Go to buyraycon.com/weezytf2 to get up to 25% off sitewide! Brought to you by Raycon. Appreciate all the responses for this video, might make a part 2 depending on how much more ground there is to cover. If there's anything that'd make for an interesting discussion that wasn't covered, drop it below this comment. Thanks gentz.
Funny story regarding Medigun viability: I was solo-queueing Boot Camp and ended up on a team where no one would play Engineer, and so while we were dealing good damage, we were all really struggling for ammo. The Medic equipped the Vaccinator and told us to just killbind whenever we ran out of ammo, and he could drop Vaccinator Ubers like candy to instantly revive us with full ammo. It was so damn stupid but it worked lmao
@@maskofthedragonSame, it doesn't count my wins for the achievement! I also did beta playtesting and was in the Steam group but never go the beta pin...
Community MVM is probably more fun than normal MVM. It’s free. It has a larger map variety. Since people have to go out of their way to find it, you really only find competent players. Only negative is you might be waiting a few minutes in the map for it to fill out. If anyone wants to try some out, there is a community tour going on right now.
Yeah at this point I only play mann up mvm to get a aussie or kill streak that most likely not going to get. Granted there are some maps that go overboard with crits robots, but I love how creative they can be.
Gas Passer is also now considered a liquid, so Pyrosharks are *slightly* more viable (Neon Annihilator). Which is to say "this isn't necessary, but it's a meme that's possible, if you're insane enough."
8:23, going off of this take, I recently played a match where a scout with 5 tours went damage scout. He missed 200 credits per wave and spent around 80% of the game respawning and got me killed because I was trying to revive him. The silver lining of all of this is that we didn't kick him in a spiral of rage and instead let him down calmly and got him to switch to another class. I'm shocked at how some people genuinely think damage scout is the way to go starting out.
I think it's because they watched underscore gaming guide without completely understanding the mode yet. But it works both ways because pure support scout isn't pulling all his weight either.
5:30 Important context is reasoning behind that change - before that, instead of High Tours leaving upon seeing Low Tours, High Tours just kicked Low Tours with bad upgrades, NOT taught them anything (speaking from experience of playing back then before the change as a low tour). That ultimately did not change the way High Tour Toxicity works, it just changed the way High Tours react. So its not like Valve ruined the poor High Tour Player's good hearted intention to help little newbies.
Yeah I was gonna say, if you bought like health regen or something objectively bad its gonna be a coinflip if the high tour is gonna tell you to refund or just kick you outright
@@skelskeleton Do remember, this was BEFORE every wave refunds too, so there was no refunding it for like 5 waves. So it wouldn't be a coinflip, it'd be like 90% of the time they kick the low tour, and 10% time they tell low tour that they suck, to never do it again and then carry them.
20:50 this may be the case on valve missions, but I think time between waves is a lot more important in community mvm. Since you usually aren't familiar with the missions and there are tons of custom bots, it takes longer to figure out what you need. Also, custom weapons and upgrades can be different on every map, so you have more to choose from.
Yeah. I think Weezy is mostly talking about Valve missions in this case because everyone has those memorized. But for community yeah you have some new stuff to learn.
12:12 Feel like it's good to note that it also goes the other way - new player (reasonably) sucks, high tour is a jackass, new player gets jaded, new player ignores other high tours. Both sides can start the cycle of mistrust.
Fun fact, I think Shounic made a video about adding the MvM sniper laser, although if i recall correctly it didn't change much other than more people avoiding sniper lanes and the emphasis on quickscoping for kills (which a lot of people do anyways)
Well it did help one thing that made sniper so frustrating and that is, you don't know if the sniper aiming and if you can approach that area until it too late. The lazer give you atleast an idea where the sniper aiming and the likes
I think another benefit is that hackusations (both accurate and false) would be improved overall. Like a giant ass laser that snaps to places constantly will be an obvious kick and more natural lasers mean you can safely ignore the butthurt scout who runs in straight lines
if you are a decent player, it doesn't change a thing, you already will be avoiding sniper sightlines like the plague and good snipers only quickscope I also just think the laser is an eyesore and would hate it being in game
@flamingscar5263 Anythjng could potentially become a nightlife so I think it's good to remove what could potentially be a super frustrating one shot. It would also reduce bodyshot charges since now it's way more obvious.
22:59 Love playing Hybridknight on Wave 666 with Iron Bomber, Chargin Targe, and Eyelander. Tons of damage and great mobility once you get the 4 heads.
Because some people legit need to use the bathroom, or grab a snack, or answer the phone, or go see why their brother is bleeding out on the floor. Reality is more important than video games.@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095
For the F4 rage rant: Unless I'm misunderstanding the take, they mean "f4 as soon as the wave ends before doing absolutely anything else". If everyone did that, it means that you have like 10 seconds (plus whatever time it takes for the robots to enter the field) to get your upgrades, reposition, and get set up. Which your Engie and Medic may not like if they need to build uber or buildings.
You dont even need more than 20 seconds to upgrade or change class + upgrade or refund + upgrade... Specially if what you play is just Valve missions where even unexperienced players know the waves by heart alredy (this isnt 2015 anymore) And it would not even matter if the wave started and you missed a couple seconds... Would rather miss a couple seconds of a wave rather than waste time becuase of some individual who is not upgrading nor being afk and just taunts (speaking mostly for community missions on this one where most of my experience is these days, there is currently an operation that ends tomorrow so is quite relevant at the time I type this)
@@simonnachreiner8380 You DO realise you can just change class or kill bind to immediately return to spawn yeah? And if they're medics who wants to keep uber, that's what 2-way tele is for. You don't have to physically run back to spawn to buy upgrades. MvM has very static building locations too, it's not like casual TF2 where you have to relocate it every 20-30s, and there're only a few spots tops for your buildings, so both Engi and Medic don't have excuses to needlessly drag out the wait time for everyone else. If you don't like watching a 20s ad on UA-cam, then you will also don't like waiting 60s for a guy to finish his shopping list EVERY WAVE.
@@rnlansdownemobileThis only applies for Valve missions since community takes some time getting used to the maps. Also note not every engineer will get 2 way and some class want to keep their buffs
the issue with community mvm implementation is gonna be they largely need an asset pack download to get in quickly to those events. you predownlaod a zip file and unzip it into your tf2 folder, then can join and not wait ten minutes downloading it through the game each mission.
If you evee have the desire to make Bad MvM Opinions 2, here's one Spies need to try out the Invis Watch instead of assuming the Dead Ringer is the best. With how dumb robots are, invisibility is almost as good as the Dead Ringer unless you're on fire or inside a minigun, and you can actually use the damn thing more than once in a row without dying. Being able to actually deal with every giant wave instead of dying/hiding in a corner for it to recharge is going to be massively more effective at sustaining your uptime. Also, Spy needs his own MVM update to give actual viable upgrades to the pistol, watches, sappers, and maybe Disguise Kit. That was he can actually have tools to mitigate his downsides vs tanks, small bots, disguise time/DR downtime, etc. I dunno, maybe his guns can get Explosive Headshot too or something.
Giving the ambassador explosive headshot happened in a community MvM mission and I don't think it's worth it unless you make a dedicated gunspy build. Most of the time it's better to just go for giant backstabs. But yeah I agree Spy needs a dedicated MvM update so he gets more stuff to do aside from killing giant robots which can be done by other classes easier and is screwed over by literally everything including his teammates sometimes. He needs more uses.
Problem is, Invis Watch just doesn't offer enough resistance to survive inherently spammy nature of MvM. Plus, as long as your cloak is damaged even a bit, robots can see you - something Dead Ringer counteracts by having shimmer-immune cloak for first few seconds, on top of speed boost to get to safety sooner.
@@ThatguycalledJoe Then you still have to find a place to hide and disguise, and you can't do so with the DR's cloak because that defeats the entire purpose of using the gun to charge it. With the invis watch you just disguise while invisible.
