Who Would Canonically Win? - Sonic the Hedgehog vs Fox McCloud
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2023
- Who would win in a fight between Sonic the Hedgehog and Fox McCloud from Star Fox? Today we break down all of their abilities and have an animated battle to figure out the answer. Smash Bracket is an animated Vs Battle series created by InkThinks dedicated to answering the question... Who is canonically the strongest character in Super Smash Bros. History?
Check out Animation Composer here: misterhorse.com/?a_aid=SmashB...
Stay tuned for the music video from @TheVocalButcher over on their channel!
Credits:
Thumbnail Art by: SpideyHog
Animators:
@levitation5271
Discovery
@Omega7321
Yves
Hyozen
Gabriel M
Isaac X
Sprites:
Fox: Super Smash Flash 2 Team. Play SSF2 here www.supersmashflash.com/play/...
Sonic: mephilesthedark123
Voice Acting:
Sonic: Paxton Lee
Fox: KoltJoltVA
Falco: RedPeacock
Krystal: Mags
Slippy: InkThinks
Shadow: RedPeacock
Post Character???: RedPeacock
Music:
Written by: InkThinks
Vocals and Co-writing by: @TheVocalButcher
Guitar by: Wazmo
Drums by: Skye/TehGM - Розваги
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #97 ЧЁРНАЯ МАТЕРИЯ [Анти Скинт] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k4MjXCzKsYw/mqdefault.jpg)
Congrats again on FINALLY getting this beast of a video out, dudes! Pleasure working with y'all on this! And thanks for having me! 🤘
It’s the guy!!!
Awesome work on the music, man!
Awesome music, man, good job.👌🏽😁
IM GOING ALL THE WAY
@@ManInTheMicrowave69420 _PUSH THE PEDAL TO THE METAL! REACH ANOTHER LEVEL!!!_
Fight was oddly a lot more small scale than the previous. Makes sense in terms of Sonic's ideal win scenario, but feels odd when accounting for the crazy stats and feats being shown off.
Still, good fight and I appreciate the characterisation, Sonic goofing around a bit but still knowing when to fight seriously, and Fox having this quiet determination to do what he believes is right.
I believe a small scale would help fox a whole lot more ,a more open space would give sonic much less reason not to care for the surroundings and speed blitz and one shot fox.
In fairness, having lower-scale fights early in the bracket (at least in terms of their presentation and spectacle) will make for great contrast as the later fights ramp up the intensity.
If EVERY fight involving a Star Fox contestant had to go into space, their fights would get repetitive long before their final rounds.
@@finaldusk1821 true, it works in terms of presentation and the Smash Bracket series as a whole, still find it an issue of consistency with the fighters themselves though.
You didn’t go over sonics good feats
I find it funny how every time sonic cracked a joke he got his ass handed to him until he got revived by the chao
Had a ton of fun working on this with you guys! GGs!
I KNEW IT WAS YOU! Dude you really cooked with the voice acting
@@HoodedUlTi Thank you much! It’s been a bit since I recorded this, so it was almost like I was hearing it for the first time myself
Ngl man you NAILED the Sonic voice
Good job dude
Bro, as a Sonic voice actor, this was top tier! Amazing work my guy!
@@no_0riginality937 Thanks!
It's nice to see that Sonic and Fox are use the environments to their advantage.
26:29 As a Silver fan, I think watching Silver snatch and throw an Arwing clean out of the sky with his psychokinesis like that was the highlight of my day lol
Bro's abouta flip when he sees Silver later down the road in storymode...
@@thesilentshadow1256Don’t think there was any use saying that
@@HIM1242 I was just trying to get bro excited, since silver was going to re-appear with his own animated fight.
Can't say I agree with the Super Sonic logic (specifically him being less versatile than base Sonic), but aside from that it was still fun to watch the fight
Yeah I don't see how Sonic would lose his versatile powers just from being in super. And can't really agree that Fox's stuff is more powerful then anything Sonic's face. Not saying Fox's stuff wouldn't hurt, Fox could have something that could do some damage to Super, but I highly doubt it would one shot him like they say.
Right? Why would you consider the Super form worst than the base in any aspect? Is like say that "Ssj Goku would lose to Xxx but Base Goku would be able to defeat him because his more skilled".
.
Maybe he meant strategically. Like that Sonic doesn't have as versatile a mindset when in his super form? Or maybe he's referring to the fact that sonic can't use most of his powerups or any of his wisps when super.
@@ClashBluelight It might be the former, cause there's no reason Sonic can't use his other power ups. If he doesn't use them, it might be because he doesn't need to since his super handles most of his enemies
And so the most infamous episode's rematch finally comes out. You guys did an absolutely phenomenal job on this one. Basically everything I could say has already been said by other comments here. Wonderful job!
Honestly sonic was highly low-balled it's like they didn't care to really look at what he can do just what he can do casually
Agreed. They really said base sonic is more versatile than super 💀
yall sonic fans already got your win quit complaining 💀
@@LaguzFriendPlusCelica If you got paid less than what it was worth you wouldn't complain? 💀
It's not even complaining it's just pointing out the bias and lack or research. If they wanna take the time to do research then they need to do it.
