I Still Don't Understand Why Swedes Do This
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2021
- In this episode I reflect on some very unique cultural traits within Swedish society and how these things manifest ideas and attitudes towards marriage and family life that are very different from where I grew up in the US.
Instagram: / stefanthyron
My parents have never married. I feel like most people who marry in Sweden do it because they think it’s a nice tradition, not because they have or need to.
Yeah in my "generation" in my extend family including siblings, cousins, friends ect. Its only me, a friend and cousin that have married the later two years after their children where born and after they had stayed together for like 10-20 years. So going to weddings is such a rare occusion in Sweden it feels like
or because relatives keeps asking about it..
There are some inheritance benefits that comes from being married. I think some people who would not marry for other reasons might go down to the town hall and get married for the benefits rather then thinking it's necessary to prove their eternal love.
Well to actually move there and become a citizen, I will have to marry my Swedish GF....butnI would marry her anyways. I just wish we could do it later on, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Many also marry for no other reason than to make various types of paperwork easier. Having a kid being the more common one.
watching this as a swede thinking it's weird that you kinda "have" to marry before kids lol
Håller med 😂
Jo hur är det konstigt att man får barn innan man blir gift.
Sweden has some interesting co-habitation laws that help with the legal trickery that having "long-term partner, not married" can come with.
Ja. Min syster har ju fått en son förra året och har inte gift sig och varken jag eller någon annan tycker det är konstigt.
@@TheYodelingViking Eller hur?! Jag valde att vara ensamförälder till min unge och det är det absolut bästa jag gjort i hela mitt liv. Så där kommer vi även in på den "svenska singeln" haha...man (jag) kan klara sig himla bra själv med rätt människor omkring sig. Iaf i Sverige.
If there was stats on how long people spend together before they get married, Sweden would excel in that. Usually couples that get married have been together for like 10+ years.
My parents have been together for 27 years now I think but still not married😬😬
Meanwhile Americans will get married after just a couple of years of being together lol :P My parents have been together for over 30 years and are not married
And still 40% get an divorce
@@riverman83 Staying together is not an easy feat. I am more impressed that 60% stay together rather than 40% considering other options.
@@sususum4102 Well, then they wouldn't really qualify for those kinds of statistics would they?
if you bought a house together in sweden you are practically married xD
Where are you from
Yep, better get that prenuptial signed before moving in together!
Interesting how you thought it's weird to get kids before marraige just after you saw how 82% think religion is unimportant with us. :P There's definitely a connection there. :)
Min tanke oxå
En av deltagarna i Allt för Sverige härom året skulle köra en live på sociala medier. Efter att ha pratat om gud i typ en halvtimme den gången lärde hon sig sedan att fråga efter recept på svensk mat och svenska bakverk istället.
@@MsStina84 Hur många som höll på henne förlorade hon på det draget? Kanske inte det smartaste här i landet. 🙄
De som orkade titta gjorde nog det för att
1. De tänkte att det kommer snart något annat ämne.
2. I ren förbryllning (finns ens det ordet?) över hennes tankar och livsstil. Kulturchock i soffan.
3. En ynkligt liten minoritet som önskade att det var mer av det i Sverige.
Och hur många fullständigt uttråkade kollade på något annat?
Is it the only reason? ;) What about financial responsibility for this child IF you are married? famous 3rd flat for your child when you are divorcing? On the other hand, I know in NL people are getting fake divorces to get more money from the government. Because the system is you get less if you are married. What about Sweden?
Religion sucks
My parents have been a couple since 1971 and never married. On the rare occasion someone has asked why, the answer is "What difference would a ring do?".
This. This is what I think most or at least many swedes think and do
Sweden is maybe in an unusual position. If you look at statistics, you will find that in other countries, the surest way to poverty is for there to exist children in households that do not have "committed" parents, which usually is a marriage; likewise, divorce is very damaging, but that is also reflective of not having committed parents. And it is poverty, since children are expensive and most individuals have limited time and finances, especially relative to others that are together and can combine finances and managing challenges and can pay for a more competitive lifestyle, relegating to those who cannot to a more subordinate (ie, sometimes, "impoverished (posverty)" lifestyle.
@@Obeisance-oh6pn I'd just like to add here that not getting married in Sweden is in no way related to not being committed to one another. It's just that it really doesn't make much of a difference in their lives.
There is only one reason for marriage in Sweden. The party... 🤣😂
@@Meile78 That was the main reason me and my wife got married. Her family lives 350 km north of us, my family lives 500 km to the south. Also, we had separate circles of friends. So it was pretty much just an excuse to get everyone to meet up.
Just because a couple doesn't share the same surname it doesn't mean they're not married. My mum kept her maiden name when she and my dad got married.
My uncle and his wife did the same. Married almost 30 years now.
Mine too =)
That's so feminist.
@@ash3rr how is that feminist?
@@Mr.Goufball It's feminist because traditionally women changed ownership from their father to their husband, and as a proof of ownership she had to change her last name to that of her husband. The idea of keeping your maiden name is quite modern, and stems from feminist ideas of female independence. Today though it's done for other reasons as well. Some people just don't want to take their partner's name for one reason or another, and in quite a few cases men takes the name of their wife as well. There is also the option to keep both.
In both Norway and Sweden, you have to move out early especially if you want to do a certain education. Because on many smaller places, they don't offer the thing you want. Education is very centralised to cities and not smaller towns, of course we have schools in smaller towns too but they often don't offer the line you want or you want a specific school etc.
I live less than an hour from Linköping, so I think I’m pretty lucky in that regard.
Yes I agree. Young people living in the countryside move from home at 16 to go to college in the nearest town. They have to because it takes long time to travel from home every day. From the farms maybe there are no other alternativ than driving a car. And here in Sweden you can’t take your driving license before 18. Thats also a difference from US.
