Commenting on your older videos is very good idea. I'd definitely watch them. I've wanted an A1 Scotsman for a while and recently managed to acquire one just like the one your working on. It was in good condition and at a reasonable price. Gave it a service and she is running very smoothly. I chickened out of pulling the wheels off though, and cleaned the motor through a small hole in the casing. I stuck some builders plates on the sides of the boiler too.
Hi Bill! Greetings from down here on Wirral! Your style of presentation has matured, but your experience has been built on, job by job, and as such, your confidence in tackling quite complex jobs has come on tremendously. As other previous commentators have said, I find watching you working your magic on these ailing models and bringing them back to life quite therapeutic! Looking forward to seeing you get the layout scenery started. Keep up the good work!
Hello Bill, another interesting video.As a generalisation, I think part of the problem with older locos are 1 / the friction contact electrical connection between engine and tender is delicate, and with time and usage, loses its original contact, hence the reason for Hornby now using a plug and socket instead. Older locos really need either a replacement plug and socket, or, a direct cable connection between the engine and tender. 2/ I also think that the very thin wiring, with the passage of time, becomes a current inhibiter due to the natural degradation of the cables. Therefore a slightly thicker replacement wire should be considered.3 / I also think that additional pick ups to supplement the existing pick ups would not go astray. 4 / on some locomotives, skate collection from each railhead is feasible ( BR 03 & 04 shunters come to mind ) to supplement the existing pick up arrangements. 5 / although the Hornby ( derived from Fleischmann ) ring field motor tender drive is often criticised, but as most UK home layouts are quite compact, and a 6 coach train is probably the longest train that a compact layout can accomodate, the ring field motor does comfortably handle this equivalent train length. 6 / as an side, the R398 version is a Gresley A1 ( 180 psi, compared to an A3 at 220 psi. After 1925, all the A1s were upgraded to long lap long travel valves. ) Regards from Australia.
Seemed like enormously more effort than it really deserved. I can’t work up the love for tender drive locos. They’ll always have rotten traction and frequently don’t run too well. Still, a doggedly determined repair.
Another Great Repair Video Bill. I have noticed that quite a few of these late Hornby 5-Pole Ringfield Motors have a 'whine' to them. It is quite literally a case of luck of the draw.
I got an Old Flying Scotsman model the same as that one but this one came part of Hornby R-1072 I got it back in 2008 but it stopped running in 2011 so i had to get a replacement loco..
New traction tyres would help. That loco clearly has some miles on it so i’d have replaced those too. You’d be surprised just how much current wheels fitted with tyres collect. I have retro fitted lima diesels with pick ups on traction wheels. Its helps immensely.
I have a B17 (Norwich City) which looks and runs smoothly, apart from some slippage. I think the problem is the worn traction tyres. Where do you get yours? My neighbour has a similar problem with a Hornby A4. A change of tyres transformed its performance.
Oiled up traction tyres? That would certainly contribute to the slipping… and not necessarily visible on inspection. Then again it seems to do alright with that long take of teaks.
Hello Bill, a thought, as you are building your new layout, with every repair/service, can you give a brief update of the layout work after the repair service is complete. No need for any video of that, keep that for the next layout update. Just a thought. 👍
My god! On your track it sounded as so it was a Swiss cog railway loco. There must be someone somewhere that knows a trick or two to get that to sound like it's not climbing up a Swiss mountainside! Hornby really have had some seriously bad manufacturing processes, some of the Jouef 1960s and 1970s model locos with their pressed sheet bowl gears you've repaired run quieter, which is amazing for their age.
