Hope you all enjoyed this video! As usual your feedback in the comments is very much appreciated, so let me know what you think. Next video will explore the events surounding the destruction of the eternal cities and their ties to the numen.
I think it's interesting that the nox specifically invoked the greater wills ire, as in it was so long ago there wasn't an order that would punish them on it's behalf. When? Between the age of ancient dragons and giants perhaps?
@@Kosmos_er i was afraid this was going to be another video that tries to make ranni and marika into perfect liberators but so far it seems like one of the few videos who sees marika for what she is, although i dont quite agree with how you portrayed the tree as being some blood sucking parasite, i think its just a recycle machine it has no malice and marika removing death broke it
Holy hell. I've always been of the opinion that Marika did indeed have a hand in the Night of the Black Knives, but recontextualizing the "My Comrades" dialogue towards Radagon shook the entire foundation of why I thought so. Damn dude. Mind literally chaos blown and on fire right now. Once I thought Marika had a crisis of faith. Now I am more than willing to buy that she waged war on fate, and that she was never loyal to the Greater Will. I am so looking forward to your other videos because damn. This one...this one is going to need some time to fully sink in.
How about their T gestures; we all know that similar to Gesú nailed in the Cross, did Christant do that? No! all the Land Between's Church has their Crucified gestures; that mean it happen along time ago, before Maria become a God. Also we know That cause of that is Elden Beast' Divine Punishment; so Marika panic roll (again) , be catched then hanged; Radagon swiched with her and be nailed by the golden thorn (funny how protection symbol attualy torture device) at the end they are just the Elden Beast's slave or tool , Marika want to make a weapon to kill God , Why? when She is the only God by the Golden Order?; And the wound of Elden Beast they leave ? I think all the Great Rune come from Elden Beast body. then God only fell when Elden Beast defeated ? I think that Elden Beast hide inside Marika body at the beginning (like Flame of Frenzy hidding in Lord of Frenzy' body) make she became a God; the hint word is "GodSkin": the GodSlayer blade is very similar to the Sarced Relic the helix shape and the R2 pose; may be before Marika, The Gloam-eyed Queen is the first candidate for the god; when she have no used Elden Beast turned her into a sword and separate Dead from Golden Oder, like turn Radagon into the sword. The question is the red spear in the Marika belly, who did that? The fight betwen Marika( Radagon) and the Elden Beast must be someone else in that fight? Radagon use Spear incantation, Kyle use spear but with madness; and Acient Dragons use lighning Spear; who have destioned dead spear? Godwyn ?(frend with Dragon so he has spear)? or she take the spear before the fight make the crack in her body ? (the trailer don't show the exactly the wound) What if Godwyn betray Marika first, so we have the Night of the Black knifes .... (i started to thing i too Ranni simp ) in the end the open story is crazy; the author give a bunch of hint but not complete; So it developes in side every single reader's mind by our infinity imagination, lot of theory, all of it was right.. make the story so deep meaning and so huge @@
Marika was tempted by the elden beast and managed to wound it once she realized the horrible bargain she struck in agreeing to be its vessel. It's a parasitic space alien after all lol.
What sort of argument do you hear against it. It is very clearly said 'unwanted children OF Marika' meaning Marika is in the habit or at least the tendency of 'desiring' to get rid of some of her demigods by killing them. And since its been said Godwyn was the first to fall. Those dead demigods cant be before that moment. (If it is then it implicates Marika's involvement and media manipulation EVEN MORE). So if we even assume they all died on the night of the black knives, then it basically follows Marika had a hand in it. I'm not seeing an argument that can explain this in a way that makes Marika innocent or unaware of those deaths.@@DavidVallner
@@Arda-dq4rt That’s very thin circumstantial evidence. The ghost says there is *one* unwanted child of Marika in *one* of the mausoleums. This does not really imply she does not care for any of her children. I do in fact believe the dead demigods are more likely to be from before the Shattering War, most likely the conflict wirh the Gloam-Eyed Queen who we know was defeated by Marika and her Godskins specialized in hunting gods. But as clear it is this conflict happened it only shows up in lore very late and doesn’t really inform the culture of Marika’s realm, which does in fact hint towards it being memory-holed; this would make sense as something done to keep it a secret that there could be gods other than Marika and orders other than hers. Tarnished Archaeologist claims there is in fact very compelling evidence in the environment that this sort of historical revisionism took place to move Marika up to being the head of the religious belief system of the lands and erase traces of her ever being anything but an eternal divine being, so it would only follow the idea of there ever having been contenders to the position would get suppressed. But I don’t see how from this you would deduce “and therefore she sacrificed Godwyn for yet another plot.” As a counterpoint, the Golden Order = “nothing can die” was something she presumably lost these unwanted children to establish. (Which I think is more as fodder in that war as opposed to plotting their demise.) One can equally assume that the son she granted eternal life to she did care for enough to be genuinely griefstricken. Two other problems for this theory are motivation and motive. I’m not aware of off the top of my head of clues indicating Marika did in fact intend to undo the Golden Order before the Shattering, and I’m aware of no answer as to why Godwyn’s death would be necessary to do so. It seems like she had some degree of latitude to reform the order having pruned the primordial Elden Ring to the Golden Order incarnation. Equally she could just take the hammer to the ring whenever she wanted, I don’t see why Godwyn dying would be the precondition. General frustration with there being a Golden Order is very clearly Ranni’s thing, it’s much more of an assumption that Marika shares it. If anything it’s Melina that represents Marika’s agenda during the events of the game, and if that were the case, wouldn’t she steer you towards Ranni’s ending or away from say Goldmask’s, which is “make it better by getting rid of free will”?
@@DavidVallner well that logic wouldnt work as it makes "the first death of yhe demigods" phrase null. No other demigod of Marika died BEFORE Godwyn. Now if you are making the argument that was a lie by the narrator, then it is even worse because "Godwyn being the 1st to die" is a cover up by Marika media manipulation which means she did killed those demigods in muselousm "unwanted children" btw Before godwyn under wraps. It is even more incriminating! The motivation is there. Godwyn helped ascend dragon race in the capital. The former dragon lord is Placidusax so there is an ample reason to harbor hatred for Godwyn.
@@DavidVallner unwanted children is a theme as in those in museleums are killed because of thei relationship to Marika. She even says "...if you are nothing you'll be sacrcrifices". Those in museloums are the sacrifices so that when she shatters the ER, they wont get the great runes and strangthened unlike Malenia, Radahn etc. It makes perfect sense
When you mentioned the part about Marika not really being too attached to her "unwanted" children, I began recalling a thought I had recently. About how the Lands Between really seems to have a massive lack of any sorts of empathy. Out of all the characters, events, names, and things in Elden Ring very few seem to really believe or practice any form of kindness. Despite whatever Marikas meddling, demigods rampaging, monsters hunting, and ring breaking did in damage, I get the impression that the Lands Between could still have avoided falling into utter silent dead decay had the remaining peoples been able to work together and talk over falling into even more factionalism and killing. In essence, by choosing poorly, they sealed the deal. Not really too surprising that the whole place fell apart and is a mere husk. Even re-assembling the Elden Ring seems kinda pointless, as it's just a continuation of the cycle of violence, with hardly anyone left to form anything new with.
It's why I love the goldmask ending since it completely screws over Marika and her scheming because no matter what outcome you choose Deathroot is still going to consume the world. Even if Ranni's ending sounds nice on paper you are just basicallly leaving the world in total anarchy with Deathroot and those who live in death still haunting the world.
You raise a good point with deathroot, but i'll hold on until the DLC to form an opinion that. Since miquella being in the teaser image with torrent really thickens the plot a good bit.
to me ranni doesnt seem that different from marika, but i think ranni sort of betrayed marika and that the spliting of the mark was not the original intention of godwyn's death, that would explain why the ring leader of the black knives is locked up on her place
@@Kosmos_erGodwyn is dead dead dead. Are we missing the central theme of ALL souls games? Some have the power to resist the natural progression of the world, and in doing so, distorting the nature of it in order to stave off their lessening control of that power. Resisting change inevitably leads to conflict and the distortion of ideals in order to attain the power that will be able to dictate the change you want.
From what we now know from the dlc, marika wasn’t always so cold to her children. In fact, to messer (her secret elder son) she practically coddled him to try and stop his affliction until hiding him away. Painting a portrait of a mother who lost one son, had one betray her to be eaten by a serpent, and one she had to hide away for his own sake. Never mind that all the others either had physical deformities or tended to overthrow her order. No wonder why she just decided she just couldn’t do it anymore and shattered the Elden Ring.
I’m guessing Radagon fully trusted The Greater Will, whereas Marika began to lose faith. The Greater Will combined Radagon and Marika in order for Radagon to take over her body and maintain the Elden Ring.
I think radagon and Marika were always one.... but Marika was losing faith... while radagon was still holding his faith or blindness..... Marika was filled with doubt and betrayal of her fingers lies and the children she had by choice or force and them all basically being born diseased and cursed..... any mother would feel poorly over time about the gods when all her children and Even radagons kids have something wrong with them as well.......however ranni could see through the fingers goals and perhaps Marika allowed the sacrifice or was broken when her son was killed and it shatteredthe rest of any belief she had. I dont think she actually orchestrated the black knife event. Though she definitely started the shattering.
Kosmos, this is very on-point. I agree that understanding Marika’s motives is the key to unlocking the central meaning of the game’s lore. Also, imo there’s no point in making lore videos if you aren’t gonna offer a unique perspective and you definitely do that so cheers!
I've waited for this video months bro, needless to say the long wait was well worth it; you outdid yourself with this one Love all the tie-ings you made and the simple, no bs editing and production You, Crunchyy, Last Protagonist and Honored Madman are carrying actual lore videos, keep at it man
All the pieces just fell into place with this vid. The history and relationship between the Numen and Golden Order, Marika's name "The Eternal!" It makes so much sense. Marika was acting as saboteur on behalf of the Numen and Eternal City!
