Sometimes when I lose the wow factor it's because I haven't heard anything new in awhile. I have found what works for me is to just shut it off and walk away for a few days or weeks. Then I can come back to it with a renewed excitement. Or just tap with the left foot for a change so it feels like somebody new.🤣
Paul, YOU are personally responsible for me, a few years back now, rediscovering, and actually exceeding my ultimate enjoyment of my audio system and music. Having spent over 68 years in audio, and thinking I had exactly what I would always want in a huge massive rock concert like system, I built a little test bench system to experiment with some of the speaker setup concepts you were explaining in your videos. I have 2 of your books as well. In the first few minutes of the experiment, my life was forever changed. I had never experienced the kind of stage and imaging and precise detail in my massive systems that this little one was giving me. Over the next few years I expanded on what I was learning and now have a system that is so amazing that it is very difficult to turn off at night when I do my best critical listening. I always tell myself, "Just one more song". Then 10 pm is suddenly 2am, and then I thank god I am retired..LOL. Once you get to that place, some call audio nirvana, it is difficult to come back to reality. Those that have achieved this know exactly what it is. And it didn't take a ton of money either. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for a gift that has meant so much to me.
Always great videos - I'm a big fan. I was excited about the videos about the Infinity IRS Reference. I was able to listen to them in the 1990s. I had a few Kappa models in my possession. I'm really looking forward to the FR 5 which could be of interest to me. Best wishes from Germany 🇩🇪 Ralf
The best stereo in the world is the way one that disappears. That said, when I was a kid I got a set of Energy C5 speakers. Saved to buy them (22 years later, still have them and enjoy the sound.) but always wanted the Veritas 2.3i's. well 21 years later, now adult me found a set for sale locally. Did the deal and for filled a childhood desire. Are they the best in the world. No. But for me, they are. I get a buzz knowing that if your patient, with a bit of luck, you can make your kid self happy. Don't try to keep up with the Jones's. You'll forever be unhappy and broke. Enjoy what you have and share it with those you love.
I attained that WOW factor in 2018 when I restored and modified my Altec 1570B Amplifiers with NOS RCA 811A tubes coupled with Klipsch KLF-30 speakers at 102 pounds each. Turntable Pioneer PL-516 with Vacuum Tube Audio turntable preamplifier PH16 that I built from kit. I have achieved Wow.
I paid $6K for my JBL SVA-2100's back in the 90's (and yes I still have them) and I've upgraded and upgraded my equipment but never the speakers and still love them. So I 100% agree with spend on the speakers. I eventually made it to PS Audio gear *although the 'air' came out too late here and I went with Auralic Aries 2.1) Keep up the great work Paul.
I wanted to say I also have a love affair with the SVA-2100s, HLS-610s, and HLS-820s. They all have that fantastic sounding Audac tweeters. I traded a friend for the SVA-2100s; some years ago. They just did not work well in his room. Come to find out he just was not putting enough power to them. I recently rebuilt my listening room in 2021-2022. So I put the SVA-2100s in storage and did not have an opportunity to listen to them for about 18 months. When I finally got the room back together and put those speakers back in the room and hooked them up. WOW. I still love them as much as the day I brought them home. The stereo imaging I experience with them is just perfect and I can't imagine it getting much better to be completely honest. I was lucky enough about 6 years ago to run across some new old stock Audac tweeters for them to keep as back ups incase something goes a miss on one of them. I have been considering rebuilding the cross overs in mine; just because they are now close to 30 years old. Have you done anything with your cross overs on the SVA-2100s? If so I would be interested in hearing about what you might have done.
@@EdLawless Yeah I've been wanting to rebuild the crossovers too. But they still sound great, plenty of slam still. I'd be interested in what parts to use (not worrying about cost, just to have them at their best) I feed mine with a pair of 500w Goldmunds and even though they recommend 300w. They do sound better than the old 250w BHK
I bought a set of stacked large advents in the early 70s and eventually bought a PS Audio Stellar Strata and they are still sounding amazing. Thanks Paul.
Paul's also said this before: after getting the best, most resolving speakers you can buy, sound quality differences resulting from different electronic equipment in the chain as you upgrade will be more easily heard.
I don't necessarily agree with speakers first - my view is the best source first. But if you go with speakers first make sure they are efficient enough to allow a large variety of amps to drive them. Inefficient speakers will severely limit your amplification choices.
No, speakers are the most important part of the system. They make the sound you get with whatever electronics you use. Yes they have to be well matched with the amplifier, but you have to buy the best speakers you can afford or your system will be unsatisfying.
I get your point but do not agree. You can feed the best signal to some average speakers and they can only produce that ok-ish. But great speakers can impress you even with a suboptimal source. Once you have some more budget, go upgrade the source… then the amplification.
Equipment that lacks refinement and has some audible grain (lower cost), will sound even more unrefined and grainy with expensive speakers; which tend to be more revealing. You'll probanly have more bass & dynamics if you put most of your expense into speakers first. Going the opposite first will usually mean less bass (smaller, cheaper spkrs.), less dynamics (probably) but more refinement and a smoother more pleasant sound by prioritizing great source and amps first. Which do you prefer? I'd go refinement first and then later extend dynamics and low end. Buying used might let you do both for your money.
