The TRUTH about Dual/Multiple Subs.. What They Didn't Tell You
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2022
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It's Best to have 2 Subwoofers as the neighbours get a more even spread of Bass
Absolutely
You don't want uncontrolled peaks and dips in your neighbors hate!
@@Shift4g
Exactly, neighbours need good quality Bass
Lol, no doubt
Before programs like REW, most of us thought that if you had two subs you risked cancellation. So I ran with 1 sub for years. I did notice that much was not that great. So I downloaded REW and checked my sub frequencies. I notice a dip at the all important freq of 70hz. I sold my sub and got two new matching subs.
I ran REW and it was a big improvement. There are no more dips in the freq response. I did measure the room with 3 subs but the third was not needed and I worried about my neighbors. Watching movies I can feel and hear the difference. Music is also punchier. But I also have to be careful that I don't overwhelm the neighbors with all of this newly found bass!
You tube needs to just allow only your videos on. I was contemplating if I need 2 subs in my basement and I immediately thought "Let me see what Kpace guy says" then I noticed that I wasn't subscribed to your channel. I thought for sure I was. I am now. You are the only trusted voice in home theater. I told you that the other day when I was questioning atmos setup and 7.1 Thanks my man! Always spot on.
I appreciate it my friend
Thanks for good content and good luck with your subs’ integration!
Thank you my friend!!
I’m using 4 subwoofers 2 svs 12 and 2 8’ subs in the rear of the room.. it is absolutely work to balance the bass in a room… keep doing what you’re doing
I have 4 SVS 1000. I used REW measurements & a MiniDsp to get them phase/time aligned. I also made a house curve. It took some time but made a HUGE difference. Night & day. Even bass response over 5 seats.
How hard was it to learn rew and get all 4 subs aligned?
@@blanchbacker it wasn't too difficult; just takes some time learning. There are some good walkthrough videos out there.
that's nice man. did you use MSO? i think mso gets the seats even but I don't think it time aligns them. In fact it uses varying time/phase to achieve flatness across the seats.
@@ColocasiaCorm I have multiple saved presets that I use depending upon situations. I did use MSO for the preset when I have a large group watching. I didn't use it for my MLP preset.
@@doublet147 what reciever r u using?
Excellent tutorial about multiple subs. My hats off to you sir, you really did a wonderful job of explaining how this all works. You have a knack for speaking and I found it clearer to follow than the “professional” big name companies or people who try to explain this whole thing. I use dual subs for my music only system so no time delay or bass management for me. Needless to say I’m going through a mini nightmare as far as cancellations are concerned. Wish me luck…I’m old and these things are heavy.
I appreciate it!
Agreed, I am running four subs tied together with a mini DSP. This is probably the best I’ve heard Multisubs explained online. Well done 👍
I have a two channel system in my music room with dual SVS sb 1000 . Love the even bass response at every point in the room. I actually run them along the front wall inside of my mains and the soundstage is awesome. Keep up the great work KPACE.
I appreciate it
What speakers are you running? I have same subs and thinking of simplifying my setup to the dual sb1000's and some good bookshelf speakers (instead of my deftech towers)
@@GoodVibesOnly1914i use KLJ Kendall's
Thank you for this video just got a older smaller matching sub asw 500 from bowers and Wilkins. Can’t wait
To see the differences
Running 2 subs on my system. First is an older Energy ESW-8 along with a newly purchased Klipsch R-12SWi. Glad you have mismatch subs as I'm thinking about replacing the Energy with another Klipsch. Also glad you don't have all of them upfront as you have a sweet triangle of bass happening in your room.
OMG! You're absolutely right! Phasing is not something I had even heard of before watching this video. In fact, when I asked a few "experts" about hooking up more than one sub, they all told me, the danger is that they may cancel each other out--which is why I decided to go with only one sub. Not being an audiophile or an expert, I just didn't have the expertise to question their advice. Now, thanks to you, I know I can have more than one sub and why it makes sense to do so and how it should be done. I understand I have to make sure I have the right placement and that the subs are working together rather than against each other. Now my only problem is finding someone with the know how to make that happen. That all being said, thank you so much for clarifying things. Excellent video! I've subscribed!
I appreciate it. Welcome to the crew!
Great info in this video.