Even though a Swedish couple might not ever get married, it's still very common to get engaged. Although being engaged in Sweden is usually not an acceptance of a marriage proposal, but more like a mutual declaration of love to each other and also a way to show people you are in a committed relationship.
Both you and your partner wear matching engagement rings, usually plain gold, with your partner's name and the date you got engaged engraved on the inside. It's almost like a "light version" of being married and you can be engaged for years and years without actually tying the knot so to speak. This has been a thing in Sweden for decades.
My parents have done this. and have 3 kids and house, no plans of ever getting married.
Tbh I much prefer our engagement system, the idea of a proposal seems really uncomfortable and I'd much rather just come to a mutual agreement with a partner about it. My parents are unmarried but been together for over 30 years, and they've been engaged for a majority of that time so they both wear rings but have no plans on ever actually getting married
I want a diamond. Not a just a ring I think married is a commitment to each other .
@@pattipurcell6382
You sound like a craving gold digger.
This whole difference in how one lives can be described in one word: religion, or that religion in the United States exists in everyday life, with a completely different presence than in Sweden.
And a very false religion. Not turning the other cheek, not following the 10 commandments... and so on.
My daughter moved out when she was 17 and she’s been doing great on her own! She is 20 now and she is so mature and doesn’t need any help (financial or other) from mom and dad. She was in high school when she moved out and she was so ready to live by herself even though I would’ve waited for couple of years. We are best friends so it’s not like she wanted to escape her parents 😄 We are Finnish but the culture is very same with Swedes.
I so love the Swedish outlook on life, total respect for other people's independence. Excellent.
Sweden does usually show up as the most individualistic country in the world when institutes try to make such comparisons.
A country where you get frown upon if you still live at your parents place when you're over 20 years, not so nice. In Sweden we have a saying "sköt dig själv och skit i andra""mind your own business and don't give a crappie about others" and that's the mentally a lot live after.. being independent isn't the best way
@@CoverediCake Yes, it's important that we are comfortable with our own chosen lifestyles and can tell people who try to interfere to get lost.
@Josh Yates My wife's from China, and when she watched (the Norwegian teen) tvseries Skam, she was surprised over how adult the teenagers were, while the actors said in interviews how realistic and relatable their characters were for them as teens. :)
@@CoverediCake I actually like that about Sweden. I think it makes us stronger people and we will do better when we don’t have our parents to rely on anymore. But that’s just me, and you know what we say, “the taste is like the bum, split!”
Btw, it's quite common to be married but not take your partners name. My mother, for instance, didn't take my father's last name because it would just cause problems for her carreer wise. Makes perfect sense to me. You'll also see the guy take the girl's name sometimes, or both of the couple taking on a completely new name.
Maybe as the swedish welfare system is based around helping individuals so they doesn't need to relay on other people have made swedes independent.
What kind of independence is it, when You don't rely on another _person_ but on the _state_ instead? That is an illusion. You are only truly independent when You do not have to rely on anyone or anything - which maybe a case for extremely rare people on earth.
@@jangelbrich7056 I’d say we’ve collectively created a society that truly allows for individual freedom and independence. Perhaps.
Men det är väl bra att det finns CSN så alla ges möjlighet att kunna flytta och gå på universitetet.
@@jangelbrich7056 And what is a 'functional', democratic state? It is a representation of the people made to make life better and safer in various ways. If it does not fill this function, then what point is there of having one? It is less relying on the government and more of a symbiosis.
Judging by the comment I assume that you are a USamerican, and as such you may think that our government and system of laws are as untrustworthy as yours, but this is not the case. We dont have the nearly same level of political corruption. Thus we swedes are not nearly as anarchistic or self-centric in our world view. We dont have to be.
@@torbjornlekberg7756 It is steadily getting to the same level though.
Jag har levt på samhällets baksida under en längre tid pga diagnoser jag föddes med, och det du talar om är endast en glorifierad illusion av vad Sverige är. Vården, socialtjänsten, försäkringskassan... De är korrupta allihop. Läs på om hur försäkringskassan har behandlat sjuka människor, även döende människor. Vakna. Det Sverige vi hade finns inte längre.
Som följare i flera år av din kanal har jag märkt hur du blir mer och mer "svensk" i ditt beteende.
Wow guess it's having an effect on me even if I am not noticing it as much, interesting!
@@StefanThyron You have assimilated well, the only thing you could tell that you ain't "swede", is your accent when talking swedish :)
@@StefanThyron and you talk excellent swedish! very well done, for being in sweden not that long (since you have been talking swedish for some years now,) :D
I notice that he is more "wise", like he reflects upon his themes on a deeper level with more perspectives. He has a broader perspective on the things he talks about (I guess age is also a factor tho since I'v been following him for a long time). I know that being humble and reflective, especially in an intellectual way, is something that is valued in Swedish culture. Cool to see how small cultural things like these can influence ones personality.
Han skriver snart arga anonyma lappar till högljudda grannar
My parents are approaching their late 60s and have 3 +30 year old children and are not married. It's definitely not as important here as it is in the U.S.
I was in a relationship with a girl from the US for 1.5 years. At one point we were having a conversation online with people we didn't really know and I explained that in Sweden it's very common for people to not get married and that both my parents (separately) and my sister had been in relationships for decades without getting married. I continued by saying that I didn't really see the need to ever get married but if my girlfriend wanted to, I didn't have a problem with it.
She later said people had messaged her privately and asked why she was with someone who didn't want to commit to our relationship. I'm a really calm guy but that made me so incredibly angry. What business was it of theirs what we did in our relationship? I don't think I'll ever understand that.
Man I love watching your videos because they exactly speek for me as a foreigner living in Sweden trying to understand the society.
My parents' proposal:
Dad: I've made the arrangements for christening [third son].
Mom: Hey, as long as we're in church anyway, wanna get married?
Dad: Ha, sure, why not.
