Modified Jeep Gladiator Mojave vs. Stock 2005 Acura MDX in Berdoo Canyon Road. Surprising result?
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- This video may trigger some people, because... you might not agree with what I think is the truth. Maybe you'll think of me as a bubble burster. I just want to bring to light that... YES there is a difference between AWD and 4WD, and NO a modified AWD will not match or exceed an off-road trim version of a dedicated 4WD offroader in capability. Does this matter for overlanding? NO, because conquering obstacles isn't the goal. Choose what vehicle suits you best. Offroad capability vs. Onroad handling and efficiency.
I drive an AWD, and I've taken it to places like Imogene Pass in Colorado, Funnel lake in the Eastern Sierras of California, and to the most difficult trail I've ever been on, ALL 9 MILES of the Fins N things trail in Moab, Utah, but I'm not going to over sensationalize the AWDs capabilities of my ride. I'm just happy my vehicle is able to take me to all those above mentioned overlanding destinations and makes a good daily driver. I definitely didn't buy my Honda to beat a 4runner TRD Off-road. So, let's do a silly comparison....
HEAVILY MODIFIED JEEP GLADIATOR MOJAVE ON 37s TIRES VS. STOCK 2005 ACURA MDX ON 30s.
In this video, you'll see a stock 2005 Acura MDX take on terrain more difficult than modified AWDs that claim they can follow a Jeep Wrangler to 90% of all places.
So I hope you stick around until the end of the video. I have an important reminder for my fellow overlanders. It doesn't matter what you drive, just stay within your vehicles capabilities, you'll get to see some really cool places. Overlanding is not about conquering obstacles, it's about exploration, self reliance, learning about the place you visit, and learning about yourself.
Navigation:
00:00 Intro
01:13 trail Start (Berdoo Canyon Rd)
02:14 optional deep rutted climb
03:45 1st obstacle Jeep Gladiator
05:34 reason for this silly comparison :P
08:40 1st obstacle Honda Passport
11:08 1st obstacle Stock 2005 Acura MDX
13:53 Avoiding a difficult offshoot (bcuz, overlanding)
15:01 Last Obstacle
19:15 Stock 2005 Acura MDX takes on the final obstacle
19:48 Closing
Big thanks to the following people for providing extra video footage: John Patalinghug and Alex!
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MDX driver is very comfortable with his vehicle. These obstacles actually looks worst in person lol. Just did this trail with my buddy on his renegade and did very well. These AWDs with good drivers and spotters can go pretty far. Great work!!
I have a 2003 pilot - basically the same thing as this MDX. I am never not amazed at how well it actually off roads, when I get it out on the more precarious trails. I just wish it had more aftermarket options and that I had more cash to spend on it.
@honda Pilot overland has a pretty built out 1st Gen Pilot 😃
The transmission in a 2003-2004 will fail in due time. They were under designed for a 3.5L and pushing up steep climbs WILL kill it sooner.
@@Skruteas I have over 400,000k on mine. runs like new, doesn't burn or leak a drop of anything. Not many vehicles from that era are even on the road today.
Some units of 1st gen had an issue with the transmission where the fluid didn't circulate properly and caused overheating - but this only affected certain units.
Any transmission will fail in "due time".
Best vehicle for off road exploration...the one you have. 👌
Love it! Know your limits, your vehicle limits, and what the weather allows you to complete. Most of all have fun!
You realize the pilot and mdx are basically the same.
Man your spotters are fantastic and your driving skills are too! Great video!
I don’t think I drive well at all, most of that is the Honda 🤣
Great video man!! I have a 2006 mdx myself and absolutely love it.
Great video Jon!!! Well put with what your comfortable with !! Such good info for people!!!
Thanks Nick! ❤️
Happy I came across this video before last week. Took my stock 2018 Forester (manual transmission) with skid plates up the canyon, but took breaks to avoid overheating. Best part was talking to a Jeep driver and him being shocked that I was almost at the top when I bumped into him. Just ordered a transmission temp checker and transmission oil cooler to be more prepared for the next trip.