I run 6 powered 12" ported subs in a 2 channel system in my lounge room.
All subs are from the one company and the same series.
I am building a home theatre system over time.
All subs are off the floor, stands are between 12" and 66" high.
Bass response is incredible even at low volumes.
Keep up the great videos and info, cheers.
I appreciate it!
@@Kpaceguy Hey! Which is the best sub? Single 18 or dual 15(in a single enclosure)? From Rhythmik Audio?
@@josealfredfernandes dual
@@Kpaceguy understood, more cone surface area..
Their flagship vs SVS PB16 Ultra?
@@josealfredfernandes rythmik flagship is better than any current svs.
Great video! I love the Zeos vibes from this video. It really works!
Thank ya. Every now and then I do a "Vlog" style video
I'm running dual Emotiva RS13s & dual Hsu ULS MK2s in my family room. I'm also running dual Rythmik FV18s & dual FV15HPs in my basement. I have other subs throughout my home but I am a fan of duals minimally for that even, null-free bass!
Maybe you should be selling subs
I have two 12inch front firing klipsch subs they are between my front left and right and four and a half apart and sound brillant i did try putting one of them behind me but didnt have the same impact and because of my room size .It was putting my seating off square.I agree with you needing at least two subs to get a more balanced sound ✔
I like the 4 SVS 1000 double T, but I did something slightly different that I'm sure someone will disagree with and say I'm canceling bass, but many will testify to my bass being the best they've heard. I have 2 Niles Stagefront Pro 15" (incredible subs that never get recognized), then 2 rear 15" down-firing Klipsch KSW 300 (25 yr old subs, but I had the amps beefed up 2 yrs ago, new woofers), and a center back 5th 12" down-firing Klipsch Sub 12 (best 12" down-firing sub ever). Having the Niles front firing in front and all down-firing in back. It has created the most perfect bass response throughout my 28 x 16 theater room. I've gotten 2 friends to try this and now they swear by it. I'm wanting to know is if anyone else has tried a similar type of setup? I get people who tell me I'm canceling out bass, and I ask them if they've tried it and none of them have. So, I would like to hear from those who "KNOW" or have questions. That acoustic audio 15" sub you reviewed Kpaceguy has the down-firing port, but you could also try the down-firing 15" brother or sister. (Are subs masculine or feminine? Gender neutral?)
You explain things brilliantly.. either that or our experiences are a coincidence.
I have dual (stereo) Rel t5i 8-inch down firing subwoofers in each corner of the front wall and considering 70% of my listening habits are 2-channel, I find there speed and agility of the little subs are just absolutely perfect for my music but when it comes to the other 30% (movies) they just haven't got that wallop that I'm looking for, but now after watching this video, I think it's about time I even up both of the listening experiences and get myself a third sub but this time a 12-in HT sub. 🥳 (Rel of course)
I appreciate that
I think also depends what type of movies you watch, if you watch more drama vocal based movies, without so much special effects than 1 Subwoofer be okay but if you watch more action packed movies with a lot of special effects than 2 Subwoofers be better
Great video as always, can you do a video sometime about setting up surround sound 5.1+ with a space that has couches as yours are in an L shape. Or how you setup your room.
ua-cam.com/video/6liB1u5b2rk/v-deo.html
This video explains it a bit
5 subs ... 2 music oriented in front and 3 HT oriented around the room ... Bliss!
I'm running 4, SVS SB 2000 subs in my home theater setup. I have an Ultra center and six Ultra towers around the box sitting on platforms. The room size is like 20 x 22 feet.
I have a Episode 12 and a 8" Klipsch sub and I love what they do for me. Sealed and ported Collab 😂
I went from one svs sb3000 to 2. At first it wasn't great, i was very disappointed. Friend of mine came by and used rew. All i can say is WOW, once setup properly it took it to a new level. That was 3 years ago. I just added 2 more hopefully get setup soon.
Keep up the good work young brother!