...Then Dad forgot all about it until he had to sign the paperwork the day before. Surprise!
hahaha it was almost the same for my parents. when my big brother got baptised (or whatever its called lol) my parents surprised all our relatives with their wedding bc like u said, they were already in church lol
The only reason to get married is for simplicity associated with inheritance in case of death. (Unmarried with 2 kids, middle aged)
Yep. Unless some kids are from previous relationships, then they're särkullsbarn and get their money anyway.
Samma här. Efter arvskiftet var överförmyndarnämndens första kontakt med mig ett hotbrev. Jag hade inte lämnat in årsräkning (gode mannen för arvsskiftet hade inte berättat om det) och om jag inte gjorde det inom två veckor skulle de frånta mig mitt uppdrag. Som mamma då, eller? Upphäva det biologiska bandet? Man kan inte ringa någon speciell där, man ber växeln be någon ringa. Ingen ringer. De hindrar av alla skandalreportage om inte förhindra att gode män ruinerar sina myndlingar och de envisas - även i växeln - med att kalla mina barn för mina huvudmän (och mina barn skulle nog gärna vilja vara mina bossar). Jag sa: "Jag ser dem inte som mina huvudmän utan som mina barn." Växeltelefonisten sa med en röst som hade kunnat mörda: "Dina HUVUDMÄN!!!!!!!!"
I'm from Norway, my parents have been together since they were 20, have two kids, still not married. And I will probably do the same.
There are BIG legal differences between being married or just living together. "Sambolagen" is not at all the same thing as "Äktenskapsbalken". But many Swedes believe it's pretty much the same. Until something happens.. 😉
I was going to comment that!
Very important to check the laws before you decide to live together! Often those who not marry need a testament, and other legal "papers" to make the situation fair, after something happens.
At the least one should check the laws together and discuss them!
/50+ lady here 🤓/
While that is true about he several times mentions registered partnership and compares it to Married and between those two there arnt any real diffrence
@@christinae30 Absolutely an important thing to have settled and also maybe to have the immidiate family informed.
Dad pretty much scared the crap out of us (grown) kids by telling us that he needed to talk to us and we needed to go home to him and stepmom. Turns out they wanted to inform us about the will or most importantly that stepmom could keep the house in case dad dies. Not that any of them thinks we'd throw her out, but better safe than sorry.
I was so relieved to find out that it was only legal paperwork and nothing terrible.
You can easily write a samboavtal. If you have kids a testament is good to write as well. Marriage though also need be with a disclaimer that you better write a prenup. Regarding kids I find sambolagen rather primitive and would need to be adjusted.
What differences are there? The only thing I know about is that if you're unmarried your partner won't automatically inherit when you die (plus obviously things are different if you break up). Is there anything else?
Stefan
these are great videos. really enjoy the examination of Sweden and what it means to be a Swede.
for a lot of people, they want to know what it would be like if they were there and you do a great job of assisting with that.
As a person living in Sweden and I have watched a few of your videos, you are a very positive person and I love that you are willing to learn more about Sweden but also the language, btw I like your Swedish too!
And all of this makes me love being Swedish :P
EEMMIILLL!!
Förgrymmade unge!
@@Cucumberturnip du käre lille snickerbo
här kommer jag igen
The American culture and way of living is still so burdened by their Puritan heritage.
Always fun informative, and you get an outside perspective as well. And fun as I spent a year in Ithaca NY way back and remember how I compared USA and Sweden back then.
@stefanthyron Have you watched the TV-show "Married at first sight"? I find it so interesting how the Swedish and the American versions of that show differ. The Swedish participants seem to treat it like a dating experiment and seem to have a lot harder to commmit to the mariage-part of the whole process wereas the American participants go all in from the start and view the experiment like any other "ordinary" marriage right away. You should really watch it, both versions are on SVT play.
Super interesting! You really mention some good points there :)
I am Korean 🇰🇷 and in a relationship with a Swede 🇸🇪 and this video is very helpful for me to understand where he is coming from! 🤔
Have you tryed to sort out the" allemansrätten" yet ?
Im waiting for that episode .
Probably the most exotic topic of Sweden to forigners ?
Amazing! Im learning as a swede to live in Spain with spanish culture and oh what a difference. Im a total hermit amongst dramatic superchatty spanish culture. So interesting!
Well, that must take courage and strategy. Good luck, and come home when you want to feel totally accepted for a while.
yep my parents have been together for 30 years and they never married. they're not even engaged. and i dont see anything weird in that :)
I love to listen to you comparing the difference between the US and Sweden. And also how you react to them. 💕
Marriage is more of an afterthought in Sweden.
So true, hahaha!
As a Swede, i'm quite independent. I honestly want to be in a relationship now. I'm 22 at the moment, and i want to be in a relationship like i said. I just don't know where to look, as i'm an introvert. It doesn't help me that i hqve autism and ADHD, as i was born with it, but it would be nice to be in a relationship now
Get on tinder bro. Nothing to lose
Maybe go for get to know people who has the same interests as you? My husband and me found eachother throu metal and that we both are nerds, and he has Aspberger. You can start with chatting online and take small steps that works for you?
I found my partner through an internet forum where you look for new friendships. I didn't want a relationship, just a friend, so it happened naturally. Maybe look for new friends and if you're lucky you'll also find a partner. Btw, we've been together for 10 years now ^^
Why should married couple have advantages anyway, regardless of country?
Law.
Love your videos man can’t wait to go see my Swedish friend he was a foreign exchange student
I'm one of those who moved from home for upper secondary school at 16! I moved back to them after I graduated though... Probably would have moved to wherever I'd go to university if there wasn't a pandemic going on...
Really enjoying all the videos!
@North America yes, I am.