@@sidesup8286 this is not my experience(unless we talk crap sources). Usually it’s the resolution, fine detail, soundstaging etc. that is missing. But that does not help you if your speakers cannot resolve that.
@HIFI T. Small speakers, even some cheap small speakers are known for their excellent imaging. I don't think resolution, is necessarily a cheap or small speaker's problem either. Scale, dynamics and bass sometimes are. The most famous small speaker of all time is the Rogers LS3/5A. Even guys like Herb Reichert of Stereophile who is Steve Guttenbergs friend, considers the Rogers LS3/5A as one of his few favorite speakers of all time. And as a long time reviewer, he's had near 400 speakers including extreme high end ones in his room. Kelvin at Stereo X is the same way on the LS3/5A...Not showy sounding or deep bass; but they just sound SO right, even with a strategic lift in the mid/upper bass. Some say best vocal reproduction ever. Of course they're expensive now that they're a collectors item and the biggest cult speaker of all time; and for good reason. I own KEF Reference 101s for my bedroom system, which has the same drivers used in the LS3/5A.But there are "cheap" vintage speakers which image like crazy and have some of the best resolution I have ever heard. A dbx speaker with a little 5 inch driver springs to mind. Available used for less than $150, usually. You'd be surprised how amazing some cheap speakers sound when driven with a quality source and amp. There are cheap subwoofers with kevlar cones that you can pick up for $80 that are good. And despite what a lot of people say, matching up subwoofers with another dynamic speaker is not so hard. Electrostats are different You'll probably get it right on the first try. So in my experience I have heard cheap speakers with great resolution and imaging. I just haven't heard cheap electronics with JFet, VFet or tube sweetness. Who would want lack of refinement and grain better clarified anyway; if that were really the case?
thank you Paul for dumbing this very complex subject down into something that most people can understand. i will be up in Colorado in late may, so i can drive to aspen, and i will be stopping by PS Audio. i would really like to hear the IRS-V and then compare them to the fr30s. my favorite sounds live below 35hz.
When I first got incredibly lucky to get a pair of aDs 910s I was ecstatic but I wanted to know if the specs shown were accurate. It didn't take too long for me to realize that the 28htz-25khtz was exactly correct, and when I got a pair of reconditioned tweeters for them (and they also are a match for my L810s as well) I became more bold and cranked up the music a bit and found that I didn't need a subwoofer with them, though the sub did bring some oomph to kick drums. All in all, pretty great coming from almost fifty-year-old loudspeakers.
My pleasure. We don't have the IRSV connected anymore for comparison. You can see it but you can't play it. The aspens are what we can play for you. Look forward to your visit.
Don't overlook the possibility that the problem requires Renee to seek out new exciting music, rather than new audio equipment. I find many audiophiles listen to the same songs over and over again because that is a familiar sound for them to assess the system on, but ultimately the "wow" factor eludes them because the music has become too familiar (I hesitate to say boring).
The problem with an expression like "wow factor",is that it's an emotional response and isn't an absolute that applies to everyone. What might seem like "wow" to one person may not to another. Someone listening to drum and bass at high SPL will mostly desire "impact" ,"attack" etc,where another who prefers choral works,or string quartets might want more natural refinement to the presentation. One thing I'd suggest is perhaps taking a vacation from high end audio for a while,then coming back to it afresh.If the poster gives himself enough time to forget how good a well sorted audio system can sound,upon returning to it he'll be surprised all over again at the attainable performance.
Important subject. Decades ago I got a quick lesson in what this was all about when hearing a pair of KEF Reference 105´s for the first time. I bought and still have them. And in those rare cases where anything is comparable, it always comes with the price tag of a house. Except for the potential age problem (which happens to all equipment), they are the bargain of a lifetime these days. And age will always be a problem when something is so good that you don´t want to replace it.
The IMF Reference Standard Mk. IV, has a nicer vocal range than the 105, (it used KEF drivers among others), and it's ttansmission line bass loading is far deeper and also tighter than the 105. The Celestion tweeter on the 105 is very transparent. It sounds slightly and I do mean slightly more like the sound is coming from a box than the 105. It throws a big beautiful image.Those speakers were both from around 1980. The 105 is good but even in 1980 you could have done better, arguably and subjectively for far less than 1/2 more money. That you'd NEED to spend as much as a house to equal them in todays market?? You NEED to hear more speakers. Driver technology at the higher end, for less than even a downpayment on a house, is obviously superior. Are you strategizing putting them up for sale and hoping someone is influenced by your post?
@@sidesup8286 Never heard about IMF speakers. Must be nice. Nope, I´m not selling. If there´s one thing I´m sure of it´s that as long as I live and can make my own decisions, My KEF´s is the one thing I never get rid of. In fact, the last time I saw another pair for sale, I bought them.
