Molto chiaro. E tuo spiegazione si può parallele con l’architettura in fondo, in cui si vede concetti di costruzione sviluppati per una logica pratica. Disegno tende di semplificare secondo l’uso, e il creazione sodisfa l’occhio. L’immaginazione creatrice fa suonare gli campanelle.
I have studied Latin for two years in school, medical terminology after that, and two short classes on Latin for fun, and NOW, with this video, I finally understood the stress rules! 😍 Only reading about the rules in a book or having a teacher repeat it is too abstract for me, I really needed these examples and explanations. Thank you!
I really love you’re doing these kind of videos in these particular places. It feels like a documentary. I know you could easily explain this topic at the commodity of your house or whatever location, but you doing it here makes me feel like I am there with you, listening to the things you say. Like a tourist and a tour guide.
That’s one of my favorite things. The on location shoots really add to the content. Though I will admit to getting distracted by the amazing surroundings once in awhile, lol.
I agree with you but let me point something out. "Commodity" is a false friend! The English speakers use that word to mean "product." Weird, I know! The word you need is "comfort."
Very interesting! The illīc example's stress sounds sort of what's happened to many French words where the last syllable is stressed today, while earlier they had another syllable after that which is now silent
In some words the stress shifted to what is now the last syllable, such as "libellule". The stress in Latin is on the first 'e', and is still there in Spanish "libélula", but in French it's on the 'u'.
And in Spanish, words with ultimate stress mostly exists because they have also lost the last syllable. The final /e/ was lost in words that ended in for example, so cīviTĀtem becomes ciuDAD. And in verbs, the endings often collapsed, so fābuLĀvit became fabLAUT and then habló, contrasting with hablo in Spanish.
All words in French now have their stress on the last syllable; the ones which didn't after the loss of the final Latin syllable just shifted their accent to the last syllable. Although I have heard there is now a tendency in France to shift the stress onto the penultimate syllable, but I don't know the details. I'm not sure if it's in all words or just disyllabic words, for example.
@@Mercure250 If you listen to some spoken French you will hear the accent move around within words when they're part of a sentence, often it at least sounds like it's on the penultimate. How the French perceive it themselves I don't know. An example for comparison: many Swedish two-syllable words might sound to a foreigner like they are accented on the last syllable, while for a Swede they're obviously accented on the first syllable...
@@HenrikBergpianorganist A French speaker just doesn't hear it consciously. It doesn't make a real difference for us, so we don't really pay attention to it. But it is generally described that French words have their accent on the last syllable. That being said, I did hear about a recent tendency to put the accent on the penultimate for some speakers, but I don't know the details of it. In any case, it is completely subconscious and French people won't notice anything until someone points it out to them.
@@polyMATHY_Luke dimentico sempre che potrei parlare in italiano... hai ragione, diciamo che non sempre basta l'intuito! Complimenti per la tua opera di divulgazione!
Italian here! I have to be honest, I am finally appreciating Latin and I'm actively studying it via Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. Thanks, Luke. You made me realize how cool Latin is and how back in liceo I was good at it, but my approach to it was quite toxic due to the whole, get grades, question later minset. Ugh, those days. PS: I'm feeling quite privileged right now cause the whole accent system is quite 1:1 between Italian and Latin haha, it's still cool to spot a few differences.
Your videos are part of the impetus for my decision at 48 to quit my dead-end job of 20 years (that I never loved) to go back to school for Romance Languages, something I'm passionate about. I'm moving to Rome, Italy this Summer and start grad school in October. I'm not worried because, as far as I'm concerned, for the first time in my life, I've chosen to live. Gratias tibi 🙏
I'm not a Latin scholar--just 4 years of classes, long ago. Using the stress rules, as you pointed them out, really does make the word roots stand out verbally. And when I recite from the Aeneidas, using the stress accents and verbally prolonging the long vowels, even when they're not stressed, and trilling the "r"s as you explained elsewhere, it really does sound very poetic! Thanks for the videos!!
Thank you for covering this subject Luke! In the past couple months I’ve found that stress rules are actually very important for correct translation as well as pronunciation.
I absolutely love this channel and the content. It always makes my day better, and then Luke's reaction to the cat at the end somehow made it even more so.
Nice video! I can finally read words with enclitics (-que, -ne,...) correctly. Many textbooks just talk about the penultimate rule itself and ignore this important exception.
It is amazing how stable that accent has been. Modern Romance languages don't have this neat pattern anymore, due to losing vowel length and generally losing sounds, but the accent has by and large stayed in the same place for any given word
I love your content. I’ m going to study classic philolgy at university and your videos have encouraged me to become a fluent latin and ancient greek speaker.Un saludo desde Valencia, España.
I feel like you could teach me the most complicated thing ever, and I'd understand it immediately. (Not saying the penultimate stress rule is complicated, but your explanation is on point.)
Thanks Luke! I just started on LLPSI and I'm immeasurably engaged. I started reading aloud so I would know the words' sound, and now with some practice, I will do it with competence.
It's really similar to how stress works in portuguese! (Except portuguese has a few words with the last syllable stressed, but the great majority of the language follows the rules you said). And I never wondered how stress works in portuguese. The more I learn latin, the more I learn my mother tongue
I found this very helpful and very easy to understand. I have watched the same tutorial from Latin tutorial, but I was a bit confused, but after watching your video, I have finally understood about 90%. Thank you for your effort, because of you that I have inloved with Latin.
Dude. dude. Two years ago? I'm just getting into Latin, the past year, and just picked up Lingua Latina Familia Romana on your commendation, and I hope to keep seeing your new videos. Probably gonna join your channel as member soon. Thanks for all your work. Edit: Joined.
PS. I just discovered a video I made went global viral so now I'm thinking about YT from a proper business venture perspective. And my stuff brushes up on the languages, especially Latin, Greek (Koine and Ancient), Hebrew, and possibly Arabic. So, it is part of my vision to chip in on those who have inspired me. For conversational stats purposes, the videos on the "no article in Latin, but there is a word *for* article in Latin", and your general vision for high quality pronunciation seen in the video about long and short vowel length, with statistical analysis, were two major items that pushed me to joining membership.
