Evgeni's show and tell being toothpaste was an incredible plot twist, I was expecting something extravagent as always and the disappointment was almost great
13:00 It would seem to refer to plastic and aplastic deformation. That is if you really want to permanently change a shape, it will take Cohesion, but if you want to temporarily change mechanical properties, it needs Tension. That is the stone is liquid only with respect to the Stoneshaper. If you and me hit it, it still breaks bones. 31:00 Soulcasting is also affected by an object's history. Hence things have memories in the Cosmere. 1:28:00 What is the Singers using rhythms to grow crops better other than a weak form of Progression? They still have Surges, they just are not aware of that. 1:35:00 How would stones understand Desolations and the Oathpact? Since Aharietiam no Fused turned up. That they know and say.
I mean the stones saying that the voidbringers are gone reminds me of when they tell Venli (I think) that humans are just as much natives to Roshar as the Singers now -- having been there 10 000+ years. A poorly phrased question, perhaps, "are there still voidbringers" could have the stones saying, "no", whithout the stones (who I doubt have the most social intelligence) ever thinking to clarify that's because the humans no longer qualify
Okay David talks about spren and singers. I'm convinced that evolution went a different way on Roshar than it did on planets where humans evolved such that things advanced through symbiosis with the cognitive, rather than purely physically. That's why large creatures seem to need to take spren into their gem hearts, etc., and why singers need spren for forms. I think the reason humans offer more to spren than singers is that humans have full sapience through physical processes which can therefore bring spren they bond with more fully into the physical realm. Or at least that was long the case. Singers rely on a cognitive connection for their full sapience and this are not as grounded in the physical and can't offer as much to spren. They also didn't form nahel bonds but entered a gem heart, which I think spren like but they have less freedom for it. When singers were the only residents of Roshar this was a non-concern, but once beings with sapience only from their own physical processes and whatever innate investiture they had that allowed them to be alive, that started pulling in spren in a different way.
Couldn't the inherent limits on the Dawnsinger's powers be the rhythms themselves? Making a structure in discord with a rhythm, or performing a magical act of a similar ilk might be nigh impossible for a singer, whereas a human might easily achieve the same result without difficulty? In that way, the oaths would be the equivalent of rhythms for humans, right? A singer singing the right song attracts a specific spren, just as a human adhering to the right oaths does the same?
Those Parshendi poems are straight-up about how humans are more emotionally beings. •“We can’t provide what the humans lend, though broth are we, their meat is men” Oaths! That come from being emotionally distraught/spiritually broken, that allow humans to bond better… that tasty, tasty depression •”Do we understand the sum….[do] we dare to have them again.” Do they understand the cost of Radiance? They can’t feel under Odium; numb. Do they dare to feel again, and open themselves up to sadness&the feelz&hard times, for Radiance?
In regards to talking to a mountain, that's why I love the last lines of the opening to Jak&Daxter: "I have asked the plants, but they do not remember. The plants have asked the rocks, but the rocks do not recall-even the rocks do not recall." It's so evocative.
There’s a comedy to shardcast that’s just unparalleled 😭😭 “Brandon has an awareness that there’s a strong and weak nuclear force and I think he likes that idea, I don’t think that is carried through in the magic” like how do I explain to my friends that this is funny-
1:07:25 what Evgeni's getting at reminds me of how Raboniel views the distinction between human and singer art: "“Humans never use what is around them to its fullest. They always impose their will far too strongly...One of the singers of old, creating a similar work of art...would have asked themself what kind of mural would naturally be suggested by the pieces they had obtained." Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE) . Orion. Kindle Edition. I think I agree with the idea that the physical structure of the tower was formed by Radiants
I feel like the Stoneshaping of Intent/Command concept is very aligned with Intent/Command required for and with Awakening. Vasher says that commands are more effective the better you can visualize the intent of the command when he’s teaching Vivenna
The Stormfather must not be able to always send thoughts to Honour spren (so I agree with communing as he passes by in the cognitive realm) because when Ishar's experiments (🤢😱) are discovered he exclaims that they must hurry to warn his children. If he could always communicate with the Honour spren, he would just have done so at that time and then said they must warn the rest.