That's interesting, as it's the exact opposite advice from Linn's late Ivor Tiefenbrun, who said Start with the source and work forwards in the chain....I guess there's no right answer, just different perspectives....
just go for kit speakers and some really good stuff out there and you should be able to build a good kit for under a thousand dollars seas make some good kits monoprice Wilson audio you can get the complete kit CND boards cut for you, just glue it together make the crossover, put the drivers in finish it if you feel confident with a veneer or just paint it. Keep away from MDF or HDF. chipboard is probably the best work top chipboard 25mm thick you can buy for about $80 for a 8 ft sheet, or use marine ply 18mm thick. seas, scan speak, volt drivers. they supply the crossovers you need anyway for the designs they recommend. there's no reason why you can't spend just under $1,000 and be good as any $8 ,000 speak or better
I would say anybody that loses the factor or takes for granted their speakers even if they’re mature load here go back to TV speakers tried for about three months on TV speakers or very low speakers and you quickly appreciate the factor that was lost
I just saw a review of a $30,000 pair of loudspeakers on another UA-cam channel. The reviewer was all gaga over the nuances in his favorite music that he could hear and explained what he could hear in which recording. He said they were, by far, the best speakers he had ever heard. I listened for the nuances on my speakers, which are significantly less expensive (but not cheap), and couldn't hear them. I then listened on my upscale headphones/headphone amp/DAC, and could hear every one of them. Despite that, it was clear that my speakers reproduced the vast majority of the music quite accurately, I concluded that I wouldn't spend $30,000 to add another small fraction of a percent to my listening experience. If you already have good equipment you're unlikely to get an additional wow factor anywhere near what was possible 20 years ago from upgrading.
GM ☕️ Given that gear ⚙️ has gotten better ..the biggest thing you can do is continue to explore new music..a quality streamer and DAC and yes, Paul’s right a great speaker will grow as the system evolves.
I think the WOW factor means different things to different people. Bright speakers may give you the WOW factor to later on become fatiguing. I wouldn't spend 10 grand on speakers with 1,000.00 amplifier. Synergy is what your after. There are many speakers under 5 grand that can give you the WOW factor with the right amp. It's all based on your budget. I run a Parasound Amp with Paridigm speakers. the amp has plenty of Bass punch, warm mid-range and extended highs. The Paradigms are somewhat the same. if if find a recording to bright i just dial back the treble a db or 2 since it has tone controls. But most of the time is pretty damn good. Reveling without being fatiguing.
Flash backs and memories. I saved up for my first stereo a Panasonic RA6600 AM FM Receiver with 8 Track player. I use to get all the audio magazines and spend hours reading them. Then the DAK catalogues and Drew Kaplan's crazy copy writing had me buying Cerwin Vega speakers and a BSR EQ. A trip to Crazy Eddie's and a Akai cassette was added. My real big upgrade came years later with an Adcom preamp and Adcom GFA-555 amp.
Dear Paul I have been eagerly following the development of FR series for almost an year now. I have speakers from wharfedale like dentons and their jade series. I have a room size 12 by 22 by 11. Which Fr series speakers will be best suited for that room. Regards
I remember my first system was a sony cfd454 it was a mini stereo and the cd part was the best sound quality and detail I ever heard even to this day I plugged it into a big stereo later the cd player had dual 45 bit dac don't know what they did but had same sound as the 4000$ big players had since then I tried to get that sound
Good speakers are important. However, I have always been of the mind that a good high current amp will improve the performance of any loud speaker. Therefore , keep the speakers you have. When your ready to drop some big bucks on speakers you'll know they will be driven properly.
Once I heard what a good pair of open baffle speakers could do , there was no going back to box speakers . They also can be easier to position for best sound . Paul is right , speakers 1st
I am very interested in using the FR5s as studio monitors and for just personal listening with a nice subwoofer or course. Will you be using the FR5s at Octave for near fielding monitoring too?
As a fellow Dutch person I can strongly recommend Dynaudio Evoke 10 - guaranteed bass dynamics, midrange engagement and non-fatiguing treble for long listening, all at a relatively affordable price.
10K somewhat affordable?. I'll stick with my Klipsch....but if I had 10K to spend on speakers I would probably go with the Noesis 215RT since I like horn speakers.
When Paul talks about PS audio -speakers, he forgets mentioning that there's a massive pricedifference between The US and the rest of the world. There's importtaxes and also, you can only buy through dealers so they need to get their share too.
My paradigm founder 120s with a built in 1000 watt amplifier were a very good choice. In search of an amplifier to pair with my anthem 1140 to power the mid range and tweeter. Any suggestions?
Speakers always seem to give me the biggest wow factor but please don’t forget about treating the room . You’ll never hear the full potential of your speakers/system if your room isn’t conducive
I love it ...the FR10 he says somewhat affordable at a measly 10,000 a pair. That's a WOW factor all right . Paul just who is your target audience (lol) ?
It's all very relative... Anyway there's lot of brands making good sounding speakers on entry level. Only you will decide if it's 500 or 5.000. Average salary in US is nearly 60.000 and on average less than 2 kids per family so I'd consider 10.000 speakers affordable (don't confuse with cheap).
@@slyspy9819 "Somewhat affordable" compared to other speakers that cost 15k, 20k all the way up to 130k. Yeah, I'd say yes. Have you looked on their website? Do you understand that PS Audio doesn't sell audio equipment that sells for example, $200 dollars or $500 like some companies do? Are you just figuring out in life that not all people can afford everything? You're slow. I learned that as a small child, lol! Please point out where in the video or on the PS Audio website where it says "Our audio equipment is affordable to all people." Spoiler... just because something is on UA-cam doesn't mean it's affordable to all. Wake up!