Thanks so much for becoming a Member! I appreciate the support very much. I’m also pleased to hear of the success of your own channel! Keep working with Familia Romana, and eventually you will attain reading fluency.
Excelente vídeo Luke! Tenía dudas en cuanto a la acentuación de las palabras polisilábicas con enclíticas. Acabo de encontrar, por ejemplo, en el cap. XLII de "Roma Aeterna" de Orberg, "caelestiaque arma", y no sabía cómo pronunciarla. Como siempre, una fuente de aprendizaje tus vídeos!! Gracias!!
Tibi grātiās agō quod materiales audiovisuales in linguā latinā facis. I’ve been trying to learn Latin for almost 20 years now (I was an adolescent when I started and mostly studied from books) and all the questions that I have been having ever since, have been answered by your videos. Salvē te ex Nicaraguā.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Gracias por responder a mi comentario. Sabía que hablas italiano y otros idiomas, pero no sabía que también hablas español. Forum habesne ubi latine scribere possumus tēcum aut cum altrōs?
A good general rule when you have consonant clusters is Maximize Onsets. That is, you put as many consonants in an onset (before the vowel (nucleus)) as you can, until you encounter al illegal onset for the language in question. Then all the other consonants go in codas.
Salve Luke, thank you for yet another helpful and easy to understand rule making life and Latin easier :) I started doing the 15 minutes morning Latin before work as per Ranieri-Dowling method but I could not do my Latin repetitions this morning. Watching this interesting video made my conscious clear for the day ;)
As usual, this is interesting, thank you! I don't know about dialectal variation in the history of Latin, but I wouldn't be surprised if in some dialects the short penultimate syllable changed to long syllable for gaining prominence to carry main stress, like: a-gi-tur > a-git-tur
I really appreciate the nuances you bring up about accentuation! Particularly with the interesting exceptions to what is otherwise a very regular stress accent rule, with words like illīc and līminaque.
Salut Luke! I just want to say that I really enjoyed your past couple of videos! Brilliant work man! It's interesting how much more insight into Romanian, learning about Latin gives me. All hail Luke! Long live language geeks! P. S. Really interesting how macellum in Italian and Romanian (macello/măcel) now mean butchering. Bet they cut a lot of animals in a macellum 😁
*Once* I have had my fill of learning Spanish, I intend to try to become (if such a grade exists) an A1 student of latin through being inspired by Luke. No, I will never be a professor or master but just to have a proper basic understanding of the route of the 2 laguages which I kind of do speak (French & Spanish) to go with my native English - as in where did (some of it) all come from and how it diverged over the ages into these and other Romance languages. Thanks Luke. You are a really good teacher because you make something which most find boring very interesting - I always try to watch your latest releases!
I have to read some phrases for my exam on wednesday so this video came just in time 😅🥲. I am studying French at uni and this is my first Latin exam. Great video btw!
A few days ago I came across the word "Camponotus" (a genus of ant) and wondered where the stress is. There are two Greek words that could end up as "notus/m" in Latin; one means "south" and the other means "back". Here (and in the cricket Camptonotus), it appears to mean "bent back" (καμπή+νῶτον). Since "back" is "νῶτον", the second 'o' in "Camponotus" is long and therefore stressed: Camponōtus. Where is the stress in "Maratus" (peacock spider, a kind of jumping spider)? Scientific names are usually written without macrons, but Wiktionary has (under Translingual, not Latin) the complete declension of "Homo sapiens", with macrons.
I was not able to find an answer to this question, so this is only what I can personally conjecture: "Maratus" perhaps comes from Latin "marra," a hoe or hook. The adjective-suffix -ātus would then form a notion of "hoed"--a picturesque metaphor, as if to say that the patterns in the peacock-spider had been embedded by a hoe. The accent, therefore, would go on the penultimate syllable. Some would Anglicize this as Mar-EY-tus, by analogy with words like apparatus or mammatus; others would pronounce it Mar-AH-tus, by analogy with one pronunciation of literatus. My own preference would be for Mar-EY-tus (I'd also say liter-EY-tus).
Great video, as usual, and a valiant effort to clarify a very thorny issue. And thorny it is, as I think the entire discussion from 9:00 onward ably demonstrates. When we eventually get to "So that's the penultimate stress rule" (at 11:17), I think we can all agree that the use of both the singular article and the very word "rule" is a bit of a stretch. But none of this is to diminish the achievement we're seeing here. What it really shows is that if you want to learn how to speak a language, you need to actually speak it, as our man does, rather than treat it as a curio or a historical relic (or, worst of all, just say "fuck it!" and Italianize it).
You seem to be focused on the exceptions to the rule. They don't disqualify it. Exceptions prove the rule, in fact. That's my secret #6. My students tend to search for exceptions so much that they never master the rule. And yes, I'm talking about English too.
Salve amice! Perdilucide explanasti! This I explain to my students in the first session in the same way! 🙂 But I'm never quite sure about words ending in -que. So cool that you posted the link to the paper! Going to read it! Euge!
Thanks alot for this one, the stress rule has always been somewhat difficult to follow for me. Also that beautiful Italian evening background is magnificent
Imagine if Professor Luke were alive back then in Roman Empire and had the tools he has today to teach us Latin. There would not be so many Romance languages like today and Latin would remain the lingua franca to this day 🚩🚩🚩
Hi Luke, can you make a video about how Latin language evolved into current Roman italian dialect? I’m curious about the current central italian accent, for me as an italian it’s weird to think that ancient Latin evolved into the current language of Rome along centuries
This lesson reminds me about the syllable lesson at school ☺️. The end of the video is hilarious. 😂 E comunque i mercati traianei dentro sono spettacolari. 👍🏻
Thanks a lot! I was trying to wrap my head around Latin accent this very morning, but gave up and thought I'd have to see if you had a video on the subject. :-)
Interesting. The examples of Latin words with accents on final syllables ending in consonants (like "illic" here) is very familiar to us French-speakers given how common it is for French words to drop the final vowels from their Vulgar Latin source words. One of my Spanish profs noted how French words mostly seem to stress the last syllable, unlike Spanish, where it's mostly on the penultimate syllable. But in practice, where both French and Spanish words start from the same Latin source word (as they quite often do), they actually accent the SAME syllable, the only difference being that French has dropped or "muted" the last syllable whereas Spanish has retained one (usually just a vowel).
