TITANIC of the Skies! - The Untold Story of Air France 447
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2024
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How can a fully operational #airfrance #Airbus A330, one of the safest ever made, go from flying along normally at
cruising altitude to being in a complete free-fall #stall, within a matter of seconds? Today I will cover one of one of the most #controversial #aviation accidents of all time. Stay tuned.
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
Sources
-----------------------------------------------------
Final Report:
bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp0906...
Understanding Air France 447 by Bill Palmer:
www.amazon.co.uk/Understandin...
Sim Objects Used:
A330-200 by JARDesign:
store.x-plane.org/JARDesign-3...
Boeing 737 MOD by Zibo:
forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...
Korean AirLivery by Krijag:
forums.x-plane.org/index.php?...
Thanks to Peter Morrissey for assisting with the animations.
Aer Lingus Livery by Effgen:
simliveries.com/index.php/2019...
Pitot probe: BEA
aviation.stackexchange.com/qu...
ADM: Honeywell
aerospace.honeywell.com/conte...
Air France HQ: UNKNOWN
www.booking.com/city/fr/tremb...
Search 1: FORCA AEREA BRASILEIRA
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...
CHAPTERS
-----------------------------------------------------
00:00 - Intro
00:57 - Prelude
03:00 - The Intertropical Convergence Zone
05:38 - External Probes
10:33 - Departure From Rio
13:18 - The Airbus System
19:29- Skimming The Clouds
21:48 - The Captain Leaves The Cockpit
25:21 - Frozen Tubes
28:19 - A Litany Of ECAM Messages
31:33 - Service Ceiling
36:17 - Straight Down
49:02 - The Sum Of All Fears
53:06 - Detailed Conclusions
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Finally what I’ve been waiting for. 😊😊. I asked for it twice and now it’s here
@@solomonarhin It's every bit as great as you would expect from Petter. He really brings the sense of confusion and desperation in the cockpit to life.
@@flagmichael nice indeed
Can you please drop the sponsors by now? The patreon is very big by now and the stops for sponsors are really annoying =/
Is there any way that you @Mentour pilot, could activate the Spanish subtitles? I always want to share your awesome videos with my dad, but he knows very little English. Please! Thanks
This quality of content is something one would usually pay for to watch on Netflix or any platform, but you give it for free. Thanks Petter, what an inspiration 🙏🙌
Aww, thank you! 💕
I can do this because of the ads, my Patreons and my sponsors.
I know those ad-breaks are annoying but they all add up to the salaries of me and my team 💕
@@MentourPilot May I wish you continued success and I hope you can afford to give yourselves a raise (you all deserve it)
@Mentour Pilot one of the very best videos I've seen on your channel. Awesome
@@MentourPilot idk why but I'm getting the urge to make 1k Google account to sub on each of the account for real every time I see your vid upon seeing the vid slowly comming to the end i feel like i wanna screem NOOOOOOOOOOO!! Like Darth Vader 😂
@@Commentator541 PBS comes from grants & taxpayer money. Nothin’ is free🙂
It was so frustrating that the relief pilot kept trying to do what might have saved the aircraft only to have the confused, potentially panicking FO yank the controls back from him and doom them all. Very sad, very frustrating incident. You've done a tremendous job educating everyone who's watched this video!
What's even more frustrating is knowing that had this happened on a Boeing, this accident most likely wouldn't have happened since both pilots would easily have been able to tell the pressure on the yokes. Terrible design on Airbus's part and another reason why I will still prefer Boeing.
@@dfg-rg3pd Agreed. Terrible design on Airbus' part. I think they were even criticized for having their airplanes designed this way because of the fact that it made it impossible for the pilots to decipher what the control inputs from the other pilots were.
I also think that because the FO brought his wife onto the plane, psychologically he had some sort of inclination to do what he thought was right in an attempt to try and save her. This I believe needs to be looked into.
Training. The FO was doing what he was taught, as frustrating as that was. I have had similar experiences on the sim where the pitot had frozen over and had to ride the plane down until the anti-ice could thaw enough ice off. When I saw that there was little or no airspeed indication I gently beld the stick forward trying to keep losing altitude at a 3000 fpm rate. Had there been another pilot pulling back on the stick and constantly wresting control from me it would have been impossible. The FO was doing what he thought would save them but did the exact opposite which makes this story all the more sad and frustrating.
This is a well told story and all good pilots can learn something from it. Well done!
😢😔
Now, as for this being a bad design or not? I think we have to understand that the whole concept of fly-by-wire is completely different from yoke driven planes. Maybe there needs to be a better prioritization algorithm. Should the captains side be able to have the final word? It seems futile having inputs that merely cancel each other out. Maybe we need AI which takes over control until it has left the stall condition although it would not have enough good data to work with. Still, there must be a better way. Any thoughts?
It's so easy to judge these seemingly counterintuitive decisions, but it's a slam back to reality when Petter says "and so it's been about one minute at this point". That's an incredibly quick transition from fine to disastrous
and don't forget, everything happens while its dark + wind noise + ratteling and shaking etc.
just crazy
Adding on the anxiety of not knowing which instruments can be trustee and...
@@greenwavemonster There's still no excuse for a professional pilot stalling his plane at 37,000 feet to zero in 4 minutes when if he'd done nothing at all the plane would have been fine.
Yeah the FO was panicking and the captain just left them (very inexperienced) at the most critical point of the flight.
It will definitely attract judgement, because stall recovery is one of the most basic skills even for learner pilots, as well as recognising when you can't handle a situation. This guy is professional, extensively trained, type certified and supposedly much more experienced than the entire crew on this aircraft model. if all that training does not translate into performance, it was a total waste of time.
Worse, he seized up in the middle of performing a dangerous manoeuvre, something that is totally unacceptable even for pilots with 3 flight hours of experience.
This flight is why in pilot training they teach us the “sit on your hands” idea. This means that if there is an emergency and you think you have to do something RIGHT NOW to avert disaster, stop for a second and think before you do anything. It’s likely that a startle reaction will cause you to do something that only makes the situation worse.
Yes that is called the Astronaut approach! “if you do not know exactly what to do, do nothing at all” Neil Armstrong…………….
"There is no situation so bad, that you cant make it worse."
Yes, reminds me of the upset training I got - if you don’t know what to do - let go. Let go of the controls and let the airplane do its thing until you know what inputs to put - also, just use rudder and pitch. But I understand in imc it’s somewhat different and waaay harder. So sad
This is true not only in aviation! I have many stories of this happening in other fields.
The first officer disregarded everything he was being told by captain and the relief pilot. He continued stick input even after transferring the controls. He basically went into full panic mode, disregarding chain of command.
NO matter the way we looked at it, he panicked... and not understanding what was happening totally could not control mentally and physically.
If he was the pilot flying he was the pilot in command?
@@johnallen7807 The pilot-in-command is the captain (aka the person who is in charge at the end of the day) but either pilot can be pilot flying (as opposed to pilot monitoring), otherwise the f/o would never get any flying experience, after all ;)
He caused it to crash
I don’t know about you, but every time I think about what happened that night, it angers me. This should not have happened. The panic actions from the pilot flying with input mostly « à cabrer » (climb position input on the command) are so maddening. But, again, it is easy to see this calmly in the comfort of my living room. Who am I to judge? The combined errors made by those guys made them lose their lives along with the passengers behind them. That is very clear. But I maintain that everyone here is at fault: the pilots, Air France, Airbus. Add to that the combination of it all, the famous Swiss cheese comparison, and we can see how the succession of cascading events offers many similarities to what happened to the Titanic.
I was an A330 pilot and this had a huge psychological effect on me when it happened.
Eastbound at night over the Atlantic it was hard not to see how you were in the same situation as these guys were,cruising along safely,yet 5 minutes later they were all dead.
Rewatching this was honestly harrowing.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm retired and thank God I never so much as scratched the paint on an airplane.
Praying for you Petter and all my colleagues out there that you stay safe!
Thank you Mark 💕
@அம்BUTன்உதவாநிதீ அம்BUTன்கழுவாநிதி Indeed.
You are making shit up
How did this change when they released the CVR findings in 2011? Before that, many assumed that there was some kind of unknown failure lurking in the A330. Did you find it reassuring to know how big of a role the pilots played? Just curious.
@@JG-zs8tr he never was a pilot.
It bears repeating that Mentour Pilot always treats these incidents with the dignity and gravitas they deserve. May this channel flourish and may future generations learn from it.
That would be cool
wipe my bum
that's true, he didn't criticize too much and stuck to the facts while painting a beautiful picture of what happened and how it happened.
You would need to relax
Most highly technical episode ive watched yet.
The first officer's last words really stuck with me: "This can't be true". I think he said that because the whole scene played out exactly like a bad dream. Maybe it felt like that moment at the end of a nightmare - just before you wake up in a sweat - when you begin to realize what's happening just can't be real. But this time it was...
Let's hope he woke up in a better place or alternative reality 😢
Sounds like more like the French version of the English exclamation "this *cannot* be happening"
Absolutely heartbreaking. Another crazy part of this story is that of an italian lady who missed this flight just for being late few minutes, took a flight home the following day and died on a car accident on her way home. Something out of a Final Destination movie..
Yea that's the other crazy part of the story. The woman missed the doomed flight, only to die by a car accident the next day. How unfortunate...
That’s very sad and very spooky.
True
An Italian woman who missed doomed Air France Flight 447 was killed days later in a car accident, it was revealed today.
