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The phrase "community" is overused these days. But it's truly a community behind the scenes. We are all constantly talking, sharing info and will drop what we are doing to help when asked. I had no idea it was like this going in but its a pleasant surprise.
I'm a cabinetmaker here in the UK and own both this Domino and its bigger brother the 700. I was impressed with the pocketmill and can see it's appeal to the hobbyist/keen amateur woodworker as it looks very well made and offers a decent saving over the Festool machine. However, the Domino's most important feature in my opinion is the time it saves, which for the professional woodworker matters a lot, both my Domino's have paid back their addmitaly high purchase price several times over in time saved, but I do think the pocketmill is the best Domino alternative I've seen so far. BTW, I'm new to this channel and was very impressed so you have a new subscriber....thanks for an informative and nicely presented video.
the key here is that you're working in your shop 40+ hours a week where as a hobbyist might only put in 20 hours a month. it takes a LONG time to earn back the cost difference in time saved for a tool you only use a couple times a year and I say that as a software engineer who bills 3 digits an hour. the fact that the pocketmill prevents the angle drift that happens if you lift when pushing the mill against the wood is a nice bonus too for people who rarely use the tool. I normally add a new tool when the project justifies it. it would have to be a big project to justify adding a $1000 tool that is a low frequency use item but a couple hundred dollars might be recouped in one project.
I subscribe to quite a few tool review and maker channels. I really really really (3x!) like your videos. Seriously. Funny. Insightful. Honest. Non annoying voice. Relevant. I’m a huge fan. Thank you for taking the time to do it.
Dude. Very informative, concise, organized, and helpful. Your level-headed opinion and mild humor makes for a very educational walkthrough of how to think about tool buying. Thanks!
Hey Jessem, if you read these comments WELL DONE. I admire a company that is willing to have a fair and unbiased review and it makes me more likely to consider the product. And thank you for making this video! I get pretty sick of seeing sponsored content cosplaying as just casual use *cough* *cough* rhymes with shmanto shmouter *cough* so this is awesome.
You rock. I bought my Domino about 15 years ago. Yes, I use it relatively rarely as a home hobbyist, but it makes me better at be the craft with very little skill on my part. I'm an Android guy, but this time I'll take the Apple-like Festool implementation. Except in rare cases, it just works.
I’d just like to make one comment. A looser slot is not bad because if the tenon is too tight you’re not getting a good amount of room for the glue. Good glue, good joint. Great video , well done young grasshopper
I'm a pretty serious hobbyist woodworker and I want to compliment you that your videos are OUTSTANDING. Great thought & insight. I am subscribing NOW as what you do in your reviews is heads and shoulders above what most people do.
The full length cutting flutes are why the Jessem slots are wider at the top compared to the Festool’s cutter having a reduced diameter, non-cutting shank. As the Jessem’s tool is cutting the deepest passes, it’s also cutting the top. This will get worse as the tip wears and the higher edges remain fresh. Still a compelling budget option, of course; just thought I’d share some machinist perspective on why the tops of the slots were wider on one and not the other 🤘🏼
Generally speaking, drills and I expect these bits are ground with a slight taper (towards the blunt end). This is done to prevent rubbing or binding of the drill in the hole. Therefore it seems unlikely that the hole is wider for the reason you suggest.
IMHO the question has never been which machine you need. If you are a professional the Festool is the machine for you while it is totally over the top for an amateur. The real question is if you can do all the things the Festool can with this jig and yes you can. And I doubt that the router bit will cut the beginning wider while cutting the deeper parts because this would mean lot of vibrations in the router bit. More likely the it isn't as tightly guided when it starts cutting.
I'm an old carpenter transitioning into more fancy woodworking projects, so I do this professionally. When it comes to buying tools, I've mostly regretted buying a cheaper work around tool. I don't own a domino, mostly because I haven't had the need for one...yet. But if a job came up that the domino would save me lots of hours and aggravation, I would buy one quicker than you can say "domino". Woodworkers did just fine without one for decades but the domino does change the playing field as most innovative tools do. To stay competitive, sometimes you just gotta buy the tool that'll get you there. There's definitely a domino in my future when the right job comes up for me to justify the purchase.
I have to agree. Buy once cry once is rarely wrong if you will use a tool more than three times. Time is money, for sure. But aggravation over wasted money on a subpar tool is also a factor. At least it is for me. 😂
What’s the use case that would make you stop and say, “okay, right now is when the domino is going to stand out and do something faster/better/cheaper than anything else?” I’m seriously mystified what that scenario is, and I’m a cabinet maker, also doors and furniture. I’ve used the domino but in my experience, it’s clunky, awkward, and doesn’t do anything that other tools do better. It doesn’t seem to do anything notable other than drill a weird sized hole. To be fair, the same looks to me to be true of the tool in this video. My usual process is to grab one of the jigs that I’ve made for drilling pairs of dowels. Occasionally I make a new one to customize the dowel size or distance apart. The domino concept locks me into fewer options, for no time saving I can see and obviously the price is absurd. Is there something these tools do that justifies having them?
Thanks for this review! I struggle with spending so much on a single use tool given the volume of work I do. Really appreciate the no nonsense reviews!
Frankly speaking, I'd probably end up with both in the long run. The Domino is for anyone who produces furniture and built-ins. Every minute matters when that's your situation. However, for that situation to matter, you need to be a Pro or Semi-pro in the first place. If you kick round in the shop from time to time with barely a carcass or sanding cutting boards, you don't need to drop $1200 or more for a domino. Also, the best thing about Festool is keeping dust low within your workspace. Loose Tenon Joinery has many ways to get the job done. Reading is fundamental. You have a few solid options depending on your skillset, how comfortable you are in the shop, and your need for time/access to resources. A router can do everything the domino can do with the help of jigs. However, that takes you being comfortable with using it and sacrificing time. The Pocket Mill needs setup time like Batman. However, it looks simple to use and costs like half the price of a domino. So, I can see how either can be your personal solution. I still want a domino, personally. It's likely my next major purchase.
For a 25 year old trying to figure out the best way to spend my money on tools, I can’t thank you enough for this review. Was about to pull the trigger on a dowel jig when I saw JessEm released the pocket mill, and have been waiting for someone I “knew” (aka UA-camr I watched) to review it. Great job.
Thank you, I’m a hobbyist but do take a few commissions. I do mostly hand tool work but the power tools I use regularly are all top of the line . I was about to buy a domino basically to have one I use a router or beadlock for loose tenons and really don’t have a problem with either. I was ready to pull the trigger on a domino a couple months back when I saw Jess em advertising for presale . Since then I’ve been on the fence. Your no nonsense video plus I trust your opinion made the difference. Thank you and I’ll be ordering the Jess em soon.
Your videos are so organized and I really enjoy watching them! You have grown so much in the time I’ve been watching! You have helped me grow as well. It’s really overwhelming as a beginner woodworker. So much to learn and I really appreciate your honest straight forward thoughts.
These tools are cool and it was a great review. I am a little old school and if you have a vice and a router with a fence, then loose mortise and tenon is entirely possible without limits.
EVERYONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. This is how you comment on a video while having a different idea/belief. Its objective, it's to the point and doesn't try to gatekeep for new woodworkers. Well done, Roby, well done!
@@jeremycoyle2782 maybe he meant to write "vice"... :) could be the secret to good mortises... drinking, smoking, too much fried food... worth a try :)
The big advantage of the Domino for the hobbyist is its simplicity. I might go two months w/o needing it, but when I do I don't need a refresher on how it works. Additionally, there are so few accessories that I need to store and setup. I can't imagine being able to say that about the Pocketmill. That said, Jon's right about Domino's weaknesses. We all have to weigh the pros and cons. Even after this excellent review I would still buy a Domino.
This! I’m purely a hobbyist and whenever I can get shop time the most important thing to me is efficiency. Domino is expensive as hell but it’s so easy to use. I can go months without using it but when I come back there’s nothing to think about. You just do.
I sold my Domino because it was so inaccurate that I spent more time fixing my joints than it was worth. I own several Festool products and really the only one worth a crap is the track saw.
I this is such a great and useful review. I feel like we are entering a golden age of woodworking UA-cam where everyone is synergistically working together to make the entire community better. So cool to be along for the ride.
Excellent video as usual. I’ve had the Domino for 10 years as a hobbyist and full time woodworker. I’ve never regretted buying it. The Jessem unit looks like a good tool but it requires marking locations, using Allen wrenches and a lot of extra setup. Buying the extra jigs, keeping track of them, transporting them, and still being much slower than a Domino. I’d really recommend someone comparing both systems to use pocket screws or screws and plugs until you can afford the Domino. It really opens new doors in woodworking because you can make strong, hidden joinery very quickly.
The pocketmill looks really well engineered, but for me based in Germany it is simply not cheap enough to be an alternative. In fact, it wouldn't even be cheaper after all, considering the Domino is a machine on its own. Street price for the DF 500 is less than 900€, and to pay 540 USD (which is about 500€ today) + international shipping + import duties and taxes means I would probably save less than 200€. Which would be the cost of a decent quality cordless drill, conincidentally.
Excellent! . . . And I own a Domino XL, teach woodworking, and have over 40yrs experience as a pro cabinetmaker and finish carpenter. You covered all the bases quickly and succinctly. Thank you!
