Why We Typically Recommend a Stereo Pair or Dual Subwoofers for Home Theater and 2 Channel Systems
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- Опубліковано 3 бер 2022
- Learn more about REL Acoustics at rel.net/
The text below is a transcription of the video.
We have sold a huge number of subwoofers in the last few years as stereo pairs and customers these days are often just coming in and sort of demanding stereo pairs, but they don't exactly know why. So let's sort of demythologize what stereo pairs are about, why it's a good idea, and also how you can start in many cases with a single and add one to wind up with a stereo pair down the road.
0:30
What stereo pairs do is really interesting on a technical basis what they can do is really smooth out the evenness of response throughout the room. So when you have two sources that are making low bass, they tend to create peaks and valleys, but if you place them properly, you can smooth things out.
Now, the real reason, the sonic reason especially for two channel that you want to do stereo pairs is, is it allows each side of the room, so your speakers are actually operating in asymmetry whether, you know it or not. There are no even rooms on the planet. I'm reasonably convinced. I've probably worked in 1500 rooms.
1:00
Some of them very expensive. None of them are symmetrical, meaning that the right speaker and, the left speaker are actually seeing completely different effects. When you set up your speakers, whether you know you're doing it, or you accidentally stumbled into it, that's what you wind up dealing with. You somehow over the span of a month or two or fiddling with it figuring out how to get your two speakers to work in a room where this half of the room is very different than this half of the room.
1:30
When you go to do a single subwoofer, you don't have that benefit. What stereo pairs allow you to do is get this subwoofer perfectly locked up to that speaker. That subwoofer perfectly locked up to that and when you do that, the coolest thing on earth happens. The stereo image, which most people's stereo image if these are the two speakers. They tend to have a kind of a U shaped soundstage. The lead singer is right here. No problem. He sounds great. The drum kits back here, but it starts to get a little murkier. Things like floor toms kind of go bump as opposed to a real snap, you can hear it hit and it pops.
2:00
These things all exists between the two speakers and back, the further back you get the darker it gets in effect within the recording. When you properly set up a pair, you get the outer two thirds of the sound stage. You literally open this up and people can't believe it because in many cases they've been using these speakers and one of those subwoofers for two and three years. They know what their system sounds like and when you get those things opened up and you get those outer two thirds to work it's kind of shocking.
2:30
It's troubling at a lot of different levels and then you start to relax and go, my gosh, things are exactly where they should be. I can hear the clarity in the foreground. Here's the saxophone. You could hear you know, the bell of the saxophone rotating around its spotlit mic. Things are layered exactly where they should be and you just hear so much more intimacy and clarity and depth into the music. So that's the why. I want to stress this. You do not have to start, unless less you own balanced differential mono blocks, and if you don't know what those are, don't worry about it because you don't own them.
3:00
Balanced differential amplifiers is significantly different than a normal amp and those require stereo pairs right from the beginning. Some very strange things can happen if you try and take two completely different grounded amplifiers in their own chassis and connect them together.
Everybody else. You can start with a single there's nothing wrong with it. You'll get huge amounts of enjoyment out of something like these little T/5x's and run it and enjoy it for a year. Find out what it sounds like. Then add on the second one. Yeah, it'll take you 10 minutes to reconnect, but add on the second one. Retune each one, individually one sub at a time.
3:30
Undo the, this one, come back over and do this one. Get it perfectly, made it to its mate, and then put them together. Do a little fine tuning. You'll just be shocked at the amount of clarity and improvement you get out of the entire system. Remember, we're not trying to get more bass. We're really trying to define clearer space and that's really the beauty of stereo. Several offers. - Навчання та стиль
Ok, ok. I just ordered the second T5x 2 weeks after buying the first one. These are just so much fun, can't wait. Greetings from Boxford, MA , thank you.
Perfect explanation, thank you John! I hope to own my own Rel subwoofer(s) soon!
AWESOME video. Simple and right on spot. Thank you
You're very welcome, and thank you for watching! If anything comes up or if you have any questions about REL subwoofers then feel free to let us know and we will be happy to assist.
