@@biggreenDinosaur it's a play on the phrase "one of the best/worst of all time" to literally mean that it was in fact a list, that did exist, but doesn't specify whether it's a positive or negative statement, at least not explicitly
@@biggreenDinosaur it means that the list is so ass that calling it "bad" would be a compliment. Because the only good thing you can say about it is that it is, in fact, a tierlist.
I'm so glad that I'm not alone in the clover take. Clover is good, but a clover doesn't save every run like a safer spaces, headset, feather, or some speed can save runs
yeah on most runs it's a win harder item, the line between having enough proc for clover to take you out of cope but not having enough proc to be fine without clover is very thin and survivor dependent
Because you're right. A clover isn't a build is helps other builds, and if those other builds aren't doing anything then clover doesn't do shit for the build
FR, like, it isn't run defining like people think It takes your already defined run (one in which you already have ATG's and bleed and merf or something) and makes it stronger Same with ICBM
Here's my objectively correct tier list. Red Tier: all the red items. Green Tier: all the green items. White Tier: all the white items. You can argue with me, but you'd be incorrect.
This list goes crazy, apart from the bandit, mando bias i have for spleen, bleed and needle tick but across all survivors they are dog on some. I must say tho, what kind of BEAST puts plimp in B??? There's no WAY people think it's there Edit: WHY WAS PLUTE IN B AS WELL????
My best guess is that it's counting tier lists from before SotV released and because those items are just not in those lists it's automatically counted as f tier for those lists. No DLC item is ranked higher than b despite many of them clearly being recognised by the entire community as some of the best items in the game.
i think everything look right except death mark is B cause do see it work many runs maybe im lucky and fireworks in C with caffinator and pennies deserve F grrrr i see them to often and see them and i can't seem to use them
I’m questioning afterburner, What survivors is it bad enough on that it deserves B? Because for decent amount I feel it’s s-tier. Sure arti engi and cap don’t get movement, but they get a good bit more damage. And the movement nearly everyone else gets is great(except for maybe bandit).
I'd say Droneman is kinda pointless if you have no drones but if you have no drones then you're either extremely unlucky, extremely stupid, or extremely broke
I think a big reason why a lot of the items were in the places they were comes from a lack of experience. Theres a pretty good chance all the aspects ended up in bottom tier because people either: A. Didnt even know what they are, or B: figured they were too rare to be considered with other items
Its also possible that on lower difficulty where survival items matter a lot more that the fact that the one that drops your HP to 1 was considered bad because it actively destroys a lot of those items (everything %hp based no longer functions)
@TeleportRush healing is not more important on lower difficulties. I'd almost argue that it matters less than it does on higher ones because you take less damage on the lower scaling. Also, there are very few items I can think of that function based on max hp, but I don't really pay that close attention to the inner workings of healing items so feel free to correct me on that
@@metalurgent n'kuhanas is based on max hp, so it becomes weaker than it already is. A lot of the common healing items also heal % health, and they sure do love their bunguses. On the other hand, fall damage is based on hp, same with e8 curse, hence why transcendence or shared design are so good, as they completely nullify e8 curse and e3 fall damage
@@metalurgent n'kuhanas is based on max hp, so it becomes weaker than it already is. A lot of the common healing items also heal % health, and they sure do love their bunguses. On the other hand, fall damage is based on hp, same with e8 curse, hence why transcendence or shared design are so good, as they completely nullify e8 curse and e3 fall damage
@@metalurgent Bungus, first aid, monster tooth, power elixer, Interstellar desk plant, and N'kuhana's Opinion. Basically almost all healing methods are based on your maximum health (except lepton daisy, which is based on the target's maximum health). If you have been relying on a healing-based survival method, you can very easily die by picking up an item that nerfs your max hp, even if it trades it for more shielding.
a week or two ago i was playing through a lobby in the discord and a guy was VEHEMENTLY trying to convince me leeching seed was a good/not useless item and that it shouldn't be scrapped his arguement? age old reasoning of "you can get more if you need more healing" he absolutely refused to listen to my counter argument of why would you spend your greens on a bad item when you can get better greens?
Why would I get 30 leeching seeds if I can just wait for 6 items from red soup, let alone a green printer with the good stuff like bands, feather and ATG?
Bungus shilling seems to come from newer players finding out about their first survivor-specific item synergy, as if gloop mobile turrets aren't just hilarious little kamikaze gremlins. Come to think of it they look down on mobile turrets in general probably because they haven't seen E5, let alone E8.
also it comes from the early days of ROR2 when nobody knew how to play the game, just like how 5 minutes a stage came from Woolie's first thoughts after like a week of the game being out.
this is precisely why i always use mobile turrents even in multiplayer, i cant stand bungus strat i dont want to sink a 4th of my items into a green mushroom. I also just think they're more fun
@@Pihsrosnec It's more like stationary turrets drop off faster in E5-E8 than mobile ones. Halved healing doubles the amount of bungus you need to get good results and E8 means that almost any form of taking substantial damage is just not a very good trade in general. As a result the fact that mobile turrets can avoid some damage by moving is enticing.
actually, beads have a very minor use outside of twisted scavs. they're the only lunar item without an effect, meaning you aren't at a disadvantage for having them. you can get them, not worry about dying because of them and then try to get a pearl with it from a cleansing pool
My guess is since it's an average tier list of all other tier lists in the community, everyone who plays the game normally puts it in S and all the players who play with command on put it in F. Then it just averages to B
17:18 ain’t no way this isn’t satire my man the medkit activates when losing health. HEALING IS THE POINT OF REGAINING LOST HEALTH the point isn’t to “get hit in order to heal” the point is to “HEAL WHEN YOU GET HIT”
I came down to the comments because of the exact same comment. There is literally no better possible healing item than one that procs by taking damage and scales off max HP. He seems to just hate healing entirely as a game mechanic. And "prioritize not getting hit" ok buddy, but no matter how good you are you will get hit sometimes, and when you do you will need to heal it back. What a dumb reply lol
When you get good enough at the game that getting hit is an event that happens maybe 1 time per in game minute, healing becomes far less important. Everyone get's hit a little bit, but items that lower the damage taken, or prevent it entirely are much more highly rated. Healing isn't entirely forgotten though, it's just that medkits aren't the best form of healing. A Weeping Fungus, or even a Cautious Slug will heal that some HP, but won't stop at just 5% of your HP, and you only need 1 of them to get that effect. Bustling Fungus for this same reason if it didn't require you to stand still, which is the easiest way to take damage. The point is, as far as Healing items go, Medkit is pretty low, and Planula is the worse in the game, since it's just a weaker version of a white item, that being the Medkit.
Honestly I feel like blower (blast shower for the non-rainglishers) should be A tier, besides resetting spaces and bands it's just really good insurance against some of the most dangerous elites and attacks in the game. Say you were to walk into a voidtouched mushroom's puddle on stage 5 and take 2 stacks of collapse, Blower will save your life. Say you were to get hit by an off-screen overloading Elder that wasn't even aiming at you 3 seconds after entering a stage, blower will save your life. Say you were to eviscerate into an overloading Elder on stage 5 and get 10+ overloading orbs stuck to you from the flame breath attack, blower will save your life. It also will save your life if you get caught out by grandparent sun, or get in a bad spot vs. a perfected elite/phase 3 mithrix, or eat a few imp overlord needles. Just a really good survival equipment
My first ever win when I was starting out was solely due to drone parts. Drone parts is completely op and nearly an instant win button. Whenever I get drone parts I know it's gonna be a good run.
I agree with you on the “what’s good in eclipse is good in monsoon”. What items are good do not significantly change with difficultly, the only example I can think of being wake of vultures and brain stalks in monsoon for the increased elite spawn rate. The tier list could also change with the number of stages you are intended to complete, but you won’t see it start changing significantly until past stage 28 or so I think.
Remembering this was COMMUNITY made as in it took in data from everyone’s lists, this probably had very old tier lists included (old sticky bombs and when ppl thought psg was bad) but also that newer players also got theirs put in.
I think something went wrong with the way they averaged it. Not a single dlc item is higher than b despite several of them being considered fantastic items by the entire community.
I don't know about yellow scrap being B, you pretty much never see a yellow printer and there's no soup that take yellow scrap. It's also so rare for you to have more than two yellow items, so generally scrapping them is kind of redundant. Other than that it's just shocking to see how awful the general consensus is on some of these guys is lmao
I agree with you, but imo even with the rarity of yellow printers there are so many terrible scrap-fodder yellows that you might as well gamble with. A lot of the garbage yellows are Stage 1-2 drops anyways, so you have more stages to find printers on a non-loop run. Even a mid yellow print like murn is going to be wayyyy better than keeping a knurl or planula around.
I love the clover spot, it definitely is cool, but its overinflated by the hype behind finding one, because there have been too many situations where its really good and people freak out and celebrate, but not many emphasized moments where its passed up because it doesnt really do much for your build.