My concern is future availability of the drill/end mill cutting tool...what happens when Jessem decides to stop manufacturing the jig and the specialty end mills?
If you're inclined to use something like the Jess-Em, I'd advise building a jig similar to the one they're selling and and use it with a plunge router topside. I built such a jig years ago and it works great for more cuts than you can anticipate. But I don't happen to hate using a router, especially in a totally controlled setup. That being said, I also have a Domino which is necessary for large, heavy members, or, of course, on site.
First, I am not "anti-Domino". I have used one to create several pieces of furniture. I also know how to create saw/chisel mortise/tenons. I understand the perceived strength advantage of Dominos, but in the real world, I have never had a Beadlock or dowel joint fail. Also, cost-to-build vs. price is built into my pieces, so saving 10, 20 or 30 minutes per piece is negligible. My experience is that I needed to clamp the Domino in place because it is hard to accurately hold onto everytime, which virtually negates any time savings. So, I will continue to build perfectly fine furniture without a Domino and avoid the frenzy all together. I will wait for further reviews of the Jessem jig before considering one. Thanks for a first rate video.
@@m.d.d.3051 It can make really strong joints due to the area of the Beadlock tenons (bigger than Dominos). I only use the larger size, since I use dowels for smaller joints. It was confusing at first, but once I sat down for 30 minutes (or so) with the jig and a cup of coffee, it all made sense. You can also use it as a guide for chisels for traditional mortises. I like it. Maybe I'm dense, but I've never understood the furor over Dominos.
@@richpeggyfranks490 You aren't dense, because I never understood it, either. The Domino strikes me as being as finicky as a biscuit joiner would be - and I don't like biscuit joiners either. I've been looking for a loose tenon set-up that won't break the bank, and appreciate Rockler's innovation. I appreciate your input on the Beadlock system. It's the one I've been leaning towards.
@@m.d.d.3051 I bought the Beadlock system and the thing I learned using it is that 1) loose tenons are very handy 2) A Domino is in my future. The main issue I had with it is that it's a very precise tenon using a jig that's not precise. Any issues with drilling the holes perfectly makes the tenon not fit in the mortise. I had a lot of issues with the drill bit walking in to the 'A' holes while trying to drill the 'B' holes and pulling the very tightly clamped jig sideways and sometimes out of perpendicular. Replacing the bit that comes with it with a brad bit might help. The alignment viewer would also be better with two lines to put your mark between rather than a single line that covers your mark on the wood. Alignment of the tenons is precise enough, that being off the thickness of the view finding line can leave you with uneven joints. Also, having used it a few times now, the guide bushings are starting to get sloppy from wear. Again, creating precision issues. Even as a hobby woodworker, I also found the time required to use the Beadlock jig to be too much. My time working on projects is limited, so while it's not 'time is money' as would be for a professional, it's still the difference between finishing a batch of tenons on one Saturday or two.
Yeah, but it is honesty heavily sprinkled with humor and sarcasm…the best kind! I always have to laugh when people get so tightly wrapped around the axle and think their opinion is the only one that counts. If you’re a professional, it will be super easy to justify the expense of any top end tool. For the hobbyist it’s another story…unless they have a bunch of money burning a hole in their pocket. In the end…to each their own, and with emphasis…leave them alone!
As a guy who does metal working as well as woodworking I really appreciate the robust build of the jessum jig. That build will last longer than me. It'll be handed down to loved ones long after that plastic festool will be in the landfill. Thanks for the video!
I'm used to larger, corded routers ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQ5_mgwq6PcudJvAH25t-I4D-3cTPz4z so this was a different experience for me. Basically, this is an incredibly sweet machine, fits well in the hand, etc. It has slightly less power than I'm used to, but that's understandable. Maneuvering freehand takes some practice. These days, it's especially nice to be able to avoid power cords. This is above the level of a hobbyist but below a pro level.
I'm a professional woodworker here in Atlanta Georgia. I've used both and like how fast you can things done. He failed to mention that you need the vacuum for the domino which is over 1000 USD. I'll use them if someone else supplies them. At my home shop I'll continue to cut tenon and mortise by hand. Love the content. Keep up the great work
I bought the Jessem dowel jig many years ago and can’t speak highly enough of it’s quality. While it doesn’t do miters, it’s another great option for making accurate strong joints. I’m sure the quality of this tool is no different.
I know you mentioned not liking the router jigs, but what do you think about the Mike Taylor/ 3x3 custom trim router jig for loose tenons from a couple of years back?? It accomplishes most of what this does while also keeping the router blade from being exposed like in the ones you showed.
We had a domino in our cabinet shop and we never used it. Two dowels was always sufficient and easier. I never understood the point of having one, and definitely not at $1200
I already own a domino. And I absolutely love it. Wish i would have gotten it sooner. However… there were many years I couldn’t afford it. I had a “Festool Fund” that I was saving up for one for a long time. If I had the opportunity to buy something like this back then… I would have jumped on it. Considering I already have my Domino… this tool isn’t for me. But what a great option for those out there that can’t afford it. And I just have to add I love your humor. I laughed out loud when you said “go watch another video”. Cracked me up.
As a domino owner, I have to admit I'd probably have gone with the Pocketmill had it been available when I was looking for such a tool. It is the first tool I've seen that could realistically be called a substitute for the domino.
@@CoreyShockey i think it is way to clumpy for what it does. Looks like just another domino copy that works fine, but isnt as versatile as the domino. I think the only way we get a cheaper domino is when this patent ends
I inherited various Stanley jigs and tools made during the 1940s from an uncle. They are not fancy, they are not Festool, they just work every time when I need them for the job I need done. That is the definition of the best tool there is. There are no plastic or nylon parts on any of them. The instructions Stanley provided are clear and concise. The same goes for the old Dewalt, Rockwell, and Delta tools and machinery. That said, I am not getting rid of my Makita, Ryobi, Hitachi, Milwaukee, various other off brand tools, or those I made on the fly just so I can buy Festool. Good video as always from this man.
Great channel and great video! I love how you get ahead of vindictive comments, swiftly explain why they're wrong, and tack on an extra "I don't care" for good measure! Keep up the great videos!
Great video. Your work is always so thorough, well written, great pace, and to the point with a dash of humor. I am not in the market for either tool at this time, so I wasn't looking to support any pre bias I had. It seemed, price aside, you made it look like it was actually better in some situations. No mention of Jessem choice on the supporting work station to go with the microjig clamp system. I wondered what the relationship they had with microjig. I see future creators making videos on "make your own workstation for the Jessem system" coming soon to a youtube near you because buying the whole kit and caboodle is ? 700 ? which is half the cost of the domino.
Interesting, and thank you for a fine comparison. Two things to point out, though: 1. Smaller pieces with the Domino is no problem - just clamp them down as you do with the Jessem, and, if applicable, use an equally thick piece to secure balance. Piece of cake and I have never felt this was a problem with my Domino over all the years I have had it. 2. Yes, the Domino is more expensive. Me, I save up for delicious tools by waiting another year to buy a car, and then also never buy a new car. A matter of taste, but I love working with good tools that do not frustrate me. I would obiously have to try the JessEm personally, but from what I saw in this video, I feel I would actually rather use a drill and a fine chisel than buying the JessEm in the first place, with all the hassle of creating just one hole. I think JessEm have made smarter things. But that's me.
I got into woodworking a couple years ago. Started watching some youtube vids on how to do everything. Thought the "traditional" joint stuff was really, really, cool, but never for the life of me could I figure out why somebody would go through all that trouble. Hours on a single joint or a few minutes for something that will still be strong enough to do its job? I'll take the few minutes any day. And as far as the argument goes for it "looking better", in over 30 years I never noticed the joints in woodworking until I started learning to do it myself. The only people that care about woodworking joints are other woodworkers.
I think it depends on what you're looking to get from your craft. A friend of mine hand cuts traditional joinery because he finds it relaxing and fulfilling. My interest is in the finished piece, so I don't mind using modern techniques to speed up that process.
It doesn't take hours. Yes every time I bring out the domino, I make money. But cutting "live" M+T for things like period reproductions isn't hours of extra time.
@@whitec21 I can definitely see that. And like I said, some of those crazy joints are really, really cool looking. But sadly I just never noticed them on anything until I got into the craft myself, which really made me question their actual importance. I'd probably enjoy it if I could do it lol. I'll stick with the easier ones for now.
Great video! I like your unbiased and honest approach to tool reviews. I do think that any tool that requires a lot of setting up is inevitably more prone to mistakes. Especially where you need to change the setup within the same project. I'm still amazed that so many people are so binary at the mere mention of festool. I'm lucky enough to have both dominos but I didn't start with them nor are they the only joinery system I use. Kreg pocket holes and the dowelmax are just two of the different systems I have. The dowelmax I think is a better option at this price point but I'd love to see a real head to head between dowelmax and JessEm to know if that is actually true. The inventor of the dowelmax has some great videos online and even claims his system is the strongest. JessEm are a great company too and they do make quality tools. The great thing, maybe the best thing about woodworking is there's almost always another way to achieve the same end goal. Happy making all.
I use dowels with a Task dowel alignment tool and those little pointy things make an impression on the opposing board. If I spent 100 bucks for that set-up I would be surprised.
