The CONSISTENT Laning Mistake Most Players Make

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  • Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
  • What's going on gamers!
    This week we wanted to take a look at one of the easiest itemisation mistakes to fix which will directly impact your success in games once you correct it: Component Order.
    Sit back, relax and enjoy as Phil breaks down for you how you can better navigate the earliest stages of itemisation and massively increase your chances of success. Good luck and Happy Gaming!
    You can find our full playlist of DOTA videos from various creators that explain how items and mechanics of DOTA actually work from creators like ‪@zzadrianzz‬ ‪@ZQuixotix‬ ‪@PainDota‬ and ‪@BalloonDota‬ • How DOTA 2 Actually Works
    00:00 - Intro
    00:28 - Remember Attributes give multiple benefits
    01:23 - A Common Trap for Low MMR players
    04:11 - Buying Boots of Travel is (sometimes) a mistake
    06:45 - Purchase order of Tranquil Boots ruins lanes
    07:54 - The simple question when buying Arcane Boots
    08:19 - Breaking down components of Phase Boots & Power Treads
    09:26 - Purchase order is dictated by lane matchups
    10:25 - Simplifying purchase orders
    10:58 - Component order matters at ALL stages of the game
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 171

  • @shnorkeythefourth4572
    @shnorkeythefourth4572 Місяць тому +95

    I can’t look at pipe of insight without seeing a broken masquerade mask

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +9

      Funny, I just get the smoking pipe association immediately. Interesting how our brains interpret art differently though

    • @MagnaGuy
      @MagnaGuy Місяць тому +7

      Same I thought I was the only one

    • @darkigor20
      @darkigor20 Місяць тому +7

      Oh my god someone finally said it

    • @Hosenbund1
      @Hosenbund1 Місяць тому +9

      i actually never realized until now that the picture is actually a smoking pipe.. lol
      always thought its a mask for some reason, even though it did not make sense combined with its name

    • @pikavolt100
      @pikavolt100 9 днів тому +3

      I feel seen lol. For me the wind lace also looks more like a wave in my peripheral. BKB also looks like a golden cow skull or some other bovine animal

  • @zzadrianzz
    @zzadrianzz 28 днів тому +13

    Great video and a SUPER important topic in my opinion. I definitely noticed in my Dota journey that taking the time to learn more about which starting items are good in which situations has helped my laning a lot. Great job again :]

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому +1

      That means a lot coming from you, brother. Thanks for stopping by and leaving such kind words. It's been a joy to witness your own growing success over the last couple years and has played a major role in keeping my own nose to the grind stone to find eventual success with this channel. Here's hoping the new update brings plenty of niche game mechanics for us both to sink our teeth into for the betterment of the community :) - Phil

  • @thebigthn
    @thebigthn Місяць тому +5

    Thank you so much for this content! I've been playing for a year now and been recently spamming Abaddon pos5. When I started playing him, I start with the correct items (blood gernade, branches, ect). But then I fell into a bad habit of going into lane with Ring of Basillius and no stat items. No wonder I was starting to lose my lane more. I corrected that and been getting more consistent wins in the laning stage.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Glad to hear! Blood Grenades are an essential tool to leverage in early laning! Keep it up

    • @polo619652
      @polo619652 Місяць тому +1

      Sage mask and a set of tangoes with max branches is very valuable

  • @imfinishedgrinding638
    @imfinishedgrinding638 Місяць тому +6

    As someone who has been playing a lot of str carries(usual bracer rush)and heroes not really needing a full magic wand(AM), I had no idea it was this imperative to finish assembling magic wand first on Agi, Int and Universal Carries. I've always just ship out 1 set of tangoes and finished components for a bracer/wraith band/null on the first courier ferry and ship out magic wand and boots of choice components on the next courier ferry. Very intriguing and insightful guide and I definitely learned a lot from it.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      The real answer is to itemise properly for the lane from the strategy phase but it's very common for players to itemise thinking they're playing against a certain 2 heroes only to discover that's not the case and suddenly they have to improvise based on what's already purchased. When that's the case: not enough people think to just backpack an item to get something more important active and then start combining items to make space and get everything active again from there. Glad the video helped ☺️

