Lights | Rhythm of War Shardcast
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- Опубліковано 16 гру 2024
- This week's episode is on the Lights of Roshar. Spoilers for Rhythm of War and the cosmere (but not Dawnshard) in this one! Here Evgeni really makes up for not being on the last two episodes by blabbing a bunch, but it is all excellent. This is the good stuff. Even in this episode it feels like we still don't go super in-depth. There's so much to talk about in Rhythm of War!
We have Eric (Chaos), Ian (Weiry), Evgeni (Argent), David (Windrunner) whose audio cosplays as a robot sometimes, and then we have Joshua (jofwu).
Also, we're going back to weekly after this. Our next episode will be on State of Sanderson 2020, which happens on December 19th, and we'll get a show for you out that weekend on it.
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Next week will be State of Sanderson 2020!
Very excited about this!
BIG HYPE
I think the Singers are better at hearing the rhythms and tones because of their gemhearts. I believe the scene where Navani used the gems to assist her in singing was done to hint at that fact.
This topic certainly gives a new meaning to the name Lightsong the Bold.
I like "Wildlight" for the Cultivation-Odium hybrid light.
I came up with "Bloodlight"
Instead of the Manhattan Project, RoW gave us the Urithiru Project.
No fooling 0_0 With both sides having anti-light, mutually assured destruction is on the table for the first time ever on Roshar
@@simpsonman956 "Both" sides? The concept of Anti-Investiture opens up the prospect of annihilation to any side, on Roshar or off, who can figure out how it applies. (Notably: this opens up major lines of inquiry for the Ghostbloods)
From now on, the opposing teams will sing each other’s antilight rhythms on the battlefield instead of direct physical combat. It will be like a rap battle for Roshar.
The final duel between the champion of honor and Odium be like "We challenge you to Rockooooooooff! Give us a chance to blow your socks off.""
SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT
Odium: ready to face my champion, Dalinar?
Dalinar: _momspaghetti_
Odium: wait what
Trolololololololo
The discussion of Vin and the Well made me think of what Harmony says about her in the epigraphs of Hero of Ages. He says that she had likely been drawing in the mists as far back as when she was a child and that taking up the power in the Well acted like "an attuning force. Something that, once touched, would adjust a person’s body to be able to accept the mists." It's like the Well acted as a tuning fork allowing Vin to draw in the mists.
I really like this idea. Mori in Discord also had a great idea that the mists are drawn to you when you use Allomancy because the mists are hearing the "rhythms" that are pulsed out when you use Allomancy, the things bronze detects. Both of these are solid. -Eric
That description at 49:56 of Returned losing their memories as they cross from Cognitive to Physical bears a strong resemblance to spren losing their memories as they cross to the Physical to for a Nahel Bond.
Yeah, I don't remember if we brought it up in this episode, but I think we did in our Awakening one, where we talked about Vasher's memory erasure trick. I would like us to do an episode on memory stuff sometime in 2021, I think there's a lot of interesting things to talk about there.
I think that Warlight, the Rhythm of War, and all other Honor/Odium interactions are totally new, as in they were not possible ever before. This is because Odium is now permanently bound to Roshar due to his massive Investiture in the system. The Everstorm is Odium's storm, a permanent link of his power.
Before the Everstorm manifested, Odium was only bound by some agreement that he could potentially get out of. His Investment in the Fused was small enough that he could leave easily, but now he is part of Roshar.
We also find out in Venli's flashbacks that the Everstorm was manifesting in Shadesmar years before Talenelat showed up outside Kholinar. This might mean that Taln never truly broke and agreed to start a Desolation, but that the Fused used the pathway created by Odium's becoming a Rosharan to get around the Oathpact.
This could work! It's certanily the best justification i've seen so far. I'm so sure Taln never broke and can't wait to find out more, but it'll probably be in like 8 years when we get book 6 :(
.
Walking through the living room and telling my partner, "Man this shardcast is a super nerdy one. Its great."
Him: "Isn't that all of them?"
Touché
But this is the fun stuff!
Bwahahahaha. I love this. -Eric
Cultivation's rhythm is dubstep is the hottest take of these post-row episodes 😂😂
we all know dubstep is Odium. Cultivation has to be either classical or reggae/dub.
My theory is that rhythms/lights/vibrations/wavelengths is where the word "surge" gets involved. I think that all of these lights, which each have rhythms/tones, gets played/expressed in different surges, and those form the ten surges. Each of them is a different way of expressing the rhythms of each light, like a different instrument. They all work via wavelength vibration surges.