I ordered the Jessem Pocket Mill Pro kit and all of the bits, 5MM, 8MM, 10MM, 1/4, 1/2 (6MM included). The grand total was $844.00. I got free shipping and a discount on the Pocket Mill Pro kit. Just today two of the MicroJig dovetail clamps came separately as part of the kit. I already had a bunch of the MicroJig dovetail clamps. So I agree that by ordering the kit I got short changed with the portable base. That is another $50.00 that I may purchase. So to get the entire capability of the Jessem Pocket Mill Pro you spend about 3/4 what the Domino costs but the Domino is bare bones and none of the accessories. That I would guess would be more like $2000-2500.00 for everything that the Domino can come with. They both cut loose tenons but most of what the Domino does I would never use. I did order some 6MM loose tenons from Amazon and have some 5MM, 8MM and 10MM on the way. I did not find 1/4 and 1/2 but I have not looked hard but I can make those. Without the loose tenons it is like a mechanical pencil without any lead. I have not used the Pocket Mill Pro yet but already like the idea. Like you said I am a hobbyist and speed is not of the essence. I dont want to work slow but I think the Pocket Mill Pro will work fine when you get it set up and what I dont know I cannot miss without the Domino. Festool is great stuff but way way way over priced for a hobbyist. As a Pro I could see the investment but not for me. I am not knocking Festool but I get more bang for my buck with other tools that are not Festool. The last item is another video suggested that the Jessem doweling jig can be used on the workstation. I emailed Jessem today to find out if that is true. Having a doweling option could be useful because having more capability is better. If it does work with the workstation I will order the Master Dowel Jig that would be another $237.00 as of April 17, 2023. If the dowel jig can attach that would be killer and pretty much all encompassing for me in my hobby workshop. Long story longer I have high hopes for the Jessem loose tenon system. The dowel jig would be gravy on top.
I work for a large national woodworking store. I am astounded at the amount of people (with minimal skills and too much money) that come in and equip themselves with that green and black brand of tools. They seem to have fallen under the "Festool Fog". I appreciate your honesty in this tool review.
There are gentlemen farmers ... and gentlemen wood workers. My experience with the latter (because I don't know any of the former) is they are guys (or gals) with the time and the money to do what the pros do, but their golf game often gets in the way. Some of them build some really beautiful stuff - just not much of it in a year's time.
As a user of the Festool stuff for about 10 years, I can assure you some of their tools are not worth the premium. But many are - including the domino, orbital sanders and their track saw.
Pretty sure the base patent is what covers the base mechanism. When that expires people will be able to replicate the original machine. Any further patents only protect the incremental improvements not the base mechanism, I think we can expect to see competitors come out with something soon
I’m one of your students in The Creator Course and now I see why you’re one of the instructors. Your channel is…well…no bullshit, kind of funny, woodworking. Enough said. Touché…
Sure, cheaper than a Domino but still a lot of money for something that *somewhat* replicates the same functionality, while being slower. You also can't ignore the additional cost of a drill, even if you likely already have one, or several.) To me, it really can't do anything I can't already achieve with a router using appropriate jigs. I've been wanting a Domino for a long time and have been waiting for a "domino killer" just as long ... still haven't seen one. But thanks for sharing the info and all that you do!
ha I'm not sure its fair to add the cost of a drill into this equation. I dont think anyone buying a machine for floating mortise and tenon is a non drill owner.
@@Lincolnstww Sure, I'd even go so far as saying anyone who owns a house probably owns a drill. But the cost of that drill isn't zero because it's already been purchased. My point was it's still a requirement with an associated cost and you're comparing a non-powered tool that needs power to function versus one that has the power built in. (Certainly, that built-in motor included with the Domino is responsible for part of the cost difference.) Something else to note is the Domino turns the cutter at router speeds (20k+ rpm) vs the 1500 ish of a drill, which is likely why you needed to start slow when making the cut. Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Festool fanboy ... I have zero dollars invested in their products. I'm just saying for me, I'd rather pay more for a quality tool that does the job, then save some money for a tool that does a poor imitation. But since I can hardly afford wood these days, guess I'll continue with the mortise and tenons that don't float. lol
I’m a home hobbyist, woodworker. I don’t have a domino or a doweling jig. I’ve learned to cut mortise and tenons. Actually very simple. But I understand that it’s very slow and tedious. I spend much time doing layouts. Which is absolutely most important when making mortise and tenon joints. I have some precision layout tools and a very high quality tenon saw and a quality set of chisels. I keep looking at doweling jigs. But I’m thinking that I’ll just continue my old ways. Very satisfying hand cutting joinery.
Great video. I’m literally brand new to woodworking. Im a ways off from implementing floating tenons in my work as I don’t even have a table saw or planer 😂. This is definitely on my list though as I’ll never be able to justify spending festool levels of money on tools
"You won't be disappointed with the versatility of this jig" is absolutely true! I own a JessEm Pocket Mill Pro and I love it! It is more precise than the Festool Domino, which I also own. Am I a professional woodworker? No. Woodworking is my avocation not my vocation. But, I like precision in my tools. My Festool is fast, but it also allows for more human error. The JessEm Pocket Mill Pro is precision on steroids. Does it take a few more seconds to set up? Yep. But the results are worth it. You will NOT be disappointed in the JessEm Pocket Mill Pro, but get the Work Station they offer because it makes things so much easier and faster. I love it!
I have a porter cable biscuit jointer ($250) Love it. A biscuit jointer is a quick, easy and efficient tool that costs 2/3 what this thing cost (check the link - $349) Put a mark on both pieces to be joined, line up your tool, pull the trigger and push. Hell, you don’t even need to clamp your work piece. Biscuits are very forgiving when it comes to lining up your work, loose at first, glue makes them expand in the slot for a great bond. not to mention the biscuits are readily available and inexpensive. This looks like a tool for people with too much money and need to unload some.
The layout alone would be reason enough to spend the money on the domino. Also, I like taking the took to the work more than the other way around. Nice tool and Jessem is awesome, but I'll stick with my festool.
I own a painting company. I have never regretted buying the right tool for the job, especially if it could save time or give better/consistent results. I barely have any woodworking experience and I would for sure buy the Festool over the Jessem. Quality tools will pay for themselves over and over again.
Festool Dominos are meant for 2 types of woodworkers, those that batch out lots of identical pieces where their time saved is money, and YT woodworking content creators, where their time saved is used to edit their YT videos. "Think about what you mostly build"...if more novice woodworkers followed this motto....we would all have more money to leave the house and enjoy other stuff....if only.
Not being sure I wanted to make floating tenons my main joinery system, I bought the router jig directly from China. Started using it yesterday. In. I figure I'll try a cheap version, not full featured, but good enough to see if I want to go further before spending the full $1200 or $1500 on the real Domino. Total cost was $100 for the jig, $20 for the Harbor Freight trim router (on sale, regular $30), and $7 for a 3 pack of Harbor Freight 1/4 inch upcut bits and off to the races. Does the cheap one work? Yes, absolutely. Does it work as well as a Domino with all the fancy attachments? No, I can already see that after only one afternoon playing with the jig. I have a long way to go with this jig to figure it out and such. For today, maybe it'll do, but I might just buy the Domino because it's so mature as a product. Do I think the Jessem jig would do the trick for me? Maybe, but by the time you get the full jig, clamping station, angle thingy and the rest of the kit, it's a touch over $500 US. Since that's approaching half the cost of an entry level Domino kit, and you get that fancy sustainer box. I'd give the nod to the Domino. Plus, I think I'd get frustrated at the complexity of the adjustments. Domino wins there. Perhaps if I hadn't just spent $130 on the knock off jig, I'd be willing to spend $500 on the Pocket MIll Pro, but for now, I'd go Domino if making another purchase. Excellent review! Thank you!
My wife and my daughters bought me the df500 for my 50th birthday and even I'm no pro I love it. But I think the pocketmill is an interessting alternative. At least we woodworker gain much from competition and alternative product. BTW: Like these cross channel support of various woodworking channels. Great work.
I always enjoy your unbiased review. It's refreshing to see people give the goods and bads by setting there brand association aside. I LOVE my milwaukee setup. But that doesn't make it the best. I feel the same with festtool. As someone who bought the $200 jessem doweling jig, I don't think it would save time or money with the price of the Domino's themselves. At least with the joints I do. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a domino. But $1200 is a hard price to swallow vs 5 - 10 more minutes of my time.
Since I recognized and view the content of pretty much every other youtuber that made a cameo in this video, I can't imagine how it is that I've not been exposed to you until now, but this is the 1st time I've ever seen anything from you. I must say with the utmost sincerity, this is one of, if not the absolute best real world, no nonsense product reviews that I've ever seen... Now to watch some of your other offerings and see if this specific video is more the exception, or the rule, for what to expect from you. Thanks much, and keep up the good work!
Home-shop woodworker here. I do have a JessEm router lift and it is a really nice tool. I also have a DowelMax (with all the accessories) that has incredible quality. Festool equipment is so heavily marked up that as a hobbiest, I won't buy their stuff on principle. The Domino does work quickly, which is important to commercial users where time is critical. But how long will that Domino last in a commercial setting? I suspect that Festool products are no better made than Makita or DeWalt or Bosch. But someone somewhere is raking off a lot of profit on sales. More power to them, you just are not getting any of my money.