  • @jackmccarthy7644
    @jackmccarthy7644 Місяць тому +2

    Great video.
    One note I would add is that certain components are really great to buy early for offering later flexibility. The itemization needs of your team often change dynamically depending on how the lanes go and what the other heroes choose to build. As a support player, I'm a big fan of the casual wind lace since it builds into Tranquils, Eul's, Drums, Solar Crest which are all items you might want later in the game depending on if you need HP regen, control, burst teamfight threat, or sustain on your carry. I think Fluffy Hat is another strong item in this regard, for building into Force Staff, Pavise, and Spirit Vessel.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Very true! Casual small components (especially Wind Lace) are something that a lot of players overlook. It's something we'll eventually cover as its own separate topic once we've worked through the backlog of more major topics we have in the pipeline right now. Good to know there's a healthy dose of players ahead of the curve in that regard :)

    • @jackmccarthy7644
      @jackmccarthy7644 Місяць тому

      @@beneaththeveil I hope you do more videos on item ordering too! One that I particularly struggle with is Glimmer Cape since both Shadow Amulet and Cloak are strong individually and I'm often unsure which I should purchase first.
      Other good candidates would be Khanda (Crystalys vs. Phylactory first), Force Pike (Force Staff vs. Dragon Lance first), and any of the KSY swords.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      @@jackmccarthy7644 Now that we've addressed the concept, it's something that we can look to more in depth when doing dedicated item videos. At the moment we're working through items which also have a tonne of hero skills that do the same thing but Glimmer Cape is one we want to cover for sure. Too many people we see throwing games by buying Shadow Blade when really they should be buying Glimmer Cape instead. Will put it on the list just for you :)

  • @DegenerateDota
    @DegenerateDota Місяць тому +4

    Thank you for bringing up the point about TP boots! I've tried to explain this to my friends many times!

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +1

      Any time! It's a common set of issues we've seen and it always makes us sad to see play out

    • @manuelquerochang2275
      @manuelquerochang2275 Місяць тому

      I really hope did your Friends know english, mine are stuck at the lowest rank and they are not able to take any advice.
      I I really wish that at anytime in the future they understand all the information in the video.
      We speak spanish and they don't believe that My tips are usefull for them

    • @polo619652
      @polo619652 Місяць тому

      I see necros get BoT rush on a team without catch or quick kill threat and I always cringe inside

    • @carlangeldemon
      @carlangeldemon 3 дні тому

      Yes, thank you as someone who used to play necro mid rushing boots who travels to lane just to farm and shove it, not great of an impact for a rush item.

  • @pi-2627
    @pi-2627 2 дні тому

    Just a note about visual design; at 10:30 I initially read the text as three columns, top to bottom not left to right. I would imagine that some other viewers may have read it the same way and also would have been confused. Great video regardless

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  2 дні тому

      Yes, someone else said the same thing. In hindsight we could have definitely made things a bit clearer with just a few more visual choices to create separation

  • @cmanatlan
    @cmanatlan Місяць тому +2

    On strength heroes, like a lot of offlaners, playing from behind to finish bkb, I feel like the ogre club is much more value than the mithril hammer. The dmg/gold is the same and you also get 180 HP. Not to mention you get the stat boost a whole 600 gold earlier. But on a carry who is afk farming until they have the whole bkb then your reasoning makes sense.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      We did make a note on it, but didn't want to talk about it too in depth as it wasn't the main focal point of the video. You're certainly on the right track with your logic there :)

  • @trashpanda999
    @trashpanda999 Місяць тому

    Great video! I can see the effort you made. I've always wondered when watching the pros choose their shoes, especially supports. Why do they go tranquil early, why phase boots, even sometimes I see brown boots 40 mins into the game. This video gave me a slight idea about it.

  • @Nostalgia---7777
    @Nostalgia---7777 Місяць тому +1

    i notice the B.O.T strat when i was climbing in ancient i was like "wait a minute i got low cooldown i can help the team while killing and having a map presence" and some games it made it easier and some games when you get stomped you just go and adjust

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Exactly. It's a great "win harder" item but it can be very difficult to find value with when you're on the back foot

  • @vatskiysas
    @vatskiysas 28 днів тому

    Love your videos! Very interesting to watch, very informative. Makes you think where you could be better

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому +1

      Glad you think so! Improvement comes from focus on oneself and what they can change, rather than looking at everyone else and pointing out what they did wrong :)

  • @PositivelyHazo
    @PositivelyHazo Місяць тому +1

    Loving the content so far, a well deserved sub. Best of luck with the channel

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Much appreciated! Glad it's serving you well. Thank you for the kind words and wishes

