I listened to Digital Equalizers before in two Yamaha AV Receivers and my experience with them for Classic Rock Music was awful. Well maybe that's just Yamaha. However using a Anolog 31 Band Graphic Equalizer by DBX with a Rotel Pre Amp and Power amp was a completely a different experience. It sounded wonderful.
EQ's are a must as far as I'm concerned . Audio recordings come with so many imperfections (such as compression) and then there's different studio engineers deciding how it should sound based on that studio , on and on it goes. An equalizer is so important for tailoring the sound for you the listener and the room in which you'll listen. Like I said "A MUST"
If I didn't have my 6 band Schiit Lokius tone control I wouldn't bother listening. Recorded music is ALL OVER the place no matter what you're playing. Flat is Not always where it's at.
I just modify gear to make it sound to my taste.But the recordings might not be the biggest problem to you, perhaps the voicing of the devices it not to your taste.
I'm with you there. The room also plays a huge part and there is no such thing as a perfect room. Sometimes EQ is not needed depending on the recording and such, but EQ is needed often. I have a vintage Sansui 8080db that has three way (or is it four?) tone controls, that I do have to use from time to time. I also have a vintage Marantz 2238 that has three way tone controls, but I rarely have to touch them. My "high-end" system has two tone controls on the preamp. I leave them defeated mostly. I have that system set up and 100% dialed in and find that the tone controls or indeed an EQ is not needed. However, most of the headphones I have and have tried I could not use without EQ and tone controls don't cut it. I'm not a big headphone listener at all, I avoid it when ever I can. I do use headphones for my work in the hobby though. I use studio monitor headphones that are real close to being near perfectly flat. I personally like the sound of them and could see myself using them for listening, if they were more comfortable. I know flat doesn't appeal to most folks and that is understandable. The speakers hooked to my PC are also studio monitors that are flat. They are great for digitizing analog, but not all that for just listening. I don't use my PC as a source just as I don't use a phone as a source....yuck! I have nothing against streaming and the like, but for me I far prefer vinyl records and CDs for serious listening. I reserve streaming for background and research.
I think if we all had perfect rooms designed with music in mind, then going without a graphic would be just fine. But in the real world, there are often imperfections that can't be overcome unless we have very deep pockets, and a graphic can help tremendously. I have a pretty decent system that produces a very wide and deep soundstage, but I have an awkwardly shaped room that even after room treatment, has a very pronounced bump at 80hz which is very annoying. I got a dbx analogue graphic, and it solved the problem of attenuating that frequency and things now sound excellent. The soundstage/depth hasn't changed at all, I noticed it introduced a very small amount of hiss, but that is hardly noticeable unless I get right up to the tweeter. So for me, the benefits gained were worth it.
Happy Birthday Mr. Paul !!! I have set FabFilter Pro-Q 3 in Audirvana and wouldn't want to live without it. Just a little tweak to handle a room-mode at 98Hz helps incredibly at slightly higher volumes. At lower volumes the filter stays off. When listening analog I don't use an EQ, since it would have to be an analog filter, which is not a good idea, as you stated correctly. So then I switch to my little speakers. ;-) Best wishes to you, stay healthy and keep on rockin' ! 👍
Thanks Paul for all your videos! One thing I noticed in this one: there's deep bass rumbling throughout the video, kinda sounds like a truck outside our building with our 15" REL 😂
There are so many recordings out there that benefit from some tweaking, especially overcompressed DR recordings (almost everything new). In my opinion this far overrides any audiophile purist fears of 'something else in the signal path'. Audiophiles are strange creatures. They grasp on theoretical issues like dogma to the detriment of real life listening pleasure. But, whatever floats your boat, right?
👏🏼👏🏼👍 very well said I would’ve added if your stereo is not so high end sometimes you don’t really hear the difference and in that case an equalizer would definitely make it more fun because you’re not hearing any minute details to begin with
I've got a little Schitt Loki tone control in my all analogue chain, very simple 3 band equaliser, and it's superb, I don't notice any introduction of noise. But actually, since I've upgraded my amp, I've not found the need to have it in the circuit as the presentation of the amp has filled out the sound. But I still have it and won't get rid of it, it's an amazing piece of kit for the price.
Digital EQ might not be possible. Your ears will decide if an analog EQ improves the sound or not. If it improves some music but not all, there's always the bypass button.
Years ago, I had a 12 band ADC equalizer in my system, which consisted of a Yamaha receiver, B&O turntable, and Infinity speakers. Even at that level, I could tell when the equalizer was switched in. One time, I was actually able to zero in on a problem with one song. I was proud of myself, until I realized that the improvement was minor, and didn’t change the overall level of reproduction. From then on, the equalizer was kept off.
My Mcintosh amp has an 8 band equalizer which admittedly I auditioned switched out and not intending to use it. And with good recordings it isn't required. However, a lot of CD's I buy suffer from 'loudness wars' issues (rock/metal in particular) and I've found some curtailing of the bass and enhancement in upper mids and lower treble make those recording much more listenable and hence enjoyable. My previous Naim amps followed the 'purist' path of nothing in the signal path and made far too many recordings unpleasant for repeated listening. Is the McIntosh as transparent as purist amps...perhaps not. Is it more enjoyable...from my experience, yes.
I went through my graphic equalizer phase in the 1980’s with a 10 band soundshaper. It took a while to realize I was ruining the sound with that, then I went through the receiver period with bass, treble controls. Now I have an integrated amp with no tone controls to worry about. Completely agree with Paul, No crap in the signal path for me. But to each his own.
I agree with Paul. I use my equalizer on my McIntosh very rarely just to add some treble on older recordings. However, just as he said, it does crunch the imaging. To solve that, I just avoid bad recordings. There’s so much good quality music out there waiting to be discovered.
As I get older I have times my ears play up, particularly the left one, whilst going through ear drops ready for a clean out I can use the DSP filters on my Roon core and also balance it out better for listening. Always fun when my ear gets better again to hear the way it was setup with bad hearing. Straight back off again
If you use EQ's (like I do..). It helps to have a "constant-Q" EQ made with high quality op-amps. You also need to have the option of switching it out and a "test record" (or test CD) to establish a "room curve".
Paul you are correct. Vintage EQs are not very good. But modern ones work fine. And the one built into my Macintosh is fantastic. The tone controls in my Luxman are also perfectly fine. I have a Schiit Loki in one of my systems and it doesn’t degrade anything. In another system I have a ADI-2 DAC with a built in digital EQ and yes doing it in the digital domain works really well. Funny that equipment manufacturers add their own sound signature to their products then object to the customer wanting to add their own sound. Many say you want to keep the recording as intended. Intended by the musicians or the equipment manufacturers?
I have a very revealing system. Audio Research Ref 750s mono amps. Ref 6 SE pre. Ref 9 CDP. B&W Matrix 800 speakers. Audio quest Dragons HC and source PCs. Audio quest Thunder bird XLR ICs. Straight wire Crescendo Tri wired speaker cables. I added a Mclntosh MQ 112 equalizer to my system and it is phenomenal. Does not take away nothing but adds so much more. Just what the doctor ordered.
