God.
Great video. I've studied the Problem of Hell for over two decades, read everything credible I could find on it, taught it, married a professor of religion and philosophy who is also an expert in it, and I agree with everything you say here. (And I am not an atheist; I do not believe in the God of any religion, but I believe in a transcendent reality akin to what Plotinus and the Upanishads describe.) Anyway, great job, buddy.
“Were you to tell me the existence of the universe leads you to believe there is a creator, I will not argue with you. But if you tell me this creator burns people forever if they don't accept your religion, then that is something I cannot believe”. - Hassan Radwan, a former Muslim scholar.
I never asked to be born in the first place. This is a contract I never agreed to nor had any say in from the beginning. Maybe if I had been made privy to the rules and consequences to begin with, I would have never wanted to live in the first place? This is 100% a God problem. If this is the system and set up he needs, and to tyrannically enforce it, the most loving thing to do would be to never create humans in the first place. Great video!
It's a late reply , but I like your comment and absolutely agree 100 % . I left the church system 4 years ago . I'm trying to heal from the toxic effects of religion , determine what my own beliefs are , and reprogram my own thinking . I tell myself not to carry anymore guilt and fear . I never asked to be here . I'll no longer apologize for not being perfect or for just being me . Even if God does exist , I don't want anything more to do with religion . Once again , I never asked to be here in the first place ; so , this is God's problem ( if He does exist ) , not mine .
When I was a Christian, one of the things that gave me comfort came from The River of Fire by Alexander Kalomiros, where the basic idea is that everyone goes to heaven but those who have not been redeemed experience God's presence as a burning fire. It took a while to understand that this didn't do anything to remove God's responsibility for making people and the situation this way, but it did have the benefit of making it possibly not eternal
You touched on my (at least I've never heard anyone use this) version of the watchmaker argument: Assume you find an ugly broken dysfunctional watch but on the beach. You decide you're going to examine this watch and after a brief examination you determine that the watch's defects aren't from it's aging in the sand, but it's obvious to you that the watch is relatively new. You're forced to conclude that the watch was ugly & nonfunctional as soon as it was physically created. What is your honest conclusion? Do you honestly blame that watch for it's perpetual ugly & broken condition? Alternatively, do you decide the watch was lovingly made by an extremely inept watchmaker? Perhaps on examination, you see the potential beauty of what the watch could have been, so you're forced conclude that the watchmaker was skilled, but made the watch with ill-tempered malice?
ahh very good. I ahvent heard that before for the watchmaker and yes it similar to what I am saying here. Flaws of design should go to designer, full stop.
I like that one. My version is; If a man is walking down the beach and he finds a watch he concludes it was made by a watchmaker. If he continues down the beach and finds a shoe does he conclude that it was made by the watchmaker? Asserting just 'one' designer is fallacious. This lead me to a visual image of an infinite celestial office with infinite cubical desks each occupied by infinite gods bent over a piece of paper designing their one and only item.
Nice! I have my own thought that I don't hear about. One person on their own can do or make certain things. A small team of people can make something exponentially greater. An enormous team can create something practically unimaginable, like the James Webb telescope or the Large hadron collider. If the design argument is based on looking at what things are like here and extrapolating that that's what creators must be like somewhere else, we should be defaulting to enormous teams creating all of this. An individual bringing the universe into existence would indeed be truly impressive, but you would have to abandon the intuitiveness of what we already understand creates the most impressive things.
My dad was a pastor and he struggled with the idea of hell. It was part of the doctrine that he had to follow, but he didn't preach about it, and didn't even want to talk about it. My mom knew that hell was incompatible with a loving God and when she brought it up one day, all my dad could say was, "Well, that's what the Bible says."
@@darkwind1812 Mark 9:43 talks about hell that is a fire that will never be quenched. Revelation 20:10-15 talks about the devil, the beast, and everyone who's name is not written in the book of life being thrown into the lake of fire forever. There are several more. I know a lot of apologists are trying to interpret their way around the idea of hell these days, but hell has been and will continue to be part of the doctrine for many believers. It's easy to understand why.
@@jmg94j Ecclesiastes 9:3 "For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." The main thing is that many people think that the soul is something that survives the body but that is another false teaching so the verses referred to dying forever not being tormented forever the passages have to be interpreted in accordance with the whole Bible.
@@jmg94j Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." That means that death is the payment for your sins not to be punished forever in hell. Besides, hell is the common grave of mankind, not a place of torment.
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Officer: Exercise you rights and go to jail. Do what I say and you may still go to jail Me: Heads you win, tails you win, I am dead either way. Officer: Yep, that's about the size of it.
I grew up as a fundamentalist Xristian. My father was a minister and my mother was deeply involved in apologetics. And as @MindshiftSkeptic said, apologetics provides answers to the existing believers (a comforting salve). And some may actually use the apologetics learned to engage as an honest interlocutor. Once I really began putting my beliefs under the same microscope it became clear the claims of the the Xristian holy book are no better than the claims I was taught to discredit in other religious belief systems. Love this channel always just speaking truth..shedding light where needed for those that just starting to awaken.
I love Brandon. Thank you for bringing balance to irrational myopic thinking and abdication of our own critical thinking. You are the future. Yes. I love you man. I used to listen to DC Talk Consume Me all the time. It brings tears to my eyes too. I love you man. Gosh where have you been my entire life. I love you and want to hang out with people that are nice and kind and cool and get me and just want to reason naturally. I look forward to every video you post. Congratulations on the channel and with your family. I like your studio too man. You bring me a smile amidst this horror and confusion of religion. We are powerful together brother.
The "You send yourself to Hell" argument feels like if a child did something wrong, then their parent locks them in a closet for days without food nor water, then argues they locked themselves in.
1:47. Okay I'm a little bit happily surprised. You have the same exact thought process i had. Nobody no matter how terrible they are and no matter they did could ever deserve a form of suffering that lasts for all eternity. That kind of punishment cannot fit any crime.
Haha, I love in the first minute how you described the loose, wishy washy new interpretations of hell. They might as well admit they’re making up a new religion that is more emotionally comforting. I suppose that’s the origin of every different denomination, really.
@@MindShift-BrandonActually the doctrine of the Apokatastasis is not new. It was the main doctrine of the Greek Orthodox Fathers of the first 500 years. Only 1scho taught eternal torments and that was Latin and one taught annihilation. Learn history.
@@ThemisPapaioannouAre you Greek Orthodox? He's a former Protestant talking mostly to other American Protestants. What happened within Greek Orthodox church 1500 years ago is hardly relevant. Learn some context.
Well, 500 years... in ontology, theology and history... is... a very, very short time. Isn't it? Shorter than 350 years of a slave trade, Jehovah deemed less crucial to intervene on... than one infraction... in Numbers 15:32, say? So anyway - it's often those who talk loudest, that end up 'defining the brand'.@@ThemisPapaioannou
Great video. I remember Nick Gisburne talking the horrible injustice of a hell back in the late 2000s here on youtube, and as good as he was at it, I think you explained it even better than he did.
Hell has to make sense also from the perspective of God: what does God gain from the whole system? Why does God even bother having a hell, fallen angels, and a commitment for eternity to continue punishing the crimes that people committed during their 70 or 80 years when they were alive? Clearly, the designers of this horror story never had the slightest idea of what infinity is.
Because you simply "give him no choice" but to "give you what you asked for." (What you "chose") The descriptions and apologetics Christians use just bring to mind some hairy husband in an undershirt grinning at a cowering wife who can barely see through two black eyes.
@@andresvillarreal9271 My first sentence does have a verb and is a complete sentence. Is English your second language, by any chance? The parentheses is an example and a qualifier, and is not a complete sentence. Are you familiar with informal communication? Also, what is this about "you" restricting people's choices? Are you God? I think you're confused, at the very least. I was agreeing with you; you attacked my sentence structure. Smooth. 😊
@@andresvillarreal9271 My first sentence is a complete sentence, actually, verbs and all. My first paragraph was what apologists say: we give him no choice but to send us to hell, because we have chosen to be without him. It all reminds me of what abusers say to their victims...oh, never mind. Figure it out.
One of the only "benefits" of being raised as a Jehovah's Witnesses is that we were taught that a literal and everlasting burning hell is not true or scriptural (I left JW's 35 years ago). I have nothing but empathy for those raised in other faith traditions that are indoctrinated from childhood the concept of an everlasting hell. The seeds of fear and doubt that are planted by this kind of indoctrination can be extremely difficult to escape from. Thank you Brandon for your several videos helping others cope with this issue and free themselves from this mental anguish. The truth will set you free... Where have I heard that before? ;^)
Can confirm from experience, but also witnessing the toxic and unhealthy behavior of Christians that the psychological abuse conducted by the church and pastors is very hard to overcome. Just look at the world we can't seem to move on from repeating cycles of blame, shaming, and abuse
The Thing is, The Atheist Like You Lie about what Christians believe, and Frankly, that stupoide idea that Christians are Brainwahed, which is what You mean by Indocgtrinated, Brainashed, and live in Fear and Doubt an Dread is a Lie, too., why do You People Repeat these Stupide lies You didn't even Come Up With just to Generate hatred for all Christians? Spare Me the lie that You don't Hate All Christians and that you have Family and Fiends that You Deeply love Who are Christians. You don't tell People to hate people You Love. You do tell People to Hate Christians. This is not the Christian persecution Complex, I am not Interpreting mere Disagreement as Hate, You lie to Spew Hate and that is Obvious, and You do Not attack the ides and not People.
Absolutely excellent. You are sooo good at this. I've always been a very strong atheist and never thought about " hell " that much and your take on this is perfect.
I am 33 and grew up in church. I definitely know the love of God but i relate to your deconstruction so very much. All im am doing is studying the bible and realizing how much most dont read it and just repeat what others tell them. Most people's lives are too busy they just go off what they are told. Im in year two of deconstructing.... And still studying and researching and wanting to listen to people that dont believe the same as me. That is where the gold is. Thank you!
Hi MindShift, you are producing wonderful videos that help us to understand why Christian beliefs have not made sense. I tried for years to make those beliefs make sense, but I could not, because they don't.
Where is Hell? I get that "Heaven" is meant to be the "New Jerusalem" on Earth after the second coming of Jesus, blah, blah, but where the hell is Hell?
my brother and my mom are getting closer and closer to their beliefs, while i am not really sure if it’s true. it feels really isolating, especially because i’m actually very close with them. i don’t think they’d reject me or judge me, or treat me like a project, but it makes me nervous anyways. just needed a space to talk about this. thank you for your time, and for sharing your thoughts and your story!
And they say, “when you wake up in hell you’ll believe “ and yes, yes I would. Prove hell to me now and I’ll believe from now on. That’s all I need is the proof.
It's funny, isn't it, that we can only find out if hell exists or not once we're dead, but not one of the people threatening us with hell has ever seen it in person because, you know...they aren't dead?