  • @Nerot_kama
    @Nerot_kama Місяць тому

    u sure loving what you are doing, dang doing something like this . requires effort! GJ

  • @FactorialGhost
    @FactorialGhost Місяць тому

    Started playing Rank more consistently after years of on and off playing. The Nullifier vid helped me on a couple of matches. Got out of Herald and currently 70% to Guardian 2. Love the vids and the format. Playing All Roles in the Queque. Idk which one to focus on.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      If you're having success and climbing playing all roles then feel free to continue doing so! When you get to the point that you stop consistently winning and climbing: that's the point to start analysing which role you have the most impact in and starting to focus on that role in particular: or you can pick the role you most enjoy playing and learn to improve your impact from that position.
      As a fellow all role queuer: I don't blame you for liking the versatility that comes with playing everything ☺️

    • @FactorialGhost
      @FactorialGhost Місяць тому

      @beneaththeveil
      TY
      I like a lot of heroes so playing one role all the time seems boring. I have like 2 or 3 heroes I like playing per role. Definitely my weakest has to be mid. I just default to playing Zeus or Pudge there.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +1

      @@FactorialGhost if you like a challenge, learn Meepo for mid. He can end reasonably fast and solo carry if you have a good start in lane and know how to micro. TA can also be good to play from mid in the right games but she's a bit weak in the current meta. Leshrac is also a good pusher and can play tempo or go late game if you like your spellcasters in mid. Learn how to set up your own stun off the back of a Eul's Sceptre Cyclone spell and you'll be cooking 🍳

  • @braverzero3709
    @braverzero3709 Місяць тому

    Great vid and lots of good tips. Absolutely loved the stick discussion. I usually start with the stick specifically to maximize the time I will be potentially gaining charges. It's the worst when you get to 10 charges before you've finished your wand XD
    4:25 Correction on the Boots of Travel - you DO still need to buy TP scrolls, no? Are you thinking of the old school BoTs that existed before the TP scroll slot when TP's used to take up an item slot? I'm confident you still need to buy them but now questioning things

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +1

      Glad you enjoyed the stick discussion. The real fix to the problem is actually itemise for your lane correctly and start with a Stick in lanes where you need one off rip: but low elo players don't always recognise when they need one from the start and itemise for non-stick lanes, then suddenly try and do a 180.
      Regarding your correction: not sure if that's how it used to be in the past but you actually don't need to buy additional TPs once you have Boots of Travel. So long as you have a single TP scroll in your inventory. If you have no TP scrolls available when you buy Boots of Travel and get them delivered then you may need to still buy one? But if you have them in your inventory already then you're good to go. If you have multiple charges available the game automatically sells your excess charges so you get a little refund (though not sure if it's a full refund - that would be a nightmare to test and we can't be bothered lol)

  • @VongolaSekundes
    @VongolaSekundes 21 годину тому

    Thanks great video even tho i've already knew all these. Any chance you could do item choices for carry in various different match ups? this is a struggle for me

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  20 годин тому

      We've got a fair few videos specifically on items planned out for a little while but after that for sure ☺️ itemisation is always a touch and go thing as it varies with the meta but we can try our best

  • @lancea1202
    @lancea1202 Місяць тому

    Very educational video. This definitely will help those like me in the lower mmr brackets.

  • @BlueFlash215
    @BlueFlash215 28 днів тому +1

    When playing Necro (especially when 7.35 dropped) it was best to rush BoT. After completing 1 Bracer. With basically unlimited health reg and mana you could farm the big map and when Ulti was off CD you could go for a gank.
    Plus it's a hero with one of the slowest movespeed. Later a heart than aghas was a free win. I almost had 75% Winrate during that time.
    A second Bracer was useful when you were offlane and not mid.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому +1

      When the patch was new and no-one had any idea what was going on it was relatively easy to win your lane and then snowball with Travels which is expected. Travels is a win harder item. The biggest issue is Necro players who fall behind them go Travels and have no impact. The gold investment gives them nothing except a way to KS on a super long cooldown.

    • @BlueFlash215
      @BlueFlash215 28 днів тому

      @@beneaththeveil that's true.
      He was heavely needed though. I play as 3-5 stacked team comps and the damage output I had at the end due to Stacks were insane. Looking back at dotabuff games the numbers are crazy. He slowly got nerfed plus people started picking AA (which you can't ban for sure anymore).
      I even got my stacks up with illusion kills.

