a 'as soon as I can find an intelligence organization with enough resources to create a deadly virus to changelings Ima do it. And I'll hope I can take pleasure in seeing THIS one deteriorate before my eyes in pain.' look. My new head canon is Garak helped S31 with the virus. It would be right up his bussard collector.
He's phenomenal, but Jeffery Combs is the GOAT. If that man hasn't gotten a Guinness World Record for most time in a make-up chair, he deserves at least some accolades for his 10 plus credits, as well as playing two different characters in one episode. DS9: Brunt Wayoun Voyager: Random alien they encounter Enterprise: The Andorian Shrax Lower Decks: Plays a genocidal computer
@@landonletterman831 oh, Jeffrey Combs is a brilliant actor in everything I've seen him in. Remember when he was Weyoun 6 (the "good" Weyoun) and he woke up from a nightmare while in a runabout with Odo? I've never seen a better dramatic representation of "waking up in a panic".
I really love how Salome Jems played the role of The Founder. It would be easy to ham up the "genocidal maniac" interpretation many would find in such a character. But this is a very realistic portrayal of those Authoritarian Leaders who ordered mass murder and genocide like it was room service. While most people think of the raging dictator making grandiose speeches, the truth is a lot of these people tended to think it nothing more than just another industrial enterprise. The lack of emotion, due to zero empathy. The liquidation of all solids that don't comply is nothing more than "Risk Management" and "Pest Removal"... You could substitute the whole "They're solids" line with many other races/religions/political and social groups throughout history that have suffered the same fate at the hands of such people...
@@blazeelvirafirehoof7844 Hitler was on the raging megalomaniacal with speeches side, though. Easy to identify. *Most* people who would command such atrocities would feel next to no passion or excitement or sorrow in doing so. _It'd be casual._ Like it makes no difference. Weird analogy on my part, but Hitler was like Joffrey "Baratheon", whereas most genocidal generals (including the Founder) would be like Tywin Lannister.
Moments like this make DS9 the most cinematic of all Trek series. There are moments in this series that feel like this epic film waiting to jump out and be told in one big sequence.
@@adammclaughlin845 I was more incensed both by how bored I was, and how not-Trek it felt. At its best, STO is a fun romp through fanservice town, but its stories and characters leave a lot to be desired.
0:35 his first expression is fear, his second expression seems like he wants to make a snappy retort, and his third is almost admiration of how terrible she is and deciding that he will have to kill her. Lastly, he compartmentalized it all within just a second.
*Things the Founder is lying about:* There were no Cardassian survivors. *Things the Founder is not lying about:* They're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead. [if the Founders have their way.]
And if we use the logic of the Founder.. Garak would have had every right to do what he initially planned to do. in retrospect.. Worf should have allowed him to do it.
well since there was attempted genocide on the foudners, the dominion had every right to say that, she did keep that promise that cardassia would be dead, cause 800million dead later on.
Perhaps, but Garak doesn't have the right to use a Federation starship to exact his revenge. If Worf had allowed him to use the Defiant's weapons, it would be considered an act of war by the Federation. Also, do you really want to kill the Founders and have the Jem'Hadar run amok without any controls? At this point in the story, the Federation was still looking to peacefully coexist with the Dominion.
@@PoppaCYS , thank you for logical points. When you have a steady supply of anything to placate a ready violent force, any attempt to cut off that supply will be seen as evil and demonized by.... I will just leave that there. The problem is that "peaceful coexistence" only came when the Founders were deprived of their "false gods" status.. no matter how fleeting that was.
That’s a bit harsh, considering that the Founders intentionally tricked the Cardassians and Romulans into attacking their home world so that they could wipe out the Obsidian Order and cripple the Tal Shiar. They even had a Founder in the Tal Shiar during that attack.
@@richardlahan7068 Because the Founders were playing the Romulans. I've always had a mental image of the trap going off and you look up from your console and half your 'crew' just walks off and teleports away with no explanation. "Wait, what just happened?"