Thank you my friend
Hey man, great vid. Just wondering if you could help me. In my setup I just added two more subwoofers to the rear of my room and although it sounds louder, I lose bass at lower frequency like 30hz and lower.
ua-cam.com/video/lv-rd15bJKU/v-deo.html
Phase aligning is all well and good ( and highly important too !) but in reality it can be near impossible to achieve... distance between the subs and room volume and shape all come into play here
Funny the 'You just woke up and you're energetic and (not word for word)...'sit like *this* and...' More likely the 'my back hurts' scenario, lol. *I will try each later!*
I appreciate this video and can add in one or two deets in that I have a mix of subs not even worth mentioning of different sizes (6.5 and 10 - WOW!!!) and are connected exactly in parallel per the 'lowest-end-but-adequate' system's amp's rating and I love to see them vibe so I HAD them at right angles to me and the smaller one is now aimed right into my recliner (with $$$, I'd have a sub for each seating item!) and I feel the bass through it and the other is room-filling-enough for now. I agree with different 'aims' and u can one day try stacking them. Here's a thought for like-minded speaker nuts - oscillating subs. To Hell with fans! Later---🤣🤩
Lots of great info! Should you keep it simple(ish) and get the exact same sub to double, or get different sizes? I didn’t know if it was worth it setting crossovers and getting different sized subs.
People will tell you don't mix subs because it can be a nightmare to get them to play nicely with each other. I would say at least don't mix brands. Sizes you may get away with but brands are a different story
@@Kpaceguy ah okay that makes sense. At least that way they’d match a little more closely.
I would definitely keeping them all ported or all sealed. Or you really need to know what your doing.
Your 100% right! 😎👍
What would kick go down more 1 12in dual sub or just 1 18in subwoofer?
The dual are ported and the 18 is sealed
Its close. Id go 2 12s the surface area is pretty close to a single 18
@@Kpaceguy thanks bro! Your the best! 😎👍
I almost return it! Lol 😂
I had one svssubit helped a bit but when i added a second sub wooo a whole new ball game night and day improvement not only of bass but imaging sound stage all improved substantially. Got them dialed in in less then an hour. Get two and you will never look back.
I have one sub but have a 2 sub option. I've always thought more than 1 sub didn't make sense and was a waste of time & money, until now! I thought people just wanted more bass volume. I have plenty with one sub at only 60% volume, but I also have those dead areas you mentioned, and I now know how multiple subs can fix that. Thanks for the great explanation. Best I've heard on UA-cam!!
Thank you buddy!
So I’m a music mixer but only care about one listening position. The sub sounds the best in the right front wall. If I put a second in the front left side will it resolve my room mode of 40 to 50hz peak in the corners?
It wont fix the peak but it'll even out all the other frequencies around it
I'm running 3. One behind recliner..mlp, 1 behind couch and another in front right corner
*Good brother, what about in a 2 channel monitoring system for recording and mastering. I am all for 2 subs however do you have any definitive insight on the narrative of Recording, referencing, Mastering Studios etc?*
Doesn't matter as much. You'll always be in the same spot. Usually pretty close to the sub so you want to make sure it's sealed and small if you can about accuracy
@@Kpaceguy I always lifted the subs up to MIX position and sit them behind the L/R monitors but pointed towards the center at each other and just played with distance from "behind near field to the wall"; till they sound right. the reason why is, to hear the speaker before the room. Whereas majority of folk stick the sub against the wall UNDER the console and the sub throws to the back of the room. The top boxes have faster transients plus they are facing front to head, so in order to catch the sub up, youhave to turn the sub up louder - adding more to the room, thus decreasing room efficiently- dramatically!. When you lift the boxes up to listening position, the speaker direct is right there and you hear them in alignment with the top boxes and at a much lower volume, thus needing less room treatment and yielding over all far better accuracy.
I borrowed the technique from my time mixing and setting up arena concerts, cause many times we fly subs, with the mains, for the same reason.
Well explained....
Thanks for watching
I'm running a single sub in a 10X17 ft. carpeted room and it's plenty. If your front speakers produce ample bass then it negates the need for an additional sub in a small to medium sized room. IMO, you can use multiple subs in large odd shaped rooms where their desperately needed. Lol!
Nice explanation, bruh.
Appreciate it
Btw AFAIK you get volume boost only when subs are close to each other - very close like on top of each other 4x - approx 6db, close enough will be 3db boost. You need to do subwoofer crawl - put sub in your position and play LF and then check places around your room where you can hear it most - those places are best for Sub placement. Bad sub placement can even cancel each other out and create voids.
they should boost wherever the distances between them are acoustically small compared to the wavelength. right? Which seems more likely in the lower-lower frequencies. 50Hz wave is around 22ft. I know my room is smaller than that corner to corner.