  • @gameodyssey24
    @gameodyssey24 6 днів тому

    Good information and thanks for this video👍

  • @tuvarkz9324
    @tuvarkz9324 Місяць тому

    There's some games as pos1 where either grabbing 3 runes or getting an early kill/assist means I sometimes start lane 1/2 CS away from being able to ship in both bracer/wraith band recipe and magic wand, isn't it better at that point to delay wand by likely 10 secs tops and get the upgraded regen+damage/armor+AS early rather than delay whatever amount of seconds it takes for the non-upgraded courier to waddle back to fountain then back with the bracer recipe?

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Fair question! The best answer is to actually start the lane with the correct items and already have a Stick if it's a lane which requires one, but we talked about this situation as an example since a lot of players don't itemise correctly for the lane and then have to improvise as soon as they realise. In the case of Bracer it's probably the better option if the enemy aren't going to cast that many spells right at the start of lane, so you get the benefit of the extra damage which widens the window of when you can hit a creep to secure that CS; however the extra attack speed and armour of Wraith Band doesn't really help all that much in early laning since they don't help alter your damage numbers to make CS easier, they just increase your attack speed slightly so your projectile travels faster or your melee animation is a touch quicker. In that case it's far better to gain access to the healing potential of Stick.

  • @PeterBang-jk3ux
    @PeterBang-jk3ux 4 дні тому

    really good video, but it can be really benefitial to sometimes buy gloves of haste first, on heroes with high base dmg in lanes you are dominating. you can basically secure every deny vs e.g. a gyrocopter if you get gloves of haste on a lot of offlaners.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  4 дні тому

      Excellent point! There's an exception to every rule :)
      This video was mainly getting players to stop autopiloting purchases left to right on their quickbuy and actually start actively making choices about the components they're buying and what order they're purchasing them in!

  • @Novita4498
    @Novita4498 Місяць тому

    @0:38 I love the 3D attribute icons 👌

  • @BlueFlash215
    @BlueFlash215 28 днів тому

    I wish there was a lategame option for PT. When all Lanes are pushed you have to switch back and forth from BoT to PT or abandon PT all together for a good 6th slot.
    It's such a mighty item early and mid and falls off so hard. The toggle becomes meaningless due to high regen. Adding something like an ultimate orb to it to it + a recipe making the PT
    +30 to all stats as well a the option to teleport to your own fountain (so not aggressive just defensive) would be great.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому

      There's been an upgrade for PTs as well as Phases in the back end for a good while now based on leaks from pre-New Frontiers. It may well be introduced in this patch.

  • @mysteryguitarhaziq
    @mysteryguitarhaziq Місяць тому +1

    Heres an idea, Dont get both circlet and primary stat +3 item. Instead buy either and rush your 1st item along with the wand + Up'ed boots. If you're really cheap, Hold on to stick and power out all the way till 1st item

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      The reason we couldn't show any example of an Immortal player doing what we were talking about is because of exactly this: they itemise correctly for the lane from the strategy phase.
      A Drow Ranger for example will start with tangoes, circlet, 3 branches and a Stick, then proceed to go Wraith Band first as the bump in armor early on does help with some of the harass the enemy pos 4 will usually put on to you. We wanted to talk about what to do in the situation where players itemise for the lane incorrectly and then don't realise until they get to the lane and have to improvise - making the most out of a bad situation. You're completely right though! Get your itemisation right from the very start and you avoid a lot of unnecessary headaches

  • @AngusX42
    @AngusX42 Місяць тому

    Small feedback on layout of build orders:
    I initially interpreted the grid of 9 as 3 columns (instead of the intended 3 rows) ie top to bottom is the build order and left to right is preference; my intuition was so strong on this that I even thought there was typos (ie damage written twice instead of damage, other) rather than recognising the intended pattern for quite some time.
    Solution space is large... one suggestion I think might help: highlight whatever you are verbally referencing on screen.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Appreciate the feedback!
      In hindsight we could have definitely made the line spacing much larger during that section so there was more of a separation between each line of text. In addition we could have made a little arrow instead of the dashes ( -> instead of just - ) to naturally guide the viewers eye left to right so they inherently understood how to interpret the information we were presenting. Totally agree we could have highlighted the information better as well - the GPU we were using was struggling a bit to render everything towards the end of the video so we decided to chill out on some of the motion graphics elements to give the hardware some room to breathe. We're continually looking into what we can do during production to make things easier for not only us and our viewers, but our hardware as well so it's something we'll fine tune over time as we look to continually improve our production practices :)