I started thinking this when I was thinking about the Windrunner "hybrid" power, and how that was a harmony of two different surges. It is like they are being "played" together to form a new rhythm/surge.
It also means that different surges can be expressed in different ways using different tools, as when neighboring Radiant orders share a surge. This could start to explain why, for instance, soulcasting is different for Elsecallers than Lightweavers.
I'm about to finish Dawnshard, so you can spoil it in the comments. I won't respond til I'm done with it tonight. Pretty sure that will add to the theory.
Specifically speaking to Eric, I think that the surges are Compounding or something like that on a Wavelength level. As a fellow HS Math teacher, I am so excited you might get to go all Pre-Calc on this. Use it to teach us a lesson from Professor CHA0S!
I teach college math :) But, I typically don't like mathing out cosmere stuff, because it seems so obvious to me how much Brandon is NOT mathing things out. He just uses real life inspirations, but ultimately it's rule of cool. -Eric
Agreed. I meant more conceptual level. A lot of us do, but a lot of us don't understand the general terms around wavelengths and what it has to do with sound and light. A little overview would probably help others to organize that vocab........very eventually
I would imagine that the "light" forms of Investiture are the 4th state, analogous to plasma the same way the mists are analogous to a gaseous state, the perpendicularity pools are to liquid and the God metals are to solid.
Sanderson effectively brought in string theory into his magic system and i think that is just incredible, mental, and dedication to his system. Just insane.
If you consider Stormlight, Lifelight and Voidlight and their 3 combined pairs. And Also Anti-Stormlight, Anti-Lifelight and Anti-Voidlight and their 3 combined pairs. That gives a total of 12 lights. Now consider the Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Sibling and 9 Unmade, that also makes a total of 12 super-spren! So potentially each could create a bondsmith associated with one of those lights. That is assuming you cannot combine for example Stormlight and Anti-Voidlight.
I think regarding the vacuum tube, it's because shards invest "matter", not space. Whatever form the vibrations take, they have to be transmitted via matter.
1:45:50 "What's the opposite of Harmony?" Discord? Like it was speculated on a TFE epigraph perhaps?
I gotta say I’m hooked on this shardcasts, I just love the energy that you guys bring to it. It’s goood.
Thanks for the kind words! -Eric
I smile every time the Expanse of Vibrance is mentioned because I got that WOB
Petition to rename Tanavast's godmetal "Honorstone".
...
Then we would have the substance "Honorstone" and the rhythm "Honor's Tone" and the ultimate confusion for audio-only listeners would ensue.
And the Shin religion? Honors stone...
1:34:00 the emotions of the rythm of war is the feeling of running the race, and knowing you ran your hardest.
I actually would very much like to hear Eric talking with a musician and have music-math analysis, explanation or theories about the lights. I get is niche but you are a teacher man I'm sure you can make it very interesting.
On the topic of Nightblood, it is entirely different than anti-Investiture. I agree that it doesn't reduce the overall Investiture present in the Cosmere; Sanderson has stated that Nightblood has not always been as powerful as he currently is, which indicates to me that when he "consumes" Investiture it isn't being destroyed but is directed to further Investing Nightblood. On this note, think about how much Investiture Nightblood must have received from killing Rayse? Could it be possible for Nightblood to reach a level of Investiture that it could entirely consume, and Invest itself with, a Shard? We don't know whether its appetite grows in relation to its current level of Investiture. My current theory is that, by the end of the Stormlight Archive, Adonalsium will be unShattered; could it be that rather than there being a Vessel which embodies it/re-forges it (whatever the terminology would be), Nightblood reaches a critical mass of Investiture through being used to consume all of the Shards, thereby being Invested with all of Adonalsium's Investiture? If this happens, would Nightblood, being sentient, become the new Vessel of Adonalsium or would it just contain all of its power and await a Vessel taking up Adonalsium's Investiture?
This book completely blew my mind with the possibilities for the Cosmere moving forward.
I don’t know how being a shardbearer Nightblood would act though. Nightblood already has an intent and it’s “destroy evil.”
The reason it is called Towerlight is because the Sibling IS the tower just like Stormy IS the Storm.
The Nightwatcher is a standalone in not inhabiting a particular object or event while being a spren of a shard.