@@Mark-lq3sb Why so fresh dude I just asked a question ? Stay civil and show some class . I do understand what you're saying but that's not your average joe. I don't know anyone who has $10,000 speakers that is a bit steep because there's a balance in life of what's important to you. He's obviously catering to a higher end market and that's cool but that's not everybody. I have several systems I use in my home all together about $15K worth of gear several pairs of Martin Logans, several pairs of ADS speakers JBL original 100 Century and I'm looking always to upgrade . Peace !
Follow up question, and I really wish that Paul would include that. So lets say we take the plunge and spend 10K on a set of F10s. How much money do need to have in spare to do those speakers justice? In other words, at which point is the amplifier and source so bad that people will see the speakers as a disappointment and not worth the money? After all for many people the stop gab amplifier must keep them interested for a few years until the next cash injection.
You all want to know what the wow factor is? I thought so... Lampizator DAC.... Tekton Ulfberht speakers, McIntosh 501 amps and silver speaker and inner connect cables!...and a cheap ass Yamaha CD player all on the cheap! 😂 The best system in the world for under 30k. 😮😂
If you want a real WOW factor just look at the outrageous prices of the PS Audio speakers! When you realize that you could build the equivalent of the FR 30s for about $1000 and that all the PS Audio speakers are manufactured in China you can't help but go WOW!!!
Wow factor is not always available by nature. But that said, if you want a Wow factor, then a take a break from your Hi-Fi for at least a week and then come back and have a listen. There you will have it again your 'wow factor.'
I'm glad I don't have a 'high end' (high cost) stereo system. The wow in my (sub £1k) system came when I spent a hundred quid on a used Chord Mojo. I sincerely believe I get more enjoyment out of my stuff than some hedge fund manager chasing his tail up his arse, for the bragging rights. I'm guessing if they couldn't talk about it, they wouldn't buy it.
It's a different world for some of us. I built my system up over 60 years and the thought of just dropping thousands at a pop is not in the cards for me either. But I would, perhaps, if I could.
It's a wow...ouch!!! factor a good many , including Americans. Family first...stay in budget...get creative and you'll have that wow factor. But it's always going to be about the speakers , there nice speakers available for almost any budget , including building your own or maybe modify what you have . Do your home work first.
"Start with new speakers" is kind of a flippant answer. So, Paul, how do you actually listen to (let alone compare) different speakers? There are precious few locales to be able to compare speakers live -- a friend/neighbor's home, a trade show, a big box store or a smaller scale stereo store, etc. We do not have easy access to hear speakers in a place to properly judge their sound. Let alone compare them to other speakers. Many online stores will allow you to "borrow" different speakers for 30 days. Order three sets at a time, but get ready for lots of trips to FedEx/UPS. Then, there is the ever present problem of sound sources? Amplification? If you are going to be halfway scientific, then you have to control variables in your listening experiment (which is what you are doing). I am lucky to live near a Crutchfield store, which has great in-store setups for various speakers they sell. Also read stereo reviews, as many as you can. There are a few UA-cam reviewers that do good work. Another possible answer to the Wow factor dilemma is not new equipment -- simply listen to new music. Streaming service algorithms are getting better and better. We are all privileged to live in the best possible time for discovering new music. There is nothing better than hearing a new artist for the first time. May I recommend Mama's Broke... Go see artists perform live. Small venues are the best.
I would not recommend speakers first. Your amplifier is where all the magic happens. Detail, transparency. Hopefully natural sounding. You’ll be surprised how you can settle for less in other areas of your system when you have a great foundation! We keep chasing quality of sound through component after component. It’s a costly dead end.
I wow when I see the inside of the amps in front of Paul! So beautiful
Sometimes when I lose the wow factor it's because I haven't heard anything new in awhile. I have found what works for me is to just shut it off and walk away for a few days or weeks. Then I can come back to it with a renewed excitement.
Or just tap with the left foot for a change so it feels like somebody new.🤣
Those are huge toroidal transformers!
Wow!🤔😬😇
rubbish toroidals,that the cheapest and totally garbage transformers😂
Paul, YOU are personally responsible for me, a few years back now, rediscovering, and actually exceeding my ultimate enjoyment of my audio system and music. Having spent over 68 years in audio, and thinking I had exactly what I would always want in a huge massive rock concert like system, I built a little test bench system to experiment with some of the speaker setup concepts you were explaining in your videos. I have 2 of your books as well. In the first few minutes of the experiment, my life was forever changed. I had never experienced the kind of stage and imaging and precise detail in my massive systems that this little one was giving me. Over the next few years I expanded on what I was learning and now have a system that is so amazing that it is very difficult to turn off at night when I do my best critical listening. I always tell myself, "Just one more song". Then 10 pm is suddenly 2am, and then I thank god I am retired..LOL. Once you get to that place, some call audio nirvana, it is difficult to come back to reality. Those that have achieved this know exactly what it is. And it didn't take a ton of money either. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for a gift that has meant so much to me.
Will PS Audio fix the 600Hz dip in the FR10? (Source: Erins Audiocorner)
Always great videos - I'm a big fan. I was excited about the videos about the Infinity IRS Reference. I was able to listen to them in the 1990s. I had a few Kappa models in my possession. I'm really looking forward to the FR 5 which could be of interest to me. Best wishes from Germany 🇩🇪 Ralf
The best stereo in the world is the way one that disappears.