Tbh I don’t think they lowballed super sonic I think they overlooked most of his feats
@@LaguzFriendPlusCelica
Man what’s the weather today? Feels quite windy in here. Don’t you guys think?
I’m excited for everyone to see this! The team put their entire heart and soul into this fight, and I really hope everyone sees that come through, whatever their hoped outcomes are!
~ Gordon Ramsey
Yeah
Sorry but I have to rip your video a new ass. 1. Sonic never had all chaos emerald so him going super wouldnt have happened. 2. When sonic feel to his death he would only have 1 homing jump which he had nothing to hom on to. Meaning that would have been a game over. 3. Sonic never collected a ring. So every time he got hit your video was ignoring the fight and rules of what both sonic and fox would be like. Lastly during the sonic knight form. All fox had to do was use reflect being the item has no limit / limit use. Sonic would have taken recoil damage. So your video has a ton of miss information and doesn't even follow the fight . I noticed more inconsistencies within the fight via team sonic. That honestly you should have reviewed the fight better before releasing the video.
@SpeedMan91 Question: What's stopping sonic from using chaos control and teleporting fox and his arwing into the sun? (sonic has teleported a planet before with the help of shadow.) Yeah I know it was in super form but seriously sonic can still use it in base.
@@josesus9152 The simple fact that its not in character. He'd teleport him out of the arwing, but not into something like the sun lol. TBH hed be more likely to teleport himself INTO the arwing and doing some lethal (and maybe illogical) hi-speed movement to destroy it from inside, like he does in cutscenes, shows, etc.
You guys really did your homework on this one. Feels like I got a full crash course in the character's history good job.
And the fight was super awesome as well great animation I love how it turned into a team fight at some point as well.
And I really liked how you didn't go for him using his super form which is in every animation and went for the lesser used Caliburn Golden knight form. was A nice change up.
Great job guys as per usual
Nice to see you here and I agree
Ima just say 1 thing about the homework comment...Fox's first Arwing survived a black hole...ink himself showed this in the original fight but he made Sonic's tiny black hole destroy like 5 Arwings
I know I said this in the live chat but you were a major part of my childhood,and you,death battle,smash bracket and other shows have inspired me to try to get me into drawing and animation,even if I kind of suck at it. Keep being awesome dude
They did their homework and then contradicted their own research with the result
@@Pyrothememelord Awww That's so nice to hear man keep at it and eventually you'll get better I suck at animation first so is just something you need to work on. And in time you'll get a good.
Now honestly this was amazing! The animation was a massive upgrade and the voice acting was great and I’m glad that the explanation was much better than the first one.
It’s nice to see you here and I agree
@@charsonic1771 Hey I love me a good sprite animation I’ve been watching them for almost all my life and I became one myself.
@@HeroTheHedgehog999 hey hero i am a extremely big fan i just got subscribe to your channel
@@reymarkmanaloto1143 Oh? I have fans now?
@@HeroTheHedgehog999 yes i always watch your content and every video you have
This is honestly one of the best sprite animations I've seen in a while. Shame I missed the premiere.
My main issue with this is that the emeralds broke, nothing says they can, and nothing says they can”t break, they emeralds also have different attributes then the master emerald,so there wouldn’t be any way for them to break, Super sonic would also resist elemental attacks and many of the R-wings abilities.
Super sonic again has also fought beings of much higher magnitudes such as the Egg wizard which had power to effect multiple dimensions, to the point Eggman and Eggman Nega stated it could rewrite multiple dimensions, including Maginary world,which is in the 4th dimension.
The Egg salamander was directly stated to be above the chaos emerald and sol emeralds combined, and each have been stated to have/carry infinite power.
The only reason super sonic and burning blaze won that fight was “teamwork/friendship” which is a thing that is shown to give a power boost, as seen in forces with double and triple boost as well as sonic heros.
Other than that, the fight and animation was amazing, you guys did a great job, and I’m really excited for what’s next.
play sonic battle
Yeah, even if Sonic wins now, with that analysis he probably will lose the next one
🤓
Doesn't they break in sonic battles
Im sure you know this already by now, but they break in sonic battle
That animation was absolutely phenomenal!! Definitely the best animation you guys made so far!
This was a great episode to watch. I still have a few issues with the research, like how Sonic's Detonate and Fox's Fire Bird were treated as instakills, the argument that the Super form limits Sonic's potential and arsenal, as well as some of the stats given for both, but research in versus is subjective. Either way, it was a fun battle and you even brought in what some of their behaviors would be into the fight. Keep on doing great things.
Sooooooo good!!! This episode was amazing. I can tell the team poured their entire heart and soul into this, and I think it turned out fantastically. My new favorite sprite episode of the show, amazing job everyone!!!!
I have to say I admire how you guys avoid characters taking the win through just raw power in both here and in Link vs Ridley. Most animations here on UA-cam escalate using powerups in a sort of DBZ style while your animations focus more on versatilty and how the characters' personalities and general approach to battle would effect their strategies.
Yeah that’s something death battle usually doesn’t Factor in the fight because they barely ever talk about motivations and morals and this would affect the fight by a mile stone.
@@nitrozeus6393the only time personality mattered in death battle was gojo vs makima
@@deroynwaokike4512 yeah
A great animation and a really interesting analysis. It's cool to see how much this team has grown in such a short amount of time.