Mann literally installed robots with a *money furnace.* He is quite literally burning his money away, and we’re supposed to believe he’s a more competent businessman than his brothers?!
@@unbind_all I think that part of the joke, sure may seem smarter then his brothers, but he makes just as munch questionable decisions. I mean atleast gravel can be a useful source of construction.
As a person that plays Community MvM only, most of the "hot take" issues don't affect me, except Two Cities meta being used way more than it should. But, most people there are chill and gaming there is super fun. I would argue, it's the best way to experience MvM, with new maps, missions, mechanics, custom weapons, overclock upgrades, enemies (Blimps) and so on! Also, I would argue 2Cities missions are rather meh. Mannhattan has no Tanks, meaning that it's teams are a lot more meh, it's why 2 Cities Meta sucks vs Tanks, because of lack of it (or weak ones on Rottenburg). Limited exits and also very SLOW wave progression and speed (Bots come out slowly, and usually alone, esp. Giants). Another thing, is many Mvm Pros and speedrunners, actually consider Demo worse than Spy, due to his lower DPS than most classes, with only way to bypass it being Crit ScotRes (which requires Medic , kritz 24/7 and also, usually bad map so it works). Btw, on 13:13 the mission you played, has a Classic upgrade, that gives it like x10 fire rate, 100 shots, and allows you to become the Heavy, but light, with no Explosive Headshots. I did like 90k dmg with it. It's super funny.
Spy really needs a series of buffs, especially for MvM. Look, I understand the fear, I played TF2 since launch and remember what the original spy used to be. But right now, he's one of the weakest classes, if not the weakest, and sadly holds the status of the worst in MvM. Good spies can be really creative with him, but it really isn't enough. Spy needs a way to interact with tanks, maybe just slow them down a little bit when sapped, or even make a sapper apply a mini-crit effect. For giant robots, imagine that his sapper makes it quickly attack all smaller robots for a moment instead of just slowing them down. I know this is probably unrealistic for a game with so much spaghetti code, but it really stinks having watched my favorite class fall from grace so far.
I agree. Heck Spy deserves buffs in casual to make him more consistent and to keep up with the increasingly competent playerbase. Valve probably weren't balancing him around 10000 hour players roaming servers. Give him 150 health.
MVM should really have an Aussie system where after each completed tour, it gives you a higher chance for an Aussie (excluding the frying pan). If you’re 10 tours in and don’t have an Aussie? Tour 11 will have a higher chance for it to drop. I get Valve won’t do it because the games code is so knotted that a dryer won’t be able to magically untangle it, but it’s better than the current system of gambling.
I only get the "everybody leaves on wave 1" problem like 25% of the time while playing Boot Camp. It could be because I absolutely love team support, and it only takes two players who actually account for the rest of their team to keep the team alive. Any two-man combination of Medics, Engineers, or Soldiers can usually do the job. That being said, your other 3-4 teammates also need to know how to kill things. A Soldier or Engineer can output a lot of damage on their own, allowing them to carry their teams, but Medics aren't as fortunate. The best a Medic can do is Uberchain Giant Robots.
I went through a really fast arc on one very long, very sick Thanksgiving break a year or two back. I went from being a chill guy who just wanted to play the game to an incredibly irritable, annoying prick who started to “see what the high tours mean”. Luckily, I try my best to not act like that anymore lol
@20:19 For those who want *_The Hot Response_* of the video. Also here's a hot take of my own: if someone is on their 5th or so tour of Mecha Engine/Two Cities/Gear Grinder (and *_especially_* Gear Grinder), then they're probably not the stereotypical mindless low-tour n00b anymore and might even be receptive to feedback by that point -- they did have to successfully complete the operations multiple times already to get to where they are, after all.
That's true, I didn't even know that there were community mvm maps that you get stuff when completed, I wish valve would put the custom mvm maps in like a mvm even tab, I just found out that custom mvm maps were a thing until last month (I've been playing for 2 years)
Most of the time, community mvm makes tours at Halloween, fools day and summer. Usually, it’s a potato mvm, or moonlight mvm. Also, potato mvm have archived missions, that you can play at any time. There are more than 300 missions with different maps. Some of them beautiful, crazy difficult, some forces you to play only one class, other put you in a zombie survival, and some maps are so unique. There is even a reverse mvm, where you play as robots. Definitely try playing some missions, a lot of them also include custom weapons, and most of people actually know how to play mvm, and they use some tactics that are not familiar to Mann up, or even unwelcome there.
Main advantage of Quick-fix is knockback immunity - you do not have canteen for that, but there are multiple robots, that just send team flying. It also allows self-overheal for Medic, this allowing one to survive in chaotic mess, that is mid-wave, even when it's raining rockets and grenades. Vaccinator does have viability issues, as there is no upgrade to counteract it's overheal speed penalty, and there are melee robots straight up ignoring it, as you got no melee resistance. Kritzkrieg is "glass cannon" medigun - you got literally no extra survivability for yourself.
14:34 Top comment got in. I realized later it’s a pretty cold take, but based on my experiences, had no idea since everyone is a meta slave and are always uptight
11 днів тому+25
20:21 Counterpoint: Über takes more than 10 seconds to build, especially when helping a Demoman set up Scottish Resistance bombs.
As a medic main, I'm so tired of critting the demoman, everyone pressing f4, then me trying to build it up again while asking everyone to slow the hell down and feeling like shit because i'm the only one not pressing f4.
If you ever do part 2, I got one: I love using the BASE Jumper on both soldier & demoman. Yes it's not the best secondary/primary for these classes in MVM, but its just so fun to use in my opinion to divebomb targets as soldier with the begars bazooka & to create a minefield as demoman (especially pairing it with the Scottish Resistance) I dont care what anyone says, the BASE Jumper is my favorite utility in all of TF2 because its genuinely fun to fly around the map & catch targets off gaurd with rockets/stickies.
Meanwhile, I've played almost nothing but Potato/Moonlight MvM for the past 5 years, and Weezy's description of Boot Camp sounds indistinguishable from Mann Up to me. Oh, and many high-tours prefer Damage Scout because teams with Damage Scout are more likely to win. Yeah, A+ is great, but an A+ doesn't matter if you lose the wave and everyone ragequits. And I can't even remember the last time I saw a D credit rating, even on teams with no Scout at all. If the team is getting anything worse than a B or C, then there's a good chance the whole team just sucks. That can't be blamed on the Scout's upgrade path.
as a high tour, god i fucking love spy XD. for anyone looking to actually learn it, the most important part is learning the waves and positioning. normal spy skills for casual dont transfer over like you'd expect you need to know how to play mvm first
15:55 that’s sad and I’m not even saying that in a condescending way,I think it’s very sad how many high tours have gotten so used to toxicity that they just think it’s normal.
you know what, i like being the brass beast heavy that sits on a dispenser. maybe its just my damage/kill sounds, but i find it kind of relaxing to just sit there shooting stuff some times. there is also that same when to push and when to retreat game play, its just on a much smaller scale.
Also, even though we disagree on the quality of Boot Camp, I personally still have fun on it, my main point was always moreso on people who play exclusively for items, so I'm glad we agree on that! Honestly in hindsight I kinda wish I worded my comment better-
People who defended Bootcamp also need to realize rewards is what incentivizes people to do...well...anything to be honest. In fact, you firing that rocket in casual, you running to that health kit, you pressing kill bind randomly, all serves a purpose. You wanna hear that kill sound, you want the red blinking next to your health to go away, you want the other guy to kill bind with you. Saying MvM players are slaves to the rewards is pointless. As humans your brain is hard-wired to release dopamine to anything done as planned, to feel satisfied and motivates you to keep succeeding. If people like to play MvM because of rewards, why is that a bad thing? Hell, I know people with 1k tours and they're in just for that dopamine hit when an Australium pops up. Doesn't matter if it's gonna make up the cost, the thrill of it is what counts.