Something I don't get about this is that turning Marika into a God is one of the first moves the Greater Will does. So, it means that Marika was part of banishing the Nox... So how was she a saboteur from the beginning if she was the one who did the harm she's using as justification to sabotage the Greater Will? Edit: just read the wiki. Apparently the Nox were banished before Marika was chosen by the Greater Will.
Really good video, thank you! EldenTales has come out with a video that his theory is Radagon is a Champion misbegotten that was reborn essentially like a golden mimic tear using the amber egg. I’ll definitely watch rewatch your Radagon mimic video and see what differs/similarities.
the only thing missing is the most important of all "why" marika having eternal as a surname, instead of a tittle, envisioning the age of the stars, and building the blocks to allow it to happens are very plausible, but lack pragmatism marika order assimilated multiple different factions into its fold; the misbigotten, the cruscible, carians, perfurmers, trolls and dragons marika expanded her society multiple times, she acted the same way the romans did the prophecy of the cardinal sin existed before the war against the fire giants, it was an attempt to prevent it from happening marika plucked destined death from the elden ring and sealed it within maliketh, creating the golden order everything she does is always towards protecting the golden order, and she was both ruthless and pragmatic about it she is also very pragmatic when sending godfrey and the tarnished away, it had to be something she planned to protect her order but shattering the ring spelled her death, she has a shard of the rune of death lodged on her body, she is falling apart, we mend the elden ring inside her corpse why? why did she sacrifice herself like that? was the aim to fight the Will? why? the will wanted to replace her with ranni, but she seems to be in league with the moon witch, and if she is colluding with the eternals of nokron, she should be able to use the blade forged to kill the fingers, she should be able to use the elden ring to fight against the greater will if that was the goal the greater will is clearly an antagonist for marika, but if she dies in the process to fight it, what was the actual goal?
I think this might be my favorite theory out there. I’ve always had trouble reconciling a lot of the events being appropriately timed or not making sense to her personality. But this hits all the major parts I feel. Well done. 🥹
I always felt creeped out by the Numen and their Nox Civilization, it is even more horrible when you consider that both the creation of albinauric slaves, and puppet technology Seluvis and Carians use (one for sick pleasure, and the other to enslave the cuckoo knights) is directly created by rediscovering nox technology (the silver tear race created to be used as slaves, and the nox puppets showing the technology originated by them) it doesn’t help that Ranni’s cathedral is full of starlight shards, which is what’s used to enslave people! The more you look at it, the more their imposing presence is revealed, starting by Marika herself, and her children by bloodline being Numen, it’s not the perfect solution, but at least Goldmask’s ending prevents her from further tampering the Elden Ring, and someone like Ranni is even less trustworthy than Marika with her talk about freedom, then dabbling in this stuff. Good catch with Celestial Dew, the effect seems to also affect DemiGods and Empyrean as seen with Ranni, I would not be surprised if it’s an offshoot of starlight shards.
Are you considering making another video about Marika? Now that DLC is released, the relationship between Nox people and shamans should be rather important.
U make a good point that i think pretty much everyone glosses over, sure maybe the death of Godwyn and/or kidnapping of Miquella may have changed or expedited the plan she always intended on the tarnished returning
I have seen a lot of ER lore videos and yours is the one i found myself agreeing with the most. Great job. I would have liked to hear you talk about some other things as well tho. Like how in the dialogue with the finger-reader in deeproot depths, she mentions that Godwyn was supposed to die a "true" death and serve as a martyr. That leaves us to believe that while Marika did orchestrate the night of the black knives, it didnt go exactly as she had planned. Ranni possibly went with the plan at first, but then acted on her own to discard her old body without losing her soul, thus "giving" Godwyn's in her place. Also, Gideon's dialogue before and after his boss fight seems really important. To me, Gideon is not really the All-knowing as he is portrayed, cause while he apparently glimpsed at Marika's true will, he didnt really understand it. He says marika wants the tarnished to struggle, but you wouldnt actively equip someone with all the tools to succeed (Melina for kindling and Hewg for god-slaying weapon), if you wanted them to only struggle.
The finger reader saying that godwyn "should have died a true death", doesn't strike me personally, as reference to anything more than simply lamenting the fact that he now lives in death and the shame it brings by being something unacceptable under the golden order. As for guideon i had a part of the cript adressing his misunderstanding of marika's will but i ended scraping it because i couldn't make it flow properly in the video.
@@Kosmos_er hmm i dont know, why would you speak like that about someone that you dont want dying at all? death was not even a thing right before that night. he shouldnt have died ANY death in the first place if its just lament. i feel like theres more to it. Also the martyr part sounds like it was planned to be this way. its like a role he has to play in the whole scheme. maybe im wrong. anyway, thanks for the video and the talk. subbed
An example of how her plans were fated and prophesied which NO ONE has spoken about: all of the statues of Marika are in the pose she ended up in: crucified on the remains of the Elden ring. Why would they have made all the statues in this pose? Long before it happened? With no one really knowing this happened to her?
Very good theory. Though I'm not quite sure why the endings other than Ranni's play into Marika's hands? Seems like the Greater Will remains in control in all endings except for Frenzied Flame (which Marika surely didn't intend) and Age of Stars (which seems like the end goal of Numen and Nox legacy).
I was under the impression that in Goldmask's Perfect Order ending, Goldmask eliminates the Greater Will's influence. All endings except for the regular one in one way or another succeed in breaking the Greater Will's grip on the Golden Order. Except several of them serve other Outer Gods instead.
This is correct. The only endings that remove or reduce its influence are the Age of Stars and Frenzied Flame (the latter of which melts basically all of existence into one)
@@Laerei No, Goldmask eliminates the petty will of a host god like Marika. So long as there is an Order the Greater Will is exerting some kind of influence
Radagon is the smith who led the rebelion. You can put it together by tracking the legacy of the area. As a example, in the Gaol of the area you fight someone who was captured during Radagon's revolt, a Zamor Hero who also happens to drop... And the church next to it has plenty of references to Radagon, including a shield. @@simonealcazar816
Great job Kos ! I found a somewhat probable inspiration for Marika which connect to her personality, Star/numerology and the "Hebrew" inspired Moses holding a stone tablet from the ancient dynasty who may have been a Numen. According to namesfolder : "Marika is Hebrew Girl name and meaning of this name is "Rebellious Woman, Bitter, Star". Based on numerology value 8, Marika is Practical, status loving, power-seeking, materialistic, fair, self-sufficient, loves controlling other, short tempered, stressful, cunning,Ambitious, Realistic, Powerful, Authoritative, Courageous and Leading. I'm eagerly looking forward to your next videos 😊
The drape behind Marika in every statue is in the shape of an 8. And 8 rotated 90 degrees is the symbol for infinity in mathematics. So ties in with her Eternal aspect as well.
12:41 now that’s a take I haven’t heard before. The age of abundance was a direct consequence of the wars preceding it. Life energy/souls/runes glutted the tree and, at the cost of the many, a few had abundance for a time. But it was ultimately unsustainable. Is there a metaphor in that? *cough imperialism cough* nah probably not
I really liked this video, I was originally able to piece together the world shattering sheme of the Goddess, but it always fell short when it came to the why, then I stopped playing and hadnt come back to it until this month; as I keep on rediscovering the lands between, I'll keep in mind your words of wisdom
as a non native english speaker i find it a bit difficult to follow all those concepts and explanation but i'm watching it 0.25 speed pausing the video every 20 seconds to elaborate and MAN that's an amazing video. There are a 90% of things I thought by myself and i haven't found any channel explaining in my same way, and here you did. and a 10% that are things i didn't think/know, and some of them i don't agree with, but still an amazing video!
This is hype. Love your other lore videos, youre the only one really on the Radagon is a mimic trip and the closest to what i think is right on the GEQ stuff.
The Muslim GOLDen age comparison was honestly impressive. The analysis of one of Marika's echoes and your interpretation of it as being Radagon's instead is also very impressive. I enjoyed this video from start to finish, excellent work my guy.
The eternal cities themselves have a strong achemical tradition, they produced the potion that creates puppets, the rite of absolution, the mimics and more... Perfuming is basically chemistery, and chemists are considered priests of the erdtree, showing the importance of the practice in the golden order. Also some of their recipies use eternal city materials, and they have similar drip to the nox monks.
This is a great video. As a new elden ring player who hasn’t played any fromsoftware game, it gives me a glimmer of insight into what I’m about to walk into.
I like your connection between the Erdtree bounty and “bounty” of blood from Godfrey’s campaign and colosseums. I’m curious if we can see any signs of pot collectors for dead opponents or spots for blood collection in the arenas themselves during the pvp battles.
Very convincing theory. It was very frustrating, during my first playthrough, to not know the reason for the cause of basically the entire game's story. I had hoped that they were saving the reveal for the very end of the game, but I clearly underestimated Fromsoft's commitment to keeping the story ambiguous, down to even the most crucial plot points. I can't say though that I don't respect Miyazaki's resolve in recreating his childhood experiences like this, even if I personally didn't enjoy it.
I do think you're overlooking some sources to create your own narrative but you make some interesting points as well: Night of the Black Knives. The text that was released before the launch of the game (linked to Ranni but no proof, could also be Ofnir). Explains how Marika because of the assassination made her destroy the ring. Gloam eyed Queen was an empyrean (remember, they're chosen by the Greater Will) that threatened the demigods with destined death. The comet that hit her "hometown" in the nox area. Why would the Nox be fighting for a new god if their kin was ruling the order? And why would her kin be banished if she was their god? I personally believe that Marika fought the crucible, to raise the erdtree, fought the giants to make the erdtree invincible and then got "betrayed" by the Greater Will multiple times. I think this has been a power struggle for millenniums between Marika the God and the Greater Will. Marika was loyal but realised the Erdtree wasn't an ally but all her powers stemmed from the Erdtree so she couldn't bring an end to it, therefore either Lords or Tarnished, whoever was strong enough would make a new order. This is what the Golden Mask realised; the gods are imperfect and brings chaos to the greater will. Ranni also disagreed with this premise: there shouldn't be any greater influence over life, that we should all be stars fleeting in the galaxy. And Marika didn't care, she knew that we needed a new age and whoever was strong enough to best all of them was the only one worthy of bringing in the new age.