  • @NastmarMorgenroth
    @NastmarMorgenroth 2 дні тому

    "Use Your judgment". Meanwhile most players I meet in the game "No damage, no good"

  • @carlangeldemon
    @carlangeldemon 3 дні тому

    As a support player I always prioritize buying magic wand over boots(when the lane enemy hero has spammable skills), but now I guess I should think over if I will upgrade it 1st to magic wand or buy the boots. As a carry player I always rush boots 😭 easy to harrass, easy to disengaged, easy to go to camp, they cant kill you if then cant chase you but as always this video made some insights to not rush brown boots. Thanks

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  3 дні тому +1

      Happy to help! It's always worthwhile to think about

  • @suntzu6122
    @suntzu6122 Місяць тому +15

    Tranq boots are one of the biggest trap items for new players. Up there with dagon.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +11

      Respectfully disagree. Have won countless games with only Tranquil Boots and upgrading to Boots of Bearing when the draft allows the team to play on tempo and end the game quickly. It's much harder in the current meta since games tend to go long and high ground can be difficult to break; but Tranquil Boots enable many melee supports especially to aggressively trade in early laning then disengage and regenerate HP faster than their opponents. That doesn't even touch on the potency of roaming between lanes more quickly.

    • @suntzu6122
      @suntzu6122 Місяць тому +2

      @@beneaththeveil Def hear you on the boots of bearing. I was mostly talking about people who I see buying tranq boots instead of regen items in early game lols. Then NEVER upgrading it.
      When they dont upgrade it, my thought is its not good because simply other things are better most of the time.
      Most of the time Id rather have Boots + Bracer. Or wind lace + 2x Bracer. Substitute null talisman sometimes.
      I almost never get that item, personally. Unless Im 100% sure I need boots of bearing like you said.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      @@suntzu6122 with that context I can see why you made your initial statement the way you did. You could make the same argument about Arcanes since some heroes still need the odd clarity/mango to top up their mana through early/mid game due to burning through so much mana you know? There's very rarely a single item in the early game that will outright fix early game regen issues. When we're eventually through all the mechanics based videos we've got in the pipeline one of the things we want to highlight is how many low elo players just simply don't buy enough regen. The amount of people I see buy a single set of tangoes and no other regen whatsoever makes me want to flip tables lol

    • @curtroll
      @curtroll Місяць тому +2

      Tranq boots rush broken for melee support in early lane....IF player knows how to abuse the disassemble mechanic. Quite simple: have boots disassembled + full health..... Engage in heavy trading...disengage and immediately unlock combining when out of attack range= 9 seconds of instantaneous heal. Disassemble boots just before time is up and go trade again. Basically a free tango every 20 seconds

    • @SkylerEvansAK
      @SkylerEvansAK Місяць тому +1

      ​@suntzu6122 It depends on the hero. I still run tranqs on bounty hunter, because it helps when roaming from lane to lane and to heal back to full between ganks. Very useful when in those early/mid roaming parts of the game.

  • @Rectanglesful
    @Rectanglesful 29 днів тому

    I love this numbers based approach to strategy thank you

  • @karnbrar555
    @karnbrar555 Місяць тому

    Nice video man, keep up the good work!

  • @avocadoarmadillo7031
    @avocadoarmadillo7031 4 дні тому

    As a universal hero I usually build Wand + faerie fire + blood grenade to start out with, and Amazon Prime a tango after bounty runes. As a melee hero I get tango, quelling blade, mango or faerie fire depending on hero, stat components, blood grenade.
    I like the iron branches, however I prefer blood grenade.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  4 дні тому

      Totally fair. Am personal to 2x circlets, 2x branches, tangoes and either Quelling, third branch or a faerie fire depending on the hero but your wand build is pretty slick too if it's a good lane to start with Stick/Wand

  • @ne6548
    @ne6548 Місяць тому

    i love this kind of dota contents. you just got yourself a sub

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Glad to hear! Welcome aboard and thanks for joining!

  • @Ysppp
    @Ysppp 8 днів тому

    how about choosing which items to sell/replace, for example, i play centa with 1 boots, 2 bracers, wand, blademail, and blink, then i need to make room for my next item in this case shiva or shroud. which should i sell? bracer or wand?