Unless she’s maybe The Valley, too? It does seem like she’s separate from it when Dalinar sees her, but the Stormfather can sort of show his face separately, so maybe...? just a thought.
I think the nightwatcher will be the main spren of the 2nd half after the stormfather is gone...a literal nightwatcher during the night of sorrows
Does anyone else think that Navani having to study up on music theory while working as the head of a team preparing a big project ... is an in-joke retelling of Brandon having to learn music theory as head of the Dragonsteel team, while working on this book? Could Navani's isolation away from everyone but maybe three people (Raboniel, guard, daughter) and having to communicate only in writing be Brandon's experience of pandemic isolation, translated to Roshar?
I think you're mostly right about Brandon's experience being translated to Navani, except that he finished writing this book before the pandemic. It came out Nov 2020 which means he finished writing it about a year before.
I believe what Raboniel said about fused flying to outer space was that they died in the vacuum of space for some reason I can't remember.
Two possibilities: 1 they were no longer able to be infused by Odium to maintain their powers, so they died, or the void of space requires massive amounts of energy to manipulate pressures to allow the Fused to breathe, which would then exhaust their Voidlight, then killing them.
@@joshuafischer684 It probably is the second option. I don't know how close Roshar is to Braize, but it should be at least a big fraction of an astronomical unit (~150 million kilometers).
Those distances are enormous. Thousands of times longer than Roshar circumference. The amount of Voidlight required to travel, even if you go in a straight line rather than using orbital mechanics, is gigantic.
@@ETCABEZON Exactly. Also, I have a theory that distances between Shardworlds in Shadesmar are far smaller than they are in the Physical Realm, due to nobody really thinking about the vast distances. But, during the Space Age, those distances in Shadesmar would likely increase due to the increased awareness of that vast gulf between worlds.
It would make Worldhopping far different than it is now.
@@joshuafischer684 The distance between planets probably will. Lots of people thinking about asteroids, comets, planetoids will probably create room in Shadesmar, separating the planets.
The interstellar space may be something different. We don't know much about it or what it contains. Besides both Voyager probes and the Oort cloud, we don't think about much it.
@@ETCABEZON Sanderson is smart enough of a storyteller to do something creative with it.
I think the highstorm in Shadesmar is definitely the Rosharan equivalent of an Iridescent Wave - think of the fact that Eshonai rides the highstorm with the Stormfather because she was "highly Invested when she died".
That sounds exactly like what the Returned do (ride the Wave lol) and they are highly Invested entities.
Well Eshonai didn't ride the storm because she was highly invested, she persisted a long while in the Cognitive Realm because she was highly invested. The Stormfather, who has a lot of wibbly wobbly Connecty chimmy powers just decided to infuse her with even more stormlight and take her for a ride, as he is capable of doing for anyone.
@@mordirit8727 Yes, the Stormfather infused her with his Investiture and “wibbly-Wobblies” her into the storm. The Returned are also made by Endowment Investing them post-death, at which point they experience the Iridescent Wave. Given that Honor is dead, what the Stormfather does here seems pretty analogous to me.
I don’t know if you mention this at all in the video but now we know sound and light are linked then maybe wits lute is more important than we originally thought before?
Especially if he has perfect pitch
@@ianeggleston9991 but the question is, does Wit still have perfect pitch?
@@johnhogue9402 no, he lost it at the end of ROW
@@josephmadre5590 Did he? I thought he just lost *some* of his stored memories. He presumably has meories stored in all sorts of things.
@@Loomx5 "He tried to find a tune to whistle, but each one sounded wrong. Something was fiddling with his perfect pitch."
* anti-void light causes destructive interference. so... there's constructive interference. maybe singers calling everstorm by singing together is an example of that. then what if all the windrunners start singing during a highstorm? what will happen to the stormlight?
* vin hearing rhythms maybe because she was invested enough to be more attuned to hearing them without bronze.
* I think the rhythms in a vacuum is directly connected to why kaladin wasn't able to use gravitational surges but could use pure adhesion during tower invasion. everything in cosmere has investiture and has presence in shadesmar. what happens to its soul when any object is put in a vacuum in the physical realm? I think inanimate objects don't have any connection to the spiritual realm so they can be disconnected from the rhythms if put in a vacuum but any invested being will be able to hear the rhythms even in a vacuum but surge binding will be very limited.
* here's a theory. in cosmere - dark energy + dark matter = investiture.