Yeah, Festool does seem to have a somewhat heavy markup on most of their tools... I will admit they are probably good, but you pay a lot for those last "5% better", so unless you are using it every single day professionally, it really won't make any sense (and even then, those "5%"-better is debatable). And Festool is REALLY milking it on their Domino, probably because of the patent restriction. But on the bright side: Probably looks like just a few more years before other companies will be able to copy it. My guess is on Makita to be the first to do it, since they seem to already have other woodworking tools. (I use Makita, so I might be slightly biased).
Hello. Do you think I could adapt a trim router to the tip of this jig and use that instead of a much slower drill? Your opinion is all I am looking for. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
I bought a Domino 700 (only a hobby woodworker) only because I have noticed I get a very large amount of enjoyment just from working with quality tools. So now that's all I spring for. All that's been the case for about 3 years now. If I enjoy doing something more--than I do said thing more often. So I feel like it's a win win all around. I obviously still am trying to do old fashion mortise and tenon joints and hand cut dovetails just for fun. I'm still bad at them, but I AM still trying to get better because I DO find trying to improve my own skills fulfilling.
As woodworking relic (dinosaur) I can really appreciate your approach. I retired from woodworking many years ago as a professional. Now that I am retired retired (social security) I want to get back into it for fun. That last time it was fun was 49 years ago when I first started woodworking. Now, I can build jigs and understand their value, and now I am poor. So this tool is doable for me. Thank you.
I'm getting back into woodworking (just bought a SawStop) and have been debating on getting one of these two tools. This was a very useful review and has me still going in the direction of getting the Festool. Good work, I'm subscribing.
I work in a furniture and cabinet shop and am also a sicko who also does his job as a hobby. If you are a professional your best investment will be a CNC and/or a boring machine. Especially if you want to do any kind of production runs. Even a domino won't give you the precise repeatability you need for many identical pieces. As a hobbyist who might sometimes sell their work then get the tool that you can afford that makes you happy. At home I have tools that I almost never use, but just enjoy owning because they're aesthetically pleasing. I have tools that perform a common task that I despise because they annoy me for one reason or another. It's important to recognize whether you are doing this primarily to make money or for enjoyment. If it's the latter, then determine what you can spend, what you like, and what's going to bring you joy and relaxation. I feel good looking at the display cabinet I built with hand cut dovetails for a couple of moderately expensive tools that I almost never use. But they look good in my shop.
I love Jessum. They make great stuff. The festool is expensive. If you’re gonna spend $1200 and some more in parts, why not spend a bit more for the Panto Router. Do a video on that one. 👍
I have three other JessEm products, and you are right, their build quality is bar-none! I too agree that their instruction manuals are better used for lighting my woodstove in the morning. Quick question regarding the additional bit sizes, in what application would they be used? For instance, at some point I want to build a door. Thanks!
Heavy exterior doors are traditionally made with dowels. Still the strongest joint, unless you use mortise and tenon, but dowels are cheaper, faster, and just as good.
I tried an inexpensive doweling Jig. It was wildly inconsistent, slow and hard to set up. So, I bought the Dowelmax jig and it worked great, but still slow and required a little more consistency than my ADD would allow. I purchased the Domino, not because I needed it or had to have it, but it made my joinery better, faster and more enjoyable in the end. Not a professional. Fortunate to have the money to afford the Domino, but after watching two reviews of this Jessum tool, I am glad I have the Domino. I own several other Jessum tools and they are awesome, but this one appears to be for someone other than me. Lots of opportunities to mess up your layout with all the transferring marks, having to buy additional jigs and still slower than the Domino.
@03:55 Dat 3m sandpaper. Man, that stuff is amazing. I was doing some 120, 180, 240, 320 grit progression and man that disc just flies right through. For a large table tap (97" long, 46" wide, Walnut) i used 2 discs per grit and really didn't need to. I do what you did here, I put them in a stack or whatever and when I need to do a corner or something or I use the old, but still good discs. All about hand me downs and once they get used up then they are trashed. Also, cool jig. I can see this being handy, but not sure yet! I think once you get north of 500$, I just go for the Domino, if I needed one.
Awesome video. Curious about that marking gauge. You wouldn't happen to have a link for that, do you? That looked way easy to use. Thanks again for all of your great content.
So, let's see if I get the pitch here... The Festool Domino is a biscuit joiner 2.0 that costs $1200. It is very fast and accurate to use, and produces strong joints, but it cost more than my table saw and drill press combined. This Jessem outfit has come up with a rig that costs about $500 not including the required hand drill, it pretty much requires that wooden "workstation" that makes it into a benchtop tool, and it requires 200-300% more setup and fiddling time than the Domino. My router table cost about $200 at Lowe's including a router. It doesn't take much more setup than the Fessem contraption to cut mortises with, I'll admit a mortise in end grain or a miter would require a jig. It can also do a LOT of other things; it can cut dados, grooves, moldings, roundovers, chamfers, coves, tenons...take the router out of the table and it can cut templates, arcs/circles, dovetails, , high school bullies, or freehand engravings. A dowel jig cost about $30 not including the required drill, fits in the palm of your hand, and uses ordinary drill bits. ...look, I have a tiny shop, I don't own a biscuit joiner because I can't justify the space it takes up for what it does. The patents expire, Ryobi starts making $199 loose tenon joiners, I'm not buying one of those either.
I don’t own a domino but every time I have needed one, no alternative did the job as well as it can. I had one on loan from a friend and I wanted to change my name and social and escape with it. That’s how good it is. I have sworn never to buy an alternative as it will suck the same as the tools available to me already. That said though every woodworker, pro or hobbyist, has to learn for themselves at which point they invest in better tools. I want a new table saw because I have maxed out the capabilities of my current one. If I hadn’t grown and progressed through it, it would have been insane to justify a 2k table saw. We all get to that point at different times. Buy a domino at your own time when you can justify it. That’s my 2 cents.
Entertaining and well done as usual. At 80, I have been at this for many years. I have had the biscuit jointers and dowel jigs. That is why I have owned a Domino since 2010. Perhaps not for everyone but it is for me. At my age, that extra 8-10 minutes makes a difference.😁
I'm more of a woodworking hobbyist and use the time spent in my garage workshop as a thinly veiled excuse to get out of the house. However I do find it fascinating to see what tools the "other half" uses in making fine furniture. In the meantime, this cold one is for you.
second comment---nothing to do with festool/jessem equipment----your videos are right near (at) the top of quality/information/delivery/personal appeal. you stay positive while telling it like it really is----thanx rick
Click this link for 10% off and free shipping through the end of March. Enter promo code POCKETMILL at checkout jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system?sca_ref=2740138.IiVKmBmtQ5
I have to say - it is refreshing to see all of these content creators supporting each other as opposed to it being some sort of big competition.
The phrase "community" is overused these days. But it's truly a community behind the scenes. We are all constantly talking, sharing info and will drop what we are doing to help when asked. I had no idea it was like this going in but its a pleasant surprise.
I was truly hoping for a classic Lincoln St. dry wit. Something like, “pshhh, community? I’m trying to blow all these suckers out of the algorithm”
@@Lincolnstww Did all the folks shown produce video segments just for your video?
@@farmcat3198 They were clips from posted videos. *LOVED* the hip-thrust one. That was such a funny video.
@@farmcat3198 yes they all created those for the video
I'm a cabinetmaker here in the UK and own both this Domino and its bigger brother the 700.
I was impressed with the pocketmill and can see it's appeal to the hobbyist/keen amateur woodworker as it looks very well made and offers a decent saving over the Festool machine. However, the Domino's most important feature in my opinion is the time it saves, which for the professional woodworker matters a lot, both my Domino's have paid back their addmitaly high purchase price several times over in time saved, but I do think the pocketmill is the best Domino alternative I've seen so far.
BTW, I'm new to this channel and was very impressed so you have a new subscriber....thanks for an informative and nicely presented video.
its*
the key here is that you're working in your shop 40+ hours a week where as a hobbyist might only put in 20 hours a month. it takes a LONG time to earn back the cost difference in time saved for a tool you only use a couple times a year and I say that as a software engineer who bills 3 digits an hour. the fact that the pocketmill prevents the angle drift that happens if you lift when pushing the mill against the wood is a nice bonus too for people who rarely use the tool. I normally add a new tool when the project justifies it. it would have to be a big project to justify adding a $1000 tool that is a low frequency use item but a couple hundred dollars might be recouped in one project.
For people leaning towards the Domino - remember that the $800 you save could go towards a 4x4 panel of Baltic birch.
As a downpayment, right?
Sad but true
@@mr.e8432 I just bought a 5x5 18mm baltic sheet for $158, is that low? It was only BB/BB but I was happy.
yep a 4" x 4" piece!
On layaway? Lol
I subscribe to quite a few tool review and maker channels. I really really really (3x!) like your videos. Seriously. Funny. Insightful. Honest. Non annoying voice. Relevant. I’m a huge fan. Thank you for taking the time to do it.
Thank you - much appreciated!
X2
Dude. Very informative, concise, organized, and helpful. Your level-headed opinion and mild humor makes for a very educational walkthrough of how to think about tool buying. Thanks!
I appreciate that!