I love (read "hate") Italian Latin textbooks for high schoolers, where they dont always use the macron where it needs to go, but rather use the short vowel marker to remind the student that the stress won't fall on that syllable. Hardly an improvement, imho.
What a shame this video doesn't get more attention. If you put the stress wrong you often sound like you're speaking a completely different language. It's important! Thanks for explaining this clearly! (Although I'm not a big fan of what you're wearing but it's irrelevant).
Thankyou again, Lucas. Some local people are now asking for my input on reconstructing the original Latin psalmody, for which I and my assistant have reliably found metrical rhythm for... when Classical pronunciation is applied to correctly macronned lyrics! But I am accustomed to working in Biblical Hebrew, so I still want to know where the intonational stresses should go. Guy from the Vatican Observatory, though, said that my Vulgate recitation was most beautiful, and wants me to get in touch with a certain Italian professor of church Paleo-musicology.
Thank you for the clear and pointed explanation. This was very helpful! If I may offer a humble recommendation when recording on site like this: your pacing left and right was a bit distracting; perhaps only shift every so often? Pax
That place reminded me now on a funny story. Many decades ago I was visiting the Trajan market with my Latin class from school and we were about 16 years old, and there I encountered the funniest sentence in Latin which I will never forget, although I forgot almost everything about Latin, but not that following sentence. One of my school mates totally out of the blue said while pointing at a girl he noticed who was randomly passing by "Ecce, muliere ibi, cum tunicola minima et mammis capitalibus" We had to laugh so hard hearing him saying that in Latin and I even don´t know if that was correct Latin but we totally understood what he meant and why she got his attention..her skirt was extremly short and her décolleté was massive
@@davidsoteloruido4766 I’ve always seen that the stress tends to default to the end unless specified by a stress mark. Like how it’s recordár not recódar
@@WeyounSix its pretty straightforward, i can explain it all here >stress is by default penultimate in words ending in a vowel, s, or n >stress is ultimate in words ending otherwise: usually -r, -l, -z, or -d ^in these situations, stress is unmarked (the accent mark is omitted)^ in all other situations, the stress is marked, such as: antepenultimate stress "sábado" exceptional stress "acción" (where you might otherwise expect penultimate stress in a word ending with -n) +additionally, the accent is used to distinguish homophones in writing tu (your) vs tú (you), mas (archaic 'but') vs más (more), el (masculine definite article) vs él (he/him) in short, as a reader of spanish, there is never a situation in which stress is unpredictable. it will always be marked-- sometimes by the absence of a marker itself.
I'm not a linguist, but I have never used the concept "default stress" in Spanish. Your example is an infinitive, and infinitives are allways stressed in the last syllable, precisely because they come from latin infinitives that have lost their last vowel.
In cases such as generaque, Portuguese used to have subtonic diacritics. eg: "histórica" (historic - adjective) would become "històricamente" (historically, adverb) - the main stress is always in MEN in these "-mente" adverbs in Portuguese, but would conserve subtonic function of the original tonic. These uses of the grave accent were abolished in 1971(BR) and 1973(PT).
This proper Latin pronunciation is very similar to the accent stress (and by extension, location) in Southern Italian as compared to Northern Italian; dividing Italy, of course, into only two major regions.
Another great video, Luke! Question: where does the stress fall on a word where the penultimate syllable is followed by a mute and liquid pair of consonants, like tenebra?
You should do a video where you use anglicised Latin pronunciation (eg caesar = SEE-zer) and walk around asking questions, seeing if people know what you're saying. And use the alveolar approximate r for extra kick
Very useful explanations, very clear. And I learned to my dismay that I place the accent wrong with enclitics (the genera-like words) Otherwise, a little thing I think you forgot: the final -iī(s), which is often contracted into -ī(s).
Salve Lucius. I love watching your videos. My dream is to learn Chinese(Mandarin), German and Latin. (my native languages are russian and english). I am only 18 years old and i hope someday i will become as good at the world's languages as you. Good luck.
Don't know whether you've covered this, but there is something, Luke, that you do when pronounce Latin in reading or speaking. And that is the tone or the melody of your speech. We know that we can make stress with volume, duration, beat, and tone. So, how do you include tone in stress, and for that matter, ordinary regular speech or reading? And, given someone like Cicero or Quintilian, where do you take the tone (rising, falling, wiggling, and stable)? This is so much richer than what I ever got in 4 years in High School Latin.
I speak Spanish and the rules are almost tipical as we have four types of tildación and it´s almost identical to latin Strange how things are correlated nowadays with what happened in the past... Great video as usual..
This is very interesting. We also have this in arabic the long vowels and shorter vowels that can completely change a word. I recently also discovered that Classical arabic borrowed some words from Greek and that ancient arabs were influenced by them as well. There I found some similarities. I recommend highly arabic for you, it is very rich and sophisticated in case endings and grammatical deph
these videos remind me when i had to study latin in high school, i hate how at school they focused more in literature than the language, thats the problem of italian instruction, they focus in the wrong things. at least i can say that after 5 years of latin i have a decent knowledge of latin, cant speak it but i know the grammar and i can understand it either written or spoken
Phonetics (and phonology), pronunciation (as well as etymology) are all some of my favorite aspects of linguistics and I appreciate you putting much stress (pun intended) on them. By the way, how would you say "oh snap!" in Latin?
Love your videos. So much interesting information. Need to congratulate you that you sometimes do a long take - how much you say seamlessly without any cuts to the film, is amazing! Loved the cat, btw.