You're pretty much correct with this stuff, and this is from someone who plays mostly monsoon (tho I wanna get into eclipse more). I probably woulda made the same mistakes the community was making if not for your content. My only disagreements are that regen scrap and shipping manifest should be A tier as well as specifically white and green scrap. I'd also argue Card is usually S unless you get like zero trishops and scrappers, which is rare. I'm also gonna be honest, a lot of the community list comes off as people only playing with Command or doing loop runs cause many of the high rated items need a massive amount of stacking before you see really good returns. Which was also true of me. Not knocking those things tho, it's till fun in its own way. Whereas a lot of your high rated items, you only need 1 or 2 to be good. Items you tend to rate high and they rate low don't stack super well comparatively. Eg tougher times vs safer spaces. One of those lets you facetank without dodging if you stack it to an insane degree, so obviously a lot of players who use command will see it as more valuable. Droneman is another good example cause it doesnt stack nearly as well as other reds. It also ignores items with synergy as well, which suggests they just dont understand those synergies exist because they're manually picking their items without having those lessons learned organically. I would honestly really love a mod where you rebalance stuff given all your hot, but correct, takes. eg: bungus could be useful if the radius started off really big and increased incrementally. The heal amount is fine. That way you could actually use it as intended (healing allies) without needing to massively stack it. And Aegis could be amazing if it overwrote curse HP reduction. Vands is easy, just increase dmg. With leach seed, make it scale with max HP and it'd be fine (same with scythe). Lepton daisy should proc whenever you interact with an item as well as the teleporter. Make it so planular, medkit, and stealth kit effect procs even if the dmg is blocked. You could also maybe give them some kinda dmg reduction on any hit used to proc the effect. Idk about war banner, maybe make it happen when you kill either and elite or boss? Deathmark should scale with the number of effects instead of a hard pass/fail check. A lot of the equipment could just have their cooldowns reduced. Idk about wake of vultures lol.
while this tier list was definitely an improvement it really wasn't that much better since it's clear that you're playing on eclipse 8 and is also just very good at dodging compared to the average player - this is especially why tier lists just can't work properly in a game like risk of rain
It's amusing for tier lists because it's an argument of objectivity vs subjectivity in an especially subjective experience. If you're trying to beat E8, this list is amazing. If you're beating E8, you're most likely also beating anything else the game has to offer and the relative impact of an item will matter a lot less. Thus the point that this list DOES apply at all levels of play. I think some people see a tier list though and just automatically write off all the items in B as "well they are below S and thus must be bad" when it's almost better give them tags like "exceptional" and "average". I don't have 4k+ of time spent only in E8, but I do have a decent chunk (around 1k) of my playtime spent in game doing "genuine" attempts and I absolutely agree with his list, besides maybe some personal bias on Overloading Capacitor. I assume Overloading Capacitor is "only" A because it can miss, though seldomly does. Consistancy is the name of the game after all. That and you maybe don't want it if you already have a good equipment. I hilariously typed myself down from S to A even just working out why it wouldn't be an every time item like I'd mostly associate the S rank with.
The one thing I really don't agree with is putting AP rounds beneath crit glasses. Obviously both are great items and arguably S tier, but crit only gives you 10% more damage on average and caps at 100% extra damage while AP rounds give you 20% more damage, don't have a damage cap, and are only limited because they apply to boss enemies (which are the most important enemies to damage anyway). Other than that, I'm also a bit of a sucker for alien head and BG and would like to see them moved up a tier each. All in all a very agreeable tier list and an awesome video
Honestly regular enemies are responsible for 99% of deaths in ROR2 (which why all AOE is A tier) so an item that helps you deal with them is way more important than fighting the 2-3 bosses which dissapear in a flash. The only boss that actually matters is Mithrix because he actually has the health to survive normal damage and dish out some back, likewise you should be aware of mountain shrines since it makes the normal enemies harder not because it makes the bosses more tanky thoo that can still be a problem but only if you aren't efficient or completely lack damage at which point yoloing a moutain is a bad idea.
@@abcrasshadow9341 Mountain shrines don't make enemies harder?? It only affects the teleporter boss. Also I would not say enemies are responsible for the most deaths, if I'm dying in a run its to Mythrix almost every time, whether thats E8 or Umbral Mythrix
@@anartoast I’m a little confused by the wording here, but to my understanding AP rounds increase your damage by 20% against all boss enemies (red health bar enemies). AP rounds stack additively, meaning 2 AP rounds give you a 40% damage boost, but scale multiplicatively with other items, so one AP round and one watch would be about a 44% damage increase. Technically, if you already have AP rounds, picking up more AP rounds won’t give you a full 20% damage boost as it’s not multiplying the damage already given by your other AP rounds, but it’s still a substantial increase as it multiplies with all of your other damage multipliers. Forgive me if this is hard to understand, I’m not very good at explaining this kind of thing
I definitely agree with most of the list you made. I put most things within 1 tier when I tried making one, and I didn't really have any items you said were godly that I thought were awful and vice versa. Biggest consistent difference I saw was that I rated some survivability (Dio's, Larva, RAP) / aggro pulling (BG, drone backup, Shazza) items a little higher. I also put all non-yellow scrap and regen scrap in A tier instead of B, because I love me some _soup._ Only reason yellow scrap stayed in B tier is because the scrappers for yellow items are so damn uncommon that I rarely scrap yellows, and it feels like half the time you even see a yellow printer it's for a gloop or planula anyways.
The thing is you're only getting those when the red/yellow is already useless to you. If you're building correctly it's neutral at worst with the chance to be really good. I've never missed a single brainstalk or ducleus I've tossed and I'm always happy to save a good red/yellow
Red scrap in soup is strong, potentially run-saving. Yellow scrap assumes you had nothing to gain from the boss item you've scrapped, so by the chance that you did find a yellow printer (which is possible), you're cooking.
honestly I can't really argue with that lol. When the good yellow printer drops though...hot damn. And red scrap for white soup on the moon is where it's at
the only reason you should ever get a planula is if you're doing a razorwire/tincture build that just kills everything around you and gives you 15hp/tick
disposable missile launcher is an EASY A TIER, one of the best consistent damage sources from an equipment, combos amazingly with gesture and pocket icbm which are both in A tier, auto win against mithrix phase 4, and basically lets you go afk if you loop and stack fuel cells
Without fuel cells and gestures it's a 45 second cooldown with mid damage. If you loop it's auto play regardless. Also B tier is not a bad tier to be fair
The original list doesn't mean a whole lot because it's the community ranking and some people don't rank equipment or lunars, some don't have the DLC (and if you don't rank something, the average calculator will think the item is put in the lowet tier), and some make lists based on other aspects. Looking at the community page isn't really a reliable way to see the actual community's opinions.
If you are on a stage without good bosses they don't really do too much. you can greed and keep them for better bosses but that isn't a guarantee. meanwhile you can pick up better equipment that'll help you survive the run. I think A tier is really deserved
@@auberginepomegranate2742 yeah but it's literally a free item and a free boss fight if you have a good equipment already The one rare case where it has no use is if you found it after tp and have an equipment already. Otherwise, why not get that free knurl or gloop. If you're gonna take the better equipment anyway there's no reason not to
17:21 "getting hit to heal is dumb" you need to heal when you get hit DING DONG! healing when you get hit is awesome because you need to heal when you get hit!
The problem with planula is that it drops on stage 5. 15 Damage is NOT enough to make it a good item by that stage when your enemies are doing much, much more than 15 dmg. It's extremely item dependent to do anything in your build, especially when most damage comes in huge bursts rather than tiny little trickles.
@@fitzmir i think you've forgotten the fact that medkit heals for an additional 5% (+5% per stack) of your maximum health, so it is WAY FUCKING MORE THAN 15 DAMAGE
I'd move aegis up to a low c tier. If you get the passive healing items, it acts enough like a shield that it could keep you from dying if you take a couple random hits. And while there is certainly better options, I won't say no if it shows up.
i feel like the reason perfected is in f is because of wake of vultures, aspects are super rare and your going to see wake of vultures so much more than perfected aspect so most people probably form their opinions on the aspects based of vultures and then don't use the actual aspect because of it.
whether its S or A, i think AP rounds and crit need to be in the same tier. crit is 10% against everything with a cap and some specific item synergies, AP rounds is 20% against some things with no cap. tradeoffs are about equal imo
@@raydans i think crit being barely in S is fair though because on top of the multiplicative damage synergies, it also has a bunch on its own, like shatterspleen predatory, etc.
i think the problem with a lot of these content creators is they are usually high skill players, and thats good for them.. but a lot of casual players like myself value items and balancing differently.. "dont get hit" is the constant argument, but its not always that simple for lower tier players, which is the largest part of the player base, dont only listen to top tier players, play with what fits your skill level.
I think crowbar is a solid A tier item. Obviously it has super high potential for characters with a huge burst but even on characters it doesn't work well with it's still a 7.5% total damage increase at minimum. Realistically your damage increase will be higher than that, especially on weak enemies, but you're not picking up items to deal with small enemies so that doesn't really matter. A 7.5% damage increase is really good, essentially equivalent to a 4th pair of crit glasses or a 3rd sticky bomb in terms of total damage output (both of those are ~7.63%). Obviously it's not the best on it's own for survivors like commando but in the context of all the items you'll get in a run it's always worth it to have a couple of them.
It's actually less than 7.5% minimum. Crowbar dealing extra damage to enemies above 90% does not mean it will at least do extra damage 1/10 times. Edit: I went and actually did the math. Worst case scenario assuming you're doing steady damage a single crowbar is a 4.5% damage increase. This is because it's only active 6% of the time.
@@Cookiepocalypse It's incredibly easy to miss but since you have more damage for the 10% it's active you're reducing the amount of attacks it affects. More crowbars reduces it further so it doesnt stack very well when used like this.
I think instead healing, he just prefer blocking dmg with short cd. Thats why void bear is one of the best items to some people. Some enemy might one shot for a bit of mistake, but void bear always comes in handy
Challenge run idea! Item drop chanses are not based in rarity but are based off their placement in this tier list. F tier items being the most likely to drop and s tier items being the least likely to drop.
@@raydans Medkit heals 20 + 5% of your max health, and most attacks in the game do not do 90% of your health. Why even reply to me if you're just gonna make that much of a fool of yourself lol.
so if I have 1 medkit and 1000 health I heal for 70 health after the 2 second delay....or I have 1 wungus and constantly heal 20 health per second and sink all my other items into damage, mobility and damage reduction. Seems like an easy choice but I am a fool after all
12:00 Take carbonizers and play the actual game, Engi players. I love the walking little boys WAY more than the stationary ones. Range sucks, but they're cute and I like the item placements better.
8:50 gotta disagree with beads f tier. they have no upside no downside making them luna scrap so you can roll pearls from pools. I think they are fine at C because they don't have priority like real scrap
This is a really solid list but just wanna push back on the idea that good in eclipse = good everywhere. Items that are good in eclipse apply to every other mode/play pattern EXCEPT when you’re chasing infinite runs. For those, glass can be dangerous long-term as it removes your OSP, and equipment like missiles and forgive me please shoot up to S for when they reach a critical mass of synergies and clear maps on their own.