Hey Jessem, if you read these comments WELL DONE. I admire a company that is willing to have a fair and unbiased review and it makes me more likely to consider the product. And thank you for making this video! I get pretty sick of seeing sponsored content cosplaying as just casual use *cough* *cough* rhymes with shmanto shmouter *cough* so this is awesome.
You rock. I bought my Domino about 15 years ago. Yes, I use it relatively rarely as a home hobbyist, but it makes me better at be the craft with very little skill on my part. I'm an Android guy, but this time I'll take the Apple-like Festool implementation. Except in rare cases, it just works.
I’d just like to make one comment. A looser slot is not bad because if the tenon is too tight you’re not getting a good amount of room for the glue. Good glue, good joint. Great video , well done young grasshopper
I'm a pretty serious hobbyist woodworker and I want to compliment you that your videos are OUTSTANDING. Great thought & insight. I am subscribing NOW as what you do in your reviews is heads and shoulders above what most people do.
I appreciate your content and your format of video styles. No fluff, no word vomit. Just pure content.
Thank you for noticing that. I try to get to the point
The full length cutting flutes are why the Jessem slots are wider at the top compared to the Festool’s cutter having a reduced diameter, non-cutting shank. As the Jessem’s tool is cutting the deepest passes, it’s also cutting the top. This will get worse as the tip wears and the higher edges remain fresh. Still a compelling budget option, of course; just thought I’d share some machinist perspective on why the tops of the slots were wider on one and not the other 🤘🏼
Generally speaking, drills and I expect these bits are ground with a slight taper (towards the blunt end). This is done to prevent rubbing or binding of the drill in the hole. Therefore it seems unlikely that the hole is wider for the reason you suggest.
@@ZenMinus that isn’t how endmills work. I’ll bet you money
@@1pcfred yep, and because the endmill has such long cutting edges, that “slop” has much more time to enlarge the top of the hole.
@@1pcfred it’s cool you own a milling machine. So do I. We’d probably have fun sharing stories if we weren’t here missing the point I originally made.
IMHO the question has never been which machine you need. If you are a professional the Festool is the machine for you while it is totally over the top for an amateur. The real question is if you can do all the things the Festool can with this jig and yes you can.
And I doubt that the router bit will cut the beginning wider while cutting the deeper parts because this would mean lot of vibrations in the router bit. More likely the it isn't as tightly guided when it starts cutting.
I'm an old carpenter transitioning into more fancy woodworking projects, so I do this professionally. When it comes to buying tools, I've mostly regretted buying a cheaper work around tool. I don't own a domino, mostly because I haven't had the need for one...yet. But if a job came up that the domino would save me lots of hours and aggravation, I would buy one quicker than you can say "domino". Woodworkers did just fine without one for decades but the domino does change the playing field as most innovative tools do. To stay competitive, sometimes you just gotta buy the tool that'll get you there. There's definitely a domino in my future when the right job comes up for me to justify the purchase.
I have to agree. Buy once cry once is rarely wrong if you will use a tool more than three times. Time is money, for sure. But aggravation over wasted money on a subpar tool is also a factor. At least it is for me. 😂
What’s the use case that would make you stop and say, “okay, right now is when the domino is going to stand out and do something faster/better/cheaper than anything else?” I’m seriously mystified what that scenario is, and I’m a cabinet maker, also doors and furniture. I’ve used the domino but in my experience, it’s clunky, awkward, and doesn’t do anything that other tools do better. It doesn’t seem to do anything notable other than drill a weird sized hole. To be fair, the same looks to me to be true of the tool in this video.
My usual process is to grab one of the jigs that I’ve made for drilling pairs of dowels. Occasionally I make a new one to customize the dowel size or distance apart. The domino concept locks me into fewer options, for no time saving I can see and obviously the price is absurd.
Is there something these tools do that justifies having them?
Thanks for sharing the information about the jessem and the comparison and contrast to the domino. Always good to know the options.
@Thomas Westgard "Is there something these tools do that justifies having them?"
Yes, they save you time
@@G0F15H That has not been my experience. Can you be more specific how they save you time?
Thanks for this review! I struggle with spending so much on a single use tool given the volume of work I do. Really appreciate the no nonsense reviews!
Frankly speaking, I'd probably end up with both in the long run. The Domino is for anyone who produces furniture and built-ins. Every minute matters when that's your situation. However, for that situation to matter, you need to be a Pro or Semi-pro in the first place. If you kick round in the shop from time to time with barely a carcass or sanding cutting boards, you don't need to drop $1200 or more for a domino. Also, the best thing about Festool is keeping dust low within your workspace.
Loose Tenon Joinery has many ways to get the job done. Reading is fundamental. You have a few solid options depending on your skillset, how comfortable you are in the shop, and your need for time/access to resources. A router can do everything the domino can do with the help of jigs. However, that takes you being comfortable with using it and sacrificing time. The Pocket Mill needs setup time like Batman. However, it looks simple to use and costs like half the price of a domino. So, I can see how either can be your personal solution.
I still want a domino, personally. It's likely my next major purchase.
For a 25 year old trying to figure out the best way to spend my money on tools, I can’t thank you enough for this review. Was about to pull the trigger on a dowel jig when I saw JessEm released the pocket mill, and have been waiting for someone I “knew” (aka UA-camr I watched) to review it. Great job.
Thank you, I’m a hobbyist but do take a few commissions. I do mostly hand tool work but the power tools I use regularly are all top of the line . I was about to buy a domino basically to have one I use a router or beadlock for loose tenons and really don’t have a problem with either. I was ready to pull the trigger on a domino a couple months back when I saw Jess em advertising for presale . Since then I’ve been on the fence. Your no nonsense video plus I trust your opinion made the difference. Thank you and I’ll be ordering the Jess em soon.
Glad to see you are continuing to make content and how upfront you are; please keep at it!
Thank you! Will do
Your videos are so organized and I really enjoy watching them! You have grown so much in the time I’ve been watching! You have helped me grow as well. It’s really overwhelming as a beginner woodworker. So much to learn and I really appreciate your honest straight forward thoughts.
These tools are cool and it was a great review. I am a little old school and if you have a vice and a router with a fence, then loose mortise and tenon is entirely possible without limits.
EVERYONE PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. This is how you comment on a video while having a different idea/belief. Its objective, it's to the point and doesn't try to gatekeep for new woodworkers. Well done, Roby, well done!
@@Lincolnstww Except he used the wrong spelling of Vise. Although it did make his comment more humorous.
@@jeremycoyle2782 maybe he meant to write "vice"... :) could be the secret to good mortises... drinking, smoking, too much fried food... worth a try :)
The big advantage of the Domino for the hobbyist is its simplicity. I might go two months w/o needing it, but when I do I don't need a refresher on how it works. Additionally, there are so few accessories that I need to store and setup. I can't imagine being able to say that about the Pocketmill. That said, Jon's right about Domino's weaknesses. We all have to weigh the pros and cons. Even after this excellent review I would still buy a Domino.
This! I’m purely a hobbyist and whenever I can get shop time the most important thing to me is efficiency. Domino is expensive as hell but it’s so easy to use. I can go months without using it but when I come back there’s nothing to think about. You just do.
I sold my Domino because it was so inaccurate that I spent more time fixing my joints than it was worth. I own several Festool products and really the only one worth a crap is the track saw.
I this is such a great and useful review. I feel like we are entering a golden age of woodworking UA-cam where everyone is synergistically working together to make the entire community better. So cool to be along for the ride.
This "ride" will soon be over.
You make a valid point. It’s refreshing to realize this now that you mentioned it, with how messed up our society has become in every other way.
@@l.k.1011 what do u mean?
Excellent video as usual. I’ve had the Domino for 10 years as a hobbyist and full time woodworker. I’ve never regretted buying it. The Jessem unit looks like a good tool but it requires marking locations, using Allen wrenches and a lot of extra setup. Buying the extra jigs, keeping track of them, transporting them, and still being much slower than a Domino.
I’d really recommend someone comparing both systems to use pocket screws or screws and plugs until you can afford the Domino. It really opens new doors in woodworking because you can make strong, hidden joinery very quickly.
The pocketmill looks really well engineered, but for me based in Germany it is simply not cheap enough to be an alternative. In fact, it wouldn't even be cheaper after all, considering the Domino is a machine on its own. Street price for the DF 500 is less than 900€, and to pay 540 USD (which is about 500€ today) + international shipping + import duties and taxes means I would probably save less than 200€. Which would be the cost of a decent quality cordless drill, conincidentally.
Excellent! . . . And I own a Domino XL, teach woodworking, and have over 40yrs experience as a pro cabinetmaker and finish carpenter. You covered all the bases quickly and succinctly. Thank you!
My concern is future availability of the drill/end mill cutting tool...what happens when Jessem decides to stop manufacturing the jig and the specialty end mills?
If you're inclined to use something like the Jess-Em, I'd advise building a jig similar to the one they're selling and and use it with a plunge router topside. I built such a jig years ago and it works great for more cuts than you can anticipate. But I don't happen to hate using a router, especially in a totally controlled setup.
That being said, I also have a Domino which is necessary for large, heavy members, or, of course, on site.
