50% of Trane’s have an LG scroll and the other 50% has the Alliance scroll. I saw a few brand new commercial Precedent series systems delivered, and they actually have Copeland scrolls.
LG compressors have had worse issues than the Alliance compressors have. They also have a much cheaper paint job that rusts easily. LG compressors are junk.
The two units that you’re showing with different compresses are also different tonnages. One is a 6036, which is a 3 ton and the other one is a 6060 which is a five ton so yes they would very well have different compressors.
Hope they end up changing it . But I was scrapping a older Trane maybe 11 years old . It had the orange painted scroll compressor that said Trane on it but at the bottom it said alliance compressor. But who knows I hope there is a change !
@@themoderntradesmen9352 So I had a power flicker on my unit. My installer said that the thermostat is programmed now to wait 15 minutes to start again if that happens. I watched it work. Now, if you don't have a Trane thermostat I would be concerned without that hard wired addition. Cheers.
@@themoderntradesmen9352 have you had any issues with aluminum evaporate coils leaking with trane? I’ve heard other have some issues as well. I thought that they all were copper?
Usually, Alliance compressors painted black are just re-labelled Copeland compressors. The first unit did not look like a Copeland and it was missing the discharge port check valve 'knob' on compressor shell at the discharge port that newer Copeland compressors have. Second unit looks like a re-labelled black painted Copeland compressor. First unit compressor is likely a Korean manufacturer, maybe Samsung. If the air handler is electronic controlled EEV valve system, a power glitch timeout switch in compressor contactor 24vac path at outside unit results in air handler continuing to run without a running compressor which eventually sets off a superheat alarm red LED due to EEV opening fully trying to feed more refrigerant when compressor is off waiting for time-out timer. On EEV Trane systems you can put it in series with YI line from thermostat compressor call line at air handler, same situation as Trane recommends for generic off-the-shelf, normally closed condensate switch. Just have to make sure YI line draws at least 50 mA when there is active call which is minimum pass current for cutout timer switch. Trane has their own condensate switch which is normally open switch going to AFC board controller but of course they charge much more $$$ for. Many of the new electronic thermostats include power glitch timeouts but they need COM 'C' 24vac return wire to be able to sense a power glitch. Some electronic thermostats can run on batteries without 'C' line but they will not have the power glitch sensing without 'C' line connected. Just about all the WiFi equipped thermostats need 'C' line to power thermostat because they draw too much power to run on batteries very long. The Trane large condenser, high SEER units are a good choice for hot Phoenix area, but Trane has had issues controlling off-state liquid flood back to compressor causing hard-starts due to large refrigerant load with the large condensers. Trane, when units turns off, closes down EEV and uses compressor check valve to trap refrigerant in condenser during off state reducing possible off-state liquid flood back. Problem is as unit gets older the compressor check valve leaks. You can check high side pressure. It should stay high for several hours after shutdown if check valve is good. Once condenser cools down, much of refrigerant turns into liquid in condenser relieving pressure.
The Climate tough compressors were great compressors and Lennox made a very durable compressor as well. But Copeland scroll shut them both down when it came out.
I was told years ago when Copeland came out with the scroll compressor that if they wanted to use their compressor in their products they would have to stop making their own compressors. Lennox never retooled and shut down their compressor plant. Trane did too for a few years but they retooled and made their own scroll compressors Reliatel is what they called theirs and still do. Both Lennox said Trane made some bulletproof compressors but they were reciprocal compressors and everyone was getting away from those compressors due to government regulations on energy efficiency.
I've had 5 compressors go out this spring. All around 2 to 3 years old. All 2 tons "grenaded", shooting shrapnel down the suction line. Very disappointing
Dont really Like trane , or A S & its been awhile but most trane compressors Ive seen over the years back were The Color Blue , made by who ? not sure , have you ever seen the Blue ones ? My scrap yard used to be full of them / retired Now after 35 ys in
I retired from hvacr after forty years. The blue ones were either Danfoss and there was one other compressor manufacturer that painted their compressors blue but were only used in Tranes commercial units. I don’t remember their name but that’s what happens when you retire your memory goes kaput.😂 Lennox also used make their own compressors but Copeland told A/C manufacturers if they were going to use their scroll compressors they would have to shut down manufacturing their own compressors. Trane quit making the Climatuff compressors because they just wouldn’t break and the government stepped in about energy efficiency.