Hi, first of all, I do admire your great ability to spot, recognise and repair faults for sure! But, I don’t quite get the way you clean/ spray off much dirt,.....but then carry on working whilst placing the cleaned parts etc, back in that same dirt!? You have your towelling to catch small parts on, so why not have a sacrificial sheet on top, so to move and return to your still clean towelling? Don’t mean to be rude or insulting, but...best practice!! Cheers
Hi Bill, I think the problem could be wear in the plastic cover at the opposite end to the pinion. Having a spinning shaft with a proper bearing at one end and just a hole in the cover at the other is asking for vibration of the shaft. There is not much clearance to the magnet if the armature is flopping about. X03/4 has proper bearings at both ends. Also as henrybest pointed out the cast mazak shafts the gears are mounted on will wear and spoil the gear meshing. If only Hornby had used brass pins (like the old Silver Seal copied from Fleischmann) this would be less of a problem. Anybody ever drilled out the posts and put new brass pins in? All the best from Kent.
Regarding the gunk causing the gears to wear down, it could have been the other way round, as well. Maybe, it has been noisy right from the beginning, for which it had been over-oiled at some point in time and the surplus lubricant accumulated as gunk in the motor? Anyway, great video. And it's just and honest to declare defeat, where due. (Just pretend it has a steam turbine. 😀)
I the exact same model, I took it apart to convert to DCC but couldn’t identify the wires as they’re all black! Would you recommend changing out the old ring field motor for a new one and then convert to DCC?
Personally no. I've tried converting Hornby ringfields to CD motors and other coreless motors and have never been happy with the result. Each time the original motor performed better. I've tried the cheapest conversion kit which worked OK but made a horrible noise to a £40 conversion kit which didn't even fit properly. If you can replace the entire motor gears and all that would maybe be better but I'm not aware of such a conversion being readily available.
I seem to recall someone else on youtube having a similar vibration issue, caused by a loose magnet "chattering" when on load, or(as has already been suggested here,) the posts the gears are mounted on
Sure it wasn't me? I have had that very issue. The spindles could well be worn as well as the gears. Or it could be that it simply wasn't made very well in the first place.
@@oobill it probably was..lol. I have watched all your posts here, and learned a lot from you ,and a few others, in readiness for my first layout build.not sure yet if I'll share the process on youtube yet.
Could the cause of the vibrating gears be that the posts that the gears turn on are worn, and not the gears' teeth? If so, new gears (with unworn axel holes) might improve the noise, but not eliminate it entirely. Of course, it could be both the posts and the teeth that are worn.
Bill, have you got any experience of a R398 Flying Scotsman by chance? The tenders linked via a sprung drawbar, which from my example seems to cause the current to drop as the spring is pulled. Have you or anyone else come across a good fix? Im not sure why the pony truck even needs to have a spung loaded drawbar tbh
As far as I'm aware the spring on the drawbar has nothing to do with electrical contact it's a means of keeping a close coupling between the loco and the tender. The spring washer on the pony truck screw helps maintain electrical contact. It may be that the spring does act as a tensioner to try to improve connectivity as well though. Don't know really would have to look at one closely. Not had one in front of me that I can remember or at least not one that's been a problem.
The bearing behind the pinion gear is usually the cause of loud screeching. I always oil it anyway but in this case I'm 99% sure the problem is worn gears and/or spindles.
I wonder if the gears have been changed before and they have used the wrong gear set for a three pole motor because the five pole and the three pole have different amount of teeth on them and the main gear of the motor has a different amount of teeth to and a mix possible won't mix well together
Hi Bill. WOW... that's the filthiest commutator I've ever seen on your channel. And a 5-pole one at that. I don't understand why people who supposedly love their hobby, allow their locos to get in such a state. It probably explains why garages are always booked up because some people just cannot be bothered to look after their own cars. Shame! Keep up the good work Bill but don't put your layout construction in 2nd place! Paul. 👍❤
Commenting on your older videos is very good idea. I'd definitely watch them. I've wanted an A1 Scotsman for a while and recently managed to acquire one just like the one your working on. It was in good condition and at a reasonable price. Gave it a service and she is running very smoothly. I chickened out of pulling the wheels off though, and cleaned the motor through a small hole in the casing.
I stuck some builders plates on the sides of the boiler too.
Hi Bill!
Greetings from down here on Wirral!
Your style of presentation has matured, but your experience has been built on, job by job, and as such, your confidence in tackling quite complex jobs has come on tremendously.