Oh wait a tic. The rhythm that Rlain tries to teach the humans so they can grow food on Urithiru, it draws lifespren that hang around the plants and makes them grow. And unlike most spren, lifespren glow with a green light. What if they're the primary vehicle on Roshar for cultivation's investiture to enter the ecosystem, the way storms do for stormlight?
It's kinda sad that for a second I got excited thinking "oh Lift could put some lifelight into a gem, then Navani could use those gems that vibrate to Cultivation's rhythm to help farmers hear the song so they can better help food grow," then I remembered that Urithiru no longer needs any of that...
Well I'm sure Navani's discovery that humans _can_ hear the rhythms so long as they hold some gems with the right light inside it can still have nice worldwide impacts, it'll probably trigger an agricultural revolution eventually.
Eric: Man, I want to go to all the sub Astrals.
Uh... Eric remember that Sel and the Dor are things. I'm pretty sure you don't want to go to that one.
Hey, seeing someone get ripped apart by it on screen would be awesome!
@@ericlakeauthor you see that makes sense. I thought you meant in person. Though it would be an experience for sure. That and it would be interesting to how hoid got through
I'm going through these now one by one because it took me this long to finish ROW, and I really enjoy all the theorising, so thanks everyone for making these podcasts!
Thanks for the kind words!
wrt Eshonai hearing the Rhythm of War: I was under the impression that she could hear it because the Everstorm and Highstorm were both present. Other Listeners couldn't hear it when she did because they were all Stormform (and thus separated from Honor). She hadn't been able to hear it earlier because they were separated from Odium - either specifically as the Listeners who had rejected him or generally as inhabitants of Roshar, since Odium wasn't able to arrive. Not sure which.
Oh my goodness guys, I loved this new episode!! You are so funny and I enjoyed the whole 2 hours of nerding out on light! Amazing. Thank you for sharing this, you made my day 🖤
This is my second shardcast, and I just Ian is way smarter than he seems. He talks less but those ideas are complex yet said very simply that easily makes sense.
Except like, he has to like..say the word 'like' between like, every other word...But i agree he adds a lot to the convo every time. Also hes the goat wtcc contestant.
I imagine Brandon was listening to “All of the Lights” by Kanye West while writing.
Something about learning that Lift was using Lifelight caused me to make a theory about Vasher. We knew he was on Roshar so he didn't have to keep getting breaths to eat. I questioned if this was as straight forward as I'd always assumed, that he was just using Stormlight to fuel that instead, because how would he be absorbing Stormlight? Combine that with the fact that the Nightwatcher got Nightblood somehow, what if Vasher had made a deal with her/Cultivation, to be able to metabolise food into Lifelight just like Lift, in return for the Sword.
Main problem with this is that it contradicts a WoB on the matter, that he is essentially able to draw investiture through the highstorms because of the gap in his spiritweb left by being a returned. I also question why I needed to know that Lift uses Lifelight for this, since the type of light has 0 impact on the theory...
I think Honour and Whimsy are pretty much the closest to opposites out of the shards we know (after Ruin & Preservation)
Also:
Odium-Devotion
Autonomy-Dominion
Song of Prayer was mentioned when Venli was practicing her abilities on the 8th floor of the tower as well.
When you were talking about matter and antimatter still having mass, and light and anti-light still having Investiture...
I wonder if there is something like "exotic Investiture" like exotic matter.
Yay, made my night, thanks for the awesome video guys
28:15 If the the reason the tones cannot be heared by humans were frequency range then Navani would not be able to sing them or hear them while she is singing.
1:03:10 Cultivation has a Perpendicularity. What happens if you go to that with a gem and tuning fork?
1:24:00 That you can hold Towerlight is necessary but not sufficient to fuel Surgebinding with it
1:38:30 Theoretically there are at least 65535 lights. They cannot all have a function
1:49:30 I still maintain that Unmade could consist of anti-light. If it is Investiture you must be able to make entities out of it.
Wylde theory - Kelsier is discord - he's holding the missing power of harmony and missing ruin investiture from the atium.