It didn't matter to her that much. Founders see all solids as beneath them. That one species had the sheer audacity to attack them all but confirmed all their prejudices and made them even more angry and paranoid.
4 роки тому+11
The founder in this video more than likely knows the lengths Garak went to in order to save Odo, because the founder that Infiltrated the Tal Shiar noticed and aided in their escape. This is likely the only reason Garak survives this particular encounter.
Broken Link is hard to watch because of how arrogant and intolerable the Founder is, along with her enslaved Jem'Hadar. I absolutely understood Garak's logic to annihilate them... to save everyone else.
It's a good job that the Federation never even thought of mounting an attack against the Founders directly (at least not until Section 31 got involved) it portrays the Dominion as being the aggressors when the Federation were only trying to defend themselves. The same cannot be said for the Cardassians nor the Romulans here, however.
Perhaps, but one could argue that the Founders were 100% justified in their attacks. Cardassia and Romulus tried to exterminate them, and then the Federation (section 31) infected with the mutagenic virus. Compared to those acts of genocide, the founders were at least no worse.
@@nunya3163 All of that attacks were actually planed and executed by the dominion to have an excuse to attack, because for some reason, they needed one. Section 31 was just the smartest of them all because they do something unexpected that not even the founders could predict. Since the dominion were actually planning a massive genocide of galactic scale much before anyone attacked them, no, you are totally wrong and previous comment was totally right. Founders are an evil that must be destroyed to preserve all life in the galaxy.
Since basically it was a ruse to have an excuse to attack, and since that attack was not only planned, but orchestrated since the first moment the dominion arrived, and since basically their plan was to kill or enslave everyone on the galaxy besides them, I say a preemtive strike to exterminate the founders and cripple the dominion it's more that justificated. It's necesary. I mean, does anyone will have empathy for the BORG if we find a way to exterminate their hive mind and cripple them? It's basically the same. Same kind of threat same kind of answer.
The Dominion engineered that attack so I don't think they get that excuse. That's like goading someone into hitting you and then later using that to justify pushing them down the stairs.
Excellent foreshadowing. The Dominion had always wanted to destroy Cardassia. My headcanon is that Damar was deliberately pushed to start the rebellion to give the Dominion a pretense for a counterattack, but the rebellion wasn't the reason for that attack.
I don’t see that. The Founder was angry, and Weyoun was shocked when the rebellion started. Neither of them really took the time to understand Cardassians on more than a superficial level, so neither of them were able to see how inevitable Damar’s rebellion really was.
@@icecreamdf5259 Cardassia was never going to be at the forefront after the war if the Dominion had won. The Dominion were going to take all the federation, Klingon and romulan space. The breen were going to be given much of cardassian space to boot. The only purpose of Cardassia was to provide the Dominion a foothold as they were the only available option.
@@freddybigs10 No one was meant to profit but the Dominion, not even the Breen. After all, as the Founder said, "I would have offered them the entire Alpha Quadrant if meant winning this war." Offered, never give as they plan to betray them and conquer the Breen, or at least make them a vassal state within the Dominion. Though I believe the Founder was planning to eradicate the Cardassians the moment she could and decided if they were going to lose, she kills as many Cardassians as possible.
The Founders just thought of Cardassia as another planet under their control and the Cardassians as just disposable cannon fodder whose lives they could casually throw away, just like the Jem'Hadar and Vorta, especially once the Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance started gaining momentum and the Cardassians proved not to be up to the task of winning the war. When they didn't turn out to be perfect little obediant servants the Founders punished them by bombing their population centers.
@@freddybigs10 If you amend that statement by taking out the Breen from the equation then I'd agree. It really did seem like the Dominion never connected with the Breen enough to consider them in the beginning until the middle of the war.