The 05 mdx also should be equipped with a rear e locker you aren't using
yeah Jon....you hit the mark again...interesting, entertaining and REAL. I always appreciate your non-sensationalized, practical and cautious perspective.
Thanks for the kind words Mr. Hardman!
Came back to this trying to show a friend how much it’s changed. And dam that Jeep 🫣
Fun trip
Riding brakes had kids in the rig that got car sick.
Love going out with the group. Lots of fun. Make sure camping get the right gear to stay warm. Family and I had a cold night in the tent ended up sleeping in the truck that had to run the rig almost every 30 so minute for heater. Every trip we are learning. And thank you for the group for sticking together.
That’s one of the most rewarding things about this lifestyle, everything you learn. You also learn more about yourself and grow in other aspects. I look forward to our next adventure.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Love having your company awsome to meet the misses. And i hope to continue tp learn more every trip in the future.
@@AlexTouch1990 You did great and that gladiator will out climb any AWD out there. You will get used to how to drive it the more you go out. That is a badass rig. I bet your wife can out-climb any of them AWD vehicles LOL. Don’t get me wrong, the AWD’s are cool but they are not meant to get beat up like that. They won’t last as long as a 4WD. Transmission failures are a given in the AWD world of over-landing. You only had your gladiator for a couple months off roading and I think you two are doing great.
Holy poop. I just finished the video. What you said there at the end about guiding new people into the right vehicle that fits them best, was spot on. Makes perfect sense. I would like the video twice if I could.
Just took a co-worker out to Hungry Valley in his 2020 MDX… he happens to be the designer of the MDX in your vid! We threw on some 265/65r17 AT tires and had a blast… Berdoo and Anza are next on the list. Im trying to get more co-workers out on the trails with some Honda / Acuras 😉
Excellent stuff! We don’t really use AWDs in our videos, but I’d love to get some. Good stuff man!
Loved watching this video. I love my 2004 Honda MDX.
i got a full time trans temp gauge on my a pillar and monitoring those trans temps are very important for travel, offroading, hills. Went to big bear this weekend and saw my temp climb to 200 and i was just doing 25mph but the elevation.
Wow, some of those spots are hella tight. Excellent driving and notes, I learned a lot virtually from your videos. Like you, I just drive my daily. I can have a lot of fun, just need to be aware of my limitations.
it's always a good idea to go with others. An extra set of eyes and a pair of helping hands will go along way, literally! :P
Jon isn’t just overlanding nows he’s off roading haha and overlanding damn awesome brah 🤙🏽 got home and finished the video
Thanks for the shout-out brother! I want to do this trail and try some of the off-shoot sections. That Jeep just loos alot like my friend Nipoj's hahaha
Where is that nice camping spot?🤔🤫
Nicely done, Jon.
Ty sir!
Great Video! Very neat trail and awesome info!
Thanks Aaron!
13:06 my transmission has a thermostat that blocks the cooler until it’s at least 200f. It typically runs 205-210 normally, though does take a while to get up to temp because it doesn’t have the transmission warming from the typical water and oil cooling radiators in todays vehicles.
My friend. Locked 4wd doesn’t lock torque. Just rpm. Torque and rpm are two different things. You cannot send torque to where there isn’t resistance (traction), so the rear typically generates more torque simply due to physics and the rear having more grip and weight when climbing. 4x4 biases torque to the better axle while AWD doesn’t /cannot.
Except that biasing torque is exactly what i-VTM4 does.
Ha! Thanks for the reminder, I’ll get it right one day
I've done this trail when my gladiator was stock, and yes I made it to the top of the hill. The owner of that gladiator needed a bit more momentum. There was no way he was going to make it to the top with the added weight and no good momentum. Your comment on 4wd vs awd in your first paragraph is very well said. I think I might have seen you at a Toyo Tires event last year or maybe a rig similar to yours. Great video btw I like how you break down the sections. I can imagine it's tedious when editing the video. 👍
Man I've done that trail once in my Ram 1500 when I was pretty new to offroading. I'll take my JT out there and try out those obstacles since I have alot more experience now. I'll go at night to make it funner.😉
Yup same here lol
Amen. Great instruction John. Thank you. On the down hill soft stretch at the end, I’m wondering if the decent control on my Crosstrek would do well, thinking that would be a great place for it.