During my initial years, I used to enjoy using equalizer and bump up the Bass and Treble. Nowadays, I enjoy the purist music in a revealing system, without equalizer, and as the artist & studio recorded the music. Finally, one has to enjoy the music during all phases of our musical journey. Cheers❤
I could not listen to music without EQ. People who go on against their use are not Audiophiles, simply Audiofools. I can understand if you have a pure analogue system, but most systems are digital these days with such easy access to lossless, high resolution services.
Regardless of the discussion about the merits and draw backs of analog graphic equalizers, it seems Paul made more of an argument against operational amplifiers. That is a completely different discussion.
i once had older equipment that benefit from an EQ... but then i upgraded to substancial gear i ditched the EQ and it was better then ever! I never looked back... keep the signal chain pure. EQs are to compensate for medeocre equipment and poorly setup rooms
Happy Birthday Paul! I love me a digital EQ and wish more devices or apps supported it. Of course I love to tinker and am also not an audiophile by any means, but I love playing around with my sound while I am relatively new to the world of high end audio.
For some weeks now, I use the McIntosh MQ 112 between my pre- and poweramps. It is brilliant. Fine-tuned and adapted my system to my listening room, compensating for bad recording qualities: I will no longer listen without a proper equalization, no matter if it‘s flat not. My ears decide!
This is the FIRST time I've realized that most people aren't paying attention to the Soundstage, Imagining and all the nuances present in a well-built system in a well-tuned room. I think most of us "hacks" just slap together a bunch of great components without enough attention to the room, placement, source material, sitting position, etc. I have a bunch of beautiful components but haven't really "Curated" a system to get the most out of it.
Digital EQ *can* be great, with good software and a lot of experience, but it takes a while to learn what you're doing. Analogue EQ is something you'd better do your research and pay for the quality, if you're determined to go that route, because it WILL have effects beyond just the frequency balance, as Paul said, but it can be done well with minimal "damage", and sometimes a necessity for that equipment in that space. I've got a music background, so I'm hoping to do an EQ/frequency tutorial at some point that could really help a lot of people understand frequency and how to know exactly a very small range to go straight for when you hear a problem or want to play a known tune and find a note.
High end equipment VERY RARELY has tone control adjustment. It looks like an inordinate number of people on this high end forum do not have high end equipment. Not just this forum/channel either. It is said that a relatively small amount of people in places like this, actually have high end sound quality or high end equipment. I once had a great moving coill cartridge whose high end had a slight rise. But the highs were so clean and smooth that I didn't mind it. It just sounded like there was more treble. A less clean cartridge with a rising high end, would have made many unpleasant sounds up there.
Digital all the way. I suppose my miniDSP for the main system is a kinda an equalizer but its so much more. A really powerful tool if you like to tinker.
If your speakers cant be positioned in the correct place, like a car, or a home, an equalizer helps. If your speakers are positioned correctly, then throw the equalizer away, except if you like listening at low volume, an equalizer can give you more better bass.
Then, back in the day, there was the press release announcement of DBX's new self calibrating EQ. It came with a calibrated mic. I forget whether it generated a sweep tone of white noise? But then did a 20Hz-20Khz sweep and set the levels for each band. At the back of the room as a Rep, I asked that if the speaker was doubling from say a 60hz signal the distortion would be extra energy at 120Hz. The unit would detect 60Hz being low and boost it. Causing more distortion at 120Hz. It would then lower the 120Hz because of the 60hz signal distortion energy. I was escorted out.
I have a Technics Receiver that has a 7 band Graphic Equalizer built in to the receiver and the sound is phenomenal. This receiver is about 35 years old and going storng. Works perfect. In my opinion A graphic Equalizer is a must have. For these reasons, Sometimes you buy a CD or a Vinyl Record which does not sound as good as the other CD's and records in your collection. You can tweak the sound so that it is better. If you don't have a equilizer you cannot of course do this, You just have to live with the CD or record that has crummy sound, when all of the other recordings in your collection sound fantastic
I'm lucky enough to have a preamp with seperate tape loops and processor loop. The EQ is there if I'd like to use it, or its not if that's what I would prefer. As I get older I find myself using it more and more. but to denigrate someone simply because they choose to use a piece of equipment in their hobby, just doesn't seem necessary to me.
Good discussion, and while I certainly subscribe to the pursuit system setup, I think the most important metric is enjoyment of the music, which IMO is 100% subjective. If OP finds that using a graphic EQ enhances his music listening experience, it's all good (there's no right or wrong)... you can try tweaking and changing based on recommendations to see if it improves your experience, but once you truly love the music your system provides then I feel that's what matters most. Focusing on the hardware is definitely a fun part of the hobby, but ultimately I think music enjoyment is the audiophile ethos we're trying to achieve!
I have two beautiful JBL4312B's. I really like that R'N'R look, it reminds me of guitar amps. But their sound is pretty flat since they are control monitors so i fixed that very successfully using vintage JVC eq. Tested it without changing curve and gotta say - losses are minimal to none, i'm much more happier with what i got. They sound perfect. Ofcourse - doing all of that just to keep them because or their looks exclude me from any serious discussion but that's how i roll 😅. Good trade-off for me especially because some recordings are just bad and they need intervention.
Many forget that, "Frequency Response", is a Complex Variable. The Amplitude response is the Real component and the Phase response is the Imaginary component of said Complex Variable. If one reads the works of Dr. Richard Heyser in the JAES concerning the utilization of the Hilbert Transform, IF the loudspeaker system's Phase and Amplitude responses are Hilbert Transforms of each other, graphically, via visual inspection, mirror images of each other, then the system is a minimum phase network. By employing equalization of the Amplitude response, Phase response may be degraded/altered, and the audiophile, "Magic", may be lost. He explains how, if memory serves, a very inexpensive, piezoelectric(?) tweeter may be equalized in the Amplitude domain, to match an electrostatic transducer, in only the Amplitude domain, again, if memory serves, the two will reproduce perceptually vastly different events.
Spot on. I use Camilladsp in the digital domain to correct frequency peaks at the listening chair. It is integrated into moOde, the player software and works like a charm.
I know a fella with a very specific type of hearing loss, his sensitivity to any frequency above about 10K is severely limited. He uses an equalizer to really boost those higher frequencies so that HE can still hear and enjoy his music. It is almost impossible for me to listen to it set that way, but it is his system and his enjoyment in his home so who am I to judge.
Short story of a graphic equalizer I added to my system about 30 years ago ... I also loved the effect in the beginning ... then I noticed, that my EQ would add some humming noise to the audio, whenever the graphical spectrum display (build with an 8x8 Led-array) was switched on. But even when switched off it added something sounding like coming from a white-noise generator (but only very faint) ... so after a while of playing with it (because in the end, that's what it was), I got rid of it, and enjoyed the stereo-signal just as it came out of the speakers.
Competent DAC's are not in need of any equalization. Less is more when it comes to the audio signal. The easiest way I have found to play with equalization is to computer source your system, install Foobar2000 (Free bit perfect playback) with the SACD and one other addon to be able to playback DSD files (found at Octave Records) and to use the built in digital EQ. That solves any hit you would take in sound quality using an analog EQ. Audiophiles also do not use receivers or tone controls of any kind. When the electronics are right their is nothing to fix with an EQ. imho.