Johanna Ganthaler and her husband Kurt showed up late at Rio de Janeiro airport on May 31 and dodged death aboard the Airbus, which went down over the Atlantic with 228 on board.
The retired couple caught a flight out of Rio the next day. But the woman’s luck tragically ran out last week in Kufstein, Austria when the couple’s car swerved across a road and collided with an oncoming truck, according to the Italian wire service ANSA.
Oh wow 😮
A teacher of mine was in this flight with his wife and his 3 years old son. Moments like this leaves you astonished how lives can end so abruptly. He was brilliant. The rest of the semester was very sad and weird
Federal University of Rio de Janeiro?
My condolences…wow a small child experienced this horror makes me even more sad.
😢😢😢Rest in peace… a human life is truly precious
ANOTHER BEAUTIFUL AIRCRAFT LOST ........Corporal Rnzaf
😢 sry
My uncle was flying from Rio to Paris on the same day, his flight left 30 min earlier.
He said he remembers walking by the gate for this flight with the people waiting to board the aircraft.
I find that chilling.
Oh, absolutely..
AF447 flew out of Rio every night (or at least the same route, perhaps not the same flight number). I remember seeing a news report from the following day where Monday night's AF447 passengers assembled at the gate and were asked about how they were feeling. There was obviously a lot of nervousness and apprehension. One person spoken to was actually meant to have flown on the doomed Sunday flight, but had pushed his itinerary back by 24 hours without telling anyone. He would obviously have died if he'd stuck to his original plans.
@@halfbakedproductions7887 that's so lucky. The thing tho, statistically what are the odds that the same flight, in the same route would crash again? There's even less reasons to be scared.
I'd say the odds are more or less the same. The alertness of the pilots who heard from the accident could worsen or improve the pilot's performances. But generally if on the next day all the circumstances would be the same, then the possibility would also be the same. It doesn't matter that a plane crashed the day before. That is the same thinking of doubting that after you got a six on a cubic, you wouldnt get a six again because that feels planned. But reality is that it is always the same possibility of one out of six. The possibility of another plane crashing wouldnt be influenced by the accident the day before but by the fact that the day after the weather conditions are changed and the pilots are different people
I'm amazed by how you can explain this complex technical material in such an engaging manner. I have zero aeronautical knowledge but was able to keep up with the key technical details thanks to your presentation skill.
That’s awesome, that’s what I’m trying to achieve.
same, i have nothing to do with Aircrafts but am sooo hooked to these videos
I agree, but I am concerned, because I have to notice, that Mentour is much superior in his skills to normal pilots. And this fact will go on to produce airplane crashs. It is chique to be a pilot, but it is better to become a carpenter, unless you can exclude a certain amount of stress and skill failure.
Panic is a powerful enemy in a streed situation.
He took 5 minutes to describe what happened within 18 seconds. It's unimaginable the overwhelming pressure those pilots must have felt.
When Petter said "This all happened in 18 seconds" I thought "Oh my god."
Imagine: You got zero visibility and fly in perfect control. Out of nowhere, tons of alerts start blaring and appear on your screens and, maybe most importantly, your speed indicator goes blank. From that moment on you have two minutes (last minute of freefall might not be enough altitude) to find out what's really happening and to recover a big plane from a complete stall.
I don't blame the pilots.
Pitch up nose 5 degrees, set thrust at 85% and fly the plane. Until you figure out what to do. What's going on. It's not efficient but beats taking a dip in the ocean.
@@thomaskositzki9424 The irony is that if all of them had done absolutely nothing, the flight would have continued normally after a few seconds.
@@ajs41it's wild because they had so much altitude, but just goes to show the dangers of fatigue and loss of situational awareness.
@@Inveterate-introvert I think that's true. My guess is that none of the pilots had ever experienced any serious problems in their entire flying careers, and were just totally shocked that something unexpected had happened for the first time ever. That's why they ought to do more flying in real planes where something goes wrong (deliberately caused by an instructor) and they have to try to sort it out. Just doing it in the simulator isn't going to be the same, when you know you're not in real danger.
I am a Captain with JetBlue Airways and have been flying the Embraer 190 for the past 17 years. I recently completed my transition training to fly the Airbus 320. During training one of my instructors mentioned the book you credited at the end of your video as it was written by his friend, Bill Palmer. That got me interested in this accident which is how I found your video and channel. My newly acquired A320 knowledge allowed me to understand your full breakdown of this accident and was fascinating/horrifying all at once!
I’ve since watched several of your videos and I’m truly impressed with how well they are all done. Some of these accidents I’m familiar with, most I’m not. As a professional pilot I want to continuously strive to be better and these videos are great learning tools of things NOT to do!
Thanks for your work it’s much appreciated!
That’s lovely to hear from a colleague. Thank you!
Congratulations and salute to you. You guys are real heroes. I have signed up for flight lessons but have changed my mind after watching these videos.
@@michellejones8144 why ?? No one changes their mind about driving lessons just because cars crash 😊
@@johnkibbey1875 Confession: I will be honest with you, I do not like to fly, however, I believe that if I have control of the aircraft, I won’t be scared. I feel uncomfortable when another person drives me, however, when I have control of the vehicle I am not uncomfortably or scared. That is my theory. Learning how to fly is a way to overcome my fear.
@@michellejones8144 I feel the same as you do. These videos make me scared to fly as well but we should take these as lessons as what not to do or rather as lessons on how to avoid similar issues in the future.
This honestly had me on edge in the best way possible. The storytelling of these events were really portrayed well. Definitely better than a Netflix docu-series!!!
Glad you found it interesting!
I'm brazilian and i got a flight from Sao Paulo to Paris the other day, pretty much the same route as this one, and i'll tell you, i thought about this flight the whole trip hah... There was a lot of turbulence over the ocean as well. I feel for all those people, including the Pilots, it's a sad mistake to make, but we're all humans and subjected to those possibilites. May they all rest in peace.
A real masterpiece in clarity and professional explanation, in memory of 228 victims.
Thank you Petter.
You got my words, Luigi. Real masterpiece.
There is also a vanity fair article that for me brought clarity and it was actually quite horrifying. Definitely the Swiss cheese of air crashes and it was shocking.
🕯🕯🕯
Wow felt like watching a movie. You are definitely a talented story teller. Thanks to you and your team for this quality content
Yes, indeed. RIP to the victims.
I can’t imagine what the investigators felt when they found out the pilot flying wasnt giving the controls over, and also kept the plane’s nose up. I also can’t imagine the distress the captain felt when everything clicked in his mind, but was too late to do anything about it…
Indeed.
Well this sounds like a huge professional error.
What took the captain so long to return to the cockpit?
@@mlai2546 the whole thing from when autopilot disconnected to when the plane crashed took less than 5 min afaik. The captain came back about 3 minutes in, but the time left was too little to understand what was going on and amend the mistake…
@@mlai2546 He didnt sleep before the journey.
My God, I could not even imagine the horror that each passenger went thru the last 5 minute's of their life. Rip.
It was nighttime, so the passengers would not have seen the rolls or the pitch: Other than the turbulence and shaking while the situation unfolded in the cockpit, the passengers likely never knew what hit them. 10,000 feet per minute (descent) is about 114 mph / 184 kph. Like driving a race car into a concrete wall (or a mountainside).
On a positive note, they had time to repent.
@@InMyPOV2u Or maybe raise their tray tables...
And you had time to go to school, but unfortunately you never did. Which is why now you are the reasons why homeschooling and inbreeding are generally frowned upon in this Country. @@InMyPOV2u
@anorthosite
Such a tragedy.
Wouldn't they have heard much more wind noise ?
Prayer's to those that perished. Rip.
The moral of the story is, 'If you're pitching up but still losing altitude, despite full throttle, PITCH DOWN OR YOU'LL KEEP LOSING MORE ANYWAY. (in the dark after flying through stormy weather).
I'm surprised the computer of the plane doesn't blatantly tell them that.
I only have a minimal knowledge of flying, but I feel like I could have saved the aircraft. Even under pressure I feel like I would have pitched down to stop the stall. Everything that the aircraft was doing was indicating a stall.
@@j.o.1516 Alternate Law means that the plane disengages most of it's safety protections, meaning that the commands pilots give are NOT checked over by the computer, NOT corrected for dangerous/stupid inputs and instead the plane does EXACTLY what the pilot requests. If the plane was left in Normal Law (AKA computer flying the plane, and pilot only requesting the computer to do stuff) this crash would not have happened.
Also, here's a quick airbus control laws reference:
*Normal Law* - Computers fly the plane, pilot inputs are interpreted and recalculated values are used to steer the aircraft
(ELI5 version: Pilot says "go left", computer does what needs to be done to go left (trim, spoilers, alerions). Pilot says "max pitch up", computer says "lol, no".)
*Alternate Law 1* - Computer still flying the plane, but not double checking what the pilot commands
(ELI5: Pilot says "go left", computer goes left, but the pilot has direct control over the alerions. Pilot says "max pitch up", computer says "ok, I'll pitch up, as much as we can, without snapping the plane in half, but if we start going too slow, I'll start pitching back down")
*Alternate Law 2* - Computer back down even more, only protecting the plane from snapping in half. Pilot has to trim the plane and manage the throttle.
(ELI5: Pilot says "go left", computer does a left turn. Pilot says "max pitch up", computer pitches up as much as possible, without breaking the wings off)
*Direct Law* - Pilot flies the plane, computer only transmits their input
(ELI5: Pilot says "go left", computer tells alerions what the pilot said. Pilot says "max pitch up", computer tells the elevator "max pitch up")
*Mechanical backup* - Computer gives up completely. Pilot can still fly by trimming the plane and using the rudder.