Incredible episode, but by this episode's own logic, I don't think you can make a case for the Arwing ever beating Super Sonic. We know from the Solaris fight that in the rare occasion that a super state is damaged, they lose rings just like the characters would normally. Based on the # of rings the episode gives Sonic (999,999,999) and the minimum amount he loses every time his durability is exceeded(10), when compared Fox's strongest attack(2.48 x 10^21 joules) and Super Sonic's durability(32.5 x 10^18 joules), a max speed rolling attack would only make Super Sonic drop 736 of his 100,000,000 rings.
@Andre Babani There are two ways to analyze the fire bird and both make it useless in this fight.
A. It’s not an “instakill” and just a really powerful attack. Logically it can only be as strong as the most durable thing it’s destroyed (Arwings) which are less durable than Super Sonic
B. It does instantly kill an opponent regardless of durability. In this scenario, by Smash Bracket’s interpretation of rings, it just makes Super Sonic lose 10 rings.
The Arwing has no answer for Super Sonic as far as I am aware
They also pulled the real funny move of saying that a strong enough attack could burn through ALL of Sonic's Rings without actually providing evidence of this, awesome.
Seriously, I love this episode to death, but the actual research and analysis is heavily flawed in handling things like "Insta-kills" and basically all of the arguments made for Super Sonic, mainly him being less versatile and that he'd take too long to transform despite them saying it takes less than a second and when doing outside research, Sonic can literally transform without the need to expose the Emeralds (as seen in the genesis trilogy and in Mania).
And when doing even more outside research, the Chaos Emeralds are durable enough to stay completely intact after falling to Earth from Space as seen in the beginning of Unleashed
@@andrebabani7152 No limits fallacy
@@WrongJoke06Well tbh they did show that the emerald can be damaged or shattered
And the games does back it up with Knuckles shattering the master emerald in SA2 and them being grinded into a power source in Sonic battle
@@acasual1320Also now that you mentioned it
It did seem like they overlooked his Durability and versatility but tbh I’m not gonna give too much flack to them since they did work hard on this episdoe
26:58 This pose remiends me of the panel of Archie Sonic when he gets angry when Eggman said “Your at your limit” and I love it.
Damn this animation was perfect to every single detail. Total W for the animators as usual!
Ayo how's the super ultimate bro multiversal tree cooking up 😁
@@khalidsaeedali8756 pretty good so far thx
the research was terrible, but the animation was indeed nice
Hello my friend
While I enjoyed the fight and love that Sonic was finally able to snatch the win here (saving me from my anxiety), I feel confused on a lot of the takes they made here, and how they got to them. Stuff like, what's with the durability negation feats, the reason Super Sonic can't use other abilities, and the like?
As an extra note, I've seen that people were able to find feats like how Emerl can somewhat contain a level of power that could destroy stars, and base Sonic alone had no trouble beating him (feat from Sonic Battle). Even if this power was fading overtime, what's left to say for about 1% of that power still remaining for Emerl to use?
Things from the comics could technically be passed over for some extra explanations, like how the power of Chaos *is* considered magic there, and it being moreso an energy that Sonic could use, leading to stuff like how the Rings form a barrier for Sonic, and how Super Sonic can throw out his energy attacks in Frontiers.
the reason they said super sonic is less versatile is because the fight needs to be longer
@@andrebabani7152But they act as if Super Sonic is physically incapable of using any of Base Sonic's powers and abilities which straight up isn't true given how there is no canonical evidence to back this up. Super Sonic not being able to use things like the Wisps is most definitely just a gameplay thing rather than actual canon, as is Super Sonic not being able to use the Skills in Generations; the game would be too broken if Super Sonic were to be given the ability to use the Wisps/Skills.
Canonicaly though, there's no reason or explanation for Super Sonic being so restricted. I do not see how him going Super suddenly makes him lose all his previous abilities, that simply doesn't make sense.
@@andrebabani7152 I doubt Sonic is cocky enough to completely prohibit use of his previous abilities when they're necessary. Normally, I'd get why he wouldn't, but in a situation where they're needed or incredibly useful for that current situation I don't see him going "Meh, don't need em."
I like how for these remakes you take a very different approach to the loss than a lot would think like for Link vs Ridley instead of going Great Deity he uses a creative combo of his equipment to make Ridley vulnerable and for this one instead of Sonic going Super or Hyper and blitzing Fox instead it goes for his Excalibur form and takes Fox out then really good stuff and I can’t wait to see the other remakes coming out soon
This animation was a blast to see, I did expect the ending but man what a ride, the info of both was on point and leaves screwattack in shame, the personalities were on point and overall is a fantastic versus battle
Having seen the end credits, I now know why you asked us "who other than Joker would make a great Phantom Thief?" in that community poll!
Glad to see the scope of your research, and that both fighters were given due respect in this competition! Epic animation, great choreography, solid dialogue (though the voice acting left a bit to be desired at some points), this was an amazing episode overall.
“Close matchup” my ass mate
Can tell this was a real passion project, great job!