My response to a lot of these types of issues is “I’d’ve done it differently.” Retain whatever features you like but don’t allow sin to happen. Desire to murder is accompanied by an inability to remember how to navigate. Non-slave ships can cross the ocean but slave ships seem to keep getting turned back around. Etc etc. If you’re going to argue that god does punish sinners, you’re going to have to explain why god allows those sins to harm others instead of starting the punishment sooner. I’d’ve done it differently.
As a Jew atheist I find this one of the most confusing parts of Christianity. In the old testament god was angry and vengeful, but no hell. Then God had a son and becomes more docile and peaceful and makes hell because he liked the idea the Roman's had. Not to mention that Jesus breaks both the first and second commandments himself. Just doesn't make any consistency to me.
You know A lot of people say they found. Jesus in prison. Well, that's where I lost Jesus, it gave me time to read the Bible 2 times That's what Started me on my way to being a better person. A atheist
"God doesn't send you to Hell; you choose Hell." "No, I don't. If God is real, then I choose Heaven." "You can't choose conditionally." "That's the only way I ever make choices. Say I want to go down to Milwaukee. I decide that, rather than going down 43, I'll hug the lake and go down Lakeshore Dr. However, I see a sign that says that Lakeshore is closed because a bridge is out. I feel no need to stand by my choice if the consequence is horrible suffering. The only way I would go through with it is if somebody forced me to do it. Somebody would have to force me off that bridge, just as someone would have to force me to go to Hell."
Oh Brandon this was so well argued! you really show just how weak and pathetic the apologetics for hell are. Hell is one of my favourite topics within Christianity so I got really excited when I heard you were doing a video about it. It didn`t disappoint!
It was a Copy and Paste, proverbially speaking of joseph McCabe's Comment son hell other Athiests also Circulate without Giving credit, and it is Not Rational, it is Cheap Appeal to Emotion, and Relies on outright lying about hat he Bible says and what Christians actually believe.
Thanks for putting the final judgement into perspective. I kinda knew it, but needed somebody else to say it out loud to realise, how unfair it is to be "released" solely thanks to knowing the right attorney.
I want to show one of your videos to some of my Bible toten family. I’m just calling myself full blown atheist in the last week. Feeling very free and am ready for my family to call me crazy to try and help them
Wow...good luck with that...and I say that with sincerity. You are where I was some 40 years ago when in my early 30s, after 10 years of pondering it, I came to realize I no longer thought God exists (or that gods exist). None of my family ever really called me crazy but they were convinced I was on my way to hell since I didn't think there was a god and some even tried to convince me otherwise. I know my mother and brother carried a heavy burden for me until their respective deaths. It IS a freeing feeling until one realizes that if there isn't a god, then it is very likely humans are the only sentient beings in the entire universe...unlikely as it is for life to start and evolve to sentience. Think of it. We may be the most intelligent life form anywhere. That eventually began to weigh on my mind. I realized that at times and in some situations, I might be the only power to help someone in need. I felt an obligation to help because I believed helping was right. So it actually weighed on me. Then it dawned on me why believing in God is so appealing. Despite them saying that God expects people to do thus and so/help others/do good/etc etc, internally they can always feel like there IS a god who IS there and DOES have the power to help anyone and everyone and if they're in need or suffering it is all part of God's big plan. That is actually a very relieving feeling. So they may feel like God wants them to help...and they may even help and sacrifice much TO help, but they're really not 'on the hook' so to speak for the condition of others and the condition of the world in general. God designed it and allows it to keep going as is so they can rest assured it's all part of God's plan. Thinking 'there is a god' can actually be quite relieving. I can, as many Christians say, 'cast all my cares on this god that I can think exists and it frees my mind of any real burden.
I've noticed that many deconstructed Christians use the word "free" to describe themselves. Most importantly, free to use their own mind. Use your freedom wisely with your family.
I think it’s a mistake to compare murder to non belief. If I murder someone I’m actively harming them. Who am I harming by not believing in God? Is it God himself? In that case wouldn’t it be easy for him to convince me that he exists?
"God is powerful. God is wise. God wants a relationship with you." All those are Christian claims but they deny the obvious implication: (If true) God could ensure we all KNOW him to be real while still having the "free will" to reject a relationship. Not being the all-time Hide and Seek and Stalking champion with gaslighting and bloodlust problems.
If he was peefect and loving, and heaven was such a great place to spend eternity, he could have just started with heaven from the beginning and save everybody the negative experiences that tend to come around during a lifetime.
I remember scheduling a meeting with my pastor to talk about Hell. I didn't want to know what he thought, rather I asked if annihilation was a valid scriptural viewpoint or was it heresy? He said he thought several views could be possible scriptuarally. That kept me for about a month.
your videos are very dencely packed and eloquent thank you for making them, easy sub... ill also keep your videos in mind as a link post to respond to christian apoligetics videos i see from now on. much love sir
2 questions: When is sin firsf mentioned in the bible? Why is Satan's rebellion against God not considered "Original Sin"? According to Christian mythology without that fall episode Adam would not have sinned.
Hi Brandon! Many years ago I thought about this hell situation. The question in my mind was, if Satan is the enemy of God, and if God throws you into Hell, why would Satan torture anyone? Wouldn't he welcome you? Maybe give you a feast and welcome you into his army to one day storm the Gates of Heaven?
right? Wouldn't we be buddies that that point. But there's some christians ideas that Satan wants to cause god harm, so taking as many of his beloved creation to hell to torture forever it what would hurt god the most. Except that we have god bragging in the bible about his justice and wrath and vengeance is his he says...so...
Supposedly, Lucifer hates humans because God gave us souls (making us higher than the angels). This caused him and the other Fallen Angels to rebel and be thrown into hell. Somewhere along the road, Lucifer and Satan became a single individual aka the Devil who delights in tempting mankind to their damnation and torturing them for eternity.
PInecreek made a video overlaying text from the scriptures about God's wrathful "love" over a clip of King George's song ("You'll Be Back") from Hamilton. This came to mind when listening the priest claiming that God offers love that we have the free will to accept or reject, so he doesn't send us to hell, we send ourselves to hell ("I will kill your friends and family to remind you of my love!").
I had a purely hypothetical convo with a Christian one day, saying let’s say God exist and henceforth Heaven exist “Why would I want to live forever?” (I don’t want to live forever). He could not answer this question which I find to I be a good counter to the idea of this all loving God. If I don’t want to live forever with God then I go to hell, FOREVER is the operative word. Not one hundred not a thousand forever. But if I don’t want to go to hell then I have to forsake this core part of myself.
@@MindShift-Brandon Exactly! I asked the same question to my Christian friend and he said it’s not just living forever, it’s with God forever, but this doesn’t answer the question. If I am already satisfied with my life as a human I don’t need nor want an eternity of anything. If I am proud of a mountain bike that I built from the ground up, and it works just as well as any other, I won’t feel the need to purchase a massively expensive bike that has all the bells and whistles a biker could ask for.
The word salad spewed by these people, especially the second guy, is such nonsense. It’s so illogical it’s ridiculous. The fact that it takes ten minutes to pick apart a minute of this crap is how they get away with it. “My leader told me now I don’t have to hurt my brain actually thinking about it.”
I think about the endgame after the world is done, Christ has returned, all is said and done. What do you have? You have a world with God, with millions of people enjoying heaven and billions of people tormented in hell. Now ask, for whose benefit is all of this? If for God's benefit, then that makes him a monster. (As though God could "benefit" from anything at all!) If for the people in hell? Certainly not. If for the people in heaven, then who would design a system where one person wins for every ten people that lose? It doesn't make sense. Even if every human who ever lived went to heaven but that required one person to be tormented in hell forever, I still would not design that system.
As an ex Christian atheist I've always chopped uphill to God loves you with such deep revenants love that if you don't do exactly what he says he's going to throw you into a pit of fire where you are tortured for all eternity and forever without any hope of reprieve or parole because that's just how deeply God loves you. It's the same reason that your husband who loves you so much keeps bringing you to the hospital with this size bruises on your face because you fell down the stairs he loves you so much he doesn't know why you make him hurt you
11:29 - I feel like this argument, which is one I often here, is another one of those double standards many christians have. We're young ignorant naïve children compared to god, until God lets us do things that any loving parent would never let their kid do for any reason, least of all "to protect their free will", then suddenly we're God's peers, because most parents do let their kids make choices they would not choose for them once they become adults, so it helps them rationalize God's inaction if we're to God like adult children are to their human parents. But even then there's a huge flaw in the analogy. I have a physically and mentally handicapped younger sister in her late 30s. She still lives with, and is taken care of by, my parents. There are lots of self harming things she'd likely do if my parents let her, but even though she's physically an adult, because they love her, and know she does not have the capacity to make rational choices, they still step in whenever she's about to make a self harming choice. To me, if Hell was real, no rationale person would ever choose it, so for any human to choose hell, they'd have to be like my sister, regardless of their age, clearly still lacking the mental capacity to be trusted with making such a choice. Except God, unlike my parents, is saying that even though compared to Him these non-believers still have the mind of a young child, he's not only going to let them drink the drano they found in the cleaning supplies closet, he's going to actively watch it happen "to protect the, compared to Him, mentally 5 year olds free will". That's not love, that's unimaginable cruelty, I'd even go so far as to say out right evil. To allow any human to take actions which "choose Hell" is simply incompatible with the concept of a loving person, let alone a loving parent.
If "Hell" = disconnection from their god, somewhere with eternal power source, freedom from their god, in principle it could become a good place. And definitely better than forced praise. As long as we were free to die eventually.
I agree in my few discussion I had with Christians one of the greatest excuses on their part is "free will". You choose to go to hell because you choose to sin. For example they could still say to you that not the biblical God gave you a sinful nature but Adam and Eve. Their choice gave you that nature. I remember one online preacher saying something like this (I don't know if it was the exact wording though!): *God loves you enough to let you go to hell. If you don't want to be with him then he lets you go.* If you substitute hell with one of its interpretations: Eternal torture and put that into this sentence you get: *God loves you enough to let you go to eternal torture. If you don't want to be with him then he lets you go.* In my opinion with their excuses they make the Creator look even worse than the bible portrays him... --- There are other interesting questions to ask as well. But firstly I have to say that some question only work if you use the Christian belief-system. Because in the bible there is no mention that the snake is THE satan. So some of these questions are related to that interpretation. For example: 1. Why did he curse everything on earth after Adam and Eve sinned? 2. Why did he not curse heaven with death and decay after the first sinner satan sinned? 3. Why did he let the first sinner satan into the garden? --- The 3rd question is really interesting. Some people ignore that question directly and some admit they don't know. Others say: To test the loyality of Adam and Eve. If it was testing the loyality then it was setup by the biblical God. --- And one of the biggest problems are the 3 omni-powers. First off if you read the bible then you may recognize that the biblical God is most likely not omniscient. For that I point to Genesis 6:6-7. How can an omniscient being regret something? But Christians still claim that but what they don't understand is that omniscience does not allow free will. In the moment a being is omniscient then everything has to be predestined. Afterall the future is fully known and even your own actions are fully known. Second he is the Creator as well. That means he sets up the predestinated path. I mean theoretically you could break the "free will" and omniscience problem with the power of omnipotence but even then it looks bad. The reason why omnipotence could theoretically do this is because it can "break logic". As in example for that: Person A can lift everything. Stone B is impossible to lift. Both statements can't be true but since omnipotence has no limit it must have the ability to turn both statements to true and by that break logic. What I truly recognized is that many Christians can not comprehend these concepts or they disable their thinking on purpose so that there can be no conflict between free will and that power. I think it would be an interesting video about these concepts in correlation with the bible by the way.