@@j.o.1516ok grandpa enough Jargon. If it switched to some other law the aircraft is doomed? You’re dealing in jargon not explaining anything
@@skl5532... Don't be rude. Alternate law means you have full control over the aircraft. Normal law which is active during Normal flying conditions you're trained under, the computer flies the aircraft under safe conditions based on pilot input. If you don't know you're in Alternate law then it's really easy to crash the aeroplane such as what happened in this video as a stall is nearly impossible. The pilot didn't know any better and just reverted back to his training which was to pitch up at full thrust(TOGA) and let the computer fly the airplane as it can fly it way better than a human. I dare you to go to a flight sim and fly this aeroplane under alternate law conditions with that silly joystick. It's nearly impossible without sufficient practice which most of these new pilots do not have as these are rare circumstances.
So true. Even I as someone who is not a pilot know that in case of a stall warning, you pitch the nose down. But they repeatedly pitched it up, further worsening the situation. Even with all the stress they were under, that's just mind-boggling.
This is probably the only video about this accident that doesn't paint the First Officer's decissions as incomprehensible. It becomes clear that this was a matter of not completely understanding the plane's systems and a lack of training in stall situations, the scene must have been terrifying to the pilots. Thank you so much for this video, can't think of many other channels that achieve this level of quality.
That’s exactly what I wanted to try and explain. Thank you for your kind words! 💕
Seems like a lot of excuses for 2 guys incompetence that killed hundreds of people - clearly they weren’t good enough to hold the positions they were in!
@@MentourPilot You did explain well Petter. I think the entire crew behaved like they were in a startled sleep deprived mode. The Captain not taking over immediately upon entering the flight deck is perplexing, again like being startled out of a sleep, not reacting properly.
@@MentourPilot would you be so kind as to let us know which editing/animation software do you use?
@@joebi-den4761 Probably the standard Adobe suite but honestly nothing in this video was so special in terms of VFX that nothing else can do it, so whatever he actually uses, you can still you anything else and make videos just as good as this one. You need years of experience though, there's no fast-track for that.
The amount of stress and it's reasoning described over this video, then the realization that it was condensed into just a few short minutes is amazing and frightening. When you said "all of this happened in the first 18 seconds," it was a slap of reality. It only got more gut wrenching from there.
I was sat there thinking the rest room must be hella resistant for the captain to be sleeping so long
@@joebob2311productions captain was probably dog tired and was the only one that could have identified the stall and taken command from the first pilot sans let him let go of the controls so they could just fly the plane and work the problem. This was definitely a problem of too many chiefs in the kitchen. And panic erasing logical thought or clarity. Unfortunately as well not a lot of manual flying done now by the new generation of pilots. They are wrapped in bubble wrap with their automated systems and when they go to alternate law they are released without much warning. The startle and the panic is a real human emotion that is hard to put aside when you are genuinely fighting for your life, this along with bad software that can’t account for the unaccountable doesn’t help.
@@azzajohnson2123 the FO really had fuckall idea what to do when the AP disengaged, and the design of the Airbus didn't exactly help. The RP had no idea the jackass in the right seat had been pitching the the aircraft nose high for two mins straight.
I was literally getting stressed out just hearing him describe the events
I know. I’m thinking where that lazy ass captain is and he says it was one minute.
This accident certainly broadened my understanding of how planes work as a whole. Including how a stall occurs and how to recover. This accident occurred two days after my 25th birthday was a shock to the entire world. Not a lot is said about how the passengers would’ve experienced the resulting collision with the sea and the physicality thereof.
F/O killed everyone.. what a tragedy.... I feel like the Captain's decision to leave just before entering a storm wasn't the wisest. My heart goes to the families :/
If you pause the vid and read the report starting at 53:23, along with Peter's commentary, you'll get quite a different picture .."caused a severe startle in the *operating crew* "... "the *crew* were expected to deploy the procedure for unreliable air speed but never did" ...
Remember, they were ALL pilots and the Pilot Flying was the F/O and so when the Captain took rest as the Pilot Monitoring, the relief pilot took over THAT role. We can make assumptions that maybe the Captain, as the pilot monitoring, may have effected a different outcome, but we'll never know.
There seem to be more than couple videos on this channel that FO pulling hard and/or captain pushing hard on their controls, refusing to ever flying the damn plane LEVEL for a second. I think they could use some simple sim training until it becomes almost kneejerk response to get the pitch to zero in any panic.
I realize how panic affects people but still, even knowing the likely outcome i can’t help wanting to yell at the pilot who is panicking to LET GO OF THE STICK! The dual input when one pilot is doing the correct thing and the other is in full panic mode is heartbreaking.
In my country there is a saying: The baby with 3 midwives never gets borned!
It shows that early 30s is actually a dangerous age. You’re past the obey as trained automatic behaviours of 18-early 20s people (which makes them desirable soldiers) but not have the life experience of 40+ people who have had minor disasters and accidents and fearful situations and survived them and learned to manage fear.
@@M_SC Most of the car accidents I've had in my life were in my 30s and 40s, not when I was a dumb kid. When I was a dumb kid just learning, I was keenly aware of my limitations. But at that point I started to feel like I was an experienced driver--but in part because of my history as a commuter, I really wasn't.
Actually dual input means the data in the aircraft is not working
imagine having reduced thrust, knowing that you are very high up in the sky, hearing a stall warning and pitching up significantly. It makes no sense that a commercial pilot is capable of intentionally doing this. It would be like a commercial bus driver pressing the accelerator at a red light instead of the brake. It doesn't make any sense.
This story is the most terrifying on your channel, Peter. I can fееl the tension and stress of the situation through the screen. Awesome job!
It seems like the pilots neglected first principles: aviate, navigate, communicate. However, it's too easy to be an armchair critic. All one can hope for is positive changes to the industry to help avoid this and similar events in the future.
Dramatic music adds to the emotion on this vid
*feel
@@brucewilliamsstudio4932 yes, it's a lesson in the affect of fatigue and unconscious decisions in an emergency combined with the way machines interact with people.
You said it!
This is one of the most disturbing air crashes out there- “Titanic of the skies” is pretty accurate. Crashing into the Atlantic in the middle of the night, all alone, is just so eerie.
Doubly so in that the Titanic also would have survived with no issue had the Captain not tried to overcorrect. If they'd hit the iceberg head-on, only one of the watertight compartments would have flooded, and the ship would have remained afloat effortlessly. but just like in this case, the Captain went to bed, shit hit the fan, those on duty tried to correct far too late, and by the time the Captain was involved, kneejerk panicking took precedence over training. It's soul-shattering
@@ebonychan That's a nice and simple explanation, except for the contradictions. 🤔🤔
Buddy...! You deserve an Emmy Award youre not just a great pilot anymore you're a great documentary film maker and media presentee. Thus was amazing. The detail and graohics in this put us audience members in the cockpit. Ive seem several docs on this crash but this is by far the best. Worst of all tho is how tragic this was.
This hits close to home. I had lived 2007-2008 in Brazil, so at Christmas 2008, freshly back in Europe, I helped friends schedule their Brazil visit for May 2009. At my advice, they decided to fly back to Bucharest from Rio (and not São Paulo, as they initially planned) via Paris. Back in 2009, there were two daily flights RIO-CDG. There was no rush, no obvious criteria (except perhaps the price) which flight to take. Fotunately, between two glasses of wine and without any serious consideration, they chose the other one, the one that had flown a couple of hours earlier (and, if I'm not much mistaken, was still airborne when tragedy struck).
The first Mentour video I will cannot bring myself to watch, at least not for the moment.
I understand
Probably your friends had some Angels to protect them at that day.
@@NicolaW72 And the people on AF447? The angels didn't think they were worth sparing?
@@sfdntk Exactly. People need to be careful about "angels watching" for this very reason.
@@sfdntk Even angels fall asleep sometimes... ;o)
Still, hearing the first officer say "Damn, we're going to crash" and "This can't be true" my heart just went out to them. That must have been terrifying. I can't even imagine. May all their souls rest in peace.
First officer should’ve never been a pilot
@@mritter3874 I agree
It absolutely baffles me how he kept on pitching up the whole time, as if stalling didn't exist. Even when tired, any sane person with decent knowledge and training should figure out that falling with no forward speed requires nose down...
Also, their is a big screen with ground and sky and roll of plane (ADI?), maybe use it....
@@Spido68_the_spectatorwell he was sane and had training so it must have been an emotional problem. Panic makes people be dumb.
What about fu** we're dead by second officier david robert 🙁
Dude I kept getting more infuriated every time you mentioned the FO taking controls and pulling up when all he had to do was pull down and his colleagues pulling down but him pulling up. Soooooo MAD!
You take control!
… 1 seconds later…
“Duel inputs”
Yep, that First Officer killed 228 people
I too am an Airline pilot. I’ve been an f/o and Captain on the Airbus. I’m currently a Boeing 787 f/o. We have heard the cockpit voice recordings (recreated in English) during subsequent training. Your video recount of this accident really helped me to connect the subtleties of the human actions in understanding how this crew remained so far away from identifying the problem and initiating the correct solution. Kudos to your research and your ability to dig deep into the factors at play, many of which were extremely unique to the aircraft manufacturer. This accident helped me to identify the one thing that may have prevented this accident from ending in the water. That is if this had happened in a Boeing aircraft, the “yoke” or control column in front of the nonflying pilot would have been seen by that pilot monitoring as being constantly pulled back by the flying pilot in the right seat and also by the captain, once he was on the flight deck. I’ve loved the side stick control in the Airbus but it is out of sight and is not mirrored to the other side stick.