American in Sweden here: I don't think you can say people are independent in Sweden, per se. They are highly dependent on collective bargaining and public policy for wellbeing, which means that they do not need to be as dependent on their families and their romantic partners. This of course has its upsides, but it can also mean that you have fewer "pushes" to engage with family and to get married. That can spell loneliness. In most countries, US included, marriage is as much an economic institution as it is a romantic institution. Our expectations as Americans is that your family and close circle (and church) will pay for you if you end up in dire straights, not the national collective. Welfare is allocated to the smaller unit, which of course means you are in trouble if your network is not particularly well-off.
It sounds like it is negative that we don't have "pushes" to get married in Sweden. Isn't that just a good thing? In the US, I see a lot of people getting married to people they met pretty recently. Is that really a good thing? Is it not a positive thing that we don't have an incentive or a cultural pressure?
Fair point. I guess you could say we are more lonely. However we have a very strong tradition of "associations" (föreningar) where we become close with others by our own choice. I ultimately think that well-fare society makes the individual much more free, whereas in USA the family as a unit is perhaps more free.
@@ninahersson-daniels501 what if they don't mess up but become seriously ill? Medical bankruptcies which is something western Europeans don't really know abut have got nothing to do with messing up but is purely bad luck. It has nothing to do with not being adult or not wanting to take responsibility.
Got to add one more thing, I’ve lived and worked in Sweden and in America, and Sweden is way way better on so many levels!! From work environment, relations between boss/employees, no hierarchy!! Friendly atmosphere etc etc!
As you said, when students go to gymnasiet, many have to go to a different city and thus get out of the house. So is the housing for them provided at gymnasiet or do students rent a place together? And are there any specific areas in Stockholm like Liljeholmen which are the general hotspots for students to rent/buy an apartment?
NRK, Norwegian Broadcasting had a series about the independance of people in Norwway. Apparently it comes from the fact that we don't really need family to help us out with student loans etc. I also remember that when I started studying, the norwegian national student bank "Lånekassa" gives kids more money if they move out from their parents house. If you live at home, they expect your parents to pay part of your cost of living. So students in Norway rather move in with others or friends and try being independant. It also comes from the fact that norwegian kids are more trained in being independent from an early age. Parents expect the kids to move out, so they can do what they like doing. They are also not always so interested in being nannies for the grandkids. It follows through our hole life basically. The state doesn't care about the kids resposibilities and if they behave the right way, so kids develop a more independant way of life.
Yes, same here (Sweden). Honestly, I think it’s a nordic thing. Although I’m not sure if we share an apartment the way you describe you do … with that said, it’s almost 30 years since I was a teenager. It can definately have changed since then. Most probably have. That said, independence is important to us all. And if we hadn’t realised before how important social interactions are, we certainly have now, during this pandemic.
@North America We have said. I'm from Norway and the previous poster was from Sweden.
@North America You must be kidding.
I watched and am confused: what is it you “still don’t understand”, you just explained it?
People only get married because of
A: Religion demands it.
B: social stigma not to.
C: Economic/Legal benefits.
Non of that applies here, so there’s no need to marry.
Marriage does not make your relationship with your partner more valid, commited, monogamous than being commited without a ceremony.
Ceremonies are just that, unless you have religious beliefs that you’ll burn in hell for not marrying your partner.
What I don’t understand is how SOO many Americans chose to have weddings that are so extremely backward. With that I mean superduper genderstereotyped in the cheesiest imaginable way, with the important addition of “flossing the green”.
2021 still this 19th century normativity, how does that even figure for people in a modern lifestyle?
Fathers “giving the bride away” in THIS era??
Mothers saving for their daughters wedding all their lives?? I cannot wrap my head around it.
I understand the purely religious bit, and the symbolism is inportant also to humanists who don’t identify as religious this way or the other in both countries.
Having lived in SF it makes total sense to me that weddings or love ceremonies can be as individual and varied and non-conventional as their are individuals, regardless of genderidentity of both parties, and that legislation makes it hard to not marry if you have kids, but how is that last bit reasonable?
In the rest of the US the norm is still super old fashioned and the same.
Also here marriage once was a socioeconomic pact between families and their assets, but what modern thinking person voluntarily uses that vocabulary today and feels genuine?
The reason pple get married at all here after having kids etc is to just celebrate their union after the initial infatuation (which is a mature choice) or bc they intend on moving to a more conservative country, or something.
People often don’t loose their last name and dudes take the brides name to a good extent in cases were one last name is used, (unsually the more unique name wins).
And proposing doesn’t mean man asks woman on knees presenting as expensive a rock as he can afford to persuade her with.
Proposal rings aren’t nessecary, engagement bands if used are worn by both, and women propose and often it’s just a mutual decision not involving “risk”, “surprize” etc. Which imo is level headed adult behavior that MEANS something more than fleeting romantic public displays.In California almost anyone can register for the license to be executor of one wedding.
You can marry on the beach or in your house etc, and in comparison the UK and Church of England is conservative requiring a church for the ceremony.
But other than that...
What’s your question?
If you live in a nation where you DO live at home until marriage in your 30’s, chances are the brides family pays for the wedding, the families agree and may have set it up, and bride and groom show up, on their families terms.
That makes sense too if women needed a husband as legal guardian and marriage means business between families (hello italy). How’s that a thing in a modern and more gender equal society?
Please explain, I don’t get it.
🙏
I've watched videos on this channel in a very sporadic way since the beginning, and I'm still as interested and surprised at how things we do here and that is so normal to us, is not for others. I've noticed it myself of course when I've been abroad, especially Swedes Vs Spaniards, Spanish people are SO different - but in a good way!
As a Swede, I have the explanation for you: People not getting married is related to the general unimportance of religion in Sweden. Marriage is seen by most people as an unnecessary religious ritual. If you want to live with your partner and be committed to each other, you can do so out of the will of both people, instead of needing this ceremony of marriage that really doesn't change anything other than on paper. It might sound cold to non-Swedes, but really, religion and anything related to it is seen as naive, unscientific and in many ways almost silly and backwards. Religion is pretty much considered a thing of the past that really has no place in modern society among people capable of critical thinking, because science tells us that religion is nothing more than fairy tales for the gullible. Now, there are absolutely religious people in Sweden too, and they will disagree with me, but this is by far the general mentality of Swedes. There are of course always exceptions and some get married anyway because it is traditional or because they want to show commitment to their partner, but it is relatively uncommon. Nobody cares if you're "sambos" living together or if you're married.