A LONG penult in Latin either contains a long vowel (e.g. TRAJANUS) or followed by a consonant cluster (e.g. OLYMPUS), unless the second consonant in it is L, R, e.g TENEBRAE (stressed antepenult)
In Portuguese, penúltima is a regular word. As for other examples of words formed with paene-, I could cite penumbra [= quasi-shadow] or a much more technical term Paenungulata [= animals very similar to the Ungulata].
Basically the same logic in Portuguese, native romance language speakers can guess that right pretty much, it always fascinates me. I also find funny how ppl always quote Spanish and not Portuguese, I guess it is fair, we are indeed the youngest sister.
Excellent job, as usual! Here's another weird one for you. As you know, in i-stem adjectives such as "alter", the -i- of the genitive singular is long, and is pronounced as a distinct syllable in its own right, thus "al-ter-ī-us", with the accent on the -ī-. But if you look at liturgical texts in which accent marks are indicated (for example, a Missal or a Breviary), they sometimes mark the accent on the ī, but in some places the word is written as "altérius", as though the -i- were short and semi-consonantal. I think the reason is that sometimes the word is used as part of a Latin hymn in which the word has to be pronounced as only three syllables in order to fit the meter correctly. In other words, as "al-ter-ius", a kind of elision to avoid the line having too many syllables. But in quotations of Biblical texts, or in the text of the martyrology, the word is always accented correctly. At first I thought this might just be a mistake, but it holds across all liturgical books that I've seen, so I'm guessing its due to metrics.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Yes, that's right, but I'm talking about differences in written accentuation in the very same publications, namely liturgical texts, which are, I suppose, not exactly informal settings. Or are you suggesting that hymn texts are meant to be less formal even within that setting? It just seems to me that the metrical explanation fits a little better here, but you may well be right, that it is simply a nod towards a kind of informalism.
@@kobaian_ I had often suspected that it was just for metrical purposes, but upon further examination I noticed that in printing texts from the Vulgate they also print "altérius" (for example, the text of Galatians 6:2, used at Sext in the office per annum on Sundays). At first I thought this must be simply a typo, but I checked a number of different breviaries and they all do the same. Now, it's worth noting that the only reason they print accent marks in liturgical texts at all is to help priests who don't know Latin well enough to pronounce it properly, so this is an interesting problem. Luke has the accentuation rule correct, and although he is also correct that informal speech would have sometimes accented on the antepenult, the text of the Vulgate is hardly informal speech and it certainly isn't metrical. So I'm thinking this is just a mistake that worked its way into some typical edition and has never been corrected.
Spanish retains some of the latin accent marks: Latin to Spanish: illīc = allí Ībāmus = íbamos commūnis = común adhūc = aún et cētera = etcétera And so on
As a person who studies both Latin and Ancient Greek in school right now, I want to say that your videos really help me, especially in Latin.
I’m really happy to hear that! Thanks for the nice comment
Molto chiaro. E tuo spiegazione si può parallele con l’architettura in fondo, in cui si vede concetti di costruzione sviluppati per una logica pratica. Disegno tende di semplificare secondo l’uso, e il creazione sodisfa l’occhio. L’immaginazione creatrice fa suonare gli campanelle.
@@RobertRanieri Google translate did a very poor job here
Very cool, keep at it.
@@polyMATHY_LukeI also agree with you guys. Congratulations!
I have studied Latin for two years in school, medical terminology after that, and two short classes on Latin for fun, and NOW, with this video, I finally understood the stress rules! 😍 Only reading about the rules in a book or having a teacher repeat it is too abstract for me, I really needed these examples and explanations. Thank you!
I’m really glad!
I'm so glad you've touched the stress rules of Latin! Thanks again, Luke.
Thanks for watching!
I really love you’re doing these kind of videos in these particular places. It feels like a documentary. I know you could easily explain this topic at the commodity of your house or whatever location, but you doing it here makes me feel like I am there with you, listening to the things you say. Like a tourist and a tour guide.
I’m really glad you like the format
That’s one of my favorite things. The on location shoots really add to the content. Though I will admit to getting distracted by the amazing surroundings once in awhile, lol.
I agree with you but let me point something out. "Commodity" is a false friend! The English speakers use that word to mean "product."
Weird, I know!
The word you need is "comfort."
@@crusaderACR you’re right. Thanks for pointing that out.
Very interesting! The illīc example's stress sounds sort of what's happened to many French words where the last syllable is stressed today, while earlier they had another syllable after that which is now silent
In some words the stress shifted to what is now the last syllable, such as "libellule". The stress in Latin is on the first 'e', and is still there in Spanish "libélula", but in French it's on the 'u'.
And in Spanish, words with ultimate stress mostly exists because they have also lost the last syllable. The final /e/ was lost in words that ended in for example, so cīviTĀtem becomes ciuDAD. And in verbs, the endings often collapsed, so fābuLĀvit became fabLAUT and then habló, contrasting with hablo in Spanish.
All words in French now have their stress on the last syllable; the ones which didn't after the loss of the final Latin syllable just shifted their accent to the last syllable.
Although I have heard there is now a tendency in France to shift the stress onto the penultimate syllable, but I don't know the details. I'm not sure if it's in all words or just disyllabic words, for example.
@@Mercure250 If you listen to some spoken French you will hear the accent move around within words when they're part of a sentence, often it at least sounds like it's on the penultimate. How the French perceive it themselves I don't know. An example for comparison: many Swedish two-syllable words might sound to a foreigner like they are accented on the last syllable, while for a Swede they're obviously accented on the first syllable...
@@HenrikBergpianorganist A French speaker just doesn't hear it consciously. It doesn't make a real difference for us, so we don't really pay attention to it. But it is generally described that French words have their accent on the last syllable. That being said, I did hear about a recent tendency to put the accent on the penultimate for some speakers, but I don't know the details of it. In any case, it is completely subconscious and French people won't notice anything until someone points it out to them.
I think for an italian speaker is pretty common to catch up on prosody, we kept almost the same stress as in latin... great video!