Your use of graphics and animations were so extremely well done, they took me (and I’m sure those who are not aviators) on to that flight deck as if we were there. Every time I go to training and train for the unusual attitudes and “upset recoveries” I always replay Air France 447 as I realize that we are now much safer because of that tragedy. I’m moved even more because of your video. Thanks
why are the controls not mirrored. This seems problematic, not only In light of this incident
I never understood why that actually happened.
Simply put:
In doubt flat out
Meaning:
If U have no idea whats wrong, continue straight ahead and put throttle to a setting which will guarantee enough thrust to not fall out if the sky - then start troubleshooting. But pulling up all the time, WTF????
@@brainthesizeofplanet Just reading around there it seems the Co-pilot went into go round mode - the landing-abort procedure which involves full thrust and pitching the nose up. It helps I'm sure if you realise he was on 1 hours sleep from partying all night with his gf.
You can always let the yoke go to neutral
Why do pilots make a decision to fly a plane knowing it hasn't has maintenance? After watching several clips and many of them had a lack of maintenence and I'm thinking why fly a plane when maintenence is needed.
Just want to say this accident saved at least one life. I had an airspeed unreliable incident during takeoff on one of my student solos and immediately diagnosed it in part based on what I knew about AF 447. Caught a bug or something right before rotation.
Well, i doubt you would just pull the stick all the way back in desperation untill you crash
@@StoneCoolds you're very right about that. Day VFR helped, too. Diagnosing the issue was what this accident helped with :)
@@madrockxvx dis accident happened due to improper speed and altitude details right sir?
@@akshayveralkar4611 due to the crew’s improper reaction to invalid airspeed data, yes
@@madrockxvx wat should have the pilots done like continuously try to keep stable the plane by manual input?
I love how compassionate you are in describing the pilots' experience. You understand what they did wrong, but you're not judgmental. I so respect that.
I always appreciate that you say lost in your videos instead of killed. It's more compassionate and as for someone who has lost a dear friend in an accident, in my opinion it's more accurate.
I think in this case, they were definitely killed.
I think in this case, they were definitely killed.
A friend was on that plane, with his girlfriend, her son and a friend of the son's. The guy was an ever optimistic fella, he could see the light even in the deepest darkness. I could not believe my ears when they were on the news. He was the kind of guy, that if there was anybody surviving the accident, managing to swim to an island and living a happy life from that on, it was him.
Whenever you hear about a tragedy, it's always a comforting thought to think, it has nothing to do with me, nor my family, friends, nobody I know. No such a horrible thing could happen to us. This time, it did. May they rest in peace.
Thank you for the great video, Petter!
Sorry for your loss 😢
sorry about your friend :(
My condolences.
Please except my condolences and prayers 🙏
Sorry for your loss. May they dwell in Ethernal Light.
A spine chilling account of this tragedy. Very professional and Considerately done. I have nearly 15,000 hrs on Airbus from 320,330,340 and your account made me feel like I was there with them but unable to talk. Poor souls, all 228 of them. Rest in peace.
i would say all but the 3 idiotic pilots that were too lazy to do their job, even for their own sake, the other people truly a tragedy.
@@dariorodriguez4466In what way were the pilots lazy? They tried everything in their might to save the aircraft.
@@dariorodriguez4466speaking of idiots
@@Chris-fz4yirookie mistake
@@Chris-fz4yi They weren't lazy, I can agree with that, but their "trying", was what provoked the crash. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the aircraft. The pitot tubes froze, the computers got unreliable read outs, switched the flying to the crew and the crew crashed the aircraft.
If they just kept flying straight without pitching up, everything would have returned to normal operation. The pitot tubes would have unfroze and the computers would then be available again to resume automated flying.
The most important thing I’ve learned in my entire life is how to remain calm in crisis. SLOW DOWN IN EMERGENCIES. Slow is steady. Steady is smooth. Smooth is fast….
Fast is deadly….
This has helped me in soooo many different situations in my life. I work in healthcare and this motto is often contagious…As this type of calm spreads throughout emergency environments, it can lead to exceptional outcomes.
Phenomenal attention to detail and presented in an informative, accessible and clearly knowledgable way, whilst still maintaining care when dealing with the delicate matter of the scale of lives lost to such an awful tragedy. You absolutely are the best of the best when it comes to Aviation documentaries on UA-cam, and the fact all your work is consistently of such a high standard is a testament to you and your work ethic. Thank you!
This is nothing short of a masterpiece. You have outdone yourself, Mentour team. Absolutely electrifying.
Thank you so much. ❤️
Glad you found it interesting.
@@MentourPilot would you be so kind as to let us know which editing/animation software do you use?
Agreed, watching this channel is like watching a documentary on a major network.
I agree 💯
Absolutely agree!
56 minutes of high quality Mentour content! It is truly amazing how you can drop two of these videos a month, all with animation and perfect explanation. I can only guess how long making such an extended video takes
Poor Dominic has been working almost day and night on this one.. we didn’t think we would be able to pull it off but here it is.
I am so looking forward to hear what you guys think, after the video.
@@MentourPilot I already posted a thumbs up comment, before watching ;)
@@rtqii I always give his videos a like the second I click on them.
@@MentourPilot Well, I now finished it and ... wow. One of the best ones (if not the best one) so far. Wish I could give more than one like.
Yet I wonder, wouldn't pitching down with TOGA increase their speed to put them out of the stall? Or were the pitch downs too short to reach enough speed?
@@MentourPilot what do you guys use for your graphics? MSFS2020?
What an unbelievable level of incompetence and stupidity from the FO. Relief pilot should have taken control within the first minute when it was obvious of the FO's failings. Simply setting the thrust and levelling the aircraft out would have stabilised everything. How on earth that FO got that position is beyond me !!
It wasn’t obvious. Hindsight is 20/20. You woulda cried for someone to save you. Don’t act like high stress doesn’t affect your decision-making
@@johnnychimpo7539yes, stress affects your decision making, but you realise you are under stress at some point. He never let go of the controls even after telling the relif pilot thst he has the control. He simply should have never be allowed to fly a plane if he performs so badly under stress. This whole accident happend because he panniked like a lil biatch on menstruation honestly.
well this FO panic so hard but three of them didnt realise their on stall state. due to panic they waste time to trobleshooting the situation.
now i know how crazy a good pilot need to be.
It's easy to put blame on the FO, but one shouldn't forget that he was a little-experienced 32yo who flew the plane under extremely severe circumstances (tropical thunderstorm, high altitude, nighttime over the Atlantic, with zero visibility and spacial orientation) in alternate mode, without Autopilot. It's unsurprising that this situation was too much for him to handle. And still most could have been prevented had the three other pilots realized in time that the plane was nose-up when it should have been nose-down to prevente the stall.
This hits close to my heart. I used to fly that very route and that very plane regularly. Whenever I fly over the Intertropical Convergence Zone just north of Brazil and the plane shakes a bit more in the night I can't help but think of AF 447.
What is your opinion on the performance of the first officer and the team? For me with experience in single engine flying it is horrific. can’t you easily fly an airplane of this size with artificial horizon only? It takes a lot of focus if the conditions are very shaky but it’s doable imo
@@Larsonaut I'm not a pilot, but even I know that was handled poorly. One guy crashed that plane as two others watched it happen. A couple hundred others paid the price.
It's easy to forget when watching videos like this just how quickly everything we are talking about is happening. The panic and confusion must have been unbearable, and I can't imagine how the captain felt walking back into all this chaos. And of course that isn't even mentioning how the passengers must have felt. Fantastic video as always, and this was perfect timing on the upload as I had just finished catching up on the videos from the last month that I'd missed
Would they have been aware that they were crashing the plane, though (until they saw the ground, considering the first officer didn't notice the altitude until 10,000 feet), considering they couldn't even tell if they were going up or down?
It would've been a really stresful possibility...but not certain?
according to the report, the passengers were unaware.
@@starfrost6816 on a United flight from Lisbon to Newark recently, we hit this unexpected air pocket over the Atlantic that violently rattled the plane and caused a fast drop in altitude that freaked everyone out for about 2 seconds. If a plane is falling from the sky at 10k feet per minute, I can’t imagine how terrifying that would feel. I’m sure the pilots knew they were falling fast, which likely contributed to the panic and confusion in the cockpit as they also knew they didn’t have a lot of time to save the plane.
Yeah I was constantly questioning the actions of the pilots at first, but then I thought about it and tried to put myself into such an incredibly confusing and terrifying situation like that coupled with a complete and total loss of situational awareness as well as any visual cues and there's no reasonable way that I can blame them for just reverting to their subconscious training that ultimately doomed them.
3 minutes from "normal" to "dead". i always think i'd be a good pilot, and yet i always think that when faced with something like this, with 60 seconds to figure it out, I probably would fail too.
ive listened to the cockpit recordings before and its absolutely heart breaking. I can feel anxiety from watching this video too. I cant imagine what the pilot that kept the nose up must have felt when he realised his mistake. The terror in the voice of the captain when he said no no no no nose down! it really is heartbreaking.
Have you listened to the official recording? As far as I know, you can find the "reenactment" on the internet, but not the real thing. Aparently BEA has kept it confidential. That one must be a nigthmare to listen to.