Recordings needing equalized; we're talking about tteble mostly, aren't we? If your system is ultra clean, the thing that might work best is to have a tonal balance where the highs are slightly on the bright side. To compensate for dull recordings. It's a real balancing act. With a slightly uplifted treble on a system that is NOT ultra clean, you are going to hear hardness and harshness often. But if your system is ultra clean sounding, a little more treble will just sound like there is a little more treble. Crisper but a still smooth sound. Lessening distortion is the best thing one can do for their system. Too much treble will mess with the harmonic overtone structure however.
I've spent an absurd amount of time over the years tuning my system and room to get the sound I want without EQ. And I'm thrilled with the results. But, as the OP stated, there are variables between media which need to be tweeked to our personal taste. But this can be greatly minimized, across the board, with proper design and setup before you ever need to EQ adjust. This also goes for any other kind of processing as well. I've used dynamic range enhancers, sonic holography, compressors, aural exciters etc, over the years and still have some instances where I like to do some modification to the signal. But as Paul said, there are systems that get negatively impacted by the added circuitry with their inherent phase anomalies and distortions to the stage and detail. So like so many things, use processors judiciously and minimally for the finest results. Oh and let's not forget the DSP craze. Do your absolute best to get your system mechanically aligned and setup for your room BEFORE using DSP to iron out the final little wrinkles. Happy Birthday Paul.
I found that modifying my system and getting it right made even the Roon DSP options having such degrading 'side' effects to the sound, that always the desired modification is figured out and implemented in the analog domain. Either way, digital or analogue, it seems always something can be improved. But soldering is fun.
How to tell if equalizer is in digital domain? I have Technics SH-8066 - is it digital or analog? There’s no knobs - it has touch sensitive controls - so no hum or hiss from potentiometers that I’m able to hear. Even no noticeable change in sound quality from my vinyl…
I just deleted my last comment. Paul, you’re absolutely right. I placed a Schitt Loki in my audio system so I can use my iPhone as my source. Since then, I’ve replaced my phone for my Mac Mini. I also listened to the advice by Mr Kanta from Thomas & Stereo. He said that his music sounds less transmissive with the Loki. So, when I woke up, I replaced my Loki by using the EQ (digitally sourced) on my Apple Music. Yes, I noticed distortion disappear and imagery sharpened. Plus, I was able to customize my sound better because I now have 10 channels vs 4 channels that my Loki has. I guess this means more equipment to give to my nephews and/or nieces.
The vast majority of people don't have equipment, and an even much higher percentage don't have a room to take advantage of flat sound. It sounds terrible on mine. Whether it's to much bass, that's very common thanks late 90s CDs, muted vocals or tinny treble. Listening to different types of music, Foo Fighters and Don Williams and Tchaikovsky and Mamamoo all hit different. It took a long time to get a somewhat balanced sound because of an equalizer.
With a great setup and equipment, you shouldn't need EQ most of the time. Of course, in the hands of the public they've been used to make a bad system worse many times. We even have preset EQ now, multiple choices to make it sound even worse. I have an odd room and bargain equipment, just stuck in an old graphic and definitely helps, in tiny increments. Wouldn't have held out this long without the amp controls.
digital filters , make use of digital signal processors embedded systems and by utilising , fast fourrier transforms programming techniques , making used of infinite or finite impulse response digital filter algorithms , working in the z transformations domain , and thus realizings a set of audio digital filters , from low to high frequency audio signals .
A test. Hear what happens. Connect your left and right eq in series. From one eq adjust the first fader up, the second down, the third up etc. From the other eq you do just the opposit. I bet it sounds horrible.
I know there’s a Scottish influence (is it bad luck to mention their name?) who put a Space Optimisation function in their DSMs which can have the room attributes entered in so that any deficiencies can be ironed out. This functionality is optional (even though that isn’t made clear on their website). I believe there also some loudspeaker profiles also setup to also aid with differences between manufacturers and models.
I wish this guy would stop "living" in the '70s!! Things have changed a lot over the decades. Tone controls and EQ don't pollute the sound like they once did.
As a Hi-Fi enthusiast of 45 years experience, I've NEVER owned a Graphic Equaliser. I've always believed they're unnecessary for a good system, and an unnecessary extra link in the system chain! I'm surprised to see several polar opposite comments to mine. Perhaps things have changed since I first got into Hi-Fi? Oh well, each to his / her own?
In 40 years of Hi-Fi, I've never been tempted by equalizers, simply because I was aware that I risked degrading the music even more... because I'm zero when it comes to setting frequency bands 😅😅
The BASS and TREBLE knobs are basically doing what Paul is saying so why not add a larger adjustable Graphic Equalizer? I never use the 'DIRECT' button on my amp. If I had the $$$$ I'd go with a Digital EQ but with as much Tinnitus that i have I would not hear the differences so why not boost it to my liking's and if you don't like it, don't let the door bruise your back side on the way out.
If the music ( the software that runs the system) was better recorded and mastered..they’d be less need to “fix it” ..but some times there may be no choice…
I believe part of the reason "audiophiles" don't like graphic EQs is because they don't understand or know how to use them. I used graphic EQs for years (and learned how to use them of course). That said, back in the day most graphic EQs on the market though were awful, poorly built. Often times they would introduce unwanted harmonics and noise one could easily detect with one's ears. Good EQs should be unnoticeable to the ear in terms of anything being introduced. Sadly, one is hard pressed today to find a good EQ for a system. (There are good EQs for use in headphone situations available though). I might add that the old gear with built-in EQs or tone controls were never a problem. Today, we have digital EQ, which virtually eliminates all the worries about introduction of unwanted harmonics and noise. The problem is that with digital EQs is that they are difficult to fine tune. The other problem is that there are no digital EQs that I know of that work with analog gear or analog media. I'd love to see a graphic digital EQ as a component for systems (at a earth-based price of course). All records and even CDs are not created equal, rooms certainly aren't and if one rents, one is severely restricted in acoustical treatments and the like. This is what EQs massively help with. I also personally find EQs mandatory with headphone listening. I'm waiting for someone to come out with a headphone or device that doesn't require one to be chained to a PC that can fix the complete lack of staging with headphones. I can't stand the feeling of my eyes being squeezed together with the extremely narrow or lack of staging of headphones. That is why I am a speakers guy (tower speakers to be precise). Just two cents worth of ramble.
As audiophile and purist, I don’t want tubes in the signal path. I absolutely also don’t want an analog EQ. But most certainly I want an audiophile DSP based EQ and agree with Paul. But now I’m using products from other brands and keep praying for Paul to make the best ever audiophile one. And of course the PS audio DSP box needs to have ability to also do active cross-over with two 3-way speakers and 2 subwoofers. That means I need 8 outputs. I currently use a miniDSP Flex that can do this, but I want something more audiophile.
have you considered voicing the devices yourself or with help of an audio tech? Even very small and simpel changes can make the sound more to your taste. I don't like even digital EQ in Roon, all my previous experience led to deciding to leave all that alone. And I must agree that it is really hard keeping tubes in the signal path, I switched my AudioNote DAC with tube output stage for another much better DAC with opamps in the output. I love the better AN Dacs but it's so much cleaner.
@@edmaster3147 I don’t like tube distortion thus I don’t like tubes. The worst EQ is the RIAA filter for vinyl playback and that’s one good reason I left behind vinyl. Vinyl also has serious noise, wow&flutter, compression and distortion issues. Digital EQ can be really awesome with no side effects. There is no voicing gear other than speakers and room acoustics. I don’t want to use gear that significantly impacts tonal balance other than speakers. But even the best of speakers can be tweaked with modern DSP EQ.