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  8 днів тому

      Wand is usually the first item you sell to make room for bigger items, but there are always exceptions to the rule. If you quickly hit 20 charges in every skirmish and are continuing to find value out of spamming Wand for for the 300 HP and Mana burst heal from 20 charges: then it's worth keeping the Wand and selling a Bracer. In most cases though, the enemy might only give you 8-10 charges in a teamfight and in that case the 150 HP burst heal isn't as good as the 10 Strength from the Bracer post 25 minutes which gives you 220 HP. Hope this helps give some insight :)

  • @shnorkeythefourth4572
    @shnorkeythefourth4572 Місяць тому

    I like playing turbo mostly and I find a lot more usage with arcane boots on most str pos 3 heroes so I can spam their abilities more. Usually centaur or axe. I also have the ability to upgrade to greaves for a dispel if I need it but I usually just get tp boots
    It used to be even better when you could dismantle arcane boots so it’s definitely less excusable but I still like it

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      There's use cases for all items for sure. The upgrade into Guardian Greaves for the Dispel utility as well as the burst heal is super nice as well :)

    • @shnorkeythefourth4572
      @shnorkeythefourth4572 Місяць тому

      @@beneaththeveil typically I play either tanks or Carries so my go to dispels are lotus orb or either manta/disperser depending on the carry I’m playing
      I also forget satanic has a dispel

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Yeah! There's 8 different at-will self dispel items currently in the game. We're spoiled for choice

  • @wowcplayer3
    @wowcplayer3 7 днів тому

    I would've appreciated a joke about huskar when mentioning the timing of buying bracers

  • @soldieroftruth77
    @soldieroftruth77 22 дні тому

    1:45 something that’s not clear here.. are you saying it would have been better to come out to the lane with the stick/wand, or just that you need to rush it after you get to lane, if needed?

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  22 дні тому

      Excellent question! Indeed, if you need a Stick at the start of the game, then you should be starting with one. A meta starting item build for Drow Ranger playing into a Bristleback or Timbersaw offlane for example is: Tango, Circlet, Stick and 3 branches :)
      We made this section because a lot of players consistently start their game with the wrong items for the lane matchup and then try to make the most of a bad situation but don't quite get the ordering right. We wanted to help them in particular rather than just tell them what the correct starting items are as sometimes you get a starting item setup based on a guess of what you're playing into and then you guess wrong because the enemy are playing something off meta

  • @calebschutter176
    @calebschutter176 День тому

    That was awesome thank you.

  • @ElJA3III
    @ElJA3III Місяць тому

    This is an AMAZING break down! Thank you for the hard work and content! This is something ALL newbs should watch!

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching :)

  • @joshuamartin9687
    @joshuamartin9687 14 днів тому

    I appreciate the information provided

  • @jayrodriguez439
    @jayrodriguez439 29 днів тому

    the most suffering i have is when playing support and a fcking carries chooses to skip treads wand, bracers, band, talisman. They really fck up in lane if you try to assist mid and sideline. then blame you for dying because they have no boots.

  • @RaiderKnight08
    @RaiderKnight08 Місяць тому +1

    This necrophos + boots of travel thing is so true.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      We see it all the time and it's enraging to say the least

  • @kiupeka
    @kiupeka Місяць тому

    Hey! great contents of the video, great explaination, all I wanna point out, in my opinion and I think it might be helpful for your video format, try reducing the ammount of text, if you are already saying the whole sentece, like it can get distracting and tireing because i suppose we instictualy tend to read along and we pretty much combine our voices with your voice and sort of make a clutter in our heads ( I might be the only one here, if anyone else feels the same let's give positive feedback! )The most "agressive" you've used the text was between 5:37 and 6:32 it's almost a minute full of slideshows, which can be overwhelming for some viewers to have to look at the same type of format for too long, I don't have a statistic of how long is the attention span of Dota players, but I doubt is that big haha. Maybe you can implement a bit more footage in between, or short example clips such as *Necro travel TP CD 3-2-1 while ult is 52-51-50 as for example , something highlighting the two Coldowns. Anyway, the way you present and talk is certainly great and not boring, this is why the algorithm boosted your channel after all! Keep it up!

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Appreciate the feedback! When we started out we had a lot of people saying they couldn't understand what Phil was saying so we were pretty heavy handed with text elements. Things have been getting better so we've been scaling things back now but we're still clearly a bit too heavy handed - appreciate the critique. We'll keep pulling back on the text elements and use more video and graphics based material instead :)
      Glad you found value out of the video despite that

  • @Jakob.Hamburg
    @Jakob.Hamburg 18 днів тому

    Another nice guide from you.