@@quieromasjusticia2844 honestly now you’ve said reenactment I’m not sure. I was under the impression it was the actual recording, it definitely sounded like the real thing. It was a very long time ago I watched it and probably won’t be able to find the same video now. I will have a look though. I would’ve definitely watched it on yt.
I remember when the pilots (without the captain present) couldn’t understand what was happening there was a lot of silence in between a few words exchanged. The panic and confusion in their voices sounded genuine but it could’ve been good acting.
@@Evelynlouise089 yes, it was a reenactment. The BEA kept the real recordings and edited nice and clean interim reports and final reports. Unfortunately, when a government has stakes in a company it it easily done. But autopsies revealed the real horror that went on for a few minutes in that flight among flight and crew.
I never thought I would one day find myself screaming " PITCH DOWN!!" at my TV for 10 minute straight but here we are.. A very sad and frustrating story
The fact that when they started doing the right thing by pushing the nose down the stall warning sounding is soooo unfortunate, and is just heartbreaking
And yet, by reading some "aviation experts" here, it's all the fault of the FO... He's not blameless, but that aircraft and its warnings were all over the place...
I did my A340 type rating just over a year ago and obviously this was discussed. But you presented this much better. I’ve learned a lot more from your video. Thank you for that. It will make me a safer pilot.
Congratulations on your A340 type rating
why the co pilot did what he did we will never understand , he thought they were overspeeeding
When the complete opposite were happening, the stall warning sounded 28 times but still the co pilot pulled back on his sidestick causing the stall , he thought it was a computer error
The plane stopped flying started falling
when the pitot tubes froze and the auto pilot disconnected, they should have done nothing , just keep the plane level and leave the power where it is because it’s been working quite well for them and just wait for the sensors to come back
Instead they panicked
And captain Dubois choose to take his rest break during a very bad weather situation.
Just an avoidable accident where 228 people,didn’t have to,die
I had a Tom saying are you gonna manage to get your guy who are your day will you put a man or a quite he would go go and look at his wife are you doing with it we were doing between door now we are the volume at 60 problem why are you why have you got a boy or no
@@Paralyzer - In fairness, it's a bit more involved than saying "they panicked"; there's quite a lot of nuance there.
I'll probably write a longer post once I've finished the video, but when it comes to understanding F/O Bonin's actions it's important to remember that he was an accomplished glider (sailplane) pilot. As a result his stick-and-rudder skills and understanding of aerodynamics were in all likelihood above average - and this may have had a direct effect on his concerns regarding transiting areas of strong turbulence while carrying excess speed. Reading between the lines on the CVR transcript, before Capt. DuBois goes for his rest break Bonin repeatedly makes reference to the weather ahead and gives a strong impression that he wasn't comfortable with it - properly-applied CRM on the part of DuBois should have picked up on this and he should have designated FO Robert (who correctly diagnosed and tried to apply corrective actions from the beginning until the end) as temporary PIC.
@@Paralyzer I’ve been flying since the early 90’s and I’m definitely an “older generation” in my way of thinking. However, I do go with the times. Just that a few things I still believe was better in the old days. One of those things is the ability of pilots to hand fly their airplane. Now a days it’s: Gear up, Autopilot on.
With that in mind, I can’t comprehend why that co pilot did what he did, but I don’t blame him. I blame how he was trained.
Gulfstream has developed side sticks that move simultaneously. I hope Airbus adopts something similar. That way the other pilot can “feel” the inputs from the other pilot.
In my opinion, you hit the nail on the head in regards to the Captain. I do a lot of long haul flying. I would never take my rest when you are headed into bad weather while in charge of the flight.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 - Without going into it too much, the technical and safety aspects of interconnected vs. non-interconnected primary flight controls would seem to balance one another out when looking at the statistics (as in neither is inherently 'safer' than the other).
Something you may find interesting (as the holder of an Airbus FBW type rating) is that I was fortunate enough to be invited to take part in some experiments in an A32x simulator and in a similar scenario, the autotrim does roll forward with sustained nose-down sidestick input alone in Alternate Law, and it was possible to effect a recovery just using forward stick until relatively late in the sequence (I think the lowest we held the stall into was FL150 prior to full forward input).
Even when the pilot finally figured out the issue (it was too late) the co-pilot still kept the nose pitched up after getting yelled at to let go. Incredible.
You do an outstanding job sir. I am a retirement age woman who hates flying but I find your channel extremely interesting. I have watched so many of your videos I think I might be able to make an auto-pilot localizer assisted landing of a big jet if I am ever called upon to do so 😂. And if not, well I will die trying.
Imagine being the Captain woken up suddenly from rest, coming to the cockpit with both other pilots in complete panic with dozens of warning and many of the display indicators missing.
In hindsight it is easy to understand what was happening. But I can't blame the captain for the time it took for him to grasp what was happening. Insanely confusing and scary scenario.
I feel like had he taken the controls from the relief pilot, he would have understood what was going on.
@@officerahmoHow would he have known they climbed up that high and was falling?
I think the same.
Am a PC gamer who dabbles into air combat games at times. Knowing how often I was completely confused and overcome by a suddenly completely changed situation and lost control/got shot down...
I don't blame those pilots at all.
@@officerahmo It actually would have been better to take the control from the other pilot instead in this scenario since he was the one causing the stall the whole time, I'm also saying this because the relief pilot actually tried to take over the control but the first officer was in such a bad panic state that he didn't let him do it and he likely wouldn't let the captain take over either.
I think that he should not have left for his rest period when so much was happening
What always gets me is how quickly things can go from "this is smooth" to "I dont have control". It is bloody scary
Well that’s what happens when you stall your own plane due to incompetence
Yeah, true, scary to think about, but the good thing is that this is very unlikely to happen. It happened there because of the severely difficult conditions this happened under:
- Poor weather, with a tropical thunderstorm causing severe turbulences
- flying at night over the Atlantic with almost zero visibility and spacial orientation
- the pitot tubes malfunctioning
- a little experienced 32yo FO flying the plane, in alternate mode, without Autopilot
- no one realizing in time that the plane was nose-up when the nose should have been put down.
@@torstenscholz6243 none of that was the problem. The inexperience was the problem, had he done absolutely nothing and let if go on, they would have been fine as the ice melted and things started functioning properly again. He messed things up so by the time the experienced pilot came in, he had to solve the problem while accounting for the unforced errors of the inexperience. Little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say
What a major design fault, that 2 pilots can put in contrary inputs which level each one out.
As someone who is looking to start his aviation journey in the next couple of years. I thought these videos might scare me in a sense, but they, in fact, provide highly educational tips on how to avoid situations like this from occurring.
That is my intention!
I'd just say "Remember your basic training". Something too easily forgotten in the mindless rush to automation. Good Luck ! It's still a great career.
I was in that aircraft. We landed in Rio that evening, I went to my hotel and got asleep. The morning after I woke up to tons of calls from coworkers asking if I was ok. This accident affects me personally, thank you for sharing this very detailed and incredible story!
Glad you are here brother! God bless you
I can imagine,it's understandable that it has affected you, even though I consider you lucky I still wish that crash didn't occur in the first place.Thanks for shearing,it's comforting to know albeit how negligent the crew was atleast they managed to bring others to their destinations safe.
God surely loves you
I'm confused. Wasn't the craft, as well as you, in Rio for 3 days before going to back Paris? Why would anyone have thought you were on the return flight?
The main difference between the two flights is yours just arrived in the evening so its likely your pilots still had an early evening 'physical visual ' while over the sea . But this flight started late at night with zero visuals over the sea.
I was flying across the Atlantic ocean on an Air France flight from Dulles and we landed in CDG 5 minutes before AF447 expected landing. When I heard the announcement call on the speaker asking everyone waiting for AF447 to go to the customer service desk, I instantly knew something terrible happened. I will never forget
wow, yeah, that's the sort of thing you never want to see happen. :/
That must have been a chilling thing to hear ...
Im not sure I believe you, it was many hours before any emergency had been declared...
@@jakezxz1352 Yeah, this only makes sense if his plane landed a long time after this guy’s flight landed. It’s possible he’s misremembering the exact details.
@@jakezxz1352
I guess that flight AF447 was lost hours before landing , and those hours were used to realize that there was a problem. Therefore the announcement.
Coming back to rewatch this video for a 3rd time. You handle these stories with such care and diligence, you’ve grown to become one of my favorite channels on UA-cam. I’m wanting to become a pilot in the future- or at least get my pilots license- as I’m not sure I’m going to be able to pursue that career as I’m hearing impaired. It takes me a lot longer to process information than it would any normal pilot, so I feel like I’m kind of out of the running by that regard. Regardless, these videos are incredibly entertaining and well put together. Thank you for all you do!
I like your through explanation of events. My father is retired now, but worked as an accident investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration here in the US. We live south of Pittsburgh. Therefore, dad was among the very first investigators on the ground at Shanksville, Pennsylvania during that awful day we now refer to as 9 11. (September 11, 2001)😢 dad covered many more accidents in his career, actually began working in Raliegh, North Carolina. People don't realize how much goes into flying or how greatful we should be for a good, experienced, sober pilot when we get one! Thanks for ur hardwork!