Infatti, la maggior parte delle parole sono simili, ma non tutte.
@@polyMATHY_Luke dimentico sempre che potrei parlare in italiano... hai ragione, diciamo che non sempre basta l'intuito! Complimenti per la tua opera di divulgazione!
The same happens more or less in spanish.
@@eduardocarbonellbelando6865 pretty much. The only consistent difference is that spanish didn't retain vowel length
@@esti-od1mz Italian didn't either. Italian vowel length is allophonic.
Italian here! I have to be honest, I am finally appreciating Latin and I'm actively studying it via Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. Thanks, Luke. You made me realize how cool Latin is and how back in liceo I was good at it, but my approach to it was quite toxic due to the whole, get grades, question later minset. Ugh, those days.
PS: I'm feeling quite privileged right now cause the whole accent system is quite 1:1 between Italian and Latin haha, it's still cool to spot a few differences.
For example?
Your videos are part of the impetus for my decision at 48 to quit my dead-end job of 20 years (that I never loved) to go back to school for Romance Languages, something I'm passionate about. I'm moving to Rome, Italy this Summer and start grad school in October. I'm not worried because, as far as I'm concerned, for the first time in my life, I've chosen to live. Gratias tibi 🙏
I'm not a Latin scholar--just 4 years of classes, long ago. Using the stress rules, as you pointed them out, really does make the word roots stand out verbally. And when I recite from the Aeneidas, using the stress accents and verbally prolonging the long vowels, even when they're not stressed, and trilling the "r"s as you explained elsewhere, it really does sound very poetic! Thanks for the videos!!
Thank you for covering this subject Luke! In the past couple months I’ve found that stress rules are actually very important for correct translation as well as pronunciation.
I absolutely love this channel and the content. It always makes my day better, and then Luke's reaction to the cat at the end somehow made it even more so.
Thanks, Alex!
Could you next cover the stress rules of Greek? I would find it amazingly helpful in taking up the language!
Nice video! I can finally read words with enclitics (-que, -ne,...) correctly. Many textbooks just talk about the penultimate rule itself and ignore this important exception.
I’m delighted!
It is amazing how stable that accent has been. Modern Romance languages don't have this neat pattern anymore, due to losing vowel length and generally losing sounds, but the accent has by and large stayed in the same place for any given word
I love your content. I’ m going to study classic philolgy at university and your videos have encouraged me to become a fluent latin and ancient greek speaker.Un saludo desde Valencia, España.
I feel like you could teach me the most complicated thing ever, and I'd understand it immediately. (Not saying the penultimate stress rule is complicated, but your explanation is on point.)
Thanks Luke! I just started on LLPSI and I'm immeasurably engaged. I started reading aloud so I would know the words' sound, and now with some practice, I will do it with competence.
Great!
It's really similar to how stress works in portuguese! (Except portuguese has a few words with the last syllable stressed, but the great majority of the language follows the rules you said). And I never wondered how stress works in portuguese.
The more I learn latin, the more I learn my mother tongue
you learn that in orinary school. maybe you slept through that class? haha just kidding
@@Vitorruy1 They just told me that stress was on diacritics. This video is a lot deeper
I found this very helpful and very easy to understand. I have watched the same tutorial from Latin tutorial, but I was a bit confused, but after watching your video, I have finally understood about 90%. Thank you for your effort, because of you that I have inloved with Latin.
I’m glad you found it helpful!
Dude. dude. Two years ago? I'm just getting into Latin, the past year, and just picked up Lingua Latina Familia Romana on your commendation, and I hope to keep seeing your new videos. Probably gonna join your channel as member soon. Thanks for all your work.
Edit: Joined.
PS. I just discovered a video I made went global viral so now I'm thinking about YT from a proper business venture perspective. And my stuff brushes up on the languages, especially Latin, Greek (Koine and Ancient), Hebrew, and possibly Arabic. So, it is part of my vision to chip in on those who have inspired me. For conversational stats purposes, the videos on the "no article in Latin, but there is a word *for* article in Latin", and your general vision for high quality pronunciation seen in the video about long and short vowel length, with statistical analysis, were two major items that pushed me to joining membership.
Thanks so much for becoming a Member! I appreciate the support very much. I’m also pleased to hear of the success of your own channel! Keep working with Familia Romana, and eventually you will attain reading fluency.
Luke is looking so suave in that sweater, teaching us about history and language like a cool history professor.
The camera work is smooth as hell. It makes for a polished video.
Excelente vídeo Luke! Tenía dudas en cuanto a la acentuación de las palabras polisilábicas con enclíticas. Acabo de encontrar, por ejemplo, en el cap. XLII de "Roma Aeterna" de Orberg, "caelestiaque arma", y no sabía cómo pronunciarla. Como siempre, una fuente de aprendizaje tus vídeos!! Gracias!!
De nada!
Tibi grātiās agō quod materiales audiovisuales in linguā latinā facis.
I’ve been trying to learn Latin for almost 20 years now (I was an adolescent when I started and mostly studied from books) and all the questions that I have been having ever since, have been answered by your videos. Salvē te ex Nicaraguā.
Salvē et tū! Estoy muy contento si mis vídeos ayudan.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Gracias por responder a mi comentario. Sabía que hablas italiano y otros idiomas, pero no sabía que también hablas español. Forum habesne ubi latine scribere possumus tēcum aut cum altrōs?
I wasn't ever really interested in Latin until I discovered your channel. Now I was almost all your uploads.
That is really kind of you. More to come!
A good general rule when you have consonant clusters is Maximize Onsets. That is, you put as many consonants in an onset (before the vowel (nucleus)) as you can, until you encounter al illegal onset for the language in question. Then all the other consonants go in codas.
Well said
Salve Luke, thank you for yet another helpful and easy to understand rule making life and Latin easier :)
I started doing the 15 minutes morning Latin before work as per Ranieri-Dowling method but I could not do my Latin repetitions this morning. Watching this interesting video made my conscious clear for the day ;)
That’s great! Thanks, and best of luck!