I think the issue is, while yes there are rewards in both and being incentivized by rewards is normal, one is basically slightly glorified gambling. When you add in the cost to play situation, a decent argument is that a number of players (with a higher concentration around those that are more toxic) are basically just addicts as you could level that the buy tickets, play, look for aussie loop is only slightly extended form of the buy chips, pull slot handle, wait for jackpot
10:41 The worst MVM take I have ever heard. I'm glad you aren't in charge of game design. Credit refunds shouldn't be punished, there is no reason to do a centrism on an anti-fun mechanic. That take was so bad that I don't even wanna watch the rest of the video.
5:20 yes, people can wait up to 30-minutes. You're American on populated servers in a time zone with many people playing. My ques are typically 20-minutes a shot on a Friday at 8pm
2:51 as someone with over 1500 hours in boot camp i am delighted that you are mentioning the absolute hell hole of shit that is the wave one nightmare. In addition to that, 7 times out of 10 theres a meta squealer, an afk, a first wave leaver (regardless of how it goes) or that one assbrained sausage who demands to declare everyones class.
Seriously as someone who does play mvm mann up and boot camp, i would arguably more toxicity and frustration. Mann up only get toxic when you get the grieves. Meanwhile boot camp you get people who throw in many different ways
Community MVM tours are the best part of the game mode, not only is it new maps, robots, and sometimes weapons/upgrades changes but it’s also a challenge on the higher difficulties Been playing them for a couple years now and it’s a great incentive to donate to charity as well
I remember playing MVM with a friend one time and I hadn't played it in years so it took me a bit to get all ready up and each wave if I took more than like 5 seconds this guy would say in chat something along the lines like "can you please hurry up, I just want to get this done, this isn't fun for me anymore, I'm just trying to get an Australium". Like goddamn mann, go see the sunshine every once in awhile. Watch the grass grow, see the birds fly. The best MVM match we had though was when this one guy would play each FNAF 1 phone call in its entirety for the beginning of each wave. It was hilarious 😂
I know I’m late and I have a few controversial opinions but one opinion I do have is that huntsman is good in mvm if not on par with the other sniper rifles. A couple of damage upgrades and reload upgrades and you can out damage most of the sniper rifles if you hit your headshots on giants. And yes I get it, there’s no explosive headshot big whoop. But you can still rack up a decent amount of collateral damage with projectile penetration when positioned correctly. Also it’s a lot cheaper then a few explosive headshot upgrades which allows you to spend more in reload which allows for more arrow spam which allows for more collateral damage. Also it’s just satisfying to watch one arrow rip through like 10 bots. Huntsman also allows you to be more efficient at close range but in mvm this attribute really shines. As you are more effective at close range or can spam arrows at long range rather than being only effective at long range with a sniper rifle. And because of this you can also be a lot more aggressive with jarating bots.
Hey heavy is kinda boring guy here. I think that I’m gonna try and use stock or even the huo long heater. My other main problem when I played heavy was moving and revving up the minigun was often not worth it because it took too long. I think I’m gonna try and play more offensively and have more variety in positioning. I’m hoping that I’ll be able to enjoy heavy more that way
Brass Beast makes Heavy way too passive at defending since he is forced to stay close to the dispenser at all times. I play with the stock Minigun and I have outdamaged Brass Beast Heavies just for the simple fact that I can move around and take advantage of damage ramp up against giants and bodyblock them while moving at 33% base rev speed. The Huo Long Heater is also another weapon that can surpass the Minigun in damage but it chews through ammo like crazy and requires strong investments on ammo capacity and ammo canteens. If you have a Pyro on your team or are good at bodyblocking, the weapon can be deadly when used properly.
I've played well over 1000 tours of mvm. Most high tours aren't toxic and it is just a few bad apples who gave us a bad rep. Back then in 2019-2020 the issue with tacobot was a big problem but nowdays def not. Most toxic people migrated to maribot and have their own little group. The odds of running into some guy who calls you a slur and idles for using gas or not pressing f4 quickly is lower than getting an australium. However even if so there is a simple solution, if you see a toxic asshole, just leave and reque, it really isn't that hard, its what i do if i see one of the bad guys. Not playing mvm bc of "toxic high tours" or calling all high tours assholes is just fearmongering because of 1 or 2 bad missions you had or just because of all the youtube vids you watched from years ago. The low tours who do not want to listen to the team when failing a wave are much worse than your average high tour.
honestly my biggest issue with all the unusual effects valve adds is that they dont add any of them for weapons, and for all the cool warpaints there are, its kinda lame there are only 3 unusual effects to go with them (theres a 4th one but that one has been discontinued so its not like you can even get it anymore)
Regarding the scout damage take, early game should be focused on getting money so cash demanding classes can set up for later in the game, once they have some breathing room, then scout should invest in damage or swap instead of being a milk dispenser who runs around dying every 30 seconds. Also people barely talk about how toxic some low tours can be. Sometimes a wave is lost and a high tour gives advice, but a low tour may snap back for being "bossed around." The worst I've seen was a 20-60 tour medic struggling to keep his team alive go "sorry guys I can only do so much before you die" and an airblast-happy 3 tour called him slurs and attempted a votekick. I know experienced players can be helpful, but they shouldn't be expected to solo carry helpless teammates, nor should they expect everyone to play perfectly without struggling. People need to realize MvM is a TEAM based gamemode, not an individualist pub gamble.
There's an experience imbalance and newbies don't see what the veterans see, so the perception of veterans being toxic isn't just because of human hostility, when they point out that the team would be stuck on each wave for an hour
Paying for a tour ticket is not just paying for loot but also better matchmaking. As someone who has exclusively dealt with boot camp since 2012 with very rare mann-up interactions, I've seen players who make me question if they've ever handled a mouse and keyboard. Engies nesting in roofs, engies turtling in the hatch, pyros walking into a giant and just stand there, literally stand there before the giant aggros on them and deletes them, heavies using tomislav from a roof, far away and shooting, engies using the disposable sentry, demoknights or demos using sticky jumper, the 99% of spy players. Enduring bootcamp is a constant challenge of trying not to get toxic.
Seriously I know some mann up matches can have toxicity, but dear god boot camp and at times community mvm will make you rage at the dipshit medic or pyro that makes you wonder if they even know how to play a game. Seriously, I had games where I was typing in all caps to tell the pyro or medic to ether deal with the tank or not using the syringe gun(that doesn't even have milk upgrade) only to get spiteful silence. Seriously, bad mvm players can be frustrating, especially if they don't take the advice.
Любые игры с РПГ-механикой сами по себе являются ядовитой свалкой для различных споров и разногласий по поводу того, что лучше в той или иной игре. Режим MVM в TF2 не является исключением, как и сам TF2..
I feel like spy does indeed need a massive overhaul but I think his ability to absolutely dog walk giants is overpowered. I say massively buff him in other areas, give him a new niche as a second money collector, but also tone down his ability to annihilate giants and he's balanced. I think if we threw in all his proposed balance changes while leaving his giant killing untouched he would be a problem.
"you'll never have to wait more than 30 minutes for another player" i stayed in a match of coal town waiting for players with this dude for so long he had the time to explain his entire DnD world in vivid detail, spent a good four days trying to find a match to end my tour
Bootcamp is very fun. As someone who enjoys challenge, Bootcamp is quite challenging. The times where you win the games are significantly smaller then mannup, sure. But it is rare to see a match with NO chance of winning. Mann-up, in contrast is SOOOO boring. At least in the manhatten-whatever-it's-called tour. You get to do nothing because the players have got the slotmachine down to such a science, that people like me, who wanna play MvM for the gameplay and the little happy meal reward at the end, will be bored out of their mind the entire way through, and then get 6-2 loot. Just because high-tours only play MvM as a glorified slotmachine and hate any semblance of challenge, doesn't mean evert MvM player shares that view.