First, I am not "anti-Domino". I have used one to create several pieces of furniture. I also know how to create saw/chisel mortise/tenons. I understand the perceived strength advantage of Dominos, but in the real world, I have never had a Beadlock or dowel joint fail. Also, cost-to-build vs. price is built into my pieces, so saving 10, 20 or 30 minutes per piece is negligible. My experience is that I needed to clamp the Domino in place because it is hard to accurately hold onto everytime, which virtually negates any time savings. So, I will continue to build perfectly fine furniture without a Domino and avoid the frenzy all together. I will wait for further reviews of the Jessem jig before considering one. Thanks for a first rate video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
As I research and do cost/benefit analysis, I've looked at the Beadlock system and like it. Do you own? How would you rate it?
@@m.d.d.3051 It can make really strong joints due to the area of the Beadlock tenons (bigger than Dominos). I only use the larger size, since I use dowels for smaller joints. It was confusing at first, but once I sat down for 30 minutes (or so) with the jig and a cup of coffee, it all made sense. You can also use it as a guide for chisels for traditional mortises. I like it. Maybe I'm dense, but I've never understood the furor over Dominos.
@@richpeggyfranks490 You aren't dense, because I never understood it, either. The Domino strikes me as being as finicky as a biscuit joiner would be - and I don't like biscuit joiners either. I've been looking for a loose tenon set-up that won't break the bank, and appreciate Rockler's innovation. I appreciate your input on the Beadlock system. It's the one I've been leaning towards.
@@m.d.d.3051 I bought the Beadlock system and the thing I learned using it is that 1) loose tenons are very handy 2) A Domino is in my future. The main issue I had with it is that it's a very precise tenon using a jig that's not precise. Any issues with drilling the holes perfectly makes the tenon not fit in the mortise. I had a lot of issues with the drill bit walking in to the 'A' holes while trying to drill the 'B' holes and pulling the very tightly clamped jig sideways and sometimes out of perpendicular. Replacing the bit that comes with it with a brad bit might help. The alignment viewer would also be better with two lines to put your mark between rather than a single line that covers your mark on the wood. Alignment of the tenons is precise enough, that being off the thickness of the view finding line can leave you with uneven joints. Also, having used it a few times now, the guide bushings are starting to get sloppy from wear. Again, creating precision issues.
Even as a hobby woodworker, I also found the time required to use the Beadlock jig to be too much. My time working on projects is limited, so while it's not 'time is money' as would be for a professional, it's still the difference between finishing a batch of tenons on one Saturday or two.
You know what I really enjoy about your videos? Honesty!
I appreciate that!
Yeah, but it is honesty heavily sprinkled with humor and sarcasm…the best kind! I always have to laugh when people get so tightly wrapped around the axle and think their opinion is the only one that counts. If you’re a professional, it will be super easy to justify the expense of any top end tool. For the hobbyist it’s another story…unless they have a bunch of money burning a hole in their pocket. In the end…to each their own, and with emphasis…leave them alone!
@@bartwensink6445 Agreed!
@@bartwensink6445 🤣 "tightly wound around the axle" ...great line, love it!
As a guy who does metal working as well as woodworking I really appreciate the robust build of the jessum jig. That build will last longer than me. It'll be handed down to loved ones long after that plastic festool will be in the landfill. Thanks for the video!
95% is metal which you can recycle. Rest is plastics which you can recycle (at least here In Finland).
I'm used to larger, corded routers ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQ5_mgwq6PcudJvAH25t-I4D-3cTPz4z so this was a different experience for me. Basically, this is an incredibly sweet machine, fits well in the hand, etc. It has slightly less power than I'm used to, but that's understandable. Maneuvering freehand takes some practice. These days, it's especially nice to be able to avoid power cords. This is above the level of a hobbyist but below a pro level.
I'm a professional woodworker here in Atlanta Georgia. I've used both and like how fast you can things done. He failed to mention that you need the vacuum for the domino which is over 1000 USD. I'll use them if someone else supplies them. At my home shop I'll continue to cut tenon and mortise by hand. Love the content. Keep up the great work
I use a shop vac with my Domino. You just need an hose adapter, I got one from Rockler.
Love the innovation! I have a domino but very happy to see quality options at very reasonable prices. Their saw guides are a work of art!
I bought the Jessem dowel jig many years ago and can’t speak highly enough of it’s quality. While it doesn’t do miters, it’s another great option for making accurate strong joints. I’m sure the quality of this tool is no different.
I know you mentioned not liking the router jigs, but what do you think about the Mike Taylor/ 3x3 custom trim router jig for loose tenons from a couple of years back?? It accomplishes most of what this does while also keeping the router blade from being exposed like in the ones you showed.
We had a domino in our cabinet shop and we never used it. Two dowels was always sufficient and easier. I never understood the point of having one, and definitely not at $1200
I already own a domino. And I absolutely love it. Wish i would have gotten it sooner. However… there were many years I couldn’t afford it. I had a “Festool Fund” that I was saving up for one for a long time. If I had the opportunity to buy something like this back then… I would have jumped on it. Considering I already have my Domino… this tool isn’t for me. But what a great option for those out there that can’t afford it.
And I just have to add I love your humor. I laughed out loud when you said “go watch another video”. Cracked me up.
The real domino killer is whenever the domino patent expires.
I really appreciate the very accessible way you walk through the comparison between these tools! Well done!
As a domino owner, I have to admit I'd probably have gone with the Pocketmill had it been available when I was looking for such a tool. It is the first tool I've seen that could realistically be called a substitute for the domino.
Would you have bought the workstation at the same time if you did purchase it?
@@a9ball1 I think so. Still under the cost of a domino and provides a good amount of flexibility and usefulness.
@@CoreyShockey i think it is way to clumpy for what it does. Looks like just another domino copy that works fine, but isnt as versatile as the domino. I think the only way we get a cheaper domino is when this patent ends
I inherited various Stanley jigs and tools made during the 1940s from an uncle. They are not fancy, they are not Festool, they just work every time when I need them for the job I need done. That is the definition of the best tool there is. There are no plastic or nylon parts on any of them. The instructions Stanley provided are clear and concise. The same goes for the old Dewalt, Rockwell, and Delta tools and machinery.
That said, I am not getting rid of my Makita, Ryobi, Hitachi, Milwaukee, various other off brand tools, or those I made on the fly just so I can buy Festool.
Good video as always from this man.
Great channel and great video! I love how you get ahead of vindictive comments, swiftly explain why they're wrong, and tack on an extra "I don't care" for good measure! Keep up the great videos!
thanks for noticing! ;)
people think your job is making videos but they still don't know your skill is how well you can write, incredible my man, just incred
Great video. Your work is always so thorough, well written, great pace, and to the point with a dash of humor. I am not in the market for either tool at this time, so I wasn't looking to support any pre bias I had. It seemed, price aside, you made it look like it was actually better in some situations. No mention of Jessem choice on the supporting work station to go with the microjig clamp system. I wondered what the relationship they had with microjig. I see future creators making videos on "make your own workstation for the Jessem system" coming soon to a youtube near you because buying the whole kit and caboodle is ? 700 ? which is half the cost of the domino.
Interesting, and thank you for a fine comparison. Two things to point out, though: 1. Smaller pieces with the Domino is no problem - just clamp them down as you do with the Jessem, and, if applicable, use an equally thick piece to secure balance. Piece of cake and I have never felt this was a problem with my Domino over all the years I have had it. 2. Yes, the Domino is more expensive. Me, I save up for delicious tools by waiting another year to buy a car, and then also never buy a new car. A matter of taste, but I love working with good tools that do not frustrate me. I would obiously have to try the JessEm personally, but from what I saw in this video, I feel I would actually rather use a drill and a fine chisel than buying the JessEm in the first place, with all the hassle of creating just one hole. I think JessEm have made smarter things. But that's me.
I got into woodworking a couple years ago. Started watching some youtube vids on how to do everything. Thought the "traditional" joint stuff was really, really, cool, but never for the life of me could I figure out why somebody would go through all that trouble. Hours on a single joint or a few minutes for something that will still be strong enough to do its job? I'll take the few minutes any day. And as far as the argument goes for it "looking better", in over 30 years I never noticed the joints in woodworking until I started learning to do it myself. The only people that care about woodworking joints are other woodworkers.
I think it depends on what you're looking to get from your craft. A friend of mine hand cuts traditional joinery because he finds it relaxing and fulfilling. My interest is in the finished piece, so I don't mind using modern techniques to speed up that process.
It doesn't take hours. Yes every time I bring out the domino, I make money. But cutting "live" M+T for things like period reproductions isn't hours of extra time.
If it takes you hours to do a proper mortise and tenon then maybe the problem is you.
@@whitec21 I can definitely see that. And like I said, some of those crazy joints are really, really cool looking. But sadly I just never noticed them on anything until I got into the craft myself, which really made me question their actual importance.
I'd probably enjoy it if I could do it lol. I'll stick with the easier ones for now.
Probably the best tool review I've ever seen. Well done!
Great video! I like your unbiased and honest approach to tool reviews. I do think that any tool that requires a lot of setting up is inevitably more prone to mistakes. Especially where you need to change the setup within the same project.
I'm still amazed that so many people are so binary at the mere mention of festool. I'm lucky enough to have both dominos but I didn't start with them nor are they the only joinery system I use. Kreg pocket holes and the dowelmax are just two of the different systems I have. The dowelmax I think is a better option at this price point but I'd love to see a real head to head between dowelmax and JessEm to know if that is actually true.