@@ThinkingBetter Did you know that the sound of lets say an output stage will change with changing components? This has a greater effect than EQ in fact. If an opamp has cerarmic caps on its + and - power inputs, it will sound different than film caps; more important, the high frequencies can to a certain point being fed, but will never start to sound right if the device is voiced 'dark'. There is more to it all then sliding a bit around in a DSP and EQ.
@@edmaster3147 Hey, I should tell you that I’ve worked professionally in audio R&D since the early 90s, including high-end gear, and of course I understand how the signal integrity through electronics can be impacted by various engineering design decisions including circuit type, component choices, thermal drift and so on. Yes of course electronics can sound different but any well designed electronics analog audio circuitry can be near flat from 20Hz to 20kHz. In no way can you pick audiophile grade electronics that brings in place a proper frequency response compensation for any room issue, speaker performance issue or hearing issue. Usually in a worst-case audio circuits are dropping a bit in the higher treble but that’s actually opposite to what you want from an EQ compensation. I usually like +5dB at 12kHz (I call that rejuvenation EQ) and +3dB at 30Hz from a total linear response. None of that can be achieved by equipment choice.
@@ThinkingBetter ahah yes linearity issues are fun.I use EQ for getting an idea of what I want and then implementing it. It might not measure 'flat' but I voice to the sound I want and like. But I realise, sometimes it cannot be ideal and not everybody has a chance to renovate a house and implementing some acoustic trickery and smuggle in large horns with 18 in alnico woofers. I just keep wondering why you have so much trust in the digital gear as my experience is so the opposite. cheers.
Paul skimmed over the fact the writer's only putting the EQ in his tape loop. Tapes NEED EQ-ing, and it's not gonna affect the rest of his system. I no longer own tapes therefore no EQ.
I assume then that you have a bias against tone controls including bass boost. I use a Technics seven band per channel equalizer to increase bass response and reduce an annoying 10K peak. The results were well worth the bother of having to hook it up.
The holy grail of component equalizers. The Kenwood GE-7030 Parametric. Nobody ever says you "need" an EQ. Then again like the Bible or a gun. You may never need one. But boy. If you ever do! Further. The "Purist" or "Audiophile" I find are buried in the specifications of their audio equipment so much that listening to it is more of a science than enjoyment. You can love steak. And choose the best steakhouse in the whole city. With the best chef. If liver was cooked on the grill right before yours landed on it. An "audiophile" would accept that that terrible taste was the way it was intended on being cooked. Because his chef was flawless. And eat that steak with not a complaint One!. Heaven forbid he request a bit of A1 or 57 sauce. To wash down the nasty taste of his perfectly crafted dinner. There you have it. At mixdown. Equipment aside. "Studio Monitor Reference Standard". Whose Reference and what Standard? There is no way you'll ever get me to buy a $15,000 speaker much less two of them. Maybe the mixdown engineer has a cold. Or Mick and The Stones gave him a few snorts of toot. Maybe it took 2 weeks for the lead to straighten up and the production schedule was far behind. A LOT of factors involved in a "Perfect" recording that is.....well, perfect! Maybe it really isn't up to snuff to the engineers approval. Or the person responsible for giving the go-ahead. But given the seal of mediocre approval before the tape is sent out to be cut. And cow patties of polyvinyl chloride turn into $$$. Unless you're Neil Young and the pressing is so stinkin' bad you pull the whole lot and shingle your barn. The "purist" as you've put it. Would slap that record on and play-away! No bass or treble needed. Heck "MY equipment doesn't NEED bass and treble controls......It's PER-FECT!! "Audiophile" my butt. Guys with Tomb Raider style turntables and cartridges with exotic materials. They're only records. They're only tapes. They're only optical discs. The Library of Congress.....AND Sony grabbed the last remaining Shure V15 VxMR cartridges. Sony is a dedicated company. Much as Klipsch is dedicated. I own one with a JICO stylus assembly. It's as best as it can get. How the groove sounds. Not someone's Shuziki Toyoyama or Schpitzel Programmatek rendition of what they think YOU should hear. You got me fired up! Haha. If every matched audio system that is engineered to a "standard". Every Analog device was engineered to a standard. And I will never spell it like "they do".....ana-lo-gu-way. It's "Analog". There is no National Bureau of Audio. That matched component set would come with an engineering set of blueprints for the room it has been engineered for. No carpet, oak floors. Berber carpeting with XX density padding X millimeters thick. Drywall with Venutian plaster. Only acoustic tile manufactured by X. Glass surrounding 2 sides and 9' high, 1/2" thick tempered. "Darryl's House". Sca-rew that. Equalizer. And call it a day. In moderation, of course. Nobody likes the "I-Need_Rogaine" V pattern!
Graphic Equalizers by DBX aren't bad at all and if one is into listening to Classic Rock an EQ can make a hudge difference. Without an Equalizer Classic Rock sound "Flat and Lifeless"
Does it not make more sense to employ speakers that load the room correctly. Rather than employ EQ or DSP to compensate for the inadequacies of the speakers?
Digital EQ's all the way! I love tweaking the music, after all it's for MY LISTENING PLEASURE.
Couldn't have said it any better
I love EQ !! It brings out the music I love!!!!
I listened to Digital Equalizers before in two Yamaha AV Receivers and my experience with them for Classic Rock Music was awful. Well maybe that's just Yamaha. However using a Anolog 31 Band Graphic Equalizer by DBX with a Rotel Pre Amp and Power amp was a completely a different experience. It sounded wonderful.
For those who have dedicated analog paths (reel to reel and lp), digital EQ is a big NO.
The only person that needs to enjoy the sound of your system... is you
EQ's are a must as far as I'm concerned . Audio recordings come with so many imperfections (such as compression) and then there's different studio engineers deciding how it should sound based on that studio , on and on it goes. An equalizer is so important for tailoring the sound for you the listener and the room in which you'll listen. Like I said "A MUST"
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The bottom line is that if the equalizer makes your system sound better to YOU, then that's all that matters.
If I didn't have my 6 band Schiit Lokius tone control I wouldn't bother listening. Recorded music is ALL OVER the place no matter what you're playing. Flat is Not always where it's at.
I just modify gear to make it sound to my taste.But the recordings might not be the biggest problem to you, perhaps the voicing of the devices it not to your taste.
I'm with you there. The room also plays a huge part and there is no such thing as a perfect room. Sometimes EQ is not needed depending on the recording and such, but EQ is needed often. I have a vintage Sansui 8080db that has three way (or is it four?) tone controls, that I do have to use from time to time. I also have a vintage Marantz 2238 that has three way tone controls, but I rarely have to touch them. My "high-end" system has two tone controls on the preamp. I leave them defeated mostly. I have that system set up and 100% dialed in and find that the tone controls or indeed an EQ is not needed. However, most of the headphones I have and have tried I could not use without EQ and tone controls don't cut it. I'm not a big headphone listener at all, I avoid it when ever I can. I do use headphones for my work in the hobby though. I use studio monitor headphones that are real close to being near perfectly flat. I personally like the sound of them and could see myself using them for listening, if they were more comfortable. I know flat doesn't appeal to most folks and that is understandable. The speakers hooked to my PC are also studio monitors that are flat. They are great for digitizing analog, but not all that for just listening. I don't use my PC as a source just as I don't use a phone as a source....yuck! I have nothing against streaming and the like, but for me I far prefer vinyl records and CDs for serious listening. I reserve streaming for background and research.