I think the reason the stone is resistant to Soulcasting is literally Perception and how Roshar just *is.* Based on how it is the essence of Roshar (and it's history, looks like). Essentially this is a Roshar specific thing. theoretically, if you could Soulcast (or something similar) elsewhere, it wouldn't be as difficult, I think
took me a few restarts to get through the first 10 minutes, because I stopped paying attention after toothpaste tangents....but after a while I started to actually realize what was going on and why im interested.
The apparent lack of explicit command stuff going on in surgebinding probably has to do with the sheer amount of investiture they have access to, compared to, say, your average awakener. It could also be related to stormlight being more prone to entering inanimates than other investitures, but I'll just follow through with the first one. I've always seen intent as being a passive state of mind, while a command is a time-bounded action - a speech act, a thought act, a gesture, the thing that trips the switch and gets the magic to happen. Because investiture gathers intelligence the more of it there is, a small amount of investiture would only understand very simple, very blunt commands, while a large amount can interpret more complex and less defined ones, that seem to verge on the territory of intent and can be much more intuitive. But still there's that idea of it being an active thought rather than a passive state of mind.
1:35:10 While an interesting discussion, you guys must remember that the Stoneward honorblade was not in Shinovar but Braize, right? So maybe the stones that told of the voidbringers downfall COULDN'T talk to anyone so certain Heralds lied about it, right?
Hey, @chaos: note that gold and copper (to name allomantic metals) are ... minerals. They are found in pure form in rocks. In other words: a gold nugget is, by definition, a stone. So about those Stoneshapers .... As for who made the Sibling: if Vasher and Shashara could make Nightblood, I assert that ancient "unchained" Bondsmiths could make the Sibling. Tangent: Ishar is mad. Could Sazed influence him through Ruin?
Maybe a Level 1 StoneWarden is more like a CremWarden? Crem hardens to stone over time, so it remembers what it’s like to be water and earth? I believe a high level StoneWarden has the knowledge to effect ancient rock.
There’s something in RoW about Ishar having discovered the Nahel Bond. Perhaps he made it happen through spiritual Connection? It implies that this bond wouldn’t be possible without his actions and studies as Bondsmith.
One Eric talking shit about rocks has dropped him to be my least favorite shardcast member. Second i think dawnsinging is going to be a song version of the 3rd secret projects system we glimpsed that allows the spren to come be called to the physical realm with the strength and resonance of the song. Thus, the power is able to do great acts of magic, but is less effective individually. I also think adonalsium literally sang life into the land and thats why stone remembers becuase it shares the latent intent of adonalsium's creation of roshar. Thinking on dawnsinging more i think it provides a general connection to the physical realm but the personal nature of nahel bonds inspires a much closer physical realm bond.
Adonalsium singing his creation into reality is super cool and sounds like it's inspired by Lord of the Rings. There, god (eru iluvitar) sings angels into being who then harmonize with him to sing the rest of creation into being.
Would it be too far of a stretch to thing the dawnsingers used StoneShaping to create the Dawn Shards? I mean look at what Ryses looked like and where it was stored
I think the willingness comment is very strange. Mainly because there are no orders that can both stoneshape and soulcast. So how could you even compare the two? That being said, a soulcaster is trying to change the stone into something else. A stoneshaper is changing the shape of the stone. It's like the difference in forgery between trying to make a wooden door into a steel door and making a wooden door rotten. One is much more aligned with the objects original identity, v this easier Edit: lol, I should have finished watching that segment before commenting
My thoughts on prehistory and the betrayal. Before humans came from Ashyn, I like the idea that the radiant spren were being used to grant forms. This wasn't a nahel bond, and they were sort of trapped in the gem heart. So while they got something out of the bond, they were kind of stuck. When the humans came from Ashyn, they started to interact with and proto-bond with the radiant spren and since they don't have gem hearts, the spren had more freedom in the physical realm. It's not that the spren couldn't nahel bond singers like humans, it's more that noone knew this. So the spren 'betrayed' the singers by preferring humans over them because of the greater freedom. Then odium sneaks in and offers the singers new forms of power with his voidspren. These aren't sapient spren, so being trapped in a gemheart is no big deal. But when Honor the radiant spren discovered this it was viewed as a betrayal because they're allowing themselves with odium. Venli is a weird case, but I think it's interesting that timbre can hide in her gemheart but isn't trapped. Maybe because she has another spren giving her a form. Maybe the ancients didn't know you could have a spren give you and form and still bond another, radiant spren.