Of course having infinite of an item makes it broken. Glass doesn't become less bad over time, if you stack enough glass you one shot all enemies before they spawn into the map
Man, lots of opinions on this. A select few, with the guideline that I would say F-tier are items that are not picked up or scrapped ASAP, D-tier are items that have use but strong scrap contenders, C-tier are items that get scrapped only when you expect to *use* the scrap. Also trying to keep in a pre-sots mindset here, because seeker self-harm ticking 1s and proccing on-damage-taken has implications that I don't care to think about: Chaos down to D just because it's so intrusive with specifically recycler, card, blast shower, and capacitor. Voidsent Flame goes down a bit for the same reason that singularity band does--wisp is more consistent if you have *anything* doing damage that isn't your survivor. If you're in singleplayer avoiding drones and scrapping polyps, it's better, otherwise worse. Prayer Beads are blue scrap for Pearls, they should rank with scrap. Planula is D tier rather than F because it isn't strictly useless. Monster Teeth I might say deserve high D rather than low D, because unlike almost everything else in D tier and below there are situations where you'd intentionally keep it. Larva is probably fine in A tier for what I assume you're talking about (non-looping), but I'd call it B in looping runs if you already have or think you might get a Dio's, because it risks converting bands and clovers. Leeching seed up to low D for the same reason as Monster Teeth. Aegis D overall, as long as you have it you can at least get some mileage out of it with harvester's, bungus/wungus, etc. Zerker high D because FMP exists Bungus fine in D, but with the footnote that you may choose not to scrap them to gamble on wungus conversion. N'kuhana high D, low C for being an autoattack with a proc coefficient. Warbanner C, it's B as long as you're fighting TP bosses with the guaranteed bubble and plummets to F once you get to the moon. Stealthkit C, enables bungus, PSG, slug, and red whip in chaotic situations. Convergence B, same reasons as prayer beads except it has an actual use. Lunars are weird to rank because their opportunity cost is different from other tiers; if you don't care about lunar coins it's basically just the director cost of spawning a lunar pod and otherwise they're free. Guillotine B, it's an effective 13% damage increase against elites which are the only real problems and Mithrix can't use it. High B to low A for the first stack, low B to high C afterwards. Brooch B. Barrier is good and it's the best source of it without specific survivor abilities. Rejuv C, better early and worse late. Too many runs where you get zero healing items in the first 2-3 stages. Headset A because actually getting the damage out of it is inconvenient and unfun /shrug Syringe A for QoL, the damage increase is one thing but the faster return to having your full mobility from any ability that interrupts sprint is godly. Scythe B, as far as items I expect to see on most runs it's by far the best healing. Watch A, I get your point with the damage but the penalty of them permanently breaking is so bad that if you have more than even a couple you may as well pretend your health bar is 25% shorter because you're not going to want to finish a run where they broke.
Also, I think it should be explicitly mentioned that a LOT of the community item placements come from pre-eclipse OSP-obsessed brainrot that a lot of casual players still haven't grown out of. It doesn't change the fact that the placements are wrong, but it makes them seem less insane.
Another reason item tier lists are fickle and don't actually give you a good understanding on how to choose items is that RoR (like many other roguelikes) is a draft game. You don't pick items, you are given them. And the printers sometimes force you to pick up items that are not "the best" but because you found *that* printer and not another one, it is the best choice. For instance, ATG missiles are imo almost always better than ukuleles but if you have a polylute, I would print my atg missile into a ukulele (polylute) every time. And even if I didn't have a polylute, if I have 10 tri-tip daggers on mul-t and my single target damage is insane, I don't care about atg missiles and much rather have aoe with a ukulele. The draft aspect of the game makes items good, depending on what the game state is.
@@a_cats Well the situation makes the decision. 6 hits to your polylute (3+3 which is the scaling per item instance) is a better proc machine than a 10% proc from 3 hits. If you have no other procs to proc chain, you keep the atg. If you have a meat hook, ceremonial dagger, any perforator or any other strong proc chain, polylute is way better. I was just giving an example and even though I gave a lot of context, the example still wasn't clear defined enough to make one item "better" than the other, which is exactly the point I was trying to illustrate.
Sorry I gotta defend my boy radar scanner. B tier at least. Its just such a nice QoL to a run I'd take it over any C tier equipment & most B tiers. In game time might not matter but my IRL time certainly does.
If it drops, I never take it with me to the next stage (Unless I get no other equipment of course), but I take note of it and use it once to scan the stage for cloaked chests before leaving. Otherwise thats about it.
@@airships6730 I don't like it because it has the same icons for very different things. It's just annoying to use it and then having to check the item out manually.
I think the main placements I'm questioning are Ceremonial Daggers and Milky Chrysalis. I don't get Caggers often, but last I checked they were probably the best AoE item in the game (Spleen better on survivors that can use it but Caggers work on like everyone), and Milky Chrysalis is a mobility equipment that you can still attack in.
the problem with caggers imo is that you need to have a decent amount of other aoe items for it to actually chain, otherwise it just hits one enemy and probably doesn't even kill it (which is nice extra damage but not great aoe). Once one kill consistently leads to multiple other enemies dying it gets really strong but if you're at that point you're not in need of extra aoe anyway
Caggers is fine, definitely not the best aoe. I would genuinely rather like 2 or 3 gas over a caggers in a run. Caggers really pops off with other proc items to get the amazing chains going but that's generally a loop thing and by that time it doesn't really matter
Shustice and Scorpion. I play co-op pretty regularly. We try to pick complimentary characters. One plays a proc build who always gets scorp. The other plays a cannon build who almost always gets shustice, since it only takes four hits to work and even if it doesn’t happen it still leaves a mark. They are both proc vibe items, but with a guaranteed proc on both, shustice feels like it makes at minimum some sense to give to the cannon player. Any thoughts? I would say scorp would be top of A and shustice would be bottom of A.
ngl, your phrasing confused me a lot in this comment lol. I'm assuming you mean cannon as in burst survivor. But I agree with your end placement. Depends on the player though. Loader will rarely get the 5 hits to proc the shustice for example so that's why it's in B
9:35 now what if i told you that you shouldn't really care too much about direct hits, the explosion does far more damage and can get fat band procs. Unlike berserker's pauldron where you generally won't need the buff if you're killing things fast enough, resonance disk can be somewhat useful still as you don't need to kill things that fast. It's still not a great item, but if the explosion lands on the floor by a group of enemies it can easily nuke most of them. If you don't have good damage, you can use this really well by picking off some weak enemies to nuke something that you cant deal with at the moment
I'm sorry but even with the explosion, it just straight up misses so damn often lol. Also if it actually went for the big enemies instead of the rock in the corner that would be great. I want to like it. i really do.
i'm actually losing my mind looking at the original tier list bro holy dude this can not be serious lmaooooooooo i can't even begin to point out everything. tricorn in C tier... transcendence in the same tier as monster tooth.... death mark in A tier... beads of fealty, an item that does NOTHING, in the same tier as SAFER SPACES.................
One thing that stuck out to me in your list is that you put clean lunar scrap fodder in F tier, while all other scrap is in B. You also put an item that you can only ever obtain by scrapping lunar items, in S tier. Beads should be B tier by your own logic, if not A tier given that an item in S tier is only able to be obtained by scrapping lunars. There is no detriment to picking up Beads, and if you come across a lunar scrapper, you now have less chance of ditching the lunars you want to get an Irradiant Pearl. Also questioning Reju below Corpsebloom. They both give you plus 100% healing, but Corpsebloom applies this over time and puts a hard cap on your healing per second at just 10% of your HP. Unless you are arguing that it taking longer to heal is better, Reju should be above Corpsebloom. That's not to mention that Corpsebloom is useless on E5 and above, and Reju provides a boost to your regen as well. I'm going to assume you simply don't care about these items enough to think about their placement, which is fair I suppose if you considered them so bad that new players shouldn't know how they work. Either that or I'm missing something because I do recognise that you've got like 8x my hours in the game.
I think your placements are really good, but some of them can be questionable. If anything, tierlists need to have an addendum to justify every ranking: For example, putting crystal, dagger, syringe, and backup in B or putting trans-desence in S. To a casual observer this has some weeeeeird placements (Vase) but when you have the additional context from the video they make perfect sense
It feels weird to even have scrap on the list honestly. It's not a tierable item, it's as good as whatever you decide to print it into. The same goes for beads actually. Saying 'they do nothing, I don't care' is the same as saying 'scrap does nothing, I don't care'. It's free Pearls if you find a pool, and if you find said pool on Sanctuary there's a not insignificant chance your C tier pearls could become an A or S tier boss item. It's such a common setup. Hit Newt on first stage, buy beads if they're there (or if you reroll), dream for sanctuary second stage, instant profit. Often there's a yellow printer as well. Your run can become goated instantly, and if it doesn't, the item literally does nothing. The worst that can happen is you kill Mithrix having not achieved anything with the Beads, they don't hinder the run in any way.
To preface, I am bad at this game lol. I agree with your thing of “all items that are good at eclipse are good on drizzle”. But I will say, levels of play do change things. Cause I’m bad healing is better for my level of play cause I mess up. But overall I agree.
I would put vand in c tier just because if you're going for mithrix and in sky meadows and you somehow don't have ANY bands you may as well take it at that point 😂
@@raydans also ceremonial daggers functionally work the same on every character; if i get a kill, it spawns a dagger regardless of how. So you saying it is only good on some makes absolutely no sense
I heard someone say it's because the community average counts items as F tier if they're not on the tierlist, like would've happened with the years worth of pre-dlc tierlists
If I remember right, doesn't lysate give you one more corrupted special? Granted, one more corrupted special is still pretty awful, and I never find myself using the corrupted special, but someone COULD say that it isn't COMPLETELY useless. Unless I'm wrong, which I could be.
@@edwardskelly6332Yeah but it takes all your fuel cells. That's the issue with void items, they need to be equal to or better than their original. Basically they need to be powercrept in order to make them worthwhile. Like bison steak is bad but you lose nothing by picking it up. Picking up a L cell means you lose your equipment focused strats unless you have drowned.