A while ago i had an argument with a fundy christian, who believes god knows everything, from beginning to end. So i said, there must be no free will then, and he said Yes, there is free will, because you have a choice. I said, but if god knows what you're going to do, walk down road A, and not B, then there is no free will. He said, yes, but even though god knows what road you're gonna walk down, you still have a choice. I felt as if I was talking to a ventriloquist's puppet.
@@whitemountainapache3297 I agree. They simply lack the understanding of that concept or they deny with ill intent or through ignorant bias. It is necessary to understand that he is claimed to be the Creator and omniscient according to Christians. So he would be the existence who designes your choices. The reason for this is because he knows the consequences of every single detail he gave you would make. He would know even before he created you where you end up. That can not be denied with that power. He would even know all of his own actions too. So his own choice would have been set in the moment of his first cause of a thought. You may work around with omnipotence here but it wouldn't change the fact that he would know your end before creating you. How is it even possible to put the blame then on the creation? It is like creating a house with holes in the roof and then you dislike that after raining it gets wet inside.
I believe it was Herbert W Armstrong who said that about God loving you enough to send you to Hell. He was always preaching about The End Times. That would have been after the 1000 years of Christ's reign on Earth, after the Rapture, and tribulation.
My main idea of what hell and heaven are that they are different for every person and if there is a hell it’s a product of guilt. That’s the only way I can see it making sense, that we feel guilty for our actions to the afterlife reflects that.
I still can't have this conversation until it's explained what gods original plan for hell was before satan stole it from him to punish gods enemies for him. It had to have been created in those first 6 days, where it never became satans domain until after satan betrayed him. Then, it would need explaining why if satan stole it as his own, why he'd use it punish his enemy's enemies, instead of recruiting and praising god enemies and amass an army to take heaven back. Then, if those are satisfied, I can try to debate wether satan is actually handing out just sentences or just god himself, in guise, toying with his pitiful mortal playthings to create his own narrative and scare them into his arms out of disguise.
I love this video! ❤
Beyond cool to hear from you! Im a huge fan and you’ve been very inspirational to me. Thanks for stopping by!
@@MindShift-Brandon thanks for becoming a content creator. Your videos are excellent my friend.
❤1107 eastren tonight I will prove Jesus power.all black and white sheep are allowed level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. Warning it is intense. Those that need a rule before you can experience. When we die our spirits know all so faith being the most powerful energy in the universe has no cause. Once u experience Jesus power. U will be like a spirit that knows all the new rule is once u know u better grow
the video is extremly misleading
when I when I look on Facebook and I see some of the interactions there with *Christians* dialogue with atheists and creationists versus evolutionist I can tell the ones who have been thinking and reading Freesat bc they're winning the arguments there may be it if they destroy their opponent there was somebody who posted on my Facebook page I think this was a couple months ago and it was a there was a geology professor PhD in geology and he was challenging
Jame White Dividing Line
@@MindShift-Brandon IF hell is real, it's your problem.
Your position can cogently be "there is no hell" BUT IF hell is real, it's your problem, not God's.
“Finite crimes do NOT deserve infinite punishment”. Great Quote!
I recently asked a Christian if it was fair for a person who never heard about Jesus to burn in hell, especially a child. Their response was “are people punished for crimes they commit even if they don’t know it’s a crime?”
Yes, they might be punished but their punishment would be appropriate to the crime they committed. Not knowing something isn’t in itself a crime!
Exactly! Many christians try to excuse this with a theology of general revelation but i dont think thats biblical. It seems to me every single native american before christians came over is burning in hell for simply being placed on the wrong continent, no justice there
@@MindShift-Brandon Perhaps this is a difference btw Catholic and Protestant teachings, but the Catholic clergy always taught us that if one never heard the Gospel, he/she would not be held responsible for not believing in it.
Yes thats based off one verse that i don’t find convincing at all. Just another way to make themselves feel better about all the unreached
@@Charlotte_Marteland yet somehow they justify spreading the word of Jesus knowing most people to whom they preach it will go to hell but if they never hear it all will go to heaven. It makes no sense.
@@mattf5935 That was something that I asked about as a child but received no answer beyond "We are commanded to preach the Gospel and besides, the risk of hell is worth the glory of spending eternity with God." Even as a kid, it disgusted me. Seems like the cruelest thing that one could do.
To quote Adam in Terry Pratchett's Good Omens: 'Anyway, if you stopped tellin' people it's all sorted out after they're dead, they might try sorting it all out while they're alive. '”
Ohh i love that
@@MindShift-Brandon Apologies, I should have also posted the first half of the quote: ″'I don't see what's so triflic about creating people as people and then gettin' upset 'cos they act like people,' said Adam severely.
Due to my ideas about the next world (I was a Baha'i), I thought that problems with other people will get worked out then, especially when I was in the wrong. Now that I understand that that isn't happening, those past deeds weigh on me.
Love that. Nicely said.
The really useful part of religion - especially Christianity - is that it tells you justice and rewards and all that will happen in the great by and by - so you should just put up with tyranny and oppression and all that now. Truly the opiate of the masses - literally a narcotic pain reliever.
Us sending ourselves to hell, is Like saying "I didn't murder him, I just pushed him, physics did the rest."
“I did nothing! The pavement was his enemy!” - Twins
lol yes! That’s a great analogy.
For the wages of sin is death
Its also like saying, "Stalin didnt send anyone to the goolags. They sent themselves. They wouldnt follow his rules."
Exactly. I’m so tired at that deflection.
One thing that unnerved me when I was still a Christian was when my view of punishment changed. I had to read Discipline and Punish for a class and it highlighted how our ideas of punishment shifted towards being rehabilitative instead of punitive. For a god that is touted as being able to change any heart, but unwilling to do so to the detriment of most humans’ eternity, it was a really big nail in the coffin for my faith.
exactly this!
"of most humans" ---
The Church teaches that damnation is a real possibility, but the Church makes no declaration of who or how many, if any, humans will be in hell.
@@fragrantdeco3579 "Bible's criteria for hell" ----
God is existence in and of Himself.
To be without God is to not exist.
A sentient creature who rejects existence itself cannot avoid an awareness of this rejection. Nor can any of us truly appreciate what it might mean to experience that instant of painful regret when time no longer pertians.
We are told it would seem to take an eternity to fall into a black hole, although it is but an instant. Perhaps there is a parable for us in that natural singularity.
""the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away"
(Psalm 112)
"they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing”
(Isaiah 41)
@@mr.horrorchild4094 He did in Exodus in the story of the 10 plagues of Egypt. He had to continually harden the Pharaoh's heart to give him the excuse to commit atrocities that caused a lot of suffering and innocent people to die that was completely unnecessary. But God in his perfect narcissism needed to stroke himself to show his c*ck was bigger than everyone else's
@@mr.horrorchild4094god has an entire place filled with people he merely observed all of their life as they "chose" a path away from him that he never once attempted to change their hearts and try to rehabilitate them
I like the analogy that Dan Barker uses for this god sending non-believers to Hell. A husband loves his wife but she doesn't love him back so he locks her in his garage and sets her on fire.
Yup. Hell analogies are my favorite because as soon as its not god doing it, its so obviously horrendous.
@@MindShift-BrandonIt always baffles me how many passes theists give god for being an absolute monster all while claiming he's omnibenevolent.
“Lets her throw herself into the inescapable burning garage…that he built but doesn’t exist within although he is limitless he has that limit. Also she is not only his betrothed but his child also.” ~ Christianity
@@FakingANerve It's this wild combo of Stockholm Syndrome and the rationalizations of children with alcoholic and/or abusive parents. Daddy can't be bad, so I must be bad. Abuse is love.
A better Biblical analogy would be that she ended up in a fire by ignoring healthy and safety procedures, but the unloved husband saved her from the flames at the cost of his own life
God-botherers want to give him all of the credit with none of the responsibility. He basically wrote a movie and blamed the characters in the movie for his writing decisions. It’s all a game and theatrics to God.
What a great comparison. Ill be stealing that one lol.
God-botherers...
That brought back memories of Cool Hard Logic.
@@anonymouswon7000 Yes. And this is also why the concept of libertarian free will is incoherent.
Well even sadistic gods must get their entertainment somehow.
@@MindShift-BrandonIt’s a terrible comparison. You either believe you have agency, or you don’t. If you do, then your deeds are your responsibility. If you don’t, then nothing you think or say has any meaning and there is no point in continuing to make these sorts of videos.
as a victim of narcissistic abuse from my parents. Once I learned what narcissistic abuse was I got my parents out of my life. I then started looking at the biblical god and I want him out of my life as well. He is the epitome of a malignant narcissist.
100%
Good for you! I put up with it from my spouse for 20 years, I'm still in therapy 30 years on.
@@aubreyleonae4108 many therapist are also narcs. be careful
Abrahamic religions are inherently narcissistic. There's a serious problem with cultural narcissism in the middle east.
I always had a problem with god as my "heavenly father." Okay, so he's going to abuse me for 6 months then disappear forever? Actually, now that I think about it, that's infinitely better than what the Bible tells me will happen after I die.
Imagine a parent leaving a sharp knife with a two year old. Then blames the innocent child for touching it. As a result the parent says I will burn you in the garden forever and ever. No one would say that is good parenting
it really is this simple.
Imagine a disgusting old man approaching a pretty young girl and saying "I love you and if you say you love me back I will buy you lots of presents but if you don't I will severely punish you."
Totally abusive
@@sulas548 -- According to the bibles, all that old Man would have to do is RAPE that young girl. If he does that, all he would have to do then is pay the dad "50 Shekels" of silver and he'd get to Marry his victim!!
God believers are the LAST ones that should talk about Morals!
@@MindShift-Brandon when talking to jews they just say that the bible really does not mean what it says. my response is then I should throw it in the trash
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932
Well since the Jews believe in the OT then we have the problem with the mindset of destroying and enslaving Gentiles. Because if they fully believe what is written then they also believe in these promises. In short they believe we Gentiles will either be destroyed or their slaves. Some people even asked these question in Israel the answers were quite interesting.
When I hear the "God doesn't send you to Hell you send yourself there" line I imagine God as an obnoxious older brother saying "quit hitting yourself" over and over again for eternity.
Ha yes. Exsctly
😄😄 I usually reply with, I do? Okay, I choose not to go there. Or heaven. Now what?