@@themoderntradesmen9352 Not sure. But in my opinion Trane is riding on a past reputation. Rheem and Carrier are also good. They need to make their Climatuff reciprocatings again for single stage
I honestly don't have the answer to that but in my 10 plus years of experience I've changed probably 2 or 3 of the Copeland compressors and I lost count of how many of the alliance compressors I've done
@@themoderntradesmen9352 Such a mess when the DOE gets involved with business professionals. They touted all new refrig for 2023 yet here we are will customers NOT getting the new and eventually having to suffer later when 410a is scarce and expensive. I've heard of the SEER2 "changes" which aren't really much of a change. The worse part of these refrig changes are there is no operational cost benefits to the consumers that have any value to them. Consumers also should be getting 10+ year warranty on compressors and coils so the manuf keep up quality standards to justify cost increases. I'd really like to see the natural gas condensers get flooded on the market...they work so well and for cheap operation.
@@sprockkets If you are in the HVAC industry, maybe you should consult the industry to stop advertising 410a will come to a hault by Jan 2023 for manufacturers. I get my information from HVAC folks on UA-cam and most of them are legetimate businesses. I do my research so apparently the HVAC folks just want to get the attention "Its no longer in new systems". Also, you might comment vs. complain about your facts vs. mine.
@@Garth2011 You basically take a simple fact then go on ranting about stuff you don't know. R410a equipment is being phased out, but the refrigerant will still be made, unlike R22. When a replacement for R22 and thus for R410a was selected, they had to pick something that works well with installed line set sizes and pressures, so that it causes the least amount of friction.
50% of Trane’s have an LG scroll and the other 50% has the Alliance scroll. I saw a few brand new commercial Precedent series systems delivered, and they actually have Copeland scrolls.
pass on the alliance compressors
LG compressors have had worse issues than the Alliance compressors have. They also have a much cheaper paint job that rusts easily. LG compressors are junk.
We just had a new Trane XR installed today and it has an Alliance
What type of compressor would be in a 1985 2-Ton R-22 Trans ? Still running like new. Love it.
Bulletproof GE reciprocating rotolok pumpkin. Tanks.
You'll have a good compressor unlike these
The two units that you’re showing with different compresses are also different tonnages. One is a 6036, which is a 3 ton and the other one is a 6060 which is a five ton so yes they would very well have different compressors.
Hope they end up changing it . But I was scrapping a older Trane maybe 11 years old . It had the orange painted scroll compressor that said Trane on it but at the bottom it said alliance compressor. But who knows I hope there is a change !
The big issue was in recent years with the alliance compressors going bad early on. I hope they change them all soon
Is that for the 2 stage or 1 stage compressor on those Trane's? My Trane dealer said this isn't a problem.
It's a 2 stage, don't believe everything your dealer tells you IMO
@@themoderntradesmen9352 So I had a power flicker on my unit. My installer said that the thermostat is programmed now to wait 15 minutes to start again if that happens. I watched it work. Now, if you don't have a Trane thermostat I would be concerned without that hard wired addition. Cheers.
So question I’m thinking about replacing my old trane system from a 3 to a 3.5 ton trane and I was wounding what is a good model with the new pumps.
just make sure they don't have the alliance 2 stage compressors
@@themoderntradesmen9352 have you had any issues with aluminum evaporate coils leaking with trane? I’ve heard other have some issues as well. I thought that they all were copper?
My 2018 XR13 3 ton simply says Trane on the compressor. I was told it’s an LG. That makes me very unhappy.
remember it's not every compressor that's gonna have this issue but prepare for the worst
Trane xr 1 stage alliance okay? Or does it need delay also?
does not need the relay
The first unit is a Trane 2 stage compressor, not the same units. Other is single stage ALLIENCE.
you're incorrect sir, look up the model numbers. Also check out how they both have an additional plug (unloader) at the compressor.
Usually, Alliance compressors painted black are just re-labelled Copeland compressors. The first unit did not look like a Copeland and it was missing the discharge port check valve 'knob' on compressor shell at the discharge port that newer Copeland compressors have. Second unit looks like a re-labelled black painted Copeland compressor. First unit compressor is likely a Korean manufacturer, maybe Samsung.
If the air handler is electronic controlled EEV valve system, a power glitch timeout switch in compressor contactor 24vac path at outside unit results in air handler continuing to run without a running compressor which eventually sets off a superheat alarm red LED due to EEV opening fully trying to feed more refrigerant when compressor is off waiting for time-out timer.
On EEV Trane systems you can put it in series with YI line from thermostat compressor call line at air handler, same situation as Trane recommends for generic off-the-shelf, normally closed condensate switch. Just have to make sure YI line draws at least 50 mA when there is active call which is minimum pass current for cutout timer switch. Trane has their own condensate switch which is normally open switch going to AFC board controller but of course they charge much more $$$ for.
Many of the new electronic thermostats include power glitch timeouts but they need COM 'C' 24vac return wire to be able to sense a power glitch. Some electronic thermostats can run on batteries without 'C' line but they will not have the power glitch sensing without 'C' line connected. Just about all the WiFi equipped thermostats need 'C' line to power thermostat because they draw too much power to run on batteries very long.