As other previous commentators have said, I find watching you working your magic on these ailing models and bringing them back to life quite therapeutic!
Looking forward to seeing you get the layout scenery started.
Keep up the good work!
Hello Bill, another interesting video.As a generalisation, I think part of the problem with older locos are 1 / the friction contact electrical connection between engine and tender is delicate, and with time and usage, loses its original contact, hence the reason for Hornby now using a plug and socket instead. Older locos really need either a replacement plug and socket, or, a direct cable connection between the engine and tender. 2/ I also think that the very thin wiring, with the passage of time, becomes a current inhibiter due to the natural degradation of the cables. Therefore a slightly thicker replacement wire should be considered.3 / I also think that additional pick ups to supplement the existing pick ups would not go astray. 4 / on some locomotives, skate collection from each railhead is feasible ( BR 03 & 04 shunters come to mind ) to supplement the existing pick up arrangements. 5 / although the Hornby ( derived from Fleischmann ) ring field motor tender drive is often criticised, but as most UK home layouts are quite compact, and a 6 coach train is probably the longest train that a compact layout can accomodate, the ring field motor does comfortably handle this equivalent train length. 6 / as an side, the R398 version is a Gresley A1 ( 180 psi, compared to an A3 at 220 psi. After 1925, all the A1s were upgraded to long lap long travel valves. ) Regards from Australia.
Seemed like enormously more effort than it really deserved. I can’t work up the love for tender drive locos. They’ll always have rotten traction and frequently don’t run too well. Still, a doggedly determined repair.
Another Great Repair Video Bill. I have noticed that quite a few of these late Hornby 5-Pole Ringfield Motors have a 'whine' to them. It is quite literally a case of luck of the draw.
I got an Old Flying Scotsman model the same as that one but this one came part of Hornby R-1072 I got it back in 2008 but it stopped running in 2011 so i had to get a replacement loco..
New traction tyres would help. That loco clearly has some miles on it so i’d have replaced those too. You’d be surprised just how much current wheels fitted with tyres collect. I have retro fitted lima diesels with pick ups on traction wheels. Its helps immensely.
I have a B17 (Norwich City) which looks and runs smoothly, apart from some slippage. I think the problem is the worn traction tyres. Where do you get yours? My neighbour has a similar problem with a Hornby A4. A change of tyres transformed its performance.
@@stephendavies6949 ebay or peters spares mate.
Oiled up traction tyres? That would certainly contribute to the slipping… and not necessarily visible on inspection. Then again it seems to do alright with that long take of teaks.
Great repair Bill, 6 coaches no probs ,those analogue amp meters are a great help in servicing locos.
Another marvellous repair.
Hello Bill, a thought, as you are building your new layout, with every repair/service, can you give a brief update of the layout work after the repair service is complete. No need for any video of that, keep that for the next layout update. Just a thought. 👍
My god! On your track it sounded as so it was a Swiss cog railway loco. There must be someone somewhere that knows a trick or two to get that to sound like it's not climbing up a Swiss mountainside! Hornby really have had some seriously bad manufacturing processes, some of the Jouef 1960s and 1970s model locos with their pressed sheet bowl gears you've repaired run quieter, which is amazing for their age.
Hi, first of all, I do admire your great ability to spot, recognise and repair faults for sure! But, I don’t quite get the way you clean/ spray off much dirt,.....but then carry on working whilst placing the cleaned parts etc, back in that same dirt!? You have your towelling to catch small parts on, so why not have a sacrificial sheet on top, so to move and return to your still clean towelling? Don’t mean to be rude or insulting, but...best practice!! Cheers
Hi Bill, I think the problem could be wear in the plastic cover at the opposite end to the pinion. Having a spinning shaft with a proper bearing at one end and just a hole in the cover at the other is asking for vibration of the shaft. There is not much clearance to the magnet if the armature is flopping about. X03/4 has proper bearings at both ends. Also as henrybest pointed out the cast mazak shafts the gears are mounted on will wear and spoil the gear meshing. If only Hornby had used brass pins (like the old Silver Seal copied from Fleischmann) this would be less of a problem. Anybody ever drilled out the posts and put new brass pins in? All the best from Kent.