As usual, this is interesting, thank you! I don't know about dialectal variation in the history of Latin, but I wouldn't be surprised if in some dialects the short penultimate syllable changed to long syllable for gaining prominence to carry main stress, like:
a-gi-tur > a-git-tur
I really appreciate the nuances you bring up about accentuation! Particularly with the interesting exceptions to what is otherwise a very regular stress accent rule, with words like illīc and līminaque.
Thanks, Carla! Your insights on the enclitics are foundational to my recitations today.
Salut Luke! I just want to say that I really enjoyed your past couple of videos! Brilliant work man! It's interesting how much more insight into Romanian, learning about Latin gives me. All hail Luke! Long live language geeks!
P. S. Really interesting how macellum in Italian and Romanian (macello/măcel) now mean butchering. Bet they cut a lot of animals in a macellum 😁
Mulțumesc mult!
Domnu'@@polyMATHY_Luke, ce înseamnă acest cuvânt, "mulțumesc"? :-? How is it linked to whatever in real world?
*Once* I have had my fill of learning Spanish, I intend to try to become (if such a grade exists) an A1 student of latin through being inspired by Luke. No, I will never be a professor or master but just to have a proper basic understanding of the route of the 2 laguages which I kind of do speak (French & Spanish) to go with my native English - as in where did (some of it) all come from and how it diverged over the ages into these and other Romance languages. Thanks Luke. You are a really good teacher because you make something which most find boring very interesting - I always try to watch your latest releases!
Thanks!
I have to read some phrases for my exam on wednesday so this video came just in time 😅🥲. I am studying French at uni and this is my first Latin exam. Great video btw!
He is getting so good at these videos it is shocking a mainstream TV show has not picked him up yet.
A few days ago I came across the word "Camponotus" (a genus of ant) and wondered where the stress is. There are two Greek words that could end up as "notus/m" in Latin; one means "south" and the other means "back". Here (and in the cricket Camptonotus), it appears to mean "bent back" (καμπή+νῶτον). Since "back" is "νῶτον", the second 'o' in "Camponotus" is long and therefore stressed: Camponōtus.
Where is the stress in "Maratus" (peacock spider, a kind of jumping spider)?
Scientific names are usually written without macrons, but Wiktionary has (under Translingual, not Latin) the complete declension of "Homo sapiens", with macrons.
It reads to me - at least, most naturally - as Mar-A-tus, as if the second a should have a macron. I am no expert, though
I was not able to find an answer to this question, so this is only what I can personally conjecture: "Maratus" perhaps comes from Latin "marra," a hoe or hook. The adjective-suffix -ātus would then form a notion of "hoed"--a picturesque metaphor, as if to say that the patterns in the peacock-spider had been embedded by a hoe. The accent, therefore, would go on the penultimate syllable. Some would Anglicize this as Mar-EY-tus, by analogy with words like apparatus or mammatus; others would pronounce it Mar-AH-tus, by analogy with one pronunciation of literatus. My own preference would be for Mar-EY-tus (I'd also say liter-EY-tus).
Great video, as usual, and a valiant effort to clarify a very thorny issue. And thorny it is, as I think the entire discussion from 9:00 onward ably demonstrates. When we eventually get to "So that's the penultimate stress rule" (at 11:17), I think we can all agree that the use of both the singular article and the very word "rule" is a bit of a stretch. But none of this is to diminish the achievement we're seeing here. What it really shows is that if you want to learn how to speak a language, you need to actually speak it, as our man does, rather than treat it as a curio or a historical relic (or, worst of all, just say "fuck it!" and Italianize it).
You seem to be focused on the exceptions to the rule. They don't disqualify it. Exceptions prove the rule, in fact. That's my secret #6. My students tend to search for exceptions so much that they never master the rule. And yes, I'm talking about English too.
thank you so much! this video is exactly what i needed. i was always familiar with the pronunciation, but never quite knew where the stress was
I’m glad you found it helpful!
Paeneultima, in portuguese-BR, penúltima. Oh, man... This made me more excited to learn latin and understand the origin of tons of my native language.
Salve amice! Perdilucide explanasti! This I explain to my students in the first session in the same way! 🙂 But I'm never quite sure about words ending in -que. So cool that you posted the link to the paper! Going to read it! Euge!
Gaudeō sī tibi ūsuī erit! Commentāriōs illōs Carla Hurt (Found in Antiquity) pānxit. Analysin optimam esse exīstimō.
Thanks alot for this one, the stress rule has always been somewhat difficult to follow for me. Also that beautiful Italian evening background is magnificent
Thanks, Farya!
Thanks, Luke. It'll help a lot in my Latin studies.
This taught me more in 13 minutes than my teacher did in the whole school year
Thank you very much for the excellent explanation!
Thanks for watching!
I've been watching this channel for so long that I decided to learn... LATIN
Awesome
Imagine if Professor Luke were alive back then in Roman Empire and had the tools he has today to teach us Latin. There would not be so many Romance languages like today and Latin would remain the lingua franca to this day 🚩🚩🚩
Hi Luke, can you make a video about how Latin language evolved into current Roman italian dialect? I’m curious about the current central italian accent, for me as an italian it’s weird to think that ancient Latin evolved into the current language of Rome along centuries
While watching this video, I also try to pronounce the examples you've given, in the Ecclesiastical pronunciation. Gratias Mr. Lucius.
A great exercise
This lesson reminds me about the syllable lesson at school ☺️.
The end of the video is hilarious. 😂
E comunque i mercati traianei dentro sono spettacolari. 👍🏻
Your videos have helped me understand the importance of vowel length in Latin. This topic does not seem a commonly taught one.
Very much obliged, Joseph! I’m glad to hear that
Thanks a lot! I was trying to wrap my head around Latin accent this very morning, but gave up and thought I'd have to see if you had a video on the subject. :-)
Good timing!
Interesting. The examples of Latin words with accents on final syllables ending in consonants (like "illic" here) is very familiar to us French-speakers given how common it is for French words to drop the final vowels from their Vulgar Latin source words.