I'am getting older😢 I need glasses for reading and eqalizer for listning. That is the true and sad fact of life😊
Lucky you ! I can't hear anything above 6.5kHz, so no EQ in the world could compensate for that. ☹
Equalizer all the way !!
I think if we all had perfect rooms designed with music in mind, then going without a graphic would be just fine. But in the real world, there are often imperfections that can't be overcome unless we have very deep pockets, and a graphic can help tremendously. I have a pretty decent system that produces a very wide and deep soundstage, but I have an awkwardly shaped room that even after room treatment, has a very pronounced bump at 80hz which is very annoying. I got a dbx analogue graphic, and it solved the problem of attenuating that frequency and things now sound excellent. The soundstage/depth hasn't changed at all, I noticed it introduced a very small amount of hiss, but that is hardly noticeable unless I get right up to the tweeter. So for me, the benefits gained were worth it.
Happy Birthday Mr. Paul !!! I have set FabFilter Pro-Q 3 in Audirvana and wouldn't want to live without it. Just a little tweak to handle a room-mode at 98Hz helps incredibly at slightly higher volumes. At lower volumes the filter stays off. When listening analog I don't use an EQ, since it would have to be an analog filter, which is not a good idea, as you stated correctly. So then I switch to my little speakers. ;-) Best wishes to you, stay healthy and keep on rockin' ! 👍
Thanks Paul for all your videos! One thing I noticed in this one: there's deep bass rumbling throughout the video, kinda sounds like a truck outside our building with our 15" REL 😂
There are so many recordings out there that benefit from some tweaking, especially overcompressed DR recordings (almost everything new). In my opinion this far overrides any audiophile purist fears of 'something else in the signal path'. Audiophiles are strange creatures. They grasp on theoretical issues like dogma to the detriment of real life listening pleasure. But, whatever floats your boat, right?
👏🏼👏🏼👍 very well said I would’ve added if your stereo is not so high end sometimes you don’t really hear the difference and in that case an equalizer would definitely make it more fun because you’re not hearing any minute details to begin with
I've always included some type of EQ in all my systems. That's how I roll...
I've got a little Schitt Loki tone control in my all analogue chain, very simple 3 band equaliser, and it's superb, I don't notice any introduction of noise. But actually, since I've upgraded my amp, I've not found the need to have it in the circuit as the presentation of the amp has filled out the sound. But I still have it and won't get rid of it, it's an amazing piece of kit for the price.
Digital EQ might not be possible. Your ears will decide if an analog EQ improves the sound or not.
If it improves some music but not all, there's always the bypass button.
Years ago, I had a 12 band ADC equalizer in my system, which consisted of a Yamaha receiver, B&O turntable, and Infinity speakers. Even at that level, I could tell when the equalizer was switched in. One time, I was actually able to zero in on a problem with one song. I was proud of myself, until I realized that the improvement was minor, and didn’t change the overall level of reproduction. From then on, the equalizer was kept off.
My Mcintosh amp has an 8 band equalizer which admittedly I auditioned switched out and not intending to use it. And with good recordings it isn't required. However, a lot of CD's I buy suffer from 'loudness wars' issues (rock/metal in particular) and I've found some curtailing of the bass and enhancement in upper mids and lower treble make those recording much more listenable and hence enjoyable. My previous Naim amps followed the 'purist' path of nothing in the signal path and made far too many recordings unpleasant for repeated listening. Is the McIntosh as transparent as purist amps...perhaps not. Is it more enjoyable...from my experience, yes.
I went through my graphic equalizer phase in the 1980’s with a 10 band soundshaper. It took a while to realize I was ruining the sound with that, then I went through the receiver period with bass, treble controls. Now I have an integrated amp with no tone controls to worry about. Completely agree with Paul, No crap in the signal path for me. But to each his own.
I use a BBE 462 sonic maximizer between the preamp and power amp. Brings new life to my system.
I agree with Paul. I use my equalizer on my McIntosh very rarely just to add some treble on older recordings. However, just as he said, it does crunch the imaging. To solve that, I just avoid bad recordings. There’s so much good quality music out there waiting to be discovered.
As I get older I have times my ears play up, particularly the left one, whilst going through ear drops ready for a clean out I can use the DSP filters on my Roon core and also balance it out better for listening. Always fun when my ear gets better again to hear the way it was setup with bad hearing. Straight back off again
If you use EQ's (like I do..). It helps to have a "constant-Q" EQ made with high quality op-amps.
You also need to have the option of switching it out and a "test record" (or test CD) to establish a "room curve".
A used Rane DEQ 60 or 60L is a good place to start.
Paul you are correct. Vintage EQs are not very good. But modern ones work fine. And the one built into my Macintosh is fantastic. The tone controls in my Luxman are also perfectly fine. I have a Schiit Loki in one of my systems and it doesn’t degrade anything. In another system I have a ADI-2 DAC with a built in digital EQ and yes doing it in the digital domain works really well. Funny that equipment manufacturers add their own sound signature to their products then object to the customer wanting to add their own sound. Many say you want to keep the recording as intended. Intended by the musicians or the equipment manufacturers?
I have a very revealing system. Audio Research Ref 750s mono amps. Ref 6 SE pre. Ref 9 CDP. B&W Matrix 800 speakers. Audio quest Dragons HC and source PCs. Audio quest Thunder bird XLR ICs. Straight wire Crescendo Tri wired speaker cables. I added a Mclntosh MQ 112 equalizer to my system and it is phenomenal. Does not take away nothing but adds so much more. Just what the doctor ordered.
Happy Birthday to you Paul Sir...❤🌺🌺
During my initial years, I used to enjoy using equalizer and bump up the Bass and Treble.
Nowadays, I enjoy the purist music in a revealing system, without equalizer, and as the artist & studio recorded the music.
Finally, one has to enjoy the music during all phases of our musical journey.
Cheers❤
I could not listen to music without EQ. People who go on against their use are not Audiophiles, simply Audiofools. I can understand if you have a pure analogue system, but most systems are digital these days with such easy access to lossless, high resolution services.
Regardless of the discussion about the merits and draw backs of analog graphic equalizers, it seems Paul made more of an argument against operational amplifiers. That is a completely different discussion.
Happy birthday and a long and beautiful life!
i once had older equipment that benefit from an EQ... but then i upgraded to substancial gear i ditched the EQ and it was better then ever! I never looked back... keep the signal chain pure. EQs are to compensate for medeocre equipment and poorly setup rooms
Happy Birthday Paul! I love me a digital EQ and wish more devices or apps supported it. Of course I love to tinker and am also not an audiophile by any means, but I love playing around with my sound while I am relatively new to the world of high end audio.
Happy Birthday, Paul!!!
Birthday Greetings Paulo. You don't look a day over 50; all that musical purity has kept you young.
Thanks!
digital domain graphic equalizers utilised digital signal processors as a multi frequency audio slots digital filters .