That moment, more than any other, fundamentally changed Garak. From then on, he did everything in his power to defeat the dominion, even, by his own anguish, helping the federation kill cardassians, because of that very moment. One of the rare moments Garak is beside himself in shock that someone this evil exists, and considering this is Garak we're talking about, that's quite a feat.
i don't think he is shocked at how evil or dark they are he is a near sociopathic assassin and his father ran one of the most brutal spy networks in the alpha quadrant his issue is in this moment from her attitude and outburst he recognises she is 1 lying about there being no survivors and 2 also grasps that the moment they lost that first attack in the nebula the founders decided cardassia and romulus was getting genocided first once they won the alpha quadrant this moment is garak realising they cannot be allowed to win if he wants cardassia to survive long enough for him to return home it's him grasping her intentions.
He doesn't give a flying monkey's rear that she's evil. What he does care about is the fact she is an _enemy._ She has made it abundantly clear that there are only two possible outcomes: his people or her. There's no peace between them the way the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, and his people tolerate each other. He's not shocked at her evil. He's shocked that she is so brazen and willing to openly admit her intentions. She doesn't care what anyone thinks about her. She doesn't fear consequences. This is a person who is accustom to absolute power and worship. She has no moral compass; survival is her only driving thought. So there's only one choice for Garek: she and the other Founders have to die so that Cardassia can survive. In a way, he's glad that he doesn't have to figure out where they stand, but it means he's going to give _anything_ to make sure she goes down.
I love how his composure slipped just for an instant at her news, but was still able to summon a smile and a congenial response right to her face. Well done, Elim. Well done.
"They're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead." A premonition of the future. In the final hours of the Domion War, the Foundress gives the order to wipe out the Cardassian race. Over 800 million people are killed on the Cardassian homeworld alone. This is extremely dark by TNG era standards and I love DS9 for that. As much as I like the other series like TOS and TNG. Most of the time it's an "adventure in space" without any major consequences. DS9, on the other hand, shows how fragile this golden age of peace really is and that it only took a few wrong decisions and events to plunge it into chaos and trigger one war after another.
The only value of any solid is their utility in protecting the founders. The Cardassians may have had their use for a time, but there is no way the founder forgot that they had tried to destroy them. Rebellion or no, there was only one end coming for Cardassia.
That look on Garak's face at the end spoke "If she only had a neck bone to break.."
My first thought on what he, well, thought was, "Oh you foul bitch"
a 'as soon as I can find an intelligence organization with enough resources to create a deadly virus to changelings Ima do it. And I'll hope I can take pleasure in seeing THIS one deteriorate before my eyes in pain.' look. My new head canon is Garak helped S31 with the virus. It would be right up his bussard collector.
exactly!
Garak quickly compartmentalizing about three big moods between :35 and :41. Andrew Robinson is so good.
He's phenomenal, but Jeffery Combs is the GOAT.
If that man hasn't gotten a Guinness World Record for most time in a make-up chair, he deserves at least some accolades for his 10 plus credits, as well as playing two different characters in one episode.
DS9:
Brunt
Wayoun
Voyager:
Random alien they encounter
Enterprise:
The Andorian Shrax
Lower Decks:
Plays a genocidal computer
@@landonletterman831 oh, Jeffrey Combs is a brilliant actor in everything I've seen him in. Remember when he was Weyoun 6 (the "good" Weyoun) and he woke up from a nightmare while in a runabout with Odo? I've never seen a better dramatic representation of "waking up in a panic".
"It was a pleasure meeting you" directed at a mass killer is brilliant irony.
Knowing Garak, he may even have been honestly impressed at her ruthlessness.
It was a response the founder was lease expecting and perfectly concealed any real emotions he was feeling at the time. Genuinely impressive stuff.
@@InfernosReaper yes. He replied just as all solids should.
Mass killer? The Obsidian Order and the Tal'Shiar set out to ANNIHILATE the Founder species! Hypocrite, much?
@@Foebane72 Therefore, the founder is a mass killer.
Garak decided, in that moment, that he was going to kill that Shapeshifter.
I really love how Salome Jems played the role of The Founder. It would be easy to ham up the "genocidal maniac" interpretation many would find in such a character. But this is a very realistic portrayal of those Authoritarian Leaders who ordered mass murder and genocide like it was room service.