Few thoughts 1) I do agree that Marika had a master plan because of what Gideon armor set description tell us, Marika achieved "end of knowledge, something that should not be", which scared Gideon and he was sure we are set to fail (Maybe I am looking too much into it, but maybe Marika's original plan was to fell Greater Will somehow and she failed in that ambition? She as a "man" could not slay a "God" and thus whatever ending we choose, Greater Will is still out there, even in frenzied flame ending, because that Melina scene clearly implies that situation is truly dire but still salvagable) 2) I think all trios of kids have the same role for them in this story - the Golden lineage are to preserve golden order (Godwyn being initial succesor, Morgot being defender of Leyndell, Mohg by thwarting Miquella's plan), Radagon kids are to oppose it (Rykard's heresy, Radahn's war on stars, Ranni's plot) and finally Marika lineage, and I think its right as tarnished arheologist said, their role to be actuall successors of the order beyond original root system (Melina will burn the old tree, Malenia will defend Miquella and Miquella will bring new age) but all of them were born cursed and crippled and probably that the reason why it was never actually happened in time Marika had planned it 3) Black knives do not share same goal with Ranni, their leader is imprison near her place, they try to assassinate her and all of her followers, her age of stars is removal of the order while Nox wanted only rule of stars (also I think their symbolic moon descriptions is different), she co-conspired with them but ultimately used them and they were not pleased as if they didnt actually achieved anything meaningful. While Marika could still be at the top of this conspiracy its not so crystal clear and becomes contrived. 4) There are also few loose threads like third eternal city beyond Leyndell main gate, which was obviously dropped down much later than previous two and not by Greater Will ire, timeline of old dynasty, great tree and nox empire, GEQ and her connection to Melina or Marika and etc. In overall my feelings of current elden ring lore landscape that we have most of its symbolism, real life world history and religion analogies and actuall events mapped out in this puzzle but we are missing very few small points to finally for everything to "click" and fall into its place. Sorry for bad grammar.
6:45 This line tells me Marika might've been specifically trying to utilized death rite birds powers, as in the source of the Red and Blue-Feathered Branchswords. As in she's confident that this power is necessary slay an eternal god. The fact that this may have been included in her plans all along, is just interesting to me considering she's the one who sealed away destined death in the first place.
So Marika is Numen, and she might have founded the eternal cities inhabited by the Nox people, then for some reason the Greater Will sent Astel to sink all the eternal cities. The Nox wanted the Age of Stars, so the Greater Will literally took their sky away. This is extremely cruel and genocidal on the Greater Will's part. If Marika was indeed the founder, or at least an important leading member of the eternal cities, she would want revenge by any means necessary. I speculate that her sinister plan all along is to destroy everything the Greater Will hold dear to, no matter lands, order or people, in retaliation to the decimation of her own people.
They were trying to kill the Fingers, the GW didn’t send Astel for just “some reason”, it was because they made a very grave trespass against its greatest servants, and persisted in that goal even after their punishment.
I think there is more proof than not that Marika is an avatar of the Erdtree, and despite Radagon being Marika, Marika is not Radagon. She lured him into the Erdtree, appeared before him, looked him in the eyes, and said "lets us be shattered, my other self." In doing so, she sacrificed herself to imprison him until some lowly Tarnished of no repute could finish him off. She became the formless mother. She sent Godfrey away because she did not want them to become part of the Erdtree, and the signal to come back was the shattering of the Elden Ring throwing remnants of grace everywhere.
Why did the golden order choose an enemy to be elden lord? I didnt understand the connection you made between the celestial dew rite and then choosing Marika, someone who probably harbors animosity.
Celestial dew is used in a rite of the eternal cities that manipulates fate. It gets rid of all antogonizations, which would make it possible for the 2 fingers to chose marika as an empyrean despite her being from the eternal cities.
@@Kosmos_er so...the eternal cities would have done the rite on Marika so she had no outward antagonism and could be picked by the golden order? And if so, wouldn't that actually rid marika of her antagonism like internally?
@@ruperthart5190 It gets rid of antagonizations towards the one performing the rite. It woudn't change anything about marika's own feelings, but makes it so the fingers woudn't mind choosing her. Marika became a god fully intending the shatter the system from the inside.
@@Kosmos_er but that only makes sense if either the dew works on the greater will(which is hard to believe) or the greater will is out of the picture(more likely)
This is a reply I made to someone who had commented on the video and figured I'd throw it in as a regular comment (Not trying to discredit or dismiss Kosmos or there awesome emancipation theory, and maybe this could help add to it): I think Hawkshaw has the theory that Melina is a sort of offshoot of Ranni, in the same way that Millicent is an offshoot of Melania. And the idea that they are a part of Ranni's/Melania's whole being or personality removed from there whole, and seemingly their own person. And maybe Radagon is similar, only for one reason or another, they still occupy the same body. Perhaps it's Marikas doing and she intentionally took Melania from Ranni (Melania being the essence that possibly schemed with Marika, or the embodiment of the memories of such) or perhaps the doing of the greater will (Radagon is seemingly trying to repair the Elden Ring and perhaps is the part of Marika that wishes to remain loyal). And Saint Trina may similarly be an offshoot of Miquella. I might be wrong, but it seems to be a phenomenon only present in Empyreans. Also, Ranni burnt her body and Melina has burns and doesn't understand why. Which supports the idea of her being a part of Ranni. It might also be that Ranni is unknowingly being manipulated by Marika. Sorry for the book length reply, lol.
Very much looking forward to the argument as to how/why the endings fit into Marika's desires. The default ending certainly doesn't feel like Marika is free or the Greater Will defeated/punished.
I've always found the "Ranni and Marika were co-conspirators" theory hard to believe, because Marika and Ranni were so fundamentally opposed. Marika (as Radagon) destroyed Ranni's mother and her kingdom. Seeing how violently protective Ranni is of Rennala, I can't ever see her working with the person who ruined her life. Ranni and Marika co-conspiring with each other would only make sense if Marika changed her mind about the GW at some point between the Liurnian Wars and the Shattering (and even then, that'd be a big stretch). But more importantly, if Marika really was a closet moon pagan the whole time, why wouldn't she have teamed up with Liurnia in its prime against the Greater Will? That seems like a much smarter plan than the whole shattering thing. Rennala's Liurnia was the ultimate shrine to the moon outer god, and Marika destroyed it. I think that's the biggest hole in your theory.
You simply can't oppose the greater will through the might of civilization. Even with the support of a fate-guiding moon outer god, you only have to think back of the eternals and their now destroyed black moon who was the guide of countless stars. As for ranni being willing to cooperate with Marika in spite of what happened with rennala, I don't think it's out of character for ranni. After all her whole philosophy is actually very much in line with Marika's, as in the end justifies the means. And her explicitly expressing the grim path she has to walk to achieve her goal "betray everything". Ultimately it's subjective perception of the character without direct references in game, but to me ranni would do it.
@@Kosmos_er So, let's try to make Marika's plan make sense by working backwards. She knows that destroying the Elden Ring means destroying herself, so she needs a moon-worshipping Empyrean to lead the age of stars for after she sacrifices herself. So that's why she created Radagon and then married and divorced Rennala, so she could "legally" adopt Ranni as her stepdaughter. She knows that Ranni can only defeat Radagon and the Elden Beast with the Tarnished, so that's why she created the Tarnished (+Melina) and did the whole thing with Godfrey. But then why did she pump out all of those other children? As fodder for the Tarnished to get strong enough to beat the Elden Beast? Were they just trial-and-error attempts at making an Empyrean? Then why did she pump out Miquella and Malenia (and possibly Messmer) afterwards? Insurance? Why did she wage so many wars and commit so many genocides (Fire Giants, Godskin, Albinarics, Those Who Live in Death, Traveling Merchants) in the name of the Greater Will/Golden Order? To gain its trust while she stalled for her Ranni + Tarnished plans to unfold? I think there's a lot of fat in Marika's plan.
@@snowblind9551 first let me start of by saying you got a point in general, there is a lot of fat in Marika plan but I wanna try to address some of the examples you gave and then add my own. The issue of Marika's children is interesting, some like the carian children can be explained as her needing to produce a ranni, considering she is the youngest of those we know about (based on the JP) marigon might have dipped after she felt her job was done with rennala. But others like the golden lineage might have to do with the expectations of her producing heirs. After all the whole elden system seems to be based on the god taking a consort. But the case of miquella might be different, as the potential former master of torrent, it would imply he was definitely involved into the marika-melina-ranni squad, and has as such a role to play. Masmer is a whole can of worms, he also seems to have had a specific purpose for Marika but was later ditched when that was done (and he might be salty about it, which is another parallel between him and rykard). But there is also the question of his origins and him potentially being the child of the previous god with Marika (radagon). But like miquella we don't have to wait too long to get more context. So ultimately you have the useful children and those made along the way, or made as a formality. Which brings me to the night of knives. It's virtually impossible to be sure of the point of that night from Marika's perspective, but one might be the trimmings of the fat... Leaving only those with an active role to play and the others whose only purpose is to stalemate each other. As for the genocides you mentioned only the fire giant one can be directly assigned to Marika, and that had the clear goal of safe guarding against their fire, and just generally subjugating the lands between. The others were basically the golden order or fundamentalists doing their thing, there is hardly anything in game we know was decreed by Marika herself, and those cases don't extend beyond the initial conquest. Hell the case of the merchants might even post date the shattering, since that's when supposedly frenzy started to appear. Even tho I'm given justifications to the things to listed, I do agree there is a lot of fat. And a lot of it we just don't have enough info to answer the "why" of it. After all the golden order probably lasted millennias, why was it only now time to shatter the ring? Why not sooner? Why the erdtree exists at all? Why the golden order specifically? Why the night of knives etc... I have some ideas for some of these questions but ultimately not all, here is hoping the DLC adds crumbs for ua
@@Kosmos_er I just thought of another thing. If Marika's intentions remained static for the entirety of her reign, then that makes Radagon harder to explain. The general consensus for Radagon is that he and Marika WERE one in the same at some point, but eventually their wills diverged between loyalism vs. rebellion towards the Greater Will, culminating with the Shattering. How would Radagon remain loyal to the Greater Will, if Marika's intent to betray it likely predates his creation? Is Radagon like a sleeper agent installed in Marika by the Greater Will or something?