Happy Birthday Paul! 🎂
Happy birthday Paul!
For some weeks now, I use the McIntosh MQ 112 between my pre- and poweramps. It is brilliant. Fine-tuned and adapted my system to my listening room, compensating for bad recording qualities: I will no longer listen without a proper equalization, no matter if it‘s flat not. My ears decide!
This is the FIRST time I've realized that most people aren't paying attention to the Soundstage, Imagining and all the nuances present in a well-built system in a well-tuned room. I think most of us "hacks" just slap together a bunch of great components without enough attention to the room, placement, source material, sitting position, etc. I have a bunch of beautiful components but haven't really "Curated" a system to get the most out of it.
Digital EQ *can* be great, with good software and a lot of experience, but it takes a while to learn what you're doing.
Analogue EQ is something you'd better do your research and pay for the quality, if you're determined to go that route, because it WILL have effects beyond just the frequency balance, as Paul said, but it can be done well with minimal "damage", and sometimes a necessity for that equipment in that space.
I've got a music background, so I'm hoping to do an EQ/frequency tutorial at some point that could really help a lot of people understand frequency and how to know exactly a very small range to go straight for when you hear a problem or want to play a known tune and find a note.
Digital EQs also do phase shiftings - not much different from analog EQs.
good point. that is true.
High end equipment VERY RARELY has tone control adjustment. It looks like an inordinate number of people on this high end forum do not have high end equipment. Not just this forum/channel either. It is said that a relatively small amount of people in places like this, actually have high end sound quality or high end equipment. I once had a great moving coill cartridge whose high end had a slight rise. But the highs were so clean and smooth that I didn't mind it. It just sounded like there was more treble. A less clean cartridge with a rising high end, would have made many unpleasant sounds up there.
Digital all the way. I suppose my miniDSP for the main system is a kinda an equalizer but its so much more. A really powerful tool if you like to tinker.
If your speakers cant be positioned in the correct place, like a car, or a home, an equalizer helps. If your speakers are positioned correctly, then throw the equalizer away, except if you like listening at low volume, an equalizer can give you more better bass.
Then, back in the day, there was the press release announcement of DBX's new self calibrating EQ. It came with a calibrated mic. I forget whether it generated a sweep tone of white noise? But then did a 20Hz-20Khz sweep and set the levels for each band. At the back of the room as a Rep, I asked that if the speaker was doubling from say a 60hz signal the distortion would be extra energy at 120Hz. The unit would detect 60Hz being low and boost it. Causing more distortion at 120Hz. It would then lower the 120Hz because of the 60hz signal distortion energy.
I was escorted out.
I have a Technics Receiver that has a 7 band Graphic Equalizer built in to the receiver and the sound is phenomenal. This receiver is about 35 years old and going storng. Works perfect. In my opinion A graphic Equalizer is a must have. For these reasons, Sometimes you buy a CD or a Vinyl Record which does not sound as good as the other CD's and records in your collection. You can tweak the sound so that it is better. If you don't have a equilizer you cannot of course do this, You just have to live with the CD or record that has crummy sound, when all of the other recordings in your collection sound fantastic
I'm lucky enough to have a preamp with seperate tape loops and processor loop. The EQ is there if I'd like to use it, or its not if that's what I would prefer. As I get older I find myself using it more and more.
but to denigrate someone simply because they choose to use a piece of equipment in their hobby, just doesn't seem necessary to me.
Good discussion, and while I certainly subscribe to the pursuit system setup, I think the most important metric is enjoyment of the music, which IMO is 100% subjective. If OP finds that using a graphic EQ enhances his music listening experience, it's all good (there's no right or wrong)... you can try tweaking and changing based on recommendations to see if it improves your experience, but once you truly love the music your system provides then I feel that's what matters most. Focusing on the hardware is definitely a fun part of the hobby, but ultimately I think music enjoyment is the audiophile ethos we're trying to achieve!
I have two beautiful JBL4312B's. I really like that R'N'R look, it reminds me of guitar amps. But their sound is pretty flat since they are control monitors so i fixed that very successfully using vintage JVC eq. Tested it without changing curve and gotta say - losses are minimal to none, i'm much more happier with what i got. They sound perfect. Ofcourse - doing all of that just to keep them because or their looks exclude me from any serious discussion but that's how i roll 😅. Good trade-off for me especially because some recordings are just bad and they need intervention.
Many forget that, "Frequency Response", is a Complex Variable. The Amplitude response is the Real component and the Phase response is the Imaginary component of said Complex Variable. If one reads the works of Dr. Richard Heyser in the JAES concerning the utilization of the Hilbert Transform, IF the loudspeaker system's Phase and Amplitude responses are Hilbert Transforms of each other, graphically, via visual inspection, mirror images of each other, then the system is a minimum phase network. By employing equalization of the Amplitude response, Phase response may be degraded/altered, and the audiophile, "Magic", may be lost. He explains how, if memory serves, a very inexpensive, piezoelectric(?) tweeter may be equalized in the Amplitude domain, to match an electrostatic transducer, in only the Amplitude domain, again, if memory serves, the two will reproduce perceptually vastly different events.
I'm a lover of music.I don't and never will be an "audiophile ".
Happy cake day! Eq is an easy fix to a poor crossover or corruption from the sorce, I would rather spend the time and fix any issues.
Spot on. I use Camilladsp in the digital domain to correct frequency peaks at the listening chair. It is integrated into moOde, the player software and works like a charm.
I use an EQ and dont lose anything because I don’t use digital only analog.
I know a fella with a very specific type of hearing loss, his sensitivity to any frequency above about 10K is severely limited. He uses an equalizer to really boost those higher frequencies so that HE can still hear and enjoy his music. It is almost impossible for me to listen to it set that way, but it is his system and his enjoyment in his home so who am I to judge.
well stated!
Above 10 K there isn't a whole lot of information. Is there any? Yes, but it shouldn't be enough to drive you out of the room.
Digital domain? What are my purchase options in the digital domain?
All equalizers have a "Bypass Button" that doesn't effect the sound quality when listening to "Audiophile Music"
It's 2024 DSP, join it
Short story of a graphic equalizer I added to my system about 30 years ago ...
I also loved the effect in the beginning ... then I noticed, that my EQ would add
some humming noise to the audio, whenever the graphical spectrum display
(build with an 8x8 Led-array) was switched on. But even when switched off
it added something sounding like coming from a white-noise generator
(but only very faint) ... so after a while of playing with it (because in the end,
that's what it was), I got rid of it, and enjoyed the stereo-signal just as it came
out of the speakers.
Same here.👍
Congratulations Paul! But if we want to avoid opamps as much as possible, why do we use balanced outputs, adding opamps througout (if fully balanced).
It isn't EQ or not, it's simply an issue of transparent or not.
Parametric EQ in the digital domain, thats the way to go.
Competent DAC's are not in need of any equalization. Less is more when it comes to the audio signal. The easiest way I have found to play with equalization is to computer source your system, install Foobar2000 (Free bit perfect playback) with the SACD and one other addon to be able to playback DSD files (found at Octave Records) and to use the built in digital EQ. That solves any hit you would take in sound quality using an analog EQ. Audiophiles also do not use receivers or tone controls of any kind. When the electronics are right their is nothing to fix with an EQ. imho.