I just watched a youtube documentary about Flight 93 that crashed in Shanksville, and I was totally touched by the sacrifice made by the passengers who decided to fight back against the hijackers. I even went as far as looking for Flight 93's Memorial site on Google Earth because I wanted to pay my respect to the heroes. I can't afford to go the the memorial in person because I live in Malaysia. I was watching another documentary about our own MH370 previously, which I think why my algorithm suggested the Flight 93 documentary, and I'm glad it did. Media tend to focus more on the 3 other flights that crashed into WTC and Pentagon, and personally I feel that it's such a shame that Flight 93 isn't highlighted more. People like your father plays a very important role in uncovering tragedies like this, and perhaps in a sad but inspiring story like the heroic deeds of the passengers on Flight 93. Please send my regards to him.
I've seen multiple documentaries about this unfortunate Air France 447. This one hands down is the best one! It covers the technical details, but also captures the absolute horror and confusion in the cockpit like no other. I was sitting on the edge of my seat.
Great work! it's crazy that Mentour Pilot makes such high quality content available for free
Totally agree.
I think pilots should test for stall scenarios every 3 months. If you fail then you pay a $25,000 fine and lose your license for 18 months. Preventing a stall from happening is one of the easiest things to go. Point the fucking nose down. If your response is to pitch up as you are approaching a stall you have NO BUSINESS being a pilot.
Point the nose down. How fucking hard is that to do?
@@mortgageapprovals8933 Rather than punish failures, why not just respectfully debrief them and have them try again?
There's no need to make the experience toxic, no need to ruin people's livelihoods, and definitely no need to have them tested every three months (the twice-yearly is plenty sufficient)
@@mortgageapprovals8933 if we are going to fine pilots tens of thousands of dollars for failing stall recovery, why not other scenarios?
I say if a commercial pilot fails any checkride they should be fined at least $25 K- if not more.
it's horrible !
As a Simulator instructor and a graduate of Embry Riddle's courses on Aircraft Accident Investigation & Human Factors I have to say this is a Master Class on what happened in this accident. I'm beyond impressed and think you could easily be teaching this stuff to Airlines & Aviation Colleges. You've covered almost every major point in Bill Palmer's excellent book on the subject and done it in an interesting and educational way that's very difficult to achieve. It was riveting all the way through. I urge every commercial pilot to watch your videos and learn from them. They are the best I've seen. Well done! Capt. Trevor Evans MRAeS.
Fly real airplanes
@@rykehuss3435 I do fly real airplanes, what gave you the idea I don't fly them?
@@tlevans62 When you said you are a sim instructor
Hey now, watch out folks, we got ourselves a graduate of Embry Riddle here.
@@cptnbennett trolling are you? Is that all you've got? Pathetic.
Truly amazing they designed, engineered and built an aeroplane that could not fly. You are at 10k feet you just lost 28,900 feet of altitude, you pitch the nose up 6-8 degrees and put the engines to 125 percent power and the plane drops out of the sky. Amazing!
The pilot flying has no idea what to do when the plane is losing altitude the engines are throttled back and wonders why the plane is not responding. Wow!
Wow , thank you for the detailed content and analysis! You are so thorough that I only watch it in segments as there is so much to digest. Just subscribed. Excellent information!
This is a great video and incredibly informative as always, also I really like the fact that you say regularly "xx seconds have past since AP disconect" during your explanation of the events, because its really easy to think that they had time to react and think, but that allows us to realise that what you've spent 10 minutes explaining in details and with insight that the pilots didn't have actually happened in mere seconds
Yes! That’s exactly what I wanted to get across. 💕
That’s so true. I always had the impression that the pilots had plenty of time to try and remedy the situation. It even seemed that the Captain had to be roused from bed the way the story has been told by others. I have much more sympathy for the pilots after watching this. Incredible job putting it together.
about 400seconds.
every second is important when you haven't yet realized a zombie is at the helm until its too late.
I've seen quite a few documentaries on this topic, and this has to be the best, most detailed and technically accurate one. I'll have to watch it again, but this is now the reference documentary regarding this crash for me. As an aeronautical engineer, thank you for that ! Outstanding job from everyone involved !
Wow 💕
To hear that from an aeronautic engineer is a big thing for me and the team. Thank you..
After years of watching videos analyzing air accidents I say this is the most nerve wracking video I've seen and that has made me feel the stress and fear of the situation.
It's probably because of the way and great skill in which you present the stressful situation without losing a shred of the exact technical information
Well done
Your presentation is first class. You even put some reputable TV documentary entities to shame. Well done, and thanks!
I'm French and I've seen many videos about airfrance 447. As here in France it obviously was a very big deal, I already knew most of what happened. But you truly did an amazing job explaining how the different factors combined brought up this tragedy. You sincerely did an impressive job! Also, when you hear the last words of the crew right before impact, it truly is heartbreaking hearing them realizing they're about to "hit".. I rarely write comments, but your video deserves it! Thanks again.
Actually only one factor, poor pilot skills! Until Large jet pilots have, like in the USA, some real stick and rudder flying, systems operators like these chaps will always make mistakes. Poor training, poor skiils and total lack of CRM
Well, I'm only an amateur but I know there is a debate of which is better, more control to the pilot or more control to the plane's system computer. Obviously you're right about the poor pilot training and skills.. In a way it seems unbelievable that such professionals would not recognize a stall.. Proof that full automation isn't the answer alone. They need to find a balance and the computer should be there to assist the pilot, not to all by itself. But also as it is said in this video, the guys were apparently quite tired also, some French reporters even managed to find the bars where they've been while in Brazil, so this is another factor. Also the bad luck of an improbable timing when the captain comes back and the stall alert stops right at that moment.. And I think Peter is right when he said at the beginning to keep in mind that it is very important to understand exactly how the plane's systems work. So yeah, we come back to to your argument which I agree is the main factor.. But i also think it goes alongside fatigue, bad timing, bad luck, bad equipment (pitot tubes).. I also agree that i think it was be best if both commands are directly linked together, and not get a simple error message coz both pilots are doing opposite things.. During a stressful moment, each pilot would have been able to instantly recognize the issue. Apparently this is Airbus policies, unlike Boeing ones.. Hopefully, everyone will still manage to correct what brought this crash in about 4mns total.. Showing how important it is to have the training and skills. And again, it's heartbreaking hearing the pilots realizing they were going to hit the ground. First time I heard the very last words of the pilots conversation, it was a very powerful moment, I felt so bad for them, even if you know they also have their responsibility.. Let's hope it never happens again!
@@nneellssoonn111 When you train for you IR, you are taught, well not the French or JAR syllabus, to fly. So when the you suspect the pitot has iced. You maintain the picture on the panel, power setting and speed until the de-icing hits. I feel nothing for the pilots, they killed an awful lot of people who I do care for. Their act and the BEA cover up is criminal.
@@jimwalsh8520 well, about the BEA there's no argument there, I completely agree with you. And of course the pilots killed a lot of people, but I think you're a bit harsh about them. They didn't want to crash, in their mind they tried everything without realizing the main issue. Indeed they just should have kept flying the plane level until the pitot tubes started functioning correctly again. Then the computer system would have been working back with correct informations. It's true you're right they didn't do their job properly as they were just trained to recognize pitot tubes malfunction and how to react. It is a tragedy that could have been avoided. But to me, although you're right and it's mainly their poor pilot skills that brought up this crash, they just couldn't understand the situation. As it is often said, it's much easier to see and understand the situation when your life is not on the line. They just couldn't believe what was happening.. And to be honest, the 1st officer whom kept pulling the stick, putting the plane to such an angle that stalling was inevitable, those actions didn't give a chance to the other 1st officer to maybe recover the stall. Anyway, maybe it's because I heard their last words that I feel bad for them, I don't know.. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about that specific issue. 👍🏻But about the BEA, it's just disgusting.. Big money, too close to Airbus, and no wonder it ends up like this unfortunately..
@@jimwalsh8520 you can never train for all the possible situations.
You’re so disrespectful to these people.
I know the first officer tried his absolute hardest to fix the situation, but him taking control from the relief pilot who was doing the exact thing that could’ve saved everyone just so he could do the opposite is heartbreaking
that is not how it was, if you read the discussion taking place in the cockpit the last 3 Min. The captain gave the command to the
less experienced co-pilot, right seat (905h on an A330) instead of the more experience 2nd co-pilot, left seat (4.650h on A330). The
pilot on the left only talked to the pilot on his right what to do, or asking him, what he is doing. One has to read the discussion which
took place to understand. When the captain came back, you know he left his seat when the plane was in perfect state, he did not grasp the situation, thinking all was well, when realising the situation he could only ask: what the heck are you doing? Put the nose down. But it was much too late to do anything at that moment.
The first officer, Bonin, was the cause of the crash.
bonin the culprit
@@stephenpalmer8072 You should watch the video again, and pay more attention to Petter's excellent explanation of the very unusual situation this flight got into. Maybe then you'll understand better.
I am an A330 pilot myself. That's probably why I have an easier time understanding what happened. By the way, Airbus and all airlines operating the A330 have changed system logic since. So, the people who really do understand what happened were not so ready with their judgement.
@@TribusMontibus I am always ready to listen to someone with experience - so isn't it true that this would not have happened if the two pilots had connected yokes like in a Boeing?
Hi.
I'm THE most nervous passenger on airplanes ever. I also learned to fly a small plane before I ever learned to drive. Obviously, it was a couple of lessons only; so no flying time, but I absolutely loved it 😊
When I learned to drive- my right-hand turns were INDY 500 style! 🤦🤦
I found your channel accidentally; and I'm so hooked! I've signed up to your app also-thank you.
