Really well put together, ascended Astarion is not Cazador 2.0. Yes, the two characters DO have similarities but that's because they're both vampire lords. Just as they have similarities, they also have major differences.
@@iamkittybg3 Honestly it does make me realize that Astarion is not Cazador 1 to 1. He still took his place in more ways than just the ritual, though. He took his place as the abuser, cycle of abuse and all that. That especially shows at the "we" part. He does say "we" and "ours" but he drops that the second you go against him. He went paranoid, and when you read his thoughts, even he doesn't like what he's become. This all makes me a huge hypocrite though, I'm a sucker for Ascended Astarion. (Well, Astarion in general, really)
@@fatalos6855 "Cycle of abuse" Whilst there's different ways to interpret the stories, I see it differently. Spawn talks about saving him from the cycle of POWER and TERROR, which I read as something very differently. Ascending is becoming a vampire lord, a type of vampire that are known to be evil and want to obtain lots of power and control. This doesn't mean he's going to become an abuser towards his consort. Also the only instance I can think of where he "drops" it is during the denied break-up. When you talk about reading his thoughts, do you mean during the rom scene? Or another scene?
@@KuroPhina I think it's the rom scene? I might be wrong though That's definitely a cool interpretation of AA though! I have to admit, the denied breakup scene kinda breaks the deal for me as far as non-toxic interpretations go, but I get where you're coming from now
I have to say my favorite part was the inclusion of the “We. Did it” line, a nice little reminder that Tav has to proactively participate in helping him ascend sooooooo
That's honestly one of the only things I dislike about the Ascension route. It's riddled with bad, preachy writing for the sake of making Astarion seem worse than he actually is.
@@britt6184 not necessarily I mean the way I see it is Tav in this moment is declaring themselves as Astarion’s ride or d!e, that they’ll have his back and stay at his side no matter what personally what I think happens a lot of the time is the anti-AA crowd will often take things out of context and make videos about it to make him seem worse than he is rather than it being the writing itself
People keep forgetting that part. I hear some whining "But he was mean to my Tav when she mentioned she wasn't happy HE sacrificing those 7k souls." Of course he gets angry. By projecting his runes into his mind you told him you are okay with the ritual, that you are supporting him with this. And you have to help him, he literally has no way to do the ritual on his own. It's not like he can grab a mirror. I'd get mad too if my partner suddenly got preachy after all that.
@@britt6184 Agreed. One person with an agenda came into the AA romance to try to preach to grown adults as to why liking AA is bad. It's incredibly disingenuous and unprofessional. Let us have fun with our pixel man!
The way Astarion loves and compliments Tav/Durge suggests he truly cares for them deeply. In a similar way its like Dracula and Lisa from Castlevainia.
@@minashepard1255 I fully agree with this! I'd like to think his powers are like that of Vlad (Dracula) now that he's Ascended. He's the Lord above Lords. Depending on how your Tav/Durge's personality is... You can be a Consort like Lisa at his side keeping him calm and friendly or you can be a Consort like Camilla feeding into his darker and more sinister nature. OR be a mixture of both because let's face it, if his Consort tells him what she wants (Anything) including a life taken...then he will do it for her without question. Dracula wanted to end everything as well as himself when they took Lisa from him. Astarion would dang near turn into a worse version of Ketheric and curse all of Baldur's Gate. 😅
Another well done video. People will try to spin this to fit their own narrative, but there's plenty of evidence to show that while Ascended Astarion is evil, he isn't Cazador 2.0.
@@TrancerDesigns Spike and Drusilla from Buffy were also insanely evil when they arrived in Sunnydale in season 2 and yet they've been in madly love for 200 years or so at that time.
Oh, I like this! I freely admit I usually have him stay a spawn, but I am gearing up to do do an Ascended run! I don't see him as purely evil, the power of an Ascended Vampire makes him so different to everyone around him that he has trouble feeling any empathy. He certainly has the potential to become far more evil, but that's what makes his love for Tav so important. It grounds him, softens him. Cazador was all about control, for him power meant he could control anyone and anything, raise himself above the rest of the world. Astarion does have some of that, but with Tav by his side he's far more focused on using his power to keep them both safe, and giving his beloved Tav everything they could possibly want. He has a dialogue option very early on when he's explaining exactly what a spawn is, where he tells you how a 'true' vampire is made. He's very adamant that no vampire would create another because all they're doing is giving themselves a rival. They're viciously territorial and absolutely will not suffer another vampire encroaching on them. Ascended Astarion loves Tav so much that he breaks that rule completely. He's not only willing, but enthusiastic about turning Tav. Their bond is unheard of among vampires, and I love that. Even ascending can't drive them apart. ❤
@@entorienscriber8049well, to be honest, Tav will never be AA equal in terms of power. So Astarion didnt break this rule. He is Ascended Vampire, one of his kind. Tav more like regular vampire with some features from his creator (like, sun protection, mirror reflection) but without his power. (but he still break rule about "power in solitude")
love this!! people tend to claim that he's just manipulating tav when he says he loves them, but things like the mindflayer clip and the prophecy literally prove otherwise
@@undersnails thank you 🙏☺️ I don't think he manipulates Tav because it doesn't make sense. He turned Tav, he didn't need to manipulate Tav anymore. I think he's being sincere. 😊
This is the only channel who sees more to what Ascended Astarion is, I noticed the "WE" "OURS" and he firstly says "YOURS" before himself when I Ascended him for the first time really nice detail. He sees you as his equal by extension his powers too which is rare considering the Velliloth text states the vampire life is meant to be alone and are they also very competitive. My preference is AA cuz I just want him to experience life again without the tadpole, I want him to see his reflection again and bask under the sun. He deserves the world~
@@iamkittybg3 6:37 If she's right, both Tav and Astarion may be the oldest vampires in the realms. That I find most exciting! Seeing as we can find a list of several previous vampire lords, and they don't tend to last more than 2 or 3 centuries at most. But Tav and Astarion.... 'thousands' of year. That's powerful longevity.
Absolutely agree! Astarion deserves the world, deserves to never suffer from hunger again (only after Ascension Astarion is free from this feeling: “I... I can't feel it. That ache in my stomach, that hunger - it's gone"), deserves to feel alive again! Deserves sunshine, not eternity in darkness. I was touched to the core at one time by the moment of how greedily he greets the dawn in the scene after his first night with him. And such a high, in the “Ascended” scene on the docks, in the sunshine! When I went through it the first time, the contrast from the previously seen videos of the scene on the docks with UA, is just a special treat (like when you know something bad could happen, but it never will).
I prefer the route for the same reason: for him to be in sun, not feel hunger, feel alive, NOT clumsily running away to find shelter after the tadpole is officially gone.
Yeah, there's a lot of "we, us, ours" in the dialogues, one of his lines is even "YOURS and MINE", putting "yours" first. I see the AA romance as two powerful vampires ruling together ^^
I always play characters that wanna rule the world just as much as he does and I love playing it that way I’ve always believed he never was Casador anyway
Fuck yes girl, keep fighting against all the AA slander ❤💕💖 Great video. Also holy shit I really hope the mod of the exposed-chest clothes comes to console soon because I need it more than air lmao
Great vid, much needed AA appretiation! He's definitely not Cazador, he's loving, protecting, changes plans for his beloved, never hurta Tav/Durge, and telling him off right away after he's done nothing but the ritual is ridiculous. I wish we'd have more options of talking to him about the ritual itself, if he reflects about it, because the only really bad thing about Ascension is sending 7000 souls to Avernus for eternal sufferings after they suffered for 200 years already. This is a dire price to pay, but realistically it's either that or just killing them. The ending where they are released and everything is fine after they were hungry for 200 (!) years straight, when we are told that Astarion was "robbed of speach and reason" from severe hunger and wishing only for death for months after being sealed in a tomb for only 1 year, is too peachy and unrealistic (and we're talking about fantasy), at least for me and based on the information we get from a character of the BG3 world. Still even this detail with cruel ritual makes the whole story so... good, jucy, really dark. You cannot really walk out of it whistling and in white gloves, you'll have to make a decision, and it will affect somebody. As it was already mentioned here, it's really an eternal question, will you choose 7000 strangers, of your beloved, concidering you either will make 7000 stranger suffer or destroy your lovers dreams. And I'm glad about the possibility to look at all the outcomes.
Thank you❤😊 The decision of what to do with 7000 spawns does not seem to have good solutions. My Tav/Durge thinks that it is not worth releasing them, because they are hungry and maddened spawns that will eat thousands of truly innocent people. Are these spawns innocent? We only know that they are vagrants, swindlers and idiots according to Astarion, whom he found in the flophouses. The fact that one of the 7000 thousand was able to talk to us does not mean that they can all resist hunger and are not mad. Even Sebastian seems mad to me, from the wrong answer from Tav he can start screaming and cursing us. My Tav is more important to save the lives of truly innocent people, and not to rejoice at Sebastian's letter at the end of the game. (I don't like Sebastian, sorry😅) In which he writes exactly about how many people they ate on the way to the Underdark. Not in the Underdark itself, but only on the way. Many believe that there is no pity for anyone in the Underdark, but there are also creatures there that have done nothing wrong and want to live, and not be eaten by spawns. For example, deep gnomes, drow, Omellum, and so on. Many creatures live in the Underdark and they are not all monsters. And no, 7000 spawns don't deserve a second chance like Astarion, because Astarion has proven to us throughout our entire journey that he deserves a second chance, but they don't. 7000 spawns are already spawns, which according to dnd puts them in the evil category. Perhaps, even when Astarion remains a spawn and we kill them out of mercy, their souls still go to Hell. Therefore, I do not see much of a difference and do not think that sending them to Mephistopheles is a much worse option. This is my vision and interpretation, you may not agree with it, but this is how I see it. 😁
@iamkittybg3 wow, that's an interesting vision, thatnks for sharing! Yeah, actually Astarion did said himself, he chose people of low social layer and really bad background, and it's logical, the lower the level, the less questions will be asked (I guess, other Spawns went along the same plan, they are not stupid). Somehow I've forgotten that being a victim in one case doesn't make you innocent in another one, and there might have been not the best people there who'd deserve to go to Hell. It's just that among the scoundrels there might be some good or at least sort of sane souls, even "fools" are not meant to be evil, just trusting enough to get into a trap (well, yeah, like Sebastian, I don't dislike and am compassionate with the guy 😅, or the Gur kids, or the other six Spawns, but about these guys we don't know much), and they are the victims here. I see this situation like pouring water with the baby in it, and you can't escape it. Drama as it is, but a decision still has to be made. I myself haven't spare them, as I don't see letting them walk around as a safe option and I fully agree here with you, it is dangerous. Hm, and there's really even more at stake than your lover and 7007 souls, as you say, other people and creatures also want to live and not be eaten by Spawns. Even the monsters of the Underdark. As the Underdark is existing as it is, it means it has it's own unique ecosystem, and the monsters are an important part in its ecosystem, and if such an invasive kind like Spawn will come there and eat the monsters (and the Spawns will eat a lot), the super resilient and agressive ecosystem might just break down at some point, and there will be even more deaths, not only by Spawns fangs, but through famine, because the Drow will suddenly see that there's nothing to hunt for, the Dwergars and Deep Gnomes will lose there cattle of Deep Rote, or the monsters will migrate to safer areas, where the Mykonides live and kill eachother for territory. Wow... Gods, I love this game, just this one story of a our pixel vampire gives you so much to think about! P.S. I'm now very-very interested in the contents of Sebatians letter 😅 Agressive SA simps mention only the newspaper where it's said that Spawns didn't hurt anybody, but not this letter.
There is no newspaper about spawns, only Sebastian's letter in the epilogue. Yes, he thanks for the second chance, but at the same time frankly informs us that while the spawns were going to the Underdark, many died, many missed, many aggressively attacked the first people they met. No, this is definitely not the best outcome for me.😅 Besides, for my Tav/Durge, the most important thing is love and her beloved, so she doesn't care about the fate of other spawns, she is happy to help Astarion in ascension 😁❤️
@@juliabe408 "After so long in a vampire's cell, I'd almost forgotten how to write. Never mind what to write. But what can you say to the person who unlocked your cage and gave you your life back? Or gave us some kind of life, at least. After you killed Cazador and opened our cells, we fled into the Underdark. There were thousands of us - a ravenous wave, mad with freedom and out for blood. And Gods, did we find blood. We swarmed every monster and unfortunate in our path, drinking what we could. We lost hundreds along the way - some to beasts, but most just disappeared into the dark. It wasn't easy, but eventually Cazador's house spawn calmed us and took control. They found some old ruins we could call home and we've been there ever since, building new lives for ourselves. We're not free down here, the dark will chain us forever, but we aren't the prisoners we once were either. And that's thanks to you. You looked in our cages and saw people, not monsters. And here, down in the shadows, we're trying to live up to that. Thank you, now and forever, - Sebastian" ^^ Letter from Sebastian when you release the spawns. I haven't released them before though, not even on my spawn run.
@@KuroPhina thank you very much, that's super insightful! 🥲🖤 Gods, I love this game and this uneasy feeling you get in this particular story with either choice or another. There are always losses, no matter the case, some paths are just destined to be paved with corpses. But well, what is a good vampire story without a drama or tragedy in it?
Китти, вы просто сокровище! Так надоело, что большинство привыкли поливать грязью АА. Мне кажется здесь действует тот же принцип, что и в жизни: "If you can't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". Легко придумать, что ты переделал любимого человека и все в порядке. Но возможно ты просто с самого начала не пытался увидеть его настоящим, таким, какой он есть. SA и AA - это одна и та же личность. Невозможно обожать одного и ненавидеть другого.
@@serpent_seed Спасибо, мне очень приятно читать такие комментарии ❤️ и я полностью с вами согласна: SA или AA - он все тот же Астарион. Мне тоже так надоел весь хейт вокруг AA, это просто невозможно читать/смотреть.
Я понимаю, что люди могут быть недовольны тем, что Вознесенный Астарион хочет не просто быть с Тавом, а владеть им, но отрицать что это тот же самый Астарион - крайне странно. Да он буквально грезит властью и возможностями которые может дать вознесение. Кстати, ненавистники AA очень любят припоминать что при попытке разорвать отношения AA говорит что "твое будущее теперь принадлежит мне", но не припоминают, что SA в этой ситуации угрожает 7000 голодных отродий. Интересно, что было бы если б SA дали инструмент чтобы привязать Тава, а?
@@Yaguarundi Так мы видим что - Аст с возможностью привязать Тава это и есть вознесенный))) Люди просто отказываются признавать, что это всё тот же человек, просто в разных обстоятельствах
Just realize that i ascended him in 3 of 5 my romances. And one of non-ascended game abandoned because good aligment Tav just doesnt fit any Astarion (feel like i must control his bad side, and it feels wrong).
They are only similar in the sense they are both Vampire Lords lol love me some positive AA content, thank you queen❤❤ it was also a nice compilation of my fav AA phrases so win win for meeeeee
I dont agree fully to AA but loving Astarion means loving all of him which includes the evil, the bad and the ugly. And lets be real, if powers like AA has existed 90% of humanity would act even worse than him.
Right? You can just look at the real-life humans who have power. Astarion doesn't even do half the atrocities we humans do to each other. Instead he keeps asking his consort what she wants, hosting lavish balls, and flapping around as a cute bat at Withers' party lol. Pretty sure Tav could distract him from world domination for all eternity with new shiny hobbies.
Perfectly made. Giving proof compared to just discussing it in comments adds more credibility. The love is true, there’s no control over us as we go and do as we please without asking for consent. Everything is us, we, ours. He might have the power but he shares it with his consort, a fancy word for spouse. He gave us blood while turning us and we feed off each other, this counters calling us a spawn rather than a true vampire. Unless people forget the dialogue with him about how to become a vampire, the differences between as it’s taken that a spawn can be in the sun until Astarion disagrees and says he should be in ashes, and then how to become a true vampire which he says that the sire must approve to give their blood to their spawn and notes the reason why no true vampire would let go of their spawn as it’s more competition (other than a cleric with a stake, the only thing that can kill a true vampire is another true vampire). We are NOT spawns as he was open to sharing his blood while turning and allowing us to feed of him. There’s no spinning the truth to fit one’s narrative that he is the same as Cazador. When he’s angered or upset it’s because he’s responding to us. Anything he says after being broken up with are lies to hurt us back. If he gets accused of becoming something or someone he’s not naturally he will react badly. Anyone who tries to use those moments are either in denial, never had a break up before, or just looking for something to say against AA even if they’re grasping at straws and making huge leaps to validate he’s abusive and we are below him (which is a misunderstood dialogue taken out of context). Nothing is definitive proof against him and that his love for us is a lie.