That said, when I was a kid I got a set of Energy C5 speakers. Saved to buy them (22 years later, still have them and enjoy the sound.) but always wanted the Veritas 2.3i's. well 21 years later, now adult me found a set for sale locally. Did the deal and for filled a childhood desire.
Are they the best in the world. No. But for me, they are. I get a buzz knowing that if your patient, with a bit of luck, you can make your kid self happy.
Don't try to keep up with the Jones's. You'll forever be unhappy and broke. Enjoy what you have and share it with those you love.
I attained that WOW factor in 2018 when I restored and modified my Altec 1570B Amplifiers with NOS RCA 811A tubes coupled with Klipsch KLF-30 speakers at 102 pounds each. Turntable Pioneer PL-516 with Vacuum Tube Audio turntable preamplifier PH16 that I built from kit. I have achieved Wow.
I paid $6K for my JBL SVA-2100's back in the 90's (and yes I still have them) and I've upgraded and upgraded my equipment but never the speakers and still love them. So I 100% agree with spend on the speakers. I eventually made it to PS Audio gear *although the 'air' came out too late here and I went with Auralic Aries 2.1)
Keep up the great work Paul.
I wanted to say I also have a love affair with the SVA-2100s, HLS-610s, and HLS-820s. They all have that fantastic sounding Audac tweeters. I traded a friend for the SVA-2100s; some years ago. They just did not work well in his room. Come to find out he just was not putting enough power to them. I recently rebuilt my listening room in 2021-2022. So I put the SVA-2100s in storage and did not have an opportunity to listen to them for about 18 months. When I finally got the room back together and put those speakers back in the room and hooked them up. WOW. I still love them as much as the day I brought them home. The stereo imaging I experience with them is just perfect and I can't imagine it getting much better to be completely honest. I was lucky enough about 6 years ago to run across some new old stock Audac tweeters for them to keep as back ups incase something goes a miss on one of them. I have been considering rebuilding the cross overs in mine; just because they are now close to 30 years old. Have you done anything with your cross overs on the SVA-2100s? If so I would be interested in hearing about what you might have done.
@@EdLawless Yeah I've been wanting to rebuild the crossovers too. But they still sound great, plenty of slam still. I'd be interested in what parts to use (not worrying about cost, just to have them at their best) I feed mine with a pair of 500w Goldmunds and even though they recommend 300w. They do sound better than the old 250w BHK
Yep, speakers first 😎👍
I bought a set of stacked large advents in the early 70s and eventually bought a PS Audio Stellar Strata and they are still sounding amazing. Thanks Paul.
Paul's also said this before: after getting the best, most resolving speakers you can buy, sound quality differences resulting from different electronic equipment in the chain as you upgrade will be more easily heard.
Slowly-varying AC line frequency using a turntable would help. :)
I don't necessarily agree with speakers first - my view is the best source first. But if you go with speakers first make sure they are efficient enough to allow a large variety of amps to drive them. Inefficient speakers will severely limit your amplification choices.
No, speakers are the most important part of the system. They make the sound you get with whatever electronics you use. Yes they have to be well matched with the amplifier, but you have to buy the best speakers you can afford or your system will be unsatisfying.
I get your point but do not agree. You can feed the best signal to some average speakers and they can only produce that ok-ish. But great speakers can impress you even with a suboptimal source. Once you have some more budget, go upgrade the source… then the amplification.
Equipment that lacks refinement and has some audible grain (lower cost), will sound even more unrefined and grainy with expensive speakers; which tend to be more revealing. You'll probanly have more bass & dynamics if you put most of your expense into speakers first. Going the opposite first will usually mean less bass (smaller, cheaper spkrs.), less dynamics (probably) but more refinement and a smoother more pleasant sound by prioritizing great source and amps first. Which do you prefer? I'd go refinement first and then later extend dynamics and low end. Buying used might let you do both for your money.
@@sidesup8286 this is not my experience(unless we talk crap sources). Usually it’s the resolution, fine detail, soundstaging etc. that is missing. But that does not help you if your speakers cannot resolve that.
@HIFI T. Small speakers, even some cheap small speakers are known for their excellent imaging. I don't think resolution, is necessarily a cheap or small speaker's problem either. Scale, dynamics and bass sometimes are. The most famous small speaker of all time is the Rogers LS3/5A. Even guys like Herb Reichert of Stereophile who is Steve Guttenbergs friend, considers the Rogers LS3/5A as one of his few favorite speakers of all time. And as a long time reviewer, he's had near 400 speakers including extreme high end ones in his room. Kelvin at Stereo X is the same way on the LS3/5A...Not showy sounding or deep bass; but they just sound SO right, even with a strategic lift in the mid/upper bass. Some say best vocal reproduction ever. Of course they're expensive now that they're a collectors item and the biggest cult speaker of all time; and for good reason. I own KEF Reference 101s for my bedroom system, which has the same drivers used in the LS3/5A.But there are "cheap" vintage speakers which image like crazy and have some of the best resolution I have ever heard. A dbx speaker with a little 5 inch driver springs to mind. Available used for less than $150, usually. You'd be surprised how amazing some cheap speakers sound when driven with a quality source and amp. There are cheap subwoofers with kevlar cones that you can pick up for $80 that are good. And despite what a lot of people say, matching up subwoofers with another dynamic speaker is not so hard. Electrostats are different You'll probably get it right on the first try.