@@snowblind9551 to me radagon's will was unique to himself and independant from Marika from the moment he came into being. He was largely seeking his own identity and path during his life while being under Marika's control. No idea how much of Marika's plan he was aware of before the shattering if at all. For context, I think radagon was created by Marika as a copy of herself.
I call this one the Marika’s S-cide Theory, which expands even more to the idea that she herself, was the GEQ.. A holder of death before she was convinced to become eternal. It wouldn’t be the first time a mother would abandon her children with it?
I wish we are not so infantalized that even typing out suicide is taboo. Newsflash. Of course the topic is uncomfortable. It comes with the territory. There is a different between being mindful and sensitive and infantalization and diluting the topic at hand.
Your thoughts on this topic are definitely interesting, and I've been suspecting for a while that Marika [or Radagon] had the vision of the tree burning- though, my ideas about the story come out differently from what you're eluding to here. Either way, the forbidden vision definitely seems like it ties in somewhere.
I kinda feel like marika never called radagon to be her consort, but that he kinda forced himself into royalty by having the upper hand on her in some way and threatening marika. And i also believe that radagon and marika weren’t always one person, but rather they merged together (probably after the shattering), maybe the greater will even merged them, so radagon‘s order can keep marika‘s rebelliousness in check. (In this case it also could‘ve been the greater will, not marika, who called radagon to the erdtree)
its possible that it was her plan, if a god needs to die then she just needs to make someone else the god, if only marika can be god then just make someone else into marika
I've always assumed that line by Marika about making something of yourself or become sacrifices was talking about us killing them, and on that note I find it notable that Ranni and Miquella are unkillable by us. Renalla isn't a demigod so we shouldn't count her for being unkillable
This video was mind-blowing and made me think - what if the commonly thought timeline of the sinking of the Eternal Cities is also wrong? What if the Eternal Cities were above ground until after Goldwyn was murdered and the Shattering War broke out? We know that this is at least true for the Unnamed Eternal City that occupied the area near the main entrance to Leyndell (which is now a giant chasm in-game), as we see this entrance being assailed in the trailer cinematic’s depiction of the First Defense of Leyndell. Your video has made me think that in fact the sinking of the Eternal Cities took place much later in the timeline, after the Shattering and perhaps around the time that Marika herself was imprisoned.
She said she wanted to increase grace,find out how to do the right thing basically as she started seeing what she had done was her own mess,and she needs us to go to the shadow lands after brandishing the ring to stop messmer who has gone insane.Pulling death from the ring caused the lands of shadow or something to do with it.
I was wondering if you had any idea what the deal is with the Jesus imagery marika seems to be drawing from? As a Christian there’s a few things that just stick out to me. Depictions of marika show her with her hands stretched out, and while at first I thought it was just a pose they thought was cool, when you actually get to her boss room, it’s very obvious she’s been crucified and stabbed in her side. This is very similar to the crucifixion imagery of Jesus, who is also crucified and stabbed in his side. It’s also curious then that in hind sight it’s “grace” that guides the tarnished, when all forms of Christianity recognize the grace of God is a very important concept. The churches dedicated to Marika around the map also start to become curious given these little tidbits. I doubt these are all coincidence however I cannot for the life of me figure out HOW the Christian imagery is being used, and how it connects to everything else.
The end of the video with Marisa loyalty to a people “crushed” by the Golden Order is kinda ironic considering what happened to the The Great Caravan.😢
You mentioned how Marika has no problem sacrificing her children for her goals.. I have been watching a number of lore videos lately and have noticed that Marika gets around. She may have been popping out babies for the sole purpose of sacrificing the divines. Even changing herself into Radagon to conceive with Renala.. If this was all intentionally to serve an elaborate purpose, perhaps she needed a more chimeric bloodline to ascend and oppose the Greater Will? Cross referencing this video with the one that had a translated Japanese theory of our tarnished being a demigod
just adding to my confused thoughts, the game makes mention of Marika stripping us of grace and sending us to die in the land of shadows until she sees the right moment. Could this have been to hide us from the Greater Will? The race selection says Numen are rarely born. In the Shadow trailer, the ovary looking creature could be in reference to a curse on Numen wombs, which is why she's slootin with other races in a 'spray and pray' effort to get revenge on the Greater Will for this curse.. sorry if anybody has trouble reading that, I'm too busy to articulate
Maybe it's because I was playing this alongside watching Succession but Marika gives off Logan vibes to me. Logan was ok with sacrificing his son Kendall and even mentioned to Romulus that "there is going to be a night of the long knives". Which for anyone who knows what that's about, strength lens the theory of Marika being involved in the assassin's plot. Why the assassins would turn on Ranni and Iji I don't quite understand tho...
I honestly lean towards their death as being part of a "leave no loose ends" part of the plan. It's very harsh but it seems iji at the very least was aware that was gonna happen, and ranni kinda laments that when you talk to her before the baleful shadow
I think the question we need too ask is “what or who does Marika love” before lore deep dives and still some general consensus, it’s thought she shattered it out of grief that Godwyn was killed, but he was the greatest champion the golden order had so he had too be the first to go(Marika being the biggest figure in the plot that took him) so she held no maternal love for Godwyn neither do I believe for any of her kids(as shown by the echo) and oddly enough I feel she either respects, admires or at least has some affection for Ranni as she actively works against everything Marika should stand for yet is Ranni’s(except for Renala) biggest supporter from the shadows. Just some thoughts
I just wonder why UA-camrs keep saying merika shattered the Elden ring and that caused the shattering war. The beginning of the game specifically says the demigods went mad with the shards of the Elden ring causing the shattering so doesn’t that mean it was destroyed afterwards?
I thoroughly believe that Marika wants to be free from the control of the Greater Will. Although not by her directly, we hear from Ranni, how fearsome and controlling the Great God can be - since she stripped off her own body to rid herself of his envoys, the Two Fingers, to 'not be controlled by that thing'. I really missed the Scarseal/Soreseal Talismans from Radagon and Marika in this video - they are maybe the most direct (though still very indirect) clues on what Marika/Radagons relationship with the Greater Will was - and thus a sprouting point of her motivation to rebel against it or emancipate herself. The Scarseals, engraved into eyes, 'represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods' and the Soreseals, to which they likely evolve, color this solemn duty as 'weighing upon the one beholden; not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance'. Ranni might have surmised as much as Marika experienced by first hand, when she was chosen as an Empyrean. However a holy duty of a chosen one to a god might be - if there is no deliverance from it, it is just like a curse. If that is a short glimpe into Marikas perspective on her own duty as a god of the Greater Will, bound by the Elden Beast, it would become quite understandable why she would go to such lengths as sending her first husband on a crusade, enslaving master craftsmen and former enemies as guards, leashing her Shadowbound Beast onto a deformity of the Elden Ring, shattering said Elden Ring and maybe even turning her children against each other and birthing a Kindling Maiden from the remains of an old god she once had defeated. What I just can't fit into that theory are the words of Gideon Ofnir, when we encounter him as an adversary in the Erdtree Sanctuary. He seems to believe that Marikas Plan does not have Telos but strives towards a form of Regression or new state of Perpetuity: a 'continued struggle, unto eternity'. Are those the words of a fool, some scholar who found some clues and grossly misunderstood them? Or is there even more to Marikas Plan he hints at?
As for what I said "Tarnished the dead you yet lived" what if the grace we tarnished had was NONE Maria's grace but from one that somehow related to death, yet is long before gone?
In a way, Marika's fate, is what would happen to Ranni if she hadn't discarded her flesh. Both Ranni and Melina seem to be able to circunvent the greater will's power after becoming "bodiless"
Damn this was a more structured way of my own point of view. Believe that the fruit of her efforts to forge a new God of her own flesh is everywhere in the Lands Between. Golden order just the latest way of trying to achieve her goal. Maybe you're getting there or going someplace else, but I've a suspicion that Marika like Sellen after her have switched her essense to another body. And just like with Malenia and her sense of Pride in Millicent, Ranni is a sense of Marika that in the end got chosen to be "her" after attempts with Godwyn, Miquella and Radagon. Looking forward to more clues in Shadow of the Erdtree
The Code is Cracked! Travel to Maliketh, The Black Blade Site of Grace after you defeat him and aquire The Rune of Death. The Elden Ring with the statues and the floor decor is the Decoder for Weapons, Poses, Attire, Everything! Try wearing Gideon Offnirs attire, walk up to the candles, turn your back to the Elden Ring and start lining everything up! It has worked with everything I've tried so far. Also Marika is more than likely the witch that Sellen's Mask is based off of. The statue looks like a younger witch, the mask is a more mature witch. Happy Holidays and Happy Lore Hunting!