Hell yes! Love the video! Good job as always. 🖤 Adding to 1 (not biting thinking creatures): He ALSO encourages you to bite one of the drow twins (you can pick which one). And also adding how he is not like Cazador: - Cazador flayed and tortured his spawn - he even had an extra servant who would torture them if he didn't feel like it - Cazador locked thousands of them in dungeons, not feeding some of them for hundreds of years - Cazador made his spawn sell their bodies to lure people back - Astarion is now the Vampire Ascendent, which means he has his mortal feelings back, which includes love. Cazador was incapable of feeling love - the gentle way Astarion makes Tav a vampire is VERY different how he was made a vampire by Cazador. He was drained and then buried The moment we get the option to call him Cazador 2.0, the only things he did was kill the Gur who wouldn't let him leave even if he backed down, and make Tav a vampire (if bride or spawn it's up to your role-play) as carefully as he possibly could
@@Nakumiya There are people that have said that he wouldn't let the player bite other people? I mean.... canonically in the game he not only tells the player to go nibble on one of the Drow twins (or Halsin), he lets his consort get first dibs xD
@@KuroPhina I could have sworn I saw someone say he not only doesn't let Tav bite him (that he lies when he says she'll taste his blood, which ALSO doesn't make sense since he already gave her blood during her transformation, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to share his power from Mephistopheles with her), but also enforces Cazador's rule of not biting people. Mind you, some people do twist themselves into pretzels trying to make him more evil than he is. And yes in my game I also had him tell my Tav that she can pick which of the drow she wants 😃 When does he say she can bite Halsin? That would be even better since my Tavs sometimes also romance Halsin alongside Astarion. 😍
I think the easiest way to explain how every decision in the game changes the whole game and makes every single role-play fantasy true (including an Ascended Astarion who loves his consort), is to imagine it being like Marvel’s Multiverse. In one universe you have the Loki we know, in another we have Kid Loki or Lady Loki etc. Generally, only one Loki exists in one particular universe (unless some weird event in the comics / movies / show forces them all to be in one room), they others don’t exist in that particular universe. They do exist in their own universe however and the Loki we are familiar with isn’t the one they know. In BG3 with every playthrough you start, you start a new universe. In one you may be durge, in another you are a Tav, one you may be a Tiefling fighter who romances Wyll, in another you are a human bard who romances Astarion. In some Astarion gets left at the beach, in some you let the Gur take him, in others a player might stake him. None of these universes know the other exists. Spawn Astarion doesn’t know that there is an ascended version of himself and vice versa. They also don’t know that there are versions where Cazador wins or where Astarion gets staked. So, with that being said, of course you can play a poor little naïve character who was manipulated into helping Astarion ascend and become his consort, only to panic and find no way out. Your character can have a tragic ending, tied to a monster for eternity, if you desire. But the same goes for having a loving relationship between two vampires, like say Spike and Dru from Buffy. Two monsters hellbent on world domination. When Spike and Dru arrived in Sunnydale in season 2, Dru was very weak due to an attack. Spike, despite being a monster, lovingly cared for her. The same dynamic can be roleplayed with Ascended Astarion and Tav. Heck, Tav can even be someone who reigns him in and distracts him with shiny new hobbies for all eternity and delays his world domination plans forever. In this reality the dialogue with Tav being yelled at for comparing him to Cazador or him refusing to break up doesn’t exist for either Astarion nor Tav. It might exist in the tragic end if you choose to click on that option. You could even leave him spawn and role-play him getting resentful towards Tav in the future. The game allows for all this to be true. BG3 leaves us an insane amount of freedom to create our own stories. None of them are wrong (unless you hand Scratch to that awful lady in act 3, wtf is wrong with you?). And it just really sucks if you get screamed at by anti-AA people and told you deserve to be in an abusive relationship or that you need therapy or whatnot.
Yes! The Marvel Multiverse comparison is a really good one! That's something I always try to explain to everyone, but I did it with string theory😅 Any answer we choose excludes others, a line of events goes in one direction, excluding other lines of events. Because all the dialogue lines can't be in one playthrough. And I like the Loki comparison😊 Haha, I like him as a character. I also like playing the rogue class in all the games, and that doesn't mean I'm a rogue in real life😂(if anyone is worried about my real life)
@@iamkittybg3 Yes exactly, for instance if you side with the goblins you can never get the act 2 tiefling quests. Because in that timeline the tieflings have ceased to exist. I hate it so much when people think their fantasies are the only correct ones. "Oh she will fear him." "He will become abusive." Okay, well maybe in YOUR game, but he isn't like that in mine. He never yelled at my Tav, he never told her he won't let her leave etc. Because she never asked to leave. She was happy with him. And he adored her. Always protective, always eager to give her whatever she wanted. Loki is so much fun, I love him too. Tom Hiddleston is also a beautiful man. Have you ever seen Crimson Peak? A gothic romance and gah I love that movie. Haha you are not a rogue in real life? And probably not an elf either! I'm shocked! I regret to inform you, I'm also neither a drow nor a Tiefling, and sadly neither Warlock or Druid 😂
I haven't seen this movie but I'll take note of what to watch this weekend. I like Tom Hiddleston, he's very charming.😊 That's right, breaking up is not the goal of my Tav's relationship. She would never do that and she is happy with her relationship with AA. So AA has never heard that from her, and she has never heard his reaction to it. She is happy with him, and he is happy with her.❤️
Thank you so much for this wonderful video! 💯It touches the heart so much that Astarion always says “we”, “us” (and even puts special emphasis in his voice on it!), this story is a story of true deep love and unity. 💞 To be honest, I've always wondered where this strange interpretation of “Astarion - Cazador 2.0” even came from, how can one person suddenly turn into another in such a magical way? I think the premise of the “cycle of abuse” lies in fanfiction, and in my opinion is a fantasy of fans of the non-consensual romance genre. I've also seen artwork with Cazador many times in the work of fans of that genre and the fantasy of feeling in Astarion's shoes. The idea of this “cycle” itself lends itself perfectly to these kinds of stories of suffering and violence. That, in my humble opinion, is where the fantasy of Cazador 2.0 was born. Of course, for those of us who aren't fans of the genre, the idea seems like something strange, and trying to pull it over on the original game - even more so. The only “evidence” for this headcanon in the game is that Tav can say “Now you're just like Cazador”. How is the possibility of a certain line supposed to convince someone of anything? Astarion is a very lively and reactive character. And he reacts to words and actions the way a living person reacts. Tav is always the initiator of conflict. The line “You're like Cazador” are words fit for a roleplay of an extremely cruel and emotionless character, these words are aimed at hurting him, nothing more. Astarion - a character with PTSD (PTSD survivors can have very aggressive and even lightning fast reactions to such things, tell a soldier who has experienced torture in captivity that he is just like the one who tortured him and no good will come of it). Astarion was a victim of terrible violence, he's been a victim for 200 years, I don't think headcanon authors on the topic of “toxicity” or anyone in the real world at all, can fully imagine it. Maybe the game's authors went a bit overboard in describing the suffering in Astarion's story, the psyche can't handle something like that, and a personality that has gone through something like that is unlikely to retain integrity. But Astarion has. And he reacts more than adequately to the cruel, insulting, treacherous words from the one person whom he, unfortunately, has only just begun to trust. The fact that Astarion is now forever bound to Tav, and is emotionally attached to Tav anyway, and “won't let break up” where any self-confident person who thinks he deserves a decent partner would have pointed the door to such a Tav, in no way makes Astarion an abuser. The ritual of conversion has no reversal, the two characters are forever bound to each other. A brutal villain would have killed such a Tav after the adventure was over, simply out of logical calculation and unwillingness to have a traitor behind his back. There would have been no epilogue with such a roleplay. Abuser would have behaved completely differently and shown real brutality in response to the line, “You're like Cazador”. But Astarion's response is anger and resentment, not violence. At the same time, if you play with love to Astarion, - he gives great love in return. In general, it is even interestingly shown, - Astarion behaves like a living person, he reacts to the attitude towards him, and behaves differently with different people. A player can choose a feud story, and see love crumble, break Astarion's heart, and yes, Astarion will treat their Tav/Du differently, just don't confuse that with Astarion's attitude towards the Tav/Du of those players who love Astarion, and choose a love story. With AA, two different stories are possible, depending on the player's attitude and roleplay. With Tav who loves Astarion, Astarion's behavior is also very loving, playful, and he is very much attached to Tav. I always savor being with him, how proud and contented he has become, how he has literally blossomed before my eyes. It's a wonderful feeling when a loved one opens up in relationship with you, Astarion opened up, squared his shoulders, even his movements and posture became more confident. Playful lines with charming movements (“Yes, my treasure?”), deep and serious declarations of love (“Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever, until the world falls down”), and many other beautiful moments that you showed in your wonderful video. If you watch a slice of AA haters' videos on “Bad Astarion - unhealthy relationship” and just put yourself in Astarion's shoes, imagine it all being addressed to you, especially: “You're like Cazador” (knowing that Cazador tormented him for two hundred years and Astarion hated that creature more than anything else in the world), then you'll be able to appreciate this situation in all its colors. To me, there is something creepy and utterly vile about the suggestion of leaving a loved one in darkness, with perpetual hunger, with no colors of life, with dulled senses, because he is not behaving the way a “good boy” should behave in their view. To me, a “healthy relationship” is a relationship without pain and tragedy, and that's it. The only thing I want to do after this is to go into my game and kiss Astarion and build my own healthy relationship with him where he never gets hurt again. Thank you for dispelling these myths! 👍
The Cazador 2.0 comment always makes me so mad. Those are words none of my Tavs or Durges will ever utter to him because it's insanely cruel. What has he done since Ascension? Killed the Gur who would have not let him leave anyway (I tried talking them out of it, they would literally not budge and they threatened to hunt him for eternity, so screw them, especially since they seemed to have waited forever to get to the dungeon in the first place and then whined that the outcome was not one they wanted) and the second thing he did was make Tav a vampire. And he makes her into a vampire in the most careful and gentle way possible, very unlike how he was turned. He had to dig himself out of his own grave and coughed up congealed blood. Tav woke up in a bed with her lover by her side who stayed there watching over her while she transformed. And you are so right that people forget just how terrible Cazador was to Astarion, for 200 years. It's difficult to grasp just how long 200 years is (if Cazador would have snatched me up as a baby, I still would have over 160 years left of that terrible sentence). And one of the tortures he inflicted was flaying, which has to hurt like hell. And feeding him dead putrid rats. We are incredibly lucky Astarion is as sane as he is. By all rights he should have been a crazed monster. Telling Astarion he is just like Cazador is insane. I am astonished how well they created these characters that they react on the player characters choices the way they do. In my playthrough my Ascended Astarion was also incredibly loving and protective, something I did not expect after seeing all those youtube videos where people make him seem like a monster to Tav. One even edited the kiss scene where he pushes her face away during the kiss to look like he'd slapped her. I was so nervous ascending him and then... I loved him? And I thought I'd lost my mind or missed something, before I found this channel. I found a different, smaller channel who also posts AA videos and I excitedly commented I like him too, just to be swarmed by anti-AA haters, one even lecturing me on vampires, as if I hadn't been a fan of vampires for 30 years now lol. Of course that was the same old drivel "vampires in DnD don't feel love" talk, when AA is an ascended vampire, which is a Larian homebrew and one of the things in the contract between Mephistopheles and Cazador was that he gets his mortal feelings back. Plus Astarion even shares that power with Tav. He didn't need to do that, a "slave" (as anti-AA people see Tav in this relationship) who has to hide in shadows would be so much easier to control. I did try a playthrough with Spawn, but as soon as I saw the "His fate is sealed" pop up in the quest entries my heart sank. He sounded so timid compared to AA and I felt like he was acting to make my Tav like him. And him running from the sun, with NO ONE of the group running after him made me so sad. I still like him, but I feel like my character forces him to choose between her and the thing he wants: ascension. And I don't ever want to do that to Astarion.
@@Nakumiya I understand you so much! I always felt so sorry for him, leaving him as a spawn and then watching him burn. And I was also afraid to let him ascend. And then when I did it, I realized that I was misinformed. A lot of time has passed since then and I have been letting him ascend always since then. 😁
@@iamkittybg3 yeah only kept him spawn once and the minute I kept him spawn I started disliking that playthrough. The whole time I had this weird cold feeling like I'd somehow broken him, taken away everything he wanted and I felt like I was almost another Cazador, denying him what he wanted. He is sweet and I understand people liking him, but he feels so much happier ascended.
@@Nakumiya Yes, I understand you completely!🤝 That misinformation caused me a lot of heartache the first time I played the game too. I couldn't help but spoiler, what happens during the refusal of the ritual, “His fate is sealed” in the diary, his behavior (Astarion completely lost the playfulness he had in Act 2 and kind of “faded out”, if I may say so). It was all too scary to follow the principles of a “clean” first game, as I had always played any game before, trying not to spoil the first impression with any information from the net. I tried not to spoiler Ascended, but I read a lot of anti-AA haters online about the whole “abusive”, “will never respect Tav” thing (and for me respect is very important in a relationship, I respected Astarion and treated him as carefully as I could), and damn it, I didn't come across a single intelligent AA comment that would have calmed me down a bit. I felt awful, running around with UA with tears in my eyes, letting the rest of the plot “pass me by” ( when replaying with AA for everything was like a new experience). I even started having insomnia in real life, regularly forgetting my keys, phone and other unpleasant things. I decided to quit the hell out of this game without completing it. I don't know, maybe I'm weird, of course, but I couldn't get over the fact that I had, in fact, left Astarion “brat forever" in an uncompleted game, that is, in a world where he has no hope. I decided “let him be an abuser, I don't care”, loaded the save before the fight with Cazador, preparing in advance for bad things to happen, just to get through to the end, get Astarion to his “evil” finale where he'll be fine, and I'll never touch this game again. I played through with patch 5, and I guess if I had seen those mocking “kisses” of patch 6 in the game then, I probably wouldn't have been so angry, I would have fought my way through them, maybe made some evil around to get even, but still gotten him to his finale. But the opposite happened - “You gave me everything. Thank you.” And it felt real, it felt like I really deserved those lines, it felt serious. And his gratitude afterward, his joy, his playfulness, his wonderful “treasure,” “Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever...”. There was great love on his part. And certainly no “abuse”. I even got online myself and started getting involved in all these debates against anti-AA because I really wanted to share my experience that everything would be okay after the kneeling scene, because I myself had only encountered anti-AA opinions about it in my time, which made me a lot more nervous than this scene would have made me if I had talked to any of the AA fans before going through this scene. Then, after talking to other players who love Astarion (and I believe that it is AA fandom that truly loves him, whoever is offended by this opinion, sorry, you let him be suffering, you are willing to put up with it, and if you can ignore his suffering, but nothing terrible from the fact that you will ignore the opinion of a stranger on the inernet will not happen to you either), and my own walkthroughs and analysis, I made a complete and final opinion about this story. In order to honestly believe that rejecting the ritual is good for Astarion (not for the world, the player himself, anyone else, but for Astarion himself) you have to be “media literate” to the fullest.That's the only way. Hence so much aggression on their part - all those yelling on reddit, “forum battles” demanding the return of sexualized violence scenes (victim facial expressions from patch 6, which triggered PTSD in many people). But the facts will always remain facts, and no amount of articles on “The fact that Astarion burns at the end is good for him”, this is “bittersweet” (I'm sick of that word combination, to be honest) and editing videos to make Astarion a “monster” can do nothing about it.
I had already commented on this video but I did what I said I would do and in another save I Ascended him. He changed a bit but he is still his silly funny self😂 In Avernus “I don’t have any idea what we are gonna do but we have a hammer so that means we are smashing something😀” lol That had me laughing. I was like: “And there you go folks! The Vampire Lord for you”😂😂 And with Harleep he says “Darling what are you doing?! This is not safe!” He jokes around even in the most desperate of situations and he shows that he CARES. I’m still not finished with this playthrough but my conclusion is he IS Astarion. The same man you knew only power drunk. Ascending him just heightens up the dark part of him that was always there. My Tav is not Durge but they can both be better eterna amantes and people in due time (Since I mean they did sacrifice 7000 spawn). Surely Astarion will chill a bit. Although I feel a bit sad that Karlach and the rest push him aside after his Ascension. Makes me think on “alone when I had nothing and alone when I have everything”. It is sad. He dose tell you “There is a loneliness that comes with power.” There’s a lot to dig up really I do feel sad because of the kisses. I would have loved for my Tav to show some dominance or some soft moment kisses with passion. But that’s fine, that’s why I have her dating Gale too.😂
@@pamelagoneillmartinez1405 I'm glad you see Astarion after ascension the same. 😊 I also see him as the same Astarion. He has more power, but he doesn't change for me, as many write. If you play on PC, I can recommend a mod for alternative kisses with AA, I have it. 😁
To me, the only bad endings for Astarion are those where he's dead, contolled, or forced into hiding because the pc couldn't be bothered to help him deal with his tormentor of the last century or two. That last one especially makes me mad because it implies that not one of his so-called friends attempted to find and help him before the epilogue party, the player included. Ascension is certainly his evil path but I do not see it as a bad ending by any means. For starters there are more benefits to helping him ascend then there aren't. That bonus necrotic damage is no joke and his ascendant bite attack and new misty form came in handy multiple times. Now to the characterization portion. My experience with Lord Astarion as my character's love interest was not any worse than it was while he was still a spawn, probably because my girl didn't antagonize him the first chance she got. It also helped that my roleplay for that character was one that fully accepted her new life as Astarion's bride. I even changed her appearance slightly to reflect that by giving her a new elegant hairstyle along with red eyes. The roleplay oppurtunities for this game is so varied everywhere else it seems except for where Astarion is concerned according to a certain portion of players. They act as though helping him Ascend is forbidden and anyone that does it is a horrible person despite the fact that the player can commit numerous other evil deeds in game without Astarion's involvment if they choose. My character was no goody-two-shoes saint that got corrupted by Astarion. She was always like that and only acted according to her own morals/beliefs. For example, she has a huge soft spot for children which was the sole reason she sided with the tieflings in act one. If there hadn't been any children among the refugees, she would have left them to their fates or sided with the goblins. She even tortured the prisoner in the goblin camp for fun before systematically clearing it. She was a bard/rogue and despite being a classy lady, she was not above causing a bit of mischief here and there which I decided was the main reason she and Astarion got on so well. I think I even managed to max out his approval by the time I left act one. Anyway, sorry for the long essay. I just wanted to make a point that how one roleplays their characters is what determines their individual experiences with the different routes they help lead the companions down.
I agree with you completely. I still can't understand why people are allowed to enjoy any ending, including the evil ones, or to romance Minthara, but are not allowed to enjoy a romance with AA. My character accepted Astarion as he is and did not try to fix him. I see him happy after ascension and my roleplay is about this. Of course, I used to leave him as a spawn too, it suited my other roleplays. But for me it was always emotionally difficult. The game gives us many opportunities to play different roleplays and it's amazing. By the way, I like your approach with changing the hairstyle and eye color, I also change the eye color of my character after turning into a vampire.😊
@@elainegoates9792 Well, those kids are vampire spawns, some people might RP characters that care about them, some might RP characters that don't. You can have a character that has a "soft spot for children" but still have exceptions.