I still cannot agree that clover should not be in S, ICBM affects 4 items, clover affects 24. The argument of what if you don't have a proc item just doesn't work for me. You almost certainly have a proc item. Even if you want to argue that not all of them are good: 5 of the S ranked items are affected by clover 6 of the A ranked items are affected by clover 4 of the B ranked items are affected by clover
End of the day they are both item dependant and most the proc items in the game effected by clover aren't very good. That and 1 atg and an icbm is a huge difference and 1 atg and a clover is a good difference but you need more items to get it going. But I get what you're saying. Just don't think it's good enough for S being item dependant
While I do agree with the effectiveness of clover in terms of the total items in the pool, personally I agree with Dan. While it isn't much of a measurable metric, I have had enough runs where I get clover and other than maybe one or two more sticky bombs activating nothing seems to change about the run. So as he said with the right items easy S but getting specifically those doesn't happen enough. Again this is my personal experience.
Clover is a “win more” item, where ibcm actually helps you if you aren’t having the best build/ steamrolling the game. And ibcm can also not have items to work with, but when you get it, it strengthens a lot more build options. Example : atg, or fireworks.
@@KaihanFidaiy agree, icbm strengthens as many as couple (!) build options while clover strengthens only two humble dozen, they can't be in the same tier especially considering that icbm triples (!) number of atgs when clover only doubles it's (and 20 more other items) proc chance, clover should be in D tier at best
Okay, I agree with Clover position at the most part, but having Clover, I.C.B.M, and Spleen just doesn’t sit right since with Clover it benefit a lot more proc item rather then Atk, firework, bleed or crit with spleen. I think it’s very low S tier
Consider the fact that the original list was made by people who don’t play eclipse, almost always loop, and probably use artifacts fairly often. (maybe they even play simulacrum) Now look at the list again. Some things make a bit more sense, but it’s still incredible how bad it is. It looks like it was made by one person who never played the game but is just mindlessly relaying some common and/or outdated opinions. Here are a few of the particularly atrocious crimes I would like to report from this tier list, even having considered the fact that it was made by non-eclipse players: - Safer spaces, delicate watch, symbiotic scorpion, credit card, void dio, void key, shurikens, gun, crunder, opal, drone parts. All easily A-S tier, placed in C tier. - Bison steak and lepton daisy, literally the worst white and green items in the game, in C tier. - I was going to add more here but my eyes are bleeding thanks to the people who made this tier list. May god have mercy on their souls.
The B-tier Crowdfunder feels low to me, that's like an item that is wedged between B and A. I can't think of a survivor that doesn't like Crunder, because it's just more damage at the end of the day, and makes things like bleed not feel bad on your burst survivors. It can save runs that are low on damage, and break runs that already have damage
it does have insane damage potential. the problem is that its only really that good on mando, stationary engi, nail gun mult, and captain. good on viend and flurry huntress with a shatterspleen as well. but thats 4/13 survivors or 6/13 if you include spleen, 2 of which are loadout dependent. its only that good on less than half the roster which is why its B. also you need quite a few of them to get some viable damage out of it. at least 3 or so. but better with like 5+. if you can get the build going on the right survivor tho it is insane
Question. Doesn't getting crit glasses on railgunner convert it into to more crit damage? Isn't that a good thing? Why not get glasses on railgunner. I'm somewhat new to the game so just wondering. Thanks.
So the way the maths works out is without weak spot it's 100% damage, with weak spot it's 200% damage. One crit glass adds 10% to that so 210% which means when you hit your crits it's only a 5% increase. Or a quarter of a watch if you want to really be sad about it lol
i kinda disagree with a couple of stuff on your list but yeah i think that's pretty much par for the course of this video. generally speaking, i think it's a pretty accurate tier list
Combat healing is more of a healing drone or wungus thing if anything, with elixirs to save your watches. Slug works because in the period where you're going from one fight to another, you effectively end up with more HP than other healing items. It also helps offset the halved starting HP. Besides, if you think about it, healing is the last line of defense in combat. What's better than healing is high defense or complete damage negation on hit, and what's better than that is being able to dodge better.
On eclipse as well with the halved healing, having the slug means it doesnt take 30 years to heal to full. Not necessary I suppose, especially once you get some good damage going, but its good insurance in case you do need some heals.
I'm pretty sure by combat it means taking damage, so it kinda works like a delayed slower shield in a way. It's just the most consistent source of healing though, and its usually not too hard to run away from enemies for a bit if you need to
@@aceranger8944 slug "not in combat" means not taking damage, you can still do damage yourself, its different than red whip where using dmg skills make you lose the speed (though the games definition of what is or isnt a dmg skill is weird too)
nah guillotine is honestly F, the reduction in damage is so insignificant and it stacks terribly. If you're doing too little damage for guillotine to save you more than a second killing most elites after stage 2 then you're in cope anyways. Convergence I kinda agree but it only really helps you on already good runs otherwise it makes it too hard to stay in the TP radius. Also convergence soul pillars....
convergence on eclipse deserves its spot bc the teleporter size is already halved so if you half it again you're spening more time out of it than in it, but on monsoon and below its definitely B
I'll agree with you on covergence. I was a bit too harsh on that. Guillotine though is straight dookie. Sometimes less health on enemies and doesn't effect Mithrix? Stinky
Don't agree with seed, aegis, defence nucleus and planula getting into F tier as they can't ruin your run or for example like n'kuhanas opinion do steal your band procs
Man, the more I look at the original list, the worse it gets. It is truly one of the lists of all time.
@@biggreenDinosaur it's a play on the phrase "one of the best/worst of all time" to literally mean that it was in fact a list, that did exist, but doesn't specify whether it's a positive or negative statement, at least not explicitly
It just kept getting worse the more I saw
@@biggreenDinosaur it means that the list is so ass that calling it "bad" would be a compliment. Because the only good thing you can say about it is that it is, in fact, a tierlist.
don't stare too long...it spreads
Uhhvs2223@@Snek-v2
I'm so glad that I'm not alone in the clover take. Clover is good, but a clover doesn't save every run like a safer spaces, headset, feather, or some speed can save runs
yeah on most runs it's a win harder item, the line between having enough proc for clover to take you out of cope but not having enough proc to be fine without clover is very thin and survivor dependent
you are the first person to comment about the clover placement and not yell at me lol
Because you're right. A clover isn't a build is helps other builds, and if those other builds aren't doing anything then clover doesn't do shit for the build
@@brenneneaster5479 it secures victory, but it won't turn things around if you're losing
FR, like, it isn't run defining like people think
It takes your already defined run (one in which you already have ATG's and bleed and merf or something) and makes it stronger
Same with ICBM
No way on earth that the people who made that tier list even played the game. Absolutely cursed the whole way up it.
Not a single void item beyond B tier, they definitely have not played the game.
welcome to the general consensus :)
idk whether or not to trust his opinion on the Delicate Watch considering he's never EVER broke one before. Might be biased idk idk
Watches are so good because you deal more damage meaning monsters die faster so less attacks can potentially hit you
Just don’t get hit
My name is Raymond Daniels, and I condone this message
@@soap6264 Or you could just play merc or loader and pick up focus crystals.
@@ClanksMagoo why not both
Seeing watch in C tier as soon as the video starts shows how the starting tier list is… something
Oh god it really is the longer you look at it the worse it gets why is it so bad at the start
bUt ThEy BrEaK wHeN i StAnD StIlL
Here's my objectively correct tier list.
Red Tier: all the red items.
Green Tier: all the green items.
White Tier: all the white items.
You can argue with me, but you'd be incorrect.
What about the yellow, orange, magenta, and blue items?
@@CalebK64 Yellow tier, orange tier, magenta-white, magenta-green, magenta-red, blue, blue-orange
next
I really appreciated how you started this comment lmao
This list goes crazy, apart from the bandit, mando bias i have for spleen, bleed and needle tick but across all survivors they are dog on some. I must say tho, what kind of BEAST puts plimp in B??? There's no WAY people think it's there
Edit: WHY WAS PLUTE IN B AS WELL????
preaching to the choir my friend lol
My best guess is that it's counting tier lists from before SotV released and because those items are just not in those lists it's automatically counted as f tier for those lists. No DLC item is ranked higher than b despite many of them clearly being recognised by the entire community as some of the best items in the game.
NOO DAN you put “insert item” in d tier but actually if you stack 39 of them it’s really good
Guillotine moment
hehe 39
damnnnn you right mb
Let me know what you think about these placements. More than happy to answer any questions in the comments
brittle crown in c? is it not just a better pennies/ghors tome?
pennies next to frystal is a crime
i think everything look right except death mark is B cause do see it work many runs maybe im lucky and fireworks in C with caffinator and pennies deserve F grrrr i see them to often and see them and i can't seem to use them
I’m questioning afterburner, What survivors is it bad enough on that it deserves B? Because for decent amount I feel it’s s-tier.
Sure arti engi and cap don’t get movement, but they get a good bit more damage. And the movement nearly everyone else gets is great(except for maybe bandit).
I'd say Droneman is kinda pointless if you have no drones but if you have no drones then you're either extremely unlucky, extremely stupid, or extremely broke
I think a big reason why a lot of the items were in the places they were comes from a lack of experience. Theres a pretty good chance all the aspects ended up in bottom tier because people either: A. Didnt even know what they are, or B: figured they were too rare to be considered with other items
Its also possible that on lower difficulty where survival items matter a lot more that the fact that the one that drops your HP to 1 was considered bad because it actively destroys a lot of those items (everything %hp based no longer functions)
@TeleportRush healing is not more important on lower difficulties. I'd almost argue that it matters less than it does on higher ones because you take less damage on the lower scaling.