@@ColocasiaCorm depends on distance between them farther they are lower the frequency that will get boost.
I have realllly been wanting to get a second sub. My room is such a weird shape it ruins bass
I have built in powered subs in my LCR. Should I still add external subs?
Yes
Excellent video which I am looking for ..I have 3 sub 1 l svs pb12 dual driver , 1 jbl 210s and 1 wholesale
I have a 4 ohm Subwoofer that needs to be an 8 ohm subwoofer. Is there a way to wire it into my 1996 Sony 5.1 surround sound pre-amplifier? Can I use two 4 ohm subwoofers, wired together to make it an 8 ohm subwoofer? And if so, how do I wire it into the Sony?
If it's dual voice coil you can make it 8 ohms
Di you have a video on setting multiple subwoofers in phase?
Yes. Called what is speaker phase
@@Kpaceguy Thank you!
I am running two Paradigm 12 inch powred subs for my home theatre/ music sound system
Sonds awesome with two powered subs than using one powerd sub
I was wandering if it maters with using one sub for watching movies ?
Why would you only want one?
When I listen to music I use two powered subs
Could I use two powered subs or one powered sub to watch movies ? What is the difference between using one powered sub or two powered subs for watching thetre movies ?
Even and greater bass response
Can i mix different size of subs with separate box placing them in a diffrent position. Is it ok? Thanks
If you're equipped to make them sound good with some sort of calibration. It's not ideal though
Thanks for the reply. I ask this because I have a two sets of subs, a pair of 18in and a pair of 12in. In a bit larger event I used the 18in. While in a smaller event I used the 12in for easy carry. Now I was thinking, what if I will combined them in a much more larger event. Like I would place the 18in sub on the left and the right sides of the stage, while the 12in sub in the middle of the stage. driving them with separate amplifier so i could mix them separately in the crossover. The 12in sub would give the punchy crisp sound, while the 18in would deliver the more bassy big round sound.
What do you think about that? Is it ok? Is it allowable or acceptable or used in practiced in the laws of sound wave configuration?
Thanks.
PS.... I'm not a sound engineer that's why I'm asking this for proper sound wave theory advise.😀
@@Kpaceguy
Have two subs .. but only use the one set for your position at the time.. with subs youre always hearing the rooms reaction to the different wave lengths.. having two will null bass as much as it boosts it because of comb filtering
I think it makes a diff if this is for movies and TV or for listening to music, I still believe that for music, get speakers that have good bass and forget about the sub.
I've read some studies that say go either 1, 2, or 4... not 3, and not more than 4.
Dude...your throw pillow room volume is in excess of the cu' of another sub, or two...?
Please explain how you get away with all those subs, any subs for that matter in an apartment, mine complain with my 2 towers and 2 bookshelfs going lol
Lol pick the right time of the day for sure. And don't Do it too often.
This apartment reminds me that in every young mans life, he will reach the point where he will own either a car or a stereo system that will be worth more than the property he lives in!😂
No longer the case
I've produced music for the last 30 years, example, if I decide to put the bass guitar on the Left Channel and the drums on the right you will never know it with one sub. Two subs equal stereo bass and bass is Stereo it is not non-directional unless you're wearing earplugs
I've been really into the idea of dual subs, and recently my subwoofer broke. I have JBL 308s and dad's old home theater sub from 2005, the Kenwood SW301 (100w, 10''), plugged into my usb interface headphone out to work simultaneously. It was good years, but it broke (again). I can't fix it no more, and I really need bass. I've been thinking about a studio sub, so I can plug the monitors directly to it with all balanced wires, use the built-in crossover, do it as God intended. Can't do that with home theater subwoofer - it only does have the wire connections. I have two options: two 8'' subs now, or only one 10'' sub now, and second sub later (too little shmoney atm). I only ever used my Kenwood at 40% volume, bc it really kicks ass, and it's only 100w. Studio subs are usually 100w for 8'' and 150+ for 10''. I think two Eris Sub8's would be really enough..but the product pricing tells me that 8's is meh and 10' is yeah. Should I just go 8's now, or go all-in, and start with one 10?