  • @yoloboi9489
    @yoloboi9489 Місяць тому

    The mithril hammer 1st for bkb is so insightful. Most players just build ogre axe 1st which doesnt do anything until u get a bkb.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Totally agree. On a semantic level: there's value for Strength and Universal heroes in getting the Ogre Axe first for the extra HP and HP regen if they still want to brawl on their way to getting BKB and don't mind the slight sacrifice in damage: but for Agility and Intelligence heroes it's a no brainer to go Mithril Hammer every time. A lot of players just see they have 1k gold and instantly purchase the Ogre Axe without really thinking about what they're getting out of the investment.

  • @pascaldenize7546
    @pascaldenize7546 Місяць тому

    Great video. This magic wand mistake is 🤯

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Thank you! Glad to hear you learned something new :)

  • @dobrynskyxd5834
    @dobrynskyxd5834 Місяць тому +4

    These videos are excellent, thanks

    • @dobrynskyxd5834
      @dobrynskyxd5834 Місяць тому

      as a new player, would love to see a deep dive like this about bkb. When to buy or not to, most efficient usage etc

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Glad you like them! You're very welcome!

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      We will definitely touch on debuff immunity! Since it's only been in the game for just over a year now, we're knocking out a few of the more established and unchanged mechanics just in case Valve decide to rework BKB again

  • @grenadedFalafel
    @grenadedFalafel Місяць тому

    Great video! keep up the good work!

  • @meloy9272
    @meloy9272 26 днів тому

    your teachings may be the key for me to break the chain of crusader HAHAHAHAHA

  • @Papiness
    @Papiness Місяць тому

    stick takes skill & knowledge tho to know if you can force them to dish out spells without you just dying

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      True, we have a whole video on heroes that buying a stick in lane is good against. You should watch it if you haven't already :)

  • @anndrey93ify
    @anndrey93ify 29 днів тому

    Magic want is such a bad item from carry perspective.
    Keep it with stick no matter what because 1 branch is 50 gold and the Wand recipe is 150 gold. so 3 branches are 150 gold and Wand recipe is 150 gold in 100% theory you spend 150 gold for just a +1 stat! Here is the catch, depends on the game you will sell Wand pretty soon so the investment is meh until you lane against a Bristel or Bat or anything similar that spams spells like no day other.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  29 днів тому

      Getting to heal 300 HP and mana for free is incredible value, plus you get the value of freeing up two slots. You have to think of the wider value, not just the raw stats

  • @baiedatv7010
    @baiedatv7010 Місяць тому

    Will try this herald 2 here haha

  • @novy1198
    @novy1198 28 днів тому

    i started like a month or two ago so i have only about 150 hours in dota but never thought about doing magic wand later, this item just look busted especially in early, i even carry it till mid or later if i dont have any better option

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому

      Welcome, my friend: to the minority. I usually have to beg people to buy Magic Wands in general. It's excellent you're so early on in your DOTA journey and yet already understand just how strong it is. There's definite merit to delaying it at times, but in general if you're hitting max stacks without needing to pop the heal it's worth upgrading sooner rather than later.

    • @novy1198
      @novy1198 28 днів тому

      @@beneaththeveil i played league for years before i switched to dota so i might just be more conscious about items and what they do

    • @novy1198
      @novy1198 28 днів тому

      i usually sell magic wand after i have like 2/3 items cause in this moment the bonuses arent that big of a difference

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  27 днів тому

      @@novy1198 that makes sense! You're on the right track re: time to sell it. If you have Dota+ you can see how much Wand heals you for each game. Most of the time the numbers sit around 1-2k

    • @novy1198
      @novy1198 27 днів тому

      ​@@beneaththeveil ye i bought dota + on the start just to have some help with what to do and i did my own characters layout for dif roles but thats pretty much it, i dont think dota + actually gives you something important in the longterm so i prefer to buy skins for example than this

  • @MegaMiquelon
    @MegaMiquelon Місяць тому

    Sir, this lessons require players to have the ability to think, and that's asking a lot from many dota players.... jokes aside, great video actually. Sadly real dota lessons like this won't ever get more views than meme videos.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      Thank you! We have faith that there's enough of an audience out there that can apply some critical thinking, they just aren't given all the information from Valve in order to fully utilise it - that's what we're aiming to do.
      We're sure that if we stick on the path that we're on, we'll soon pass many of the accounts that you speak of who rely on gimmicks rather than solid fundamental game understanding :)