While most people think of the raging dictator making grandiose speeches, the truth is a lot of these people tended to think it nothing more than just another industrial enterprise. The lack of emotion, due to zero empathy. The liquidation of all solids that don't comply is nothing more than "Risk Management" and "Pest Removal"...
You could substitute the whole "They're solids" line with many other races/religions/political and social groups throughout history that have suffered the same fate at the hands of such people...
This was a nice little speech you made up.
@@aluisious it's true tough, like for instance Hitler and the Jews during the second world war.
@@blazeelvirafirehoof7844 Hitler was on the raging megalomaniacal with speeches side, though. Easy to identify.
*Most* people who would command such atrocities would feel next to no passion or excitement or sorrow in doing so. _It'd be casual._ Like it makes no difference.
Weird analogy on my part, but Hitler was like Joffrey "Baratheon", whereas most genocidal generals (including the Founder) would be like Tywin Lannister.
@Fullashit Ministries ....Hitler killed the Jews, sending them to gas chaimberw, work camps and death by firing squads.
And now we are facing real live psychopaths set out to depopulate the world to meet their demonic agenda.
Moments like this make DS9 the most cinematic of all Trek series. There are moments in this series that feel like this epic film waiting to jump out and be told in one big sequence.
In Star Trek: Online, Garak gets his revenge by activating a homing beacon that draws the Hur'q to the Founder homeworld of Empersa.
Nice.
"Your chickens, as the humans say, are coming home to roost!"
I also loved that his ship is named after his father.
I wanted to like this game so much but by the time I got my Intrepid class, the sheer brokenness of the game forced me to quit.
@@adammclaughlin845 I was more incensed both by how bored I was, and how not-Trek it felt. At its best, STO is a fun romp through fanservice town, but its stories and characters leave a lot to be desired.
0:35 his first expression is fear, his second expression seems like he wants to make a snappy retort, and his third is almost admiration of how terrible she is and deciding that he will have to kill her. Lastly, he compartmentalized it all within just a second.
Nah, that second expression is pure murderous rage.
Salome Jens was so well cast - mostly bland, but flashes of utter menace.
And possessed of a near infinite capacity for condescension.
Garak is truly the Hannibal Lecter of Star Trek.
deadphishiy if the female changeling had any idea who she was actually talking to in that moment, she’d have pissed her shape shifting pants.
*Things the Founder is lying about:* There were no Cardassian survivors.
*Things the Founder is not lying about:* They're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead. [if the Founders have their way.]
excellent acting just do still frames the level of depth is amazing from these two.
And if we use the logic of the Founder.. Garak would have had every right to do what he initially planned to do. in retrospect.. Worf should have allowed him to do it.
well since there was attempted genocide on the foudners, the dominion had every right to say that, she did keep that promise that cardassia would be dead, cause 800million dead later on.
@@thehantavirus , yeah.. but again.. that is the mentality...
Perhaps, but Garak doesn't have the right to use a Federation starship to exact his revenge. If Worf had allowed him to use the Defiant's weapons, it would be considered an act of war by the Federation. Also, do you really want to kill the Founders and have the Jem'Hadar run amok without any controls? At this point in the story, the Federation was still looking to peacefully coexist with the Dominion.
@@PoppaCYS , thank you for logical points. When you have a steady supply of anything to placate a ready violent force, any attempt to cut off that supply will be seen as evil and demonized by.... I will just leave that there. The problem is that "peaceful coexistence" only came when the Founders were deprived of their "false gods" status.. no matter how fleeting that was.
That’s a bit harsh, considering that the Founders intentionally tricked the Cardassians and Romulans into attacking their home world so that they could wipe out the Obsidian Order and cripple the Tal Shiar. They even had a Founder in the Tal Shiar during that attack.
Deception so thick even a Romulan couldn't see through it!
@@richardlahan7068 Because the Founders were playing the Romulans.
I've always had a mental image of the trap going off and you look up from your console and half your 'crew' just walks off and teleports away with no explanation.
"Wait, what just happened?"
it was still their intent to kill the Founders.