Just yesterday I came across videо about how terrible it is that AA made Tav become a vampire, he himself went through it and knows how painful it is, etc... Are they trying to screw with their own eyes or what?.. They wrote nasty things about AA lovers again... It's scary to even go to the comments(
Yeah, better not share misinformation videos. If you can, edit the comment. 😊 But I get it, spawn-only fans are trying to make Astarion look terrible by making a montage of only negative responses from Tav to him. It's disgusting and frankly, it's not the AA fans who need help in this case, it's them. 😆
Painful? Tav dont even exactly remember his transformation. And we dont know is they even feel hunger. Because same as AA Tav dont have problems with sun, water and even mirrors. So, probably no hunger either. Seems AA was sure that he can extend his abilities to Tav. Also, at this point he kinda intoxicated by his power and cant think clearly.
@@yuttasparrow0private They play "Victim" and then try to sprinkle in how they are victims too and triggered by him responding accordingly to rude or "Toxic" dialogue options. Like, why would I slap on my Feminist Hat AFTER Ascension? Why would I be upset with him calling me "Pet" when he's been calling me "Pet names" since ACT 1? Righteous Indignation at its best! Just say you're mad you can't be a Consort if he stays a Spawn, just say you're not attracted to the more Dominant masculine version and more attracted to the Submissive feminine flirtatious (Masking) that spawn does to make you feel safe. When he Ascends he doesn't have to Make you feel safe because he's bound to you just like you're bound to him. Don't stray too far meaning you can become a target. You are his ONLY weakness. You also feed from him to maintain your immunity to the Sun and Mephistopheles Blessings. I'm willing to share ALL of this with you. What's that, if not love? He shows with action instead of words. This is a gift, I won't forget it. Fast forward: Are you ready to join me, to accept this immortal gift? Evil doesn't mean incapable of Love towards anyone. The most corrupt people in everyday life have someone that loves them. From Politicians, Entertainers, to the management that nitpicks and gets on your nerves at work has someone they Love.
I know the video that you’re talking about. Some of the commenters were very condescending. There were also comments acting like it’s a fact that the PC was not turned into a vampire spouse. If someone wants to headcanon that they’re a regular spawn, then fine, just like it’s fine to headcanon that they’re a spouse. Neither were officially confirmed nor denied, and that’s the point, which is so that we get to determine what happened in our own game. Although, while it could be a mess up, it’s actually proven based on game mechanics and lore that was already established in the game that you’re not a regular spawn, because even after the tadpole is removed, Astarion allows you to bite him during the epilogue party. Even if it turned out that he lied about giving the PC blood when turning them (which it wouldn’t make sense to lie about that), the PC can still drink his blood and gets the happy status effect while he gets the bloodless effect, making them in fact either a true vampire based on what Astarion says early on in Act 1, or they didn’t change since they were already a spouse. Since their powers don’t change, then it leans more toward them having already been a spouse, or again just a mess up with the game developers. Astarion Act 1 answer about how to become a vampire: “It’s simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you’ve done that, you’re free and a true vampire.” PC: “So they bite you, you bite them?” Astarion: “Yes and no. The problem is once you’re a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them.”
Я влюблена, девочки, ах❤❤❤ аа лучший выбор для него. Ну как можно обречь любимого на скитание в темном подземелье с тысячью левых неадекватных вампиров(мы видели его «семью», они поехавшие), а потом тупо умереть и пусть живет дальше в этом аду? Ну он хочет власть!!! Ну пусть правит, он не казадор, он милашка с маленькими фетишами, очень даже сексуально. Ну назвал зверушкой, ну встали на коленки, все бляха, монстр. А если нравится и заводит людей такое, то что??? По сути больше он ниче такое и не сделал шибко
He got his power from a devil and a "profane" ritual. Of course he's gonna be kind of a d*ck, but yeah he's definitely not another Cazador. First thing he did on their first night together was give Tav his blood, and he actively want her to drink his blood. He knows full well what this means and I believe he has every intention of making her a true vampire. If you peer into his thoughts before he turns you, he thinks you're disrespecting yourself by being with him. All that power and he still doesn't think he's good enough for Tav
Him telling the player they'll drink from him is one of the reasons why I like to go by the Bride theory (the way your character is turned is the main reason).
@@TrancerDesigns "Consort" is a title for a monarch's spouse, so I'll definitely agree with the spouse/vampire bride theory. He might be "evil" but he never thinks about leaving Tav. He has all that power and almost immediately shares it with her like it was never a question
yep I understood it like this too. Astarions whole character is also much "show don't tell" most of the time and many people don't understand this anymore because it gets lost in most medias. So they just understand what is writtten in an dialog option or written in a book but dont read between the lines or watch what the character literally does or doesn't do. I also think every small bubble in the internet is often much to quick to claim a character for their own. (for example a bubble of gay people says he is not for women because he "must" be gay or something, or a bubble of abused people say they are the only ones who can relate to him because no one knows him as good as they do). The internet is really an annoying place...
Dude I laugh every single time AA haters go "He's Cazador 2.0!!!!!" 🤣 If he was, then that would mean he would be twice as evil and wicked than what Cazador was and what he did to him. He loves Tav even though his confidence boosts up to 2000% when you ascend him. "Yes, my treasure? 😌♥"
@@allisoncampbell1631 AA haters dont see empathy here. Thay see "someone dared to touch my property". I dont understand how... but i saw such thing not once. Also they sure AA anger on Tav here. He didnt say anything mean, rude or blaming (even if all this situation result of Tav's stupid decision), but they think he anger on Tav...
Сами Лариан когда-то заявили, что АА не Касадор 2.0!!! Я тоже устала от всего дерьм@ в сторону Вознесенного Лорда! Как вообще можно считать концову "отродья" лучшим исходом?! - это же УЖАСНО!! Кто это придумал, вообще🤦♀️ для детей делалось, что ли? "Вознесение" ЛУЧШИЙ ИСХОД ДЛЯ АСТАРИОНА!!!!!! ✊✊🦇💜✨💜✨💜✨💜✨💜✨
AA positivity is awesome to see. For too long we've been trampled on, called horrible things, told horrible things. If you aren't down for the dark fantasy that's fine, but don't beat those of us who love AA with a dead Beholder.... Let us love who we love, and simply accept that. 😊
Okay... This actually makes me like Ascended Astarion more than I used to... But I don't know... Maybe it's wrong but I like the bulnersbility of spawn Astarion. Also I really just can't kill so many spawns just to make him happy. And I don't like when he as AA tries to act like some kind of dom thing... It's weird... But he doesn't really seem as bad as I thought anymore. I kinda want to hug him too....😳
Honestly, I had my doubts at first when I was doing my first AA run but ended up enjoying it a lot more. It really isn't as scary/bad as people claim. That said, it's absolutely not for everyone and that's OK! Both paths are equally valid and you can easily have a positive/happy RP with either version, it just all comes down to player preference :D
@@KuroPhina I juts really don't want to kill all the poor spawns that have already been suffering for so long.... and the Dom bs pisses me off... I cant help it. But i feel like either Astarion really just needs a hug. Its still the same baby, ... just.. slightly more annoying in personal opinion... But i get the appeal of it.
@@ladygalakxia7502 That's absolutely understandable, the main thing is to have fun with the game. Evil choices definitely aren't for everyone, I struggled a lot at first with evil campaigns. ^^ And yeah, AA has a lot more confidence and does become more dominant which is definitely not going to be for everyone. By the way, I do recommend watching the clip on UA-cam of Neil describing the performance of AA and how it differs from spawn. They really aren't as different as people think, it really is just a matter of personal preference. :D
I agree about some suddenness and weirdness (perhaps because of this suddenness and the fact that the player is not prepared for it in any way, the player has to explain to himself and understand all this domination) of the behavior of the dominant Astarion, especially on the first playthrough. I had some complaints about Larian because of the fact that the game basically lacks any other roleplay, no matter what the player thinks about it. Tav and Astarion haven't had any conversation about it, and Astarion is absolutely sure that Tav likes it, there's a kind of “authorial arbitrariness” to it. Of course, it would have been better if Larian had made two lines - one for those who like D/s romance and a second line with classic romance. As a matter of fact, nowhere and in no way in the game is it possible to tell Astarion that Tav doesn't want to be a submissive, there are simply no such lines. For the sake of interest, you can just look at it not from your character's eyes, but from Astarion's eyes, seeing from the outside what lines and reactions are available to Tav, what Astarion hears and sees. In fact, the fact that Astarion acts like Dom, which the player may not like, is the romance author's decision, Astarion loves Tav, he needs their love first and foremost, dominance yes, he likes it, but it's secondary. I think if there was a matching roleplay for the player, then Astarion would have slightly different behavior as well, but we only have this story. Actually, this is the first time I've had this in a game, and I was not immediately able to understand this “theme”, perceive and start enjoying it, at first I saw this lack of roleplay as some kind of “blackmail” on the part of the script in the style of “well, kneel down, or else you will have Astarion will suffer from hunger and burn”. But as a result, on the contrary, I'd now like to thank Larian for pushing the boundaries of my perception. And whereas the first time I knelt before Astarion solely because “it was necessary” to prevent the tragedy where he remains a spawn forever, now I take real pleasure in this dynamic. I see it as caring for him, as an opportunity to make him feel special, as complete and unconditional acceptance and love. But of course, I completely understand why a lot of people don't like that dynamic at all. But if you do ever want to play with Ascended Astarion for the sake of interest, I highly recommend the mod “Nightingale's Lord Astarion - Ascended Astarion Alternative Romance” on the Nexus. This mod allows romantic kisses instead of those dominant kisses that are in the original game (as many as 12 different kisses, the author of the mod reworked the kisses of other companions for Astarion) + so necessary to him hugs.
Спасибо за прекрасное видео💓😻)))). В игре не один раз подтверждается, что Астарион поделился с Тав кровью. Астарион ради гг нарушил все правила вампиров-лордов, спрашивает её мнение, окружил её заботой и любовью. Много раз говорил, что любит, и доказал это. Для него гг - самое лучшее, конечно он никогда ей не навредит, человеку, который поверил ему и доверился. 🥰
@@ЛинаЛайн-ю1ч ну, некоторые с Вознесенным Астарионом видят только отыгрыш жертвы (попытка порвать отношения после уничтожения личинки демонстрирует "темную" сторону отношений). Непонятно зачем решившей стать вампиром, хотя там можно было отступить и до, и в процессе. И еще порвать до победы над мозгом. И почему- то они не видят другого пути.
Soooo… apparently I made need to make a new save before opening Cazador’s coffin and get me a loving Ascended Vampire Lord👀❤️🔥✨ I needed to see this because all I see is the cons about him. So I noticed spawn Astarion is silly sweet lover and Acended Astarion is seductive passionate lover. Me like✨
it all depends on what options you choose in response to him. All that is shown negative about him on the Internet is that he responds to the negativity that Tav says first. If Tav is not rude to him or reproaches him, but says loving responses, he responds to Tav with love in return 😊
I remember being unsure with AA at first due to what I read online but realised that he's very different in the game compared to what you see online. You have to pick negative dialogue options to get negative responses. Spawn or Ascended, it's still Astarion and he's not as different as people think.
Yes, please do the romance for yourself and form your own opinion. Even if you end up hating AA, try it for yourself. There's so much cherry picking in a lot of the anti AA videos.
Alot of what I've seen online b4 this was the dominant almost territorial side of Ascended Astarion. This does change my mind as far as Ascension is his bad ending but I still don't like the thought of sacrificing so many innocent ppl who deserve the same chance Astarion gets. It's times like these where i feel like I'm to empathetic and I dive a little to deep into the game lol
I remember feeling uncertain at first but changed my mind when I actually played with the ascension path. That said, evil playthroughs or choices aren't for everyone and that's OK ^^
@@Sp1tfire_5316 Yeah, I remember my first evil run and I had a few moments where it was difficult, for example betraying the grove. I think that's the hardest thing for me on evil runs. ^^
I understand you, I didn't want to “play for evil” in other RPG games before BG3 either, I liked to choose the “good” path much more, and in those worlds the “good” path was always much warmer, happier and more attractive than the “evil” one. I learned to get a high from the evil passage only thanks to BG3 (actually, thanks for the interesting experience too). And I was too sorry to kill the spawns in the ritual at first, it was the first time I went through “good”, and if it wasn't for my intuition that screamed that everything was bad, and the entry in my diary that “Astarion will remain a spawn forever”, I wouldn't have spoilered, I wouldn't have restarted and I would have had that horrible burning ending. But, even from an emotional standpoint, there's a very cruel price to pay for “good” here - seeing Astarion's tears, his depression, his sadness, the way he's forced to adapt to a “good” world, and the way that “good” world treats him as a result. There is no way to help Astarion in this case, only fantasy and headcanons. And in the case of the “evil” choice, all we'll actually see is a few characters we don't know much about exploded (Astarion's “family” treated him badly, by the way). And Astarion no longer feels the pain of hunger. Astarion has squared his shoulders. With Astarion, it's a lot of fun to run around sunny Baldur. True, after Ascension, I didn't get any evil roleplay the first time, I was too happy, the world was playing in all its colors again, I even set myself challenges like “save every single Gondian in the Foundry”, and on the first playthrough, I , to be honest, I didn't want to do any “evil”, on the contrary, in spite of the “right” roleplay of evil Tav, ready to do anything for the sake of “power”, it's much more fun to help everyone, to explore every corner of the world, the world becomes bright again and I want to treat it the same way. And a happy ending, a real victory, all is well. The adorable bat in the epilogue. And as a matter of fact, 7000 hungry vampire spawn let loose isn't such a “good thing” either. We're only shown poor Sebastian and the kids, but among those 7000 there are quite a few criminals (Astarion talks about this in one of the lines near the cages), those who will never be able or willing to control the hunger. There used to be a narrator's line about this as well, but it was removed in patch 5. Not all of the rescued spawns will go to the Underdark, quite a few of them will settle in the sewers and start hunting the citizens of Baldur. This is also someone's death, someone's tears and loss. A lot of hungry vampire spawns is not a good thing for a city, so even if Astarion is not considered at all, it will be more of a “gray” rather than a 100% “good” act. I think Astarion deserves much better than staying a spawn forever for the sake of it. And Stephen Rooney himself has said that Ascension isn't a “bad” ending for Astarion, it's his “evil” ending. Astarion is an inherently evil character, and in most classic RPGs, including BG1 and BG2, successfully completing an evil companion's quest is officially an “evil” act that does good for that companion and possibly bad for some NPC or some area, or some part of the game world in general. The “evil” ending for an “evil” character is the good ending for that character.
There are plenty of people that are in denial and try to project their morals or in a few cases their hurt over the fact that they couldn't fix a pixelated man the way they either tried to fix themselves or someone they were in a relationship with. Most of us who can see his characterization for what it is can see that Astarion is the same throughout and that when hes Ascended he's actually his most authentic. No more putting on a facade for the party. There's no discord over Sharran Shadowheart, God Gale, Ascended Lae'zel, Wyll who lets his father die to break his pact with Mizora (which why do we have to make that choice for him), or Karlach sucking down Soul Coins and the fact that she's actually no better than the rest even though she's treated like she's the least problematic (she's not). Folks become hypocritical to push their own preference to prove that they are right and you are wrong in what YOU like. It reminds me of High School cliques and the "Cool kids" telling you that because you like something they don't, you cant sit with them or enter the conversation. (Back to Astarion) After Ascension the only thing he does is speak in his normal tone and is actually blatantly honest with your character about his plans. The plans he's had since Act 1 and 2! Get his revenge by either just killing the bastard or taking his place and stealing the power he'd worked all that time to obtain. When he, Cazador, didn't do a thing. His Spawns brought all of the victims through compulsion and selling their bodies and to me personally the bill came due for Astarion to collect what was owed to him. There is no morally high choice to make concerning the other victims. Either they are free and kill innocent people along the way or get destroyed through the ritual, Astarion if you interrupt it, You if you're a Paladin and don't want to be an Oathbreaker, or simply because you don't feel it in your spirit to condemn 7k souls to hell. 7k souls who are blood starved Evil Aligned vampire spawn that you just met but have been romancing Astarion since he put the dagger to your neck. Now, you guve pause for people he told you he didn't give two sh*ts about and said his "siblings" were just as bad. Can you feel sympathy? Yes, but when it's all said and done...do you gaslight your lover or help him Ascend and gain the power to make him feel more secure. This is not to say that he cant be secure as a Spawn but he'll constantly hunger and his emotions will continue to be a mask. Being what you want to see instead of what he wants to see in himself. It calls back to him saying, "You've come so far only to slip now." People took what he said after breaking up with him as him being "Toxic" (I hate that term now) when he's expressing that he's actually hurt you're rejecting him now that he's feeling like his best self. Some people can't handle it when the person who caused the pain is THEM. They can't take accountability so they gaslight and project to make the person feel like they were the issue. Astarion is more blunt when he Ascends and doesn't care about anyone but his lover. Everyone else is subject to appropriate Vampire Lord etiquette. Does he see you as his precious possession? Yes. Does he become more dominant? Yes. You consent to it once you kneel, that this will be the dynamic. He taps more into his masculinity and the feminine flair and flirtatious mannerisms used to disarm cease because he doesn't have to anymore. You're it for him. He even tells Minthara that he's not giving his blood to anyone else. Period. That he has a love that trusts him completely and could care less about their opinions on the matter. The moral commentary from other party members are representing those on reality who have hypocritical views on lifestyles they aren't privy to and have no room to judge. Then, we get into the SA victims who only got louder when the kisses dropped...like why?! You pursue him and save scum to get his approval. Go through Ascension and now you clutch your pearls?! Now you're triggered?! I'm 40 years old and in a relationship. I'm a survivor NOT a victim and I don't play victim in my life or in my roleplaying games that are supposed to be an escape! Most of those who bring up "Real Life Astarion" experiences haven't really dealt with one and are "Hive minds" mimicking buzz words and followers. Let's just call them the true Illithids. The Mindflayers and the Elder Brains who run the pages spouting insulting comments about those of us who just want to enjoy our Consort status in Peace.😅 (Kitty I may just leave the story as is because every time I get settled to finish it I get writer's block) I see the scene perfectly but the descriptive words are jumbled like Scrabble. 😅😩 (Thank you as always for your content!)❤
@@raelaurenmccoy803 Wow, thanks for writing this. I completely agree with everything. You just nailed it. You are amazing. ❤️ Let your story, which you wrote before, remain as it is. There will be a lot of room for imagination. 🤭❤️❤️❤️
@iamkittybg3 ❤️❤️❤️❤️ 🥹🤗🤓 That's what my partner said 😂 He told me to stop stressing and that it was good as is... meanwhile me: INTELLIGENCE (Writing) 🎲 ✔️ 😩🤔😮💨✍🏽🗒️🚫 ( 1 )
Don't worry, everything is fine.🤗 That story was so great that it will be remembered as a legendary story. And maybe in a thousand years, descendants will find this comment and make a movie about it.😁❤️
@@iamkittybg3 😂 One can only dream! Also, (Activate CAPS)... YOU ARE AWESOME and The image you chose for this video is a chef's kiss! 🤌🏽 "Ask me anything and it will be yours."