EQ is a must for mediocre gear!
Yes Paul. Produce a digital audio processor! I'm shure it wuold be great!
Recordings needing equalized; we're talking about tteble mostly, aren't we? If your system is ultra clean, the thing that might work best is to have a tonal balance where the highs are slightly on the bright side. To compensate for dull recordings. It's a real balancing act. With a slightly uplifted treble on a system that is NOT ultra clean, you are going to hear hardness and harshness often. But if your system is ultra clean sounding, a little more treble will just sound like there is a little more treble. Crisper but a still smooth sound. Lessening distortion is the best thing one can do for their system. Too much treble will mess with the harmonic overtone structure however.
I've spent an absurd amount of time over the years tuning my system and room to get the sound I want without EQ. And I'm thrilled with the results. But, as the OP stated, there are variables between media which need to be tweeked to our personal taste. But this can be greatly minimized, across the board, with proper design and setup before you ever need to EQ adjust. This also goes for any other kind of processing as well. I've used dynamic range enhancers, sonic holography, compressors, aural exciters etc, over the years and still have some instances where I like to do some modification to the signal. But as Paul said, there are systems that get negatively impacted by the added circuitry with their inherent phase anomalies and distortions to the stage and detail. So like so many things, use processors judiciously and minimally for the finest results. Oh and let's not forget the DSP craze. Do your absolute best to get your system mechanically aligned and setup for your room BEFORE using DSP to iron out the final little wrinkles. Happy Birthday Paul.
I found that modifying my system and getting it right made even the Roon DSP options having such degrading 'side' effects to the sound, that always the desired modification is figured out and implemented in the analog domain. Either way, digital or analogue, it seems always something can be improved. But soldering is fun.
whats with the sub bass in this video?
I listen to a lot of different music, I cannot be bothered constantly changing settings.
How to tell if equalizer is in digital domain? I have Technics SH-8066 - is it digital or analog? There’s no knobs - it has touch sensitive controls - so no hum or hiss from potentiometers that I’m able to hear. Even no noticeable change in sound quality from my vinyl…
Ie just what about the eq that comes with youtube music?
I just deleted my last comment.
Paul, you’re absolutely right.
I placed a Schitt Loki in my audio system so I can use my iPhone as my source. Since then, I’ve replaced my phone for my Mac Mini.
I also listened to the advice by Mr Kanta from Thomas & Stereo. He said that his music sounds less transmissive with the Loki.
So, when I woke up, I replaced my Loki by using the EQ (digitally sourced) on my Apple Music.
Yes, I noticed distortion disappear and imagery sharpened. Plus, I was able to customize my sound better because I now have 10 channels vs 4 channels that my Loki has.
I guess this means more equipment to give to my nephews and/or nieces.
Paul, have you ever tried a high quality Schumann Resonance Generator?
The vast majority of people don't have equipment, and an even much higher percentage don't have a room to take advantage of flat sound. It sounds terrible on mine. Whether it's to much bass, that's very common thanks late 90s CDs, muted vocals or tinny treble. Listening to different types of music, Foo Fighters and Don Williams and Tchaikovsky and Mamamoo all hit different. It took a long time to get a somewhat balanced sound because of an equalizer.
So if I'm wright in analog system
Dolby Atmos is out of the question ?
For a long time I thought equalizers were fairly harmless. They are not.
Even a decent one causes phase response problems.
With a great setup and equipment, you shouldn't need EQ most of the time. Of course, in the hands of the public they've been used to make a bad system worse many times. We even have preset EQ now, multiple choices to make it sound even worse. I have an odd room and bargain equipment, just stuck in an old graphic and definitely helps, in tiny increments. Wouldn't have held out this long without the amp controls.
digital filters , make use of digital signal processors embedded systems and by utilising , fast fourrier transforms programming techniques , making used of infinite or finite impulse response digital filter algorithms , working in the z transformations domain , and thus realizings a set of audio digital filters , from low to high frequency audio signals .
A test. Hear what happens. Connect your left and right eq in series. From one eq adjust the first fader up, the second down, the third up etc.
From the other eq you do just the opposit. I bet it sounds horrible.
I know there’s a Scottish influence (is it bad luck to mention their name?) who put a Space Optimisation function in their DSMs which can have the room attributes entered in so that any deficiencies can be ironed out. This functionality is optional (even though that isn’t made clear on their website). I believe there also some loudspeaker profiles also setup to also aid with differences between manufacturers and models.
graphic equalisers are great, for fleshing out your HiFi stack, now whether to actually switch it in line......,
Pls. let us know how you can do eq in the digital domain when playing DSD which you're advocating for... lol
Would not use digital as well, the reconstruction filters produce errors in the time domain and will create a loss in signal quality.
I wish this guy would stop "living" in the '70s!! Things have changed a lot over the decades. Tone controls and EQ don't pollute the sound like they once did.
As a Hi-Fi enthusiast of 45 years experience, I've NEVER owned a Graphic Equaliser.
I've always believed they're unnecessary for a good system, and an unnecessary extra link in the system chain!
I'm surprised to see several polar opposite comments to mine. Perhaps things have changed since I first got into Hi-Fi?
Oh well, each to his / her own?
In 40 years of Hi-Fi, I've never been tempted by equalizers, simply because I was aware that I risked degrading the music even more... because I'm zero when it comes to setting frequency bands
😅😅
The BASS and TREBLE knobs are basically doing what Paul is saying so why not add a larger adjustable Graphic Equalizer? I never use the 'DIRECT' button on my amp.
If I had the $$$$ I'd go with a Digital EQ but with as much Tinnitus that i have I would not hear the differences so why not boost it to my liking's and if you don't like it, don't let the door bruise your back side on the way out.
If the music ( the software that runs the system) was better recorded and mastered..they’d be less need to “fix it” ..but some times there may be no choice…
I believe part of the reason "audiophiles" don't like graphic EQs is because they don't understand or know how to use them. I used graphic EQs for years (and learned how to use them of course). That said, back in the day most graphic EQs on the market though were awful, poorly built. Often times they would introduce unwanted harmonics and noise one could easily detect with one's ears. Good EQs should be unnoticeable to the ear in terms of anything being introduced. Sadly, one is hard pressed today to find a good EQ for a system. (There are good EQs for use in headphone situations available though). I might add that the old gear with built-in EQs or tone controls were never a problem.
Today, we have digital EQ, which virtually eliminates all the worries about introduction of unwanted harmonics and noise. The problem is that with digital EQs is that they are difficult to fine tune. The other problem is that there are no digital EQs that I know of that work with analog gear or analog media. I'd love to see a graphic digital EQ as a component for systems (at a earth-based price of course).
All records and even CDs are not created equal, rooms certainly aren't and if one rents, one is severely restricted in acoustical treatments and the like. This is what EQs massively help with. I also personally find EQs mandatory with headphone listening. I'm waiting for someone to come out with a headphone or device that doesn't require one to be chained to a PC that can fix the complete lack of staging with headphones. I can't stand the feeling of my eyes being squeezed together with the extremely narrow or lack of staging of headphones. That is why I am a speakers guy (tower speakers to be precise).
Just two cents worth of ramble.