Jeez, didn't expect the ending to be that brutal. I'm happy for my boy Sonic, and Fox did really well too! The analysis was probably one of my favorites you've ever done and the animation was really sick. Amazing rigging, voice acting, track, and overall everything. I loved the tag-team feel this one had, just overall a really epic fight. I can tell you and your team put a ton of effort into this, and I hope you are all happy with how this turned out. I know I am! Overall I'd give this episode a 9/10 for now, nothing I found as outstanding as some of my other favorites, but nothing really major that drags it down. With all that said and done...............I CAN"T TELL YOU HOW HYPED I AM FOR RED VS NESS!!!!!! Trainer is my smash main and while I am 70% sure he will get obliterated, Wario vs Lucas gives me a little hope that Ness isn't as OP as some make him out to be lmao. I'm sure it will be one of if not my new favorite episode, due to sheer bias of course. So excited for Red vs Sans, and its just so awesome to see how far this series has some Ink.
Wouldn’t really say it was brutal. Check the end of the video for context.
@@breathableair3482 Yeah I started to write the first part as the video was ending and just didn't feel like editing it tbh
I really love that Spiderverse intro for Sonic it was really creative/way past cool!🔥
I like how this series went from not having any lore to having a lot of lore
Beautiful analysis, animation and rundown. These retouches of sonic and fox make me even more excited for when megaman vs mario happens again, need see the mushroom muncher show off more then did in the original, win or lose im so looking forward to it.
This was an awesome battle and I really like the animation even the voice acting as well
I’ve even reacted to this battle
like how this animation took a break from the traditionally hardcore anime-esc fighting that is in the sprite community today in turn for something that seemingly mimics the more 'western Saturday morning cartoon' feeling. It's fight scenes, timing, and even classic-esc rock theme that plays. It's all pretty good! Hope to see more.
32:27 wtf, the only 2 beings that could even hurt super sonic were Dark Gaia and Solaris. Their raw power is stronger than what the arwing could ever do to super sonic.
We know it. But it's a show, I did one of Mario vs Sonic with this argoument but ok...
Fax, but remember there ruleset make those feats redundant. But if we apply the story of the games then the Solaris feat would be his best feat.
There’s at least three other beings that hurt Super Sonic.
The first being Eggman’s Big Arms from Sonic 3 (though due to Eggman being the one canonically responsible for the game-breaking glitches on initial release, this could be an outlier). The second one is Egg Salamander from Sonic Rush (a mech used by Eggman and Eggman Nega powered by the Power of the Stars, a primordial cosmic power that holds the Sonic multiverse together); Eggman’s missile barrages knock off rings from Super Sonic while Eggman Nega can rip holes in space-time that collapse into themselves to catch Burning Blaze within. Last one is the Phantom Ruby, though it’s mostly hax than raw power; Phantom King’s charged-up energy ball attacks can hurt Super Sonic while simply touching the jewel itself undid the super form on contact.
OMG, Sonic was able to defeat powerful beings by hurting their WEAK POINTS.
That doesn't make him much stronger than them, plus the multiversal enemies that the Sonic community mentions are very overrated in terms of power. LOL
@@BonnieFlores 🤡
Analysis was great! I loved how you guys included tons of their arsenals!
The fight also has to be one of my favorite Sonic sprite fights, since he uses lots of his arsenal!
Super unique fight and amazing analysis and breakdowns!
I don't understand, are you saying Super Sonic can't use his base abilities in his super form? Because he can and in fact those abilities are heightened.
Super sonic in the games always rams head first into his enemy’s and Sonic isn’t likely to use Super sonic in a situation like this
@@nitrozeus6393 Are you stupid ? Super sonic in frontier can use all his abilities he got in base + chaos control
@@Aigle662frileux fox is immune to time stop so chaos crontrol does not matter here.
Amazing episode. While I still love the og episode, this one is an improvement on every thing. Especially learning even more about foxes history. Over all a 9.5/10. Everyone involved in smash bracket is super talented and committed.
i give it an 8.5 (fox analysis and animation carried) def not as good to eat pit vs Samus or link vs ridley's dust.
I should probably mention. In Sonic Colors DS, which is canon in terms of information, Sonic says that the speed of light is EASY for him.
I agree with sonic being light speed but not colors ds being cannon to the main line series. What I believe is that there is a good future timeline and a bad future timeline. The bad future is the sonic frontiers one and the good future is the sonic colors ds sonic generations ds one.
@ dude. Sega themselves have said that EVERYTHING in the games is canon. And they’re even trying to make a more connected universe, so even things like Sonic Prime are canon. Also, the IDW are canon since Frontiers mentions multiple characters from them. Although there are things that won’t ever be canon like the Archie comics or the older shows.
@sonic colors ds is canon because the wisp of the ds version (burst and void) sonic in end cutscene of the wii version and generation ds is also canon
Super Smash Flash 2 was such a good flash game as a kid.
Wow, this honestly was definitely/very interesting to say the least.
At the end of Fox's analysis,
I felt pretty bad for him at first,
But after he made up with Crystal and his friends and saved the universe,
I felt happy for him then.
Also this animation was definitely, in Sonic's own words,
"Way past cool!", And it definitely had me on the ropes, that and the Post-Analysis did.
Even though it may or may not have been a simulation,
It wasn't just a fight, it was a war,
Which was another thing that made it great.
Overall, this rematch was definitely worth it
And I did love it all.
And it did make me realize that Sonic and Fox are actually a bit similar in at least a few ways as well.