And I personally LOVE that part of Sweden. I have actually "tried" to believe and understand what it is to be religious and "finding god" as some would say, but I'm waay too critical and logical to believe in a god in the sky. Even as a small kid might I add.
So it's really nice to live in a country where religion are such a free choice.
Science does NOT say that religions are all fairytales. Just like the selection of butters in the grocery store does NOT say that alligators are dangerous. They occupy completely different spheres, religion is by definition outside the theoretical scope of science.
@@Henrik46 Well, when the bible says the Earth and the heavens were created in six days, and how the moon, sun and stars were created, and the first people and so on, it clearly disagrees with science (and logic). That's just a few silly examples, but most religions by themselves are filled with a load of ridiculous statements and primitive thinking that clearly aren't factually true.
People have had religious beliefs in all human history in different ways, and they all firmly believe that their own religion is correct. If any religion were to be correct, then that would also conclude that ALL other religions (more or less) are incorrect, because only one could be true.
But the thing with religion is that, no matter how ridiculous the statements, many things are impossible to prove or disprove. It's like trying to disprove that there aren't any pink flying elephants in the universe. You can't disprove it.
So yes, while the butter package doesn't state that alligators are dangerous, it does contain a lot of non-sense that science tells us is clearly wrong.
But the bottom line is that religion is man-made and then passed on to generations through books. It can become deeply rooted within a person, quite similarly to one's nationality, and thus it isn't something you can easily change or adjust once you have it. But just like with science, I much rather believe in science of today than science of 2000 years ago. These religious texts are filled with so much non-sense that has no base in reality, and this is why I call it fairy tales.
@@Mortac Your elephant fallacy must be discussed. The question of a belief in a higher power is almost infinitely more sophisticated than your analogy. I believe in modern science, like you claim you do.
Science, first of all, rests on several unproven philosophical axioms, which science cannot give us. One of these is that in order to do science you have to be able to trust your own mind. A random selection of traits in billions of years of evolution makes that impossible. Only those who believe in a higher power, have reason to trust their own minds.
Furthermore, the scientific method involves experiments and repeatability. It is both theoretically and practically impossible to recreate any process that supposedly happened more than, say, 1000 years ago. We have no way of knowing how any process looked like, in cosmology, biology, tectonic shifts etc.
Your "logic" is highly dependant on the unproven standard model, it is not your own independent reasoning.
Many things in the Bible that "modernists" thought were legends, have turned out to be outright proven, like the cities of Tyre, Capernaum and Ninive.
The Israelites were told to do many things they didn't understand, like putting the latrine outside of the camp, not eating pigs or prawns etc. The psalmist wrote of the molting of the eagle's feathers, something discovered in the modern age. All things which science now tells us have some huge benefits, but which the Israelites couldn't possibly know at the time.
@@Henrik46 Meh. Saying you can't prove things that happened 1000 years ago is clearly wrong. Obviously there are a lot of things that can be proved through science. If you say it isn't so then you don't even seem to understand basic science.
And this sentence: "Only those who believe in a higher power, have reason to trust their own minds." That's such a load of bull. That even assumes there would be a higher power, which you can't prove, nor disprove, but again, logic and science tell us it isn't so.
Which religion is correct, according to you? Since if you are religious, you deny all other religions, more or less.
Sorry, but religion should be banned if you ask me. Nothing has killed more people or caused more conflict in the world than religion. I'm fully aware that is never going to happen, but for as long as we have people believing in all these stories because books and their parents tell them so, we're always going to have people pitted against each other.
You may be a firm believer in your religion, but had you been born elsewhere, you would have the same firm belief in a different one.
I'm one of the exceptions to moving out of my parent's apartment early. I was 24. But I have never had to do something that I've heard and read that a lot of kids have done. They move out, can't make it on the outside and move back in with their parents.
I have cousins in their 50s who still live with their parents, in the same houses they grew up in
Hi Stefan. I am Canadian and coming to Stockholm this October. Generally speakin and based on yoru experience, give me an overview of weather. I mean, how's the weather each season of the year? Especially summer and winter time.
"... extremely unique to Sweden". hmmm. Ok, you are an American in Sweden and have seen mainly that country. However, if you look at those phenomena that you talked about, even through the figures that you presented, you will notice that the difference to the other Nordic countries are rather small. A lot of what you talk about are often Nordic/Scandinavian features, some of which may be slightly more pronounced in Sweden but with rather small or sometimes even negligible difference compared with the neighbouring countries.
Änna lite off topic utifrån videon men. Hade du kunnat tänka dig träffa en av dina följare? (mig menar jag då) Kan lära dig en hel del! Dock i Göteborg 😊
I find Stefan's reflections so interesting; often about stuff I've never, as a Swede myself, given a thought and this is definitely one of those. Almost every couple I know in my age (30+) with children is unmarried and those who aren't got married after the births to celebrate their parenthood.. sort of.
I’d say that it probably reaches back several hundred years. Before the 1700s just being engaged was considered fine in rural areas because getting married was a cost not all could bare and it was not beneficial for the society to have people hold off on starting families (considering high child mortality, war etc.) in the 1700s (I believe) new laws were made to force marriage. Then again in the middle 1800s (1858 I think) women age 25 and older could get emancipated, but married women were not. So couple, particularly working class in the major cities, started to cohabitate since quite a few women were not willing to give up their freedom. It gave rise to an expression “gift på stockholmska”. Just a historical perspective on why cohabitation
Yes
So interesting video! I studied in Arizona for 6months and remember being confused when all my friends where like ”I just wanna get merried!”.. 👀🤷🏼♀️ They where so young then and I remember thinking ”but there are sooo much MORE things I want to do!”. ☺️
I moved out when I was 16 (for school), got my own apartment when I was 17. One of the best things I''ve ever done.