The inventor of the dowelmax has some great videos online and even claims his system is the strongest. JessEm are a great company too and they do make quality tools. The great thing, maybe the best thing about woodworking is there's almost always another way to achieve the same end goal.
Happy making all.
Famtastic, honest, straightforward review. I appreciate your candor!
I use dowels with a Task dowel alignment tool and those little pointy things make an impression on the opposing board. If I spent 100 bucks for that set-up I would be surprised.
I ordered the Jessem Pocket Mill Pro kit and all of the bits, 5MM, 8MM, 10MM, 1/4, 1/2 (6MM included). The grand total was $844.00. I got free shipping and a discount on the Pocket Mill Pro kit. Just today two of the MicroJig dovetail clamps came separately as part of the kit. I already had a bunch of the MicroJig dovetail clamps. So I agree that by ordering the kit I got short changed with the portable base. That is another $50.00 that I may purchase. So to get the entire capability of the Jessem Pocket Mill Pro you spend about 3/4 what the Domino costs but the Domino is bare bones and none of the accessories. That I would guess would be more like $2000-2500.00 for everything that the Domino can come with. They both cut loose tenons but most of what the Domino does I would never use. I did order some 6MM loose tenons from Amazon and have some 5MM, 8MM and 10MM on the way. I did not find 1/4 and 1/2 but I have not looked hard but I can make those. Without the loose tenons it is like a mechanical pencil without any lead. I have not used the Pocket Mill Pro yet but already like the idea. Like you said I am a hobbyist and speed is not of the essence. I dont want to work slow but I think the Pocket Mill Pro will work fine when you get it set up and what I dont know I cannot miss without the Domino. Festool is great stuff but way way way over priced for a hobbyist. As a Pro I could see the investment but not for me. I am not knocking Festool but I get more bang for my buck with other tools that are not Festool. The last item is another video suggested that the Jessem doweling jig can be used on the workstation. I emailed Jessem today to find out if that is true. Having a doweling option could be useful because having more capability is better. If it does work with the workstation I will order the Master Dowel Jig that would be another $237.00 as of April 17, 2023. If the dowel jig can attach that would be killer and pretty much all encompassing for me in my hobby workshop. Long story longer I have high hopes for the Jessem loose tenon system. The dowel jig would be gravy on top.
I own the domino and don’t regret it. If this Jessem jig was out at the time I would have had to consider it. Great review.
I work for a large national woodworking store. I am astounded at the amount of people (with minimal skills and too much money) that come in and equip themselves with that green and black brand of tools. They seem to have fallen under the "Festool Fog". I appreciate your honesty in this tool review.
Thank you much appreciated. Ill be the first to admit I don't need anything festool that I currently have in my shop. But they are nice to have
Did you ask those people if they have “minimal experience and too much money”??? 😂
There are gentlemen farmers ... and gentlemen wood workers. My experience with the latter (because I don't know any of the former) is they are guys (or gals) with the time and the money to do what the pros do, but their golf game often gets in the way. Some of them build some really beautiful stuff - just not much of it in a year's time.
As a user of the Festool stuff for about 10 years, I can assure you some of their tools are not worth the premium. But many are - including the domino, orbital sanders and their track saw.
Excellent, detailed review. No holds barred honesty.
Thank you.
Pretty sure the base patent is what covers the base mechanism. When that expires people will be able to replicate the original machine. Any further patents only protect the incremental improvements not the base mechanism, I think we can expect to see competitors come out with something soon
I’m one of your students in The Creator Course and now I see why you’re one of the instructors. Your channel is…well…no bullshit, kind of funny, woodworking. Enough said. Touché…
Sure, cheaper than a Domino but still a lot of money for something that *somewhat* replicates the same functionality, while being slower. You also can't ignore the additional cost of a drill, even if you likely already have one, or several.) To me, it really can't do anything I can't already achieve with a router using appropriate jigs. I've been wanting a Domino for a long time and have been waiting for a "domino killer" just as long ... still haven't seen one. But thanks for sharing the info and all that you do!
ha I'm not sure its fair to add the cost of a drill into this equation. I dont think anyone buying a machine for floating mortise and tenon is a non drill owner.
@@Lincolnstww Sure, I'd even go so far as saying anyone who owns a house probably owns a drill. But the cost of that drill isn't zero because it's already been purchased. My point was it's still a requirement with an associated cost and you're comparing a non-powered tool that needs power to function versus one that has the power built in. (Certainly, that built-in motor included with the Domino is responsible for part of the cost difference.) Something else to note is the Domino turns the cutter at router speeds (20k+ rpm) vs the 1500 ish of a drill, which is likely why you needed to start slow when making the cut.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not a Festool fanboy ... I have zero dollars invested in their products. I'm just saying for me, I'd rather pay more for a quality tool that does the job, then save some money for a tool that does a poor imitation. But since I can hardly afford wood these days, guess I'll continue with the mortise and tenons that don't float. lol
I’m a home hobbyist, woodworker. I don’t have a domino or a doweling jig. I’ve learned to cut mortise and tenons. Actually very simple. But I understand that it’s very slow and tedious. I spend much time doing layouts. Which is absolutely most important when making mortise and tenon joints. I have some precision layout tools and a very high quality tenon saw and a quality set of chisels. I keep looking at doweling jigs. But I’m thinking that I’ll just continue my old ways. Very satisfying hand cutting joinery.
Great video. I’m literally brand new to woodworking. Im a ways off from implementing floating tenons in my work as I don’t even have a table saw or planer 😂. This is definitely on my list though as I’ll never be able to justify spending festool levels of money on tools
Ha definitely get the planer and table saw first
Get a good table saw, like a DeWalt for $600.
"You won't be disappointed with the versatility of this jig" is absolutely true! I own a JessEm Pocket Mill Pro and I love it! It is more precise than the Festool Domino, which I also own. Am I a professional woodworker? No. Woodworking is my avocation not my vocation. But, I like precision in my tools. My Festool is fast, but it also allows for more human error. The JessEm Pocket Mill Pro is precision on steroids. Does it take a few more seconds to set up? Yep. But the results are worth it. You will NOT be disappointed in the JessEm Pocket Mill Pro, but get the Work Station they offer because it makes things so much easier and faster. I love it!
Always enjoy your videos and recommendations considering pro vs. amateur needs. Thanks for honest thoughts, insights, and review.
Glad you like them!
I feel like the festool is it..just super easy, super fast no extra jigs required..spend the money and be done with it IMO..
I would vote for the Dowelmax over that Jessem tool but the Festool over either.
I have a porter cable biscuit jointer ($250) Love it. A biscuit jointer is a quick, easy and efficient tool that costs 2/3 what this thing cost (check the link - $349) Put a mark on both pieces to be joined, line up your tool, pull the trigger and push. Hell, you don’t even need to clamp your work piece. Biscuits are very forgiving when it comes to lining up your work, loose at first, glue makes them expand in the slot for a great bond. not to mention the biscuits are readily available and inexpensive. This looks like a tool for people with too much money and need to unload some.
The layout alone would be reason enough to spend the money on the domino. Also, I like taking the took to the work more than the other way around. Nice tool and Jessem is awesome, but I'll stick with my festool.
I own a painting company. I have never regretted buying the right tool for the job, especially if it could save time or give better/consistent results.
I barely have any woodworking experience and I would for sure buy the Festool over the Jessem. Quality tools will pay for themselves over and over again.
Festool Dominos are meant for 2 types of woodworkers, those that batch out lots of identical pieces where their time saved is money, and YT woodworking content creators, where their time saved is used to edit their YT videos. "Think about what you mostly build"...if more novice woodworkers followed this motto....we would all have more money to leave the house and enjoy other stuff....if only.
Not being sure I wanted to make floating tenons my main joinery system, I bought the router jig directly from China. Started using it yesterday. In. I figure I'll try a cheap version, not full featured, but good enough to see if I want to go further before spending the full $1200 or $1500 on the real Domino. Total cost was $100 for the jig, $20 for the Harbor Freight trim router (on sale, regular $30), and $7 for a 3 pack of Harbor Freight 1/4 inch upcut bits and off to the races.
Does the cheap one work? Yes, absolutely. Does it work as well as a Domino with all the fancy attachments? No, I can already see that after only one afternoon playing with the jig. I have a long way to go with this jig to figure it out and such. For today, maybe it'll do, but I might just buy the Domino because it's so mature as a product.
Do I think the Jessem jig would do the trick for me? Maybe, but by the time you get the full jig, clamping station, angle thingy and the rest of the kit, it's a touch over $500 US. Since that's approaching half the cost of an entry level Domino kit, and you get that fancy sustainer box. I'd give the nod to the Domino.
Plus, I think I'd get frustrated at the complexity of the adjustments. Domino wins there. Perhaps if I hadn't just spent $130 on the knock off jig, I'd be willing to spend $500 on the Pocket MIll Pro, but for now, I'd go Domino if making another purchase.
Excellent review! Thank you!
The pocket jig seems very fiddly.
I think anything compared to a domino will seem fiddly. Compared to a dowelling jig - its easier to use in my opinion.
My wife and my daughters bought me the df500 for my 50th birthday and even I'm no pro I love it. But I think the pocketmill is an interessting alternative. At least we woodworker gain much from competition and alternative product.