After watching many of John’s videos, I finally pulled the triggered on a pair of T/5X and couldn’t be happier. They sound incredible. Due to my living room arrangement, I could only place them on each side of the couch but was still able to get them to sound as if they are a part of my speakers (B&W 707 S2). I’m literally sitting between the two subs and still got to pair them so well with the B&Ws that their bass appears to come from the B&Ws and not the subs. I connected the subs using the high level connection and also the .1 LFE for movies, which I should mention they do a fantastic job for movies as well. I had to turn the LFE level almost all the way down after my wife almost jumped off the couch while watching a movie. 😅
Thank you for reaching out, and we are very glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of your T/5x subwoofers! If anything comes up or you have any questions about your RELs then feel free to let us know and we will be happy to assist.
Can you tell me how to connect two rel t5x subwoofers correctly to the hegel h190 amplifier!? It has only four terminals! What should I connect and where??? I can't find anything!
I just bought two delivered tomorrow 😊
Great vid.
I’ve been enjoying my single T5x for a year and my second one will be here on Monday. Woohoo!!! 😊
How is it? 😊
@@marko-182, absolutely incredible
@@brentcollins9727 If I may ask how big your room is? Im inbetween one t7x or two t5x and I have aroud 25 m2
I have 2 Rel subwoofers in my home theater. And indeed they are all set differently. There is no other way, because my home cinema is obviously not a mirror image or semi-semimetric. But it sounds great. It took quite a while to get it optimal, but if you take the time, then it sounds really good. And the subwoofers are really a must and very beautiful and well made. Thank you for it. Your subwoofers are truly among the top products. We enjoy it immensely. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end subwoofers. Peace and love.
✌🏾👍🏾😉and ☕️
I am also interested in a dual sub bass system, I can watch and read so much about audio, but I only trust my ears what they are hearing. Maybe I should drop by to you because I was in Valkenburg last week😜. Really happy with my T/9X upgrade after my q150e!
@@TheMartinvd1981
Next time you're in Valkenburg... 10 kilometers from me... Let me know. You are most welcome...👍🏾
@@JDG1971 thx! Maybe I will drop by when I am around. Groetjes uit Hoofddorp.
Thank you for your response, and we are glad to hear that you are enjoying the performance of your REL subwoofers! If anything comes up or you have any questions then feel free to reach out and we will be happy to assist.
Why do so many video productions insist on background music? It's annoying and distracting and usually really shitty, techno noise anyway. Otherwise, very nice information. I've been running 2 subs an now know why the left and right soundstage opened up so much. it was really strange at first and I toed in the main speakers a bit because it felt weird to have sound coming from, essentially, the bookcase and walls. But there it is, the mystery is solved. i'll adjust my listening with that understanding.
Please tell me how to connect two rel subwoofers to a two-channel amplifier???
@@user-wd6lg4qo4j You run an extra pair of speaker wires from you amp to the speaker-level inputs on the subwoofers. It's the best way because you get the best phase, level, timing and sound. The signal that the subwoofer gets is only a small fraction of goes to the main speakers. The load of the subwoofer crossover is easy to drive.
Hi John, thanks for your explanation on a pair of stereo subwoofers, I myself own a pair of tzero's and a pair of t5x's and I'm thoroughly impressed by their perfomance, especially since they have such a small footprint! I have those t5x's for about a year now and even after setting them up in different places at my room to trial and error the best possible solution and sonic pressure inside my room I still encoutered some problems between 60-40 hz... Last week I decided to pair up my tzero's in my living room setup together with my t5x's, the t5x's running of high level right down from the speakers terminals and the tzero's running lowl level and set them up on the other side of the room with the phase adjusted to 180, and to my wonders that setup is working beautifully and fills in all the missing dips and do cancel out some peaks! But now it got me wondering, is there a possibility that the t5x's are to small for my room and speakers and do bigger subs make it easier to fill out those nulls and cancel out those peaks?