As audiophile and purist, I don’t want tubes in the signal path. I absolutely also don’t want an analog EQ. But most certainly I want an audiophile DSP based EQ and agree with Paul. But now I’m using products from other brands and keep praying for Paul to make the best ever audiophile one. And of course the PS audio DSP box needs to have ability to also do active cross-over with two 3-way speakers and 2 subwoofers. That means I need 8 outputs. I currently use a miniDSP Flex that can do this, but I want something more audiophile.
have you considered voicing the devices yourself or with help of an audio tech? Even very small and simpel changes can make the sound more to your taste. I don't like even digital EQ in Roon, all my previous experience led to deciding to leave all that alone. And I must agree that it is really hard keeping tubes in the signal path, I switched my AudioNote DAC with tube output stage for another much better DAC with opamps in the output. I love the better AN Dacs but it's so much cleaner.
@@edmaster3147 I don’t like tube distortion thus I don’t like tubes. The worst EQ is the RIAA filter for vinyl playback and that’s one good reason I left behind vinyl. Vinyl also has serious noise, wow&flutter, compression and distortion issues. Digital EQ can be really awesome with no side effects. There is no voicing gear other than speakers and room acoustics. I don’t want to use gear that significantly impacts tonal balance other than speakers. But even the best of speakers can be tweaked with modern DSP EQ.
@@ThinkingBetter Did you know that the sound of lets say an output stage will change with changing components? This has a greater effect than EQ in fact. If an opamp has cerarmic caps on its + and - power inputs, it will sound different than film caps; more important, the high frequencies can to a certain point being fed, but will never start to sound right if the device is voiced 'dark'. There is more to it all then sliding a bit around in a DSP and EQ.
@@edmaster3147 Hey, I should tell you that I’ve worked professionally in audio R&D since the early 90s, including high-end gear, and of course I understand how the signal integrity through electronics can be impacted by various engineering design decisions including circuit type, component choices, thermal drift and so on. Yes of course electronics can sound different but any well designed electronics analog audio circuitry can be near flat from 20Hz to 20kHz. In no way can you pick audiophile grade electronics that brings in place a proper frequency response compensation for any room issue, speaker performance issue or hearing issue. Usually in a worst-case audio circuits are dropping a bit in the higher treble but that’s actually opposite to what you want from an EQ compensation. I usually like +5dB at 12kHz (I call that rejuvenation EQ) and +3dB at 30Hz from a total linear response. None of that can be achieved by equipment choice.
@@ThinkingBetter ahah yes linearity issues are fun.I use EQ for getting an idea of what I want and then implementing it. It might not measure 'flat' but I voice to the sound I want and like. But I realise, sometimes it cannot be ideal and not everybody has a chance to renovate a house and implementing some acoustic trickery and smuggle in large horns with 18 in alnico woofers. I just keep wondering why you have so much trust in the digital gear as my experience is so the opposite. cheers.
I use the equaliser function on the WiiM pro to great effect. A very welcome feature to help my room issues
Some people won’t use an eq but listen to music with a tube amp with 10 % or more harmonic distortion and call that accurate sound.
Paul skimmed over the fact the writer's only putting the EQ in his tape loop. Tapes NEED EQ-ing, and it's not gonna affect the rest of his system. I no longer own tapes therefore no EQ.
I think tape loop means the tape in/out. Those can be used for all sorts of things.
Correct. A tape lope is an out and back in connection
I assume then that you have a bias against tone controls including bass boost. I use a Technics seven band per channel equalizer to increase bass response and reduce an annoying 10K peak. The results were well worth the bother of having to hook it up.
FIRST! EQ's look cool though so you can always put them in your system and not wire them.
I wonder who was first to post a comment here without having to edit his comment.
@@hugobloemers4425 I was. There was so much time I added more stuff than "first!". Paul
Bring back the Soundcraftsman equalizers!!
I have one that I would not do without! Great choice, my friend(also have a sound craftsman amplifier that I dearly love!)
The holy grail of component equalizers. The Kenwood GE-7030 Parametric. Nobody ever says you "need" an EQ.
Then again like the Bible or a gun. You may never need one. But boy. If you ever do!
Further. The "Purist" or "Audiophile" I find are buried in the specifications of their audio equipment so much that listening to it is more of a science than enjoyment.
You can love steak. And choose the best steakhouse in the whole city. With the best chef. If liver was cooked on the grill right before yours landed on it.
An "audiophile" would accept that that terrible taste was the way it was intended on being cooked.
Because his chef was flawless. And eat that steak with not a complaint One!.
Heaven forbid he request a bit of A1 or 57 sauce. To wash down the nasty taste of his perfectly crafted dinner.
There you have it. At mixdown. Equipment aside. "Studio Monitor Reference Standard".
Whose Reference and what Standard? There is no way you'll ever get me to buy a $15,000 speaker much less two of them.
Maybe the mixdown engineer has a cold. Or Mick and The Stones gave him a few snorts of toot.
Maybe it took 2 weeks for the lead to straighten up and the production schedule was far behind.
A LOT of factors involved in a "Perfect" recording that is.....well, perfect!
Maybe it really isn't up to snuff to the engineers approval. Or the person responsible for giving the go-ahead.
But given the seal of mediocre approval before the tape is sent out to be cut. And cow patties of polyvinyl chloride turn into $$$.
Unless you're Neil Young and the pressing is so stinkin' bad you pull the whole lot and shingle your barn.
The "purist" as you've put it. Would slap that record on and play-away! No bass or treble needed. Heck "MY equipment doesn't NEED bass and treble controls......It's PER-FECT!!
"Audiophile" my butt. Guys with Tomb Raider style turntables and cartridges with exotic materials. They're only records. They're only tapes. They're only optical discs.
The Library of Congress.....AND Sony grabbed the last remaining Shure V15 VxMR cartridges. Sony is a dedicated company.
Much as Klipsch is dedicated. I own one with a JICO stylus assembly. It's as best as it can get.
How the groove sounds. Not someone's Shuziki Toyoyama or Schpitzel Programmatek rendition of what they think YOU should hear.
You got me fired up! Haha.
If every matched audio system that is engineered to a "standard". Every Analog device was engineered to a standard. And I will never spell it like "they do".....ana-lo-gu-way. It's "Analog". There is no National Bureau of Audio.
That matched component set would come with an engineering set of blueprints for the room it has been engineered for.
No carpet, oak floors. Berber carpeting with XX density padding X millimeters thick. Drywall with Venutian plaster. Only acoustic tile manufactured by X. Glass surrounding 2 sides and 9' high, 1/2" thick tempered.
"Darryl's House".
Sca-rew that. Equalizer. And call it a day. In moderation, of course.
Nobody likes the "I-Need_Rogaine" V pattern!
Graphic Equalizers by DBX aren't bad at all and if one is into listening to Classic Rock an EQ can make a hudge difference. Without an Equalizer Classic Rock sound "Flat and Lifeless"
Does it not make more sense to employ speakers that load the room correctly. Rather than employ EQ or DSP to compensate for the inadequacies of the speakers?
Happy birthday Paul! Let the Audio Power guide you!
For the live world eqs are for tuning your system to the room and nothing else
I've never heard of a "Digital EQ" & I'm pretty sure my ear's don't want too either.
Then educate yourself.
Using convolution filters in Roon to compensate for living room. It really works magic.
Graphics are about removing what u don't want not adding,,,