The key question is not only what you want to do but why you want to do it. This was a very thought-provoking chapter. Do I make the decisions I make because that is what God has called me to do or am I trying to get something out of it? It goes back to the "Fall" where Adam and Eve decided to take for themselves instead of receiving God's instructions and obeying them.
What Maureen says at 5:10 is something we have also experienced in our small community - more than once we have had people say that we are obliged to accept them as members (even when they strongly disagree with some of our basic principles, such as forsaking all material wealth and sharing all things equally!), and if we don't, then we are not Christians!
Well, here is a central issue to many situations both in and outside of a religious community....When we apply for a new job we go through a selection process. When we want to join a sports club, again we are assessed on our abilities. Joining groups is part of the human condition. However, to join a full-time religious community requiring poverty, chastity and obedience is a huge step. My thoughts: One word - Trust. Trust those who have gone before and their opinions and process of absorption into the community. Trust that the life you lead now is but a stepping stone to life in community. Most importantly, trust the that Lord God is leading you there. If you can't trust any of these things then it's not the path for you.
I think it is also crucial to remember that joining a community is NOT the end goal, and should never be the end goal. I think many people become disenfranchised, bitter etc. because they were expecting their life to be "happily ever after in the Kingdom of Heaven" because they now joined a Christian community. However, as Jesus says, forsaking all to live by faith with other Christians is merely the prerequisite to becoming a disciple. Living in Christian community is NOT the same as being part of the Kingdom of Heaven (which is what really should be the end goal for any believer); Christian community simply offers us, ideally, a better platform for learning and practicing the principles of the Kingdom of Heaven. God may lead people to community not as the end in itself, but because it is the best place for them to continue growing in the knowledge of, and obedience to, God.
If you welcome everyone you could end up with a lot of people who have drug addiction and mental health problems. They would cause disruptoion and your community would be destroyed. Some rules about who is accepted would have to be in place.
This appears as if it was a difficult video to make. I understand. I lived in a Christian community for 5 years. After I was there for 3 years a decision was made to start excepting money from the state for counseling purposes. The language being used by the decision-makers was " casting our net deeper". I was completely opposed to the idea. However, I opened up to the possibility to be able to tell others about Jesus and his love for them. In about 6 months our culture began to change. The community became very tolerant and accommodating to open sin. Some of the Christians began to conform to non-Christian ways. Soon the community was dependent upon state money. We had gotten away from our traditional way of supporting ourselves. We eventually became like the rest of the world with Christianity sprinkled on it. After 2 more years, I decided I could no longer be part of such a community. I believe if forgiveness and love above anything in life. However, you are correct, you have to use wisdom. You cannot treat other people like terrorists, and just shun them. You need to always be involved in outreach and preaching the gospel to the lost. But you cannot open up your doors to those who do not line up with the Word of God. They must conform to you and God's word. And from the very beginning, there must be a commitment to do just that. Sometimes we believe there is something we can do to change others and draw them to God. That is humanism, and it will not stand the refinement test. My belief is that a person should already be a radical Christian in order to live in a Christian commune. And yes, to want to be part of a Christian family. I do believe that separating yourself from everyone including other Christians falls into the parable about "the talent".I was so sad when I left the Christian commune I lived in. I cried for days. However, Paul is very clear about separating yourself from such people, and about the snares involved. I applaud you. Set boundaries, and stick to them. Do not compare Christians against other Christians. Compare Christians against scripture. The letters John wrote to Asia in Revelation about tolerance and accommodation are very relevant today. May I also remind you that sometimes you don't know who to let into your community? In this case, Paul gives you a way out. He says to excommunicate them. Be swift to get rid of open sin in your midst, or it can consume you all. May God Bless both of you and your child. A bondservant of Jesus Christ, Brian P.
I think Christians are called to community but one reason I would find it difficult to join a community is, I have never been Married and I am called to be Married, I am in my 50's, if I join a community, it would be very hard to find a wife as their would be no eligible single women in their 40's or 50's, it would take a Miracle of God. On that subject, how do single persons find their spouses in Bruderhof? What is the role of the community or leadership in this process?
I believe that a Christian is a person who is loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, and has self-control. This should be the bases of a Christian community. Living as we will be in Heaven. Watching these videos I'm unclear if this is the bases of the this community. When I watch these videos it sounds like they discourage people from joining based on wanting these virtues in a community. I get the idea that the community is more based on living without money, dressing a certain way, and doing whatever the leadership deems right. These things are only important if it's comes from the pure heart. If the community is just looking for a socialist society then that's not the pure reason.
It is wise to get people to think long, hard and critically before make a lifelong commitment to a group with such high standards, ideals and practices. Those who best know what a Christian community is, and what it takes to make it in Christian community, are those who live in one, not those who have ideals which have not yet been tested in practice, no matter how noble those ideals sound, or how 'correct' they are on an intellectual level. At the end of the day, ideals are only rhetoric if they are never put to the test in real life. If you are looking for perfection you will not find it, not even in Christian community, and even less in untested ideals. The true basis of Christian community is what Jesus established - that we are dedicated to living out his teachings. The principles you mentioned, are merely the fruits of obedience, and as such are not, and logically cannot be, the foundation/root of obedience. (Although if you don't see those fruits, then sure, maybe the 'root' is not right.) And, at the end of the day, obedience is for oneself to practice first and foremost. Once we have the fruits of that obedience in our life, perhaps then we are given the authority to judge others on their 'fruit'.
Just ordered Following the Call. Happy new year! Looking forward to reading it with you both.
Rules, Boundaries & Limitations I think are the key to your community! Well, that and having wonderful guests visiting! ;-)
100%. Makes total sense. To me, I think your heart knows if it is for the right reasons. One cannot pretend; it must be real and deep, I would think.