Good stuff Jon, and a great reminder about 2-speed AWD's and single speed (im trying to purge 4WD from my vocabulary to try and allign with the SAE). Its interesting because my father in law brought up the DRiving sports vide you mentioned (with the outback wilderness) and came away very impressed with the outback wilderness. He's been teasing buying a land cruiser for years since I took him on a trip on the kaiparowits plateua, but he'll never do it. Still it illustrates your point perfectly about people seeing that kind of thing and thinking that these on-demand systems are equivillent. For him, I think a wilderness would be more than he would ever use, but I kinda have a beef with the way manufactires are pimping out their crossovers and misleading customers as to their abilities. I think its leading people into trouble, along with a few other factors.
As for the Gladiator. Im glad they are getting into it, but I take a litle issue with the idea of STARTING on 37 inch tires and literally every overland jewel they could find. Its like when I recommend people getting into mountain biking. I tell them to get something affordable because it will help them know if its for them, it will build skill more than a nicer bike would, and it gives them something to upgrade and move on from. Im not saying they should jump right in with both feet, but I do think it actually does that person a little diservice.
I was with the owners of the Jeep Gladiator on their first offroad camping trip. They had the stock 33 inch tires at first and because they scraped on their first trip, they decided to increase the tire size. They have two small children they take with them, I think they just want to do everything they can to keep everyone safe. They used their winch on the first trip, and also this trip. Later on, we met up with family members of the MDX. One of them had a Honda HRV and got stuck in soft sand by our campsite. The winch came in clutch.
Great Video Jon and well put. I love being proud of my Passport, but I know the limitations. You are honest and that can be appreciated! How's your Passport since the transfer case fix? Did it go ok? Love to hear a little about it. Keep on Overlanding! Peace!
As always, thanks for being there since the start 🙏. Yeah, I bought the passport to have a good balance between onroad/offroad, and in genuinely happy with it. Life is back to normal with the new transfer case. It took a little while for the TCU to relearn everything. I think it’s still learning actually. It’s been about 2.5 weeks now. In about 2.5K more miles I’ll be changing the rear diff fluid, and I’ll also change out the transfer case fluid just to get them on the same interval. I’ll be inspecting the transfer case for any metal shavings.
I hear the transfer case (or PTU) can be a problem vehicles like the Jeep renegade/compass. We have the same ZF9 transmission and a similar design on the PTU. Is it because of overused fluid or is the PTU a part that just wears out overtime like an alternator? This is what I want to figure out! 😃
Some people think that off-roading = rock crawling. The reality is that for most off road scenarios that you come across such as dirt roads, muddy conditions, desert running... I actually find AWDs much much more comfortable to be in than 4WD vehicles. You can go faster and have more fun without being fatigued. This is especially true of the gladiator or wranglers, the steering feel of recirculating ball steering setup is "unique" and the solid axles mean that they are really uncomfortable at high speeds.
But for going over big ledges, climbing over human sized boulders or flexing over axle twisters, nothing beats 2x Dana 44/60s with lockers, 37+ tires and a 4:1 transfer case.
All depends on what you want to do I guess.
Well said NK! Also, some people and even automotive journalist, would think that what we did here was “rock crawling”. That’s another cliche thing people say, “I didn’t buy my AWD to go rock climbing”, but there’s so much In-between dirt road vs. rock crawling. Literally about levels 2, 3, 4, and 5 🤣.
I’m hoping this video helps someone choose the right vehicle, because there’s other channels “over” hyping AWD vehicles and making people believe that their just as good as a 4runner or Jeep offroad.
That’s some funny shit. My 10year old will drive my wrangler over rocks your bumper can’t get past!!
“Those bigger UA-cam channel” lol I love it when they go up a hit with two rocks and are like “okay I’m going to drop it into 4lo, lock the front and rear, use all the crawl control features, set up my max trax, hook up my winch, but not air down”
Haha! You speak the truth!
John is a beast driver. 💪🏾
Haha! You’re too much mate! I’m at wallaby level. 🦘
Why doesn't the MDX use it's 4 wheel lock?