@@MindShift-BrandonNo. Not exactly. You make the decision to love God and become more like Him, or you decide to “be yourself.” If that’s what you want, that’s what you’ll have.
@@bradleyperry1735 oh good who the hell would want to be the christian murderous jealous petty god christian god is.
@@bradleyperry1735I think you are missing the larger issue. Why would God allow us all these desires, temptations, the possibility of sin? We never chose to be put in such a spiritually high risk situation. Also there are numerous people and cultures where Christianity doesn't make sense or organically fit the context. The deck is stacked against many or most humans.
"Daddy doesn't beat me because he's a bad person, he beats me because I'm really naughty. If i just stop being naughty then daddy won't beat me anymore."
Its just so very sad
Christianity is an abusive relationship.
@@danielrussell9416 The truth will set you free. This world, atheists and the enemy (the father of lies - Satan - the devil) offer no hope.
Jesus Christ is our only hope.
He reveals himself to those who seek the truth.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. ...
@@paulgemme6056 Thank you for proving my point.
@@danielrussell9416 Atheists are haters of the truth (Jesus Christ). Why do atheists hate the truth? Because he tells us the truth, that we are sinners in need of God's Grace and Mercy. Pride keeps a lot of people from believing that.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
"If hell were real, each occupant would be a shining reminder that god has failed."
-- Robert Ingersoll
A God that threatens eternal pain should be loathed, unloved, cursed, unforgiven and not worshipped.
God doesn't put ANYONY in hell! WE put ourselves!
@@sothca20001 Dead souls - if they exist at all - don't march themselves into heaven or hell - if they exist at all. Some agent - God - has to put them there.
@@roytee3127 Horse Hockey!!! If you murder someone in public, like Jack Ruby killing Lee Harvey Oswald in front of TV Cameras, and you are found guilty and sentenced to death, the "hangman" doesn't kill you, YOU have killed yourself! It is that simple! Your WILLFUL rejection of the Free [TO EVERYONE] OFFER of eternal life is YOURS to OWN UP TO!!
If a murderer is killing someone in prison multiple times and getting +25 years tacked on each time, that has got to be one of the most poorly organized prisons on the planet. After the first in-prison murder, put that mofo in solitary so that he doesn't kill any other prisoners!
Yes the example fails in so many manipulative ways
Gotta love the "you're sending yourself to hell" excuse. Feels like that bully on the playground saying "stop hitting yourself" while they make your hand slap yourself.
Yes exactly!
You send yourself to hell is literally just victim blaming.
Yup. Just pathetic
No, it Isn't. Any More so than You And Youruself to Prison is Victim Blaming. you just nee to make God Look as bad as Possible. that lame Joke Where You say God doesn't Need Tu to make Him look bad, God doesn't that all by Himself is Not Cleaver by the way.
@@skwills1629 Wow, could that be written any more poorly? I have to wonder if English isn't your first language. And I don't need to make God look bad, his followers and holy books do that already.
@@TerraHv1 - The Irony is, I used the Follwoed and Holy Books make themselves Look Bad Joke already. All You did was Ridicule me then Repeats a Scripted Insult. Do You Really Think You are Critical of Ideas and Not People when You Demean me as a person then Say garbage Like this?
All You People do is Demean and Dehumanoise Christians, and You want to say They make themselves look Bad? Their Holy Book make4 themselves Look bad? Why should IO believe that? because a Scum bag Lying Atheist said so? You have to Lie abo twhat the Bile says to Make it seem Evil, so no, Liar, thats Simply not true. But Atheist books Reveal how Awful You Atheists are.
After all, Athueists Murderer Millions In the Name of Atheism and it was So Bad You Lying Scumags Deny Atheism had Anything to do with it, and You Now claim You are oh So Much More Moral than "The Religious:, as if You Psychopaths' are Any Different from Historical Atheists Who Killed to Spread Atheism. By the way The Communists did Kill to Spread Atheism. And By the way, They aren't the Only Atheist To Kill to Spread Atheism.
@@skwills1629can you explain this
This is the same thing my father did to me. After he finished sexually abusing me, I was the one who had to ask God for forgiveness.
And that is exactly what God does with us.
I am so sorry to hear that! And sadly yes. It is a perfect example
That's literally f'ed up.
So sorry to hear that happened to you. Such a horrible experience to go through. And then you'll hear a Christian saying its God's plan🤦🤦
Jesus Christ, that's depressing. Hope you're doing well.
Damn, that's soo wrong. I truly hope you are in a better place now, and have the support you need to work on recovering from that, double evil!
A christian once told me, very matter of factly, that I’d go to hell because I’m not a believer but my rpist would go to heaven because he is a Christian and will repent. I responded that I didn’t want to be in a “heaven” with my rpist. Or any rpists. He said I couldn’t possibly understand until I accepted Jesus.
It’s really insane what they are taught to believe. I’m very thankful that I wasn’t raised with any religion and I find videos like yours helpful because this nonsense is everywhere and affects our laws and future generations.
My daughter has been told since kindergarten that she’s going to hell. I’m getting kind of tired of “respecting their beliefs” 🙄
Thank you for your content. Hopefully it plants some seeds…
Larger than a mustard seed 😂
Here's another one: according to Christianity, Eichman is in heaven since he "accepted Jesus" before he was hanged in Jerusalem for crimes against the Jewish people.
He's in heaven now. "Saved"!
Yet, every single Jew, including all those whom Eichman and the Nazis tortured and murdered, are now being tortured infinitely more than anything Eichman and the Nazis could have dreamed of.
And Jews obviously DESERVE this, according to Christianity.
Why, then, oppose the Holocaust? It's the LOGICAL OUTCOME of their religion.
We have to respect heinous ideas and doctrines?
Christians really need to work on their marketing. 😬
@@utubepunk 🤣 that was my thought when he said it!
Jesus! What a disgusting thing to even imagine believing, let alone saying to someone!😳
There's just no excuse for the existence of Hell. No loving God would EVER want that for his creation, ESPECIALLY not for the crime of not being perfect.
Agreed. 0 excuses
You don't go to hell for not being perfect but for breaking God's Law willfully.
@@Justas399god of the Bible doesn’t even follow his own law!
“Thou shalt not kill”
*proceeds to drown and kill entire planet
I guess we will see god in hell with us……oh wait we won’t because he’s a hypocrite and gets a free pass to break his own rules.
Why should we follow the laws of a hypocrite?
I used to think "Hell" is the artist's trash can, right? So, like, you don't toss your masterpieces, just your doodles. I wanted to be a masterpiece, not a doodle.
@@Justas399 you go to hell for not believing ... thats evil in and of itself and was only created to control weak beings like yourself.. Why don't you troll elsewhere and not Kristi as well... Your comments are always empty nonsense !
Your examples of God's love are freaking spot-on. I love your frankness and your ability to clarify what is actually the belief. Thank you so much for bringing this to the world. You are doing very important work here.
Your comments always encourage and make me smile! Thank you
Except All he did was Repeat Rubbish from Atheist websites, and he did not Really Discuss Christian beliefs at All. he Repeated the Lies he got about what Christians believe from Atheist websites.
@@skwills1629damn someone has to snort a line off the grundle of Satan's ass to say dumb shit like this
@@skwills1629What lies, exactly? It'd be helpful if you stated them.
@@athar_adv - Just Look Up what Christians Actually Say instead of what This Sociopathic Atheist Pastor says. I am Really Tired of Listing the Lies and being told I am doing The Gish Gallop and How I am having an Imaginary Conversation with a Strawman Atheist and All because You Live Rent Free in My Head. I Know How You Disgusting Bigoted Atheists Work. Giving You Evidence is Dismissed as The Gish Gallop. But Honestly, can You even Prove that What Pastor Brandon of The Hoy Religion Of Atheism is Not A Religion said is True? Can You give Me Any Reason to Think This Biased, Bigoted Sociopathic Atheist is Being Truthful in Any Way Shape or Form about Christianity?
I don't Mean His "De-COnversion Story", and By the way, I was Rid cued for saying De-Conversion is a SIlly Made Up Nonsense Word since Real Institutions Use it.. I don't want to hear How Brandon was a Devout Christian Who Became an Atheist because He Really Studied it. When He quotes Matt Dillahunty and other Atheists I Know came Along Earlier than he did, He is Lying when he says he came to These Conclusions on his Own.
Why should I Believe what This Bigoted Sociopath Who Attacks Christianity for a Pay Cheque Says is True?
Oh and Pastor Brandon is Paid by The Channel and By The Secular Student Alliance and is Part of The American Humanist Association. He is a professional Evangelist For Secular Humanism., and This is Why saying "I am just an Atheist, just a Guy Who merely lacks beleif in a god" is a Lie, too.
And This Channel makes Videos Exclusively about How Christianity is Immoral and Evil and Irrational, and so are Christians, and so is the God that Supposedly doesn't Exist, so Don't Lie to Me about Brandon simply Voicing His Views as an Atheist, he is a Bigot Who Attacks Christianity.
And No, Liar, Christians do Not just Sit About Attacking Atheists.
Any belief that requires a human or animal sacrificial murder is a VERY good indication it's a man-made issue. Thank you for your work Brandon. ✌️👍
Love that! Thank you
It's a skill issue really
Instead of Copying hate from Atheist sites why Not Discuss what Christians Really believe? And learn to Think for Yourself instead of just sayin You Think for Yourself/
@@skwills1629 I'm having trouble trying to figure out what you're even talking about.
@@markhaunert5029 - Then don't Pretend You are Smarter or More Moral than I am as You Clearly aren't Smarter than I Am or Better than I Am.
All these watered down hell excuses like "it's just separation from God' or "you send your to hell" is Christians realising how downright disgusting and immoral hell is and trying to put a more pleasant veneer over it. It still STINKS!
To high heaven!
"how downright disgusting and immoral hell is" ---
Are you suggesting an alternate reality devoid of consequence?
@@andrewferg8737, I assume the atheistic view is no afterlife at all so it’s irrelevant.
The scariest thing is how bad they want it to be true
I almost shouted "Amen" several times during this one.
I've had the same questions and raised the same points in my life and in discussions with others, but you have the deep knowledge of the Bible that I lack. I really enjoy your videos. Thanks Brandon.
Thanks, Brian! Good to see you!
He has No Knowledge of The Bible, All he did was Repeat Silly Arguments from Atheist Websites. he also Proved He doesn't Understand the Bible or Christianity at All. This is also why they tell You Not to listen to Apologists. According to them All Christians are apologists, and You Shoudn't Listen to them since They Destroy the Arguments Atheist use when Attacking their Strawman Christianity.
He has No Deep Knowledge of The Bible. All He did was Quote from what Other Atheists had said. And None of what He said was a Real Critisism of Actual Christian Beliefs in Any Form.
I was referencing his use of passages from the Bible to make his points. He clearly knows the Bible very well and I respect his knowledge.
I’m guessing what he said hit pretty close to home for you and that explains your hostility.