So, again, worth the wait, loved it.
Great job, well done.
Thank you, Smash Bracket, very cool.
Yeesh this was well done. Not sure I agree with your opinion on super sonic but aside from that. Plot, characterization, and choreography was on point!
One thing I wish I would have mentioned before if I haven't already is the brilliant use of the starlink technology within the fight.
How fox in this combat scenario was using them so fluently and strategically was extremely pawsome!!!!
I'm actually glad you guys implemented that into the fight because it was so fun to watch and knowing Fox and his tactical leadership would know how to use them rather fluently and certain combat scenarios even if he was panicked he would do what he could with what he had.
I know I'm commenting a lot on this fight and I hope it ain't too much but I once again got to say, congratulations on this epic animation🎉
Always excited to see future Star Fox and even Zelda related fights.
though I am curious about one thing, out of all of the Star Fox games which one is your particular fav and why?
Awesome video!
I loved every single part of this video. It was fascinating to learn the backstory of fox and sonic, and the animating is fantastic! Bravo!
That was amazing!
I loved every minute of it.
Sure I think some things could've been done differently, but goddamn I am not complaining over minor nitpicks, this has heart and soul in it.
Amazing job to everyone in the team, and boy, am I excited for the next one.
Well... Incineroar and Mewtwo got stomped
@@unsasakiconsombrero6948 I’m not sure if it’s only the Pokémon we see in Smash or every Pokémon on red’s team. Granted that would cause some issues like if he goes against Pikachu somewhere along the line and Red also has Pikachu. The Lucas analysis really would help us gauge Ness’s power, since the are similar(I think, haven’t played to game), and he lost to Wario(although it was extremely close). Red is also a master strategist, which very much matters.
Oh well don't worry I like both the fist one and now the second one, you and your crew are amazing for keeping up all of the animations, fights, and research
I can’t wait to watch!
This was actually a great fight
So the characters are aware they're in a bracket, but their personalities will still affect to what lengths they'll go to get the win (ie Sonic preferring nonlethal methods or to tease his opponent even when he could probably blitz most of the cast before they can move). Hoping villains will get a bit of an edge here because of their willingness to win at any cost and finally have their time to shine, even though they canonically lose to their heroes.
With all the story stuff happening in the background it's less clear that this is a tournament that the characters are aware they're in, but it does make for a cinematic experience. Very interesting analysis too, great work!
The Fight was amazing and so well done.
Congrats, bro! I love this videos about Sonic the Hedgehog and Star Fox McCloud. 😊
I don’t remember the emeralds being that fragile to attacks..
But really cool fight and breakdown. I could see there was a lot of heart put into this. Well done
I don't think they would be to simple lasers, and Sonic should have transformed before they even hit in my opinion. But Knuckles in his base form did shatter the Master Emerald with one hit.
@@22kingdomheartsfan I think the knuckles braking the master emerald thing is because he is more connected to chaos energy
@RooByrne Sure he's strong, but strong enough to break an object that can basically tell the Emeralds to shut off, in his base state? Unless you go by that outlier feat of him knocking the Super out of Sonic.
@@22kingdomheartsfan actually it isn’t an outlier. Remember knuckles is connected with the master emerald thus he would be able to easily shatter or knock super sonic out of his state
Also knuckles has been stated that his strength is the equivalent to sonics speed which can be infinite or immeasurable speed so it makes sense that knuckles can shatter it or the fact hes the guardian
The scene going from Krystal with the sexy saxophone at 20:26 to Andross' undulating face is probably one of the most unintentionally funny things I've ever seen.
Never did I think the spiderverse intro would fit so well with sonic.
I thank the great UA-cam recommendations for blessing me with the most entertaining animations I’ve seen in years.
Great video. Minor nitpick here, but it wasn't mentioned that Super Sonic has taken hits from The End, who claims to be capable of destroying stars (and we also see it destroying a planet)
Surviving Solaris is more impressive than that, considering it destroyed existence by just standing still.
@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 the rules of the smash bracket don't use statements and the feats needs to be measured which solaris can't be measured
@@truespeed8699 It wasn’t just a statement though. Just look at the area where you fight the boss. It’s just nothing. The battle with Solaris took place in a void because there was nothing left.
And still, he has other feats. Such as beating Emerl in a fight in Sonic Battle.
Eggman blew up multiple stars with the Final Egg Blaster, Emerl absorbed that power, and then went insane. Sonic still beat him in seconds.
@@g.masterlordoftheg-force4770 that one doesn't show the stars being destroyed because of the technical limitations or something so it's still a statement. Also it's still can't be measured since it destroyes everything meaning space and time. Which can't be measured since it's an entire dimensional tier above our own
@@truespeed8699 But even if it wasn’t shown, it happened. Eggman saw it happen, and Emerl saw it too. Only thing unknown is how many stars or their size. All we know is that it was multiple stars. That’s it.
Let’s not forget that Emerl also clearly reacted to the energy.
As for the Solaris thing, even if we can’t measure it, we do know one thing. Super forms have survived something that can end the universe. I don’t need math to know that’s impressive. And logically, they should be capable of surviving things that are not strong enough to end the universe.