If you want you can try Community MvM. You get players of decent skill level who know how the game mode works, communication is common for difficult machines, some of the missions have unique gimmicks and there are new kinds of robots. The only downside is sometimes really long waits before you find a server, but during the events like the one happening now there are tons of servers with people.
Counterargument: Bootcamp people have no incentives to win games, because there's no rewards at risk, so nobody is actually trying. And as much as you can argue playing is for fun, dying and having to watch the respawn timer slowly ticking down isn't. This is like saying you enjoy being steamrolled in casual. I installed TF2 to run around and shoot people, not walking out the spawn door and gets blown off by a demoman camping. And believe it or not, as you grow older, you'll realize your time is valuable. So even without rewards, you're still wasting your other resources on people who doesn't care about you. Weezy here said it perfectly: queue into boot camp, lose 1st wave, everybody leaves (or win that and had no money for 2nd wave so you're soft-locked), rinse repeat. Does that sound like a good time to you? When you pay for a ticket, people immediately changes attitude because they invested, so they're incentivized to try harder, and they expected more out of you too. It's kinda like paying for an expensive dinner vs paying pocket change for a McDonalds.
I mean... "Valve take of the inspection" is not a good way to think of the situation, here we ask about hight tour being the tocix player in there own game. They are the masters of the game and should do this "shitty part" to show the way to the new tours. "Yeah but i don't to teach i want to play...." It's in your right and you can but you will just lead to a new cycle of assholes that will do the same as you or be the good ones that will show the way. AND ! About the pro that will "help" by harrasing the new guys and tell them exactly which loadout take. Even if im a high tour i can see that's annoying af to have this feeling having a tryhard just giving you orders when you just want to play a damn game. AND F4, then maybe some people have something to do and you should just take this time to do something like everyone and a great boy ? Like awnser to your dm ? Your a damn MVM player optimization is your damn second name dude.
i think what hurts MvM the most is how rigid its meta is. most people (and myself included) play games to have fun, and you know what's not fun? being forced to run a specific loadout to meet the wave's damage/healing/ect. check, or just getting kicked from a game because you want to play in a way that's fun for you.
Also experiment with weapon can also make plahers discover discover new things. I mean people for a long time thought sniper was one of the weaker classes in mvm, only to discover, no he pretty powerful.
This is why I play community maps. MvM is like any single-player or co-op PvE game, if you play it over and over you end up being a speedrunner and just repeating the meta. So I enjoy constant new missions to keep it fresh
valve mvm being extremely easy compared to community mvm is all the more reason to go offmeta to make it spicy there's only really a handful of weapons that *shouldn't* be used because they aren't quite compatible with the gamemode (bfb, rocket jumper, pain train, holiday punch, gunslinger, classic, stock watch, c&d); otherwise if it deals damage, it can win the game. being able to use your loadout to its potential is more important than the loadout itself
![[TF2] 101 Ways to Succeed in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ab9ZE9-b40/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] 101 Ways to Succeed in MvM](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Cheating in MvM - The Case Continues](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VsTYx9GCA8E/mqdefault.jpg)
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Appreciate all the responses for this video, might make a part 2 depending on how much more ground there is to cover. If there's anything that'd make for an interesting discussion that wasn't covered, drop it below this comment. Thanks gentz.
no
Ooh new video delicious. Fucking delicious
8:47 naw that guy is smoking crack scout is for money grabbing dps is secondary
sponsor ends at 1:48 (it's also where the video really starts)
Chinese scam
Funny story regarding Medigun viability: I was solo-queueing Boot Camp and ended up on a team where no one would play Engineer, and so while we were dealing good damage, we were all really struggling for ammo. The Medic equipped the Vaccinator and told us to just killbind whenever we ran out of ammo, and he could drop Vaccinator Ubers like candy to instantly revive us with full ammo. It was so damn stupid but it worked lmao
It stupid and it works, then it not stupid as the miliary would say
Genius
Honestly that sounds really funny lmao
Sounds like that actually woulda been an interesting way to handle it and led to a nice change of scenery.
they didn't want to play engineer so badly that they would rather kill themselves lol
"I only have PASS time checked to farm the achievement" *shows achievement with 0 progress*
Yeah sounds about right
@minimum850 only qouing for a afternoon streight 2 wins
That stupid achievement doesn't even count half the wins
The only way to make it consistent was retrying during set up time
@@maskofthedragonSame, it doesn't count my wins for the achievement! I also did beta playtesting and was in the Steam group but never go the beta pin...
"Opinions are like assholes, I refuse to wipe mine" Wise words, wise words indeed
hope thats a joke or I'm going to have to
@@chickennuggetman2593going to have to what 😨
"I refuse to wipe my opinion"
-Weezy, 2024
Homeboy doesnt wipe 👍
@@fourteenants
>:)
Community MVM is probably more fun than normal MVM.
It’s free.
It has a larger map variety.
Since people have to go out of their way to find it, you really only find competent players.
Only negative is you might be waiting a few minutes in the map for it to fill out.
If anyone wants to try some out, there is a community tour going on right now.
Yeah at this point I only play mann up mvm to get a aussie or kill streak that most likely not going to get. Granted there are some maps that go overboard with crits robots, but I love how creative they can be.
Or the whole day if you ain't from US.
[überishispassion]
yeah but there is no gas passer
@@Redmont_if you need the gas passer to play mvm, that says a lot more about you than it says about community tours.
I be manning my machine until it versus
one of the quotes of all time
SUS
Real
I versus my Mann till I Machine
I Mann her V like a Machine
Gas Passer is also now considered a liquid, so Pyrosharks are *slightly* more viable (Neon Annihilator).
Which is to say "this isn't necessary, but it's a meme that's possible, if you're insane enough."
Only if they don't upgrade it wich also doesn't make it that good against giants
they finally made gas pyrosharkable? hell yesh
@@hexagonalchaos Yeah for a while now
Think since around the summer update give or take?
0:42 thank you for sharing didn’t need to know that
His name came from weasel porn what did you expect
It’s called “Anti Diddy technique”.
@@Mr.TwoFaceGuyYou’re gay for even saying that shit
@@Mr.TwoFaceGuy wtf my guy?
@@emeralddash1929if he tries to enter your back door, he will be met with crusty s**t.
MVM and bad opinions go together like weezy and his banana cosmetic
20:18 one thing to never say around Weezy
I cackled hearing Weezy crash out about F4 lmao
High tours when you don't F4 be like:
That one really got to him.
“Shoot them with the dehydration gun” ahh reaction
He actually broke lol
8:23, going off of this take, I recently played a match where a scout with 5 tours went damage scout. He missed 200 credits per wave and spent around 80% of the game respawning and got me killed because I was trying to revive him. The silver lining of all of this is that we didn't kick him in a spiral of rage and instead let him down calmly and got him to switch to another class.
I'm shocked at how some people genuinely think damage scout is the way to go starting out.
I think it's because they watched underscore gaming guide without completely understanding the mode yet. But it works both ways because pure support scout isn't pulling all his weight either.
1:04 holy shit, I thought you were a talking banana
I thought he was a talking banana too ngl
5:30 Important context is reasoning behind that change - before that, instead of High Tours leaving upon seeing Low Tours, High Tours just kicked Low Tours with bad upgrades, NOT taught them anything (speaking from experience of playing back then before the change as a low tour). That ultimately did not change the way High Tour Toxicity works, it just changed the way High Tours react. So its not like Valve ruined the poor High Tour Player's good hearted intention to help little newbies.