Also, there are very few items I can think of that function based on max hp, but I don't really pay that close attention to the inner workings of healing items so feel free to correct me on that
@@metalurgent n'kuhanas is based on max hp, so it becomes weaker than it already is. A lot of the common healing items also heal % health, and they sure do love their bunguses. On the other hand, fall damage is based on hp, same with e8 curse, hence why transcendence or shared design are so good, as they completely nullify e8 curse and e3 fall damage
@@metalurgent n'kuhanas is based on max hp, so it becomes weaker than it already is. A lot of the common healing items also heal % health, and they sure do love their bunguses. On the other hand, fall damage is based on hp, same with e8 curse, hence why transcendence or shared design are so good, as they completely nullify e8 curse and e3 fall damage
@@metalurgent Bungus, first aid, monster tooth, power elixer, Interstellar desk plant, and N'kuhana's Opinion. Basically almost all healing methods are based on your maximum health (except lepton daisy, which is based on the target's maximum health). If you have been relying on a healing-based survival method, you can very easily die by picking up an item that nerfs your max hp, even if it trades it for more shielding.
a week or two ago i was playing through a lobby in the discord and a guy was VEHEMENTLY trying to convince me leeching seed was a good/not useless item and that it shouldn't be scrapped
his arguement? age old reasoning of "you can get more if you need more healing"
he absolutely refused to listen to my counter argument of why would you spend your greens on a bad item when you can get better greens?
sometimes you can't fight the brain rot o7
Why would I get 30 leeching seeds if I can just wait for 6 items from red soup, let alone a green printer with the good stuff like bands, feather and ATG?
Bungus shilling seems to come from newer players finding out about their first survivor-specific item synergy, as if gloop mobile turrets aren't just hilarious little kamikaze gremlins. Come to think of it they look down on mobile turrets in general probably because they haven't seen E5, let alone E8.
also it comes from the early days of ROR2 when nobody knew how to play the game, just like how 5 minutes a stage came from Woolie's first thoughts after like a week of the game being out.
this is precisely why i always use mobile turrents even in multiplayer, i cant stand bungus strat i dont want to sink a 4th of my items into a green mushroom.
I also just think they're more fun
That's a good way to look at it yeah. The people who don't know how to dodge yet get praised for standing still
I'm not very experienced at the game, why are mobile turrets good on E5 and E8?
@@Pihsrosnec It's more like stationary turrets drop off faster in E5-E8 than mobile ones. Halved healing doubles the amount of bungus you need to get good results and E8 means that almost any form of taking substantial damage is just not a very good trade in general. As a result the fact that mobile turrets can avoid some damage by moving is enticing.
actually, beads have a very minor use outside of twisted scavs. they're the only lunar item without an effect, meaning you aren't at a disadvantage for having them. you can get them, not worry about dying because of them and then try to get a pearl with it from a cleansing pool
I refuse to believe this list wasn’t satire. I mean scythe in s? RECYCLER IN B??!
recycler in b tier because the average player significantly undervalues rerolls and doesn’t know how to macro
well the average rainstorm/monsoon player would overvalue healing and command makes recycler useless so it makes sense why people would think that
My guess is since it's an average tier list of all other tier lists in the community, everyone who plays the game normally puts it in S and all the players who play with command on put it in F. Then it just averages to B
People think scythe is good for some reason. Flat healing is always bad in a game with slugs and wungus.
17:18 ain’t no way this isn’t satire my man the medkit activates when losing health. HEALING IS THE POINT OF REGAINING LOST HEALTH the point isn’t to “get hit in order to heal” the point is to “HEAL WHEN YOU GET HIT”
or prioritize not getting hit
I came down to the comments because of the exact same comment. There is literally no better possible healing item than one that procs by taking damage and scales off max HP. He seems to just hate healing entirely as a game mechanic.
And "prioritize not getting hit" ok buddy, but no matter how good you are you will get hit sometimes, and when you do you will need to heal it back. What a dumb reply lol
@@PirateOfPlayTime 🙌
When you get good enough at the game that getting hit is an event that happens maybe 1 time per in game minute, healing becomes far less important. Everyone get's hit a little bit, but items that lower the damage taken, or prevent it entirely are much more highly rated. Healing isn't entirely forgotten though, it's just that medkits aren't the best form of healing. A Weeping Fungus, or even a Cautious Slug will heal that some HP, but won't stop at just 5% of your HP, and you only need 1 of them to get that effect. Bustling Fungus for this same reason if it didn't require you to stand still, which is the easiest way to take damage. The point is, as far as Healing items go, Medkit is pretty low, and Planula is the worse in the game, since it's just a weaker version of a white item, that being the Medkit.
Honestly I feel like blower (blast shower for the non-rainglishers) should be A tier, besides resetting spaces and bands it's just really good insurance against some of the most dangerous elites and attacks in the game.
Say you were to walk into a voidtouched mushroom's puddle on stage 5 and take 2 stacks of collapse, Blower will save your life.
Say you were to get hit by an off-screen overloading Elder that wasn't even aiming at you 3 seconds after entering a stage, blower will save your life.
Say you were to eviscerate into an overloading Elder on stage 5 and get 10+ overloading orbs stuck to you from the flame breath attack, blower will save your life.
It also will save your life if you get caught out by grandparent sun, or get in a bad spot vs. a perfected elite/phase 3 mithrix, or eat a few imp overlord needles.
Just a really good survival equipment
to think I defended you that one time...not cool Yookie lol
@@raydans :3
Love how Race just casually comes in and roast you for doing a tier list lol
My first ever win when I was starting out was solely due to drone parts. Drone parts is completely op and nearly an instant win button. Whenever I get drone parts I know it's gonna be a good run.
I agree with you on the “what’s good in eclipse is good in monsoon”. What items are good do not significantly change with difficultly, the only example I can think of being wake of vultures and brain stalks in monsoon for the increased elite spawn rate. The tier list could also change with the number of stages you are intended to complete, but you won’t see it start changing significantly until past stage 28 or so I think.
Wake of Vultures is a good point actually. I should have clarified that when saying that.
Remembering this was COMMUNITY made as in it took in data from everyone’s lists, this probably had very old tier lists included (old sticky bombs and when ppl thought psg was bad) but also that newer players also got theirs put in.
I think something went wrong with the way they averaged it. Not a single dlc item is higher than b despite several of them being considered fantastic items by the entire community.
the first tierlist was definitely based on mando
I don't know about yellow scrap being B, you pretty much never see a yellow printer and there's no soup that take yellow scrap. It's also so rare for you to have more than two yellow items, so generally scrapping them is kind of redundant. Other than that it's just shocking to see how awful the general consensus is on some of these guys is lmao
I agree with you, but imo even with the rarity of yellow printers there are so many terrible scrap-fodder yellows that you might as well gamble with. A lot of the garbage yellows are Stage 1-2 drops anyways, so you have more stages to find printers on a non-loop run. Even a mid yellow print like murn is going to be wayyyy better than keeping a knurl or planula around.
iMO, Celestine aspect deserves to be a tier higher. Slap it on an equipment drone and you have an added layer of safety near it.
I actually didn't take eq drones into thought here. I agree with this :)
isn’t the invisibillty bugged or did they fix it?
put the earth one on an equipment drone for a weird healing drone
4:20 I'd personally bump Planula up to D or even C tier, purely because of how insane it is for Hellfire Tincture builds.
I'll settle for D for that niche case
I love the clover spot, it definitely is cool, but its overinflated by the hype behind finding one, because there have been too many situations where its really good and people freak out and celebrate, but not many emphasized moments where its passed up because it doesnt really do much for your build.
You're pretty much correct with this stuff, and this is from someone who plays mostly monsoon (tho I wanna get into eclipse more). I probably woulda made the same mistakes the community was making if not for your content. My only disagreements are that regen scrap and shipping manifest should be A tier as well as specifically white and green scrap. I'd also argue Card is usually S unless you get like zero trishops and scrappers, which is rare.
I'm also gonna be honest, a lot of the community list comes off as people only playing with Command or doing loop runs cause many of the high rated items need a massive amount of stacking before you see really good returns. Which was also true of me. Not knocking those things tho, it's till fun in its own way. Whereas a lot of your high rated items, you only need 1 or 2 to be good. Items you tend to rate high and they rate low don't stack super well comparatively. Eg tougher times vs safer spaces. One of those lets you facetank without dodging if you stack it to an insane degree, so obviously a lot of players who use command will see it as more valuable. Droneman is another good example cause it doesnt stack nearly as well as other reds. It also ignores items with synergy as well, which suggests they just dont understand those synergies exist because they're manually picking their items without having those lessons learned organically.
I would honestly really love a mod where you rebalance stuff given all your hot, but correct, takes.
eg: bungus could be useful if the radius started off really big and increased incrementally. The heal amount is fine. That way you could actually use it as intended (healing allies) without needing to massively stack it. And Aegis could be amazing if it overwrote curse HP reduction. Vands is easy, just increase dmg. With leach seed, make it scale with max HP and it'd be fine (same with scythe). Lepton daisy should proc whenever you interact with an item as well as the teleporter. Make it so planular, medkit, and stealth kit effect procs even if the dmg is blocked. You could also maybe give them some kinda dmg reduction on any hit used to proc the effect. Idk about war banner, maybe make it happen when you kill either and elite or boss? Deathmark should scale with the number of effects instead of a hard pass/fail check. A lot of the equipment could just have their cooldowns reduced. Idk about wake of vultures lol.
too long didn't read
@@papasprinkles :c
Listening to you talk about Engineer makes me realise we engi mains are either built different or built stupid. Probably both.
ummmmm :)
while this tier list was definitely an improvement it really wasn't that much better since it's clear that you're playing on eclipse 8 and is also just very good at dodging compared to the average player - this is especially why tier lists just can't work properly in a game like risk of rain
I absolutely agree. Tier lists are kind of just dumb. But I did this with the thought of people trying to improve at the game
It's amusing for tier lists because it's an argument of objectivity vs subjectivity in an especially subjective experience. If you're trying to beat E8, this list is amazing. If you're beating E8, you're most likely also beating anything else the game has to offer and the relative impact of an item will matter a lot less. Thus the point that this list DOES apply at all levels of play. I think some people see a tier list though and just automatically write off all the items in B as "well they are below S and thus must be bad" when it's almost better give them tags like "exceptional" and "average". I don't have 4k+ of time spent only in E8, but I do have a decent chunk (around 1k) of my playtime spent in game doing "genuine" attempts and I absolutely agree with his list, besides maybe some personal bias on Overloading Capacitor.