Thank you for reaching out, and for choosing REL Acoustics subwoofers for your home audio system. Choosing the ideal subwoofer for your room and system can help to achieve adequate pressurization in the room, though peaks and dips in the bass response are typically a result of the acoustics of the room rather than the choice of equipment. Using more than one subwoofer helps to smooth out peaks or dips in the bass response, though adding acoustic treatment to the room (diffusion panels, bass traps, etc.) can also help to tame acoustic issues in a room.
If you have any additional questions about setting up your REL subwoofers in your room then feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
Hi John... I really enjoy your videos... keep up the great work... a question... Do down firing subwoofers work on carpeted floors?
Why not? I wouldn't be concerned with any bass being absorbed if that's what your concern is.
You can build a concrete wall a foot thick and likely still have powerful bass on the other side with some of these subs.
I'm trying to mitigate bass freq and soundproof a room and the level of effort, mass of material and absorption techniques required to absorb bass or low frequency energy is absurd. I doubt it will even "see" your carpet in any meaningful way.
Thank you for reaching out. In our experience, having carpeted floors will not impact or hinder the performance of our down-firing subwoofer models. If you have any additional questions then feel free to reach out and we will be happy to assist.
Hi John,
So what is the best option for my system? A pair of tx5 in stead of one tx7 or tx9?
The room is about 22 square meters, the system is an avr cambridge audio with four standspeakers and a center channel.
Thank you for your help.
Thank you for reaching out. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net with a brief description of your room and system and we will be happy to assist with providing a subwoofer pairing recommendation.
When fine tuning the right channel /right speaker does it make sense to just turn the balance off for the left side so it is easier to hear?
When tuning the right channel subwoofer in a stereo pair it is best to either disconnect or power off the left channels subwoofer, so that it does not produce any output, though you can leave the left channel main loudspeaker playing normally. Shifting the balance for the main loudspeakers away from the left channel will change the way that the right channel main loudspeaker performs, which will result in the subwoofer's tuning no longer being accurate once you adjust the balance back to regular stereo output.
Hi John! For dual subs, do you recommend fine tuning the left and right channels separately? Specifically, should I only plug in the left speaker/sub combo and do room measurements then repeat for the right speaker/sub combo? Also, is corner placement best for both subs or nearer (inside or outside) to the speakers? Thanks!
Thank you for reaching out. When tuning stereo pairs of subwoofers, we do find that the process is made easier by tuning each subwoofer individually to start. Then once each subwoofer is sounding good and is blending well on it's own you can connect both and make final adjustments as needed to their Level controls.
Corner placement can work well for stereo pairs, though improved performance can be achieved by bringing the subwoofers out into the room and placing them just next to the corresponding main speaker channel. This will help to provide a more seamless blend between the subwoofers and the corresponding main loudspeaker, and since you will be using two subwoofers they will be less reliant on corner proximity to reinforce their output.
We hope that this helps, but if you have any additional questions then feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
@@RELAcoustics Thank you! When you bring the subs into the room, does it matter if the subs are placed between the speakers or outside the speakers?
@@RELAcoustics Just found the answer on your website! (it may work best to place the subwoofers in close proximity to the main speakers, just behind and to the outside of main speakers)
Hi REL, question for you. I currently am running a pair of KEF R11’s and paired them with a corner loaded T9i. It gets more than loud enough, even for modern electronic music, but I’m able to very easily locate where the bass is coming from and I don’t really like the sensation. Is that because the T9i isn’t fast enough for my speakers and need a S/812? Is it because it’s corner loaded? Is it likely not set up properly? Or do I just need two of them to balance out the sound?
Thank you for reaching out, and for choosing REL Acoustics subwoofers for your home audio system. There are a number of possible reasons for the output of your T/9x subwoofers being localized, including their placement and tuning. When you have a chance, feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to discuss tuning and placement options to reduce this localization effect.
You put it in the corner you get bass boost but it will be more easily localized - change position simply
Do you ever recommend tying into the Center channel for home theatre use?