Nice job. looks great too
Regarding the gunk causing the gears to wear down, it could have been the other way round, as well. Maybe, it has been noisy right from the beginning, for which it had been over-oiled at some point in time and the surplus lubricant accumulated as gunk in the motor?
Anyway, great video. And it's just and honest to declare defeat, where due. (Just pretend it has a steam turbine. 😀)
Entirely possible. Maybe the gears aren't worn at all and it's just poor manufacture.
Hi Bill. Really enjoy your videos fixing these models. Can I ask what the spray is you are using, please
Hi Bill my 3pole motors are more quite when running then my 5pole ones do
I the exact same model, I took it apart to convert to DCC but couldn’t identify the wires as they’re all black! Would you recommend changing out the old ring field motor for a new one and then convert to DCC?
Personally no. I've tried converting Hornby ringfields to CD motors and other coreless motors and have never been happy with the result. Each time the original motor performed better. I've tried the cheapest conversion kit which worked OK but made a horrible noise to a £40 conversion kit which didn't even fit properly. If you can replace the entire motor gears and all that would maybe be better but I'm not aware of such a conversion being readily available.
I seem to recall someone else on youtube having a similar vibration issue, caused by a loose magnet "chattering" when on load, or(as has already been suggested here,) the posts the gears are mounted on
Sure it wasn't me? I have had that very issue. The spindles could well be worn as well as the gears. Or it could be that it simply wasn't made very well in the first place.
@@oobill it probably was..lol. I have watched all your posts here, and learned a lot from you ,and a few others, in readiness for my first layout build.not sure yet if I'll share the process on youtube yet.
Could the cause of the vibrating gears be that the posts that the gears turn on are worn, and not the gears' teeth? If so, new gears (with unworn axel holes) might improve the noise, but not eliminate it entirely. Of course, it could be both the posts and the teeth that are worn.
Yup. Without a replacement set of gears and a motor casing it's hard to be sure either way.
Pickups on the wheels fitted with traction tyres? Good grief - do the employees at Hornby actually understand how electricity is conducted?
Yeah it baffles me. Some say the flanges conduct but they absolutely won't do so consistently so it's a bit pointless.
Bill, have you got any experience of a R398 Flying Scotsman by chance? The tenders linked via a sprung drawbar, which from my example seems to cause the current to drop as the spring is pulled. Have you or anyone else come across a good fix? Im not sure why the pony truck even needs to have a spung loaded drawbar tbh
Service sheet for my loco is 131A 1992
As far as I'm aware the spring on the drawbar has nothing to do with electrical contact it's a means of keeping a close coupling between the loco and the tender. The spring washer on the pony truck screw helps maintain electrical contact. It may be that the spring does act as a tensioner to try to improve connectivity as well though. Don't know really would have to look at one closely. Not had one in front of me that I can remember or at least not one that's been a problem.
did you try checking the traction tyres, if they slip it can put the loco under stress.
Silly question. Have you tried a little drop of oil just behind the cog on the motor spindle. It cured one of mine. Cheers Paul.
The bearing behind the pinion gear is usually the cause of loud screeching. I always oil it anyway but in this case I'm 99% sure the problem is worn gears and/or spindles.
I wonder if the gears have been changed before and they have used the wrong gear set for a three pole motor because the five pole and the three pole have different amount of teeth on them and the main gear of the motor has a different amount of teeth to and a mix possible won't mix well together
Definitely the correct gears fitted.
Hi Bill.
WOW... that's the filthiest commutator I've ever seen on your channel. And a 5-pole one at that. I don't understand why people who supposedly love their hobby, allow their locos to get in such a state. It probably explains why garages are always booked up because some people just cannot be bothered to look after their own cars. Shame!
Keep up the good work Bill but don't put your layout construction in 2nd place!
Paul. 👍❤
you should use an electric toothbrush
Nice looking model but the Chinese one is absolutely rubbish.