Gotta say, was not expecting a Black Knight reference to be the deciding factor
Great video keep up the good work
This fight did something so interesting 🙌🏾.. Using Sonics other forms in the fight makes sense
26:01 I appreciate allot of sonic va's officel or fan made. but it's the one's that can capture both his positivity and ANGER through emotion like this is what reminds me why i like the character and shows that he's not just the nice calm cool guy, he's short tempered and has an attitude. but most media doesn't depict that side of him anymore, especially the times where he does get mad but shrugs off his frustration and acts like nothing happened. Relying on his positive and smug side instead of just balancing them both out.
Spoilers for da fight
Cool fight, glad to see Sonic take the dub. A few questions tho:
- Why is 'one-shot' or 'one hit kill' weapons/abilities taken at face value when 'invincible' or 'invulnerable' abilities are only taken at their max durability? If the rationale is that nothing is invincible and that everything in the verse that has stood up to a specific ability is simply less than said ability's durability, couldn't the same be said for 'one-shot' skills? Operating under the same logic, 'one shot' skills should only be as strong as the most durable thing it's defeated, and shouldn't be considered hax. The only move Fox would have that could beat Super Sonic in that scenario is the spinning thing, which you mention he has to travel in a straight line across the Solar System to accomplish.
- Even if Fox decided to try to destroy the emeralds (which contextually is a little meta considering that he shouldn't even know if the emeralds are going to help Sonic OR if he could/should destroy them), couldn't he restore them via chaos control? We see him do something similar in Sonic Adventure when he uses his positive energy to restore the power of the chaos emeralds. Notably, Knuckles is in the exact same scene (and is a good person with friends, just like Sonic), but he encouraged Sonic to fix the emeralds instead of doing it himself. That would insinuate that Sonic is at least as effective at doing this kind of thing as he is, and Knuckles fixed the master emerald. Somewhat shaky reasoning, but it falls in line with how Sonic abilities typically operate.
- If base Sonic can already one shot the arwing, shouldn't Super Sonic, who is much faster and stronger than base Sonic, be able to end the fight pretty quickly and take out all 13 of Fox's arwings before Fox could do anything? Especially given that Super Sonic is capable of more long range fighting than before with his abilities from Sonic Frontiers. I especially want to call attention to saying that "Super Sonic would bash the arwing over and over and take himself out of the fight" when y'all mentioned earlier that base Sonic could take it out in one blow.
- Another small thing but given that lava, space, and other extremely dangerous extremes can't damage Super Sonic, I'm a little surprised that absolute zero is where Super Sonic's durability would cap out at according to you guys. Especially considering how base Sonic can already deal with being frozen as he does in Sonic X, Sonic 3, Sonic Mania, etc.
- Also, there's a very clear time period between the time that Fox's ships are destroyed and the formation of a new one. If we're applying a time period for Sonic to turn Super, then why isn't the same time period thing used with Fox's arwings?
- Outside of wisps, as they are transformations, most of Sonic's kit is still accessible while in Super Sonic - so couldn't he use them while Super to win if he sees that things are going downhill? Also, Super Sonic can time stop, so I'm a little confused at where the idea that Fox can also use time stop is a notable advantage vs. Super? Also, SS could just use a wisp and then transform back into Super, but I digress.
- Lastly, Sonic (and by extension Super Sonic) should be way faster than light. You're probably going to hear this a LOT, so I apologise lol, but a simple explanation I have for this is that Sonic outran a cyan wisp, who is confirmed FTL. Also surprised at the lack of Solaris scaling, as harming a 5D being should probably count for something, but I digress (again lol). Sonic is also faster than the Light Speed Attack in Unleashed, which you can check using the SPD gauge. These are all just examples outside of the multiple statements from various official sources that claim he's FTL, but I figure y'all probably don't give much weight to them - just figured I'd bring it up regardless. Small tangent, but in a similar vein to speed it isn't unfeasible to say that Super Sonic could reach verse-level destruction capabilities given him beating the Egg Wizard and having his own attacks be stronger than Solaris's reflected attacks.
Anyway, if y'all ever make a Q&A and/or followup to this, I'd like to see a few of these questions answered if y'all have the time to. Mostly only spoke about Sonic since I know him the most, but please feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong about Fox in my questions. I imagine y'all already have your hands full with all of the questions concerning Sonic/SS scaling to the likes of Merlina/Alf Wala-whatever/Infinite/Solaris/Time Eater/etc. lol, so I'll call it here. Thanks for the awesome video!
Hey Mr.Einstein this is a Show , we know already all the stuff but enjoy the show.
@@GcmAstro97 This is like half of the point of the show lol, they spent months doing genuine research for this. I think its fair for me to ask a few questions, though they ofc aren't required to answer.
@@xenozades ah sure
The only disagreement I have is the difference between being frozen and absolute zero is easily worse than relaxing in the snow and your blood boiling from the air temperature. Still, I agree abs zero shouldnt effect super sonic. Otherwise agreed.
Good researcg
Probably the best episode you guys have made, absolutely loved it and from what I see when Sonic returns he will be fighting Joker which I am absolutely ecstatic I literally can’t wait for it
Joker says, "we need your help," and gives Sonic the shards. I don't think they're gonna fight.
@@red5158077 well, same thing happened with Ken and Terry and yet they still fought sooo…
@The Dark Lore Master I don't think they'll fight. Joker giving Sonic the shards should tell him that they come in peace.