The Trane large condenser, high SEER units are a good choice for hot Phoenix area, but Trane has had issues controlling off-state liquid flood back to compressor causing hard-starts due to large refrigerant load with the large condensers. Trane, when units turns off, closes down EEV and uses compressor check valve to trap refrigerant in condenser during off state reducing possible off-state liquid flood back. Problem is as unit gets older the compressor check valve leaks. You can check high side pressure. It should stay high for several hours after shutdown if check valve is good. Once condenser cools down, much of refrigerant turns into liquid in condenser relieving pressure.
appreciate the very knowledgeable comment!
should ask the trane dealers for some documentation and see what's up. Can't find anything online
I'll be talking to the rep about it soon
The Climate tough compressors were great compressors and Lennox made a very durable compressor as well. But Copeland scroll shut them both down when it came out.
Agreed
Did Copeland buy them out or just outproduce them with a better compressor?
I was told years ago when Copeland came out with the scroll compressor that if they wanted to use their compressor in their products they would have to stop making their own compressors. Lennox never retooled and shut down their compressor plant. Trane did too for a few years but they retooled and made their own scroll compressors Reliatel is what they called theirs and still do. Both Lennox said Trane made some bulletproof compressors but they were reciprocal compressors and everyone was getting away from those compressors due to government regulations on energy efficiency.
I've had 5 compressors go out this spring. All around 2 to 3 years old. All 2 tons "grenaded", shooting shrapnel down the suction line. Very disappointing
aw man that's tough
Dont really Like trane , or A S & its been awhile but most trane compressors Ive seen over the years back were The Color Blue , made by who ? not sure , have you ever seen the Blue ones ? My scrap yard used to be full of them / retired Now after 35 ys in
Trane is ok IMO at best and the blue compressors were used a long time ago, only saw a few, the black or orange is more common these days
I retired from hvacr after forty years. The blue ones were either Danfoss and there was one other compressor manufacturer that painted their compressors blue but were only used in Tranes commercial units. I don’t remember their name but that’s what happens when you retire your memory goes kaput.😂 Lennox also used make their own compressors but Copeland told A/C manufacturers if they were going to use their scroll compressors they would have to shut down manufacturing their own compressors. Trane quit making the Climatuff compressors because they just wouldn’t break and the government stepped in about energy efficiency.
I'm in North Phoenix do you have contact info?
Sure, 6029232889 ask for Jay from UA-cam!
That’s a rebadged LG scroll.
I want to know how long before they come out with an email announcing the change
@@themoderntradesmen9352 Not sure. But in my opinion Trane is riding on a past reputation. Rheem and Carrier are also good. They need to make their Climatuff reciprocatings again for single stage
@@arcticarrowhvacr Ha, they don't make them like GE use to.
@@sprockkets Right. Trane claims spine fin was their thing but all you have to do is look at a vintage GE window/wall unit from the 60s. Spine fin.
@@arcticarrowhvacr Well they bought them out. Course in reality, American Standard did that while Trane was another name brought in.
I mean, wasn't the old Alliance compressor just really, a Copeland anyhow? They were part of the "alliance."
I honestly don't have the answer to that but in my 10 plus years of experience I've changed probably 2 or 3 of the Copeland compressors and I lost count of how many of the alliance compressors I've done
I thought in 2023 410a was no longer used.
there's been some major changes to the seer rating and the match ups but refrigerant changes are on the schedule for the future but no date yet
@@themoderntradesmen9352 Such a mess when the DOE gets involved with business professionals. They touted all new refrig for 2023 yet here we are will customers NOT getting the new and eventually having to suffer later when 410a is scarce and expensive. I've heard of the SEER2 "changes" which aren't really much of a change. The worse part of these refrig changes are there is no operational cost benefits to the consumers that have any value to them. Consumers also should be getting 10+ year warranty on compressors and coils so the manuf keep up quality standards to justify cost increases.
I'd really like to see the natural gas condensers get flooded on the market...they work so well and for cheap operation.
@@Garth2011 That's because r410a is NOT completely being phased out. Sheesh you need an education stat bro.
@@sprockkets If you are in the HVAC industry, maybe you should consult the industry to stop advertising 410a will come to a hault by Jan 2023 for manufacturers. I get my information from HVAC folks on UA-cam and most of them are legetimate businesses. I do my research so apparently the HVAC folks just want to get the attention "Its no longer in new systems". Also, you might comment vs. complain about your facts vs. mine.
@@Garth2011 You basically take a simple fact then go on ranting about stuff you don't know.
R410a equipment is being phased out, but the refrigerant will still be made, unlike R22.
When a replacement for R22 and thus for R410a was selected, they had to pick something that works well with installed line set sizes and pressures, so that it causes the least amount of friction.