I really hope the "Human-like Spren" just stay as a hint of what a free of Honor's restrictions Bondsmith could do with their powers. That was horrible to read and I can't imagine a reason for that to be a thing. Also, really looking forward to the Gavilar chapter, there's so much information to be yet unravelled.
lol I usually have several 🤯🤯🤯 moments when listening to your podcasts (which I only just discovered about 3 weeks ago and have been throughly enjoying). You all (including Grace, Alyx, Ben, & everyone else) have SUCH great chemistry on these podcasts and you bounce off each other's ideas so well! [RoW spoilers]: I definitely had not made the connection between the Unmade and Raboniel trying to "unmake" the sibling. It will be interesting to see if any new spren are "unmade". Also, my mind has been very stuck on what happens to the investiture after a spren is killed with anti-light ever since Phendoranas death... and how that might have implications for new radiant spren being born (all we know is Syl's comments ie: it being less messy than humans - or do we have additional info that I've missed?) I was wondering if there might be a spren-baby-boom or something. I hadn't really thought about there being a "waiting" period for it to be usable like you mentioned around the 37:00 mark. Speaking of babies, I have to think we may get a pregnant radiant eventually? Would the bond with a spren impact the baby at all? Seems like there's a lot to think about there. While I don't think Jasnah would want to be a mother (at least, not while at war), I kind of get a kick out of the idea of Hoid being a father. I also wonder if Navani could still get pregnant... if Dalinar either dies or becomes Odiums for the back half, I wonder if we might see that trope where Navani has a "piece of Dalinar". And speaking of Dalinar, do we know if it's possible for him to have squires? Ok, I'm going to stop rambling now! 😅 Thanks for this podcast!
I think there actually were Bondsmith squires, and that the Shard or Spren that corresponds to the Bondsmith would choose from those squires to bond to. I think something like this was explained on ROW but I could be wrong. Also, according to the wiki, the squire number wasn't big, and there were also Bondsmith assistants who made oaths but gain no powers, but made de oath for only the sake of making them, what was kind of thought like the purest form of Radiance.
I feel like Brandon is taking inspiration from String Theory.
I really appreciate the massive output of content everybody with the 17th shard have done for the buildup and release of RoW! These breakdown and theory videos always give such good perspective when having all the different voices and theories. Also for Odiums new god metal name what is everybody’s thoughts? I’m going with Vargodium.
Thanks for the kind words! I think it can still be called raysium. -Eric
Just discovered you guys and just finished rhythm of war. I think Eric was on to something. The lights are physical manifestation of investiture leaving them subject to the laws of the physical realm. Seemingly the pure tones are always sounding throughout the planet but so quiet hardly anyone can hear them. The gems act as resonant chambers which is why singers and fused can hear them. Cutting the physical light off from the tones causes them to stop them from resonating. Also in Elantris the Dor (devotion and dominion’s power) is directly connected to the landscape. So basically yeah Odiums tone might also be on braise as there and roshar are the two places where highly invested people who would have a spiritual connection to the planets would be.
Also the anti-lights do seem to work like anti matter. Like positrons and electrons annihilating each other the two lights annihilate each other violently.
I like to think of investiture being destroyed as entropy. Like Atium is very concentrated so it's easy to store all the power. But if you burned it into smoke it would spread around the world and be much harder to collect. Energy is never destroyed but you can make it unuseable with entropy by just diffusing it.
1:59:00 I suspect the box is aluminum since aluminum can block investiture and invested individuals' vision like how the sibling couldn't find Lyft inside of the tower. 2:03:00 It seems like the manifested spren were like inverse cognitive shadows where soul casting created a body from the air to fit around the investiture soul of the spren. The bodies would be likely to fail because the spren's soul was shaped to better survive in the cognitive realm and therefore can't survive without the support of the cognitive realm, like the dimensional equivalent of how things feel lighter in water, so some things that developed in an underwater environment like anemones would collapse under their own weight in just air.
As to 1:40:0 what if there was an efficiency curve between the lights in relation to the spren the connection to the surge is coming from. Also the tower is The Siblings body, the book mentions that they formed themselves into the fabrial so making a pure storm tower would be difficult
I was under the impression that all radiants ran on stormlight in the past. The stormfather freaked out when he first saw lift which excuses her situation in my head. Think radiants ran off of different kinds of light in the past? Navanis situation makes it seem plausible
After reading this book and learning about tones and their relationship to light, I started imaging the rhythms to be like Binaural Beats, where they're an interplay between slightly varying pitches that create a rhythmic pulse.
17th shard gets me through the hard day's, love you guys!!
If Harmony can produce Investiture in the Form of light, let's call it Harmonylight. And one would produce "anti-HArmonylight" then that light could be Discordlight.
Brandon said (I recall from memory) that if someone else would hold those shards it could be called discord. I theorize that the way the investiture would be expressed would also change. Thus Discordlight.