If Marika really did originate from the Eternal Cities and always planned to hijake and destroy the Greater Will's order, than his real mistake was not killing all the Numen instead of imprisoning them underground. Come to think of it, it's a surprisingly tame and merciful punishment for dealing with troublemakers that threaten his order, since he really just gave the Numen a different realm to inhabite and rule over. Marika sure loved to resort to violence for solving her problems though, and her hatred of the Greater Will is probably the reason why the Omen and Misbegotten were mistreated. She's definitely evil for the mistreatment part to be real.
is the greater will that shortsighted that it would choose Marika to be vessel when in the end she would shatter the elden ring? Why do different characters - who claim to be receiving guidance directly or indirectly from the greater will and through the fingers etc - seem to have opposing goals? why are we sent to the erdtree only to be fought when we get there?
the fingers were simply not aware of the full scope of the situation inside the erdtree, we are fought there because we are meant to kill marika/radagon/elden beast... which radagon/EB do not want
@@Kosmos_er ah, ty. so why are the two fingers lagging on this info? at the start of the game they are still receiving guidance - yet send us down the path to the erdtree?
and if finger reader is the one who informs us of markias imprisonment - how do the two fingers not know? i guess they could have heard from somewhere else, but just seems unlikely the fingers wouldnt know this. unless you are referring to more by the “full scope” of the situation. but still not sure i understand why EB would want to protect Marika. certainly it can transplant the order to someone/somewhere else
@@CyberSerumYT The fingers are heavily implied to be broken after the shattering by multiple characters, they just don't seem to ahve a full grasp of the situation aside from knowing marika is inside the tree. EB would be protecting marika only so far as it is protecting itself, and marika wants to be killed for the same reasons, to kill the EB
You made a lot of connections I hadn’t heard before, and overall I think the theory is solid. Do you have any idea why the Black Knives seem to oppose Ranni in the present, though? Their attacks on Ranni’s people (Iji, Blaidd, probably Selivus too) seem to imply that the Black Knives (and perhaps the Nox as a whole) believe they were wronged by Ranni’s plot, as if they weren’t privy to the entire plan and feel betrayed. Not to mention that we need to steal the fingerslayer blade for Ranni; if the groups were still working together, they simply would’ve given it to Ranni freely.
Currently I lean more towards ranni having iji and blaid killed as a necessary part of her plan to cut loose ends. She mentions how she feels about their unconditional support despite the fact they know she "must betray everything ". And she doesn't seem to care to do anything about blaid going mad under her window, while blaid himself screams that he hasn't betrayed her while fighting the assassins. Even iji knows he will be dying soon when you talk to him, and used to leave a will to express his remorse for imprisoning blaid. As for why they didn't hand her the FSB, I honestly don't know. For some reason nokron seems to be literally inaccessible, not sure how that's supposed to work.
Ranni explicitly says, that godwyn's death "drove Marika to the brink" that is all. She also proceeds to explicitly say "the elden ring was shattered, but by whom, and why?" So no she doesn't say Marika shattered the ring because of godwyn, in fact she does the opposite and poses the question
due to new content i think miquela charmed marika to create the aage of compassion and destroy the golden order and that is why radhan refused to fulfil the vow and stopped his fate by stopping stars. I think miquella controlled his mother and made her destroy the elden ring in order for him to reach his goals.
Hope you all enjoyed this video!
As usual your feedback in the comments is very much appreciated, so let me know what you think.
Next video will explore the events surounding the destruction of the eternal cities and their ties to the numen.
I think it's interesting that the nox specifically invoked the greater wills ire, as in it was so long ago there wasn't an order that would punish them on it's behalf. When? Between the age of ancient dragons and giants perhaps?
@@whatsnewbois9814 that's actually a good question, I have an idea of timeline of events that I will eventually develop
please tell me this wont be another video slandering the greater will
@@colorpg152 depends what you mean by slander 😏
@@Kosmos_er i was afraid this was going to be another video that tries to make ranni and marika into perfect liberators but so far it seems like one of the few videos who sees marika for what she is, although i dont quite agree with how you portrayed the tree as being some blood sucking parasite, i think its just a recycle machine it has no malice and marika removing death broke it
Here's my final interpretation of Elden Ring's backstory:
I have absolutely no idea what happened.
Incest and Political Backstabbing.
On baby 💀
😂🤣😂🤣
That’s fair.
I never thought of Marika "The Eternal" as a name for a place of Origin but it's literally so simple that it becomes overlooked. Brilliant.
Holy hell. I've always been of the opinion that Marika did indeed have a hand in the Night of the Black Knives, but recontextualizing the "My Comrades" dialogue towards Radagon shook the entire foundation of why I thought so.
Damn dude. Mind literally chaos blown and on fire right now. Once I thought Marika had a crisis of faith. Now I am more than willing to buy that she waged war on fate, and that she was never loyal to the Greater Will.
I am so looking forward to your other videos because damn. This one...this one is going to need some time to fully sink in.
Those are big words of praise, thank you! I'll do my best to deliver the rest of theory in a satisfying manner.
How about their T gestures; we all know that similar to Gesú nailed in the Cross, did Christant do that? No!
all the Land Between's Church has their Crucified gestures; that mean it happen along time ago, before Maria become a God.
Also we know That cause of that is Elden Beast' Divine Punishment;
so Marika panic roll (again) , be catched then hanged; Radagon swiched with her and be nailed by the golden thorn (funny how protection symbol attualy torture device)
at the end they are just the Elden Beast's slave or tool ,
Marika want to make a weapon to kill God , Why? when She is the only God by the Golden Order?; And the wound of Elden Beast they leave ? I think all the Great Rune come from Elden Beast body.
then God only fell when Elden Beast defeated ?
I think that Elden Beast hide inside Marika body at the beginning (like Flame of Frenzy hidding in Lord of Frenzy' body) make she became a God; the hint word is "GodSkin": the GodSlayer blade is very similar to the Sarced Relic
the helix shape and the R2 pose; may be before Marika, The Gloam-eyed Queen is the first candidate for the god; when she have no used Elden Beast turned her into a sword and separate Dead from Golden Oder, like turn Radagon into the sword.
The question is the red spear in the Marika belly, who did that? The fight betwen Marika( Radagon) and the Elden Beast must be someone else in that fight?
Radagon use Spear incantation, Kyle use spear but with madness; and Acient Dragons use lighning Spear; who have destioned dead spear? Godwyn ?(frend with Dragon so he has spear)? or she take the spear before the fight make the crack in her body ? (the trailer don't show the exactly the wound)
What if Godwyn betray Marika first, so we have the Night of the Black knifes
....
(i started to thing i too Ranni simp )
in the end the open story is crazy; the author give a bunch of hint but not complete;
So it developes in side every single reader's mind by our infinity imagination, lot of theory, all of it was right.. make the story so deep meaning and so huge @@
Marika was tempted by the elden beast and managed to wound it once she realized the horrible bargain she struck in agreeing to be its vessel. It's a parasitic space alien after all lol.
Damn, the connection between "Marika's unwanted children" and her involvement in the Night of Black Knives is SUCH a good point!
It’s a common position but I’ve heard an argument against it too
What sort of argument do you hear against it. It is very clearly said 'unwanted children OF Marika' meaning Marika is in the habit or at least the tendency of 'desiring' to get rid of some of her demigods by killing them. And since its been said Godwyn was the first to fall. Those dead demigods cant be before that moment. (If it is then it implicates Marika's involvement and media manipulation EVEN MORE). So if we even assume they all died on the night of the black knives, then it basically follows Marika had a hand in it. I'm not seeing an argument that can explain this in a way that makes Marika innocent or unaware of those deaths.@@DavidVallner
@@Arda-dq4rt That’s very thin circumstantial evidence. The ghost says there is *one* unwanted child of Marika in *one* of the mausoleums. This does not really imply she does not care for any of her children. I do in fact believe the dead demigods are more likely to be from before the Shattering War, most likely the conflict wirh the Gloam-Eyed Queen who we know was defeated by Marika and her Godskins specialized in hunting gods. But as clear it is this conflict happened it only shows up in lore very late and doesn’t really inform the culture of Marika’s realm, which does in fact hint towards it being memory-holed; this would make sense as something done to keep it a secret that there could be gods other than Marika and orders other than hers.
Tarnished Archaeologist claims there is in fact very compelling evidence in the environment that this sort of historical revisionism took place to move Marika up to being the head of the religious belief system of the lands and erase traces of her ever being anything but an eternal divine being, so it would only follow the idea of there ever having been contenders to the position would get suppressed.
But I don’t see how from this you would deduce “and therefore she sacrificed Godwyn for yet another plot.” As a counterpoint, the Golden Order = “nothing can die” was something she presumably lost these unwanted children to establish. (Which I think is more as fodder in that war as opposed to plotting their demise.) One can equally assume that the son she granted eternal life to she did care for enough to be genuinely griefstricken.
Two other problems for this theory are motivation and motive. I’m not aware of off the top of my head of clues indicating Marika did in fact intend to undo the Golden Order before the Shattering, and I’m aware of no answer as to why Godwyn’s death would be necessary to do so. It seems like she had some degree of latitude to reform the order having pruned the primordial Elden Ring to the Golden Order incarnation. Equally she could just take the hammer to the ring whenever she wanted, I don’t see why Godwyn dying would be the precondition.
General frustration with there being a Golden Order is very clearly Ranni’s thing, it’s much more of an assumption that Marika shares it. If anything it’s Melina that represents Marika’s agenda during the events of the game, and if that were the case, wouldn’t she steer you towards Ranni’s ending or away from say Goldmask’s, which is “make it better by getting rid of free will”?
@@DavidVallner well that logic wouldnt work as it makes "the first death of yhe demigods" phrase null. No other demigod of Marika died BEFORE Godwyn. Now if you are making the argument that was a lie by the narrator, then it is even worse because "Godwyn being the 1st to die" is a cover up by Marika media manipulation which means she did killed those demigods in muselousm "unwanted children" btw Before godwyn under wraps. It is even more incriminating! The motivation is there. Godwyn helped ascend dragon race in the capital. The former dragon lord is Placidusax so there is an ample reason to harbor hatred for Godwyn.
@@DavidVallner unwanted children is a theme as in those in museleums are killed because of thei relationship to Marika. She even says "...if you are nothing you'll be sacrcrifices". Those in museloums are the sacrifices so that when she shatters the ER, they wont get the great runes and strangthened unlike Malenia, Radahn etc. It makes perfect sense
When you mentioned the part about Marika not really being too attached to her "unwanted" children, I began recalling a thought I had recently. About how the Lands Between really seems to have a massive lack of any sorts of empathy. Out of all the characters, events, names, and things in Elden Ring very few seem to really believe or practice any form of kindness. Despite whatever Marikas meddling, demigods rampaging, monsters hunting, and ring breaking did in damage, I get the impression that the Lands Between could still have avoided falling into utter silent dead decay had the remaining peoples been able to work together and talk over falling into even more factionalism and killing. In essence, by choosing poorly, they sealed the deal.