It didn't matter to her that much. Founders see all solids as beneath them. That one species had the sheer audacity to attack them all but confirmed all their prejudices and made them even more angry and paranoid.
The founder in this video more than likely knows the lengths Garak went to in order to save Odo, because the founder that Infiltrated the Tal Shiar noticed and aided in their escape. This is likely the only reason Garak survives this particular encounter.
I love how smooth he is here, he's already decided this bitch fate after that interaction with her, lol
He can't believe that they wouldn't keep some to interrogate.
She lied straight to his face, some Cardassians survived and were captured.
After reading A Stitch In Time
"Smile, Garak"
Broken Link is hard to watch because of how arrogant and intolerable the Founder is, along with her enslaved Jem'Hadar. I absolutely understood Garak's logic to annihilate them... to save everyone else.
It's a good job that the Federation never even thought of mounting an attack against the Founders directly (at least not until Section 31 got involved) it portrays the Dominion as being the aggressors when the Federation were only trying to defend themselves. The same cannot be said for the Cardassians nor the Romulans here, however.
The Founders are absolutely horrible creatures, nobody would have shed a tear if they had in fact perished.
Perhaps, but one could argue that the Founders were 100% justified in their attacks. Cardassia and Romulus tried to exterminate them, and then the Federation (section 31) infected with the mutagenic virus. Compared to those acts of genocide, the founders were at least no worse.
@@nunya3163 All of that attacks were actually planed and executed by the dominion to have an excuse to attack, because for some reason, they needed one. Section 31 was just the smartest of them all because they do something unexpected that not even the founders could predict. Since the dominion were actually planning a massive genocide of galactic scale much before anyone attacked them, no, you are totally wrong and previous comment was totally right. Founders are an evil that must be destroyed to preserve all life in the galaxy.
@@Veridiano02 China is engaged in genocide on a large scale today, are you saying that we are justified in pre-emptively nuking them?
@@nunya3163 Why not? Might makes right, the victors write the history.
Just call it a days work.
I mean what to you expect. They tried to destoy the founders so the founders destroyed them in kind
And the same logic applies to their attack on the Federation, as it was they (section 31) who infected the founders with that virus.
Since basically it was a ruse to have an excuse to attack, and since that attack was not only planned, but orchestrated since the first moment the dominion arrived, and since basically their plan was to kill or enslave everyone on the galaxy besides them, I say a preemtive strike to exterminate the founders and cripple the dominion it's more that justificated. It's necesary. I mean, does anyone will have empathy for the BORG if we find a way to exterminate their hive mind and cripple them? It's basically the same. Same kind of threat same kind of answer.
The Dominion engineered that attack so I don't think they get that excuse. That's like goading someone into hitting you and then later using that to justify pushing them down the stairs.
Broken Link is Episode 25, not 26.
You can't spell Cardassian without spelling ASS.
She pressed the Garak button. She shouldn't have done that.
Garek plotting right then to end her whole career
Excellent foreshadowing. The Dominion had always wanted to destroy Cardassia. My headcanon is that Damar was deliberately pushed to start the rebellion to give the Dominion a pretense for a counterattack, but the rebellion wasn't the reason for that attack.
I don’t see that. The Founder was angry, and Weyoun was shocked when the rebellion started. Neither of them really took the time to understand Cardassians on more than a superficial level, so neither of them were able to see how inevitable Damar’s rebellion really was.
@@icecreamdf5259 Cardassia was never going to be at the forefront after the war if the Dominion had won. The Dominion were going to take all the federation, Klingon and romulan space. The breen were going to be given much of cardassian space to boot. The only purpose of Cardassia was to provide the Dominion a foothold as they were the only available option.
@@freddybigs10 No one was meant to profit but the Dominion, not even the Breen. After all, as the Founder said, "I would have offered them the entire Alpha Quadrant if meant winning this war." Offered, never give as they plan to betray them and conquer the Breen, or at least make them a vassal state within the Dominion.
Though I believe the Founder was planning to eradicate the Cardassians the moment she could and decided if they were going to lose, she kills as many Cardassians as possible.