  • @rmac02
    @rmac02 Місяць тому

    This is a great video dude

  • @RoboMuskVsLizardZuckerberg
    @RoboMuskVsLizardZuckerberg Місяць тому

    What happened to point booster on archane boots?
    I need to reinstall Dota2

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      Arcane Boots were reworked in the New Frontiers update over a year ago ☺️

  • @jespersamuelsonmonkeygiga
    @jespersamuelsonmonkeygiga 24 дні тому

    Is this why techies is op rn? Extra spot in the backpack! 😮

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  24 дні тому

      Yes sir! 7.36 is insane efficiency for Techies. Being a Universal hero, Techies benefits from all slots simultaneously so at the most simple itemisation level you could theoretically have 9 iron branches at once giving him 18.9 base damage for 450g.

  • @gideonsaputra3677
    @gideonsaputra3677 Місяць тому

    You've got +1 new subscribers

  • @icata12345
    @icata12345 26 днів тому

    Anyone noticed you can't force staff away from slark leash anymore??

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  26 днів тому

      Yes. The only thing pertaining specifically to Leash in the patch notes was Mars' Bulwark soldiers no longer knocking enemies out of leashes. Do wonder if this change unintentionally altered the behaviour of all ways to break leashes.

    • @icata12345
      @icata12345 26 днів тому

      @@beneaththeveil As a suppport main i dont really like that atm xD

  • @Sushichese
    @Sushichese Місяць тому

    thanks

  • @Quadwert
    @Quadwert Місяць тому

    what is low mmr for you

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +1

      Great question. This is an issue that we see happening pretty much right up to and including Ancient ranks and then by the point players hit Divine they're usually itemizing optimally. Most of the replays we review are between Guardian and Legend

  • @lucubanget7265
    @lucubanget7265 28 днів тому

    Magic wand + 3 iron branch is worth it 😂

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому

      You free up 2 item slots and double the potential healing you can give yourself for free for the rest of the game until the point you're on to your 4th/5th major item. Yes, it's worth the 150g investment

  • @anurag7573
    @anurag7573 Місяць тому

    Your content is the God's gift to us dota newbies!

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +1

      Glad to be of help :) If there's anything you ever need clarification on or other mechanics that you'd like us to explain in future videos we're always listening to the growing community and are adding those ideas to our list for future videos

  • @shookxiv
    @shookxiv Місяць тому

    blood grenade is the way

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому

      If I could insert GIFs in comments sections just know I'd put the Jack Nicholson nodding one here

  • @SatraKien
    @SatraKien Місяць тому

    Really good video

  • @mohammadsajadi1821
    @mohammadsajadi1821 Місяць тому

    my favorite dota2 content ❤❤❤

  • @user-wk3tx9ng7p
    @user-wk3tx9ng7p 8 днів тому

    does this need thousands of hours of playing? just started playing the game 2 weeks ago

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  8 днів тому

      It's a game that is constantly evolving. So even players with 15,000 hours are still learning how to play the game. It's part of the appeal :)

  • @zhahan9839
    @zhahan9839 28 днів тому

    11:49 Hammer gives 24 damage

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  27 днів тому

      Yes, this video was released before 7.36. the damage is higher now :)

    • @zhahan9839
      @zhahan9839 27 днів тому

      @@beneaththeveil haha, Hammer always gave 24 damage, mate :D

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  27 днів тому +1

      Oh really? We must have butchered the numbers. Even so, better than Ogre Axe for GPM

  • @gabriellelingatong9765
    @gabriellelingatong9765 28 днів тому

    I reached immortal without doing this. It really depends on how you itemize and adjust the flow of the game.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  28 днів тому +2

      For some players raw mechanical skill can do a lot of heavy lifting for them for sure. Totally agree that itemisation at all stages of the game is a major key to success.

  • @eversonllanzana5963
    @eversonllanzana5963 Місяць тому +3

    Is this AI narration?

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +3

      Nope ☺️ Just a New Zealand accent

    • @eversonllanzana5963
      @eversonllanzana5963 Місяць тому +2

      @@beneaththeveil Okay. Hard to tell tbh. Great vid btw.

    • @beneaththeveil
      @beneaththeveil  Місяць тому +2

      @@eversonllanzana5963 thank you ☺️

  • @elwonochi9892
    @elwonochi9892 Місяць тому

    first