BTW: Like these cross channel support of various woodworking channels. Great work.
I always enjoy your unbiased review. It's refreshing to see people give the goods and bads by setting there brand association aside. I LOVE my milwaukee setup. But that doesn't make it the best. I feel the same with festtool.
As someone who bought the $200 jessem doweling jig, I don't think it would save time or money with the price of the Domino's themselves. At least with the joints I do. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE a domino. But $1200 is a hard price to swallow vs 5 - 10 more minutes of my time.
Since I recognized and view the content of pretty much every other youtuber that made a cameo in this video, I can't imagine how it is that I've not been exposed to you until now, but this is the 1st time I've ever seen anything from you.
I must say with the utmost sincerity, this is one of, if not the absolute best real world, no nonsense product reviews that I've ever seen... Now to watch some of your other offerings and see if this specific video is more the exception, or the rule, for what to expect from you.
Thanks much, and keep up the good work!
Thank you Jason! Much appreciated. Hopefully it’s more of the same
Home-shop woodworker here. I do have a JessEm router lift and it is a really nice tool. I also have a DowelMax (with all the accessories) that has incredible quality. Festool equipment is so heavily marked up that as a hobbiest, I won't buy their stuff on principle. The Domino does work quickly, which is important to commercial users where time is critical. But how long will that Domino last in a commercial setting? I suspect that Festool products are no better made than Makita or DeWalt or Bosch. But someone somewhere is raking off a lot of profit on sales. More power to them, you just are not getting any of my money.
Yeah, Festool does seem to have a somewhat heavy markup on most of their tools... I will admit they are probably good, but you pay a lot for those last "5% better", so unless you are using it every single day professionally, it really won't make any sense (and even then, those "5%"-better is debatable).
And Festool is REALLY milking it on their Domino, probably because of the patent restriction.
But on the bright side: Probably looks like just a few more years before other companies will be able to copy it. My guess is on Makita to be the first to do it, since they seem to already have other woodworking tools. (I use Makita, so I might be slightly biased).
Hello. Do you think I could adapt a trim router to the tip of this jig and use that instead of a much slower drill?
Your opinion is all I am looking for. Thanks.
Keep up the good work.
I bought a Domino 700 (only a hobby woodworker) only because I have noticed I get a very large amount of enjoyment just from working with quality tools.
So now that's all I spring for. All that's been the case for about 3 years now.
If I enjoy doing something more--than I do said thing more often. So I feel like it's a win win all around.
I obviously still am trying to do old fashion mortise and tenon joints and hand cut dovetails just for fun. I'm still bad at them, but I AM still trying to get better because I DO find trying to improve my own skills fulfilling.
I love how you deal with the haters and all the "I know betters". Thanks for sharing your content.
As woodworking relic (dinosaur) I can really appreciate your approach. I retired from woodworking many years ago as a professional. Now that I am retired retired (social security) I want to get back into it for fun. That last time it was fun was 49 years ago when I first started woodworking. Now, I can build jigs and understand their value, and now I am poor. So this tool is doable for me. Thank you.
I'm getting back into woodworking (just bought a SawStop) and have been debating on getting one of these two tools. This was a very useful review and has me still going in the direction of getting the Festool. Good work, I'm subscribing.
I work in a furniture and cabinet shop and am also a sicko who also does his job as a hobby. If you are a professional your best investment will be a CNC and/or a boring machine. Especially if you want to do any kind of production runs. Even a domino won't give you the precise repeatability you need for many identical pieces. As a hobbyist who might sometimes sell their work then get the tool that you can afford that makes you happy.
At home I have tools that I almost never use, but just enjoy owning because they're aesthetically pleasing. I have tools that perform a common task that I despise because they annoy me for one reason or another. It's important to recognize whether you are doing this primarily to make money or for enjoyment.
If it's the latter, then determine what you can spend, what you like, and what's going to bring you joy and relaxation. I feel good looking at the display cabinet I built with hand cut dovetails for a couple of moderately expensive tools that I almost never use. But they look good in my shop.
Thank you for making the review unbiased!!! i just dont want biased reviews as its the same as watching targeted ads basically
God bless your blatant and unabashed honesty... and thanks for the review. The PocketMill is something I'm considering.
I love Jessum. They make great stuff. The festool is expensive. If you’re gonna spend $1200 and some more in parts, why not spend a bit more for the Panto Router. Do a video on that one. 👍
I have three other JessEm products, and you are right, their build quality is bar-none! I too agree that their instruction manuals are better used for lighting my woodstove in the morning. Quick question regarding the additional bit sizes, in what application would they be used? For instance, at some point I want to build a door. Thanks!
Heavy exterior doors are traditionally made with dowels. Still the strongest joint, unless you use mortise and tenon, but dowels are cheaper, faster, and just as good.
Damn I wish you had the time to make more videos. Your content is top notch and I absolutely love your dry sense of humour.
I tried an inexpensive doweling Jig. It was wildly inconsistent, slow and hard to set up. So, I bought the Dowelmax jig and it worked great, but still slow and required a little more consistency than my ADD would allow. I purchased the Domino, not because I needed it or had to have it, but it made my joinery better, faster and more enjoyable in the end. Not a professional. Fortunate to have the money to afford the Domino, but after watching two reviews of this Jessum tool, I am glad I have the Domino. I own several other Jessum tools and they are awesome, but this one appears to be for someone other than me. Lots of opportunities to mess up your layout with all the transferring marks, having to buy additional jigs and still slower than the Domino.
@03:55 Dat 3m sandpaper. Man, that stuff is amazing. I was doing some 120, 180, 240, 320 grit progression and man that disc just flies right through. For a large table tap (97" long, 46" wide, Walnut) i used 2 discs per grit and really didn't need to. I do what you did here, I put them in a stack or whatever and when I need to do a corner or something or I use the old, but still good discs. All about hand me downs and once they get used up then they are trashed.
Also, cool jig. I can see this being handy, but not sure yet! I think once you get north of 500$, I just go for the Domino, if I needed one.
Good work. Appreciate all of the time you put into these no-nonsense videos.
Love your channel, you are genuine, sincere, honest but above all its thought -through 👌👏
Awesome video. Curious about that marking gauge. You wouldn't happen to have a link for that, do you? That looked way easy to use. Thanks again for all of your great content.
Is it this you're looking for? INCRA Tiny "T" Rule (TinyTR03)
@@EditioCastigata that was it. Looks like they have a newer larger one too.
So, let's see if I get the pitch here...
The Festool Domino is a biscuit joiner 2.0 that costs $1200. It is very fast and accurate to use, and produces strong joints, but it cost more than my table saw and drill press combined.
This Jessem outfit has come up with a rig that costs about $500 not including the required hand drill, it pretty much requires that wooden "workstation" that makes it into a benchtop tool, and it requires 200-300% more setup and fiddling time than the Domino.
My router table cost about $200 at Lowe's including a router. It doesn't take much more setup than the Fessem contraption to cut mortises with, I'll admit a mortise in end grain or a miter would require a jig. It can also do a LOT of other things; it can cut dados, grooves, moldings, roundovers, chamfers, coves, tenons...take the router out of the table and it can cut templates, arcs/circles, dovetails, , high school bullies, or freehand engravings.
A dowel jig cost about $30 not including the required drill, fits in the palm of your hand, and uses ordinary drill bits.
...look, I have a tiny shop, I don't own a biscuit joiner because I can't justify the space it takes up for what it does. The patents expire, Ryobi starts making $199 loose tenon joiners, I'm not buying one of those either.
You are doing great work, keep it going. Love that you review products honestly. Thank you for that.
I appreciate you looking out for us weekend warriors with small budgets.
you got it!
A "pyramid do-over" ROFL...that was the best line in the whole video :)
my favorite too
I appreciate your fantastic and truthful review of the JessEm PocketMill, Ethan, coming from down under in Australia!
I don’t own a domino but every time I have needed one, no alternative did the job as well as it can. I had one on loan from a friend and I wanted to change my name and social and escape with it. That’s how good it is. I have sworn never to buy an alternative as it will suck the same as the tools available to me already. That said though every woodworker, pro or hobbyist, has to learn for themselves at which point they invest in better tools. I want a new table saw because I have maxed out the capabilities of my current one. If I hadn’t grown and progressed through it, it would have been insane to justify a 2k table saw. We all get to that point at different times. Buy a domino at your own time when you can justify it. That’s my 2 cents.
Entertaining and well done as usual.
At 80, I have been at this for many years. I have had the biscuit jointers and dowel jigs. That is why I have owned a Domino since 2010. Perhaps not for everyone but it is for me. At my age, that extra 8-10 minutes makes a difference.😁
as someone that dont use it very much my domino was a huge expense but every time i do use it i love it and i have never regretted getting it
I'm more of a woodworking hobbyist and use the time spent in my garage workshop as a thinly veiled excuse to get out of the house. However I do find it fascinating to see what tools the "other half" uses in making fine furniture. In the meantime, this cold one is for you.
SUPER helpful. I'm looking for an option to a domino because of the price... thanks for the thoroughness and honest feedback!
second comment---nothing to do with festool/jessem equipment----your videos are right near (at) the top of quality/information/delivery/personal appeal. you stay positive while telling it like it really is----thanx rick