Thank you for reaching out. Having a dedicated subwoofer connected High Level to your center channel speaker can provide a noticeable improvement in performance to your home theater system, especially in terms of improving the realism and intelligibility of dialogue and narration. For more information, here is a link to our video about connecting a dedicated center channel subwoofer: ua-cam.com/video/A7fA_LqH9FY/v-deo.html
Hi John,
I m actually with a T7x (and it is pretty good) and i will add one very soon to expand the soundstage, do you think that i can add a T5x or Ht 1003 instead for more depth ??
My listenning space is about 25m2 in a room of 60m2. Thanks 😊
Thank you for reaching out. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to provide a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system.
With my stereo pair of s 510’s I have them locked in time alignment with my mains. My room is not symmetrical. The right side of the room has a cutout in the middle of the room for a desk and windows. There is also a tall dormer in the cutout. I have a difference of one click between the pair on the crossover, and difference of 3 clicks on the volume. Left is at 5 and right is at 8, so quite a difference in volume between the left and right subs. It seems this gives me a very even soundstage. Is it normal to have a room dictate such a difference between subwoofer levels?
The Level control difference that you described between these two subwoofers is within the expected range, and if the system is placed in a room with uneven dimensions then it is certainly possible that different Level control settings will be needed for each unit. The goal of course is for the sound of your system to be balanced and even from left to right, even if this means variations in tuning settings between the units.
i have mixed feelings but clearer sound is whats important
Do you have plans to build a subwoofer for automobile market?
Thank you for reaching out. At this time our subwoofer models are exclusively designed for home audio applications, though we can forward this feedback to our design team for potential future consideration.
Hi, can I pair a T7x with the T7i for stereo?
Thanks for the answer.
Thank you for contacting us. The T/7x is the closest equivalent to your T/7i from among our current lineup, though improvements were made during the design of the T/7x which mean that they will not be a perfect match sonically. Ideally, the best option will be to find a good condition used T/7i to match with the one that you are currently using.
Would 2 Tzero MK3 subs be ok in a small 12x12 listening area? I have 2 Schiit:Vidars for my Magnepan LRSs and want to utilize the high level input.
A stereo pair of Tzero Mk.III subwoofers can perform well in this size of room, though in this size of room we recommend the T/5x as being the best option for pairing with your Magnepan LRS speakers. Compared to the Tzero Mk.III the T/5x has a faster and more responsive output, which will blend more seamlessly with these electrostatic speakers.
If you have any additional questions about subwoofer pairing for your system, then feel free to write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
@@RELAcoustics Magnepans are isodynamic not electrostatic.
Which sub would you recommend for a pair of B&W 805 D4s?
Thank you for reaching out, and for your interest in REL Acoustics subwoofers. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net with the dimensions (length, width, height) of your room and the model of amplifier that you are currently using to power these speakers and our team will be happy to assist with a subwoofer pairing recommendation for your B&W 805 D4s.
My room is 3m wide 7m deep and 2.75m hight. I have the B&W 606 S3 with Marantz Cinema 50 which supports 4 independent subs. I listen to music and watch movies. Which sub do you recommend starting out with and later upgrading to 2 subs and eventually after that to 4 subs?
Thank you for reaching out, and for supporting REL Acoustics. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to provide a subwoofer pairing recommendation specific to your system.
@@RELAcoustics I did. Thanks.
Hola John!!! Una pregunta ...
Es posible equalizar los subwoofers conectados con hi level input o no es nessesario??? Tengo denon avs x4700 e 2 Rel´s Q200E ...
Thank you for reaching out. When connecting your subwoofers using the High Level input it is possible to use their rear-panel tuning controls for adjusting the output, though we generally recommend against using room correction software while the High Level cables are connected. Instead we recommend running the room correction with the High Level cables disconnected, and then once the program has finished you can re-connect the cables and tune the subwoofers manually by-ear to blend with your speakers.
@@RELAcoustics
Entonces no necesita ningún tipo de equivocación ❗️❓❓❓❗️🤔
Hello! Tell me how to connect your two t5x subwoofers to a two-channel hegel h 190 amplifier??? I can't find this information anywhere! Even in your user manual!!!