One of my Spanish profs noted how French words mostly seem to stress the last syllable, unlike Spanish, where it's mostly on the penultimate syllable. But in practice, where both French and Spanish words start from the same Latin source word (as they quite often do), they actually accent the SAME syllable, the only difference being that French has dropped or "muted" the last syllable whereas Spanish has retained one (usually just a vowel).
I love (read "hate") Italian Latin textbooks for high schoolers, where they dont always use the macron where it needs to go, but rather use the short vowel marker to remind the student that the stress won't fall on that syllable. Hardly an improvement, imho.
Ben detto.
What a shame this video doesn't get more attention. If you put the stress wrong you often sound like you're speaking a completely different language. It's important!
Thanks for explaining this clearly!
(Although I'm not a big fan of what you're wearing but it's irrelevant).
Thankyou again, Lucas. Some local people are now asking for my input on reconstructing the original Latin psalmody, for which I and my assistant have reliably found metrical rhythm for... when Classical pronunciation is applied to correctly macronned lyrics!
But I am accustomed to working in Biblical Hebrew, so I still want to know where the intonational stresses should go.
Guy from the Vatican Observatory, though, said that my Vulgate recitation was most beautiful, and wants me to get in touch with a certain Italian professor of church Paleo-musicology.
Thank you for the clear and pointed explanation. This was very helpful!
If I may offer a humble recommendation when recording on site like this: your pacing left and right was a bit distracting; perhaps only shift every so often?
Pax
That place reminded me now on a funny story.
Many decades ago I was visiting the Trajan market with my Latin class from school and we were about 16 years old, and there I encountered the funniest sentence in Latin which I will never forget, although I forgot almost everything about Latin, but not that following sentence.
One of my school mates totally out of the blue said while pointing at a girl he noticed who was randomly passing by
"Ecce, muliere ibi, cum tunicola minima et mammis capitalibus"
We had to laugh so hard hearing him saying that in Latin and I even don´t know if that was correct Latin but we totally understood what he meant and why she got his attention..her skirt was extremly short and her décolleté was massive
Thank you for making it so much easier to understand! The best explanation of the topic. Every beginner needs to hear it.
Reminds me of how in Spanish the default stress is at the end of the word, just second to last here.
Yes, Latin and Spanish have similarly clever and simple systems. Latin’s is much simpler.
In fact most words in Spanish are stressed in the secons to last. That's what we call a "llana" or "grave" word
@@davidsoteloruido4766 I’ve always seen that the stress tends to default to the end unless specified by a stress mark. Like how it’s recordár not recódar
@@WeyounSix its pretty straightforward, i can explain it all here
>stress is by default penultimate in words ending in a vowel, s, or n
>stress is ultimate in words ending otherwise: usually -r, -l, -z, or -d
^in these situations, stress is unmarked (the accent mark is omitted)^
in all other situations, the stress is marked, such as:
antepenultimate stress "sábado"
exceptional stress "acción" (where you might otherwise expect penultimate stress in a word ending with -n)
+additionally, the accent is used to distinguish homophones in writing
tu (your) vs tú (you), mas (archaic 'but') vs más (more), el (masculine definite article) vs él (he/him)
in short, as a reader of spanish, there is never a situation in which stress is unpredictable. it will always be marked-- sometimes by the absence of a marker itself.
I'm not a linguist, but I have never used the concept "default stress" in Spanish. Your example is an infinitive, and infinitives are allways stressed in the last syllable, precisely because they come from latin infinitives that have lost their last vowel.
Optime! Pellicula valde utilis! Thanks for adding the link to the excellent article on enclitics.
Grātiās et tibi agō!
A beautifully clear exposition - completely consistent with the rules that I learnt in high school from Father McEvoy SJ.
I think, this is great, thanks a lot, so long i have been thinking about this.... and you give the answer.....
Glad it was helpful!
His walking in the video while explaining gives it that documentary vibe. It's like I'm watching a very interesting TV show about latin.
That’s great! Thanks for the feedback
Thanks! Very helpful!
Great video, really made this clearer for me.
Always amazing how you manage to do this extemporaneously as if pulling magic out of a hat; you are truly a lord amongt men!
Very kind! These are subjects that I’ve taught for many years.
In cases such as generaque, Portuguese used to have subtonic diacritics. eg: "histórica" (historic - adjective) would become "històricamente" (historically, adverb) - the main stress is always in MEN in these "-mente" adverbs in Portuguese, but would conserve subtonic function of the original tonic. These uses of the grave accent were abolished in 1971(BR) and 1973(PT).
This proper Latin pronunciation is very similar to the accent stress (and by extension, location) in Southern Italian as compared to Northern Italian; dividing Italy, of course, into only two major regions.
Went to Rome twice last year. Really hope to run into you next time, brotha!
Another great video, Luke!
Question: where does the stress fall on a word where the penultimate syllable is followed by a mute and liquid pair of consonants, like tenebra?
I’m going to make another video about that. Both options are possible with those.
Am I a nerd if I love grammar so much? Your channel is a delight ❤️
Thanks!
You should do a video where you use anglicised Latin pronunciation (eg caesar = SEE-zer) and walk around asking questions, seeing if people know what you're saying. And use the alveolar approximate r for extra kick
If you do a video on Greek pitch placement, it would be nice to cover enclitics. I’ve read Smythe a dozen times, but it doesn’t stick for long.
Hi Luke and GG as always. Would you like to speak about U.S. States' mottos in Latin and why Americans use the word "motto" itself?
Vir pulchre, video optimum ut semper, nōn scīvī rem hanc sed nunc sciō ob tē! Gratiās! :)
5:33 ok, that’s really really helpful to know! Great video as always
I’m glad if it helps!
Very useful explanations, very clear. And I learned to my dismay that I place the accent wrong with enclitics (the genera-like words)
Otherwise, a little thing I think you forgot: the final -iī(s), which is often contracted into -ī(s).