@@BookishTexan - The Entire Point is What He said is a Lie and Not what The Bible says or what Christians Believe, and Really, saying its Close to home for Me and that Explains My Hostility is just Bullying Me. No, Idiuota, You don't get to say that to Me. Especially since Your the Ones Who are Hostile. No Amount of "Its Christians Who Threaten us with Eternal Torture for Not Believing the Right Things and You say We are Hostile" Will Change the Reality. This IUdiota Made an Anti-Christian Hate Video and You came here to Hate Christians. No, Liar, You do not Attack Ideas, Not People and You do Not have Family and Friends You Deeply Love Who are Christian. All Atheists like You do is Spew Hatred and Attack Christians All the Time. I am Not the One Who is Hostile. You are. Now Make Fun of My Random Capitals and Tell Me I Need to learn Grammar, because that's What You People do. Tell Me I worship a God Who Commits' Genocide and Talk about The Flood Killing innocent Babies and Animals. That's What You People Do. Its All You do.
I Really Resent the Way You People Shift the Blame to the People You Attack and Call them Hostile.
All He did was Quote the same Verses You See Other Atheists Quote. And then He Claims These verses Mean what Other Atheists Who Attack Christianity say They mean. He doesn't Clearly Know The Bible Very Well. He Knows How to Recite Rubbish that Joseph Wheelis or Joseph McCabe or Charles Bradlaugh came up with in The 19th Century and that was Kept Alive by The National Secular Society, The American Humanist Association, and Other Atheist Religious Groups. He4 doesn't Make Any Valid Points, Doesn't Address what The Verses Really mean or What The Chapters are Discussing, or what Real Christians Believe.
The Same Silly Arguments He Uses here are used by Charles Bradlaugh in His Theological Essays, For Example, and I Know Bradlaugh's Works as well as the Works of Joseph McCabe and Others Really do Serve as the basis for Modern Atheist Websites and UA-cam Channels.
I also Know he Quoted The Atheist Experience. That Infinite Punishment for Finite Crimes Routine for Example Shows This. Do Keep in Mind the same Words are Used, so that Styupide Excuse of it being Different People Arriving at The Same Conclusion based on the Same Evidence is an Insult to Intelligence. He Quoted The Atheist Experience. Deal with it. Deal with the Fact that He Quotes AronRa and Matt Dillahunty and Sam Harris, and Deal with The Fact that They in Turn Quoted Older Sources.
Imagine. A person spends thousands of hours to better understand the human body so that he/she can save human lives. But they go to hell because they live in Western Europe or Idia or Jordan.
This and a billion other examples that prove god a monster
Im thankful there are people like you who call out the stupidity and ignorance and narcissism and hypocrisy of the Christian god and Christianity as a whole. We need people like you to speak out like this because Christianity might make some people feel better but there is also the abuse and narcissism and ignorance and stupidity that isn’t improving a lot of peoples lives and is really hurting and damaging people.
Agreed! And thank you very much
Atheists are the Ones who are Narcists and Hypocritical. And Really, you have to Lie about what Christians beleive to Depict them as being Evil, While Anyone Who is Honest about You People Knows You are Evil.
Truth!
Well, I was going to say, "How do you continue to sin while being tortured?" But you covered it. Great video.
Thank you! Yes just nonsense excuses
@@MindShift-Brandon "nonsense excuses" -----
Is it not rather nonsensical to suggest a reality devoid of consequence?
We cannot truly understand what it might mean to experience even an instant of painful regret when time no longer exists. Physicists tell us it would seem to take forever to fall into a black hole, although it is but an instant.
Maybe cursing God cause of the pain
Idk man i didn't really think people would get that far
@michaelkask5674 That still makes no sense though. When you are in the most severe pain you have ever felt in your life, there's no way that you will be like "Fuck you god!" in between spurts of pain. Your mind would be more focused on the pain.
@@andrewferg8737 Where is a world without consequences? We have courts and laws. Why are you people so stuck on needing permanent and eternal torture as a consequence? Eternal punishment for finite crimes is not justice. It's just sick and twisted.
That free will excuse ignores the multitudes of people past and present who never have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel - or hear and believe a faulty version of it.
Yeah 200,000 years of human existence and a book that's 3500 years old makes no sense.
How you have free will if there is a hell? Makes no sense either
I love the bloodlust in Christians eyes when they think about people burning in hell.
Well they're often so frustrated with the insane repression and fear in their own lives that it makes them very nasty towards the people who get to have a good time here on earth.
Yes many seem to revel in it
Try asking a Muslim to do the same thing - remember they think they'll be in heaven looking down and laughing at those being tortured in hell! Including their own relatives that weren't worthy!!!!
It doesn't have to be about bloodlust, though. That's viewing only 1 possibility. People can also be happy when they know that justice is being served. But even Christians are not only guilty of this "bloodlust" you speak of. Tons and tons of people are overjoyed by the idea of certain criminals being punished in painful ways, even being brutally tortured to death, but no one seems to make cases against that mentality (most of the time), yet we judge a god's methods? (Though we don't know them in full detail). That actually isn't fair.
@@Skylight-nn9cl There is the world of difference between a criminal receiving a finite punishment and believing that someone deserves, and will be, tortured for eternity.
Your comparison is the kind of Christian excuse making that the video was about.
And why shouldn't we judge a god? 'Oh' says the Christian, ' that's because we can't understand god's ways.'
And whose fault is that? By Christian logic, your god's - he could have created us with the capacity to understand, but chose not to. Which makes him a wicked god, a distinctly less than omnipotent god or an incompetent god. Or even all three!
What a pathetic god to believe in.
I have heard the idea that you send yourself to hell so many times. “ that the doors to hell are shut from the inside”
It triggers guilt and shame in me. But then I think of why he couldn’t make a different system. He made the rules. Why can’t he make a medium place? Or train people by hand? I can’t believe I ever bought this
right, once you zoom out, you realize none of this is necessary. Just stuck in the system that was preached to us.
Yes. God made the rules. Could he have made other rules? Or is he bound by some rules outside of himself? Euthyphro, but with rules instead of morality.
Stop Quoting Atheist Websites an pretending its Your thoughts, and try learning what Real Chritians Actually believe instead of pretending this Garbage is True.
Stop Quoting Atheist Websites and pretending its Your thoughts, and try learning what Real Chritians Actually believe instead of pretending this Garbage is True.
The comparison to murder, as if all "sins" are equivalent gets me every time. But again, these people believe death row murderers get to escape the torment by saying some magic words and perfectly good, moral people get eternal fire for never saying them. Morality is not their strong suit.
such a good point, Wish I would have hit that part.
@@MindShift-BrandonNo. That isn’t the Christian view.
@@Maddog115 Calling oneself a Christian doesn’t mean it is so. Traditional Christianity has ALWAYS said, since the beginning, that you either belong to the Church or not. There is no picking and choosing. This has been the view of Christians for 2000 years, the same as Israelites before them. You have chosen to accept the modern evangelical definition of Christianity without thinking twice about any other possibility.
@@jwhite-1471 Yes it does. Orthodox Christians don’t believe in this view of salvation or whatever you want to call it.
No Christian Believes that I get Saved by Saying some Magical Words, and Considering You are attacking All Christians, it is Really pathetic You say this. especially when you Repeat the Lie that Perfectly moral People Go to Hell. I Know This is dogma from Your not-A-Religion Religion and I've seen you People Repeat it several Times, and its why I do not see you as a Free thinker. It is also Why I know You are a Liar.
Why not deal with what Christians Actually believe instead of Lying about it?
And no, Lair, that Stupide 48 housand Denominates who all split Up over disagreement Routine won't Save You as No Christians Think saying magic words saves You and No Christian Thinks Perfectly Moral People go to Hell, You People are just Scumbag liars.
Apologist: “God’s judgement is irrelevant. YOU did the sin and YOU created the punishment all on your own. My omnipotent, all-knowing, all-sovereign God was powerless to stop you!”
FML
They only make these excuses because they themselves believe they are exempt from God’s “divine justice”
Imagine if these two stood in front of the one true God on judgement day… which in this scenario turns out to be a seriously pissed off Allah, ready to dole out infinite punishment for their shirk.
I’m willing to hazard a guess that they wouldn’t be so fond of these same excuses when they’re the ones being punished.
No doubt! Great point
All people, Christian and non-Christian will be judged by their deeds. You seem to conflate being a Christian with some sort of intellectual worldview or belief system. It isn’t.
@@bradleyperry1735 Are you arguing it’s NOT a belief system or worldview? Then what is it? A business?
@@heethanthen Being a Christian is a way of life that requires certain actions in order to belong to the Body. Saying your a Christian doesn’t make it so. Saying you believe doesn’t make it so.
@@Maddog115 There is only one judgement. It is for all people. There are not multiple judgements, and there is no qualification in the Scriptures that only non-Christians will be judged according to their deeds. You have, once again, fallen back on evangelical talking points. This is not what Christians have believed for 2000 years.
Hell is a vile concept. It is one heck of a Hobson's Choice.
To then "blame the victim" is such a disgusting thing.
Couldn’t agree more.
It’s amazing to me how unconcerned most Christians seem to be about the fact that-according to their religion’s teachings- so many of their family, friends, and neighbors are doomed to eternal torment. (In fact, some seem to relish the idea!)
Anyway, your video was a great takedown of some of the lamer “justifications” for the concept (as if it were justifiable! 😂)
Keep up the great work -you’re on fire lately 🔥👍🏻!
Thank you so much for those kind words and the support!
Free will is meaningless if there is only one correct choice. It's an absurd argument.
Yup!
The idea of free will is a rationalization for our perceived separateness. The belief in free will is a type of delusion that prevents understanding of how all the pieces fit. This lack of understanding leads to other rationalizations that lead to cognitive dissonance. This dissonance causes us to be unbalanced in mind and leads to a cynical mindset. Welcome to mysticism.
What the heck is a ‘correct choice’? Sounds like delusion. Ultimately only GOD exists as the singular substance with infinite attributes. We are just expressions of those attributes. Good and Evil, right and wrong, free will… these are rationalizations of our perceived separateness.
@@dustymingus2599 Believers think there is only one right choice.
What You said is a Non0Sequoitur. Free Will Only means You are capable of making s choice, and is Not a Guarantee You Wil make the Right Choice. You also have a Reductive View in which all Choices ae Somehow either the Right Choice or the wrong Choice, but if I of My Own Free Will want to Eat a Pizza and not a burrito Tonight, No one things one is right and another is Wrong.
Atheist Who bash Christianity Like to by Repeating these silly arguments You saw Other Atheists Repeating don't even bother Thinking Rationally Whilst saying You think Rationally, You just Say Nonsense and Hope o one notices how Irrational it is.
Your arguments are so refreshing and on point, calling out the cognitive dissonance and hypocritical cherrypicking in these beliefs!
appreciate your comment and you being here!