I love the way you present your channel/information; I can see you are obviously qualified in this area; and I REALLY appreciate your very factual and physically accurate accounts- while also maintaining resoect, care and admiration for the aviators who are highlighted in your content. Only a real aviator would be capable of this; and I thank you. I recently watched the content of Ted and Dan; and the respect and admiration is obvious, and contagious. Please continue to do exactly as you are! 👏👏👏 Excellent channel and content. Thank you D
Let one person have control. Make up you mind. It's like car with 2 drivers, one turning left, other right.. one speed up, the other breaking.. They simply stalled by reducing the thrust and keep climbing until it started to fall.
The relief pilot seemed to have quite a good understanding compared to the first officer. He was pushing down even when the plane was falsely giving anti stall warnings. Then the first officer again started pulling up. The first officer was also less experienced than the relief pilot.
It's weird, but every time I hear this story, I still think there's a chance they'll save the plane. I keep waiting for "...and then they realized they needed to push the stick forward and continued on their flight."
Me too, I keep yelling at the screen "just push the stick forward! Just push the stick forward!!!"
nothing you can do with a moron like bonin in the cockpit.
But as Petter said, the computer couldn’t make sense with the airstream at such a sharp angle so CANCELLED the warning, then when the nose would be pushed down the computer wakes up and announces STALL! I can certainly see now why these pilots were so screwed up as to what was really going on.
How Petter has portrayed it, we can only imagine what they went through which is but a drop in the bucket of what those guys must have actually felt😢
@@57Jimmy knowing you might have done something that killed hundreds of people including yourself has got to be a mercifully short horror. 😢
Could this flight have been saved if it was day time and the horizon was visible?
the stall warning coming on and off is absolutely unbelievable... it's heartbreaking. everytime I watch this video I catch myself rooting for a different outcome. rip
Yeah I have the same reaction. Hoping for an alternate outcome.
i know! i guess denial is a very big flaw
My Dad told me of this story about a business man he knew here in Ireland. He planned to make a trip of a few days to Brazil for work stuff, even though that same weekend he was invited to a family event. At the last minute, he cancelled the trip and decided to join family. He had a nice weekend talking to people he knew, catching up with family members he'd hadn't seen in a while and generally had a good and meaningful time.
That Monday, his secretary came into the office and not knowing his change of plans, she checked his flight plan to figure when he'd be back in the office. She was utterly terrified when she saw his return flight was Air France 447.
Very good video. I watched several videos about AF447, having friends and family at Air France. Yours is definitely better. Thank you.
I really appreciate your detailed timelines. It puts things in context. In this video, you calmly and deliberately explain what is going wrong for several minutes, and then say "this all happened in 18 seconds."
It gives real appreciation to what the pilots were up against, and how challenging the situation was in the moment.
Indeed, exactly!
👍😢
DAMN! I have been a pilot for 42 years…spending time in Boeing 737 757 and the last 17 years in the Airbus. This is gut-wrenching. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING! This was a complete cluster.
Should the stall warning say "Stall lover the nose" instead of just "Stall"
@@henryford2736 Yes. I don't know why those autopilots all have so short and sometimes confusing messages. But anyway, autopilots are supposed to be used not by ordinary people or children, but by professional pilots which should know how to fly the airliner and what to do when stall is heard. Who is pulling up in stall???
@@sugarsmith645 I think they clearly didn't believe the stall warnings as it made no sense that the stall warnings stopped when they pulled up and all their instruments were not making sense to them.
They receiving stall warning in recovery
And no stall indication in the stall.
How was that not an equipment failure
How was all the eroneous flight display information not a failure.
How is the fly by wire stick w no input or feeling and being unconnected to the other stick. Not a failure in design, what a piece of crap,. I can't believe you guys fly these junkers.
Also notice how these accidents take place at night, without any visible cues for the pilot. Visual cues in this case would have avoided the crash.
this is just fking scary
I got the impression that the pilots probably did know the stall warning was going off but didn't believe it since it was only happening when nose-down - backwards from what they would have expected
@Mentour Pilot, I am a fellow professional aviator and huge fan of your channel. I’m a retired US Air Force pilot and current teaching as an instructor on the Gulfstream 650, 500, and 600. I’ve memorized hundreds of mishaps that I bring into the classroom and your channel has been a magnificent source; I’ve sent all my clients to your channel and hope to send many more. GREAT WORK!! ~ Bill
I hope many of the totally inexplicable and inexcusable pilot driven mishap stories get drilled into their brains.
His outreach is wide and profound. Amazing work for the aviation industry Mr.Petter has done. Also thankyou for your service!
Good thing is your Gulfstreams provide artificial force feedback, the G500 and G600 have active sidesticks, providing feedback between both pilots and are speed stable aircraft instead of flight path stable, where flight path stable FBW in alternate law will maintain your nose up inputs until you stall. AF447 would have had a less likely chance of crashing had it been a modern Gulfstream that day.
Accident investigators have such a hard job. Not only trying to solve sometimes mysterious puzzles, but the frustration and helplessness of hearing and reading data that they know ends in disaster, and often realizing instantly what the pilots never realized, and yet not being able to communicate what they know to those to whom it would have made such a difference.
The BEA (French bureau investigation for transportation) is probably the best or one of the best in the world
I took some aviation maintenance classes a few years ago, hoping to get into the industry. Didn’t work out for myriad reasons.
I had an amazing instructor though, who had been an A&P mechanic for decades. He also briefly worked accident investigation and got sent to work the AA587 case, an Airbus A300 that crashed after takeoff from New York. The pilot flying snapped the tail off with excessive rudder inputs.
My instructor’s story was that he very quickly realized he didn’t have the stomach for that kind of work. They can prepare you for what you might see and hear at a crash site, but they can never prepare you for the smell, which I understand is absolutely horrific. The most noxious smoke imaginable combined with the stink of jet fuel and charred flesh. No thanks.
I have watched this video 3 times because it is by far THE BEST content regarding aviation and accidents on the web hands down! Thank you so much for the work you do Petter!
Great explanation! Can’t imagine the stress and fear the pilots must have felt in the last couple of minutes seeing the alt. meter go down fast before impact. I’m glad there has been improvement to the safety procedures after this accident and that we ultimately learned something very important from it.
Wow 56 mins of Petter explaining me this crash on a rainy Sunday. Could I even ask for a bigger treat?! One of the best story-tellers on UA-cam hands down.
Bigger treat about what
Exactly my day today! Getting battered by storm number I don’t remember at this point and just sitting on the couch listening to this and loving it!
I actually felt stressed as this story unfolded so I can only imagine what the pilots were going through. A tragic tale relayed to your audience so very well. Your content just gets better and better.
Nevermind the pilots, imagined what the passengers and cabin crew were thinking. Sure, I have some sympathy for the flight crew, the CVR recording is saddening to hear, and they didn't mean for it to happen. However, many have criticised that it was a series of basic errors by the junior Co-Pilot and the Captain didn't realise this until it was too late to recover.
So did I. The video juddering, showing the buffeting the airplane was experiencing, really made me feel the experience most viscerally.
@@SagaciousFrank Nevermind the pilots?
They died as well.
You should think before you write something down.
@@rf6724 , the pilots were the cause of the crash. I didn't say they deserved to die, did I? Of course you can feel sorry for them as well, but under the circumstances you can only begin to imagine the horror of being a passenger on that plane. You can get off your high horse and take my comment within the context of responding to the opening comment. If you were one of the passengers I doubt you'd have been concerned about how the pilots were feeling as you felt the plane plummeting from the sky, especially if you knew that one of them (though it was a team effort) was inadvertently in the process of causing your death through sheer incompetence.
Same, now remember that we saw that in ~20 minutes while it happened in ~4. It felt like ages for the Captain to come back after being called, but he did in less than a minute.
Although your topics are about accidents you still make me feel safe to fly by giving us insights into the training you guys go through. I like how you highlight different standards for different countries companies and how different they can be. This is one of the best channels I have found. You have an ability to put us right there into cockpit and the pilot's head.
Your videos are amazing! Just when your message starts to go over my head, you bring it back to my level of understanding. Thanks to you and your crew for providing top-notch videos that are free for anyone and everyone to view. I appreciate it so much!!
I'm a french engineer and in years 2007 and 2008, i designed new types of flight controls systems for small planes. (They would be your nightmare, but we could discuss this elsewhere, here is not the place for that).
I think there is a major understanding problem, between we (engineer that imagine new planes) and you, the pilots (that are using them).
All these instruments, all these warnings, all these display: we are calmly designing them in our office. We have no idea what it is to really pilot a plane. We have no idea what it is to be in an emergency situation, with doubt, without knowing what to rely on, and whith our human senses blured by the shaking of the plane.
What seems totally obvious to us, in the calm of our office ... seems to actually not be obvious at all in the real situation.
We (engineer) think that the most direct and the most explicit way to tell, you (the pilot) that the computer has no idea of what the real values are, is to turn the display off: because we think that display turned off means no value (no valid value). That's so obvious to us.
But here, in this accident, the 3 pilot did not understand that, and they though that it was a bug, a system malfunction.
(while turning the display off to tell the pilot the mesure value was wrong was actually a "feature")
Also, we assume that the pilot will have perfect training to understand the specific plane he is piloting, and will follow the procedures like a robot. But that's not the case. So, we should stop considering that some informations could be "obvious".
Here, there should have been a red flashing light, with the writing "pitot data inconsistant" or "speed data wrong". That way, the crew would have understood that it was not a computer bug: they would not have had this doubt.