But the question is... did you pay for it yourself? Or the government did?
@@marias6583 I worked after school and and weekends to pay about half the rent (my parents payed the rest while I was in school), so the government did not pay for it ;)
@@Idaho1989 Ok that’s good 👍
You were very independent early, and hopefully didn't feel alone with all that support from your parents. Many 16 year olds are more mature than we give them credit for. Kudos to you! Hope you will keep deciding for the best things again and again. I kind of think you will, and you'll have a good life on a solid ground. Education is very important!
@@marias6583 The govt send the parents 'child allowance' money until the child turns 16. Then if the child is in school the allowance turns in to 'student grants'.
Once the student turns 18 the money does directly to the student. The grants last until the spring term when they turn 20.
After that you can apply for super nice student loans from govt agency CSN to pay for living while studying.
I see that you live in Vasastans Röda Bergen right next to Norra Tornen in Hagastaden - I use to live there a few years ago. How do you find it?
In Sweden if the high school you want to go to is not offered in your local area you can either get paid for bus/train or as in my case be eligible for accommodation if it's more than like 7 swedish miles away. (In 2007-2011) I received 2800 kr /month + 1000 normal 'child support' for living out of my parents house. We found like the cheapest apartment that was at the time 2100kr /month (still live in it today it's 3800 rises + new balcony) My dad paid the rent, internet and that monthly. (like 3k /month for 4 years thx dad) And I lived of the money I got form the government.
So yes you get money so you can move at the age of 16. Best thing I ever done moving from a small town to VÄSTERÅS. Best town.
Västerås, trevlig stad :)
On point....good commentary 🌿🌎🌍🌏🌿
Fascinating!
Damn dude, im from Poland, just moved to Sweden, and now im ur new sub. Take care :-)
I enjoyed the video! :)
So did I! :-)
I moved out my parents house in the age of 20, nothing wierd about that. Have 2 children, never been married but engaged 3 times. But i do jump in ralationship pretty Quick, when i'm in love, i show it 🤩😂. There some more data for you. Keep up the good work!!
It’s not just being independent. Some Swedes take relations from one night stand, some take one year to be in a relationship. They are open to choices although they may like you. If they feel it’s coming, usually they don’t say no.
Exactly the same in Finland. I think most people still want a wedding if they do want to get married but that's expensive, and most people in their late 20s-early 30s can either afford buying a house or having a wedding so they choose the more practical choice which makes a more concrete difference in their lives. 🏡
Same thing with kids, getting married beforehand doesn't really make any difference and people are not going to judge you if you're not married so might as well do it later if that's something you want and save all that money for raising a child which is actually going to make a drastic change in your day-to-day life. 🤷🏼♀️Most of my friends and cousins with kids who are in their 20s-40s aren't married and even my 97-year-old grandma doesn't care (but imagine explaining this to my Indian parents-in-law 😁).
I was about to comment the same thing as a Finn 🙂 I will never understand the way American girls are waiting for getting engaged and married. I’ve been married and divorced twice (getting a divorce is so quick and easy here) and now I’ve lived together with my significant other for 11 years and we’re not even engaged. Still going strong 💪
I would love to see more videos when your outside in the City just too see how it looks like.
I moved from home at 19 (after military service) but my younger brother moved at 16, for school in another city.
One of my friends from childhood had four boys and been with her partner for over 15 years by the time they got married. I kind of thought. What was the point at that time.
Alot of societies that are more family oriented (different history ) the smallest "legal" unit is the family, where as in Sweden it's the individual. In that there are not as much social safety nets as the family is supposed to take care of you in some countries. There are ofc pros and cons to this.
In Sweden people get married quite late. I remember I have a hard time getting used to the fact that alot of Americans get married in their twenties. I can certainly see there being alot of pressure for these people to stay together even if its not working, from what I have seen and heard. But ofc divorce rates are still quite high. I just don't think most twenty year olds know enough about them selves and about life to be able to stay together for their entire life. I personally don't see a problem with having a series of relationships in their teens and twenties. I don't see any reason to rush into marriage. Most people don't become adults before they are thirty yrs old anyway I'n my experience. Nothing wrong with that. Learn about life , travel the world and explore your self when u are young I say ! I don't think that I would need to involve the state or church in relationships. Love is enough I say. People should live the way they want
I know that I speak in generalities here
And me not understanding how ppl can get married so young is I suppose the same as You thinking it strange that people don't get married here.
Cause ofc, your own culture might seem as strange to you as a your customs might seem to me! Just live and love , and be true to yourself 🙂
I had a class "reunion" thing a while back where everyone talked in shock about how weird it was that one of our former classmates (who was not attending) had gotten married at age 22. In America that wouldn't be seen as weird, but here it's like "holy shit he got married that young?!?!"
Vi vill bara flytta hemifrån så fort som möjligt, vara singlar, och hålla gud och sådant trams utanför våra liv. Så vi kan få vara ifred och få lite jävla lugn och ro en stund :)
😂😂🙌🏼
Vi har vikingablodet kvar i oss! :)
Sant som fan
You are describing Norway 100%.
Probably similar/same in denmark and finland.
@@Frendh Swedes move out earlier than Danes
@@frederikjrgensen252 Those who do not live centrally move earlier. I belive many people live very centrally in Denmark :)
@@MrMKE100 You are 100% right about that. The government will also not give you the full amount of study money until you are 21. They will only give you the money if you are a certain distance away from your parents house. It is common for young people to live with their parents till they are 22.