This is one of my second favorite Sprite battle channels aside from Death battle
I don't entirely agree with certain things said on Sonic's part, I feel some things did got downplayed a bit, like his invulnerability in Super form, but that was a cool fight nonetheless.
They were downplayed a lot.
@????
Bruh, How can you tell you don't know Fox's capabilities and his weapons/tools, lol
That Spiderverse reference was god tier and the episode in general was just beautiful great job to everyone on the team
where do you see it at
@@JAZZSEVENCODED it was at the start of Sonic’s analysis
Now I see it now
Two of my favorite franchises in one video I needed this
I will say, the animation was great. I enjoyed the voice acting from both Fox and Sonic as well as the use of abilities from different games. I am much more pleased with this accurate outcome but regardless, well down! 👏
Nobody:
Super sonic literally taking down gods, titans, multiverse destroying entities, time eaters, and more: 🍷 🗿
Nobody again:
Base sonic outrunning a black hole, beating a chaos god, falling from space without even a scratch, destroying giant robots and more: 🍷 🗿
Sonic hasn't beaten Multiversal enemies bruh. And everything u just named Fox has feats of as well
@@thegreatestever913 Solaris from sonic 2006
@@Screen_solar show me evidence he's multiversal
@@thegreatestever913 ua-cam.com/video/rSLXOOCu69g/v-deo.htmlsi=ZoxlB8Jf2ShPNDdk
@@thegreatestever913 also let’s not forget the fact sonic is constantly growing as said in sonic forces and even more proven when in sonic adventure 1 he had to go super to beat perfect chaos and in generations he did it in his base form therefor sonic is way stronger now that when he beat Solaris
Good on Fox for not letting his opponent transform before attacking.
But at what cost?
I don't think that's how Chaos Emeralds works.
Even though emeralds don't take a long time for him to transform.
LOL!!!
@@sakuraitenryuu Apparently, and surprisingly, they do. As shown in Sonic Battle.
@@byronlyons3548 Sonic never transformed in Sonic Battle, He beat Emerl the Gizoid with all seven in less than 30 seconds. I don't think Sonic even needed to bust out the emeralds to begin with, his arsenal was already powerful enough and far wider than Fox's.
the fact you used excalibur as the final shot is perfect
This was so awesome
26:03 found the obligatory Kirby getting hurt scene in this fight, your welcome everyone
I was thinking, Sonic can blitz Fox before he could even get in his Arwing. And that';s true. Right?
came back to watch the animation again, and even the second time around it is an epic party of pure speed and action😊
I honestly feel like sonic was extremely low balled here, when base sonic has moved faster than light at multiple points in the series and it’s been made a clear point that he can’t go at max speed all the time because he’d harm the environment around him.
Sonic’s durability also feels needed in base as it surviving a black whole after destroying the Nega-wisp armor (which he also outran for an extended period of time putting him at FTL speeds in base)
I also don’t understand how fox’s gun could break the Emeralds. Using knuckles as an example removes the context of that scene. Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald and also has many powers associated with the emeralds. He was able to use said power to break apart the Master Emerald. Something only he, and chaos have been able to do, and Chaos is a literal god of destruction.
I like the animation and the personality put into both characters but it really is just a stomp in Sonic’s favor.
I love how this video gives more recognition of Shadow's jet boots & that he can literally fly then SEGA
I get the ending, but what happened to those small creatures that could revive fox for 9 times or something? Great episode regardless
@@floatingf8783 But it sonic could use the chaos, then what differentiates the two cute revival beings?
@@Meta-Wah one did die the other didn't
@@floatingf8783 I'm actually glad to see Fox is still alive.
Sad that he lost as he's my favorite character than Sonic, though I knew Sonic would win, at least he's still alive.
Nice using Excalibur there that was great! Can't wait for ness vs Pokémon trainer!
You did far better at doing research then Death Battle, I'm impressed.
Cool!
Good video, but your argument on Super Sonic being less effective than base Sonic is something I highly disagree on.
I think Sonic Frontiers already tells us that Super Sonic can in fact do everything Base Sonic can do, but better
More to the point, they neglected the fact that Sonic can use Chaos Control off even a fake Chaos Emerald. So what’s stopping him from halting time to dismantle an Arwing by hand or bending space to make it crash? Hell, a couple Chaos Emerald shards or some spare Chaos Drives should do the trick. Not to mention that the old game Sonic Blast establishes that Sonic (… & Knuckles) can produce 99 Rings out of nothing with a single Chaos Emerald, on top of the Cyloop shenanigans from Sonic Frontiers. Meaning that Sonic is a lot more liable to gain rings much faster than Fox could ever deplete them if we’re going that route.
@@floatingf8783 You didn’t counter the point about bending space, to teleport the Arwin into a star or black hole. Okay, too far. Wings phased partway into a mountain seems more apt.
@@mayborneflower and he forgot the immeasurable speed of super sonic, he dodges solaris' attacks, attacks that transcend linear time and existed throughout existence, and even hit solaris before he reacted
@@mayborneflower and solaris can move through timelines by sheer speed
@@joseacassio4164 We really don’t need to take it that far. The Smash Bracket guys made a point of incorporating Sonic X into their analysis. The same Sonic X where Sonic casual jumped around scientifically accurate lasers already fired while trained on him, and where Super Sonic busted up a space armada across interstellar distances during his battle with Dark Oak (which, granted, he lost but still). 0.02c my ass.