Looks like they aren't familiar with the mdx after all
No need... Still testing the capabilities at that time. Comparing it with my 2nd gen MDX
Nice to see you back making content Jon! How was the experience with the new rear Diff??? Honda treated you well or not?
I had a new transfer case put in, the rear diff is fine 😃
4:33 Nice shirt😎🤙🏽
Thanks #FJB 😆
Alright Jon! You have inspired me to take my 2016 Civic on studless blizzaks on this trail. Me and my 5 inches of ground clearance 😂😂 Don't ask what the crawl ratio is because I have none. 🤣
This is a joke. Kind of a jab at those who always say, "my civic can do that". Even if I have taken it on some pretty questionable roads and come out unscathed, I wouldn't dare attempt this. I'll just hitch a ride with you I stead. 😁
I have a 2003 MDX. What gear should I drive it in? d4, d5? Also, on this trip, did you use the VTR Lock? if so, in what gear? Thanks!!
It really depends on what kind of road/trail you’re in. D4 is ok when just driving regular fire roads and d1 when going up. Only engage VTM lock when necessary.
D4 for city, D5 for highway
Hey John, I just finished a 2-inch lift on my 21 passport. I'm wondering if you ever had issues with cv axles either when you were 2 inches lifted or currently?
The only issue I had was when I was doing 40 mph and smashed into a divot. The impact was so violent it made my axle, and strut leak and partially ripped my lower control arm bushing. That happened at around the 30K mark and I drove like that until 80K. I rebuilt the suspension at 80K. I’m currently at 84K on the odometer (91K actual).
@JonDZ Adventuring Thanks for the reply. You were the main reason I got a Passport and it's seen some decent use over her in the mountains of north Georgia.
Acura does good. Obviously it has to be guided through practically flat surface while the jeep has to be patiently waiting.
Damn man, watching you pull up and talk to the camera, I kept thinking, turn off the car you're burning too much gas lmfao
Love the guys r-shirt
New subscriber, here.... I've got to do this in my lifted 4x4 Astro Van.... Need to get a skid plate fabbed up then I'm all over it
Those things are awesome! Many of us have talked about building one out. #vanlife + offroad sounds like such a good idea. #Vanlanding is that a thing yet?
@JonDZ Adventuring it's pretty capable, been off road in snow and must in Aruzona, on the beach in Jersey, a lot of dirt roads all over. Weak point is the oil pan sitting where it does - once I get the Skid plate I'm getting out there more. Maybe we should do a video 😄
I've done a lot of Astro Van related videos on my UA-cam channel
Wonder if you can put a Torsen LSD like the FWD V6 6speed Acura, in the front of a VTM-4 Truck or SUV. Honda should try this.
Rather than categorising vehicles in 2 classes , 4WD and AWD, it is much more accurate to analyze specific vehicles and acknowledge the relative advantages and disadvantages of each. Furthermore, vehicle buyers shouldn't be deterred by labelling or lack of it(sport, offroad, comfort, luxury, city, 4WD, AWD etc.)
Sounds like a really long video title 😜
Oooo I’m early!
Wow! Damn Bern! Do you have a macro or something?
Sounds like your wedding night!
I’m watching this while I’m delivering mail ya haha sup jon dz
Sup sup!
I point out to people that a current AWD system, like in a Pilot/Passport/Ridgeline are about as good as a stock 4x4 from say 10 years ago. As you point out, no low range or lockers, but lockers were not common 10 years ago in stock form, so only the low range was different. This is offset by the fact that stock 4x4s 10 years ago also had around 8 inches of clearance. Heck, a stock 2021 Silverado RST Z71 only has 8 inches of clearance, so the 4x4 system won't help it when it is hampered by breakover angle.