So in my experience I have heard cheap speakers with great resolution and imaging. I just haven't heard cheap electronics with JFet, VFet or tube sweetness. Who would want lack of refinement and grain better clarified anyway; if that were really the case?
thank you Paul for dumbing this very complex subject down into something that most people can understand. i will be up in Colorado in late may, so i can drive to aspen, and i will be stopping by PS Audio. i would really like to hear the IRS-V and then compare them to the fr30s. my favorite sounds live below 35hz.
When I first got incredibly lucky to get a pair of aDs 910s I was ecstatic but I wanted to know if the specs shown were accurate. It didn't take too long for me to realize that the 28htz-25khtz was exactly correct, and when I got a pair of reconditioned tweeters for them (and they also are a match for my L810s as well) I became more bold and cranked up the music a bit and found that I didn't need a subwoofer with them, though the sub did bring some oomph to kick drums. All in all, pretty great coming from almost fifty-year-old loudspeakers.
My pleasure. We don't have the IRSV connected anymore for comparison. You can see it but you can't play it. The aspens are what we can play for you. Look forward to your visit.
Mr Mcgowan can correct me, however I believe PS Audio is based in the Boulder area, not Aspen.
Exactly. Boulder, Colorado@@audioamateur
@@audioamateur it is in boulder. i am taking a vacation to drive around the mountains of Colorado and stopping by PS Audio is on the way.
Don't overlook the possibility that the problem requires Renee to seek out new exciting music, rather than new audio equipment. I find many audiophiles listen to the same songs over and over again because that is a familiar sound for them to assess the system on, but ultimately the "wow" factor eludes them because the music has become too familiar (I hesitate to say boring).
IMHO Renèe, I would call it adulthood. Nothing more, nothing less.
The problem with an expression like "wow factor",is that it's an emotional response and isn't an absolute that applies to everyone. What might seem like "wow" to one person may not to another. Someone listening to drum and bass at high SPL will mostly desire "impact" ,"attack" etc,where another who prefers choral works,or string quartets might want more natural refinement to the presentation. One thing I'd suggest is perhaps taking a vacation from high end audio for a while,then coming back to it afresh.If the poster gives himself enough time to forget how good a well sorted audio system can sound,upon returning to it he'll be surprised all over again at the attainable performance.
lol..... Standing in front of toroidal power supplies that could power my entire house. Love it.
Important subject. Decades ago I got a quick lesson in what this was all about when hearing a pair of KEF Reference 105´s for the first time. I bought and still have them. And in those rare cases where anything is comparable, it always comes with the price tag of a house.
Except for the potential age problem (which happens to all equipment), they are the bargain of a lifetime these days. And age will always be a problem when something is so good that you don´t want to replace it.
The IMF Reference Standard Mk. IV, has a nicer vocal range than the 105, (it used KEF drivers among others), and it's ttansmission line bass loading is far deeper and also tighter than the 105. The Celestion tweeter on the 105 is very transparent. It sounds slightly and I do mean slightly more like the sound is coming from a box than the 105. It throws a big beautiful image.Those speakers were both from around 1980. The 105 is good but even in 1980 you could have done better, arguably and subjectively for far less than 1/2 more money. That you'd NEED to spend as much as a house to equal them in todays market?? You NEED to hear more speakers. Driver technology at the higher end, for less than even a downpayment on a house, is obviously superior. Are you strategizing putting them up for sale and hoping someone is influenced by your post?
Correction;I meant the Celestion tweeter on the IMF.
@@sidesup8286 Never heard about IMF speakers. Must be nice. Nope, I´m not selling. If there´s one thing I´m sure of it´s that as long as I live and can make my own decisions, My KEF´s is the one thing I never get rid of. In fact, the last time I saw another pair for sale, I bought them.
It's impressive you've retained your wow experience over the years - congrats!
The MBL 101 X-treme gave me the biggest wow of any speaker I've heard
Mine too
You got that right.
Paul doesn't though really explain the parts of the wow factor, which can be extended base, better highs, improved soundstage, etc. or all of these.
Yes, I mostly think of the wow factor happening at the two extremes, but it can happen in the middle, too.
That's interesting, as it's the exact opposite advice from Linn's late Ivor Tiefenbrun, who said Start with the source and work forwards in the chain....I guess there's no right answer, just different perspectives....
Those amplifiers are the best design ie massive transformer,tube pre signal stage etc I am in love with them
just go for kit speakers and some really good stuff out there and you should be able to build a good kit for under a thousand dollars seas make some good kits monoprice Wilson audio you can get the complete kit CND boards cut for you, just glue it together make the crossover, put the drivers in finish it if you feel confident with a veneer or just paint it. Keep away from MDF or HDF. chipboard is probably the best work top chipboard 25mm thick you can buy for about $80 for a 8 ft sheet, or use marine ply 18mm thick. seas, scan speak, volt drivers. they supply the crossovers you need anyway for the designs they recommend.
there's no reason why you can't spend just under $1,000 and be good as any $8 ,000 speak or better
I would say anybody that loses the factor or takes for granted their speakers even if they’re mature load here go back to TV speakers tried for about three months on TV speakers or very low speakers and you quickly appreciate the factor that was lost
I just saw a review of a $30,000 pair of loudspeakers on another UA-cam channel. The reviewer was all gaga over the nuances in his favorite music that he could hear and explained what he could hear in which recording. He said they were, by far, the best speakers he had ever heard. I listened for the nuances on my speakers, which are significantly less expensive (but not cheap), and couldn't hear them. I then listened on my upscale headphones/headphone amp/DAC, and could hear every one of them. Despite that, it was clear that my speakers reproduced the vast majority of the music quite accurately, I concluded that I wouldn't spend $30,000 to add another small fraction of a percent to my listening experience. If you already have good equipment you're unlikely to get an additional wow factor anywhere near what was possible 20 years ago from upgrading.