Oh i think some people are ready to tell you re wrong 😂. ❤ I for myself always think is it not better for him no longer got this hunger now? 😮 but perhaps I m idiot 😅
Wonderful video. I prefer AA over SA any day. I always thought keeping him a spawn in a romance was in a way selfish. You keep the upper hand in the relationship. Remaining a spawn he still seems afraid of Tav leaving him. He loses his bite so to speak and is all of a sudden a good aligned hero just for tav. As AA all that theatrical behavior is gone and he is his true self. People seem to forget that he was always evil aligned and trying to change him to be this defanged lover boy without agency is tragic. Mortal Tav will die and leave SA in the dark. It’s the old question of ethics. Would you save a thousand strangers over your love or not. I feel that the fandom in general hates giving the male characters agency over their own wants and needs to make them their perfect boyfriends, only doing what Tav wants from them and giving up their goals. It’s the same with god Gale. Why talk him out of his desire? Because he’s too independent of Tav and could decide to leave? I rather have a romance where I know this person is with me because they truly want to, not because they have to out of fear to be abandoned. Sorry for the rant, I’m just getting tired of all the AA and god Gale haters because “ men with agency won’t love me unconditionally” mindset. What always makes me chuckle is the outrage over Astarion not wanting to be with mindflayer Tav. Who would want to be with a deformed soulless creature
I also don't get all the hate in the direction of God Gale. Doing mu second run as Durge and planning to ascend Astarion this time, I also would like to do a fourth run for Gale as sourcerer Tav, enjoy "idiots to lovers trope" and help him become a God. Why the hell not? I've spoilered it for me and Gale also is over the moon and only happy to share godhood with his beloved. He's not alone on the Olymp, Tav/Durge is with him. The general hate of giving characters ultimate powers... I've thought about it a lot, and it's somehow dragging from the 90's. I remember myself as a childe thinking it bad "just because" while watching the movies or playing some games. After I grew up I see that more aa a real gamechanger, a turning point, a neutral, an ultimate zero, for which a price shall be payed, because this is how things work, but if it'll be for good or for bad, only time will tell. Aahhh, gotta play my second BG3 run to the end somehow❤
@@iamkittybg3 I’ve been watching your videos for a long while now and love the light you shine on AA. I also read all the comments arguing against AA, how he loses his soul and doesn’t love Tav and calls her pet. It’s annoying because they don’t seem to pay attention to how the ritual works. He doesn’t loose his soul. He gains immense powers, he lives again with all the appetites of the living and being able to walk in the sun again. He can comfortably be himself. Why wouldn’t Tav want that for her/his man? And “pet” is an old affectionate term people call their love, not something degrading. I think people love living out a status quo of a, in their eyes, equal relationship with balanced power dynamics. But Astarion is a damaged person who clings to the first person in 200 years to show him kindness. He doesn’t think he deserves it either. He’s surprised you want him at all. That’s not an equal relationship. He trusts Tav, then why would Tav not show him trust in return by helping him? I think it’s a huge betrayal to deny him the chance of a lifetime. It’s a gamble for sure, especially from an rpg perspective. It’s a new relationship brought on by chance. To me it makes sense to ascend him . Especially being in a romance with him. The world is about to be devoured. Having an all powerful vampire lord at your side can only help. Releasing 7000 starved and abused vampire spawns to run amok in the under dark is madness and creates even more chaos. Killing them without making use of ascension in such dire circumstances doesn’t make sense at all either to me. Ascension is the only choice that makes sense at that point. Ascending Astarion is definitely the lesser evil of all options with the mindflayers knocking on people’s doors.
@@claudiawright2382 Sometimes I think that haters can come up with anything to blame AA for something again. All these arguments they give are very strange and sometimes it does not exist in the game. So in most cases I immediately understand that these people never ascend him by themselves.xD
@ It’s definitely weird. The players that romance Astarion but also say that if you ascend him he becomes Cazador 2.0 have a strange mindset imo. They actively pursue a character that they think in his true essence is a rapist/torturer if you give him power. Let that sink in. So it’s a conscious choice to romance someone that they think is reprehensible, but keeping him leashed to them like a dangerous dog is ok. I wonder why. Is it because they don’t truly immerse themselves in the game and think that Astarion is simply a cute vampire elf that satisfies a kind of “taming” desire if you keep him as a spawn? Then why go off the rails when people ascend him? You brought something interesting up. How certain players come up with all kinds of strange half made up reasons why AA is bad and how they almost go on a warpath against fans of AA. I think it makes them feel better, either because some people just love feeling superior to others with their 21st century moral standards. Which again shows lack of immersion into a “medieval” themed game. Or maybe because deep down they feel uneasy with SA as well, but also think ascending him changes the power dynamic between him and Tav in his favor too much. He could leave if he wanted to and still live a fulfilling life without Tav. That might be a fear for some in their real life in general. So having a love interest who would never leave you, “changes” his views for “love”, would always be soft spoken and kind even if he breaks up with mindflayer Tav, might be appealing wish fulfillment for many people. I get it. The anger for ascending him I don’t understand at all. They hate the seriousness of a goal driven AA. But love the fake theatrical behavior SA puts on out of fear. His true self shines through from time to time but is ultimately crushed after killing cazador without ascension. He’s definitely relieved he’s dead and it shows, but he knows there is always a new threat stronger than him. As a spawn, even free, he has a target put on his back by all kinds of people. The gur, monster hunters like Wyll, other vampire lords/spawns etc. He still feels helpless and afraid. It might be dampened within the group and with Tav, but the constant fear remains. He can’t relax just because of what he is. That fear will probably heighten with time as the crew goes back to attend to their own lives. And how is a relationship between SA and mortal Tav really going to unfold? There will be constant true threats, and that is poison for any relationship. So is his weakness to the sun. Tav will get old and die. SA will start to resent her/him. I don’t see a Happy End for that dynamic at all. It’s sad.
Cazador knew about the ritual when he created his spawn. I wonder how Cazador would have been towards his own bride, if he had taken one. He didn’t make any of his spawn brides, and presumably he would have taken one when he ascended. It would be interesting to see if there would have been any closer correlations between Ascended Astarion and Cazador in this regard. This was a really great edit, enjoyed watching. 😊
@@saturiadracarys1351 I have a personal theory that Cazador intended to make Lady Incognita his bride, but she refused. Or rather, I believe that the ritual was performed, but she then protested and locked herself in the attic. But there is little history in the books in Cazador's palace to support this. But it would be funny if that were the case. 😅
@@saturiadracarys1351 On the other hand, I have now reread the books about Lady Incognita and my theory is very poor. Most likely, she was simply turned. But I would like to have more information and history about her. On the first playthrough, I was sure that I would find her ^^
@@iamkittybg3 wasn't she his 13 year old niece or am I confusing her with someone else? She is the one who left all those books and letters right? Mind you, the way she wrote 'Uncle' makes me think he might have been a family friend instead. And she was maybe promised to him as bride perhaps? bg3.wiki/wiki/Alturiak_1477 They wanted to add her, at least I heard they were but it was all cut. There was also supposed to be some sort of puzzle in the Cazador Palace with those hanging cages.
@@Nakumiya Yes, you're right, she was 13 when she was turned into a vampire and calls him "uncle" in her letters/books. I know a lot of Сazador content was cut, including the vampire coven. I couldn't find much information about her other than the books in the palace, so it was fun to speculate on that. On the other hand, Сazador probably wouldn't want to share his power with anyone, so my theory is highly questionable.😂😅
Well, you don't have to be LIKE a certain horrible person to be a horrible person. Sending 7000 souls into hells is enough for me, I don't even need Cazador haha
Seems you forget that it WE who let him do this and help him. So, if your Tav do this - he/she is same evil as AA. If your Tav help AA and then blame him for this sacrifice - then your Tav just fking hypocrite.
@@DepressionOfMyCatok, just do not ascend him :) Most of my romance astarion playthroughts not "good", most of them with Durge "fk all this, i just want to live free of this baal shit). Even if i didnt do all evil things.
God, why are his eyes so extra pretty in the thumbnail? 😍🥰 You are unfairly good at this! Also, the video is as amazing as always. I love your editing style
Actually, AA not even so evil. What so evil the do? Make useful acquaintances? Kill some peoples that interfere him? Like any leader of shadow organisation don't do same. He use his power not as Vampiric Lord, more like human (well, no good and power hungry) do.
Damn seven thousand innocents to the hells for personal gain? He isn't Cazador, and he truly does love Tav, but he is definitely evil. He's just not the type of evil people claim. His relationship with Tav can occasionally get codependent, but not abusive. At least on his side. Unfortunately, players can hurt my poor fangboy.
I didnt get one thing. After brain defeated AA didnt let break with him. Like "now tadpole gone, your life is mine to decide" but if you broke with him before brain... tadpole gone, and you still his "spawn", so he can all the same. So why? Because he actually cant do anything with his "spawn" aside from manipulation and deceiving?
I broke up with AA before beating the brain and he becomes just a non-romance companion with high approval. After that he tells Tav "ah, my favorite travel companion". After beating the brain there is no romance scene in the epilogue and you meet at Withers' party as friends.
@@iamkittybg3 he don't answer question "can you compell me". " why i need to" isn't answer :) Also he did nothing when Tav run away in hell. He just pretend that he let this. So i'm pretty sure he cant compel. But he tries hard to convince us otherwise.
I like taking over the world with Bae 😍 but yeah, masters don't have to manipulate their slaves so... Tav/Durge is not his slave. How do you get that last prediction from Echo of Amelyssan?
You could write all of his "sweetness" up to manipulation, or even the honeymoon phase. Remember that even Cazador was a victim at first, and he maybe even enjoyed his time with his master, but that changed. Who's to say he won't, with time?
@@iamkittybg3 I'm not trying to say that he WILL become Cazador. I'm just saying he's his own kind of evil. Just because he shows kindness to one person doesn't make him a saint.
@@Nanien_ Nobody is saying he's a saint, people who enjoy AA are aware that it's his evil path, it's part of the reason a lot of people enjoy it. Some people like evil characters. It's a roleplaying game, there's no "singular" interpretation and what happens after the events of the game comes down to each individual player and what they want for their story. If people want to roleplay being abused then by all means, go for it. There's different ways you can RP a story with AA, same as there's different ways you can RP one with spawn and any other character.
@@Yaguarundi And AA is against it? Astarion potentially becomes Chaotic Neutral, or possibly Chaotic Good (which is less likely), but AA is definitely Chaotic Evil. Yes, Astarion never gives up his passion for killing, but neither does AA. I just think AA is a worse Astarion. It's my opinion. I'm not trying to convert anyone's views - if you prefer AA, that's totally fine. I was only expressing how I felt.
I see you are an expert on Astarion, tell me if my character's eyes will turn red when Astarion changes me? And what about the transformation into a half illithid because black eyes cannot be changed
@@iamkittybg3 No? The question remains why then tav.durge don't have red eyes when they become vampires... too bad, it kind of weakens my desire to become a vampire but thanks anyway :P
@@Asoeee I was answering about the eyes.😅 Act 3 was done by Larian in a hurry and they didn't add the character's appearance change after turning into a vampire. 😭
I don't like AA, but he isn't Cazador 2.0. He is new kind of vampire. I suppose he lost his soul after dark ritual and it changed his personality. But still he is evil in his own way. 🤔 To be honest SA isn't angel too.
Him losing his soul is just fanon, nothing in canon states that he lost his soul. Also "changed his personality", based on what Neil said, ascension is Astarion with the "mask off", him at his most terrible. It's just seeing a side to Astarion that has always been there. I agree that spawn isn't an angel, Astarion is a very complex character and he doesn't magically become "good" just by rejecting the ritual. You can find clips on UA-cam of Neil Newbon describing the ascended version of his character, it's really interesting ^^
He doesn't give his soul to anyone. He says it metaphorically when he remains a spawn, Karlach in the dialogue also says it metaphorically. He replaced himself with Cazador in the ritual and gave Cazador's soul instead of his own. In addition, if we look at the other companions, for example Wyll, who sold his soul to Zariel to save his father: his soul is with him until his death and only then goes to the devil. This is how DND works: it is impossible to immediately give up your soul and be soulless, the soul goes to the devil under a contract after the owner’s death. But again, Astarion did not promise his soul to anyone. After the ritual, he says that the deal with Mephistopheles is done and closed and he does not owe him anything. I wanted to clarify this because fanon about this confuses people 😌 And I agree that spawn is not an angel either 🙃
Really well put together, ascended Astarion is not Cazador 2.0. Yes, the two characters DO have similarities but that's because they're both vampire lords. Just as they have similarities, they also have major differences.
Thank you 😊 I hope my video will help someone understand the difference 😁
@@iamkittybg3
Honestly it does make me realize that Astarion is not Cazador 1 to 1.
He still took his place in more ways than just the ritual, though. He took his place as the abuser, cycle of abuse and all that. That especially shows at the "we" part. He does say "we" and "ours" but he drops that the second you go against him. He went paranoid, and when you read his thoughts, even he doesn't like what he's become.
This all makes me a huge hypocrite though, I'm a sucker for Ascended Astarion.
(Well, Astarion in general, really)
@@fatalos6855 "Cycle of abuse"
Whilst there's different ways to interpret the stories, I see it differently. Spawn talks about saving him from the cycle of POWER and TERROR, which I read as something very differently. Ascending is becoming a vampire lord, a type of vampire that are known to be evil and want to obtain lots of power and control. This doesn't mean he's going to become an abuser towards his consort.
Also the only instance I can think of where he "drops" it is during the denied break-up.
When you talk about reading his thoughts, do you mean during the rom scene? Or another scene?
@@KuroPhina
I think it's the rom scene? I might be wrong though
That's definitely a cool interpretation of AA though! I have to admit, the denied breakup scene kinda breaks the deal for me as far as non-toxic interpretations go, but I get where you're coming from now
Don't break up with him and the relationship won't be toxic xD
I have to say my favorite part was the inclusion of the “We. Did it” line, a nice little reminder that Tav has to proactively participate in helping him ascend sooooooo
@@Dhamphiric_Dragon This is very important line to me. ❤️ I have never understood why some people forget this.
That's honestly one of the only things I dislike about the Ascension route. It's riddled with bad, preachy writing for the sake of making Astarion seem worse than he actually is.
@@britt6184 not necessarily I mean the way I see it is Tav in this moment is declaring themselves as Astarion’s ride or d!e, that they’ll have his back and stay at his side no matter what personally what I think happens a lot of the time is the anti-AA crowd will often take things out of context and make videos about it to make him seem worse than he is rather than it being the writing itself
People keep forgetting that part. I hear some whining "But he was mean to my Tav when she mentioned she wasn't happy HE sacrificing those 7k souls." Of course he gets angry. By projecting his runes into his mind you told him you are okay with the ritual, that you are supporting him with this. And you have to help him, he literally has no way to do the ritual on his own. It's not like he can grab a mirror.
I'd get mad too if my partner suddenly got preachy after all that.
@@britt6184 Agreed. One person with an agenda came into the AA romance to try to preach to grown adults as to why liking AA is bad. It's incredibly disingenuous and unprofessional. Let us have fun with our pixel man!
The way Astarion loves and compliments Tav/Durge suggests he truly cares for them deeply. In a similar way its like Dracula and Lisa from Castlevainia.
@@minashepard1255 absolutely agree 💯❤️
@@minashepard1255 I fully agree with this! I'd like to think his powers are like that of Vlad (Dracula) now that he's Ascended. He's the Lord above Lords. Depending on how your Tav/Durge's personality is...
You can be a Consort like Lisa at his side keeping him calm and friendly or you can be a Consort like Camilla feeding into his darker and more sinister nature. OR be a mixture of both because let's face it, if his Consort tells him what she wants (Anything) including a life taken...then he will do it for her without question. Dracula wanted to end everything as well as himself when they took Lisa from him. Astarion would dang near turn into a worse version of Ketheric and curse all of Baldur's Gate. 😅
I loveeee the excitement in his voice when he says "We have a beautiful bloody future to look forward to my love"
At this moment he is happy and ready to do anything with Tav.😊
I loved that too! I giggled seeing the excitement.
Another well done video. People will try to spin this to fit their own narrative, but there's plenty of evidence to show that while Ascended Astarion is evil, he isn't Cazador 2.0.