Yeah I was gonna say, if you bought like health regen or something objectively bad its gonna be a coinflip if the high tour is gonna tell you to refund or just kick you outright
@@skelskeleton Do remember, this was BEFORE every wave refunds too, so there was no refunding it for like 5 waves. So it wouldn't be a coinflip, it'd be like 90% of the time they kick the low tour, and 10% time they tell low tour that they suck, to never do it again and then carry them.
Disagree, when i was a low tour a high tour taught me the proper upgrades.
@@BIasphemousWas this before or after infinite refund was added?
@@mariustan9275 This was 2 years ago
MVM tickets should be a one time purchase like around 20 bucks and then you can play tours forever
You tring to patch Valve's infinite money glitch?
I see what you mean but the problem is that all mvm loot would lose all there value in weeks
what about a subscription-
Keep tickets, but also allow a one time Tour Pass.
But how can Weezy keep giving Valve infinite money then? Gamble in a normal way by buying crates and keys? Yuck!
20:50 this may be the case on valve missions, but I think time between waves is a lot more important in community mvm. Since you usually aren't familiar with the missions and there are tons of custom bots, it takes longer to figure out what you need. Also, custom weapons and upgrades can be different on every map, so you have more to choose from.
Yeah. I think Weezy is mostly talking about Valve missions in this case because everyone has those memorized. But for community yeah you have some new stuff to learn.
Weezy just bitching
“Less hp than Biden” I’m *DEAD*
😂
Died hearing that
Sure but he’s still a good president
12:12 Feel like it's good to note that it also goes the other way - new player (reasonably) sucks, high tour is a jackass, new player gets jaded, new player ignores other high tours. Both sides can start the cycle of mistrust.
1:50 sponsor skip!
My man
Thanks pookie.
Mwah
Danka
thanks goat
Fun fact, I think Shounic made a video about adding the MvM sniper laser, although if i recall correctly it didn't change much other than more people avoiding sniper lanes and the emphasis on quickscoping for kills (which a lot of people do anyways)
People did enjoy it more, since it gave more of a 2 way interaction
Well it did help one thing that made sniper so frustrating and that is, you don't know if the sniper aiming and if you can approach that area until it too late. The lazer give you atleast an idea where the sniper aiming and the likes
I think another benefit is that hackusations (both accurate and false) would be improved overall. Like a giant ass laser that snaps to places constantly will be an obvious kick and more natural lasers mean you can safely ignore the butthurt scout who runs in straight lines
if you are a decent player, it doesn't change a thing, you already will be avoiding sniper sightlines like the plague and good snipers only quickscope
I also just think the laser is an eyesore and would hate it being in game
@flamingscar5263 Anythjng could potentially become a nightlife so I think it's good to remove what could potentially be a super frustrating one shot. It would also reduce bodyshot charges since now it's way more obvious.
22:59 Love playing Hybridknight on Wave 666 with Iron Bomber, Chargin Targe, and Eyelander. Tons of damage and great mobility once you get the 4 heads.
@@MrLeftTurn why not use stock with its bigger explosion radius?
@@june9914 because the iron bomber has a cool sound
17:40 that was personal lol that’s the angriest I’ve ever seen wheezy
It's because he knows I was right
20:23
@@ninjaassassin27 What’s your justification?
Because some people legit need to use the bathroom, or grab a snack, or answer the phone, or go see why their brother is bleeding out on the floor. Reality is more important than video games.@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095
‘Do you have ears?’
No sorry mate, lost them five years ago
For the F4 rage rant: Unless I'm misunderstanding the take, they mean "f4 as soon as the wave ends before doing absolutely anything else". If everyone did that, it means that you have like 10 seconds (plus whatever time it takes for the robots to enter the field) to get your upgrades, reposition, and get set up. Which your Engie and Medic may not like if they need to build uber or buildings.
still plenty of time for instant rebuilding if needed
You dont even need more than 20 seconds to upgrade or change class + upgrade or refund + upgrade... Specially if what you play is just Valve missions where even unexperienced players know the waves by heart alredy (this isnt 2015 anymore)
And it would not even matter if the wave started and you missed a couple seconds...
Would rather miss a couple seconds of a wave rather than waste time becuase of some individual who is not upgrading nor being afk and just taunts (speaking mostly for community missions on this one where most of my experience is these days, there is currently an operation that ends tomorrow so is quite relevant at the time I type this)
@Ultra289
Very much map and class comp dependant.
Rottenburg is nice with the forward station. Mannhatten is not.
@@simonnachreiner8380 You DO realise you can just change class or kill bind to immediately return to spawn yeah? And if they're medics who wants to keep uber, that's what 2-way tele is for. You don't have to physically run back to spawn to buy upgrades.
MvM has very static building locations too, it's not like casual TF2 where you have to relocate it every 20-30s, and there're only a few spots tops for your buildings, so both Engi and Medic don't have excuses to needlessly drag out the wait time for everyone else. If you don't like watching a 20s ad on UA-cam, then you will also don't like waiting 60s for a guy to finish his shopping list EVERY WAVE.
@@rnlansdownemobileThis only applies for Valve missions since community takes some time getting used to the maps. Also note not every engineer will get 2 way and some class want to keep their buffs
20:25 Okay I take it back, this is the angriest I’ve ever seen Weezy, Jesus Christ.
“Less HP than Biden”
😂 Died hearing that
Actual baby rage
the issue with community mvm implementation is gonna be they largely need an asset pack download to get in quickly to those events. you predownlaod a zip file and unzip it into your tf2 folder, then can join and not wait ten minutes downloading it through the game each mission.
Dear God Uncle Dane started a hot take Renaissance
If you evee have the desire to make Bad MvM Opinions 2, here's one
Spies need to try out the Invis Watch instead of assuming the Dead Ringer is the best. With how dumb robots are, invisibility is almost as good as the Dead Ringer unless you're on fire or inside a minigun, and you can actually use the damn thing more than once in a row without dying. Being able to actually deal with every giant wave instead of dying/hiding in a corner for it to recharge is going to be massively more effective at sustaining your uptime.
Also, Spy needs his own MVM update to give actual viable upgrades to the pistol, watches, sappers, and maybe Disguise Kit. That was he can actually have tools to mitigate his downsides vs tanks, small bots, disguise time/DR downtime, etc.
I dunno, maybe his guns can get Explosive Headshot too or something.
Giving the ambassador explosive headshot happened in a community MvM mission and I don't think it's worth it unless you make a dedicated gunspy build. Most of the time it's better to just go for giant backstabs.
But yeah I agree Spy needs a dedicated MvM update so he gets more stuff to do aside from killing giant robots which can be done by other classes easier and is screwed over by literally everything including his teammates sometimes. He needs more uses.
@@mariustan9275 As long as you stab enough, Diamondback is better choice anyway.
Problem is, Invis Watch just doesn't offer enough resistance to survive inherently spammy nature of MvM. Plus, as long as your cloak is damaged even a bit, robots can see you - something Dead Ringer counteracts by having shimmer-immune cloak for first few seconds, on top of speed boost to get to safety sooner.
The thing about the Dead Ringer is that you can recharge it very quickly with L'Etranger. You just take three potshots and then you're back in there.
@@ThatguycalledJoe Then you still have to find a place to hide and disguise, and you can't do so with the DR's cloak because that defeats the entire purpose of using the gun to charge it. With the invis watch you just disguise while invisible.
"Crit sticky trap that will be blown up on some tiny bat scout with less HP than Biden" is CRAZY 🤣
One think I think we all agree that we don't approved gray mann replacing the mercs with AI.
Gray mann is just a tech bro
Mann literally installed robots with a *money furnace.* He is quite literally burning his money away, and we’re supposed to believe he’s a more competent businessman than his brothers?!
@@unbind_all I think that part of the joke, sure may seem smarter then his brothers, but he makes just as munch questionable decisions. I mean atleast gravel can be a useful source of construction.