GM ☕️
Given that gear ⚙️ has gotten better ..the biggest thing you can do is continue to explore new music..a quality streamer and DAC and yes, Paul’s right a great speaker will grow as the system evolves.
I think the WOW factor means different things to different people. Bright speakers may give you the WOW factor to later on become fatiguing. I wouldn't spend 10 grand on speakers with 1,000.00 amplifier. Synergy is what your after. There are many speakers under 5 grand that can give you the WOW factor with the right amp. It's all based on your budget. I run a Parasound Amp with Paridigm speakers. the amp has plenty of Bass punch, warm mid-range and extended highs. The Paradigms are somewhat the same. if if find a recording to bright i just dial back the treble a db or 2 since it has tone controls. But most of the time is pretty damn good. Reveling without being fatiguing.
Flash backs and memories. I saved up for my first stereo a Panasonic RA6600 AM FM Receiver with 8 Track player. I use to get all the audio magazines and spend hours reading them. Then the DAK catalogues and Drew Kaplan's crazy copy writing had me buying Cerwin Vega speakers and a BSR EQ. A trip to Crazy Eddie's and a Akai cassette was added. My real big upgrade came years later with an Adcom preamp and Adcom GFA-555 amp.
Crazy Eddies...take me back brother...
Dear Paul I have been eagerly following the development of FR series for almost an year now. I have speakers from wharfedale like dentons and their jade series. I have a room size 12 by 22 by 11. Which Fr series speakers will be best suited for that room.
Regards
Cool! You could grab any of the floor standers from the 10s to the 30s and be happy. I would probably go right in the middle with the 20s.
One day, I want to compare
PS Audio, McIntosh, Accuphase,
Luxman, Classé and Gryphon gear.
Good luck figuring how to do that.😀
One can dream.
Whew, even by high end standards, Gryphon is scary expensive.
Luxman makes a 20K$ preamp.
But Classé is from my hometown.
Montreal represent.
I remember my first system was a sony cfd454 it was a mini stereo and the cd part was the best sound quality and detail I ever heard even to this day I plugged it into a big stereo later the cd player had dual 45 bit dac don't know what they did but had same sound as the 4000$ big players had since then I tried to get that sound
Good speakers are important. However, I have always been of the mind that a good high current amp will improve the performance of any loud speaker. Therefore , keep the speakers you have. When your ready to drop some big bucks on speakers you'll know they will be driven properly.
Wow! look at those transformers!
i think they are the 250 bhk sig's.. seriously wow
Ha! I am pretty sure my amp is in that pile.
Once I heard what a good pair of open baffle speakers could do , there was no going back to box speakers . They also can be easier to position for best sound . Paul is right , speakers 1st
I am very interested in using the FR5s as studio monitors and for just personal listening with a nice subwoofer or course. Will you be using the FR5s at Octave for near fielding monitoring too?
Try the new SACD discs!!
You are talking to a Dutch person. The wow is determined by how little he has spent for the sound 😂
😂
A friend of mine said: "The Dutch have lots of stuff, but it's really SMALL stuff!"
😂
That’s why we Dutch people all have the Kef LS50 meta’s… second hand 😂 😂😂
As a fellow Dutch person I can strongly recommend Dynaudio Evoke 10 - guaranteed bass dynamics, midrange engagement and non-fatiguing treble for long listening, all at a relatively affordable price.
10K somewhat affordable?. I'll stick with my Klipsch....but if I had 10K to spend on speakers I would probably go with the Noesis 215RT since I like horn speakers.
When Paul talks about PS audio -speakers, he forgets mentioning that there's a massive pricedifference between The US and the rest of the world.
There's importtaxes and also, you can only buy through dealers so they need to get their share too.
I thought Paul was going to break out in song with "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got no swing"
😅😅
My paradigm founder 120s with a built in 1000 watt amplifier were a very good choice. In search of an amplifier to pair with my anthem 1140 to power the mid range and tweeter. Any suggestions?
I think your sound equipment will achieve the WOW factor !
Could not agree more... start with output and work backwards... Seems counter intuitive especially according to Linn.... (?).
Well said
Speakers always seem to give me the biggest wow factor but please don’t forget about treating the room . You’ll never hear the full potential of your speakers/system if your room isn’t conducive
I love it ...the FR10 he says somewhat affordable at a measly 10,000 a pair. That's a WOW factor all right . Paul just who is your target audience (lol) ?
Anyone that can afford them... Obviously!