So very wrong. First 10 years ago there were at least 5 stock vehicles that had a rear locker, probably more, and more with a LSD. Ground clearance is not much of an issue, it’s the maximum ground clearance you should be concerned with. A body on frame vehicle will always have greater maximum ground clearance and any decent driver will know how to use that advantage
You two both make good points. With the twin clutch rear differential. There’s some obstacles that a midsized Honda (or Ford Bronco sport badlands) will be able to get up, where just 4WD traction control won’t be able to, but I’ll admit that it’s a very rare case. I’ve observed that the midsized Hondas fall in an “in between” category. Their limit is much higher than other AWDs. There’s no low range, but while other AWDs are geared 12 to 14:1, the ZF9 equipped Hondas are 20:1, and the newer Hondas are geared 22:1. A Toyota 4Runner is 34:1. For level (4) 4WD trails, the crawl ratio has worked out pretty good. Also, whatever the crawl ratio is on a CVT, it’s just different. They seem to suffer from transmission speed stall much earlier than a traditional automatic. So let’s say a CVT with a 15:1 crawl ratio ends up acting like a 10:1 crawl ratio with no ability to “bump”.
With all this said. IMO, there are notable differences between a mid sized Honda and 10 year old body on frame 4WDs. In 2010, ABS traction systems were very prevalent, combined with lots of wheel articulation, those systems are very very effective. 4 lo will mean that front and rear are locked in 50/50. Also, maximum clearance is greater in a body on frame.
Now, for unibody AWD, the Hondas have decent maximum clearance. For example, a Subaru ascent has 9” of clearance at the rocker panel. A Honda Passport is at 12.5”. My 3.5” lifted Passport has 16” of rocker panel clearance. I have my rear sway bar deleted, so flex isn’t too too abysmal (still drives great too).
IMO, with my mods, capability gets close to body on frame 4WD, but not quite on that level.
If we go over difficulty ratings by @trailsoffroad, I’d say my modified my Passport would handle a level 4 trail, maybe a level 5 if I was more skilled at driving. A lightly modified 4runner TRD offroad would handle levels 5, and maybe a level 6 with a skilled driver. A lightly modified Wrangler would handle a level 6 and maybe a 7 with skilled driving. Anything with a CVT is just limited by that type of transmission, and there’s only so much skill can do to overcome deficiencies.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring you know what would be a great comparison would be your passport vs a Grand Cherokee WK2 Laredo with just the 4WD high system and it doesn’t have a lo. Because it is full time 4wd system with 48/52 split and brake lock differential. I saw WK2 because it would be the same era as your passport.
@@thisguy2659 I wondered that myself. The non 4lo grand Cherokees are only geared 15:1 vs. the Passports 20:1. Both vehicles are full independent suspension, and I don’t believe the grand Cherokee has a rear LSD. According to Honda, they said they designed the Passport to be positioned under the 4runner and Grand Cherokee WK2 as far as off-road capability. They didn’t mention the trim of the Grand Cherokee though.
@@thisguy2659 I also wonder about the new Ford Timberline Explorers.
Should try it with 3rd gen sorentos
Not gonna lie still impressed with that little Acura.
The AWD/4WD debate gets even messier because there is so much variance in AWD/Full Time 4WD/4WD.
Even Honda has two systems and the one I've seen in action (CRV, Element) isn't all that great but the one in your Passport seems great.
I drove a WJ for a while that had AWD with selectable low range.
I'm not sure if the center differential was lockable.
So it would have been a unibody AWD car by definition but solid front and rear axles and I believe it had at least one limited slip in there too.
Whole different ball game than a CRV or RAV4.
Those WJs are interesting. They’re the last grand Cherokee to have a solid front axle. Anyways, I was hoping to make a super ridiculous comparison video, but the MDX handled. The driver knows what he needs to do to get over obstacles.
The title says vs a 2005 Mdx Acura. But you missed the acura going through the first obstacle....
I'm pretty much that MDX driver 😅
I'm sure I'm wrong. I usually am. I'm feeling the mdx guy is still rocking it but jeep dude sold his rig in a year.
I'd compare my 2004 treg with rear/mid locker, with a proper 4lo transfer case.
Once I get my lift, 37" Tyres and front elocker, I'd say it's better then the TRD pro 4runner.
Just saying, bias here though
Sounds cool. Btw, what’s a Treg?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring vw Touareg
@@t-rexlanding7321 Those are badass! check out @awdfam he had a touareg, and he said it did better than his new JL wrangler in alot of situations.