@@TrancerDesigns thank you ❤️ It's 100% his evil path, but that doesn't mean he's exactly the same as his former master.
@@iamkittybg3 Exactly. Evil doesn't mean incapable of loving someone.
@@TrancerDesigns Spike and Drusilla from Buffy were also insanely evil when they arrived in Sunnydale in season 2 and yet they've been in madly love for 200 years or so at that time.
Oh, I like this! I freely admit I usually have him stay a spawn, but I am gearing up to do do an Ascended run! I don't see him as purely evil, the power of an Ascended Vampire makes him so different to everyone around him that he has trouble feeling any empathy. He certainly has the potential to become far more evil, but that's what makes his love for Tav so important. It grounds him, softens him.
Cazador was all about control, for him power meant he could control anyone and anything, raise himself above the rest of the world. Astarion does have some of that, but with Tav by his side he's far more focused on using his power to keep them both safe, and giving his beloved Tav everything they could possibly want.
He has a dialogue option very early on when he's explaining exactly what a spawn is, where he tells you how a 'true' vampire is made. He's very adamant that no vampire would create another because all they're doing is giving themselves a rival. They're viciously territorial and absolutely will not suffer another vampire encroaching on them. Ascended Astarion loves Tav so much that he breaks that rule completely. He's not only willing, but enthusiastic about turning Tav. Their bond is unheard of among vampires, and I love that. Even ascending can't drive them apart. ❤
@@entorienscriber8049well, to be honest, Tav will never be AA equal in terms of power. So Astarion didnt break this rule. He is Ascended Vampire, one of his kind. Tav more like regular vampire with some features from his creator (like, sun protection, mirror reflection) but without his power. (but he still break rule about "power in solitude")
love this!! people tend to claim that he's just manipulating tav when he says he loves them, but things like the mindflayer clip and the prophecy literally prove otherwise
@@undersnails thank you 🙏☺️
I don't think he manipulates Tav because it doesn't make sense. He turned Tav, he didn't need to manipulate Tav anymore. I think he's being sincere. 😊
Каждый раз, когда я с облегчением думаю, что вышла из фазы "дышать ради него", мне попадаются такие видео. Это нечестно😭🛐
This is the only channel who sees more to what Ascended Astarion is, I noticed the "WE" "OURS" and he firstly says "YOURS" before himself when I Ascended him for the first time really nice detail.
He sees you as his equal by extension his powers too which is rare considering the Velliloth text states the vampire life is meant to be alone and are they also very competitive.
My preference is AA cuz I just want him to experience life again without the tadpole, I want him to see his reflection again and bask under the sun. He deserves the world~
@@nyxaria8557 Thank you. 🙏❤️
Yes, he also broke all the rules of Velioth by sharing his power with Tav 😊
@@iamkittybg3 6:37
If she's right, both Tav and Astarion may be the oldest vampires in the realms. That I find most exciting! Seeing as we can find a list of several previous vampire lords, and they don't tend to last more than 2 or 3 centuries at most. But Tav and Astarion.... 'thousands' of year. That's powerful longevity.
@@MizuMing That would be cool. Well, at least in my headcanon it is.😁
Absolutely agree! Astarion deserves the world, deserves to never suffer from hunger again (only after Ascension Astarion is free from this feeling: “I... I can't feel it. That ache in my stomach, that hunger - it's gone"), deserves to feel alive again! Deserves sunshine, not eternity in darkness. I was touched to the core at one time by the moment of how greedily he greets the dawn in the scene after his first night with him. And such a high, in the “Ascended” scene on the docks, in the sunshine! When I went through it the first time, the contrast from the previously seen videos of the scene on the docks with UA, is just a special treat (like when you know something bad could happen, but it never will).
I prefer the route for the same reason: for him to be in sun, not feel hunger, feel alive, NOT clumsily running away to find shelter after the tadpole is officially gone.
I agree with you Kitty! AA gets so much hate/misunderstanding!
Thank you for sharing this ❤ I will always have a place in my heart for Ascended Astarion
❤
Not gonna swoon not gonna swoon "I wish we could spend a decade in each others arms." .... *drops* ❤❤❤❤❤
😄❤️❤️❤️
@iamkittybg3 *gets up* I'm okay yep "Yes my treasure?" *500d20 brain error damage* 🥵🥵🥵🥵
@@celticlionsaaaaaaaame😂 I am weak for the pixel man!!
i absolutely LOVE the way he puts you first in the sentence, and it's always a "WE"
Yeah, there's a lot of "we, us, ours" in the dialogues, one of his lines is even "YOURS and MINE", putting "yours" first. I see the AA romance as two powerful vampires ruling together ^^
I always play characters that wanna rule the world just as much as he does and I love playing it that way I’ve always believed he never was Casador anyway
Fuck yes girl, keep fighting against all the AA slander ❤💕💖 Great video. Also holy shit I really hope the mod of the exposed-chest clothes comes to console soon because I need it more than air lmao
@@crosbym.8925 thank you 😁❤️
Great vid, much needed AA appretiation! He's definitely not Cazador, he's loving, protecting, changes plans for his beloved, never hurta Tav/Durge, and telling him off right away after he's done nothing but the ritual is ridiculous. I wish we'd have more options of talking to him about the ritual itself, if he reflects about it, because the only really bad thing about Ascension is sending 7000 souls to Avernus for eternal sufferings after they suffered for 200 years already. This is a dire price to pay, but realistically it's either that or just killing them. The ending where they are released and everything is fine after they were hungry for 200 (!) years straight, when we are told that Astarion was "robbed of speach and reason" from severe hunger and wishing only for death for months after being sealed in a tomb for only 1 year, is too peachy and unrealistic (and we're talking about fantasy), at least for me and based on the information we get from a character of the BG3 world.
Still even this detail with cruel ritual makes the whole story so... good, jucy, really dark. You cannot really walk out of it whistling and in white gloves, you'll have to make a decision, and it will affect somebody. As it was already mentioned here, it's really an eternal question, will you choose 7000 strangers, of your beloved, concidering you either will make 7000 stranger suffer or destroy your lovers dreams. And I'm glad about the possibility to look at all the outcomes.
Thank you❤😊
The decision of what to do with 7000 spawns does not seem to have good solutions. My Tav/Durge thinks that it is not worth releasing them, because they are hungry and maddened spawns that will eat thousands of truly innocent people. Are these spawns innocent? We only know that they are vagrants, swindlers and idiots according to Astarion, whom he found in the flophouses. The fact that one of the 7000 thousand was able to talk to us does not mean that they can all resist hunger and are not mad. Even Sebastian seems mad to me, from the wrong answer from Tav he can start screaming and cursing us. My Tav is more important to save the lives of truly innocent people, and not to rejoice at Sebastian's letter at the end of the game. (I don't like Sebastian, sorry😅) In which he writes exactly about how many people they ate on the way to the Underdark. Not in the Underdark itself, but only on the way. Many believe that there is no pity for anyone in the Underdark, but there are also creatures there that have done nothing wrong and want to live, and not be eaten by spawns. For example, deep gnomes, drow, Omellum, and so on. Many creatures live in the Underdark and they are not all monsters. And no, 7000 spawns don't deserve a second chance like Astarion, because Astarion has proven to us throughout our entire journey that he deserves a second chance, but they don't. 7000 spawns are already spawns, which according to dnd puts them in the evil category. Perhaps, even when Astarion remains a spawn and we kill them out of mercy, their souls still go to Hell. Therefore, I do not see much of a difference and do not think that sending them to Mephistopheles is a much worse option.
This is my vision and interpretation, you may not agree with it, but this is how I see it. 😁
@iamkittybg3 wow, that's an interesting vision, thatnks for sharing! Yeah, actually Astarion did said himself, he chose people of low social layer and really bad background, and it's logical, the lower the level, the less questions will be asked (I guess, other Spawns went along the same plan, they are not stupid). Somehow I've forgotten that being a victim in one case doesn't make you innocent in another one, and there might have been not the best people there who'd deserve to go to Hell.
It's just that among the scoundrels there might be some good or at least sort of sane souls, even "fools" are not meant to be evil, just trusting enough to get into a trap (well, yeah, like Sebastian, I don't dislike and am compassionate with the guy 😅, or the Gur kids, or the other six Spawns, but about these guys we don't know much), and they are the victims here. I see this situation like pouring water with the baby in it, and you can't escape it. Drama as it is, but a decision still has to be made. I myself haven't spare them, as I don't see letting them walk around as a safe option and I fully agree here with you, it is dangerous. Hm, and there's really even more at stake than your lover and 7007 souls, as you say, other people and creatures also want to live and not be eaten by Spawns. Even the monsters of the Underdark. As the Underdark is existing as it is, it means it has it's own unique ecosystem, and the monsters are an important part in its ecosystem, and if such an invasive kind like Spawn will come there and eat the monsters (and the Spawns will eat a lot), the super resilient and agressive ecosystem might just break down at some point, and there will be even more deaths, not only by Spawns fangs, but through famine, because the Drow will suddenly see that there's nothing to hunt for, the Dwergars and Deep Gnomes will lose there cattle of Deep Rote, or the monsters will migrate to safer areas, where the Mykonides live and kill eachother for territory. Wow...
Gods, I love this game, just this one story of a our pixel vampire gives you so much to think about!
P.S. I'm now very-very interested in the contents of Sebatians letter 😅 Agressive SA simps mention only the newspaper where it's said that Spawns didn't hurt anybody, but not this letter.
There is no newspaper about spawns, only Sebastian's letter in the epilogue. Yes, he thanks for the second chance, but at the same time frankly informs us that while the spawns were going to the Underdark, many died, many missed, many aggressively attacked the first people they met. No, this is definitely not the best outcome for me.😅 Besides, for my Tav/Durge, the most important thing is love and her beloved, so she doesn't care about the fate of other spawns, she is happy to help Astarion in ascension 😁❤️
@@juliabe408 "After so long in a vampire's cell, I'd almost forgotten how to write. Never mind what to write. But what can you say to the person who unlocked your cage and gave you your life back? Or gave us some kind of life, at least.
After you killed Cazador and opened our cells, we fled into the Underdark. There were thousands of us - a ravenous wave, mad with freedom and out for blood. And Gods, did we find blood.
We swarmed every monster and unfortunate in our path, drinking what we could. We lost hundreds along the way - some to beasts, but most just disappeared into the dark.
It wasn't easy, but eventually Cazador's house spawn calmed us and took control. They found some old ruins we could call home and we've been there ever since, building new lives for ourselves.
We're not free down here, the dark will chain us forever, but we aren't the prisoners we once were either. And that's thanks to you. You looked in our cages and saw people, not monsters. And here, down in the shadows, we're trying to live up to that.
Thank you, now and forever,
- Sebastian"
^^ Letter from Sebastian when you release the spawns. I haven't released them before though, not even on my spawn run.
@@KuroPhina thank you very much, that's super insightful! 🥲🖤 Gods, I love this game and this uneasy feeling you get in this particular story with either choice or another. There are always losses, no matter the case, some paths are just destined to be paved with corpses.
But well, what is a good vampire story without a drama or tragedy in it?
Китти, вы просто сокровище! Так надоело, что большинство привыкли поливать грязью АА. Мне кажется здесь действует тот же принцип, что и в жизни: "If you can't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best". Легко придумать, что ты переделал любимого человека и все в порядке. Но возможно ты просто с самого начала не пытался увидеть его настоящим, таким, какой он есть. SA и AA - это одна и та же личность. Невозможно обожать одного и ненавидеть другого.
@@serpent_seed Спасибо, мне очень приятно читать такие комментарии ❤️ и я полностью с вами согласна: SA или AA - он все тот же Астарион. Мне тоже так надоел весь хейт вокруг AA, это просто невозможно читать/смотреть.
@@iamkittybg3 И да, постоянно забываю сказать - у вас потрясающая Тав/Дурж. Глаз не отвести! 🤩
@@serpent_seed ой спасибо ☺️❤️
Я понимаю, что люди могут быть недовольны тем, что Вознесенный Астарион хочет не просто быть с Тавом, а владеть им, но отрицать что это тот же самый Астарион - крайне странно. Да он буквально грезит властью и возможностями которые может дать вознесение.
Кстати, ненавистники AA очень любят припоминать что при попытке разорвать отношения AA говорит что "твое будущее теперь принадлежит мне", но не припоминают, что SA в этой ситуации угрожает 7000 голодных отродий. Интересно, что было бы если б SA дали инструмент чтобы привязать Тава, а?
@@Yaguarundi Так мы видим что - Аст с возможностью привязать Тава это и есть вознесенный))) Люди просто отказываются признавать, что это всё тот же человек, просто в разных обстоятельствах
Just realize that i ascended him in 3 of 5 my romances. And one of non-ascended game abandoned because good aligment Tav just doesnt fit any Astarion (feel like i must control his bad side, and it feels wrong).
@6:36 don't you threaten me with a good time! 😁
They are only similar in the sense they are both Vampire Lords lol love me some positive AA content, thank you queen❤❤ it was also a nice compilation of my fav AA phrases so win win for meeeeee
@@jayah1114 thank you, thank you 😊❤️
AHHHHHH!!!! He makes me FLARE UP BLUSHING 🥰🥴 & his laugh is the CUTEST thing ever!!! Gosh, I love it when he’s so happy
I dont agree fully to AA but loving Astarion means loving all of him which includes the evil, the bad and the ugly. And lets be real, if powers like AA has existed 90% of humanity would act even worse than him.
Right? You can just look at the real-life humans who have power. Astarion doesn't even do half the atrocities we humans do to each other. Instead he keeps asking his consort what she wants, hosting lavish balls, and flapping around as a cute bat at Withers' party lol.
Pretty sure Tav could distract him from world domination for all eternity with new shiny hobbies.
@Nakumiya exactly
Perfectly made. Giving proof compared to just discussing it in comments adds more credibility. The love is true, there’s no control over us as we go and do as we please without asking for consent. Everything is us, we, ours. He might have the power but he shares it with his consort, a fancy word for spouse. He gave us blood while turning us and we feed off each other, this counters calling us a spawn rather than a true vampire.
Unless people forget the dialogue with him about how to become a vampire, the differences between as it’s taken that a spawn can be in the sun until Astarion disagrees and says he should be in ashes, and then how to become a true vampire which he says that the sire must approve to give their blood to their spawn and notes the reason why no true vampire would let go of their spawn as it’s more competition (other than a cleric with a stake, the only thing that can kill a true vampire is another true vampire). We are NOT spawns as he was open to sharing his blood while turning and allowing us to feed of him.
There’s no spinning the truth to fit one’s narrative that he is the same as Cazador. When he’s angered or upset it’s because he’s responding to us. Anything he says after being broken up with are lies to hurt us back. If he gets accused of becoming something or someone he’s not naturally he will react badly. Anyone who tries to use those moments are either in denial, never had a break up before, or just looking for something to say against AA even if they’re grasping at straws and making huge leaps to validate he’s abusive and we are below him (which is a misunderstood dialogue taken out of context). Nothing is definitive proof against him and that his love for us is a lie.
That's right, I completely agree with you ❤️
Hell yes! Love the video! Good job as always. 🖤
Adding to 1 (not biting thinking creatures): He ALSO encourages you to bite one of the drow twins (you can pick which one).
And also adding how he is not like Cazador:
- Cazador flayed and tortured his spawn
- he even had an extra servant who would torture them if he didn't feel like it
- Cazador locked thousands of them in dungeons, not feeding some of them for hundreds of years
- Cazador made his spawn sell their bodies to lure people back
- Astarion is now the Vampire Ascendent, which means he has his mortal feelings back, which includes love. Cazador was incapable of feeling love
- the gentle way Astarion makes Tav a vampire is VERY different how he was made a vampire by Cazador. He was drained and then buried
The moment we get the option to call him Cazador 2.0, the only things he did was kill the Gur who wouldn't let him leave even if he backed down, and make Tav a vampire (if bride or spawn it's up to your role-play) as carefully as he possibly could
@@Nakumiya That's absolutely right. 💯❤️
I thought it would be enough to show Tav biting him. I know we can go bite the drow. 😅
@@iamkittybg3 haha I just thought I'd mention it for the "but he won't allow her to bite other people" crowd. 😂
@@Nakumiya There are people that have said that he wouldn't let the player bite other people? I mean.... canonically in the game he not only tells the player to go nibble on one of the Drow twins (or Halsin), he lets his consort get first dibs xD
@@KuroPhina I could have sworn I saw someone say he not only doesn't let Tav bite him (that he lies when he says she'll taste his blood, which ALSO doesn't make sense since he already gave her blood during her transformation, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to share his power from Mephistopheles with her), but also enforces Cazador's rule of not biting people.
Mind you, some people do twist themselves into pretzels trying to make him more evil than he is.
And yes in my game I also had him tell my Tav that she can pick which of the drow she wants 😃
When does he say she can bite Halsin? That would be even better since my Tavs sometimes also romance Halsin alongside Astarion. 😍
If Halsin is there, you can bite Halsin too! Halsin then says Astarion is a bad influence !
I think the easiest way to explain how every decision in the game changes the whole game and makes every single role-play fantasy true (including an Ascended Astarion who loves his consort), is to imagine it being like Marvel’s Multiverse. In one universe you have the Loki we know, in another we have Kid Loki or Lady Loki etc. Generally, only one Loki exists in one particular universe (unless some weird event in the comics / movies / show forces them all to be in one room), they others don’t exist in that particular universe. They do exist in their own universe however and the Loki we are familiar with isn’t the one they know.
In BG3 with every playthrough you start, you start a new universe. In one you may be durge, in another you are a Tav, one you may be a Tiefling fighter who romances Wyll, in another you are a human bard who romances Astarion. In some Astarion gets left at the beach, in some you let the Gur take him, in others a player might stake him.
None of these universes know the other exists. Spawn Astarion doesn’t know that there is an ascended version of himself and vice versa. They also don’t know that there are versions where Cazador wins or where Astarion gets staked.