Thank you for reaching out. When connecting a stereo pair of subwoofers to your Hegel H190, we recommend combining the red and yellow wires for the right channel subwoofer, and connecting to the right channel positive speaker output terminal on the amplifier, with the black wire then being connected to the right channel negative speaker output terminal. The same instructions can be used when connecting the left channel subwoofer to the left channel speaker outputs on your amplifier.
More detailed instructions, and a diagram showing these High Level connection instructions, can be found on page 20 of the T/5x's owner's manual.
I want to order 2 REL 7’S, but can’t figure out how I would hook the pair up to my Decware UFO 2.1 that has a floating ground….no common chassis ground….thanks in advance.
Thank you for reaching out. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our team will be happy to discuss connection options specific to your system.
I have 10 15 inch subwoofers. I have a problem.
Are stereo subs recommended for home theater or only two channel systems?
Thank you for reaching out. Using two subwoofers in stereo (one dedicated to right channel output and the other to left channel output) offers several performance benefits, including faster and more responsive output, stronger dynamics with greater headroom, and a more balanced distribution of sub-bass output throughout your room. These benefits improve the sub-bass output substantially for both 2-channel music and home theater listening.
@@RELAcoustics thanks for your response!
Hi REL, how to connect 2 subwoofer to my stereo power amplifier?
Thank you for reaching out. Here is a link to our video on connecting stereo pairs of subwoofers to a single amplifier using the High Level input: ua-cam.com/video/cV_0G3GdPxQ/v-deo.html
@@RELAcoustics thank you for your feedback. What I understand from the video that you refer, is how to connect 2 subwoofer to 2 monoblock. Could you give me information about how to connect 2 subwoofer to 1 stereo power amp (not monoblock), that doesn't have balanced output?
@@egasimanungkalit3372 The same instructions will apply for connecting a stereo pair of subwoofers to a stereo amp as with connecting to monoblocks. Essentially you are connecting one subwoofer to the right channel outputs on your amplifier, and the second subwoofer to the left channel outputs. For more information, here is a link to our article on connecting stereo pairs to a single stereo amplifier: rel.net/blog/2015-07-23/how-to/connecting-a-stereo-pair-of-rels-to-a-single-amp/
what if we have two subwoofers but we have a single pre-out? Is the stereo information lost?
Thank you for reaching out. What model of subwoofer are you using in this system, and what model of amplifier or receiver are you connecting them to?
@@RELAcoustics stereo leak 130, two tzeros as subs
i don't supposed you recommend dual for a desktop setup do you? I don't it makes much sense.
Thank you for reaching out. Stereo subwoofers can provide an improvement in performance in any system, including a nearfield desktop setup, though typically in this type of system a single subwoofer will suffice.
The problem is some rooms are L shaped or unusual shape and we don’t have the luxury of placing a second sub in a corner because there is no 2nd corner. You can overcome the limitations of a single sub with room correction, quality system and sometimes that is the best you can do. Setup properly with single decent sub like a T9X, you should not be able to locate the single sub in 2 channel.
Enjoy these videos, bought 2 line arrays of REL S510's... but, don't take John's words as gospel-- more than anything he is a salesman.
I have a pair of s510s now and used to have a single s510 prior. What he is describing here is pretty accurate. It’s hard to explain but the phantom center imaging actually expands. You could get by with a single sub of course but the imaging is definitely better. I had a single sub for nearly a year and wondered why I waited so long. John is also a salesman and REL subs are not cheap so there is that as well.
If each of the stereo pair is connected to their corresponding speaker post via the high level input, can the pair be stacked and achieve the same effect? This would be for space purposes.
It is possible to stack one subwoofer in a stereo pair configuration on top of the other, though the best results are achieved by having the two subwoofers placed separately in the room, ideally with each sub placed near to the corresponding main loudspeaker. The most noticeable benefit of this is that, by placing the subwoofers in separate positions in the room, you will get a more even distribution of sub-bass energy throughout the room.