His arguments are From the 19th Centuiry c=and have been on Several Atheist UA-cam Videos before, and All you did was Inset words that are also on Atheist ideos. Cherry Picking,. Hypocrisy. Cognitive Dissonance.
How doe his Repeating Joseph McCabes lies about what Christians think of hell in Any way Eposing Anything but the hypocrisy, Dishonesty, cherry picking, and Cognatice Dissonance of Atheists like tou People Here?
I appreciate how precise you are to this particular topic. I never understood why hell has to be forever. None of us I don’t think we can truly grasp what eternity means. We have such finite minds. The idea of hell in general has led to serious fear mongering for so many people. personally for me when I was a Christian the thought of hell would constantly plague my mind which lead to more anxiety and serious night terrors for years. Thankful now I am much happier. Keep up the great work!! You have been very helpful.
Thank you much. So glad to hear you are now free from this insanity!
Before Hell there is Purgatory, so, if you behave in Purgatory you might go to Heaven, but, it might take thousands of years to get purified enough to enter Heaven.
Eternity means Not Beginning or ending so if You Go to Hell it is Not Eternal. By the way All He did was Copy Rubbish from Atheist sites and pretend he had the Insights, and None of this is an Accurate Way any Christian, including the Dreaded "Fundamentlist Christians", See Hell. Its just Joseph McCabe's old lies from the Early 20th Century.
You do the same Thing. Christians do not Sit About fearing Hell, and that Stupoide Lie about ow back When You were a Christian The Fear of Hell was Constant is Something I see many of You Mindless atheist drones Repeating, and its not Really true. and neither is that You must Think You are a Mind reader I Find it Hilarious that You Think You Know My beliefs better Than I do routine.
Instead of Rehashing Hate for Christians for no Reason why Not learn what Christians Really believe? spare me the I use to be a Christain, oy Clearly don't Understand Christianity if You repeat Dogmss from Todays Humanist Religion.
@@jwhite-1471 - The Only People who Use manipulation Like that are Atheists like You. by the way stupide, The Concept of Religion You take for Granted didn't Even Exist until the 1500's. And No stupoide, I did not say np one believed in gods Until the 1500's. Just because the pastors of Your Atheistic Religion, and I said Atheistic Religion not Atheism is a Religion, Idiota.,Indoctrinated You to see hell as Manipulation Created by Religious leaders doesn't make it true.
Hell is where the priests told little boys they’d go if they told……
Wow. Mind blown! Well put.
yes, i love the 90s comedy 'Father Ted' about catholic priests, there is an elderly, alcholic, lecherous priest and in his memories he is beating a little boy and then saying to a class on pre adolescents 'you'll burn in hell, HELL'. It is cathartic watching this show even if you are from a Protestant background.
@@alisonbrowning9620
Wtf are you talking about?
@@olyokieUK tv show called “Father Ted”. Pretty popular comedy show
@@Kelley_X
What a shame.
"And what I'm frightened of: is that they call it god's love!" -Bad Religion. This is such a big issue at the very core of Christian theology. Great response!
thank you much, appreciate you watching!
Hell: symbolizing humanity's lust for sadistic punishment. Cruelty is the point. Sin? Piffle!!! Blame the victim much? Why were those trees in Eden in the first place - what was the point? If death was due to "the Fall" life was already eternal in the garden so why those two trees? Set up to Fail? HOW IMMORAL !!
Love the analogy of your kids running out into the street, and therefore you have to punish them. That makes it all so clear!
That LA bishop did a debate with Alex O’Connor, and frankly, I don’t think he’s really that smart of a person.
How did i miss that. Ill have to go watch it asap
Thank you! Yes a billion ways out there to visualize how bad this god is.
It was on Unbelievable: ua-cam.com/video/aC9tKeJCJtM/v-deo.html
@@MindShift-Brandon
How sad for Christianity losing you. And great for us, on the other side. Thank you.
ha, that is really very kind. thank you.
@@MindShift-Brandon How many times must I say this?
Finite crimes (sin) corrupt the immortal soul of a person.
When an immortal soul gets corrupted that corruption is permanent unless that corruption gets washed away from the immortal soul through believing (trusting) the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
This is a very simple concept to understand, but you are refusing to accept it.
Im not refusing to accept anything and no one is forcing you to keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over.
@@MindShift-Brandon Should God force people to be with him that don't want to be with him?
God is NOT going to do such a thing.
Whether you believe this or NOT the fact is that everyone that ends up in hell has made the choice that they don't want to be with God.
There will NOT be a single person in hell that wants to be with God so they will end up being exactly where they want to be which is away from God.
@@MindShift-Brandon says: *Im not refusing to accept anything*
Oh...you clearly are refusing to accept it.
*and no one is forcing you to keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over.*
It's NOT nonsense because it is exactly what the bible says.
Finite crimes (sin) corrupt the immortal soul of a person and when an immortal soul gets corrupted that corruption is permanent unless you give God permission to wash your immortal soul clean of its corruption through believing (trusting) the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
If you want to remain corrupted then God is going to allow you to remain corrupted, and a corrupted, immortal soul is NOT going to have access to heaven to be with God.
Great video. I've studied the Problem of Hell for over two decades, read everything credible I could find on it, taught it, married a professor of religion and philosophy who is also an expert in it, and I agree with everything you say here. (And I am not an atheist; I do not believe in the God of any religion, but I believe in a transcendent reality akin to what Plotinus and the Upanishads describe.) Anyway, great job, buddy.
Appreciate that!
“Were you to tell me the existence of the universe leads you to believe there is a creator, I will not argue with you. But if you tell me this creator burns people forever if they don't accept your religion, then that is something I cannot believe”.
- Hassan Radwan, a former Muslim scholar.
This was a good video, I'm currently going through the deconversion process, I'm very happy now to find a new way.
Thank you! Glad to help
I never asked to be born in the first place. This is a contract I never agreed to nor had any say in from the beginning. Maybe if I had been made privy to the rules and consequences to begin with, I would have never wanted to live in the first place?
This is 100% a God problem. If this is the system and set up he needs, and to tyrannically enforce it, the most loving thing to do would be to never create humans in the first place. Great video!
"I didn't ask for this" is my favorite argument.
It's a late reply , but I like your comment and absolutely agree 100 % . I left the church system 4 years ago . I'm trying to heal from the toxic effects of religion , determine what my own beliefs are , and reprogram my own thinking . I tell myself not to carry anymore guilt and fear . I never asked to be here . I'll no longer apologize for not being perfect or for just being me . Even if God does exist , I don't want anything more to do with religion . Once again , I never asked to be here in the first place ; so , this is God's problem ( if He does exist ) , not mine .
When I was a Christian, one of the things that gave me comfort came from The River of Fire by Alexander Kalomiros, where the basic idea is that everyone goes to heaven but those who have not been redeemed experience God's presence as a burning fire. It took a while to understand that this didn't do anything to remove God's responsibility for making people and the situation this way, but it did have the benefit of making it possibly not eternal
Evil people don't deserve heaven although I'm an atheist
@@unknown-ot7xy they might with due time imo even if their dipIorabIe they can stiII change with enough time
You touched on my (at least I've never heard anyone use this) version of the watchmaker argument: Assume you find an ugly broken dysfunctional watch but on the beach. You decide you're going to examine this watch and after a brief examination you determine that the watch's defects aren't from it's aging in the sand, but it's obvious to you that the watch is relatively new. You're forced to conclude that the watch was ugly & nonfunctional as soon as it was physically created. What is your honest conclusion? Do you honestly blame that watch for it's perpetual ugly & broken condition? Alternatively, do you decide the watch was lovingly made by an extremely inept watchmaker? Perhaps on examination, you see the potential beauty of what the watch could have been, so you're forced conclude that the watchmaker was skilled, but made the watch with ill-tempered malice?
ahh very good. I ahvent heard that before for the watchmaker and yes it similar to what I am saying here. Flaws of design should go to designer, full stop.
Love it! Good idea to use Christian tropes against them to illustrate the absurdities of their claims.
I like that one.
My version is;
If a man is walking down the beach and he finds a watch he concludes it was made by a watchmaker.
If he continues down the beach and finds a shoe does he conclude that it was made by the watchmaker?
Asserting just 'one' designer is fallacious.
This lead me to a visual image of an infinite celestial office with infinite cubical desks each occupied by infinite gods bent over a piece of paper designing their one and only item.
Nice! I have my own thought that I don't hear about. One person on their own can do or make certain things. A small team of people can make something exponentially greater. An enormous team can create something practically unimaginable, like the James Webb telescope or the Large hadron collider.
If the design argument is based on looking at what things are like here and extrapolating that that's what creators must be like somewhere else, we should be defaulting to enormous teams creating all of this. An individual bringing the universe into existence would indeed be truly impressive, but you would have to abandon the intuitiveness of what we already understand creates the most impressive things.
My dad was a pastor and he struggled with the idea of hell. It was part of the doctrine that he had to follow, but he didn't preach about it, and didn't even want to talk about it. My mom knew that hell was incompatible with a loving God and when she brought it up one day, all my dad could say was, "Well, that's what the Bible says."
Just robbed of his ability to think for himself. Its just so very sad
The Bible doesn't say that bad people is tortured forever in hell that is a false teaching.
@@darkwind1812 Mark 9:43 talks about hell that is a fire that will never be quenched. Revelation 20:10-15 talks about the devil, the beast, and everyone who's name is not written in the book of life being thrown into the lake of fire forever. There are several more. I know a lot of apologists are trying to interpret their way around the idea of hell these days, but hell has been and will continue to be part of the doctrine for many believers. It's easy to understand why.
@@jmg94j Ecclesiastes 9:3
"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." The main thing is that many people think that the soul is something that survives the body but that is another false teaching so the verses referred to dying forever not being tormented forever the passages have to be interpreted in accordance with the whole Bible.
@@jmg94j Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." That means that death is the payment for your sins not to be punished forever in hell. Besides, hell is the common grave of mankind, not a place of torment.
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Stalin doesn't send you to Gulag... you send yourself.
Another great analogy!
Officer: Exercise you rights and go to jail. Do what I say and you may still go to jail
Me: Heads you win, tails you win, I am dead either way.
Officer: Yep, that's about the size of it.
Stupid analogy….
Hitler didn't send jews to concentration camps they sent themselves.
only difference is that gulag longest sentence was 10 years.
I grew up as a fundamentalist Xristian. My father was a minister and my mother was deeply involved in apologetics. And as @MindshiftSkeptic said, apologetics provides answers to the existing believers (a comforting salve). And some may actually use the apologetics learned to engage as an honest interlocutor.
Once I really began putting my beliefs under the same microscope it became clear the claims of the the Xristian holy book are no better than the claims I was taught to discredit in other religious belief systems.
Love this channel always just speaking truth..shedding light where needed for those that just starting to awaken.
Good for you. What you did is known as "the outsiders test for faith". Keep searching and being skeptical!👍🖖
Thank you so much. So glad to hear you made it out!