So, with that being said, of course you can play a poor little naïve character who was manipulated into helping Astarion ascend and become his consort, only to panic and find no way out. Your character can have a tragic ending, tied to a monster for eternity, if you desire.
But the same goes for having a loving relationship between two vampires, like say Spike and Dru from Buffy. Two monsters hellbent on world domination. When Spike and Dru arrived in Sunnydale in season 2, Dru was very weak due to an attack. Spike, despite being a monster, lovingly cared for her.
The same dynamic can be roleplayed with Ascended Astarion and Tav. Heck, Tav can even be someone who reigns him in and distracts him with shiny new hobbies for all eternity and delays his world domination plans forever. In this reality the dialogue with Tav being yelled at for comparing him to Cazador or him refusing to break up doesn’t exist for either Astarion nor Tav. It might exist in the tragic end if you choose to click on that option.
You could even leave him spawn and role-play him getting resentful towards Tav in the future.
The game allows for all this to be true.
BG3 leaves us an insane amount of freedom to create our own stories. None of them are wrong (unless you hand Scratch to that awful lady in act 3, wtf is wrong with you?).
And it just really sucks if you get screamed at by anti-AA people and told you deserve to be in an abusive relationship or that you need therapy or whatnot.
Yes! The Marvel Multiverse comparison is a really good one! That's something I always try to explain to everyone, but I did it with string theory😅 Any answer we choose excludes others, a line of events goes in one direction, excluding other lines of events. Because all the dialogue lines can't be in one playthrough. And I like the Loki comparison😊 Haha, I like him as a character.
I also like playing the rogue class in all the games, and that doesn't mean I'm a rogue in real life😂(if anyone is worried about my real life)
@@iamkittybg3
Yes exactly, for instance if you side with the goblins you can never get the act 2 tiefling quests. Because in that timeline the tieflings have ceased to exist.
I hate it so much when people think their fantasies are the only correct ones. "Oh she will fear him." "He will become abusive."
Okay, well maybe in YOUR game, but he isn't like that in mine. He never yelled at my Tav, he never told her he won't let her leave etc. Because she never asked to leave. She was happy with him. And he adored her. Always protective, always eager to give her whatever she wanted.
Loki is so much fun, I love him too. Tom Hiddleston is also a beautiful man. Have you ever seen Crimson Peak? A gothic romance and gah I love that movie.
Haha you are not a rogue in real life? And probably not an elf either! I'm shocked! I regret to inform you, I'm also neither a drow nor a Tiefling, and sadly neither Warlock or Druid 😂
I haven't seen this movie but I'll take note of what to watch this weekend. I like Tom Hiddleston, he's very charming.😊
That's right, breaking up is not the goal of my Tav's relationship. She would never do that and she is happy with her relationship with AA. So AA has never heard that from her, and she has never heard his reaction to it. She is happy with him, and he is happy with her.❤️
@@iamkittybg3 he is very charming! Just a warning, you see, well, a LOT of Tom in that movie 👀
@@iamkittybg3 фильм крутой, тоже советую!
Thank you so much for this wonderful video! 💯It touches the heart so much that Astarion always says “we”, “us” (and even puts special emphasis in his voice on it!), this story is a story of true deep love and unity. 💞 To be honest, I've always wondered where this strange interpretation of “Astarion - Cazador 2.0” even came from, how can one person suddenly turn into another in such a magical way? I think the premise of the “cycle of abuse” lies in fanfiction, and in my opinion is a fantasy of fans of the non-consensual romance genre. I've also seen artwork with Cazador many times in the work of fans of that genre and the fantasy of feeling in Astarion's shoes. The idea of this “cycle” itself lends itself perfectly to these kinds of stories of suffering and violence. That, in my humble opinion, is where the fantasy of Cazador 2.0 was born. Of course, for those of us who aren't fans of the genre, the idea seems like something strange, and trying to pull it over on the original game - even more so.
The only “evidence” for this headcanon in the game is that Tav can say “Now you're just like Cazador”. How is the possibility of a certain line supposed to convince someone of anything? Astarion is a very lively and reactive character. And he reacts to words and actions the way a living person reacts. Tav is always the initiator of conflict. The line “You're like Cazador” are words fit for a roleplay of an extremely cruel and emotionless character, these words are aimed at hurting him, nothing more. Astarion - a character with PTSD (PTSD survivors can have very aggressive and even lightning fast reactions to such things, tell a soldier who has experienced torture in captivity that he is just like the one who tortured him and no good will come of it). Astarion was a victim of terrible violence, he's been a victim for 200 years, I don't think headcanon authors on the topic of “toxicity” or anyone in the real world at all, can fully imagine it. Maybe the game's authors went a bit overboard in describing the suffering in Astarion's story, the psyche can't handle something like that, and a personality that has gone through something like that is unlikely to retain integrity. But Astarion has. And he reacts more than adequately to the cruel, insulting, treacherous words from the one person whom he, unfortunately, has only just begun to trust.
The fact that Astarion is now forever bound to Tav, and is emotionally attached to Tav anyway, and “won't let break up” where any self-confident person who thinks he deserves a decent partner would have pointed the door to such a Tav, in no way makes Astarion an abuser. The ritual of conversion has no reversal, the two characters are forever bound to each other. A brutal villain would have killed such a Tav after the adventure was over, simply out of logical calculation and unwillingness to have a traitor behind his back. There would have been no epilogue with such a roleplay. Abuser would have behaved completely differently and shown real brutality in response to the line, “You're like Cazador”. But Astarion's response is anger and resentment, not violence.
At the same time, if you play with love to Astarion, - he gives great love in return. In general, it is even interestingly shown, - Astarion behaves like a living person, he reacts to the attitude towards him, and behaves differently with different people. A player can choose a feud story, and see love crumble, break Astarion's heart, and yes, Astarion will treat their Tav/Du differently, just don't confuse that with Astarion's attitude towards the Tav/Du of those players who love Astarion, and choose a love story. With AA, two different stories are possible, depending on the player's attitude and roleplay. With Tav who loves Astarion, Astarion's behavior is also very loving, playful, and he is very much attached to Tav. I always savor being with him, how proud and contented he has become, how he has literally blossomed before my eyes. It's a wonderful feeling when a loved one opens up in relationship with you, Astarion opened up, squared his shoulders, even his movements and posture became more confident. Playful lines with charming movements (“Yes, my treasure?”), deep and serious declarations of love (“Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever, until the world falls down”), and many other beautiful moments that you showed in your wonderful video.
If you watch a slice of AA haters' videos on “Bad Astarion - unhealthy relationship” and just put yourself in Astarion's shoes, imagine it all being addressed to you, especially: “You're like Cazador” (knowing that Cazador tormented him for two hundred years and Astarion hated that creature more than anything else in the world), then you'll be able to appreciate this situation in all its colors. To me, there is something creepy and utterly vile about the suggestion of leaving a loved one in darkness, with perpetual hunger, with no colors of life, with dulled senses, because he is not behaving the way a “good boy” should behave in their view. To me, a “healthy relationship” is a relationship without pain and tragedy, and that's it. The only thing I want to do after this is to go into my game and kiss Astarion and build my own healthy relationship with him where he never gets hurt again.
Thank you for dispelling these myths! 👍
Thank you very much for your comment! 😊 I fully share your point of view and subscribe to every word you say ❤️
The Cazador 2.0 comment always makes me so mad. Those are words none of my Tavs or Durges will ever utter to him because it's insanely cruel.
What has he done since Ascension? Killed the Gur who would have not let him leave anyway (I tried talking them out of it, they would literally not budge and they threatened to hunt him for eternity, so screw them, especially since they seemed to have waited forever to get to the dungeon in the first place and then whined that the outcome was not one they wanted) and the second thing he did was make Tav a vampire. And he makes her into a vampire in the most careful and gentle way possible, very unlike how he was turned. He had to dig himself out of his own grave and coughed up congealed blood. Tav woke up in a bed with her lover by her side who stayed there watching over her while she transformed.
And you are so right that people forget just how terrible Cazador was to Astarion, for 200 years. It's difficult to grasp just how long 200 years is (if Cazador would have snatched me up as a baby, I still would have over 160 years left of that terrible sentence). And one of the tortures he inflicted was flaying, which has to hurt like hell. And feeding him dead putrid rats. We are incredibly lucky Astarion is as sane as he is. By all rights he should have been a crazed monster. Telling Astarion he is just like Cazador is insane.
I am astonished how well they created these characters that they react on the player characters choices the way they do. In my playthrough my Ascended Astarion was also incredibly loving and protective, something I did not expect after seeing all those youtube videos where people make him seem like a monster to Tav. One even edited the kiss scene where he pushes her face away during the kiss to look like he'd slapped her. I was so nervous ascending him and then... I loved him? And I thought I'd lost my mind or missed something, before I found this channel. I found a different, smaller channel who also posts AA videos and I excitedly commented I like him too, just to be swarmed by anti-AA haters, one even lecturing me on vampires, as if I hadn't been a fan of vampires for 30 years now lol. Of course that was the same old drivel "vampires in DnD don't feel love" talk, when AA is an ascended vampire, which is a Larian homebrew and one of the things in the contract between Mephistopheles and Cazador was that he gets his mortal feelings back. Plus Astarion even shares that power with Tav. He didn't need to do that, a "slave" (as anti-AA people see Tav in this relationship) who has to hide in shadows would be so much easier to control.
I did try a playthrough with Spawn, but as soon as I saw the "His fate is sealed" pop up in the quest entries my heart sank. He sounded so timid compared to AA and I felt like he was acting to make my Tav like him. And him running from the sun, with NO ONE of the group running after him made me so sad. I still like him, but I feel like my character forces him to choose between her and the thing he wants: ascension. And I don't ever want to do that to Astarion.
@@Nakumiya I understand you so much! I always felt so sorry for him, leaving him as a spawn and then watching him burn. And I was also afraid to let him ascend. And then when I did it, I realized that I was misinformed. A lot of time has passed since then and I have been letting him ascend always since then. 😁
@@iamkittybg3 yeah only kept him spawn once and the minute I kept him spawn I started disliking that playthrough. The whole time I had this weird cold feeling like I'd somehow broken him, taken away everything he wanted and I felt like I was almost another Cazador, denying him what he wanted.
He is sweet and I understand people liking him, but he feels so much happier ascended.
@@Nakumiya Yes, I understand you completely!🤝 That misinformation caused me a lot of heartache the first time I played the game too. I couldn't help but spoiler, what happens during the refusal of the ritual, “His fate is sealed” in the diary, his behavior (Astarion completely lost the playfulness he had in Act 2 and kind of “faded out”, if I may say so). It was all too scary to follow the principles of a “clean” first game, as I had always played any game before, trying not to spoil the first impression with any information from the net. I tried not to spoiler Ascended, but I read a lot of anti-AA haters online about the whole “abusive”, “will never respect Tav” thing (and for me respect is very important in a relationship, I respected Astarion and treated him as carefully as I could), and damn it, I didn't come across a single intelligent AA comment that would have calmed me down a bit. I felt awful, running around with UA with tears in my eyes, letting the rest of the plot “pass me by” ( when replaying with AA for everything was like a new experience). I even started having insomnia in real life, regularly forgetting my keys, phone and other unpleasant things. I decided to quit the hell out of this game without completing it. I don't know, maybe I'm weird, of course, but I couldn't get over the fact that I had, in fact, left Astarion “brat forever" in an uncompleted game, that is, in a world where he has no hope. I decided “let him be an abuser, I don't care”, loaded the save before the fight with Cazador, preparing in advance for bad things to happen, just to get through to the end, get Astarion to his “evil” finale where he'll be fine, and I'll never touch this game again. I played through with patch 5, and I guess if I had seen those mocking “kisses” of patch 6 in the game then, I probably wouldn't have been so angry, I would have fought my way through them, maybe made some evil around to get even, but still gotten him to his finale.
But the opposite happened - “You gave me everything. Thank you.” And it felt real, it felt like I really deserved those lines, it felt serious. And his gratitude afterward, his joy, his playfulness, his wonderful “treasure,” “Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever...”. There was great love on his part. And certainly no “abuse”.
I even got online myself and started getting involved in all these debates against anti-AA because I really wanted to share my experience that everything would be okay after the kneeling scene, because I myself had only encountered anti-AA opinions about it in my time, which made me a lot more nervous than this scene would have made me if I had talked to any of the AA fans before going through this scene. Then, after talking to other players who love Astarion (and I believe that it is AA fandom that truly loves him, whoever is offended by this opinion, sorry, you let him be suffering, you are willing to put up with it, and if you can ignore his suffering, but nothing terrible from the fact that you will ignore the opinion of a stranger on the inernet will not happen to you either), and my own walkthroughs and analysis, I made a complete and final opinion about this story. In order to honestly believe that rejecting the ritual is good for Astarion (not for the world, the player himself, anyone else, but for Astarion himself) you have to be “media literate” to the fullest.That's the only way. Hence so much aggression on their part - all those yelling on reddit, “forum battles” demanding the return of sexualized violence scenes (victim facial expressions from patch 6, which triggered PTSD in many people). But the facts will always remain facts, and no amount of articles on “The fact that Astarion burns at the end is good for him”, this is “bittersweet” (I'm sick of that word combination, to be honest) and editing videos to make Astarion a “monster” can do nothing about it.
I had already commented on this video but I did what I said I would do and in another save I Ascended him.
He changed a bit but he is still his silly funny self😂 In Avernus “I don’t have any idea what we are gonna do but we have a hammer so that means we are smashing something😀” lol
That had me laughing.
I was like: “And there you go folks! The Vampire Lord for you”😂😂
And with Harleep he says “Darling what are you doing?! This is not safe!”
He jokes around even in the most desperate of situations and he shows that he CARES.
I’m still not finished with this playthrough but my conclusion is he IS Astarion. The same man you knew only power drunk. Ascending him just heightens up the dark part of him that was always there.
My Tav is not Durge but they can both be better eterna amantes and people in due time (Since I mean they did sacrifice 7000 spawn). Surely Astarion will chill a bit. Although I feel a bit sad that Karlach and the rest push him aside after his Ascension. Makes me think on “alone when I had nothing and alone when I have everything”. It is sad. He dose tell you “There is a loneliness that comes with power.”
There’s a lot to dig up really
I do feel sad because of the kisses. I would have loved for my Tav to show some dominance or some soft moment kisses with passion. But that’s fine, that’s why I have her dating Gale too.😂
@@pamelagoneillmartinez1405 I'm glad you see Astarion after ascension the same. 😊 I also see him as the same Astarion. He has more power, but he doesn't change for me, as many write. If you play on PC, I can recommend a mod for alternative kisses with AA, I have it. 😁
@@iamkittybg3 Yes please❤️🔥
@@pamelagoneillmartinez1405 here it is ❤️: www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/10066
To me, the only bad endings for Astarion are those where he's dead, contolled, or forced into hiding because the pc couldn't be bothered to help him deal with his tormentor of the last century or two. That last one especially makes me mad because it implies that not one of his so-called friends attempted to find and help him before the epilogue party, the player included.
Ascension is certainly his evil path but I do not see it as a bad ending by any means. For starters there are more benefits to helping him ascend then there aren't. That bonus necrotic damage is no joke and his ascendant bite attack and new misty form came in handy multiple times.
Now to the characterization portion.
My experience with Lord Astarion as my character's love interest was not any worse than it was while he was still a spawn, probably because my girl didn't antagonize him the first chance she got.
It also helped that my roleplay for that character was one that fully accepted her new life as Astarion's bride. I even changed her appearance slightly to reflect that by giving her a new elegant hairstyle along with red eyes.
The roleplay oppurtunities for this game is so varied everywhere else it seems except for where Astarion is concerned according to a certain portion of players. They act as though helping him Ascend is forbidden and anyone that does it is a horrible person despite the fact that the player can commit numerous other evil deeds in game without Astarion's involvment if they choose.
My character was no goody-two-shoes saint that got corrupted by Astarion. She was always like that and only acted according to her own morals/beliefs. For example, she has a huge soft spot for children which was the sole reason she sided with the tieflings in act one. If there hadn't been any children among the refugees, she would have left them to their fates or sided with the goblins. She even tortured the prisoner in the goblin camp for fun before systematically clearing it.
She was a bard/rogue and despite being a classy lady, she was not above causing a bit of mischief here and there which I decided was the main reason she and Astarion got on so well. I think I even managed to max out his approval by the time I left act one.
Anyway, sorry for the long essay. I just wanted to make a point that how one roleplays their characters is what determines their individual experiences with the different routes they help lead the companions down.
I agree with you completely. I still can't understand why people are allowed to enjoy any ending, including the evil ones, or to romance Minthara, but are not allowed to enjoy a romance with AA. My character accepted Astarion as he is and did not try to fix him. I see him happy after ascension and my roleplay is about this. Of course, I used to leave him as a spawn too, it suited my other roleplays. But for me it was always emotionally difficult.
The game gives us many opportunities to play different roleplays and it's amazing.
By the way, I like your approach with changing the hairstyle and eye color, I also change the eye color of my character after turning into a vampire.😊
Umm, what about the Gur children? They were sacrificed to the hells as well.
@@elainegoates9792 So?
@@KuroPhina I'm just confused about the whole soft spot for kids thing given they sacrificed a dozen or so. Frankly not enough gets said about them.
@@elainegoates9792 Well, those kids are vampire spawns, some people might RP characters that care about them, some might RP characters that don't.
You can have a character that has a "soft spot for children" but still have exceptions.
I don't play the game but one day I might. I love ascended Astarion he's strong and unafraid he's free and I like that for Astarion.