So the "anti" of Harmony could be Discord, thus Anti-Harmonylight=Disconrd light.
So I am thinking that the Vessel of a shard could "hold" the power in a different way and produce the anti investiture.
These are my two cents I came up with while listening to this great podcast. I haven't researched any of it, but I wanted to contribute to the conversation.
I'd say all shard/combinations of shard can become their anti-shard based on Intent. like Discord being the anti-shard of harmony.
I also believe the mixed lights and the combined shards are related and share the same Intent.
For example honor+odium=war, cultivation+honor=science and odium+cultivation=freedom based on the Intents of the lights we see in the book
When you were talking about the method Navani used to make anti void light, it made me wonder: could they make investiture that’s not keyed to any shard? Investiture with no identity?
Also, it was my understanding that the ant void light and anti storm light tones affect the hearers connection to the appropriate shard. If that’s the case, then the Singers now have a serious advantage over the humans. Because singers can hear the pure tones of Roshar, most of them can probably learn to sing the anti storm light tone with little difficulty, but the humans will have a lot of difficulty. The Singers should now be able to seriously mess with the Radiants ability to use their powers in combat, just by singing.
No, I don't think that Singers will be able to affect the Radiants abilities. Yes the Rhythm of Anti-Stormlight would feel horrid to the Radiants, but they should be able to push through just fine. The Rhythm itself doesn't affect the Radiant's abilities it is just an horrible sound.
I also think Hoid might have told the story of Adonaldiums death? I remember a story about a god or moon wanting to know what it was to be mortal and got tricked into swapping places with a mortal who never gave the power back. But I cant remember where it's from. Also Hoid seems able to use several magic systems on every planet so maybe he would know how to get storm light off world and useable?
"How would they get so much anti-Adonalsium investiture to wound god?"
Wasn't Adonalsium killed by the use of the Dawnshards? Wasn't that the entire point of the mural and the Dawnshard book reveal?
More involved
There may, or may not be more involved. That dawnshard stuff was left vague enough to not be the entirety of the answer
Yeah, you got me. We did in fact record this prior to reading Dawnshard :) I just don't like bringing attention to that fact. That part of the podcast would certainly have been different if we had read Dawnshard by then. -Eric
Pet theory: Sja'anat will eventually pick up the Honor and Odium shards and become War.
That, or Kaladin might pick up Honor. Brandon has said that he was "hyper-aligned" to honor Now the question is: what is holding him back from taking the shard, where Vin could (apparently) just do that at any moment; Would he have, for instance to swear a fifth Ideal? or just to find the shard in the spiritual realm.
@@maximeteppe7627 I think it is simply that he hasn't had a chance to. The mists where their every night on scadrial. But I want it to be dalinar
Not sure if this is a 1 to 1 comparison, but in audio engineering you can take 2 of the same recording and inverse one of the recordings and when you play them together they will cancel each other out and create silence. Its how you can get rid of room sound in recording. That might be how someone can take the odium investiture and make it destroy or cancel out odiums investiture creating anti odium rhythms or light.
per prologue chat: I was under the impression looking back that Gavilar and friends were talking about blocking connection in order to move Kalakstares off world, because Sons of Honor.
The Bondsmith blade is not limited. Probably possible to create the different lights using that.
The point about taking Stormlight/Voidlight from one planet to the other; Wouldn't there be some sort of barrier you have to break through when moving between worlds, a barrier that could potentially remove certain Investiture? Since they are moving the filled gemstones in special boxes, maybe those boxes are made of a metal that blocks that "purging" power of the mentioned barriers, allowing one to carry it through without having it removed? Aluminium, wasn't it?
I think the vacuum is only to isolate the voidlight. Without the vacuum physical reverberations and other sounds would interfere with the process to make anti-voidlight.
Investiture from the Rosharan system is stuck there. It was said that the further an invested gem is moved away from the system, the harder it would be to move.
Probably having to do with how Odium is stuck in the system. I would suspect Honor and Cultivation are stuck as well, but they originally chose to go there. However, Odium came to the system with the Intent of splintering.
Great episode...in speaking of Warbreaker, Lightsong is one of the main gods featured in Warbreaker. I have a feeling that his name, combining "light" and "song," is not a coincidence, and it is possible that he will play a role in future Cosmere iterations
@Benjamin Barack We actually don't know that for sure as there are still more details to come out about the Beyond, also, we don't know for sure Lightsong went to the Beyond. All I'm saying is that there is far more to be revealed in the Watbreaker world, and considering Brandon said the next Warbreaker is necessary before the end of the Stormlight series, this may be some to keep our eye on.