I love Brandon. Thank you for bringing balance to irrational myopic thinking and abdication of our own critical thinking. You are the future. Yes. I love you man. I used to listen to DC Talk Consume Me all the time. It brings tears to my eyes too. I love you man. Gosh where have you been my entire life. I love you and want to hang out with people that are nice and kind and cool and get me and just want to reason naturally. I look forward to every video you post. Congratulations on the channel and with your family. I like your studio too man. You bring me a smile amidst this horror and confusion of religion. We are powerful together brother.
Thats all very kind. Thank you
The "You send yourself to Hell" argument feels like if a child did something wrong, then their parent locks them in a closet for days without food nor water, then argues they locked themselves in.
1:47. Okay I'm a little bit happily surprised.
You have the same exact thought process i had.
Nobody no matter how terrible they are and no matter they did could ever deserve a form of suffering that lasts for all eternity.
That kind of punishment cannot fit any crime.
Haha, I love in the first minute how you described the loose, wishy washy new interpretations of hell. They might as well admit they’re making up a new religion that is more emotionally comforting. I suppose that’s the origin of every different denomination, really.
Yes indeed. Its crazy to me how editable this one true religion is lol
@@MindShift-BrandonActually the doctrine of the Apokatastasis is not new. It was the main doctrine of the Greek Orthodox Fathers of the first 500 years. Only 1scho taught eternal torments and that was Latin and one taught annihilation. Learn history.
Learn history of doctrine, you are talking nonsense. The vast majority of Christians of the first 500 years did NOT believe in eternal torments.
@@ThemisPapaioannouAre you Greek Orthodox? He's a former Protestant talking mostly to other American Protestants. What happened within Greek Orthodox church 1500 years ago is hardly relevant. Learn some context.
Well, 500 years... in ontology, theology and history... is... a very, very short time.
Isn't it?
Shorter than 350 years of a slave trade, Jehovah deemed less crucial to intervene on... than one infraction... in Numbers 15:32, say?
So anyway - it's often those who talk loudest, that end up 'defining the brand'.@@ThemisPapaioannou
Thank you for these videos.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching
Great video. I remember Nick Gisburne talking the horrible injustice of a hell back in the late 2000s here on youtube, and as good as he was at it, I think you explained it even better than he did.
Appreciate that very much! Thank you
Thanks! Love your work (but mostly your mind)!
So very kind! Thanks for this support, David!
Brandon, you are such an asset, a real powerhouse. Preach it, brother!
Thats very sweet. Thank you, Alice!
Hell has to make sense also from the perspective of God: what does God gain from the whole system? Why does God even bother having a hell, fallen angels, and a commitment for eternity to continue punishing the crimes that people committed during their 70 or 80 years when they were alive? Clearly, the designers of this horror story never had the slightest idea of what infinity is.
Because you simply "give him no choice" but to "give you what you asked for." (What you "chose")
The descriptions and apologetics Christians use just bring to mind some hairy husband in an undershirt grinning at a cowering wife who can barely see through two black eyes.
@@Juliet_Capulet I have no idea what you are trying to say. Your first sentence does not even have a verb. I am not restricting anyone's choices.
@@andresvillarreal9271 My first sentence does have a verb and is a complete sentence. Is English your second language, by any chance? The parentheses is an example and a qualifier, and is not a complete sentence. Are you familiar with informal communication? Also, what is this about "you" restricting people's choices? Are you God? I think you're confused, at the very least. I was agreeing with you; you attacked my sentence structure. Smooth. 😊
@@andresvillarreal9271 My first sentence is a complete sentence, actually, verbs and all. My first paragraph was what apologists say: we give him no choice but to send us to hell, because we have chosen to be without him. It all reminds me of what abusers say to their victims...oh, never mind. Figure it out.
@@Juliet_Capulet Learn English syntax Learn what the main verb of a sentence is. Goodbye.
One of the only "benefits" of being raised as a Jehovah's Witnesses is that we were taught that a literal and everlasting burning hell is not true or scriptural (I left JW's 35 years ago). I have nothing but empathy for those raised in other faith traditions that are indoctrinated from childhood the concept of an everlasting hell. The seeds of fear and doubt that are planted by this kind of indoctrination can be extremely difficult to escape from. Thank you Brandon for your several videos helping others cope with this issue and free themselves from this mental anguish. The truth will set you free... Where have I heard that before? ;^)
Ha! Thank you very much. No child should have to fear these made up places
IIRC, the Church of England 'abolished hell' by a writ from the Privy Council (the Private Council of the monarch).
Can confirm from experience, but also witnessing the toxic and unhealthy behavior of Christians that the psychological abuse conducted by the church and pastors is very hard to overcome. Just look at the world we can't seem to move on from repeating cycles of blame, shaming, and abuse
The Thing is, The Atheist Like You Lie about what Christians believe, and Frankly, that stupoide idea that Christians are Brainwahed, which is what You mean by Indocgtrinated, Brainashed, and live in Fear and Doubt an Dread is a Lie, too., why do You People Repeat these Stupide lies You didn't even Come Up With just to Generate hatred for all Christians? Spare Me the lie that You don't Hate All Christians and that you have Family and Fiends that You Deeply love Who are Christians. You don't tell People to hate people You Love. You do tell People to Hate Christians. This is not the Christian persecution Complex, I am not Interpreting mere Disagreement as Hate, You lie to Spew Hate and that is Obvious, and You do Not attack the ides and not People.
Thank you for addressing Barron’s philosobarfing tactic that’s present in so much of his language.
My absolute pleasure. Drives me nuts
Absolutely excellent. You are sooo good at this. I've always been a very strong atheist and never thought about " hell " that much and your take on this is perfect.
Appreciate that so much!
I am 33 and grew up in church. I definitely know the love of God but i relate to your deconstruction so very much. All im am doing is studying the bible and realizing how much most dont read it and just repeat what others tell them. Most people's lives are too busy they just go off what they are told. Im in year two of deconstructing.... And still studying and researching and wanting to listen to people that dont believe the same as me. That is where the gold is. Thank you!
Hi MindShift, you are producing wonderful videos that help us to understand why Christian beliefs have not made sense. I tried for years to make those beliefs make sense, but I could not, because they don't.
They sure dont, and thanks for watching and leaving the kind comment.
Morning, all. So much more to say about hell but heres a quick take.
Where is Hell? I get that "Heaven" is meant to be the "New Jerusalem" on Earth after the second coming of Jesus, blah, blah, but where the hell is Hell?
This guy is a natural 🤩, keep up the good work👍
Thank you very much!
my brother and my mom are getting closer and closer to their beliefs, while i am not really sure if it’s true. it feels really isolating, especially because i’m actually very close with them. i don’t think they’d reject me or judge me, or treat me like a project, but it makes me nervous anyways. just needed a space to talk about this. thank you for your time, and for sharing your thoughts and your story!
i can’t wait to hear what you have to say about annihilation and universalism.
And another *thumbs up.*
It's great to have someone with *your knowledge and experience* in the *skeptic community.*
Your Friendly Atheist :-)
thank you much!
And they say, “when you wake up in hell you’ll believe “ and yes, yes I would. Prove hell to me now and I’ll believe from now on. That’s all I need is the proof.
Right!
It's funny, isn't it, that we can only find out if hell exists or not once we're dead, but not one of the people threatening us with hell has ever seen it in person because, you know...they aren't dead?
you're so right, brother! I think Neitizche was right about Christianity, by calling it a slave religion
My response to a lot of these types of issues is “I’d’ve done it differently.”
Retain whatever features you like but don’t allow sin to happen. Desire to murder is accompanied by an inability to remember how to navigate. Non-slave ships can cross the ocean but slave ships seem to keep getting turned back around. Etc etc. If you’re going to argue that god does punish sinners, you’re going to have to explain why god allows those sins to harm others instead of starting the punishment sooner.
I’d’ve done it differently.
As a Jew atheist I find this one of the most confusing parts of Christianity. In the old testament god was angry and vengeful, but no hell. Then God had a son and becomes more docile and peaceful and makes hell because he liked the idea the Roman's had.
Not to mention that Jesus breaks both the first and second commandments himself.
Just doesn't make any consistency to me.
so true, confusion at its finest!
You know A lot of people say they found. Jesus in prison. Well, that's where I lost Jesus, it gave me time to read the Bible 2 times
That's what Started me on my way to being a better person. A atheist
Thats usually all it takes. An open and honest reading of the full bible
"God doesn't send you to Hell; you choose Hell."
"No, I don't. If God is real, then I choose Heaven."
"You can't choose conditionally."
"That's the only way I ever make choices. Say I want to go down to Milwaukee. I decide that, rather than going down 43, I'll hug the lake and go down Lakeshore Dr. However, I see a sign that says that Lakeshore is closed because a bridge is out. I feel no need to stand by my choice if the consequence is horrible suffering. The only way I would go through with it is if somebody forced me to do it. Somebody would have to force me off that bridge, just as someone would have to force me to go to Hell."
Right!!
Oh Brandon this was so well argued! you really show just how weak and pathetic the apologetics for hell are. Hell is one of my favourite topics within Christianity so I got really excited when I heard you were doing a video about it. It didn`t disappoint!
Appreciate that! Although of course i feel like i left a billion things out. Hell could be talked about forever ironically enough
It was a Copy and Paste, proverbially speaking of joseph McCabe's Comment son hell other Athiests also Circulate without Giving credit, and it is Not Rational, it is Cheap Appeal to Emotion, and Relies on outright lying about hat he Bible says and what Christians actually believe.
Thanks for putting the final judgement into perspective. I kinda knew it, but needed somebody else to say it out loud to realise, how unfair it is to be "released" solely thanks to knowing the right attorney.
I want to show one of your videos to some of my Bible toten family. I’m just calling myself full blown atheist in the last week. Feeling very free and am ready for my family to call me crazy to try and help them
Wow...good luck with that...and I say that with sincerity. You are where I was some 40 years ago when in my early 30s, after 10 years of pondering it, I came to realize I no longer thought God exists (or that gods exist). None of my family ever really called me crazy but they were convinced I was on my way to hell since I didn't think there was a god and some even tried to convince me otherwise. I know my mother and brother carried a heavy burden for me until their respective deaths. It IS a freeing feeling until one realizes that if there isn't a god, then it is very likely humans are the only sentient beings in the entire universe...unlikely as it is for life to start and evolve to sentience. Think of it. We may be the most intelligent life form anywhere. That eventually began to weigh on my mind. I realized that at times and in some situations, I might be the only power to help someone in need. I felt an obligation to help because I believed helping was right. So it actually weighed on me. Then it dawned on me why believing in God is so appealing. Despite them saying that God expects people to do thus and so/help others/do good/etc etc, internally they can always feel like there IS a god who IS there and DOES have the power to help anyone and everyone and if they're in need or suffering it is all part of God's big plan. That is actually a very relieving feeling. So they may feel like God wants them to help...and they may even help and sacrifice much TO help, but they're really not 'on the hook' so to speak for the condition of others and the condition of the world in general. God designed it and allows it to keep going as is so they can rest assured it's all part of God's plan. Thinking 'there is a god' can actually be quite relieving. I can, as many Christians say, 'cast all my cares on this god that I can think exists and it frees my mind of any real burden.