@@starmaker75I sometimes think money in the tf2 universe has austrailium on it
“Uh, boss? Perhaps you can design robots that run on something OTHER than money?”
(Gray silently stares in bewilderment at the Scoutbot.)
As a person that plays Community MvM only, most of the "hot take" issues don't affect me, except Two Cities meta being used way more than it should. But, most people there are chill and gaming there is super fun. I would argue, it's the best way to experience MvM, with new maps, missions, mechanics, custom weapons, overclock upgrades, enemies (Blimps) and so on!
Also, I would argue 2Cities missions are rather meh. Mannhattan has no Tanks, meaning that it's teams are a lot more meh, it's why 2 Cities Meta sucks vs Tanks, because of lack of it (or weak ones on Rottenburg). Limited exits and also very SLOW wave progression and speed (Bots come out slowly, and usually alone, esp. Giants). Another thing, is many Mvm Pros and speedrunners, actually consider Demo worse than Spy, due to his lower DPS than most classes, with only way to bypass it being Crit ScotRes (which requires Medic , kritz 24/7 and also, usually bad map so it works).
Btw, on 13:13 the mission you played, has a Classic upgrade, that gives it like x10 fire rate, 100 shots, and allows you to become the Heavy, but light, with no Explosive Headshots. I did like 90k dmg with it. It's super funny.
Spy really needs a series of buffs, especially for MvM. Look, I understand the fear, I played TF2 since launch and remember what the original spy used to be. But right now, he's one of the weakest classes, if not the weakest, and sadly holds the status of the worst in MvM. Good spies can be really creative with him, but it really isn't enough. Spy needs a way to interact with tanks, maybe just slow them down a little bit when sapped, or even make a sapper apply a mini-crit effect. For giant robots, imagine that his sapper makes it quickly attack all smaller robots for a moment instead of just slowing them down. I know this is probably unrealistic for a game with so much spaghetti code, but it really stinks having watched my favorite class fall from grace so far.
Seriously spy would benefit the crash magenta that scout would have. Also please give damage upgrade on the reolver, heck make it cheap to upgrade.
Give him explosove headshot on ambassador for gunspy builds@@starmaker75
I agree. Heck Spy deserves buffs in casual to make him more consistent and to keep up with the increasingly competent playerbase. Valve probably weren't balancing him around 10000 hour players roaming servers. Give him 150 health.
MVM should really have an Aussie system where after each completed tour, it gives you a higher chance for an Aussie (excluding the frying pan). If you’re 10 tours in and don’t have an Aussie? Tour 11 will have a higher chance for it to drop. I get Valve won’t do it because the games code is so knotted that a dryer won’t be able to magically untangle it, but it’s better than the current system of gambling.
3:04 there is a lot of good teams on boot camp, weezy
I only get the "everybody leaves on wave 1" problem like 25% of the time while playing Boot Camp. It could be because I absolutely love team support, and it only takes two players who actually account for the rest of their team to keep the team alive. Any two-man combination of Medics, Engineers, or Soldiers can usually do the job. That being said, your other 3-4 teammates also need to know how to kill things. A Soldier or Engineer can output a lot of damage on their own, allowing them to carry their teams, but Medics aren't as fortunate. The best a Medic can do is Uberchain Giant Robots.
Most issues with boot camp mostly stem from most of the competent players following the as competent players who chase after the random loot drops.
I went through a really fast arc on one very long, very sick Thanksgiving break a year or two back. I went from being a chill guy who just wanted to play the game to an incredibly irritable, annoying prick who started to “see what the high tours mean”. Luckily, I try my best to not act like that anymore lol
@20:19
For those who want *_The Hot Response_* of the video.
Also here's a hot take of my own: if someone is on their 5th or so tour of Mecha Engine/Two Cities/Gear Grinder (and *_especially_* Gear Grinder), then they're probably not the stereotypical mindless low-tour n00b anymore and might even be receptive to feedback by that point -- they did have to successfully complete the operations multiple times already to get to where they are, after all.
Wake up, mister user... Wake up and watch weezy.
Rise and shine, Mr. User.
That's true, I didn't even know that there were community mvm maps that you get stuff when completed, I wish valve would put the custom mvm maps in like a mvm even tab, I just found out that custom mvm maps were a thing until last month (I've been playing for 2 years)
Most of the time, community mvm makes tours at Halloween, fools day and summer. Usually, it’s a potato mvm, or moonlight mvm. Also, potato mvm have archived missions, that you can play at any time. There are more than 300 missions with different maps. Some of them beautiful, crazy difficult, some forces you to play only one class, other put you in a zombie survival, and some maps are so unique. There is even a reverse mvm, where you play as robots. Definitely try playing some missions, a lot of them also include custom weapons, and most of people actually know how to play mvm, and they use some tactics that are not familiar to Mann up, or even unwelcome there.
Yeah those need to be promoted more often. Heck why aren't the included in a map rotation thing like pvp maps? Just add then to boot camp.
the angriest this guy ever got was when he was talking about how he dislikes waiting 90 seconds, lmfao
Promotion Skip Button: 1:51
. Gracias
Main advantage of Quick-fix is knockback immunity - you do not have canteen for that, but there are multiple robots, that just send team flying. It also allows self-overheal for Medic, this allowing one to survive in chaotic mess, that is mid-wave, even when it's raining rockets and grenades.
Vaccinator does have viability issues, as there is no upgrade to counteract it's overheal speed penalty, and there are melee robots straight up ignoring it, as you got no melee resistance. Kritzkrieg is "glass cannon" medigun - you got literally no extra survivability for yourself.
I play community mvm tours because I get a cool exclusive badge, it helps charity, and there's cool new maps
I play it for better matchmaking and more missions.
2:17 I actually do like the gameplay structure of MvM, but it's moreso that all the competent folk are all in Mann Up Mode.
You could try community, which is like bootcamp but where most of the people know what they're doing.
If I had a dollar for a TF2 creator releasing a hot takes video a day after another one I'd have one dollar. That is all.
It's probably happened a lot more, just from smaller creators.
@nert4285 probably, was just a two nickels joke parody and it was Great Blue's video on it then this one that came to mind
14:34 Top comment got in. I realized later it’s a pretty cold take, but based on my experiences, had no idea since everyone is a meta slave and are always uptight
20:21 Counterpoint: Über takes more than 10 seconds to build, especially when helping a Demoman set up Scottish Resistance bombs.
As a medic main, I'm so tired of critting the demoman, everyone pressing f4, then me trying to build it up again while asking everyone to slow the hell down and feeling like shit because i'm the only one not pressing f4.
This is why good teammates will self damage/you as the medic ask your team to self damage
@@PloVv-hu4qt If the team/demo is good he'll damage himself so you'll get your uber up again in less than 10s.
Say it with me, kids!
🎵Anything spy can do, sniper does better~
Sniper does everything better than spy!🎵
Btw it would be interesting if the mvm commmunity develeoped 1000 uncles strategies
Engineer fortress mvm edition?
Might actually be fun, since most players don’t seem two understand how bot ai works, especially with spy
@june9914 it seems to be different from mvm ai. The YER doesn't work in mvm, but is essential in 1000 uncles, as an example.
@@davitdavid7165 oh yeah that’s coz yer in mvm specifically has a disguise delay nerf
@@june9914 oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.
4:16 explosive headshot DOES NOT need more than 1 wave to be effective
If you ever do part 2, I got one: I love using the BASE Jumper on both soldier & demoman. Yes it's not the best secondary/primary for these classes in MVM, but its just so fun to use in my opinion to divebomb targets as soldier with the begars bazooka & to create a minefield as demoman (especially pairing it with the Scottish Resistance) I dont care what anyone says, the BASE Jumper is my favorite utility in all of TF2 because its genuinely fun to fly around the map & catch targets off gaurd with rockets/stickies.