I wonder if anti voidlight had to do with what happened on the shattered planes
Just saying vacuum and void are the same word in spanish, so those chapters where a bit clusterfuck to read
Reminds me of Allomancy and Feruchemy. A Mistborn using pure metals has one power set. But when the pure metals are made into specific alloys the opposite power set emerges. Like they have changed the metals properties enough to produce a tonal opposite. Which would actually mean there are 16 powers but only 8 tones make me wonder what would happen if a Mistborn burned a metals and it alloy at the same time. This could also explain how a Feruchemy stores and reclaims abilities that use of one tone stores and the opposite tone restores. They also intrinsically know the tones because how they are ingested or on ones skin. Tetanus must be a real problem.
Maaaaybeee there will be like „antishards“ and in the end of it all there will be no shards and no gods anymore.
So we see how the investiture's opposite can break it apart. Maybe that is a way that a Dawnshard manifests. That anti-light is Dawnshard light. Maybe someone that uses surges that has a Dawnshard is inverting the investiture they are using to the opposite light as they do the surge. Its not a full theory yet but a thought that it is how anti-investiture is naturally made and how Dawnshards were able to break apart Adonalsium. And how they were used to "creat all things" since all matter is investiture essentially so ant-investiture can be used to break it down and shape it
I'm super late to join the discussion. But I think the vacuum mostly ended the pull or connection to the new vessel.
by this I mean that in the vacuum the gem stopped vibrating, så it stopped pulling on the light. since the vessel now is nullified it could be re"toned" and made to vibrate different. So I don't think the light itself was affected. It just lost the pull from the vessel. and then it was prevented to return to the old vessel being trapped in the vacuum, the light is not changed only the vessel was
Do you think that special truthwatchers (Renarian and Rlain) can use illumination to mess/edit/change different investiture lights. Various expansions from this would be crazy
I think of anti light kind of like the opposite metals. Like one metal pushes and one pulls. A wind runner can pull things essentially. An anti wind runner can push things
UGH Step-Light what are you doing? Get out of here step-light.
I also imagine that the other shards would also have respective lights
I vote we rename Tower Light to Science light because that is both how the rhythm is described as it was made and the tower is spren science
Could there be a relation between the Tones and the Cymatic patterns that makes up Kholinar and the other cities?
Like could you guess the rest of the Tones by replicating the sound that makes the pattern of each city?
Imagine if they make anti-war light and name it peace-light lmao. 🤣🤪
I think anything that could be called peace light would appear on the same spectrum as war light, whereas antiwarlight would be on the same position on the inverse spectrum of light in general
@@eaptan Idk what you are trying to say here mate. Anyway don't take what I said too seriously. I was just making war and peace joke lol.
@@Haxerous gotcha haha.
Navani used the vacuum because she was creating an experiment context in that the ONLY thing that the light hears when leaving the vacuum is the "anti tone"(The sound can only travel through sound). It was an assurance that the only thing that would transform the light in anti light was the "anti tone".
stormlight/anti-stormlight combustion engine when??? Come on Navani!
Also, rereading SH after RoW, it's mentioned that Preservation has a Tone in just one line.
The tuning fork makes me feel like the perfect pitch from having lots of breath might be op. I can't imagine how yet tho
Remember that Vasher has the first five Heightenings, and thus has perfect pitch and also perfect color vision. If only he'd stop vanishing out of the story after each cameo.
@@carl11547 Hoid has perfect pitch too! Or... does he? At least he had it until the end of Row, and I can see him helping Navani willingly.
@@theegameer12 I think he still probably has it, removing the breaths would be wayy too obvious a move on odiums part. I think it the breaths were just flickering as with what happened in warbreaker with that one kid
@@stlouismarlon I thought taravangian was just removing hoids memories of the meeting over and over. I don't know if taking so many breaths would still count as not doing harm, but it would also depend on Intent I suppose.
@@ShaunshankRedemption I was assume that'd use the breath command we saw vasher (forgot what his warbreaker name was) use a command to erase memories that caused a person's breath to dim for a while after. I assumed that odium would've done something to the same effect.
You mentioned the hues and the tones, so I think it's relevant to talk about how color is decided by the frequency of light in the same way that tone is determined by the frequency of the sound vibrations. The tones and the hues are the same thing but just in different spectra
"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.'