I'm pretty sure that the reason the age of moving out is so much lower is because a) wages are much higher including for jobs aimed at young people which in other economies would be considered "low skill" and therefore low paid, like serving or working in retail, and b) because rents are not crazy high due to the rent control processes that exist, making it affordable to move out to work or into student accommodation which is particularly cheap. The housing issue is a bit trickier, and I'd be really interested for you to discuss one thing that I've not heard mentioned so far: access to stable housing. Maybe you've discussed this in one of your videos but the renting model (specifically first hand vs second hand contract) slows supply down whilst keeping rents low, and when I lived in Sweden 10 years ago there was a real crisis of accessibility leading to a lot of illegal trading of contracts for cash under the table. I'd be very interested to hear your take on this.
Sweden has actually quite a long tradition of people living together without marriage. Even back in the 1700s there were areas in Sweden where it was common for young people without a estate of their own to live together, at times even have kids, without being married. It was also not all that uncommon for couples to live together for many years and then when a kid were on the way the got married.
The the industralisation came and many young people moved to the cities with many people and few houses. There were a term called "Stockholm Marriages", which were living together as a married couple without actually being married. I think it was now it started to be more accepted, but it was still very much a thing of the lower classes.
Then you have the "post-war" generation that grew up with the "folkhemet", worker-romantisation and egalitarian view that made revolt against the old. To many of them it was a mark of defiance and independence to not get married (especially for women in that generation).
There is also this thing that many Swedes want to keep their promises. The "until death do is apart" thingi seems to many as something that is impossible to know if one can keep. Hence they tend to feel reluctant to make it.
Also some people connect the concept of marriage with "keeping it together" out of duty (or for the kids) rather the keeping the love alive.
And with the "partnership" so close in the law to the marriage many do not feel the need to actually get married.
I was always having quarrels with my parents, so I moved out at the age of 17 before getting my studio flat/the Swede. Independence is also correct, which was a major culture clash with my British now ex husband. He wanted ne to be a house wife and him providing and I wanted to work
Were together and engaged with an Englishman and broke up over him deciding to take a long time jobb and deciding to settle in Birmingham without asking me where I wanted to live ( apart from if I wanted to come and look at an appartement with him) since I’d put a lot of money and time getting a degree in international affairs and learning several languages to get ready to have an international career…thought he understood since he showed me off like a high flyer but obviously haven’t realised that there are not a lot of international politics and international institutions work there and somehow just thought that I’d automatically should move where his career was … he married a teacher just like his mom whom his dad divorced when his dad had gotten a great career, the kids were grown up, he’d found a beautiful and very nice new model and left her, my boyfriends mother with very little money after she’d stayed home and taken care of the kids. Loved my boyfriend but did not want to end up like his mother.
This independence comes from, as I believe it, a pretty equal distribution of the assets of the country for all citizens. Free education, free medical care etc. This sets the foundation for each citizens well being. Of course there is unjust here and we do struggle with poverty, unemployment and much more. But the majority do live a good life and can afford to live it in a single household.
I'm a Turkish, and I just came across this channel. From what I've read the reviews, I don't think marriage is common in Sweden . In fact, as a Turk, I was surprised because this situation is not very common in Turkey. Couples who love each other in Turkey get married and start living together after marriage. It's very rare for a couple to have children without getting married. If a couple has a child without marriage, they get married right away. It's different in my culture to live together without getting married and have kids and be single forever.
My parents were married (not any longer), but both kept their last names, so people can be married and have different last names too.
Stefan several decades/centuries ago: "I grew up with a lot of these values of getting married before having sex and it's definitely a stigma around sex". Time passes, old social standards dying off!
Always very interesting to hear foreigners opinions about Sweden. Though you’re a bit less American now. 😄 However, I’ve been thinking quite a lot about the US concerning the same topics: It’s fascinating how the US is far ahead the rest of the world in science, medicine, economics and so on. But when it comes to family policy and philosophical beliefs and to realise there are different ways of living your life, USA is so far behind. We’re not in Kansa😂… I mean, we’re not in the 1950’s anymore.Wish you a happy journey in life!🤗
Sounds to me like you do understand and are well on your way to being the same 😀
Lack of religion is in some ways a defining characteristic of Sweden. I've been interested in this since I was young because I lived abroad for 6 years growing up and was exposed to more religious cultures (UK/France, so not all that religious but with international schools and many mixed cultures). Many foreign visitors on hearing this think Sweden will be actively atheist, but most Swedes just haven't thought about it all that much. If you aren't brought up with religion it tends to become irrelevant to your life. If you ask them if there is anything supernatural the figure is much higher than 20% and many have vague deist notions but do not believe in a particular religion. So Sweden lacks Religion but isn't fully Atheist.
There are also a lot of people that have been in a relationship for _ages_ and don't even live together. I'm talking over 10 years together. And I do understand why it's a functional concept for many. Scandinavians appreciate their "own" time a lot.
In the UK, marriage isn't so common nowadays. With high living expenses and few people following religion, it just doesn't sit as a high priority unless it particularly important to an individual.
Damn why did you use the iMessage notification sound for the circle I though I got a text 😫
To be independent is to be free, you can make your own decisions based on your own experiences,
ideas or wishes. Not forced to do anything because of social conventions or crap like it. That´s one
of many other reasons why Sweden is the best country in the world for you as an individual.
I think our disbelief goes way back to the age of vikings (Asatro) and the switch over to christianity in the 1300.s..In practice we where forced in to Christianity and the church behaved more like a police rather than good nice religion....This was a struggle for us and we lost trust in everything linked to christianity due to this oppression..So even marriage has never been a big thing here.....Some how the stubborn and independent viking still lurking in our brains! :)
Men oj, någon är tydligen inte förtjust i kristendomen.
Jag får nog rätta dig på några punkter här, som t ex att kristendomen slog igenom redan på 1000-talet och inte på 1300-talet.
Äktenskap med kyrkligt bröllop har också varit viktigt i många kretsar ända sedan medeltiden.