@@leslievinsmoke I hope one day you will play and enjoy the game.❤️❤️❤️
Just yesterday I came across videо about how terrible it is that AA made Tav become a vampire, he himself went through it and knows how painful it is, etc... Are they trying to screw with their own eyes or what?.. They wrote nasty things about AA lovers again... It's scary to even go to the comments(
Yeah, better not share misinformation videos. If you can, edit the comment. 😊 But I get it, spawn-only fans are trying to make Astarion look terrible by making a montage of only negative responses from Tav to him. It's disgusting and frankly, it's not the AA fans who need help in this case, it's them. 😆
Painful? Tav dont even exactly remember his transformation. And we dont know is they even feel hunger. Because same as AA Tav dont have problems with sun, water and even mirrors. So, probably no hunger either.
Seems AA was sure that he can extend his abilities to Tav. Also, at this point he kinda intoxicated by his power and cant think clearly.
@@Yaguarundi Exactly!!! I don't understand how they play the game...
@@yuttasparrow0private They play "Victim" and then try to sprinkle in how they are victims too and triggered by him responding accordingly to rude or "Toxic" dialogue options. Like, why would I slap on my Feminist Hat AFTER Ascension? Why would I be upset with him calling me "Pet" when he's been calling me "Pet names" since ACT 1? Righteous Indignation at its best! Just say you're mad you can't be a Consort if he stays a Spawn, just say you're not attracted to the more Dominant masculine version and more attracted to the Submissive feminine flirtatious (Masking) that spawn does to make you feel safe. When he Ascends he doesn't have to Make you feel safe because he's bound to you just like you're bound to him. Don't stray too far meaning you can become a target. You are his ONLY weakness. You also feed from him to maintain your immunity to the Sun and Mephistopheles Blessings. I'm willing to share ALL of this with you. What's that, if not love? He shows with action instead of words. This is a gift, I won't forget it. Fast forward:
Are you ready to join me, to accept this immortal gift? Evil doesn't mean incapable of Love towards anyone. The most corrupt people in everyday life have someone that loves them. From Politicians, Entertainers, to the management that nitpicks and gets on your nerves at work has someone they Love.
I know the video that you’re talking about. Some of the commenters were very condescending. There were also comments acting like it’s a fact that the PC was not turned into a vampire spouse. If someone wants to headcanon that they’re a regular spawn, then fine, just like it’s fine to headcanon that they’re a spouse. Neither were officially confirmed nor denied, and that’s the point, which is so that we get to determine what happened in our own game.
Although, while it could be a mess up, it’s actually proven based on game mechanics and lore that was already established in the game that you’re not a regular spawn, because even after the tadpole is removed, Astarion allows you to bite him during the epilogue party. Even if it turned out that he lied about giving the PC blood when turning them (which it wouldn’t make sense to lie about that), the PC can still drink his blood and gets the happy status effect while he gets the bloodless effect, making them in fact either a true vampire based on what Astarion says early on in Act 1, or they didn’t change since they were already a spouse. Since their powers don’t change, then it leans more toward them having already been a spouse, or again just a mess up with the game developers.
Astarion Act 1 answer about how to become a vampire: “It’s simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you’ve done that, you’re free and a true vampire.”
PC: “So they bite you, you bite them?”
Astarion: “Yes and no. The problem is once you’re a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them.”
Я влюблена, девочки, ах❤❤❤ аа лучший выбор для него. Ну как можно обречь любимого на скитание в темном подземелье с тысячью левых неадекватных вампиров(мы видели его «семью», они поехавшие), а потом тупо умереть и пусть живет дальше в этом аду? Ну он хочет власть!!! Ну пусть правит, он не казадор, он милашка с маленькими фетишами, очень даже сексуально. Ну назвал зверушкой, ну встали на коленки, все бляха, монстр. А если нравится и заводит людей такое, то что??? По сути больше он ниче такое и не сделал шибко
Полностью соглашаюсь с вами ❤️💯
~~Until the world falls down~~
@@Kittyintheraiyn 🙌🏽❤️
He got his power from a devil and a "profane" ritual. Of course he's gonna be kind of a d*ck, but yeah he's definitely not another Cazador. First thing he did on their first night together was give Tav his blood, and he actively want her to drink his blood. He knows full well what this means and I believe he has every intention of making her a true vampire. If you peer into his thoughts before he turns you, he thinks you're disrespecting yourself by being with him. All that power and he still doesn't think he's good enough for Tav
There's also the theory that he doesn't make Tav into a regular spawn, but a vampire bride.
Him telling the player they'll drink from him is one of the reasons why I like to go by the Bride theory (the way your character is turned is the main reason).
@@TrancerDesigns "Consort" is a title for a monarch's spouse, so I'll definitely agree with the spouse/vampire bride theory. He might be "evil" but he never thinks about leaving Tav. He has all that power and almost immediately shares it with her like it was never a question
The only thing I hate AA for is the way he treats origin Karlach when he tries to bite her. It's absolutely brutal
yep I understood it like this too. Astarions whole character is also much "show don't tell" most of the time and many people don't understand this anymore because it gets lost in most medias. So they just understand what is writtten in an dialog option or written in a book but dont read between the lines or watch what the character literally does or doesn't do. I also think every small bubble in the internet is often much to quick to claim a character for their own. (for example a bubble of gay people says he is not for women because he "must" be gay or something, or a bubble of abused people say they are the only ones who can relate to him because no one knows him as good as they do). The internet is really an annoying place...
Oh gosh! finally I've found my people now. Love your vid
@@Sullys0409 Yay! Thank you! ^^
Dude I laugh every single time AA haters go "He's Cazador 2.0!!!!!" 🤣 If he was, then that would mean he would be twice as evil and wicked than what Cazador was and what he did to him. He loves Tav even though his confidence boosts up to 2000% when you ascend him. "Yes, my treasure? 😌♥"
@@tori1494 💯❤️
Exactly..just see the empathy he shows when your Tav feels Haarlep using their form...
@@allisoncampbell1631 he is SO sweet. And they recorded separate versions for Spawn and Ascended, and I love that.
@@allisoncampbell1631 AA haters dont see empathy here. Thay see "someone dared to touch my property". I dont understand how... but i saw such thing not once. Also they sure AA anger on Tav here. He didnt say anything mean, rude or blaming (even if all this situation result of Tav's stupid decision), but they think he anger on Tav...
@@Yaguarundi EXACTLY..
I love this video and ascended Astarion ❤. Good job 😊
Thank you 😊❤️
Сами Лариан когда-то заявили, что АА не Касадор 2.0!!! Я тоже устала от всего дерьм@ в сторону Вознесенного Лорда! Как вообще можно считать концову "отродья" лучшим исходом?! - это же УЖАСНО!! Кто это придумал, вообще🤦♀️ для детей делалось, что ли? "Вознесение" ЛУЧШИЙ ИСХОД ДЛЯ АСТАРИОНА!!!!!! ✊✊🦇💜✨💜✨💜✨💜✨💜✨
AA positivity is awesome to see. For too long we've been trampled on, called horrible things, told horrible things. If you aren't down for the dark fantasy that's fine, but don't beat those of us who love AA with a dead Beholder.... Let us love who we love, and simply accept that. 😊
@@MizuMing “with a dead Beholder” 😂❤️
But yeah, I think we all need more AA positivity.😁
Okay... This actually makes me like Ascended Astarion more than I used to... But I don't know... Maybe it's wrong but I like the bulnersbility of spawn Astarion. Also I really just can't kill so many spawns just to make him happy. And I don't like when he as AA tries to act like some kind of dom thing... It's weird... But he doesn't really seem as bad as I thought anymore. I kinda want to hug him too....😳
Honestly, I had my doubts at first when I was doing my first AA run but ended up enjoying it a lot more. It really isn't as scary/bad as people claim. That said, it's absolutely not for everyone and that's OK!
Both paths are equally valid and you can easily have a positive/happy RP with either version, it just all comes down to player preference :D
@@KuroPhina I juts really don't want to kill all the poor spawns that have already been suffering for so long.... and the Dom bs pisses me off... I cant help it. But i feel like either Astarion really just needs a hug. Its still the same baby, ... just.. slightly more annoying in personal opinion... But i get the appeal of it.
@@ladygalakxia7502 That's absolutely understandable, the main thing is to have fun with the game. Evil choices definitely aren't for everyone, I struggled a lot at first with evil campaigns. ^^
And yeah, AA has a lot more confidence and does become more dominant which is definitely not going to be for everyone. By the way, I do recommend watching the clip on UA-cam of Neil describing the performance of AA and how it differs from spawn. They really aren't as different as people think, it really is just a matter of personal preference. :D
@@ladygalakxia7502 I wish there were more options ingame to hug this man, ascended or spawn, I don't care, just lemme hug him.
I agree about some suddenness and weirdness (perhaps because of this suddenness and the fact that the player is not prepared for it in any way, the player has to explain to himself and understand all this domination) of the behavior of the dominant Astarion, especially on the first playthrough. I had some complaints about Larian because of the fact that the game basically lacks any other roleplay, no matter what the player thinks about it. Tav and Astarion haven't had any conversation about it, and Astarion is absolutely sure that Tav likes it, there's a kind of “authorial arbitrariness” to it. Of course, it would have been better if Larian had made two lines - one for those who like D/s romance and a second line with classic romance. As a matter of fact, nowhere and in no way in the game is it possible to tell Astarion that Tav doesn't want to be a submissive, there are simply no such lines. For the sake of interest, you can just look at it not from your character's eyes, but from Astarion's eyes, seeing from the outside what lines and reactions are available to Tav, what Astarion hears and sees. In fact, the fact that Astarion acts like Dom, which the player may not like, is the romance author's decision, Astarion loves Tav, he needs their love first and foremost, dominance yes, he likes it, but it's secondary. I think if there was a matching roleplay for the player, then Astarion would have slightly different behavior as well, but we only have this story.
Actually, this is the first time I've had this in a game, and I was not immediately able to understand this “theme”, perceive and start enjoying it, at first I saw this lack of roleplay as some kind of “blackmail” on the part of the script in the style of “well, kneel down, or else you will have Astarion will suffer from hunger and burn”. But as a result, on the contrary, I'd now like to thank Larian for pushing the boundaries of my perception. And whereas the first time I knelt before Astarion solely because “it was necessary” to prevent the tragedy where he remains a spawn forever, now I take real pleasure in this dynamic. I see it as caring for him, as an opportunity to make him feel special, as complete and unconditional acceptance and love.
But of course, I completely understand why a lot of people don't like that dynamic at all. But if you do ever want to play with Ascended Astarion for the sake of interest, I highly recommend the mod “Nightingale's Lord Astarion - Ascended Astarion Alternative Romance” on the Nexus. This mod allows romantic kisses instead of those dominant kisses that are in the original game (as many as 12 different kisses, the author of the mod reworked the kisses of other companions for Astarion) + so necessary to him hugs.
You are doing the work of the gods right now 🥰
~ Thank you 🖤
Спасибо за прекрасное видео💓😻)))). В игре не один раз подтверждается, что Астарион поделился с Тав кровью.
Астарион ради гг нарушил все правила вампиров-лордов, спрашивает её мнение, окружил её заботой и любовью.
Много раз говорил, что любит, и доказал это.
Для него гг - самое лучшее, конечно он никогда ей не навредит, человеку, который поверил ему и доверился.
🥰
@@ЛинаЛайн-ю1ч Это абсолютно точно 💯 АА любит Тав и ради нее готов на все ❤️
@@ЛинаЛайн-ю1ч ну, некоторые с Вознесенным Астарионом видят только отыгрыш жертвы (попытка порвать отношения после уничтожения личинки демонстрирует "темную" сторону отношений). Непонятно зачем решившей стать вампиром, хотя там можно было отступить и до, и в процессе. И еще порвать до победы над мозгом. И почему- то они не видят другого пути.
Soooo… apparently I made need to make a new save before opening Cazador’s coffin and get me a loving Ascended Vampire Lord👀❤️🔥✨ I needed to see this because all I see is the cons about him. So I noticed spawn Astarion is silly sweet lover and Acended Astarion is seductive passionate lover. Me like✨
it all depends on what options you choose in response to him. All that is shown negative about him on the Internet is that he responds to the negativity that Tav says first. If Tav is not rude to him or reproaches him, but says loving responses, he responds to Tav with love in return 😊
I remember being unsure with AA at first due to what I read online but realised that he's very different in the game compared to what you see online. You have to pick negative dialogue options to get negative responses. Spawn or Ascended, it's still Astarion and he's not as different as people think.
Yes, please do the romance for yourself and form your own opinion. Even if you end up hating AA, try it for yourself. There's so much cherry picking in a lot of the anti AA videos.
Alot of what I've seen online b4 this was the dominant almost territorial side of Ascended Astarion. This does change my mind as far as Ascension is his bad ending but I still don't like the thought of sacrificing so many innocent ppl who deserve the same chance Astarion gets. It's times like these where i feel like I'm to empathetic and I dive a little to deep into the game lol
I remember feeling uncertain at first but changed my mind when I actually played with the ascension path. That said, evil playthroughs or choices aren't for everyone and that's OK ^^
@KuroPhina I'm one of those ppl who tries to do a evil playthrough then immediately apologizes and go back to being nice 😂
@@Sp1tfire_5316 Yeah, I remember my first evil run and I had a few moments where it was difficult, for example betraying the grove. I think that's the hardest thing for me on evil runs. ^^
I understand you, I didn't want to “play for evil” in other RPG games before BG3 either, I liked to choose the “good” path much more, and in those worlds the “good” path was always much warmer, happier and more attractive than the “evil” one. I learned to get a high from the evil passage only thanks to BG3 (actually, thanks for the interesting experience too). And I was too sorry to kill the spawns in the ritual at first, it was the first time I went through “good”, and if it wasn't for my intuition that screamed that everything was bad, and the entry in my diary that “Astarion will remain a spawn forever”, I wouldn't have spoilered, I wouldn't have restarted and I would have had that horrible burning ending. But, even from an emotional standpoint, there's a very cruel price to pay for “good” here - seeing Astarion's tears, his depression, his sadness, the way he's forced to adapt to a “good” world, and the way that “good” world treats him as a result. There is no way to help Astarion in this case, only fantasy and headcanons. And in the case of the “evil” choice, all we'll actually see is a few characters we don't know much about exploded (Astarion's “family” treated him badly, by the way). And Astarion no longer feels the pain of hunger. Astarion has squared his shoulders. With Astarion, it's a lot of fun to run around sunny Baldur. True, after Ascension, I didn't get any evil roleplay the first time, I was too happy, the world was playing in all its colors again, I even set myself challenges like “save every single Gondian in the Foundry”, and on the first playthrough, I , to be honest, I didn't want to do any “evil”, on the contrary, in spite of the “right” roleplay of evil Tav, ready to do anything for the sake of “power”, it's much more fun to help everyone, to explore every corner of the world, the world becomes bright again and I want to treat it the same way. And a happy ending, a real victory, all is well. The adorable bat in the epilogue.
And as a matter of fact, 7000 hungry vampire spawn let loose isn't such a “good thing” either. We're only shown poor Sebastian and the kids, but among those 7000 there are quite a few criminals (Astarion talks about this in one of the lines near the cages), those who will never be able or willing to control the hunger. There used to be a narrator's line about this as well, but it was removed in patch 5. Not all of the rescued spawns will go to the Underdark, quite a few of them will settle in the sewers and start hunting the citizens of Baldur. This is also someone's death, someone's tears and loss. A lot of hungry vampire spawns is not a good thing for a city, so even if Astarion is not considered at all, it will be more of a “gray” rather than a 100% “good” act. I think Astarion deserves much better than staying a spawn forever for the sake of it.
And Stephen Rooney himself has said that Ascension isn't a “bad” ending for Astarion, it's his “evil” ending. Astarion is an inherently evil character, and in most classic RPGs, including BG1 and BG2, successfully completing an evil companion's quest is officially an “evil” act that does good for that companion and possibly bad for some NPC or some area, or some part of the game world in general. The “evil” ending for an “evil” character is the good ending for that character.