This episode was amazing
The fight was awesome but goodness the fight music is just so amazing
This was easily the best episode of the show, disappointed my 4th main lost? Of course. Do I discount this absolute beast of a video? Hell no! It's amazing!
This is like the most in depth fight analysis I ever heard. But it’s a good thing. Some fights just aren’t as straight forward and lots of different scenarios need to be addressed.
Another thing going In sonic’s favor is the fact that he can easily reflect projectiles both in base form and super form since fox obviously uses a lot of projectiles.
I know reflecting projectiles was brought up for sonic but I don’t think it was brought up as a major benefit against fox’s common arsenal
After 2 surprisingly short years. It is decided
honestly this is the most interesting "vs Sonic" animation i've seen, never seen a fight where destroying the emeralds was considered
Did they really use RINGS, a literal game mechanic for research?
💀, yes by that logic Fox's rings should've been included. I'm expecting Fox to work his way back to the top lol
Rings aren't even a "game mechanic" yes, the rings are canon in sonics universe.
@@KobeOrBrandon it's a game mechanic just like Kirby's mini game of hitting a meteor 9999 lightyears away. Sonic in his world isn't casually collecting 100+ gold rings reviving himself. Just like Fox isn't going around flying thru rings restoring his armor. It's a game mechanic for players to get health just like Kratos from GOW opening green chest for health and getting red orbs for upgrades
@@thegreatestever913 rings are represented in the idw comics and the movies, since the comics are now canon its true.
@@KobeOrBrandon yeahhh no
I personally agree with the outcome I disagree with some of the stats like the speed of sonic, the Cyan Laser wisp is ftl and sonic can out pace it and remember he did restore time and space with his speed in generations when everything was white space
Bro that was epic
One thing I sorta wish you mentioned was Chaos Control, mainly it's ability to teleport. But the fight was fun and the analysis was good
To those who were harassing Sonic fans because [insert prediction of who would win here], let's sit back and watch the video. We can see who actually wins, The Greatest Ever!
Look at Fox's stats compared to Wolf's stats and tell me again Sonic won "fair and square"...Wolf was scaled far stronger and faster than Sonic and Fox beat Wolf's entire team by himself in Star Fox Zero...ink didn't have integrity going into this battle so enjoy your catered victory lol
Bruh scaled Sonic to Planetary bcuz of Sonic X episode 78 even tho 1 Shadow literally helped and protected sonic and 2 that planet was smaller than a moon
This video has so many flaws and holes in it it's honestly making me mad
Hot diggity dang this is incredible! Great job to everybody involved! You gave it your all!
This is so cool
Damn, the seeding for this tournament is kinda wack. No way we had this intense fight for round 1 of smash bracket
Update: In sonic unleashed sonic runs 9 times faster than light speed in base. So Fox never stood a chance
Honestly I wasn’t to sure about Fox destroying the emeralds since sonic hadn’t really used any of his power ups before and it almost seemed like you were just gonna give Fox plot amour. But it was fun watching sonic use the wisps and Excalibur to his advantage.
(Also one small detail you got wrong. Base Sonic has surpassed the speed of light even without the light speed dash shoes. See Sonic colours for the DS)
They know that statement in the DS exist, they don’t take it into account because it’s not a feat. I’m also pretty sure they think the statement is vague.
@@axiom6000There's still plenty of other times where he's had ftl feats and statements so it ultimately doesn't matter.
@@MrKing-he3eo Again, they don’t value statements even when they come from credible sources(aka not the characters)
@@axiom6000 Statements are statements. The writers wrote the characters to say them. That's like saying the grand priest from dragon ball isn't above whis because its only been stated. If they want to do actual research and try to be fair you have to evaluate everything. Not just cherry pick the ones you want to use. Again like I said there's plenty of statements including non character ones even though they're just as important. It's clear that they lowballed sonic. Good animation but analysis isn't as accurate as it should be.
@@MrKing-he3eo Yeah, I agree, just for a different reason. If there’s reason to believe a character is lying or being hyperbolic then we shouldn’t take their statements into account. But if there’s no reason for the character to lie(for example the fate of the world is on the line) and they have shown to be an expert on the topic, we should trust them. Their rule on statements is silly, and their lightspeed criteria is silly, but hey, what can I do?
OMG ink that was such a másterpiece i dont know how you Will top this but man this IS ah easy 10/10 for me, one of muy favourite episodes in Any vs show
The post credits scene, I'd say that I never saw it coming, but I could say that for like... half of the video.
Honestly, I'm glad Sonic won. Sure, I was worried for a bit when I heard Fox's analysis, but I Sonic would prevail. Though, while I didn't expect things like other forms besides super and hyper, the mass amount of power ups and abilities, the emeralds getting destroyed, and the friends joining for both sides this is still amazing. Honesty, I'm glad the other forms got some recognition. Though to be real I don't expect Sonic to win or get that far past 3rd, 4th, or 5th round, tbh though if he does, that'll be amazing. Keep up the good work. I can't wait for the next fight.