How much do we need to donate for David to buy himself a new mic? It genuinely hurts whenever he talks. Everyone else is fine but his sound quality is really abhorrent. Besides that, it was fun listening
I don't know what to tell you. He uses the same mic as nearly everyone else, and has for years. He is using the correct microphone. What exactly is the problem? Could you try and describe it to me? -Eric
Evgeni's show and tell being toothpaste was an incredible plot twist, I was expecting something extravagent as always and the disappointment was almost great
Really puts into perspective the whole journey over destination thing
Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Toothless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to drill a filling
13:00 It would seem to refer to plastic and aplastic deformation. That is if you really want to permanently change a shape, it will take Cohesion, but if you want to temporarily change mechanical properties, it needs Tension. That is the stone is liquid only with respect to the Stoneshaper. If you and me hit it, it still breaks bones.
31:00 Soulcasting is also affected by an object's history. Hence things have memories in the Cosmere.
1:28:00 What is the Singers using rhythms to grow crops better other than a weak form of Progression? They still have Surges, they just are not aware of that.
1:35:00 How would stones understand Desolations and the Oathpact? Since Aharietiam no Fused turned up. That they know and say.
Dawnsingers have been my number one topic to discuss since rhythm of war cam out. So yeeeeeeeeeesssssssss
I mean the stones saying that the voidbringers are gone reminds me of when they tell Venli (I think) that humans are just as much natives to Roshar as the Singers now -- having been there 10 000+ years. A poorly phrased question, perhaps, "are there still voidbringers" could have the stones saying, "no", whithout the stones (who I doubt have the most social intelligence) ever thinking to clarify that's because the humans no longer qualify
I like this idea. -Eric
Okay David talks about spren and singers. I'm convinced that evolution went a different way on Roshar than it did on planets where humans evolved such that things advanced through symbiosis with the cognitive, rather than purely physically. That's why large creatures seem to need to take spren into their gem hearts, etc., and why singers need spren for forms. I think the reason humans offer more to spren than singers is that humans have full sapience through physical processes which can therefore bring spren they bond with more fully into the physical realm. Or at least that was long the case. Singers rely on a cognitive connection for their full sapience and this are not as grounded in the physical and can't offer as much to spren. They also didn't form nahel bonds but entered a gem heart, which I think spren like but they have less freedom for it. When singers were the only residents of Roshar this was a non-concern, but once beings with sapience only from their own physical processes and whatever innate investiture they had that allowed them to be alive, that started pulling in spren in a different way.
The question is whether that affects singers like Venli and R'Lain actually forming nahel bonds
Couldn't the inherent limits on the Dawnsinger's powers be the rhythms themselves? Making a structure in discord with a rhythm, or performing a magical act of a similar ilk might be nigh impossible for a singer, whereas a human might easily achieve the same result without difficulty?
In that way, the oaths would be the equivalent of rhythms for humans, right? A singer singing the right song attracts a specific spren, just as a human adhering to the right oaths does the same?
Me after the first 10 minutes “this IS the quality content I come for”
✌✌
Those Parshendi poems are straight-up about how humans are more emotionally beings.
•“We can’t provide what the humans lend, though broth are we, their meat is men”
Oaths! That come from being emotionally distraught/spiritually broken, that allow humans to bond better… that tasty, tasty depression
•”Do we understand the sum….[do] we dare to have them again.”
Do they understand the cost of Radiance? They can’t feel under Odium; numb. Do they dare to feel again, and open themselves up to sadness&the feelz&hard times, for Radiance?
Sorry this is laaaaate! -Eric
Its always right on time!