@@Mark-lq3sb Obviously not your average joe who works for a living with kids (lol)
It's all very relative... Anyway there's lot of brands making good sounding speakers on entry level. Only you will decide if it's 500 or 5.000. Average salary in US is nearly 60.000 and on average less than 2 kids per family so I'd consider 10.000 speakers affordable (don't confuse with cheap).
@@slyspy9819
"Somewhat affordable" compared to other speakers that cost 15k, 20k all the way up to 130k. Yeah, I'd say yes. Have you looked on their website? Do you understand that PS Audio doesn't sell audio equipment that sells for example, $200 dollars or $500 like some companies do?
Are you just figuring out in life that not all people can afford everything? You're slow.
I learned that as a small child, lol! Please point out where in the video or on the PS Audio website where it says "Our audio equipment is affordable to all people." Spoiler... just because something is on UA-cam doesn't mean it's affordable to all. Wake up!
@@Mark-lq3sb Why so fresh dude I just asked a question ? Stay civil and show some class . I do understand what you're saying but that's not your average joe. I don't know anyone who has $10,000 speakers that is a bit steep because there's a balance in life of what's important to you. He's obviously catering to a higher end market and that's cool but that's not everybody. I have several systems I use in my home all together about $15K worth of gear several pairs of Martin Logans, several pairs of ADS speakers JBL original 100 Century and I'm looking always to upgrade . Peace !
Follow up question, and I really wish that Paul would include that. So lets say we take the plunge and spend 10K on a set of F10s. How much money do need to have in spare to do those speakers justice? In other words, at which point is the amplifier and source so bad that people will see the speakers as a disappointment and not worth the money? After all for many people the stop gab amplifier must keep them interested for a few years until the next cash injection.
You all want to know what the wow factor is? I thought so... Lampizator DAC.... Tekton Ulfberht speakers, McIntosh 501 amps and silver speaker and inner connect cables!...and a cheap ass Yamaha CD player all on the cheap! 😂 The best system in the world for under 30k. 😮😂
Rene, is listening to the hifi not the music. That's his problem
Wow
There's no wow factor listening to lofi music
Obviously you haven’t experienced good music with a wow factor system
You *must listen* to the music. How else are you going to know what your equipment is or isn't doing?
If you want a real WOW factor just look at the outrageous prices of the PS Audio speakers!
When you realize that you could build the equivalent of the FR 30s for about $1000 and that all the PS Audio speakers are manufactured in China you can't help but go WOW!!!
Wow factor is not always available by nature.
But that said, if you want a Wow factor, then a take a break from your Hi-Fi for at least a week and then come back and have a listen. There you will have it again your 'wow factor.'
I'm glad I don't have a 'high end' (high cost) stereo system. The wow in my (sub £1k) system came when I spent a hundred quid on a used Chord Mojo. I sincerely believe I get more enjoyment out of my stuff than some hedge fund manager chasing his tail up his arse, for the bragging rights. I'm guessing if they couldn't talk about it, they wouldn't buy it.
I lose the wow factor when I listen to my hifi system, but never when I listen to the music.
Walk away for a while. You may come back and say WOW. If not time for change.
If you ain't Dutch you ain't much. 🙂
4000 is cheap? For this price we europeans have the WOW OUCH factor!!!!
It's a different world for some of us. I built my system up over 60 years and the thought of just dropping thousands at a pop is not in the cards for me either. But I would, perhaps, if I could.
It's a wow...ouch!!! factor a good many , including Americans. Family first...stay in budget...get creative and you'll have that wow factor. But it's always going to be about the speakers , there nice speakers available for almost any budget , including building your own or maybe modify what you have . Do your home work first.
Im serious as a heart attack ❤
Hello, an average Dutch person won't spend that much on speakers.
"Start with new speakers" is kind of a flippant answer. So, Paul, how do you actually listen to (let alone compare) different speakers? There are precious few locales to be able to compare speakers live -- a friend/neighbor's home, a trade show, a big box store or a smaller scale stereo store, etc. We do not have easy access to hear speakers in a place to properly judge their sound. Let alone compare them to other speakers. Many online stores will allow you to "borrow" different speakers for 30 days. Order three sets at a time, but get ready for lots of trips to FedEx/UPS. Then, there is the ever present problem of sound sources? Amplification? If you are going to be halfway scientific, then you have to control variables in your listening experiment (which is what you are doing). I am lucky to live near a Crutchfield store, which has great in-store setups for various speakers they sell. Also read stereo reviews, as many as you can. There are a few UA-cam reviewers that do good work.
Another possible answer to the Wow factor dilemma is not new equipment -- simply listen to new music. Streaming service algorithms are getting better and better. We are all privileged to live in the best possible time for discovering new music. There is nothing better than hearing a new artist for the first time. May I recommend Mama's Broke... Go see artists perform live. Small venues are the best.
I would not recommend speakers first. Your amplifier is where all the magic happens. Detail, transparency. Hopefully natural sounding. You’ll be surprised how you can settle for less in other areas of your system when you have a great foundation! We keep chasing quality of sound through component after component. It’s a costly dead end.
Change your speaker cables and see how much wow you get lmao
Speaker cables would make a difference but can’t replace good speakers.
maybe he is just becoming a bit too old?
Please, explain "too old" to us.
I love the BS .
So, why do you put-up with it?
Ahhh, that’s nice