The key question is not only what you want to do but why you want to do it. This was a very thought-provoking chapter. Do I make the decisions I make because that is what God has called me to do or am I trying to get something out of it? It goes back to the "Fall" where Adam and Eve decided to take for themselves instead of receiving God's instructions and obeying them.
What Maureen says at 5:10 is something we have also experienced in our small community - more than once we have had people say that we are obliged to accept them as members (even when they strongly disagree with some of our basic principles, such as forsaking all material wealth and sharing all things equally!), and if we don't, then we are not Christians!
Well, here is a central issue to many situations both in and outside of a religious community....When we apply for a new job we go through a selection process. When we want to join a sports club, again we are assessed on our abilities. Joining groups is part of the human condition. However, to join a full-time religious community requiring poverty, chastity and obedience is a huge step. My thoughts: One word - Trust. Trust those who have gone before and their opinions and process of absorption into the community. Trust that the life you lead now is but a stepping stone to life in community. Most importantly, trust the that Lord God is leading you there. If you can't trust any of these things then it's not the path for you.
Thanks for the thoughts Andrew, interesting points you made
I think it is also crucial to remember that joining a community is NOT the end goal, and should never be the end goal. I think many people become disenfranchised, bitter etc. because they were expecting their life to be "happily ever after in the Kingdom of Heaven" because they now joined a Christian community. However, as Jesus says, forsaking all to live by faith with other Christians is merely the prerequisite to becoming a disciple. Living in Christian community is NOT the same as being part of the Kingdom of Heaven (which is what really should be the end goal for any believer); Christian community simply offers us, ideally, a better platform for learning and practicing the principles of the Kingdom of Heaven. God may lead people to community not as the end in itself, but because it is the best place for them to continue growing in the knowledge of, and obedience to, God.
The commitment is similat to a marriage vow. For better or worse
If you welcome everyone you could end up with a lot of people who have drug addiction and mental health problems. They would cause disruptoion and your community would be destroyed. Some rules about who is accepted would have to be in place.
How about slc Utah
This appears as if it was a difficult video to make. I understand. I lived in a Christian community for 5 years. After I was there for 3 years a decision was made to start excepting money from the state for counseling purposes. The language being used by the decision-makers was " casting our net deeper". I was completely opposed to the idea. However, I opened up to the possibility to be able to tell others about Jesus and his love for them. In about 6 months our culture began to change. The community became very tolerant and accommodating to open sin. Some of the Christians began to conform to non-Christian ways. Soon the community was dependent upon state money. We had gotten away from our traditional way of supporting ourselves. We eventually became like the rest of the world with Christianity sprinkled on it. After 2 more years, I decided I could no longer be part of such a community. I believe if forgiveness and love above anything in life. However, you are correct, you have to use wisdom. You cannot treat other people like terrorists, and just shun them. You need to always be involved in outreach and preaching the gospel to the lost. But you cannot open up your doors to those who do not line up with the Word of God. They must conform to you and God's word. And from the very beginning, there must be a commitment to do just that. Sometimes we believe there is something we can do to change others and draw them to God. That is humanism, and it will not stand the refinement test. My belief is that a person should already be a radical Christian in order to live in a Christian commune. And yes, to want to be part of a Christian family. I do believe that separating yourself from everyone including other Christians falls into the parable about "the talent".I was so sad when I left the Christian commune I lived in. I cried for days. However, Paul is very clear about separating yourself from such people, and about the snares involved. I applaud you. Set boundaries, and stick to them. Do not compare Christians against other Christians. Compare Christians against scripture. The letters John wrote to Asia in Revelation about tolerance and accommodation are very relevant today. May I also remind you that sometimes you don't know who to let into your community? In this case, Paul gives you a way out. He says to excommunicate them. Be swift to get rid of open sin in your midst, or it can consume you all. May God Bless both of you and your child. A bondservant of Jesus Christ, Brian P.
Greetings,please do you have a branch here in Duhok Kurdistan?
I think Christians are called to community but one reason I would find it difficult to join a community is, I have never been Married and I am called to be Married, I am in my 50's, if I join a community, it would be very hard to find a wife as their would be no eligible single women in their 40's or 50's, it would take a Miracle of God.
On that subject, how do single persons find their spouses in Bruderhof? What is the role of the community or leadership in this process?
I believe that a Christian is a person who is loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, and has self-control. This should be the bases of a Christian community. Living as we will be in Heaven. Watching these videos I'm unclear if this is the bases of the this community. When I watch these videos it sounds like they discourage people from joining based on wanting these virtues in a community. I get the idea that the community is more based on living without money, dressing a certain way, and doing whatever the leadership deems right. These things are only important if it's comes from the pure heart. If the community is just looking for a socialist society then that's not the pure reason.
It is wise to get people to think long, hard and critically before make a lifelong commitment to a group with such high standards, ideals and practices. Those who best know what a Christian community is, and what it takes to make it in Christian community, are those who live in one, not those who have ideals which have not yet been tested in practice, no matter how noble those ideals sound, or how 'correct' they are on an intellectual level. At the end of the day, ideals are only rhetoric if they are never put to the test in real life. If you are looking for perfection you will not find it, not even in Christian community, and even less in untested ideals. The true basis of Christian community is what Jesus established - that we are dedicated to living out his teachings. The principles you mentioned, are merely the fruits of obedience, and as such are not, and logically cannot be, the foundation/root of obedience. (Although if you don't see those fruits, then sure, maybe the 'root' is not right.) And, at the end of the day, obedience is for oneself to practice first and foremost. Once we have the fruits of that obedience in our life, perhaps then we are given the authority to judge others on their 'fruit'.
I'm more asking a question... What is the motivation for the community.