I assume Overloading Capacitor is "only" A because it can miss, though seldomly does. Consistancy is the name of the game after all. That and you maybe don't want it if you already have a good equipment.
I hilariously typed myself down from S to A even just working out why it wouldn't be an every time item like I'd mostly associate the S rank with.
The one thing I really don't agree with is putting AP rounds beneath crit glasses. Obviously both are great items and arguably S tier, but crit only gives you 10% more damage on average and caps at 100% extra damage while AP rounds give you 20% more damage, don't have a damage cap, and are only limited because they apply to boss enemies (which are the most important enemies to damage anyway). Other than that, I'm also a bit of a sucker for alien head and BG and would like to see them moved up a tier each. All in all a very agreeable tier list and an awesome video
Honestly regular enemies are responsible for 99% of deaths in ROR2 (which why all AOE is A tier) so an item that helps you deal with them is way more important than fighting the 2-3 bosses which dissapear in a flash. The only boss that actually matters is Mithrix because he actually has the health to survive normal damage and dish out some back, likewise you should be aware of mountain shrines since it makes the normal enemies harder not because it makes the bosses more tanky thoo that can still be a problem but only if you aren't efficient or completely lack damage at which point yoloing a moutain is a bad idea.
@@abcrasshadow9341 Mountain shrines don't make enemies harder?? It only affects the teleporter boss. Also I would not say enemies are responsible for the most deaths, if I'm dying in a run its to Mythrix almost every time, whether thats E8 or Umbral Mythrix
isnt ap rounds like 20% of itself or something
@@anartoast I’m a little confused by the wording here, but to my understanding AP rounds increase your damage by 20% against all boss enemies (red health bar enemies). AP rounds stack additively, meaning 2 AP rounds give you a 40% damage boost, but scale multiplicatively with other items, so one AP round and one watch would be about a 44% damage increase. Technically, if you already have AP rounds, picking up more AP rounds won’t give you a full 20% damage boost as it’s not multiplying the damage already given by your other AP rounds, but it’s still a substantial increase as it multiplies with all of your other damage multipliers. Forgive me if this is hard to understand, I’m not very good at explaining this kind of thing
@@frog2098mountain shrines increase teleporter credits and lets the teleporter spawn more and stronger enemies during the event
I definitely agree with most of the list you made. I put most things within 1 tier when I tried making one, and I didn't really have any items you said were godly that I thought were awful and vice versa.
Biggest consistent difference I saw was that I rated some survivability (Dio's, Larva, RAP) / aggro pulling (BG, drone backup, Shazza) items a little higher.
I also put all non-yellow scrap and regen scrap in A tier instead of B, because I love me some _soup._ Only reason yellow scrap stayed in B tier is because the scrappers for yellow items are so damn uncommon that I rarely scrap yellows, and it feels like half the time you even see a yellow printer it's for a gloop or planula anyways.
only thing I truly disagree with is yellow and red scrap not being D/F. you aren't finding a printer. you aren't getting your item back.
The thing is you're only getting those when the red/yellow is already useless to you. If you're building correctly it's neutral at worst with the chance to be really good. I've never missed a single brainstalk or ducleus I've tossed and I'm always happy to save a good red/yellow
Red scrap in soup is strong, potentially run-saving.
Yellow scrap assumes you had nothing to gain from the boss item you've scrapped, so by the chance that you did find a yellow printer (which is possible), you're cooking.
honestly I can't really argue with that lol. When the good yellow printer drops though...hot damn. And red scrap for white soup on the moon is where it's at
now he will beat eclipse 8 with only items from each tier surely
the only reason you should ever get a planula is if you're doing a razorwire/tincture build that just kills everything around you and gives you 15hp/tick
disposable missile launcher is an EASY A TIER, one of the best consistent damage sources from an equipment, combos amazingly with gesture and pocket icbm which are both in A tier, auto win against mithrix phase 4, and basically lets you go afk if you loop and stack fuel cells
Without fuel cells and gestures it's a 45 second cooldown with mid damage. If you loop it's auto play regardless. Also B tier is not a bad tier to be fair
Broken hunters definitely above s tier the moment you get it you run instantly takes you to the victory screen
The original list doesn't mean a whole lot because it's the community ranking and some people don't rank equipment or lunars, some don't have the DLC (and if you don't rank something, the average calculator will think the item is put in the lowet tier), and some make lists based on other aspects. Looking at the community page isn't really a reliable way to see the actual community's opinions.
I think perfected aspect is F because it's only available when you're ending your run and you are NOT going to get it 😂
i put tricorn in S just for the utility of being able to use it on a stage and move on with what you had previously--im ALWAYS happy to find a tricorn
If you are on a stage without good bosses they don't really do too much. you can greed and keep them for better bosses but that isn't a guarantee. meanwhile you can pick up better equipment that'll help you survive the run.
I think A tier is really deserved
@@auberginepomegranate2742 yeah but it's literally a free item and a free boss fight if you have a good equipment already
The one rare case where it has no use is if you found it after tp and have an equipment already. Otherwise, why not get that free knurl or gloop. If you're gonna take the better equipment anyway there's no reason not to
The only correct tier lists are the ones i create
mood
17:21 "getting hit to heal is dumb" you need to heal when you get hit DING DONG! healing when you get hit is awesome because you need to heal when you get hit!
@@legendaryfailure okay but its a flat 15 hp, by the time you get to stage 5 damage will be a lot more than 15. get RAPs instead
@@nonosquarejpeg by the time you get to stage 5 medkit stacks will be a lot more than 1, i will get both raps and medkits
The problem with planula is that it drops on stage 5. 15 Damage is NOT enough to make it a good item by that stage when your enemies are doing much, much more than 15 dmg. It's extremely item dependent to do anything in your build, especially when most damage comes in huge bursts rather than tiny little trickles.
@@fitzmir i think you've forgotten the fact that medkit heals for an additional 5% (+5% per stack) of your maximum health, so it is WAY FUCKING MORE THAN 15 DAMAGE
@@legendaryfailure I was talking about planula, which heals a flat 15 dmg. o.o
I'd move aegis up to a low c tier. If you get the passive healing items, it acts enough like a shield that it could keep you from dying if you take a couple random hits. And while there is certainly better options, I won't say no if it shows up.
i feel like the reason perfected is in f is because of wake of vultures, aspects are super rare and your going to see wake of vultures so much more than perfected aspect so most people probably form their opinions on the aspects based of vultures and then don't use the actual aspect because of it.
whether its S or A, i think AP rounds and crit need to be in the same tier. crit is 10% against everything with a cap and some specific item synergies, AP rounds is 20% against some things with no cap. tradeoffs are about equal imo
I've seen this kind of comment a few times and I actually agree. I wish I had crit in A tier instead
@@raydans i think crit being barely in S is fair though because on top of the multiplicative damage synergies, it also has a bunch on its own, like shatterspleen predatory, etc.
The scraps should be in the average of each rarity due to how printers work.
i think the problem with a lot of these content creators is they are usually high skill players, and thats good for them.. but a lot of casual players like myself value items and balancing differently.. "dont get hit" is the constant argument, but its not always that simple for lower tier players, which is the largest part of the player base, dont only listen to top tier players, play with what fits your skill level.
I think crowbar is a solid A tier item. Obviously it has super high potential for characters with a huge burst but even on characters it doesn't work well with it's still a 7.5% total damage increase at minimum. Realistically your damage increase will be higher than that, especially on weak enemies, but you're not picking up items to deal with small enemies so that doesn't really matter. A 7.5% damage increase is really good, essentially equivalent to a 4th pair of crit glasses or a 3rd sticky bomb in terms of total damage output (both of those are ~7.63%). Obviously it's not the best on it's own for survivors like commando but in the context of all the items you'll get in a run it's always worth it to have a couple of them.
It's actually less than 7.5% minimum. Crowbar dealing extra damage to enemies above 90% does not mean it will at least do extra damage 1/10 times.
Edit: I went and actually did the math. Worst case scenario assuming you're doing steady damage a single crowbar is a 4.5% damage increase. This is because it's only active 6% of the time.
@@madsante can you explain the math to me how is it only active 6% of the time lmao
ohhh i seee im dumb
@@Cookiepocalypse It's incredibly easy to miss but since you have more damage for the 10% it's active you're reducing the amount of attacks it affects. More crowbars reduces it further so it doesnt stack very well when used like this.
I think instead healing, he just prefer blocking dmg with short cd.
Thats why void bear is one of the best items to some people.
Some enemy might one shot for a bit of mistake, but void bear always comes in handy
Challenge run idea! Item drop chanses are not based in rarity but are based off their placement in this tier list. F tier items being the most likely to drop and s tier items being the least likely to drop.
this should be a fun one ngl
ewwwwwwwwwwwww
No movespeed items will make the game literal hell, this is just a low roll benthic run
just like you cant have peanutbutter sandwiches without jelly, you cant have the ror2 community without the worst opinions ever conceived X)
doing gods work mr daniels
Hello it is me, crandiostm here to say friendship ended with raymond daniels cause PSG is not in the S tier
I stand with Cran
@@ruddycub I too stand with Cran
you look like a bungus enthusiast
17:20 "getting hit to heal is dumb" uh... when else would you need to heal except immediately after taking damage?... ???
enjoy healing 10 health after losing 90% of it
@@raydans Medkit heals 20 + 5% of your max health, and most attacks in the game do not do 90% of your health. Why even reply to me if you're just gonna make that much of a fool of yourself lol.
so if I have 1 medkit and 1000 health I heal for 70 health after the 2 second delay....or I have 1 wungus and constantly heal 20 health per second and sink all my other items into damage, mobility and damage reduction. Seems like an easy choice but I am a fool after all
@@PirateOfPlayTime 🤡
I can't believe Dan said that about Engi and Bung 11:28
it was aimed at you specifically
If only corpsebloom worked in eclipse…
I have a feeling scrap was in F because by itself before printing it does nothing and they rated it on what it is and not what it will become
This guy putting all the healing items in the lower tiers
Where is your healing coming from my guy? 😂
check b tier
@@raydans apparently healing isn't that important to stay alive 🤔
absolutely correct
12:00
Take carbonizers and play the actual game, Engi players.