Slarv förekom på landsbygden fram till 1734, men då kom en ny lag med starkare kontroll över att folk var ordentligt gifta.
Historien är inte så enkel. Kristendomen kom på 800-talet, vilket var sent ur ett europeiskt perspektiv och slog igenom i mitten av 1000-talet. På 1100- och 1200-talet byggdes sjukt många kyrkor. Men det fanns fortfarande en viss tolerans för andra religioner. Sen kom reformationen i början av 1500-talet, så det var det andra historiska "bytet" av religion och då blev man mer intolerant och det blev värre på 1700-talet med konventikelplakatet. Tillfångatagna svenskar i Sibirien, efter det stora nordiska kriget, blev puritaner mm och var fanatiska när de till sist fick resa hem till Sverige. På 1700- och 1800-talet växte många sekter fram i hemlighet och de förföljdes. Vissa religiösa revolutionärer emigrerade med sina anhängare. Med nykterhetsrörelsen och arbetarrörelsen blev andra organisationer än religiösa viktiga och det ledde till slut till att kyrkans makt minskade och till sist fick vi skilsmässan mellan kyrkan och staten, som gjorde det möjligt att lämna kyrkan, som nu är i ekonomisk kris. Det fanns aldrig någon obruten tradition från vikingatiden. Den gamla, omstridda, nordiska mytologin (som redan Saxo på 1100-talet hävdar byggde på falska fakta, och påstår att Oden var en egocentrisk kung i Uppsala-inte en gud) är lika främmande för oss idag som många andra religioner.
Good one !
You should then compare family dynamics. Should be interesting. After living as an American Pacific Asian in Sweden for the past 5 years I’ve noticed tremendous differences in the family dynamics.
My parents are married, and have been that for at least 34 years (that's my age), it's rare. In Sweden people aren't forced into marriage like it is in different countries around the world. People can choose and decide together what to do if you have a partner that you love. Like u said many of us swedes want to enjoy life as an individual, for example travel to different places in the country or around the world. It's like Annika said, a very big decision to make.
You are right.
I'm Swedish. I moved out from my parents when I was 19 during my last year in high school. Met my husband when I was 20. We got our kids, when I was almost 25 och again when I was 27, and at the time we were not married. I was 33 when we decided to marry each other. So yes, it took 13 years of being together and living together before marriage.
Pretty much because of we have kids and a home together and for other legal reasons like if anything happens. It's all about love of each other and safety. We celebrated one year anniversary of marriage recently.
My husband's parents were never married. So we were fine without marriage for many years, but it's safer to being married which we found out legally.
Grattis till bröllopsdagen! :)
And my grandparents wasn’t married when they had their first child, in 1918. My grandfather was still married to another woman and hadn’t got a divorce. When the second child came they were married. It wasn’ t totally ok then but we live in the north of Sweden and at that time if you were engaged it was like marriage. It was often a long way to church and a priest. I got married when I was 38 years old, having all my children, and not having the same father to them all. Most of my relatives are not married. My mother is 80 years old and has been living with her partner for over 30 years after her divorce from my father. It just doesn’t matter either way. I have also kept my last name so my husband and I don’t have the same last name.
How old were you when you moved out of your parents home, Stefan? Maybe you hadn't moved to your own home before moving to Sweden? If you did move out before going here, was it in your own apartment(rent/owned?), a dorm, or what?
I'm the oldest of three brothers and my parents got married about 6 months after I was born, and that was in the 1960’s, so at least this isn't a new thing here.
Marriage makes the legal aspects easier, then you don't need a testament/papers like that except for maybe a prenup (which is pretty much only necessary if one of them has 20 million whilst the other doesn't). So I think most swedes consider marriage either necessary due to making their legal life easier or because it's traditional.
And as for the whole last name thing, you can be married even though you don't share last names.
Facts
Great video, good to know. I'm half British and Swedish
Glad you liked it :)
Interesting to see how many Swedes are interested in your videos explaining Sweden
Hi :) hope youre having some good weeks
You too!
Have just bought a ready-to-live study apartment for my youngster in the [bigger] city he's gonna start his studying in a year. He's 15 now. Not a big deal for Russia, too. Me, I left the mom's house at my 17. And was never regretting it.
Actually in France it’s quite common as well for families to have children without being married. Then for religion younger generations also tend to have less attachement to religion, very interesting video! And in my case I left also my family at age 18 to study design in Paris, France and it was the case for over 80% students in my design school.
The last time I was single, I was still living in my parents house. After being in a few shorter relationships, I met the guy who later became the father of my two daughters. We moved in together in an apartment after 3 years and 5 years after that we bought the house we live in now. When we became parents, we've been a couple for 12 years... 😁 But our 2:nd child came 1 year after the first one... 😉 We're still not married after 26 years as a couple. Both of our daughters want their parents to get married. And they're supported by my sister and my mother... 😏
I'm swedish and I moved out of my home when I was 17 🙂 I moved in with my girlfriend in her apartment (she was 16 at that time btw). My parents didn't even know that I had moved out 😂 I just called my mom and said "Hey mom! I'll be living with my GF from now on. Love you! 😘" (or something like that, I don't remember exactly what I said). And just like that I had "left the nest" forever! 😂
We were both still in high school with 2 respectively 3 years left. We didn't have a lot of money for food, but we made it work somehow (without help from our parents) 🙂.
my dad moved out from his parents when he was sixteen but he always came back home with his dirty laundry😂🤚
I always was very curious about the life in Sweeden and how different they are from Americans. But it puzzles me that they have a greater happiness index than 🇺🇸 🤔. Anyway, I really like your videos. Thank you 🌻
Doesn't puzzle me at all. We're happy chaps ups here! 😃🌟🤘
@@latjolajban81 True! 🤗
Stefan has done a clip about that ua-cam.com/video/EuxURcwLlII/v-deo.html