You say this is late, I say "oh my God more content!'
Found y'all's channel a few weeks ago and have been BINGING!
In regards to talking to a mountain, that's why I love the last lines of the opening to Jak&Daxter: "I have asked the plants, but they do not remember. The plants have asked the rocks, but the rocks do not recall-even the rocks do not recall." It's so evocative.
There’s a comedy to shardcast that’s just unparalleled 😭😭 “Brandon has an awareness that there’s a strong and weak nuclear force and I think he likes that idea, I don’t think that is carried through in the magic” like how do I explain to my friends that this is funny-
Naur not another one 😭😭 edgedancers, look at them go!
Marvin is back! ❤️
1:07:25 what Evgeni's getting at reminds me of how Raboniel views the distinction between human and singer art:
"“Humans never use what is around them to its fullest. They always impose their will far too strongly...One of the singers of old, creating a similar work of art...would have asked themself what kind of mural would naturally be suggested by the pieces they had obtained."
Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE) . Orion. Kindle Edition.
I think I agree with the idea that the physical structure of the tower was formed by Radiants
Fresh wtcc is back on the menu!
This idea of willingness reminds me of how organic material and humanoid shapes are more receptive to Awakening.
I feel like the Stoneshaping of Intent/Command concept is very aligned with Intent/Command required for and with Awakening.
Vasher says that commands are more effective the better you can visualize the intent of the command when he’s teaching Vivenna
The Stormfather must not be able to always send thoughts to Honour spren (so I agree with communing as he passes by in the cognitive realm) because when Ishar's experiments (🤢😱) are discovered he exclaims that they must hurry to warn his children. If he could always communicate with the Honour spren, he would just have done so at that time and then said they must warn the rest.
At least this didn't devolve into which toothpaste brand correlates to which order of Radiants, like I half expected it to after the show and tell.
NEW BUZZFEED QUIZ, WHICH TOOTHPASTE MATCHES YOUR RADIANT ORDER BEST
I think the reason the stone is resistant to Soulcasting is literally Perception and how Roshar just *is.*
Based on how it is the essence of Roshar (and it's history, looks like). Essentially this is a Roshar specific thing. theoretically, if you could Soulcast (or something similar) elsewhere, it wouldn't be as difficult, I think
So being able to bounce a quarter off Dalinar's butt is a direct application of tension? That is one CAKED bouncy castle!
It's a tense situation. -Eric
took me a few restarts to get through the first 10 minutes, because I stopped paying attention after toothpaste tangents....but after a while I started to actually realize what was going on and why im interested.
im only 5 minutes in but dont ever change Evgeni! xD
The apparent lack of explicit command stuff going on in surgebinding probably has to do with the sheer amount of investiture they have access to, compared to, say, your average awakener. It could also be related to stormlight being more prone to entering inanimates than other investitures, but I'll just follow through with the first one.
I've always seen intent as being a passive state of mind, while a command is a time-bounded action - a speech act, a thought act, a gesture, the thing that trips the switch and gets the magic to happen. Because investiture gathers intelligence the more of it there is, a small amount of investiture would only understand very simple, very blunt commands, while a large amount can interpret more complex and less defined ones, that seem to verge on the territory of intent and can be much more intuitive. But still there's that idea of it being an active thought rather than a passive state of mind.
1:35:10 While an interesting discussion, you guys must remember that the Stoneward honorblade was not in Shinovar but Braize, right?
So maybe the stones that told of the voidbringers downfall COULDN'T talk to anyone so certain Heralds lied about it, right?
But you could have the Willshaper Honorblade and do the same thing. -Eric
Hey, @chaos: note that gold and copper (to name allomantic metals) are ... minerals. They are found in pure form in rocks. In other words: a gold nugget is, by definition, a stone. So about those Stoneshapers ....
As for who made the Sibling: if Vasher and Shashara could make Nightblood, I assert that ancient "unchained" Bondsmiths could make the Sibling.
Tangent: Ishar is mad. Could Sazed influence him through Ruin?
oh? Am I finally getting to see some willshaper appreciation?