There are plenty of people that are in denial and try to project their morals or in a few cases their hurt over the fact that they couldn't fix a pixelated man the way they either tried to fix themselves or someone they were in a relationship with. Most of us who can see his characterization for what it is can see that Astarion is the same throughout and that when hes Ascended he's actually his most authentic. No more putting on a facade for the party. There's no discord over Sharran Shadowheart, God Gale, Ascended Lae'zel, Wyll who lets his father die to break his pact with Mizora (which why do we have to make that choice for him), or Karlach sucking down Soul Coins and the fact that she's actually no better than the rest even though she's treated like she's the least problematic (she's not). Folks become hypocritical to push their own preference to prove that they are right and you are wrong in what YOU like. It reminds me of High School cliques and the "Cool kids" telling you that because you like something they don't, you cant sit with them or enter the conversation. (Back to Astarion) After Ascension the only thing he does is speak in his normal tone and is actually blatantly honest with your character about his plans. The plans he's had since
Act 1 and 2! Get his revenge by either just killing the bastard or taking his place and stealing the power he'd worked all that time to obtain. When he, Cazador, didn't do a thing. His Spawns brought all of the victims through compulsion and selling their bodies and to me personally the bill came due for Astarion to collect what was owed to him. There is no morally high choice to make concerning the other victims. Either they are free and kill innocent people along the way or get destroyed through the ritual, Astarion if you interrupt it, You if you're a Paladin and don't want to be an Oathbreaker, or simply because you don't feel it in your spirit to condemn 7k souls to hell. 7k souls who are blood starved Evil Aligned vampire spawn that you just met but have been romancing Astarion since he put the dagger to your neck. Now, you guve pause for people he told you he didn't give two sh*ts about and said his "siblings" were just as bad. Can you feel sympathy? Yes, but when it's all said and done...do you gaslight your lover or help him Ascend and gain the power to make him feel more secure. This is not to say that he cant be secure as a Spawn but he'll constantly hunger and his emotions will continue to be a mask. Being what you want to see instead of what he wants to see in himself. It calls back to him saying, "You've come so far only to slip now." People took what he said after breaking up with him as him being "Toxic" (I hate that term now) when he's expressing that he's actually hurt you're rejecting him now that he's feeling like his best self. Some people can't handle it when the person who caused the pain is THEM. They can't take accountability so they gaslight and project to make the person feel like they were the issue. Astarion is more blunt when he Ascends and doesn't care about anyone but his lover. Everyone else is subject to appropriate Vampire Lord etiquette. Does he see you as his precious possession? Yes. Does he become more dominant? Yes. You consent to it once you kneel, that this will be the dynamic. He taps more into his masculinity and the feminine flair and flirtatious mannerisms used to disarm cease because he doesn't have to anymore. You're it for him. He even tells Minthara that he's not giving his blood to anyone else. Period. That he has a love that trusts him completely and could care less about their opinions on the matter. The moral commentary from other party members are representing those on reality who have hypocritical views on lifestyles they aren't privy to and have no room to judge. Then, we get into the SA victims who only got louder when the kisses dropped...like why?! You pursue him and save scum to get his approval. Go through Ascension and now you clutch your pearls?! Now you're triggered?! I'm 40 years old and in a relationship. I'm a survivor NOT a victim and I don't play victim in my life or in my roleplaying games that are supposed to be an escape! Most of those who bring up "Real Life Astarion" experiences haven't really dealt with one and are "Hive minds" mimicking buzz words and followers. Let's just call them the true Illithids. The Mindflayers and the Elder Brains who run the pages spouting insulting comments about those of us who just want to enjoy our Consort status in Peace.😅
(Kitty I may just leave the story as is because every time I get settled to finish it I get writer's block) I see the scene perfectly but the descriptive words are jumbled like Scrabble. 😅😩
(Thank you as always for your content!)❤
@@raelaurenmccoy803 Wow, thanks for writing this. I completely agree with everything. You just nailed it. You are amazing. ❤️
Let your story, which you wrote before, remain as it is. There will be a lot of room for imagination. 🤭❤️❤️❤️
@iamkittybg3 ❤️❤️❤️❤️ 🥹🤗🤓
That's what my partner said 😂
He told me to stop stressing and that it was good as is... meanwhile me:
INTELLIGENCE (Writing) 🎲 ✔️
😩🤔😮💨✍🏽🗒️🚫 ( 1 )
Don't worry, everything is fine.🤗 That story was so great that it will be remembered as a legendary story. And maybe in a thousand years, descendants will find this comment and make a movie about it.😁❤️
@@iamkittybg3 😂
One can only dream!
Also, (Activate CAPS)...
YOU ARE AWESOME and
The image you chose for this video is a chef's kiss! 🤌🏽
"Ask me anything and it will be yours."
@@raelaurenmccoy803 that's exactly when he says that phrase 😁❤️
Oh i think some people are ready to tell you re wrong 😂. ❤ I for myself always think is it not better for him no longer got this hunger now? 😮 but perhaps I m idiot 😅
Both character paths have pros and cons, but I'm sick of it when haters compare AA to his offender 😤
@iamkittybg3 thats true 😊
@@iamkittybg3 completely agree. NOT Cazador 2.0 at all.
Wonderful video. I prefer AA over SA any day. I always thought keeping him a spawn in a romance was in a way selfish. You keep the upper hand in the relationship. Remaining a spawn he still seems afraid of Tav leaving him. He loses his bite so to speak and is all of a sudden a good aligned hero just for tav. As AA all that theatrical behavior is gone and he is his true self. People seem to forget that he was always evil aligned and trying to change him to be this defanged lover boy without agency is tragic. Mortal Tav will die and leave SA in the dark. It’s the old question of ethics. Would you save a thousand strangers over your love or not. I feel that the fandom in general hates giving the male characters agency over their own wants and needs to make them their perfect boyfriends, only doing what Tav wants from them and giving up their goals. It’s the same with god Gale. Why talk him out of his desire? Because he’s too independent of Tav and could decide to leave? I rather have a romance where I know this person is with me because they truly want to, not because they have to out of fear to be abandoned. Sorry for the rant, I’m just getting tired of all the AA and god Gale haters because “ men with agency won’t love me unconditionally” mindset.
What always makes me chuckle is the outrage over Astarion not wanting to be with mindflayer Tav. Who would want to be with a deformed soulless creature
@@claudiawright2382 Thank you for watching the video and leaving such a nice comment. ❤️ I agree with you.
I also don't get all the hate in the direction of God Gale. Doing mu second run as Durge and planning to ascend Astarion this time, I also would like to do a fourth run for Gale as sourcerer Tav, enjoy "idiots to lovers trope" and help him become a God. Why the hell not? I've spoilered it for me and Gale also is over the moon and only happy to share godhood with his beloved. He's not alone on the Olymp, Tav/Durge is with him.
The general hate of giving characters ultimate powers... I've thought about it a lot, and it's somehow dragging from the 90's. I remember myself as a childe thinking it bad "just because" while watching the movies or playing some games. After I grew up I see that more aa a real gamechanger, a turning point, a neutral, an ultimate zero, for which a price shall be payed, because this is how things work, but if it'll be for good or for bad, only time will tell.
Aahhh, gotta play my second BG3 run to the end somehow❤
@@iamkittybg3 I’ve been watching your videos for a long while now and love the light you shine on AA. I also read all the comments arguing against AA, how he loses his soul and doesn’t love Tav and calls her pet. It’s annoying because they don’t seem to pay attention to how the ritual works. He doesn’t loose his soul. He gains immense powers, he lives again with all the appetites of the living and being able to walk in the sun again. He can comfortably be himself. Why wouldn’t Tav want that for her/his man? And “pet” is an old affectionate term people call their love, not something degrading. I think people love living out a status quo of a, in their eyes, equal relationship with balanced power dynamics. But Astarion is a damaged person who clings to the first person in 200 years to show him kindness. He doesn’t think he deserves it either. He’s surprised you want him at all. That’s not an equal relationship. He trusts Tav, then why would Tav not show him trust in return by helping him? I think it’s a huge betrayal to deny him the chance of a lifetime. It’s a gamble for sure, especially from an rpg perspective. It’s a new relationship brought on by chance. To me it makes sense to ascend him . Especially being in a romance with him. The world is about to be devoured. Having an all powerful vampire lord at your side can only help. Releasing 7000 starved and abused vampire spawns to run amok in the under dark is madness and creates even more chaos. Killing them without making use of ascension in such dire circumstances doesn’t make sense at all either to me. Ascension is the only choice that makes sense at that point. Ascending Astarion is definitely the lesser evil of all options with the mindflayers knocking on people’s doors.
@@claudiawright2382 Sometimes I think that haters can come up with anything to blame AA for something again. All these arguments they give are very strange and sometimes it does not exist in the game. So in most cases I immediately understand that these people never ascend him by themselves.xD
@ It’s definitely weird. The players that romance Astarion but also say that if you ascend him he becomes Cazador 2.0 have a strange mindset imo. They actively pursue a character that they think in his true essence is a rapist/torturer if you give him power. Let that sink in. So it’s a conscious choice to romance someone that they think is reprehensible, but keeping him leashed to them like a dangerous dog is ok. I wonder why. Is it because they don’t truly immerse themselves in the game and think that Astarion is simply a cute vampire elf that satisfies a kind of “taming” desire if you keep him as a spawn? Then why go off the rails when people ascend him? You brought something interesting up. How certain players come up with all kinds of strange half made up reasons why AA is bad and how they almost go on a warpath against fans of AA. I think it makes them feel better, either because some people just love feeling superior to others with their 21st century moral standards. Which again shows lack of immersion into a “medieval” themed game. Or maybe because deep down they feel uneasy with SA as well, but also think ascending him changes the power dynamic between him and Tav in his favor too much. He could leave if he wanted to and still live a fulfilling life without Tav. That might be a fear for some in their real life in general. So having a love interest who would never leave you, “changes” his views for “love”, would always be soft spoken and kind even if he breaks up with mindflayer Tav, might be appealing wish fulfillment for many people. I get it. The anger for ascending him I don’t understand at all. They hate the seriousness of a goal driven AA. But love the fake theatrical behavior SA puts on out of fear. His true self shines through from time to time but is ultimately crushed after killing cazador without ascension. He’s definitely relieved he’s dead and it shows, but he knows there is always a new threat stronger than him. As a spawn, even free, he has a target put on his back by all kinds of people. The gur, monster hunters like Wyll, other vampire lords/spawns etc. He still feels helpless and afraid. It might be dampened within the group and with Tav, but the constant fear remains. He can’t relax just because of what he is. That fear will probably heighten with time as the crew goes back to attend to their own lives. And how is a relationship between SA and mortal Tav really going to unfold? There will be constant true threats, and that is poison for any relationship. So is his weakness to the sun. Tav will get old and die. SA will start to resent her/him. I don’t see a Happy End for that dynamic at all. It’s sad.
Cazador knew about the ritual when he created his spawn. I wonder how Cazador would have been towards his own bride, if he had taken one.
He didn’t make any of his spawn brides, and presumably he would have taken one when he ascended.
It would be interesting to see if there would have been any closer correlations between Ascended Astarion and Cazador in this regard.
This was a really great edit, enjoyed watching. 😊
@@saturiadracarys1351 I have a personal theory that Cazador intended to make Lady Incognita his bride, but she refused. Or rather, I believe that the ritual was performed, but she then protested and locked herself in the attic. But there is little history in the books in Cazador's palace to support this. But it would be funny if that were the case. 😅
oh that’s a good theory! I wish there was more Lady Incognita and she was at least a npc. I can see Cazador forcing that on her, for sure.
@@saturiadracarys1351 On the other hand, I have now reread the books about Lady Incognita and my theory is very poor. Most likely, she was simply turned. But I would like to have more information and history about her. On the first playthrough, I was sure that I would find her ^^
@@iamkittybg3 wasn't she his 13 year old niece or am I confusing her with someone else? She is the one who left all those books and letters right? Mind you, the way she wrote 'Uncle' makes me think he might have been a family friend instead. And she was maybe promised to him as bride perhaps?
bg3.wiki/wiki/Alturiak_1477
They wanted to add her, at least I heard they were but it was all cut. There was also supposed to be some sort of puzzle in the Cazador Palace with those hanging cages.
@@Nakumiya Yes, you're right, she was 13 when she was turned into a vampire and calls him "uncle" in her letters/books. I know a lot of Сazador content was cut, including the vampire coven. I couldn't find much information about her other than the books in the palace, so it was fun to speculate on that. On the other hand, Сazador probably wouldn't want to share his power with anyone, so my theory is highly questionable.😂😅
Well, you don't have to be LIKE a certain horrible person to be a horrible person. Sending 7000 souls into hells is enough for me, I don't even need Cazador haha
Well, these 7000 souls are sent to hell with the permission and help of Tav
Seems you forget that it WE who let him do this and help him. So, if your Tav do this - he/she is same evil as AA. If your Tav help AA and then blame him for this sacrifice - then your Tav just fking hypocrite.
@@iamkittybg3 Yep, both people are horrible
@@Yaguarundi I never said anything about a Tav of course your tav is evil if you do that, obviously that's why all evil runs ascend him lol
@@DepressionOfMyCatok, just do not ascend him :)
Most of my romance astarion playthroughts not "good", most of them with Durge "fk all this, i just want to live free of this baal shit). Even if i didnt do all evil things.
God, why are his eyes so extra pretty in the thumbnail? 😍🥰
You are unfairly good at this!
Also, the video is as amazing as always. I love your editing style
haha he's always so extra pretty 😄❤
thank you for your kind words❤❤❤
Actually, AA not even so evil. What so evil the do? Make useful acquaintances? Kill some peoples that interfere him? Like any leader of shadow organisation don't do same. He use his power not as Vampiric Lord, more like human (well, no good and power hungry) do.
Damn seven thousand innocents to the hells for personal gain? He isn't Cazador, and he truly does love Tav, but he is definitely evil. He's just not the type of evil people claim. His relationship with Tav can occasionally get codependent, but not abusive. At least on his side. Unfortunately, players can hurt my poor fangboy.
@@elainegoates9792 So? We let him do this. So its WE damn seven thousands souls.
And i never told that AA isn't evil. He just... not so evil.
I didnt get one thing. After brain defeated AA didnt let break with him. Like "now tadpole gone, your life is mine to decide" but if you broke with him before brain... tadpole gone, and you still his "spawn", so he can all the same. So why?
Because he actually cant do anything with his "spawn" aside from manipulation and deceiving?
I broke up with AA before beating the brain and he becomes just a non-romance companion with high approval. After that he tells Tav "ah, my favorite travel companion". After beating the brain there is no romance scene in the epilogue and you meet at Withers' party as friends.
Since I am of the "bride theory" and Astarion gave Tav his blood, I am sure that he cannot control Tav.😊
@@iamkittybg3 he don't answer question "can you compell me". " why i need to" isn't answer :)
Also he did nothing when Tav run away in hell. He just pretend that he let this.
So i'm pretty sure he cant compel. But he tries hard to convince us otherwise.
I like taking over the world with Bae 😍 but yeah, masters don't have to manipulate their slaves so... Tav/Durge is not his slave.
How do you get that last prediction from Echo of Amelyssan?
You need to become an Unholy Assassin at the Bhaal Murder Tribunal.
@@ojyochan The elephant at the tribunal needs to be killed and then it will be possible to talk to everyone.
Я влюблена, девочки, ах❤❤❤
Love rhis ❤
How did you triggered the last scene? I always kill them all in the tribunal '-'~
I became an ‘unholy assassin’ and then be able to talk to all of them xD
@@iamkittybg3 if I became an unholy assassin i still can turn on Bhaal later? ç.ç'
Is there any consequence with the companions for doing this?
@@dezyta Yeah, you can still reject Bhaal later with no issues
Thank you guys ♥
@@dezytaSome of companions disapprove when you kill this useless elephant. But only it they in party. Camp dont have any reactions.
You could write all of his "sweetness" up to manipulation, or even the honeymoon phase. Remember that even Cazador was a victim at first, and he maybe even enjoyed his time with his master, but that changed. Who's to say he won't, with time?
@@Nanien_ The fact that he won't be like him over time is indicated by the epilogue, the predictor and my roleplay.
@@iamkittybg3 I'm not trying to say that he WILL become Cazador. I'm just saying he's his own kind of evil. Just because he shows kindness to one person doesn't make him a saint.
@@Nanien_ Nobody is saying he's a saint, people who enjoy AA are aware that it's his evil path, it's part of the reason a lot of people enjoy it. Some people like evil characters.
It's a roleplaying game, there's no "singular" interpretation and what happens after the events of the game comes down to each individual player and what they want for their story. If people want to roleplay being abused then by all means, go for it. There's different ways you can RP a story with AA, same as there's different ways you can RP one with spawn and any other character.
@@Nanien_ but spawn Astarion also not good.
Not romanced spawn kill peoples for money. Because he good in killing and like it.
@@Yaguarundi And AA is against it? Astarion potentially becomes Chaotic Neutral, or possibly Chaotic Good (which is less likely), but AA is definitely Chaotic Evil. Yes, Astarion never gives up his passion for killing, but neither does AA.
I just think AA is a worse Astarion. It's my opinion. I'm not trying to convert anyone's views - if you prefer AA, that's totally fine. I was only expressing how I felt.
I see you are an expert on Astarion, tell me if my character's eyes will turn red when Astarion changes me? And what about the transformation into a half illithid because black eyes cannot be changed
Unfortunately, Act 3 does not provide any changes to the character's appearance, but you can use the mirror to change it manually.
@@iamkittybg3 No? The question remains why then tav.durge don't have red eyes when they become vampires... too bad, it kind of weakens my desire to become a vampire
but thanks anyway :P
@@Asoeee I was answering about the eyes.😅 Act 3 was done by Larian in a hurry and they didn't add the character's appearance change after turning into a vampire. 😭
@@iamkittybg3 this is stupid...they had so many patches to fix it...
@@Asoeee Yeah, I wish they would take that into account. But for now I'm manually changing the eye color.
Ya'll are delusionnal as all hell 😂
Then again so am I :(
Come to the delusional side. We have the best food and drinks!
@@TrancerDesigns
I'm already there! It's a trap! I'm the food! I'm the drinks! HELP!
I don't like AA, but he isn't Cazador 2.0. He is new kind of vampire. I suppose he lost his soul after dark ritual and it changed his personality. But still he is evil in his own way. 🤔
To be honest SA isn't angel too.
Him losing his soul is just fanon, nothing in canon states that he lost his soul. Also "changed his personality", based on what Neil said, ascension is Astarion with the "mask off", him at his most terrible. It's just seeing a side to Astarion that has always been there.
I agree that spawn isn't an angel, Astarion is a very complex character and he doesn't magically become "good" just by rejecting the ritual.
You can find clips on UA-cam of Neil Newbon describing the ascended version of his character, it's really interesting ^^
He doesn't give his soul to anyone. He says it metaphorically when he remains a spawn, Karlach in the dialogue also says it metaphorically. He replaced himself with Cazador in the ritual and gave Cazador's soul instead of his own. In addition, if we look at the other companions, for example Wyll, who sold his soul to Zariel to save his father: his soul is with him until his death and only then goes to the devil. This is how DND works: it is impossible to immediately give up your soul and be soulless, the soul goes to the devil under a contract after the owner’s death. But again, Astarion did not promise his soul to anyone. After the ritual, he says that the deal with Mephistopheles is done and closed and he does not owe him anything.
I wanted to clarify this because fanon about this confuses people 😌
And I agree that spawn is not an angel either 🙃
@@minorkarendzo3702 but it didnt change his personality. Yes, after ritual his dark side grow a bit, but most of his reactions is same as spawn's.
@@Yaguarundi right, it merely took his mask off, he no longer needs to be careful out of fear someone could harm him. He can finally be himself.