Nice gladiator :) , he is too scared to give some gas!
They’re new. They have two little kids riding in the back too. Safety first for them, I can respect that.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I traveled with 6 month old this summer. Looks like he doesn't know how to use lower gears. With 37s you could just eat that trail
@@VeryCoolJeep yeah, he's new to offroading. We all have to start somewhere and we all progress differently. Like you, he's my new friend, let's go easy.
3:03 😕
the wife of the Gladiator have Off roading experience? Wondering why she is chosen as a spotter or it is just by default?!?!
Yeah, 1 day offroading experience, and after this trip, 2 days offroading experience. Just imagine if she never tried to spot, she would have 0 days offroad experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Haha 😂 thanks for the comment, it was very funny.
What is going on here? I posted a few comments and others can’t see it? Is this post being censored only to the owners liking??
UA-cam will automatically block comments that have links to other videos or don’t follow their community guidelines.
I’m seeing this comment now. I’ve only blocked a handful of people (probably less than 10 people) in my 5 years of making UA-cam videos.
Someone named Sid Nancy was being auto blocked by UA-cam. I actually clicked on “alllow all comments”, but UA-cam has an algorithm that auto blocks. I don’t know what it’s based off of. It appears to be some kind of Merit system. Are you Sid Nancy? I have unblocked those comments. I have nothing to do with it though. I was also on a 3 night / 3 day trip out to Arizona and didn’t have cell reception, so I didn’t get notifications about Sid Nancy’s comments, if that was you.
If you are Sid Nancy, I would have no reason to block your comments. If that’s you, I agree with what you said. You’ll notice that there’s comments that I probably won’t agree with, but I don’t censor them. The only thing I will censor is blatant disrespect or completely false information. Not “Woke” fact checker information, but incorrect technical information that is clearly of bad intention.
AWD didn’t make it to the MDX until 07.
You might be thinking of “abs traction control”. They’ve always had awd and a rear LSD.
Yeah idk what MDX you're thinking of that didn't come with awd .....more like they didn't come with fwd option
@@nickrabiner7843 1st gen was considered 4wd with rear lockers. 2nd gen was AWD
I love my electromagnetic rear diff locker VTM 4 button , only time I ever used it was on the dunes in surf trips in north Florida in the 17 years it's been in this family
just had to say if your new to off road y would u go straight to a $65,000 set up
I was with them on their first trip. We drove up the Diablo drop off. The scraped a few times with the stock 33 inch tires, so they jumped up to 37s. Everything else they used. Alex watched my other videos and saw how my friend Gladiator is always using it’s winch to pull people out of danger, so he added one too.
Their build mimics one of the SEMA gladiator builds.
I guess you can also say, “if you’re new to offroad, why did you buy a Rubicon instead of just the sport model?” Some people just want to put their best foot forward.
Buy once, cry once
Why not? Buy once cry none is the way to go.
If it’s on 30” tires than it has a lift, then it’s not stock 😂
Dude c’mon 6 minutes in .. to get to the point ? And most to vieeo was the Wrangler and the damn VW.
Lmao spends 60k or more for a truck and accessories but doesn’t know how to drive?? People get into to deep before they even have knowledge of what they’re doing. Learn your vehicle first and know what you want to do with it before you shells out thousands of dollars
That's my money I do whatever I want.
At least I could afford what I got. No debt. All paid off. More than what you can say. And not about not know how to drive I got kids in the car idjit. Winch was used during this trip and last trip along with with traction board. All I care about is everyone im with have fun good time good memories. So I prepare to help those that are in need of assistance. Not like many other greedy people dont want to help others. Know facts before you decide to say anything.
@@AlexTouch1990 i think that you’ll be much safer in a stock or at least smaller tires. With an upgraded rig ur more likely to try harder lines and break stuff
Sound like jealousy. At least someone not afraid to put their hard earned money in something and take have fun with the family. Bunch of low life haters.
Completely agree with Alex and Sothida. Their money let them do as they please. Eveyone got to start somewhere. Good going guys beautiful jeep.