I love the walking little boys WAY more than the stationary ones. Range sucks, but they're cute and I like the item placements better.
I hate that stationary turrets are definitely better because the walking ones are so much more fun, more cool item interactions and such I love em
I mean I like the stationary ones better still but I love the energy of this comment lol
@@raydans Even if you end up playing stationaries more, using carbonizers means you learn the game past "unga bunga bungus good"
@@Doubyas real gamers use stationary turrets and scrap bungus every time
8:50 gotta disagree with beads f tier. they have no upside no downside making them luna scrap so you can roll pearls from pools. I think they are fine at C because they don't have priority like real scrap
honestly very fair point
This is a really solid list but just wanna push back on the idea that good in eclipse = good everywhere. Items that are good in eclipse apply to every other mode/play pattern EXCEPT when you’re chasing infinite runs. For those, glass can be dangerous long-term as it removes your OSP, and equipment like missiles and forgive me please shoot up to S for when they reach a critical mass of synergies and clear maps on their own.
Of course having infinite of an item makes it broken. Glass doesn't become less bad over time, if you stack enough glass you one shot all enemies before they spawn into the map
Man, lots of opinions on this. A select few, with the guideline that I would say F-tier are items that are not picked up or scrapped ASAP, D-tier are items that have use but strong scrap contenders, C-tier are items that get scrapped only when you expect to *use* the scrap. Also trying to keep in a pre-sots mindset here, because seeker self-harm ticking 1s and proccing on-damage-taken has implications that I don't care to think about:
Chaos down to D just because it's so intrusive with specifically recycler, card, blast shower, and capacitor.
Voidsent Flame goes down a bit for the same reason that singularity band does--wisp is more consistent if you have *anything* doing damage that isn't your survivor. If you're in singleplayer avoiding drones and scrapping polyps, it's better, otherwise worse.
Prayer Beads are blue scrap for Pearls, they should rank with scrap.
Planula is D tier rather than F because it isn't strictly useless.
Monster Teeth I might say deserve high D rather than low D, because unlike almost everything else in D tier and below there are situations where you'd intentionally keep it.
Larva is probably fine in A tier for what I assume you're talking about (non-looping), but I'd call it B in looping runs if you already have or think you might get a Dio's, because it risks converting bands and clovers.
Leeching seed up to low D for the same reason as Monster Teeth.
Aegis D overall, as long as you have it you can at least get some mileage out of it with harvester's, bungus/wungus, etc.
Zerker high D because FMP exists
Bungus fine in D, but with the footnote that you may choose not to scrap them to gamble on wungus conversion.
N'kuhana high D, low C for being an autoattack with a proc coefficient.
Warbanner C, it's B as long as you're fighting TP bosses with the guaranteed bubble and plummets to F once you get to the moon.
Stealthkit C, enables bungus, PSG, slug, and red whip in chaotic situations.
Convergence B, same reasons as prayer beads except it has an actual use. Lunars are weird to rank because their opportunity cost is different from other tiers; if you don't care about lunar coins it's basically just the director cost of spawning a lunar pod and otherwise they're free.
Guillotine B, it's an effective 13% damage increase against elites which are the only real problems and Mithrix can't use it. High B to low A for the first stack, low B to high C afterwards.
Brooch B. Barrier is good and it's the best source of it without specific survivor abilities.
Rejuv C, better early and worse late. Too many runs where you get zero healing items in the first 2-3 stages.
Headset A because actually getting the damage out of it is inconvenient and unfun /shrug
Syringe A for QoL, the damage increase is one thing but the faster return to having your full mobility from any ability that interrupts sprint is godly.
Scythe B, as far as items I expect to see on most runs it's by far the best healing.
Watch A, I get your point with the damage but the penalty of them permanently breaking is so bad that if you have more than even a couple you may as well pretend your health bar is 25% shorter because you're not going to want to finish a run where they broke.
Also, I think it should be explicitly mentioned that a LOT of the community item placements come from pre-eclipse OSP-obsessed brainrot that a lot of casual players still haven't grown out of. It doesn't change the fact that the placements are wrong, but it makes them seem less insane.
seems about right!
Another reason item tier lists are fickle and don't actually give you a good understanding on how to choose items is that RoR (like many other roguelikes) is a draft game. You don't pick items, you are given them. And the printers sometimes force you to pick up items that are not "the best" but because you found *that* printer and not another one, it is the best choice. For instance, ATG missiles are imo almost always better than ukuleles but if you have a polylute, I would print my atg missile into a ukulele (polylute) every time. And even if I didn't have a polylute, if I have 10 tri-tip daggers on mul-t and my single target damage is insane, I don't care about atg missiles and much rather have aoe with a ukulele. The draft aspect of the game makes items good, depending on what the game state is.
you probably shouldn't print atgs into polylutes, it's best to have multiple damage sources since they multiply together
@@a_cats Well the situation makes the decision. 6 hits to your polylute (3+3 which is the scaling per item instance) is a better proc machine than a 10% proc from 3 hits. If you have no other procs to proc chain, you keep the atg. If you have a meat hook, ceremonial dagger, any perforator or any other strong proc chain, polylute is way better.
I was just giving an example and even though I gave a lot of context, the example still wasn't clear defined enough to make one item "better" than the other, which is exactly the point I was trying to illustrate.
yeah I absolutely agree with your take on tier lists. They are super super subjective. But hopefully this can help people look in the right direction
Sorry I gotta defend my boy radar scanner. B tier at least. Its just such a nice QoL to a run I'd take it over any C tier equipment & most B tiers. In game time might not matter but my IRL time certainly does.
The more you play the game the less you need it. It is completely useless once you’ve learned the stages
I kinda agree, it's not really good per say but it's VERY nice to have
If it drops, I never take it with me to the next stage (Unless I get no other equipment of course), but I take note of it and use it once to scan the stage for cloaked chests before leaving. Otherwise thats about it.
@@airships6730 I don't like it because it has the same icons for very different things.
It's just annoying to use it and then having to check the item out manually.
I think the main placements I'm questioning are Ceremonial Daggers and Milky Chrysalis. I don't get Caggers often, but last I checked they were probably the best AoE item in the game (Spleen better on survivors that can use it but Caggers work on like everyone), and Milky Chrysalis is a mobility equipment that you can still attack in.
the problem with caggers imo is that you need to have a decent amount of other aoe items for it to actually chain, otherwise it just hits one enemy and probably doesn't even kill it (which is nice extra damage but not great aoe). Once one kill consistently leads to multiple other enemies dying it gets really strong but if you're at that point you're not in need of extra aoe anyway
Caggers is fine, definitely not the best aoe. I would genuinely rather like 2 or 3 gas over a caggers in a run. Caggers really pops off with other proc items to get the amazing chains going but that's generally a loop thing and by that time it doesn't really matter
Shustice and Scorpion. I play co-op pretty regularly. We try to pick complimentary characters. One plays a proc build who always gets scorp. The other plays a cannon build who almost always gets shustice, since it only takes four hits to work and even if it doesn’t happen it still leaves a mark. They are both proc vibe items, but with a guaranteed proc on both, shustice feels like it makes at minimum some sense to give to the cannon player.
Any thoughts? I would say scorp would be top of A and shustice would be bottom of A.
ngl, your phrasing confused me a lot in this comment lol. I'm assuming you mean cannon as in burst survivor. But I agree with your end placement. Depends on the player though. Loader will rarely get the 5 hits to proc the shustice for example so that's why it's in B
Holy shit that cloud poster is sick
dan doing the gods work 🙏🙏🙏🙏
in raydans we trust
9:35 now what if i told you that you shouldn't really care too much about direct hits, the explosion does far more damage and can get fat band procs. Unlike berserker's pauldron where you generally won't need the buff if you're killing things fast enough, resonance disk can be somewhat useful still as you don't need to kill things that fast. It's still not a great item, but if the explosion lands on the floor by a group of enemies it can easily nuke most of them. If you don't have good damage, you can use this really well by picking off some weak enemies to nuke something that you cant deal with at the moment
I'm sorry but even with the explosion, it just straight up misses so damn often lol. Also if it actually went for the big enemies instead of the rock in the corner that would be great. I want to like it. i really do.
40s into the video and my eyes hurt bc of such horrendous choices
i get the deathmark in c tier for solo play but for teamplay dethmark is actualy an A tier item in my oppinion but thats why tierlists suck XD
absolutely bang on lol
i'm actually losing my mind looking at the original tier list bro holy dude this can not be serious lmaooooooooo i can't even begin to point out everything. tricorn in C tier... transcendence in the same tier as monster tooth.... death mark in A tier... beads of fealty, an item that does NOTHING, in the same tier as SAFER SPACES.................
As A Pro Gamer I agree. Also why otherside from Minecraft for ending music lol
why not :)
One thing that stuck out to me in your list is that you put clean lunar scrap fodder in F tier, while all other scrap is in B. You also put an item that you can only ever obtain by scrapping lunar items, in S tier.
Beads should be B tier by your own logic, if not A tier given that an item in S tier is only able to be obtained by scrapping lunars. There is no detriment to picking up Beads, and if you come across a lunar scrapper, you now have less chance of ditching the lunars you want to get an Irradiant Pearl.
Also questioning Reju below Corpsebloom. They both give you plus 100% healing, but Corpsebloom applies this over time and puts a hard cap on your healing per second at just 10% of your HP. Unless you are arguing that it taking longer to heal is better, Reju should be above Corpsebloom.
That's not to mention that Corpsebloom is useless on E5 and above, and Reju provides a boost to your regen as well. I'm going to assume you simply don't care about these items enough to think about their placement, which is fair I suppose if you considered them so bad that new players shouldn't know how they work. Either that or I'm missing something because I do recognise that you've got like 8x my hours in the game.