Not really too surprising that the whole place fell apart and is a mere husk. Even re-assembling the Elden Ring seems kinda pointless, as it's just a continuation of the cycle of violence, with hardly anyone left to form anything new with.
Is this frenzied flame propaganda by any chance?
@@soleo2783 may chaos take the world¡¡¡¡¡
It's why I love the goldmask ending since it completely screws over Marika and her scheming because no matter what outcome you choose Deathroot is still going to consume the world. Even if Ranni's ending sounds nice on paper you are just basicallly leaving the world in total anarchy with Deathroot and those who live in death still haunting the world.
You raise a good point with deathroot, but i'll hold on until the DLC to form an opinion that. Since miquella being in the teaser image with torrent really thickens the plot a good bit.
to me ranni doesnt seem that different from marika, but i think ranni sort of betrayed marika and that the spliting of the mark was not the original intention of godwyn's death, that would explain why the ring leader of the black knives is locked up on her place
@@Kosmos_erGodwyn is dead dead dead. Are we missing the central theme of ALL souls games?
Some have the power to resist the natural progression of the world, and in doing so, distorting the nature of it in order to stave off their lessening control of that power.
Resisting change inevitably leads to conflict and the distortion of ideals in order to attain the power that will be able to dictate the change you want.
One of the most impact full ER lore videos I've seen. It even got me to create a timeline on miro.
From what we now know from the dlc, marika wasn’t always so cold to her children. In fact, to messer (her secret elder son) she practically coddled him to try and stop his affliction until hiding him away.
Painting a portrait of a mother who lost one son, had one betray her to be eaten by a serpent, and one she had to hide away for his own sake. Never mind that all the others either had physical deformities or tended to overthrow her order.
No wonder why she just decided she just couldn’t do it anymore and shattered the Elden Ring.
I’m guessing Radagon fully trusted The Greater Will, whereas Marika began to lose faith. The Greater Will combined Radagon and Marika in order for Radagon to take over her body and maintain the Elden Ring.
I think radagon and Marika were always one.... but Marika was losing faith... while radagon was still holding his faith or blindness..... Marika was filled with doubt and betrayal of her fingers lies and the children she had by choice or force and them all basically being born diseased and cursed..... any mother would feel poorly over time about the gods when all her children and Even radagons kids have something wrong with them as well.......however ranni could see through the fingers goals and perhaps Marika allowed the sacrifice or was broken when her son was killed and it shatteredthe rest of any belief she had. I dont think she actually orchestrated the black knife event. Though she definitely started the shattering.
Kosmos, this is very on-point. I agree that understanding Marika’s motives is the key to unlocking the central meaning of the game’s lore. Also, imo there’s no point in making lore videos if you aren’t gonna offer a unique perspective and you definitely do that so cheers!
I've waited for this video months bro, needless to say the long wait was well worth it; you outdid yourself with this one
Love all the tie-ings you made and the simple, no bs editing and production
You, Crunchyy, Last Protagonist and Honored Madman are carrying actual lore videos, keep at it man
All the pieces just fell into place with this vid. The history and relationship between the Numen and Golden Order, Marika's name "The Eternal!"
It makes so much sense.
Marika was acting as saboteur on behalf of the Numen and Eternal City!
Something I don't get about this is that turning Marika into a God is one of the first moves the Greater Will does. So, it means that Marika was part of banishing the Nox... So how was she a saboteur from the beginning if she was the one who did the harm she's using as justification to sabotage the Greater Will?
Edit: just read the wiki. Apparently the Nox were banished before Marika was chosen by the Greater Will.
Thanks!
Really good video, thank you!
EldenTales has come out with a video that his theory is Radagon is a Champion misbegotten that was reborn essentially like a golden mimic tear using the amber egg.
I’ll definitely watch rewatch your Radagon mimic video and see what differs/similarities.
the only thing missing is the most important of all
"why"
marika having eternal as a surname, instead of a tittle, envisioning the age of the stars, and building the blocks to allow it to happens are very plausible, but lack pragmatism
marika order assimilated multiple different factions into its fold; the misbigotten, the cruscible, carians, perfurmers, trolls and dragons
marika expanded her society multiple times, she acted the same way the romans did
the prophecy of the cardinal sin existed before the war against the fire giants, it was an attempt to prevent it from happening
marika plucked destined death from the elden ring and sealed it within maliketh, creating the golden order
everything she does is always towards protecting the golden order, and she was both ruthless and pragmatic about it
she is also very pragmatic when sending godfrey and the tarnished away, it had to be something she planned to protect her order
but shattering the ring spelled her death, she has a shard of the rune of death lodged on her body, she is falling apart, we mend the elden ring inside her corpse
why? why did she sacrifice herself like that? was the aim to fight the Will? why? the will wanted to replace her with ranni, but she seems to be in league with the moon witch, and if she is colluding with the eternals of nokron, she should be able to use the blade forged to kill the fingers, she should be able to use the elden ring to fight against the greater will if that was the goal
the greater will is clearly an antagonist for marika, but if she dies in the process to fight it, what was the actual goal?
She wanted people to have free will
I think this might be my favorite theory out there. I’ve always had trouble reconciling a lot of the events being appropriately timed or not making sense to her personality. But this hits all the major parts I feel. Well done. 🥹
I always felt creeped out by the Numen and their Nox Civilization, it is even more horrible when you consider that both the creation of albinauric slaves, and puppet technology Seluvis and Carians use (one for sick pleasure, and the other to enslave the cuckoo knights) is directly created by rediscovering nox technology (the silver tear race created to be used as slaves, and the nox puppets showing the technology originated by them) it doesn’t help that Ranni’s cathedral is full of starlight shards, which is what’s used to enslave people! The more you look at it, the more their imposing presence is revealed, starting by Marika herself, and her children by bloodline being Numen, it’s not the perfect solution, but at least Goldmask’s ending prevents her from further tampering the Elden Ring, and someone like Ranni is even less trustworthy than Marika with her talk about freedom, then dabbling in this stuff.
Good catch with Celestial Dew, the effect seems to also affect DemiGods and Empyrean as seen with Ranni, I would not be surprised if it’s an offshoot of starlight shards.
Are you considering making another video about Marika? Now that DLC is released, the relationship between Nox people and shamans should be rather important.
i am considering it, but maybe i'll just adress it as part of a bigger video
U make a good point that i think pretty much everyone glosses over, sure maybe the death of Godwyn and/or kidnapping of Miquella may have changed or expedited the plan she always intended on the tarnished returning
ya im going to wake up early for this... the elden lore is ramping back up, DLC around the corner (hopefully)...things are looking up!!
I have seen a lot of ER lore videos and yours is the one i found myself agreeing with the most. Great job. I would have liked to hear you talk about some other things as well tho. Like how in the dialogue with the finger-reader in deeproot depths, she mentions that Godwyn was supposed to die a "true" death and serve as a martyr. That leaves us to believe that while Marika did orchestrate the night of the black knives, it didnt go exactly as she had planned. Ranni possibly went with the plan at first, but then acted on her own to discard her old body without losing her soul, thus "giving" Godwyn's in her place. Also, Gideon's dialogue before and after his boss fight seems really important. To me, Gideon is not really the All-knowing as he is portrayed, cause while he apparently glimpsed at Marika's true will, he didnt really understand it. He says marika wants the tarnished to struggle, but you wouldnt actively equip someone with all the tools to succeed (Melina for kindling and Hewg for god-slaying weapon), if you wanted them to only struggle.
The finger reader saying that godwyn "should have died a true death", doesn't strike me personally, as reference to anything more than simply lamenting the fact that he now lives in death and the shame it brings by being something unacceptable under the golden order.
As for guideon i had a part of the cript adressing his misunderstanding of marika's will but i ended scraping it because i couldn't make it flow properly in the video.
@@Kosmos_er hmm i dont know, why would you speak like that about someone that you dont want dying at all? death was not even a thing right before that night. he shouldnt have died ANY death in the first place if its just lament. i feel like theres more to it. Also the martyr part sounds like it was planned to be this way. its like a role he has to play in the whole scheme. maybe im wrong. anyway, thanks for the video and the talk. subbed
I'm glad I found your channel, you deserve more recognition. Great videos!!
I appreciate that!
This is the first video I’ve watched that FULLY blew my mind.
An example of how her plans were fated and prophesied which NO ONE has spoken about: all of the statues of Marika are in the pose she ended up in: crucified on the remains of the Elden ring. Why would they have made all the statues in this pose? Long before it happened? With no one really knowing this happened to her?
can't wait for the video that ties it all together
wow, this is really compelling. Fantastic job!
Very good theory. Though I'm not quite sure why the endings other than Ranni's play into Marika's hands? Seems like the Greater Will remains in control in all endings except for Frenzied Flame (which Marika surely didn't intend) and Age of Stars (which seems like the end goal of Numen and Nox legacy).
I was under the impression that in Goldmask's Perfect Order ending, Goldmask eliminates the Greater Will's influence. All endings except for the regular one in one way or another succeed in breaking the Greater Will's grip on the Golden Order. Except several of them serve other Outer Gods instead.