Meanwhile, I've played almost nothing but Potato/Moonlight MvM for the past 5 years, and Weezy's description of Boot Camp sounds indistinguishable from Mann Up to me.
Oh, and many high-tours prefer Damage Scout because teams with Damage Scout are more likely to win. Yeah, A+ is great, but an A+ doesn't matter if you lose the wave and everyone ragequits. And I can't even remember the last time I saw a D credit rating, even on teams with no Scout at all. If the team is getting anything worse than a B or C, then there's a good chance the whole team just sucks. That can't be blamed on the Scout's upgrade path.
as a high tour, god i fucking love spy XD. for anyone looking to actually learn it, the most important part is learning the waves and positioning. normal spy skills for casual dont transfer over like you'd expect you need to know how to play mvm first
15:55 that’s sad and I’m not even saying that in a condescending way,I think it’s very sad how many high tours have gotten so used to toxicity that they just think it’s normal.
Eh the n word is fine- WHOA hold on did you just play with a cheater ? UNACCEPTABLE !!!
People bitch about toxicity too much, if you don't like them, mute them.
Imagine x1000 mvm tour or 100% crits mvm tour i would play to get a chance at an Australiam weapon
you know what, i like being the brass beast heavy that sits on a dispenser. maybe its just my damage/kill sounds, but i find it kind of relaxing to just sit there shooting stuff some times. there is also that same when to push and when to retreat game play, its just on a much smaller scale.
20:33 less HP than Biden 😂
There I am, gary, there I am!
Also, even though we disagree on the quality of Boot Camp, I personally still have fun on it, my main point was always moreso on people who play exclusively for items, so I'm glad we agree on that! Honestly in hindsight I kinda wish I worded my comment better-
People who defended Bootcamp also need to realize rewards is what incentivizes people to do...well...anything to be honest. In fact, you firing that rocket in casual, you running to that health kit, you pressing kill bind randomly, all serves a purpose. You wanna hear that kill sound, you want the red blinking next to your health to go away, you want the other guy to kill bind with you.
Saying MvM players are slaves to the rewards is pointless. As humans your brain is hard-wired to release dopamine to anything done as planned, to feel satisfied and motivates you to keep succeeding. If people like to play MvM because of rewards, why is that a bad thing? Hell, I know people with 1k tours and they're in just for that dopamine hit when an Australium pops up. Doesn't matter if it's gonna make up the cost, the thrill of it is what counts.
what if the Bootcamp missions give you scrap metal, tokens, normla weapons and some normal unique cosmetics?
@@drivanradosivic1357That would screw up the economy even more if the rewards are both free and tradable
I think the issue is, while yes there are rewards in both and being incentivized by rewards is normal, one is basically slightly glorified gambling.
When you add in the cost to play situation, a decent argument is that a number of players (with a higher concentration around those that are more toxic) are basically just addicts as you could level that the buy tickets, play, look for aussie loop is only slightly extended form of the buy chips, pull slot handle, wait for jackpot
10:41 The worst MVM take I have ever heard. I'm glad you aren't in charge of game design. Credit refunds shouldn't be punished, there is no reason to do a centrism on an anti-fun mechanic.
That take was so bad that I don't even wanna watch the rest of the video.
5:20 yes, people can wait up to 30-minutes. You're American on populated servers in a time zone with many people playing. My ques are typically 20-minutes a shot on a Friday at 8pm
Except Weezy is Canadian
Ah, my mistake. Point still stands though, fella still lives in a populated server area and popular time zone
@@thelivingglitch1371
That's still North America, server matchmaking wise.
2:51 as someone with over 1500 hours in boot camp i am delighted that you are mentioning the absolute hell hole of shit that is the wave one nightmare. In addition to that, 7 times out of 10 theres a meta squealer, an afk, a first wave leaver (regardless of how it goes) or that one assbrained sausage who demands to declare everyones class.
Seriously as someone who does play mvm mann up and boot camp, i would arguably more toxicity and frustration. Mann up only get toxic when you get the grieves. Meanwhile boot camp you get people who throw in many different ways
Community MVM tours are the best part of the game mode, not only is it new maps, robots, and sometimes weapons/upgrades changes but it’s also a challenge on the higher difficulties
Been playing them for a couple years now and it’s a great incentive to donate to charity as well
I remember playing MVM with a friend one time and I hadn't played it in years so it took me a bit to get all ready up and each wave if I took more than like 5 seconds this guy would say in chat something along the lines like "can you please hurry up, I just want to get this done, this isn't fun for me anymore, I'm just trying to get an Australium". Like goddamn mann, go see the sunshine every once in awhile. Watch the grass grow, see the birds fly.
The best MVM match we had though was when this one guy would play each FNAF 1 phone call in its entirety for the beginning of each wave. It was hilarious 😂
Oh damn there I am Gary!! 16:10 Thanks for the response and ultra-rare Weezy in casual mode footage, great vid🖤🖤🖤
I know I’m late and I have a few controversial opinions but one opinion I do have is that huntsman is good in mvm if not on par with the other sniper rifles. A couple of damage upgrades and reload upgrades and you can out damage most of the sniper rifles if you hit your headshots on giants. And yes I get it, there’s no explosive headshot big whoop. But you can still rack up a decent amount of collateral damage with projectile penetration when positioned correctly. Also it’s a lot cheaper then a few explosive headshot upgrades which allows you to spend more in reload which allows for more arrow spam which allows for more collateral damage. Also it’s just satisfying to watch one arrow rip through like 10 bots. Huntsman also allows you to be more efficient at close range but in mvm this attribute really shines. As you are more effective at close range or can spam arrows at long range rather than being only effective at long range with a sniper rifle. And because of this you can also be a lot more aggressive with jarating bots.
Hey heavy is kinda boring guy here. I think that I’m gonna try and use stock or even the huo long heater. My other main problem when I played heavy was moving and revving up the minigun was often not worth it because it took too long. I think I’m gonna try and play more offensively and have more variety in positioning. I’m hoping that I’ll be able to enjoy heavy more that way
Brass Beast makes Heavy way too passive at defending since he is forced to stay close to the dispenser at all times.
I play with the stock Minigun and I have outdamaged Brass Beast Heavies just for the simple fact that I can move around and take advantage of damage ramp up against giants and bodyblock them while moving at 33% base rev speed.
The Huo Long Heater is also another weapon that can surpass the Minigun in damage but it chews through ammo like crazy and requires strong investments on ammo capacity and ammo canteens. If you have a Pyro on your team or are good at bodyblocking, the weapon can be deadly when used properly.
I've played well over 1000 tours of mvm. Most high tours aren't toxic and it is just a few bad apples who gave us a bad rep. Back then in 2019-2020 the issue with tacobot was a big problem but nowdays def not. Most toxic people migrated to maribot and have their own little group. The odds of running into some guy who calls you a slur and idles for using gas or not pressing f4 quickly is lower than getting an australium. However even if so there is a simple solution, if you see a toxic asshole, just leave and reque, it really isn't that hard, its what i do if i see one of the bad guys. Not playing mvm bc of "toxic high tours" or calling all high tours assholes is just fearmongering because of 1 or 2 bad missions you had or just because of all the youtube vids you watched from years ago. The low tours who do not want to listen to the team when failing a wave are much worse than your average high tour.
I would wager that the portion of MVM players who are high tour, Mann Up only is a lot lower than people might think.
honestly my biggest issue with all the unusual effects valve adds is that they dont add any of them for weapons, and for all the cool warpaints there are, its kinda lame there are only 3 unusual effects to go with them (theres a 4th one but that one has been discontinued so its not like you can even get it anymore)
Weezy turning into toxic mvm player
1:03 is that papas pizzeria music?
Two tf2 hot take videos from respected tf2bers in one day?!
Valve, the player base is overstimulated. Add random crits to comp again
0:41 That was a good subversion. Genuinely laughed aloud. Definitely stealing that.