I think your placements are really good, but some of them can be questionable. If anything, tierlists need to have an addendum to justify every ranking: For example, putting crystal, dagger, syringe, and backup in B or putting trans-desence in S. To a casual observer this has some weeeeeird placements (Vase) but when you have the additional context from the video they make perfect sense
It feels weird to even have scrap on the list honestly. It's not a tierable item, it's as good as whatever you decide to print it into. The same goes for beads actually. Saying 'they do nothing, I don't care' is the same as saying 'scrap does nothing, I don't care'. It's free Pearls if you find a pool, and if you find said pool on Sanctuary there's a not insignificant chance your C tier pearls could become an A or S tier boss item.
It's such a common setup. Hit Newt on first stage, buy beads if they're there (or if you reroll), dream for sanctuary second stage, instant profit. Often there's a yellow printer as well. Your run can become goated instantly, and if it doesn't, the item literally does nothing. The worst that can happen is you kill Mithrix having not achieved anything with the Beads, they don't hinder the run in any way.
To preface, I am bad at this game lol. I agree with your thing of “all items that are good at eclipse are good on drizzle”. But I will say, levels of play do change things. Cause I’m bad healing is better for my level of play cause I mess up. But overall I agree.
I would put vand in c tier just because if you're going for mithrix and in sky meadows and you somehow don't have ANY bands you may as well take it at that point 😂
yeah I was honestly a little too harsh on vand lol
Daggers in the same tier as psg is crazy
psg good on everybody. Daggers good on only some
@@raydans i wholeheartedly disagree with you there
@@raydans also ceremonial daggers functionally work the same on every character; if i get a kill, it spawns a dagger regardless of how. So you saying it is only good on some makes absolutely no sense
Ok I know the orginal list is bad, but how was shustice A while scorpion C in the original list
I heard someone say it's because the community average counts items as F tier if they're not on the tierlist, like would've happened with the years worth of pre-dlc tierlists
@@yookie255so that’s probably why plimp and p lute were so low. That makes sense
@@chomperwithcheesecake And why not a single void item was above b tier
I dunno man...I do not know
7:15 how can you argue lysate is not F tier on void fiend when it's literally utterly useless?
If I remember right, doesn't lysate give you one more corrupted special? Granted, one more corrupted special is still pretty awful, and I never find myself using the corrupted special, but someone COULD say that it isn't COMPLETELY useless. Unless I'm wrong, which I could be.
@@dukecatfishjunior6291 plus 2% corruption goes hard
@@edwardskelly6332Yeah but it takes all your fuel cells. That's the issue with void items, they need to be equal to or better than their original. Basically they need to be powercrept in order to make them worthwhile. Like bison steak is bad but you lose nothing by picking it up. Picking up a L cell means you lose your equipment focused strats unless you have drowned.
yeah it is F tier on Viend but I think he was more just pointing out how survivor dependent it is
@@Jpeg_skeleton Even then, fuel cells reduce your cooldowns further with gestures
I still cannot agree that clover should not be in S, ICBM affects 4 items, clover affects 24. The argument of what if you don't have a proc item just doesn't work for me. You almost certainly have a proc item.
Even if you want to argue that not all of them are good:
5 of the S ranked items are affected by clover
6 of the A ranked items are affected by clover
4 of the B ranked items are affected by clover
End of the day they are both item dependant and most the proc items in the game effected by clover aren't very good. That and 1 atg and an icbm is a huge difference and 1 atg and a clover is a good difference but you need more items to get it going. But I get what you're saying. Just don't think it's good enough for S being item dependant
sure thing it's not like 99% of damage in game is dealt by proc items xdd
While I do agree with the effectiveness of clover in terms of the total items in the pool, personally I agree with Dan. While it isn't much of a measurable metric, I have had enough runs where I get clover and other than maybe one or two more sticky bombs activating nothing seems to change about the run. So as he said with the right items easy S but getting specifically those doesn't happen enough. Again this is my personal experience.
Clover is a “win more” item, where ibcm actually helps you if you aren’t having the best build/ steamrolling the game. And ibcm can also not have items to work with, but when you get it, it strengthens a lot more build options. Example : atg, or fireworks.
@@KaihanFidaiy agree, icbm strengthens as many as couple (!) build options while clover strengthens only two humble dozen, they can't be in the same tier
especially considering that icbm triples (!) number of atgs when clover only doubles it's (and 20 more other items) proc chance, clover should be in D tier at best
Okay, I agree with Clover position at the most part, but having Clover, I.C.B.M, and Spleen just doesn’t sit right since with Clover it benefit a lot more proc item rather then Atk, firework, bleed or crit with spleen. I think it’s very low S tier
Consider the fact that the original list was made by people who don’t play eclipse, almost always loop, and probably use artifacts fairly often. (maybe they even play simulacrum)
Now look at the list again. Some things make a bit more sense, but it’s still incredible how bad it is. It looks like it was made by one person who never played the game but is just mindlessly relaying some common and/or outdated opinions.
Here are a few of the particularly atrocious crimes I would like to report from this tier list, even having considered the fact that it was made by non-eclipse players:
- Safer spaces, delicate watch, symbiotic scorpion, credit card, void dio, void key, shurikens, gun, crunder, opal, drone parts. All easily A-S tier, placed in C tier.
- Bison steak and lepton daisy, literally the worst white and green items in the game, in C tier.
- I was going to add more here but my eyes are bleeding thanks to the people who made this tier list. May god have mercy on their souls.
The B-tier Crowdfunder feels low to me, that's like an item that is wedged between B and A. I can't think of a survivor that doesn't like Crunder, because it's just more damage at the end of the day, and makes things like bleed not feel bad on your burst survivors. It can save runs that are low on damage, and break runs that already have damage
I definitely agree it is wedged between them
So, question, how come bleed is only B? Isn't it insane damage potential? Just curious since I want to get better
it does have insane damage potential. the problem is that its only really that good on mando, stationary engi, nail gun mult, and captain. good on viend and flurry huntress with a shatterspleen as well. but thats 4/13 survivors or 6/13 if you include spleen, 2 of which are loadout dependent. its only that good on less than half the roster which is why its B. also you need quite a few of them to get some viable damage out of it. at least 3 or so. but better with like 5+. if you can get the build going on the right survivor tho it is insane
Yeah it's a character dependant item. Commando S tier, Loader F tier. So had to slide it lower since it's a generalised list for the game
@@raydans ohhh I see, that makes sense, I didn't get to watch the whole video so you probably already explained that, sorry
Question. Doesn't getting crit glasses on railgunner convert it into to more crit damage? Isn't that a good thing? Why not get glasses on railgunner. I'm somewhat new to the game so just wondering. Thanks.
Crit on railgunner is 5% more damage, which makes it the least impactful damage item. Even sticky bomb does more average damage.
So the way the maths works out is without weak spot it's 100% damage, with weak spot it's 200% damage. One crit glass adds 10% to that so 210% which means when you hit your crits it's only a 5% increase. Or a quarter of a watch if you want to really be sad about it lol
@@raydans Got it thanks
@@mateoewig4086 Thanks!
i kinda disagree with a couple of stuff on your list but yeah i think that's pretty much par for the course of this video. generally speaking, i think it's a pretty accurate tier list
I need the world to stop taking commmunity tier lists serious when 90% of them are bs jokes like which items looks the best to wipe my ass with
I think by F they just meant scrap doesnt work as the typical item so wont be taken into account for the list
This looks VERY similar to mine that i made to help ppl just getting into the game
Glad to know i have the right idea
Wait, how it Guillotine in D if it helps you kill things faster?
killing the lesser common enemies slightly faster over getting other greens that kill everything faster isn't something I priorities
is cautious slug really so high i feel like i am always in combat and thats when i actually need healing most
Combat healing is more of a healing drone or wungus thing if anything, with elixirs to save your watches. Slug works because in the period where you're going from one fight to another, you effectively end up with more HP than other healing items. It also helps offset the halved starting HP.
Besides, if you think about it, healing is the last line of defense in combat. What's better than healing is high defense or complete damage negation on hit, and what's better than that is being able to dodge better.
On eclipse as well with the halved healing, having the slug means it doesnt take 30 years to heal to full. Not necessary I suppose, especially once you get some good damage going, but its good insurance in case you do need some heals.
I'm pretty sure by combat it means taking damage, so it kinda works like a delayed slower shield in a way. It's just the most consistent source of healing though, and its usually not too hard to run away from enemies for a bit if you need to
@@aceranger8944 slug "not in combat" means not taking damage, you can still do damage yourself, its different than red whip where using dmg skills make you lose the speed (though the games definition of what is or isnt a dmg skill is weird too)
yeah you're confusing it with the whip condition. Slug only stops healing if you get hit
Executive card and Recycler in B tier LMAO
Old guillotine is kinda crazy on looped runs
everything is crazy on looped runs
@@raydans ye fair point
this was a nice internet conversation
@@raydans I agree have a nice rest of your day my good man 🫡👍
I mean it's a lot better than where we started, but you did make quite a bit of criminally stupid decisions making this tierlist
convergence and guillotine are straight up game accelerants, i feel like they're B minimum
nah guillotine is honestly F, the reduction in damage is so insignificant and it stacks terribly. If you're doing too little damage for guillotine to save you more than a second killing most elites after stage 2 then you're in cope anyways. Convergence I kinda agree but it only really helps you on already good runs otherwise it makes it too hard to stay in the TP radius. Also convergence soul pillars....
Nah, Guillotine got put where it belongs. Convergence, though, convergence I hear you
convergence on eclipse deserves its spot bc the teleporter size is already halved so if you half it again you're spening more time out of it than in it, but on monsoon and below its definitely B
I'll agree with you on covergence. I was a bit too harsh on that. Guillotine though is straight dookie. Sometimes less health on enemies and doesn't effect Mithrix? Stinky
I think scrap is in f because it does nothing until it turns into an item i feel printers and scrappers are more s tier than scrap being s
Don't agree with seed, aegis, defence nucleus and planula getting into F tier as they can't ruin your run or for example like n'kuhanas opinion do steal your band procs