Perhaps the enemy Marika was trying to destroy wasn't the greater will, but the elden beast
This is correct. The only endings that remove or reduce its influence are the Age of Stars and Frenzied Flame (the latter of which melts basically all of existence into one)
@@patrickkinnear8625 You put the Elden Ring back together as well so that's not accomplished either
@@Laerei No, Goldmask eliminates the petty will of a host god like Marika. So long as there is an Order the Greater Will is exerting some kind of influence
I thougth Radagon made his first appearence as a laborer who became a champion only to fall at the hands of Godfrey at the fort in Whepping Peninsula
You have confused two different people as the same character. The guy at Castle Morne has nothing to do with Radagon
Radagon is the smith who led the rebelion. You can put it together by tracking the legacy of the area. As a example, in the Gaol of the area you fight someone who was captured during Radagon's revolt, a Zamor Hero who also happens to drop... And the church next to it has plenty of references to Radagon, including a shield. @@simonealcazar816
Great job Kos ! I found a somewhat probable inspiration for Marika which connect to her personality, Star/numerology and the "Hebrew" inspired Moses holding a stone tablet from the ancient dynasty who may have been a Numen.
According to namesfolder : "Marika is Hebrew Girl name and meaning of this name is "Rebellious Woman, Bitter, Star".
Based on numerology value 8, Marika is Practical, status loving, power-seeking, materialistic, fair, self-sufficient, loves controlling other, short tempered, stressful, cunning,Ambitious, Realistic, Powerful, Authoritative, Courageous and Leading.
I'm eagerly looking forward to your next videos 😊
Don't like the idea of numerology being involved and don't understand how, but if that is what Marika means, then good find.
The drape behind Marika in every statue is in the shape of an 8. And 8 rotated 90 degrees is the symbol for infinity in mathematics. So ties in with her Eternal aspect as well.
12:41 now that’s a take I haven’t heard before. The age of abundance was a direct consequence of the wars preceding it. Life energy/souls/runes glutted the tree and, at the cost of the many, a few had abundance for a time. But it was ultimately unsustainable.
Is there a metaphor in that? *cough imperialism cough* nah probably not
ALAS YOU HAVE RETURNED!!!
to grace us with more theories...
yay XD
I really liked this video, I was originally able to piece together the world shattering sheme of the Goddess, but it always fell short when it came to the why, then I stopped playing and hadnt come back to it until this month; as I keep on rediscovering the lands between, I'll keep in mind your words of wisdom
as a non native english speaker i find it a bit difficult to follow all those concepts and explanation but i'm watching it 0.25 speed pausing the video every 20 seconds to elaborate and MAN that's an amazing video.
There are a 90% of things I thought by myself and i haven't found any channel explaining in my same way, and here you did.
and a 10% that are things i didn't think/know, and some of them i don't agree with, but still an amazing video!
This is hype. Love your other lore videos, youre the only one really on the Radagon is a mimic trip and the closest to what i think is right on the GEQ stuff.
This is interesting and makes sense. I've always thought that Marika shattered the ER because of what happened to Godwyn. Great video!
That shot at 19:11 sent chills down my spine.
The Muslim GOLDen age comparison was honestly impressive. The analysis of one of Marika's echoes and your interpretation of it as being Radagon's instead is also very impressive. I enjoyed this video from start to finish, excellent work my guy.
Clicked this video SO fast. Welcome back brother!
30:20 Can you clarify on the perfumer/chemist connection to the eternal cities
The eternal cities themselves have a strong achemical tradition, they produced the potion that creates puppets, the rite of absolution, the mimics and more...
Perfuming is basically chemistery, and chemists are considered priests of the erdtree, showing the importance of the practice in the golden order.
Also some of their recipies use eternal city materials, and they have similar drip to the nox monks.
@@Kosmos_er Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. I never noticed the similarities in drip.
Video flowed by quickly, I barely noticed a hour pass.
This is a great video. As a new elden ring player who hasn’t played any fromsoftware game, it gives me a glimmer of insight into what I’m about to walk into.
Let’s gooooo goooood content has been uploaded
You returned!
May I ask what are you most looking forward in the DLC Kosmos or some say Kosm?
Literally everything
@@Kosmos_er a man of culture I see!
I like your connection between the Erdtree bounty and “bounty” of blood from Godfrey’s campaign and colosseums. I’m curious if we can see any signs of pot collectors for dead opponents or spots for blood collection in the arenas themselves during the pvp battles.
Very convincing theory. It was very frustrating, during my first playthrough, to not know the reason for the cause of basically the entire game's story. I had hoped that they were saving the reveal for the very end of the game, but I clearly underestimated Fromsoft's commitment to keeping the story ambiguous, down to even the most crucial plot points. I can't say though that I don't respect Miyazaki's resolve in recreating his childhood experiences like this, even if I personally didn't enjoy it.
I do think you're overlooking some sources to create your own narrative but you make some interesting points as well:
Night of the Black Knives. The text that was released before the launch of the game (linked to Ranni but no proof, could also be Ofnir). Explains how Marika because of the assassination made her destroy the ring.
Gloam eyed Queen was an empyrean (remember, they're chosen by the Greater Will) that threatened the demigods with destined death.
The comet that hit her "hometown" in the nox area.
Why would the Nox be fighting for a new god if their kin was ruling the order? And why would her kin be banished if she was their god?
I personally believe that Marika fought the crucible, to raise the erdtree, fought the giants to make the erdtree invincible and then got "betrayed" by the Greater Will multiple times.
I think this has been a power struggle for millenniums between Marika the God and the Greater Will. Marika was loyal but realised the Erdtree wasn't an ally but all her powers stemmed from the Erdtree so she couldn't bring an end to it, therefore either Lords or Tarnished, whoever was strong enough would make a new order.
This is what the Golden Mask realised; the gods are imperfect and brings chaos to the greater will. Ranni also disagreed with this premise: there shouldn't be any greater influence over life, that we should all be stars fleeting in the galaxy. And Marika didn't care, she knew that we needed a new age and whoever was strong enough to best all of them was the only one worthy of bringing in the new age.
I may be wrong, but I don't believe the Japanese description says the nox got banished underground. The wording is more vague in Japanese.
This might be your best video
I really like your theory it makes so much sense to me
Few thoughts
1) I do agree that Marika had a master plan because of what Gideon armor set description tell us, Marika achieved "end of knowledge, something that should not be", which scared Gideon and he was sure we are set to fail (Maybe I am looking too much into it, but maybe Marika's original plan was to fell Greater Will somehow and she failed in that ambition? She as a "man" could not slay a "God" and thus whatever ending we choose, Greater Will is still out there, even in frenzied flame ending, because that Melina scene clearly implies that situation is truly dire but still salvagable)
2) I think all trios of kids have the same role for them in this story - the Golden lineage are to preserve golden order (Godwyn being initial succesor, Morgot being defender of Leyndell, Mohg by thwarting Miquella's plan), Radagon kids are to oppose it (Rykard's heresy, Radahn's war on stars, Ranni's plot) and finally Marika lineage, and I think its right as tarnished arheologist said, their role to be actuall successors of the order beyond original root system (Melina will burn the old tree, Malenia will defend Miquella and Miquella will bring new age) but all of them were born cursed and crippled and probably that the reason why it was never actually happened in time Marika had planned it
3) Black knives do not share same goal with Ranni, their leader is imprison near her place, they try to assassinate her and all of her followers, her age of stars is removal of the order while Nox wanted only rule of stars (also I think their symbolic moon descriptions is different), she co-conspired with them but ultimately used them and they were not pleased as if they didnt actually achieved anything meaningful. While Marika could still be at the top of this conspiracy its not so crystal clear and becomes contrived.
4) There are also few loose threads like third eternal city beyond Leyndell main gate, which was obviously dropped down much later than previous two and not by Greater Will ire, timeline of old dynasty, great tree and nox empire, GEQ and her connection to Melina or Marika and etc.
In overall my feelings of current elden ring lore landscape that we have most of its symbolism, real life world history and religion analogies and actuall events mapped out in this puzzle but we are missing very few small points to finally for everything to "click" and fall into its place. Sorry for bad grammar.
6:45
This line tells me Marika might've been specifically trying to utilized death rite birds powers, as in the source of the Red and Blue-Feathered Branchswords. As in she's confident that this power is necessary slay an eternal god. The fact that this may have been included in her plans all along, is just interesting to me considering she's the one who sealed away destined death in the first place.
So picking Marika is the greater will's mistake as the three fingers put it...
So Marika is Numen, and she might have founded the eternal cities inhabited by the Nox people, then for some reason the Greater Will sent Astel to sink all the eternal cities. The Nox wanted the Age of Stars, so the Greater Will literally took their sky away. This is extremely cruel and genocidal on the Greater Will's part. If Marika was indeed the founder, or at least an important leading member of the eternal cities, she would want revenge by any means necessary. I speculate that her sinister plan all along is to destroy everything the Greater Will hold dear to, no matter lands, order or people, in retaliation to the decimation of her own people.
They were trying to kill the Fingers, the GW didn’t send Astel for just “some reason”, it was because they made a very grave trespass against its greatest servants, and persisted in that goal even after their punishment.
Amazing theory! One that i probably will subscirbe to ngl
The Lands between are such a beautiful Dystopia . Eldenring is a work of art .
I think there is more proof than not that Marika is an avatar of the Erdtree, and despite Radagon being Marika, Marika is not Radagon. She lured him into the Erdtree, appeared before him, looked him in the eyes, and said "lets us be shattered, my other self." In doing so, she sacrificed herself to imprison him until some lowly Tarnished of no repute could finish him off. She became the formless mother. She sent Godfrey away because she did not want them to become part of the Erdtree, and the signal to come back was the shattering of the Elden Ring throwing remnants of grace everywhere.
Why did the golden order choose an enemy to be elden lord? I didnt understand the connection you made between the celestial dew rite and then choosing Marika, someone who probably harbors animosity.
Celestial dew is used in a rite of the eternal cities that manipulates fate.
It gets rid of all antogonizations, which would make it possible for the 2 fingers to chose marika as an empyrean despite her being from the eternal cities.
@@Kosmos_er so...the eternal cities would have done the rite on Marika so she had no outward antagonism and could be picked by the golden order? And if so, wouldn't that actually rid marika of her antagonism like internally?
@@ruperthart5190 It gets rid of antagonizations towards the one performing the rite.
It woudn't change anything about marika's own feelings, but makes it so the fingers woudn't mind choosing her.
Marika became a god fully intending the shatter the system from the inside.