Could you use investiture spectrums and telescopes to detect invested systems. Maybe how scadrial found first of the sun.
The musical words your looking for to describe the rhythms is Accented articulated patterns
I am nowhere near as steeped in the Cosmere as you guys are, but here's a theory about the "why does the vacuum matter" question in relation to the void light. We know there's going to be a space age. So clearly the planets exist in a universe that can be traveled in via space travel. The cognitive realm, however, doesn't have that vacuum between planets. You can travel between worlds without needing to go into space because the cognitive realm doesn't recognize the vacuum of space. So by removing the atmosphere around the void light Navani manages to remove the connection of the void light to the cognitive realm. What do you think of this as an explanation?
The IRE probably had a Seon in that heliodor
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the point of the vacuum was that without it the void light could still hear odium’s tone via roshar and therefore would manifest as voidlight not anti-voidlight. So the purpose of the vacuum was that the first thing the light hears when it infuses the gemstone is the tone of anti light with the Intent to become anti light
Yeah, it's just weird that it needs to be in the vacuum. That's what we are saying, that the rhythms/tones are way more Physical Realmy than we would have thought before this. -Eric
@@17thShard Ah ok gotcha. Yeah it is weird. It kinda reminds me of how the Aon Dor in Elantris is directly tied to the physical realm as well. There’s definitely a lot more to investiture than I initially thought
After watching this, one question comes to my mind: what happens if a listener who is also a surgebinder (like Venli) absorbs stormlight and voidlight at the same time? Would it turn into warlight? I know it’s way more complicated than that, but if someone who could listen to both Honor’s and Odium’s rhythms/songs could actually absorb both lights at the same time, do you think it would actually be possible? There’s so much we don’t know yet so...
Ruin lost his access to the Atium via the pits of Hathsin right? I mean, that's the whole deal with why he couldn't access all his power, some of it was caught up in that cycle. (Which you-know-who messed up when he blew up the pits...)
The way I think about Lights is that if Shards are essentially infinite sources of power, Light can be moulded and changed but infinity is indestructible. That investiture will continue to exist as a fundamental force.
What if kaladin is forced to take down both Dalinar and Taravangian becoming the embodiment of the Rythmn of War
Something like Dalinar reunites the pieces of Honor, becomes its vessel and something like Hero of Ages happen, were he and Taravangian kill each other and a 5th oath Kaladin combines them both? Do you really want me to believe in this? Because every other possibility is now so much boring.
I guess dalinar is connected enough to both odium and honour but that would be hard to pull off
Could he have gotten antilight from Vasher? Its always struck me as a little weird that the science boy ended up on roshar
I'm thinking all shard/combinations of shard can become their anti-shard based on Intent. like Discord being the anti-shard of harmony.
I also believe the mixed lights and the combined shards are related and share the same Intent.
For example honor+odium=war, cultivation+honor=science and odium+cultivation=freedom based on the Intents of the lights we see in the book
Isnt Sja-Anat named after an ancient goddess of war?
If the fused are using voidlight to power surgebinding, do we have yet to see actual voidbinding?
Nope, we haven't seen any Voidbinding (unless Renarin's weirdness is Voidbinding). It's still only mentioned in the Ars Arcanum by Khriss. -Eric
What would happen if you mixed all the shards lights together?
In regards the to colour spectrum of each Light, while there's no real-life equivalent to the energy of Investiture, there is 100% a real life parallel to each individual type of Light having a different colour spectrum. Think about how we use spectrometry to determine the molecular components in the atmosphere of exoplanets or the types of elements present in different classes of stars. We are able to determine each of these things through which wavelengths of light (i.e. colour in the visible spectrum for those not following me) are most present in the detected spectrum of radiation we detect. Now, I'm not saying that each Investiture has a different chemical composition, but I would bet that each individual Shard's Intent is what influences which colour dominates the shown spectrum.
I won't delve into the differences between how we analyze it based on whether we're looking at a star or an exoplanet since I don't think that's relevant to our current understanding of the Cosmere, but maybe it will be in the future!
I will venture that while they might not all manifest as light, I would bet that every shard has its own "light" can be combined with any other shards "light" and all have an anti-light equivalent. By my calculations that 2 for anti-light version(16 pure tones+16*7+8 combined tones). 16*7+8 is from the sum of 15+14....+1. That is 272 different types of investiture combinations.