Regarding the scout damage take, early game should be focused on getting money so cash demanding classes can set up for later in the game, once they have some breathing room, then scout should invest in damage or swap instead of being a milk dispenser who runs around dying every 30 seconds.
Also people barely talk about how toxic some low tours can be. Sometimes a wave is lost and a high tour gives advice, but a low tour may snap back for being "bossed around." The worst I've seen was a 20-60 tour medic struggling to keep his team alive go "sorry guys I can only do so much before you die" and an airblast-happy 3 tour called him slurs and attempted a votekick. I know experienced players can be helpful, but they shouldn't be expected to solo carry helpless teammates, nor should they expect everyone to play perfectly without struggling. People need to realize MvM is a TEAM based gamemode, not an individualist pub gamble.
There's an experience imbalance and newbies don't see what the veterans see, so the perception of veterans being toxic isn't just because of human hostility, when they point out that the team would be stuck on each wave for an hour
My bad MVM opinion is that Weezy should stop walking towards me with that Banana suit on
Paying for a tour ticket is not just paying for loot but also better matchmaking. As someone who has exclusively dealt with boot camp since 2012 with very rare mann-up interactions, I've seen players who make me question if they've ever handled a mouse and keyboard.
Engies nesting in roofs, engies turtling in the hatch, pyros walking into a giant and just stand there, literally stand there before the giant aggros on them and deletes them, heavies using tomislav from a roof, far away and shooting, engies using the disposable sentry, demoknights or demos using sticky jumper, the 99% of spy players.
Enduring bootcamp is a constant challenge of trying not to get toxic.
Seriously I know some mann up matches can have toxicity, but dear god boot camp and at times community mvm will make you rage at the dipshit medic or pyro that makes you wonder if they even know how to play a game. Seriously, I had games where I was typing in all caps to tell the pyro or medic to ether deal with the tank or not using the syringe gun(that doesn't even have milk upgrade) only to get spiteful silence. Seriously, bad mvm players can be frustrating, especially if they don't take the advice.
@@starmaker75 I'm sure raging in caps lock at the mute f2p players is a productive use of your time
Recall cans are slept on more than ammo cans.
Community MvM is 100x better than official one
Oh hey, I got in the video! Awesome! Thx for the amazing content like usual Weezy
just got back to your videos and you immediately posted a video a minute later
"two cities has the best map design" is the most controversial take in the entire video
💀💀💀
sponsor ends at 1:48 (it's also where the video really starts)
But I really want those ray con
I love the fact that this comment has 7 likes right now, but it's the first one I see in the comment section after the pin.
Promotion Skip Button: 1:51
1:02 bro looks like bro never missed any mewing streak 🗣️
i have a problem that i cant find a single MvM match and its taking ages, i havent played MvM for months
23:20 dude the ninja jumpscare
i was hoping that you uploaded, and here i am, 10 minutes after the upload time
Любые игры с РПГ-механикой сами по себе являются ядовитой свалкой для различных споров и разногласий по поводу того, что лучше в той или иной игре. Режим MVM в TF2 не является исключением, как и сам TF2..
I am Pyro. I became real.
Holy shit pyrofromtf2.
No *backstabs* you filthy casual.
epic
Thats crazy
Yo guys it’s Pyro, Kick him
I feel like spy does indeed need a massive overhaul but I think his ability to absolutely dog walk giants is overpowered. I say massively buff him in other areas, give him a new niche as a second money collector, but also tone down his ability to annihilate giants and he's balanced. I think if we threw in all his proposed balance changes while leaving his giant killing untouched he would be a problem.
I avoid like 2/3 of these issues by only playing Mann Up with friends lol.
"you'll never have to wait more than 30 minutes for another player" i stayed in a match of coal town waiting for players with this dude for so long he had the time to explain his entire DnD world in vivid detail, spent a good four days trying to find a match to end my tour
Bootcamp is very fun. As someone who enjoys challenge, Bootcamp is quite challenging. The times where you win the games are significantly smaller then mannup, sure. But it is rare to see a match with NO chance of winning.
Mann-up, in contrast is SOOOO boring. At least in the manhatten-whatever-it's-called tour. You get to do nothing because the players have got the slotmachine down to such a science, that people like me, who wanna play MvM for the gameplay and the little happy meal reward at the end, will be bored out of their mind the entire way through, and then get 6-2 loot.
Just because high-tours only play MvM as a glorified slotmachine and hate any semblance of challenge, doesn't mean evert MvM player shares that view.
If you want you can try Community MvM. You get players of decent skill level who know how the game mode works, communication is common for difficult machines, some of the missions have unique gimmicks and there are new kinds of robots. The only downside is sometimes really long waits before you find a server, but during the events like the one happening now there are tons of servers with people.
Counterargument: Bootcamp people have no incentives to win games, because there's no rewards at risk, so nobody is actually trying. And as much as you can argue playing is for fun, dying and having to watch the respawn timer slowly ticking down isn't. This is like saying you enjoy being steamrolled in casual. I installed TF2 to run around and shoot people, not walking out the spawn door and gets blown off by a demoman camping.
And believe it or not, as you grow older, you'll realize your time is valuable. So even without rewards, you're still wasting your other resources on people who doesn't care about you. Weezy here said it perfectly: queue into boot camp, lose 1st wave, everybody leaves (or win that and had no money for 2nd wave so you're soft-locked), rinse repeat. Does that sound like a good time to you?
When you pay for a ticket, people immediately changes attitude because they invested, so they're incentivized to try harder, and they expected more out of you too. It's kinda like paying for an expensive dinner vs paying pocket change for a McDonalds.
I mean... "Valve take of the inspection" is not a good way to think of the situation, here we ask about hight tour being the tocix player in there own game.
They are the masters of the game and should do this "shitty part" to show the way to the new tours.
"Yeah but i don't to teach i want to play...."
It's in your right and you can but you will just lead to a new cycle of assholes that will do the same as you or be the good ones that will show the way.
AND !
About the pro that will "help" by harrasing the new guys and tell them exactly which loadout take. Even if im a high tour i can see that's annoying af to have this feeling having a tryhard just giving you orders when you just want to play a damn game.
AND
F4, then maybe some people have something to do and you should just take this time to do something like everyone and a great boy ? Like awnser to your dm ? Your a damn MVM player optimization is your damn second name dude.
11:33 How was conch used twice ?
Visual bug
Bro hates the 90 second goon sesh between rounds 💀💀💀
i think what hurts MvM the most is how rigid its meta is. most people (and myself included) play games to have fun, and you know what's not fun? being forced to run a specific loadout to meet the wave's damage/healing/ect. check, or just getting kicked from a game because you want to play in a way that's fun for you.
Also experiment with weapon can also make plahers discover discover new things. I mean people for a long time thought sniper was one of the weaker classes in mvm, only to discover, no he pretty powerful.
This is why I play community maps. MvM is like any single-player or co-op PvE game, if you play it over and over you end up being a speedrunner and just repeating the meta. So I enjoy constant new missions to keep it fresh
@@ThornskadeYeah same.
I think this is a consequence if how old MvM is and it's last update being 11 years ago.
valve mvm being extremely easy compared to community mvm is all the more reason to go offmeta to make it spicy
there's only really a handful of weapons that *shouldn't* be used because they aren't quite compatible with the gamemode (bfb, rocket jumper, pain train, holiday punch, gunslinger, classic, stock watch, c&d); otherwise if it deals damage, it can win the game. being able to use your loadout to its potential is more important than the loadout itself
Despite never playing MvM and sticking to multiplayer, I love these videos.
i just wish spy could pick up money like scout
"Less HP than Biden" is an amazing quote
😂
Died hearing that
He remembered the password
real
dawg it's only been a month 💀
Is this real
This isnt real