Most engineer that design aircraft systems never pilot anything that flys. I do some paraglider freefly, but i don't use instruments: i only rely on my human senses to fly. I really can't imagine what's it's like to be unable to rely on these. We think the same as driving a car: in a car, you can do without instrument, just with your senses. But a plane seems to be more like a blind submarine, doomed without any instrument.
I think that the engineers that designed this airbus have assumed that in case of stall, the pilots would have "sensed" it in their body. In case off wrong pitch, gravity beeing what it is, they would have sense it in their body ... i guess the shaking of the plane, combined with the stress and adrenaline of the emergency prevented that.
Also, the lack of verbalisation of the pilots shows that they relied too much on considering their understanding as "obvious".
1 pilot alone could have been wrong. But for these 3 (experimented) pilot to be like that, without any clue all the time, that proves there is a problem with the displays that are unclear.
You guys are the best.
La compréhension de la manière dont fonctionne un ordinateur en général est déjà difficile. Un ordinateur qui n'a pas les bonnes données, encore plus ! L'interaction ordinateur/homme est un sujet aux développements infinis. Bon courage pour améliorer les relations entre ces deux "intelligences"! Nous ne sommes pas au bout de nos surprises...
Having the hugely important stall warning oscillate on/off as the emergency affects the data unreliable flag is also a major design weakness . Given the importance of this event, it would be prudent to update stall warning logic to not incorrectly tell pilots "stall recovered" when it's actually "stall got worse" .
Also, disregarding abnormal but truthful sensor inputs seems to be excessive use of incorrect logic in the adiro units, especially as the adiro gyros would be confirming the abnormal situation .
@@johndododoe1411 here I am reading and trying to make sense of your terminology but nothing made sense to me. Hats off to all of you who made the airline industry what it is today 🫡.
@@michellejones8144 I'm referring mostly to things in this video and other crash videos. I don't build aircraft systems but do have the engineering background, Adiro units (mentioned in the video) are separate computer boxes that have one job, and one job only: Figure out which way the plane is pointing and tell the main computers. Each adiro handles its own set of outside sensors and also contains a gyroscope measuring how the box and plane moves around it. Much of the confusion was caused by how the Adiros got confused and how the other computers displayed and misinterpreted the adiro output, in turn confusing the pilots. Many lessons should be learned from each mistake in the chain of events. For example if an adiro detects a sensor value dangerously out of range, it should specifically report that, and let the main computer report back "all other sensors agree, value is possibly real" . Similarly when an adiro corrects a calculated value (such as the altitude), other systems should not misinterpret that as an actual movement by the distance, such as "dropping 300 feet", nor should "unknown speed" get displayed as an artificially low speed.
I was so stressed listening to this. I can't imagine their absolute terror as they realised what was happening. You explained this so well x
I cannot imagine the amount of information you have to gather and the work you put into each one of these videos. I am totally absorbed and feel as though I am in that cockpit fighting alongside the pilots. Excellent!!
“Remember to fly the plane. If a startle happens; pitch and power will keep you safe.”
Excellent stuff here. Liked and subscribed.
One of the most tragic accidents in this century so far. Was waiting for it for long. Thank you for this amazing video.
Thank you for watching it, please let me know your thoughts after watching the whole video.
@@MentourPilot very nasty indeed ...French pilots seem to be weak under pressure
@@MentourPilot Really great graphics. In the early part of the video I was concerned you had decided to forgo video of yourself talking to us, so I was relieved when you came on. I think this gives a very important personal touch that you are seen speaking to us, and I would suggest you have a little bit of yourself in the intro rather than all fancy graphics. Overall congratulations to you, Dominic and team for your consistently high standard of content.
@@MentourPilot One of your best video's to date. I would have liked a little more callout on the final report -- like did it specially call out the on and off stall warning as something that needed to be fixed? Feels like the aircraft contributes to situational awareness loss instead of helping the pilots regain situational awareness.
@@argel1200 Agree on this. I’d like these videos to linger just a little bit longer on the aftermath, one what was actually learned, how it was implemented, etc. It is always mentioned, but a longer exposé here would perhaps provide more closure to such a horrific story.
This air disaster is definitely one of the saddest. The combination of how preventable it was, the fact that one of pilots wives sat in the back, the fact that seconds before impact the captain figured out the problem but it was too late and the transcript of the cockpit voice recorder. It’s all very haunting.
The Captain reversed in the last seconds and said pull up.
Even if the captain would have known right away, the two pilots in the seats were in full panic mode and wouldn't have listened.
After the AP disconnected, if they'd just flown the aircraft in the same config for 5-10mins they would have been fine too.
The virtual horizon was fine and there was no reason to suspect the trim was wrong.
@@anlumo1 It was worse than that. The investigation concluded that by the time the captain reached the cabin the plane was doomed. By then to get out of the deep stall before hitting the water they needed to transition to a steep power dive which would peak at a speed that would tear the wings off. A gentler stall recovery would take more time than they had.
Petter, I can´t thank you enough on your unselfish sharing of wisdom and insight on breaking down major catastrophies such as this one. Who in the non-professional pilot world would have heard of things such as alternate law. And since you are dead right when you say that in panic and stress, hearing is one of the first senses that gets shut out then just maybe there needs to be a faster clearer way to relate these time sensitive events ocurring on board to a place or system on ground, where rapid suggestions to overcome these problems are met with a fresh mind and calm, rational thinking that comes with the many years of experience so as to maybe avoid the inevitable. Just a thought since it´s unavoidable to imagine if you where by chance accompaning those pilots up there, maybe...just maybe the end story would have been defferent. A total different story is irreversible equipment damage but we can all gather in the end that a certain lack of instrument behavior and knowledge under these circumstances may have meant the difference.
Excellent video. Plenty of details and clarification.
Greetings from Brazil.
Thank you.
Having family members working at Air France, this accident has a bitter taste for me. Even though it happened 13 years ago, it remains a difficult wound for the company, and is still a reason why some crew members don't fly with their wives when having young children. My family members told me that they always have thoughts about their lost colleagues when flying the Paris-Rio and Rio-Paris routes. This is a tragedy that won't soon be forgotten.
Probably they should be better trained to act properly in stall situations. Full throttle and either leveling the aircraft or gentle decent (if you have enough altitude like in this episode) can easily fix the problem. If it's too hard to understand than why those people are pilots.
It’s one of those ones you never forget isn’t it, like Lockerbie for me. I was driving in the area at the time all those years ago.
I used to fly this route yearly (before Covid) to visit my family in Brazil and this accident always crosses my mind when I do. It definitely left its mark on the passengers as well.
@@andreypetrov4868 I cannot believe how stupid and inept both the first mates were. I get fatigue, but how long until it’s borderline flat out incompetence? I could have flown the damn bird
Unfortunately, for the sake of just in case, couples with young kids should avoid traveling together whenever possible. Just in case. Not just planes, but cars too.
I studied this accident for a long time back in 2012 and made a story telling for an italian aviation review. Your reconstruction here is the best that one can find on youtube and I thank you very much for being so clear, accurate and balanced. Really, thank you, it means a lot to me and I truly believe this is a great service to all the people who want to understand the AF447 case.
What is your opinion on the performance of the first officer and the team? For me as someone with experience in single engine flying it is horrific. You can easily fly an airplane with artificial horizon only. It takes a lot of focus if the conditions are very shaky but it’s doable..
@@Larsonaut I fly on single engine too but I think that a fly-by-wire airliner is another level. They were in complete darkness and received confusing feedbacks from their plane. This accident is all about bad human-machine interaction thus I definitely do not blame the pilots only. In instrumental flight, if you start doubting your instruments and readings, you may not be able to come out of the situation.
@@helenaziegler6005 if there are confusing instruments readings. I would trust first the artificial horizon, then altimeter and at last airspeed if no other more instrument specific indications are given
@@Larsonaut I've seen you asking the same question to a couple of commenters on this video, and the way you ask the question is quite loaded. Meaning, it feels you already have an answer to the question you ask and you want others to confirm it.
I think Helena gave you an extremely accurate answer, this accident is all about human-machine interaction. It is clear from the official outcome of the investigation that there were several actions needed to try to avoid a similar situation.
You thinking that this situation would be easily handled is a little bit disturbing, "hubris" is never the answer to catastrophic situations. Knowledge is... as Mentour Pilot shows through this video.
Reflect on the sad outcome of this, 228 people perished in this accident, and it is ABSOLTULELY CLEAR that the first officer did NOT willingly want this outcome, but hey, if you want a scapegoat, be my guest.
@@opius1199 please stay objective and don't get emotional. I expressed my opinion clearly and I wanted to hear from several people here who have more knowledge on that case.. Imo the first officer did a horrific job.
If you are flying straight and your throttle is at 85 and there is no problem with your engines. And your airspeed gives you strange data and your altimeter gives strange readings in a storm what do you do? Keep flying straight!
You know you have the same engine power and from the artificial horizon you know you are keeping your altitude.. it was a crazy error from a human in a surprising situation..
In such cases I think the problem is often that some pilots don't have the fundamentals of flying and of the technology deep enough in their brain to act in high stress situations..
I used to work on ADIRU software, we watched this closely from the first news we heard, and waited a long time for the FDR and CVR to be recovered to see if there was potentially a software error that contributed to the incident. The initial limited ADIRU faults transmitted indicated the ADIRUs performed as expected. This is another case supporting what the old engineer in the lab who investigated all devices that failed in the field said "these airplanes are so complicated you better hope you have a very good pilot every time you fly". When faults start happening, there is usually a cascade of faults and the crew needs to sort it out.