Maybe a Level 1 StoneWarden is more like a CremWarden? Crem hardens to stone over time, so it remembers what it’s like to be water and earth? I believe a high level StoneWarden has the knowledge to effect ancient rock.
There’s something in RoW about Ishar having discovered the Nahel Bond. Perhaps he made it happen through spiritual Connection? It implies that this bond wouldn’t be possible without his actions and studies as Bondsmith.
also nice cat ears
One Eric talking shit about rocks has dropped him to be my least favorite shardcast member.
Second i think dawnsinging is going to be a song version of the 3rd secret projects system we glimpsed that allows the spren to come be called to the physical realm with the strength and resonance of the song. Thus, the power is able to do great acts of magic, but is less effective individually. I also think adonalsium literally sang life into the land and thats why stone remembers becuase it shares the latent intent of adonalsium's creation of roshar.
Thinking on dawnsinging more i think it provides a general connection to the physical realm but the personal nature of nahel bonds inspires a much closer physical realm bond.
Adonalsium singing his creation into reality is super cool and sounds like it's inspired by Lord of the Rings. There, god (eru iluvitar) sings angels into being who then harmonize with him to sing the rest of creation into being.
I don't actually think rocks aren't cool, I just gotta keep the episode moving in the beginning! In particular I love gemstones especially. -Eric
@@ylhajee Thats exactly why i think its the case in stormlight. intentionally or not.
@@17thShard Thin Ice XD
We do know that's it's in the songs
Would it be too far of a stretch to thing the dawnsingers used StoneShaping to create the Dawn Shards? I mean look at what Ryses looked like and where it was stored
I'm here to confirm that Evgeni's toothpaste are water bottle cap are the most interesting content in the episode
🙏
THICC SHARDCAST
Whooooo is that in the thumbnail please?? Venli?
Oh hey I didn't put this in the description oops. It's Venli on the Polish cover of Rhythm of War. -Eric
@@17thShard is it mateform?
@@brandonmorgan8016 Envoyform most likely
I think the willingness comment is very strange. Mainly because there are no orders that can both stoneshape and soulcast. So how could you even compare the two? That being said, a soulcaster is trying to change the stone into something else. A stoneshaper is changing the shape of the stone. It's like the difference in forgery between trying to make a wooden door into a steel door and making a wooden door rotten. One is much more aligned with the objects original identity, v this easier
Edit: lol, I should have finished watching that segment before commenting
You directly compare both by bonding Yelig-Nar.
There are also Shin that have trained with every surge using the honorblades.
My thoughts on prehistory and the betrayal. Before humans came from Ashyn, I like the idea that the radiant spren were being used to grant forms. This wasn't a nahel bond, and they were sort of trapped in the gem heart. So while they got something out of the bond, they were kind of stuck. When the humans came from Ashyn, they started to interact with and proto-bond with the radiant spren and since they don't have gem hearts, the spren had more freedom in the physical realm. It's not that the spren couldn't nahel bond singers like humans, it's more that noone knew this. So the spren 'betrayed' the singers by preferring humans over them because of the greater freedom.
Then odium sneaks in and offers the singers new forms of power with his voidspren. These aren't sapient spren, so being trapped in a gemheart is no big deal. But when Honor the radiant spren discovered this it was viewed as a betrayal because they're allowing themselves with odium.
Venli is a weird case, but I think it's interesting that timbre can hide in her gemheart but isn't trapped. Maybe because she has another spren giving her a form. Maybe the ancients didn't know you could have a spren give you and form and still bond another, radiant spren.
Personally I think the betrayal of the singers was making of the unmade. Most likely misram Who I suspect was the original sibling.
Oh, that's a really neat idea. Thanks for sharing! -Eric
i mean it doesn’t stop being stone
First (jk love y'all)
How much do we need to donate for David to buy himself a new mic? It genuinely hurts whenever he talks. Everyone else is fine but his sound quality is really abhorrent.
Besides that, it was fun listening
I don't know what to tell you. He uses the same mic as nearly everyone else, and has for years. He is using the correct microphone. What exactly is the problem? Could you try and describe it to me? -Eric