The Founders just thought of Cardassia as another planet under their control and the Cardassians as just disposable cannon fodder whose lives they could casually throw away, just like the Jem'Hadar and Vorta, especially once the Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance started gaining momentum and the Cardassians proved not to be up to the task of winning the war. When they didn't turn out to be perfect little obediant servants the Founders punished them by bombing their population centers.
@@freddybigs10 If you amend that statement by taking out the Breen from the equation then I'd agree. It really did seem like the Dominion never connected with the Breen enough to consider them in the beginning until the middle of the war.
Well, you just made yourself a powerful foe. The founders are doomed
That moment, more than any other, fundamentally changed Garak. From then on, he did everything in his power to defeat the dominion, even, by his own anguish, helping the federation kill cardassians, because of that very moment. One of the rare moments Garak is beside himself in shock that someone this evil exists, and considering this is Garak we're talking about, that's quite a feat.
i don't think he is shocked at how evil or dark they are he is a near sociopathic assassin and his father ran one of the most brutal spy networks in the alpha quadrant his issue is in this moment from her attitude and outburst he recognises she is 1 lying about there being no survivors and 2 also grasps that the moment they lost that first attack in the nebula the founders decided cardassia and romulus was getting genocided first once they won the alpha quadrant this moment is garak realising they cannot be allowed to win if he wants cardassia to survive long enough for him to return home it's him grasping her intentions.
He doesn't give a flying monkey's rear that she's evil. What he does care about is the fact she is an _enemy._ She has made it abundantly clear that there are only two possible outcomes: his people or her. There's no peace between them the way the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, and his people tolerate each other. He's not shocked at her evil. He's shocked that she is so brazen and willing to openly admit her intentions. She doesn't care what anyone thinks about her. She doesn't fear consequences. This is a person who is accustom to absolute power and worship. She has no moral compass; survival is her only driving thought. So there's only one choice for Garek: she and the other Founders have to die so that Cardassia can survive. In a way, he's glad that he doesn't have to figure out where they stand, but it means he's going to give _anything_ to make sure she goes down.
Dear Cardassia: don't mess with the Founders.
Dear Founders: don't mess with Cardassia.
You mean don't mess with garak
Dear Both: Don't mess with Sisko
@@watermelonhelmet6854Garak quickly decided that being on Sisko’s side was a good idea.
Garak was perfectly cast. Perfectly.
I'm sorry but the female changeling is my favourite Trek villain. Utterly disgusting character.
Ain't she so slimey?
she is a product of hate and oppression.
Garak- Ah, you see... I took that personally.
I love how his composure slipped just for an instant at her news, but was still able to summon a smile and a congenial response right to her face. Well done, Elim.
Well done.
And once she turns away, the composure slips again, this time in thinking about sweet revenge.
One of my favorite scenes. That female shape shifter is scary! lol
Garak. Enough said.
Garak is ruthless enough to understand the Founders were already intending to commit genocide against the Cardassians.
"They're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead." A premonition of the future. In the final hours of the Domion War, the Foundress gives the order to wipe out the Cardassian race. Over 800 million people are killed on the Cardassian homeworld alone.
This is extremely dark by TNG era standards and I love DS9 for that. As much as I like the other series like TOS and TNG. Most of the time it's an "adventure in space" without any major consequences. DS9, on the other hand, shows how fragile this golden age of peace really is and that it only took a few wrong decisions and events to plunge it into chaos and trigger one war after another.
The only value of any solid is their utility in protecting the founders.
The Cardassians may have had their use for a time, but there is no way the founder forgot that they had tried to destroy them. Rebellion or no, there was only one end coming for Cardassia.
0:22 Me after my Little Sister apologizes to me after she and her friends delete my saved game.
You should be very careful whenever Garak smiles like that lol.
*A few months later* Cardassia is now part of the dominion 😊😊😊😊
Not true, there were we learn in purgatory's shadow.
Yeah, but sending the message that they're all dead sends the message to give up any hope at peace.
so silent