Dual 10s
How do you hook up tri or quad subwoofers the only recievers I’ve seen only go to .2. . And nice subwoofers 👌🔊
Y splitters
@@Kpaceguy I thought that could do something to the signal
@@loviatar666 a y splitter splits the signal into 2
@@Kpaceguy okay, thanks so much, what subs should I get I’m thinking SVS PB 1000’s what do you think?
@@loviatar666 I mean it all depends your room size and what kind of performance you're looking for
Hi, I appreciate the video but You missed an Important question like should the subs be ; 1 matching , 2 different subs entirely 3 can they be different sizes ,,you addressed none of these questions ? I'm curious...Thx
The beat thing to do is to have the same exact sub for all subs. The next best thing to do is to make sure they are at least all ported or all sealed but not a mixture.
I figured as much ..just needed confirmation ...I appreciate it@@Kpaceguy
Nice video bud. Good to see another fan of frankensubs; no need to shell out for three identical subs when there are deals on similarly-performing gear out on FB and Offerup and stuff. Plus DIY is fun :)
Would've been good to point out how you also determined the driver doesn't always need to face your seating to get the best response.
I just bought my 4th subwoofer ,man now I can really feel the heat
Hey that was me in the black truck 😆 Cap City hey I think we made ythe red light lol
Had hit put it in sport mode real quick lol
@Kpaceguy 😆 sweet Lexus for sure ' clean ✨️
why am i only running 1 sub?, because i just bought my svs pb3000 today! i am in canada, and i didn't want to wait until i had $6000 to buy 2. lol
Fair enough
Great content. I think you are making the wrong argument for multiple subs at least high end subs such as ML Balanced force 212 or any other high end subs. Making a second purchase of 4k plus on subs like that because I want to sit back is insane, now making the purchase because I want everyone in the room to have a sweet spot for low ends is a better argument.
bro that intro warn a guy lmfao i had my shit so loud
🤣🤣
How do I go 3 subs if I only have 2 outlet's on My receiver I don't get how I hook up more than two help
Use an rca splitter or subwoofers that have a passthough feature
How do i telegram bro im not that savvy
It's spam. Ignore it.
Adding additional subwoofers to the room will help to even out any nulls. One thing to note here, when it comes to movies, it really boils down to source material. What I mean is LFE from different movies, for example: Fury or Overlord, both have great LFE, now put on that new Infinite movie that just came out, LFE is meh 😒.
2 'homemade' JL 10w6's.
No. The number 1 reason is to achieve a flat response.
I said I only need bass in my seat. But there are nulls. 2nd sub handles the nulls and evens things out. That's the best reason.
Flat response? No that comes with calibration. You have a better chance to achieve it with more than 1 sub
Zero subs ,:( shitty apartment lol, I've invested in a variety of headphones. Aint the Sameeee though lol
If only quantity ensured quality. Anybody got a null and a room mode 😂
Gets expensive, this game
I got 5 subs!
And 2 hoogies
His neighbors hate him.
Heads up: there is a scammer spamming “You win a giveaway!”, please report this person!!!
Yes report as much as you can. I try to as much as I can
1, you know why
Do your apartment neighbors hate you? Lol
Nope they didn't even realize I had all this
I'm a professional I used two subs both of them are above my monitor speakers they're phase aligned therein specially-made hundred-year-old redwood solid as f***Stands that the speakers are in too; the air pressure from the subs which would normally obliterate your ears are just enough away and I'm having extremely great results; the most important one being do you really trust the sub to actually interpret a stereo sound and put it into an unphased reproduction?! No you don't and that's why even with relatively cheap subs you can maintain phase coherency for the left and right channel subs and I think it's about time that we start making music with that in mind or at least I do
I was going to add this anyways but I know it's out of place because I'm a professional doing the Lo-Fi after I got a divorce and I gave everything in my house to my kids and my ex-wife including my instruments and all my money so I'm building Frankenstein systems because I'm a f******genius
I will give you the fact that most people don't have good hardwood enclosures and also most people don't have the benefit of having worked with great f****** audio equipment so I do not suggest what I'm doing to anybody but the most professional of mfs
After listening to everything that I just wrote I made you think twice didn't I
By-the-way coast Contra
No lol it was too long and most of it was just patting your own back.