It’s not you’re fault; many textbooks give the advice to accent before enclitics based on a bad reading of Late Latin grammarians
Salve Lucius. I love watching your videos. My dream is to learn Chinese(Mandarin), German and Latin. (my native languages are russian and english). I am only 18 years old and i hope someday i will become as good at the world's languages as you. Good luck.
I bloopers sono fantastici. Quel "cazzo!" trasudava italianità da tutti i pori😂
🇮🇹 💚
Good explanation! Nice sweater too.
Don't know whether you've covered this, but there is something, Luke, that you do when pronounce Latin in reading or speaking. And that is the tone or the melody of your speech.
We know that we can make stress with volume, duration, beat, and tone. So, how do you include tone in stress, and for that matter, ordinary regular speech or reading? And, given someone like Cicero or Quintilian, where do you take the tone (rising, falling, wiggling, and stable)?
This is so much richer than what I ever got in 4 years in High School Latin.
I speak Spanish and the rules are almost tipical as we have four types of tildación and it´s almost identical to latin
Strange how things are correlated nowadays with what happened in the past...
Great video as usual..
This is that gold moment when I have finally learned how to accent words in lingua latīna
This is very interesting. We also have this in arabic the long vowels and shorter vowels that can completely change a word. I recently also discovered that Classical arabic borrowed some words from Greek and that ancient arabs were influenced by them as well. There I found some similarities. I recommend highly arabic for you, it is very rich and sophisticated in case endings and grammatical deph
Really great format Luke, really beautiful
Thanks for watching!
Lovely reaction to the cat at the end
🐈
these videos remind me when i had to study latin in high school, i hate how at school they focused more in literature than the language, thats the problem of italian instruction, they focus in the wrong things. at least i can say that after 5 years of latin i have a decent knowledge of latin, cant speak it but i know the grammar and i can understand it either written or spoken
Your jacket reminds me of Lorica Hamata with the design
Phonetics (and phonology), pronunciation (as well as etymology) are all some of my favorite aspects of linguistics and I appreciate you putting much stress (pun intended) on them.
By the way, how would you say "oh snap!" in Latin?
Attatatae!
Love your videos. So much interesting information. Need to congratulate you that you sometimes do a long take - how much you say seamlessly without any cuts to the film, is amazing!
Loved the cat, btw.
Thanks! Yes, I’ve taught these subjects for many years so I enjoy chatting about them.
@@polyMATHY_Luke And I enjoy listening to you talk about them. So much passion. Love it!
I mean, you're passionate about the subject matter... :D
A most clear exposition! Thank you!
Live this, would you be able to do a stress video for Italian please?
Ciao Luke!! Bellissimo video!!
Such a helpful and interesting video. Thank you!
Luke in this outfit looks like the wise weird sage guy that the anime protagonist goes to after they get defeated and lose all hope
Gratias multas Luce ! Mihi adiuvit pellicula tua ut omnes tuae. Latinae nostri temporis liguae multum attulisti ! Gratias plurimas !
A LONG penult in Latin either contains a long vowel (e.g. TRAJANUS) or followed by a consonant cluster (e.g. OLYMPUS), unless the second consonant in it is L, R, e.g TENEBRAE (stressed antepenult)
Indeed. I stated all this in the video and others.
Tenebrae may be may be stressed on either however
@@polyMATHY_Luke DEFINITELY NOT, tEnebrae is the only possibility.
In Portuguese, penúltima is a regular word. As for other examples of words formed with paene-, I could cite penumbra [= quasi-shadow] or a much more technical term Paenungulata [= animals very similar to the Ungulata].
Basically the same logic in Portuguese, native romance language speakers can guess that right pretty much, it always fascinates me.
I also find funny how ppl always quote Spanish and not Portuguese, I guess it is fair, we are indeed the youngest sister.
This channel’s a linguistics nerd’s goldmine
I’m glad you like it!
Excellent job, as usual! Here's another weird one for you. As you know, in i-stem adjectives such as "alter", the -i- of the genitive singular is long, and is pronounced as a distinct syllable in its own right, thus "al-ter-ī-us", with the accent on the -ī-. But if you look at liturgical texts in which accent marks are indicated (for example, a Missal or a Breviary), they sometimes mark the accent on the ī, but in some places the word is written as "altérius", as though the -i- were short and semi-consonantal. I think the reason is that sometimes the word is used as part of a Latin hymn in which the word has to be pronounced as only three syllables in order to fit the meter correctly. In other words, as "al-ter-ius", a kind of elision to avoid the line having too many syllables. But in quotations of Biblical texts, or in the text of the martyrology, the word is always accented correctly. At first I thought this might just be a mistake, but it holds across all liturgical books that I've seen, so I'm guessing its due to metrics.
Words like alter, ille, etc have genitive forms as alterīus and illīus but may also be pronounced in less formal speech as alterius illius
@@polyMATHY_Luke Yes, that's right, but I'm talking about differences in written accentuation in the very same publications, namely liturgical texts, which are, I suppose, not exactly informal settings. Or are you suggesting that hymn texts are meant to be less formal even within that setting? It just seems to me that the metrical explanation fits a little better here, but you may well be right, that it is simply a nod towards a kind of informalism.
@@kobaian_ I had often suspected that it was just for metrical purposes, but upon further examination I noticed that in printing texts from the Vulgate they also print "altérius" (for example, the text of Galatians 6:2, used at Sext in the office per annum on Sundays). At first I thought this must be simply a typo, but I checked a number of different breviaries and they all do the same. Now, it's worth noting that the only reason they print accent marks in liturgical texts at all is to help priests who don't know Latin well enough to pronounce it properly, so this is an interesting problem. Luke has the accentuation rule correct, and although he is also correct that informal speech would have sometimes accented on the antepenult, the text of the Vulgate is hardly informal speech and it certainly isn't metrical. So I'm thinking this is just a mistake that worked its way into some typical edition and has never been corrected.
Spanish retains some of the latin accent marks:
Latin to Spanish:
illīc = allí
Ībāmus = íbamos
commūnis = común
adhūc = aún
et cētera = etcétera
And so on