I've noticed that many deconstructed Christians use the word "free" to describe themselves. Most importantly, free to use their own mind. Use your freedom wisely with your family.
I think it’s a mistake to compare murder to non belief. If I murder someone I’m actively harming them. Who am I harming by not believing in God? Is it God himself? In that case wouldn’t it be easy for him to convince me that he exists?
such a great point!
"God is powerful. God is wise. God wants a relationship with you."
All those are Christian claims but they deny the obvious implication:
(If true) God could ensure we all KNOW him to be real while still having the "free will" to reject a relationship.
Not being the all-time Hide and Seek and Stalking champion with gaslighting and bloodlust problems.
If he was peefect and loving, and heaven was such a great place to spend eternity, he could have just started with heaven from the beginning and save everybody the negative experiences that tend to come around during a lifetime.
I remember scheduling a meeting with my pastor to talk about Hell. I didn't want to know what he thought, rather I asked if annihilation was a valid scriptural viewpoint or was it heresy? He said he thought several views could be possible scriptuarally. That kept me for about a month.
Good for you for not hanging on longer after that! And thank you so much for the kind generosity
your videos are very dencely packed and eloquent thank you for making them, easy sub... ill also keep your videos in mind as a link post to respond to christian apoligetics videos i see from now on. much love sir
Appreciate that so much. Thanks for being here!
2 questions:
When is sin firsf mentioned in the bible?
Why is Satan's rebellion against God not considered "Original Sin"? According to Christian mythology without that fall episode Adam would not have sinned.
Hi Brandon! Many years ago I thought about this hell situation. The question in my mind was, if Satan is the enemy of God, and if God throws you into Hell, why would Satan torture anyone? Wouldn't he welcome you? Maybe give you a feast and welcome you into his army to one day storm the Gates of Heaven?
right? Wouldn't we be buddies that that point. But there's some christians ideas that Satan wants to cause god harm, so taking as many of his beloved creation to hell to torture forever it what would hurt god the most. Except that we have god bragging in the bible about his justice and wrath and vengeance is his he says...so...
Supposedly, Lucifer hates humans because God gave us souls (making us higher than the angels). This caused him and the other Fallen Angels to rebel and be thrown into hell. Somewhere along the road, Lucifer and Satan became a single individual aka the Devil who delights in tempting mankind to their damnation and torturing them for eternity.
PInecreek made a video overlaying text from the scriptures about God's wrathful "love" over a clip of King George's song ("You'll Be Back") from Hamilton. This came to mind when listening the priest claiming that God offers love that we have the free will to accept or reject, so he doesn't send us to hell, we send ourselves to hell ("I will kill your friends and family to remind you of my love!").
Ohh ill have to go check that out
@@MindShift-Brandon The title is "God's message to Apostates (if God were King George III)"
I had a purely hypothetical convo with a Christian one day, saying let’s say God exist and henceforth Heaven exist “Why would I want to live forever?” (I don’t want to live forever). He could not answer this question which I find to I be a good counter to the idea of this all loving God.
If I don’t want to live forever with God then I go to hell, FOREVER is the operative word. Not one hundred not a thousand forever. But if I don’t want to go to hell then I have to forsake this core part of myself.
Yes if theres no free will to opt out of eternity then we are slaves no matter how nice the hotel
@@MindShift-Brandon Exactly! I asked the same question to my Christian friend and he said it’s not just living forever, it’s with God forever, but this doesn’t answer the question. If I am already satisfied with my life as a human I don’t need nor want an eternity of anything.
If I am proud of a mountain bike that I built from the ground up, and it works just as well as any other, I won’t feel the need to purchase a massively expensive bike that has all the bells and whistles a biker could ask for.
3:37 What about "He preached to the spirits in captivity" and "Saved those even lost in the flood"?
I love your videos. Greetings from Germany!
Glad you like them! Welcome!
The word salad spewed by these people, especially the second guy, is such nonsense. It’s so illogical it’s ridiculous. The fact that it takes ten minutes to pick apart a minute of this crap is how they get away with it. “My leader told me now I don’t have to hurt my brain actually thinking about it.”
yes! exactly.
I think about the endgame after the world is done, Christ has returned, all is said and done. What do you have? You have a world with God, with millions of people enjoying heaven and billions of people tormented in hell. Now ask, for whose benefit is all of this? If for God's benefit, then that makes him a monster. (As though God could "benefit" from anything at all!) If for the people in hell? Certainly not. If for the people in heaven, then who would design a system where one person wins for every ten people that lose? It doesn't make sense. Even if every human who ever lived went to heaven but that required one person to be tormented in hell forever, I still would not design that system.
love this!
As an ex Christian atheist I've always chopped uphill to God loves you with such deep revenants love that if you don't do exactly what he says he's going to throw you into a pit of fire where you are tortured for all eternity and forever without any hope of reprieve or parole because that's just how deeply God loves you. It's the same reason that your husband who loves you so much keeps bringing you to the hospital with this size bruises on your face because you fell down the stairs he loves you so much he doesn't know why you make him hurt you
What you described is the most endless unjust unfair system!!!
Because he is biblical illiterate.
11:29 - I feel like this argument, which is one I often here, is another one of those double standards many christians have. We're young ignorant naïve children compared to god, until God lets us do things that any loving parent would never let their kid do for any reason, least of all "to protect their free will", then suddenly we're God's peers, because most parents do let their kids make choices they would not choose for them once they become adults, so it helps them rationalize God's inaction if we're to God like adult children are to their human parents. But even then there's a huge flaw in the analogy.
I have a physically and mentally handicapped younger sister in her late 30s. She still lives with, and is taken care of by, my parents. There are lots of self harming things she'd likely do if my parents let her, but even though she's physically an adult, because they love her, and know she does not have the capacity to make rational choices, they still step in whenever she's about to make a self harming choice. To me, if Hell was real, no rationale person would ever choose it, so for any human to choose hell, they'd have to be like my sister, regardless of their age, clearly still lacking the mental capacity to be trusted with making such a choice. Except God, unlike my parents, is saying that even though compared to Him these non-believers still have the mind of a young child, he's not only going to let them drink the drano they found in the cleaning supplies closet, he's going to actively watch it happen "to protect the, compared to Him, mentally 5 year olds free will". That's not love, that's unimaginable cruelty, I'd even go so far as to say out right evil.
To allow any human to take actions which "choose Hell" is simply incompatible with the concept of a loving person, let alone a loving parent.
If "Hell" = disconnection from their god, somewhere with eternal power source, freedom from their god, in principle it could become a good place.
And definitely better than forced praise.
As long as we were free to die eventually.
I agree in my few discussion I had with Christians one of the greatest excuses on their part is "free will". You choose to go to hell because you choose to sin.
For example they could still say to you that not the biblical God gave you a sinful nature but Adam and Eve. Their choice gave you that nature.
I remember one online preacher saying something like this (I don't know if it was the exact wording though!):
*God loves you enough to let you go to hell. If you don't want to be with him then he lets you go.*
If you substitute hell with one of its interpretations: Eternal torture and put that into this sentence you get:
*God loves you enough to let you go to eternal torture. If you don't want to be with him then he lets you go.*
In my opinion with their excuses they make the Creator look even worse than the bible portrays him...
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There are other interesting questions to ask as well. But firstly I have to say that some question only work if you use the Christian belief-system. Because in the bible there is no mention that the snake is THE satan. So some of these questions are related to that interpretation.
For example:
1. Why did he curse everything on earth after Adam and Eve sinned?
2. Why did he not curse heaven with death and decay after the first sinner satan sinned?
3. Why did he let the first sinner satan into the garden?
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The 3rd question is really interesting. Some people ignore that question directly and some admit they don't know. Others say: To test the loyality of Adam and Eve. If it was testing the loyality then it was setup by the biblical God.
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And one of the biggest problems are the 3 omni-powers. First off if you read the bible then you may recognize that the biblical God is most likely not omniscient. For that I point to Genesis 6:6-7. How can an omniscient being regret something? But Christians still claim that but what they don't understand is that omniscience does not allow free will. In the moment a being is omniscient then everything has to be predestined. Afterall the future is fully known and even your own actions are fully known. Second he is the Creator as well. That means he sets up the predestinated path.
I mean theoretically you could break the "free will" and omniscience problem with the power of omnipotence but even then it looks bad. The reason why omnipotence could theoretically do this is because it can "break logic".
As in example for that:
Person A can lift everything.
Stone B is impossible to lift.
Both statements can't be true but since omnipotence has no limit it must have the ability to turn both statements to true and by that break logic.
What I truly recognized is that many Christians can not comprehend these concepts or they disable their thinking on purpose so that there can be no conflict between free will and that power.
I think it would be an interesting video about these concepts in correlation with the bible by the way.
Thank you for these thoughts!
A while ago i had an argument with a fundy christian, who believes god knows everything, from beginning to end. So i said, there must be no free will then, and he said Yes, there is free will, because you have a choice. I said, but if god knows what you're going to do, walk down road A, and not B, then there is no free will. He said, yes, but even though god knows what road you're gonna walk down, you still have a choice. I felt as if I was talking to a ventriloquist's puppet.
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I agree. They simply lack the understanding of that concept or they deny with ill intent or through ignorant bias. It is necessary to understand that he is claimed to be the Creator and omniscient according to Christians. So he would be the existence who designes your choices. The reason for this is because he knows the consequences of every single detail he gave you would make. He would know even before he created you where you end up. That can not be denied with that power. He would even know all of his own actions too. So his own choice would have been set in the moment of his first cause of a thought.
You may work around with omnipotence here but it wouldn't change the fact that he would know your end before creating you.
How is it even possible to put the blame then on the creation? It is like creating a house with holes in the roof and then you dislike that after raining it gets wet inside.
I believe it was Herbert W Armstrong who said that about God loving you enough to send you to Hell. He was always preaching about The End Times. That would have been after the 1000 years of Christ's reign on Earth, after the Rapture, and tribulation.
what on good earth is going on in the mess of the comments section, like what. very respectful and encouraging 100%
My main idea of what hell and heaven are that they are different for every person and if there is a hell it’s a product of guilt. That’s the only way I can see it making sense, that we feel guilty for our actions to the afterlife reflects that.
I still can't have this conversation until it's explained what gods original plan for hell was before satan stole it from him to punish gods enemies for him. It had to have been created in those first 6 days, where it never became satans domain until after satan betrayed him. Then, it would need explaining why if satan stole it as his own, why he'd use it punish his enemy's enemies, instead of recruiting and praising god enemies and amass an army to take heaven back. Then, if those are satisfied, I can try to debate wether satan is actually handing out just sentences or just god himself, in guise, toying with his pitiful mortal playthings to create his own narrative and scare them into his arms out of disguise.
So many good thoughts here