@@Kosmos_er oh I see, it's manipulating the fingers, thanks for clarifying
@@Kosmos_er but that only makes sense if either the dew works on the greater will(which is hard to believe) or the greater will is out of the picture(more likely)
This is a reply I made to someone who had commented on the video and figured I'd throw it in as a regular comment (Not trying to discredit or dismiss Kosmos or there awesome emancipation theory, and maybe this could help add to it):
I think Hawkshaw has the theory that Melina is a sort of offshoot of Ranni, in the same way that Millicent is an offshoot of Melania. And the idea that they are a part of Ranni's/Melania's whole being or personality removed from there whole, and seemingly their own person. And maybe Radagon is similar, only for one reason or another, they still occupy the same body. Perhaps it's Marikas doing and she intentionally took Melania from Ranni (Melania being the essence that possibly schemed with Marika, or the embodiment of the memories of such) or perhaps the doing of the greater will (Radagon is seemingly trying to repair the Elden Ring and perhaps is the part of Marika that wishes to remain loyal). And Saint Trina may similarly be an offshoot of Miquella. I might be wrong, but it seems to be a phenomenon only present in Empyreans. Also, Ranni burnt her body and Melina has burns and doesn't understand why. Which supports the idea of her being a part of Ranni. It might also be that Ranni is unknowingly being manipulated by Marika. Sorry for the book length reply, lol.
Very much looking forward to the argument as to how/why the endings fit into Marika's desires. The default ending certainly doesn't feel like Marika is free or the Greater Will defeated/punished.
I love you for using Shadow of the Colossus OST
I've always found the "Ranni and Marika were co-conspirators" theory hard to believe, because Marika and Ranni were so fundamentally opposed. Marika (as Radagon) destroyed Ranni's mother and her kingdom. Seeing how violently protective Ranni is of Rennala, I can't ever see her working with the person who ruined her life. Ranni and Marika co-conspiring with each other would only make sense if Marika changed her mind about the GW at some point between the Liurnian Wars and the Shattering (and even then, that'd be a big stretch). But more importantly, if Marika really was a closet moon pagan the whole time, why wouldn't she have teamed up with Liurnia in its prime against the Greater Will? That seems like a much smarter plan than the whole shattering thing. Rennala's Liurnia was the ultimate shrine to the moon outer god, and Marika destroyed it. I think that's the biggest hole in your theory.
You simply can't oppose the greater will through the might of civilization. Even with the support of a fate-guiding moon outer god, you only have to think back of the eternals and their now destroyed black moon who was the guide of countless stars.
As for ranni being willing to cooperate with Marika in spite of what happened with rennala, I don't think it's out of character for ranni. After all her whole philosophy is actually very much in line with Marika's, as in the end justifies the means. And her explicitly expressing the grim path she has to walk to achieve her goal "betray everything".
Ultimately it's subjective perception of the character without direct references in game, but to me ranni would do it.
@@Kosmos_er So, let's try to make Marika's plan make sense by working backwards. She knows that destroying the Elden Ring means destroying herself, so she needs a moon-worshipping Empyrean to lead the age of stars for after she sacrifices herself. So that's why she created Radagon and then married and divorced Rennala, so she could "legally" adopt Ranni as her stepdaughter.
She knows that Ranni can only defeat Radagon and the Elden Beast with the Tarnished, so that's why she created the Tarnished (+Melina) and did the whole thing with Godfrey. But then why did she pump out all of those other children? As fodder for the Tarnished to get strong enough to beat the Elden Beast? Were they just trial-and-error attempts at making an Empyrean? Then why did she pump out Miquella and Malenia (and possibly Messmer) afterwards? Insurance?
Why did she wage so many wars and commit so many genocides (Fire Giants, Godskin, Albinarics, Those Who Live in Death, Traveling Merchants) in the name of the Greater Will/Golden Order? To gain its trust while she stalled for her Ranni + Tarnished plans to unfold? I think there's a lot of fat in Marika's plan.
@@snowblind9551 first let me start of by saying you got a point in general, there is a lot of fat in Marika plan but I wanna try to address some of the examples you gave and then add my own.
The issue of Marika's children is interesting, some like the carian children can be explained as her needing to produce a ranni, considering she is the youngest of those we know about (based on the JP) marigon might have dipped after she felt her job was done with rennala.
But others like the golden lineage might have to do with the expectations of her producing heirs. After all the whole elden system seems to be based on the god taking a consort. But the case of miquella might be different, as the potential former master of torrent, it would imply he was definitely involved into the marika-melina-ranni squad, and has as such a role to play.
Masmer is a whole can of worms, he also seems to have had a specific purpose for Marika but was later ditched when that was done (and he might be salty about it, which is another parallel between him and rykard). But there is also the question of his origins and him potentially being the child of the previous god with Marika (radagon). But like miquella we don't have to wait too long to get more context.
So ultimately you have the useful children and those made along the way, or made as a formality. Which brings me to the night of knives. It's virtually impossible to be sure of the point of that night from Marika's perspective, but one might be the trimmings of the fat... Leaving only those with an active role to play and the others whose only purpose is to stalemate each other.
As for the genocides you mentioned only the fire giant one can be directly assigned to Marika, and that had the clear goal of safe guarding against their fire, and just generally subjugating the lands between. The others were basically the golden order or fundamentalists doing their thing, there is hardly anything in game we know was decreed by Marika herself, and those cases don't extend beyond the initial conquest. Hell the case of the merchants might even post date the shattering, since that's when supposedly frenzy started to appear.
Even tho I'm given justifications to the things to listed, I do agree there is a lot of fat. And a lot of it we just don't have enough info to answer the "why" of it.
After all the golden order probably lasted millennias, why was it only now time to shatter the ring? Why not sooner? Why the erdtree exists at all? Why the golden order specifically? Why the night of knives etc...
I have some ideas for some of these questions but ultimately not all, here is hoping the DLC adds crumbs for ua
@@Kosmos_er I just thought of another thing. If Marika's intentions remained static for the entirety of her reign, then that makes Radagon harder to explain. The general consensus for Radagon is that he and Marika WERE one in the same at some point, but eventually their wills diverged between loyalism vs. rebellion towards the Greater Will, culminating with the Shattering. How would Radagon remain loyal to the Greater Will, if Marika's intent to betray it likely predates his creation? Is Radagon like a sleeper agent installed in Marika by the Greater Will or something?
@@snowblind9551 to me radagon's will was unique to himself and independant from Marika from the moment he came into being.
He was largely seeking his own identity and path during his life while being under Marika's control.
No idea how much of Marika's plan he was aware of before the shattering if at all.
For context, I think radagon was created by Marika as a copy of herself.
I HEAR THAT DIVINITY OS2 SOUNDTRACK ❤❤
I call this one the Marika’s S-cide Theory, which expands even more to the idea that she herself, was the GEQ.. A holder of death before she was convinced to become eternal. It wouldn’t be the first time a mother would abandon her children with it?
I wish we are not so infantalized that even typing out suicide is taboo. Newsflash. Of course the topic is uncomfortable. It comes with the territory. There is a different between being mindful and sensitive and infantalization and diluting the topic at hand.
Your thoughts on this topic are definitely interesting, and I've been suspecting for a while that Marika [or Radagon] had the vision of the tree burning- though, my ideas about the story come out differently from what you're eluding to here. Either way, the forbidden vision definitely seems like it ties in somewhere.
great video! where is the music that starts at 24:30 from?
I kinda feel like marika never called radagon to be her consort, but that he kinda forced himself into royalty by having the upper hand on her in some way and threatening marika. And i also believe that radagon and marika weren’t always one person, but rather they merged together (probably after the shattering), maybe the greater will even merged them, so radagon‘s order can keep marika‘s rebelliousness in check. (In this case it also could‘ve been the greater will, not marika, who called radagon to the erdtree)
its possible that it was her plan, if a god needs to die then she just needs to make someone else the god, if only marika can be god then just make someone else into marika
Thanks for the HDR!
I've always assumed that line by Marika about making something of yourself or become sacrifices was talking about us killing them, and on that note I find it notable that Ranni and Miquella are unkillable by us.
Renalla isn't a demigod so we shouldn't count her for being unkillable
This video was mind-blowing and made me think - what if the commonly thought timeline of the sinking of the Eternal Cities is also wrong?
What if the Eternal Cities were above ground until after Goldwyn was murdered and the Shattering War broke out? We know that this is at least true for the Unnamed Eternal City that occupied the area near the main entrance to Leyndell (which is now a giant chasm in-game), as we see this entrance being assailed in the trailer cinematic’s depiction of the First Defense of Leyndell.
Your video has made me think that in fact the sinking of the Eternal Cities took place much later in the timeline, after the Shattering and perhaps around the time that Marika herself was imprisoned.
I can't believe it's already been 69 weeks!
i wonder how plasticbolsax and the chaos flame fits into all dis
you mean flaciddudsex ?
She said she wanted to increase grace,find out how to do the right thing basically as she started seeing what she had done was her own mess,and she needs us to go to the shadow lands after brandishing the ring to stop messmer who has gone insane.Pulling death from the ring caused the lands of shadow or something to do with it.
man, that shadow of the erdtree trailer at the game awards was fire ;)
💀
I was wondering if you had any idea what the deal is with the Jesus imagery marika seems to be drawing from?
As a Christian there’s a few things that just stick out to me.
Depictions of marika show her with her hands stretched out, and while at first I thought it was just a pose they thought was cool, when you actually get to her boss room, it’s very obvious she’s been crucified and stabbed in her side.
This is very similar to the crucifixion imagery of Jesus, who is also crucified and stabbed in his side.
It’s also curious then that in hind sight it’s “grace” that guides the tarnished, when all forms of Christianity recognize the grace of God is a very important concept.
The churches dedicated to Marika around the map also start to become curious given these little tidbits.
I doubt these are all coincidence however I cannot for the life of me figure out HOW the Christian imagery is being used, and how it connects to everything else.
The end of the video with Marisa loyalty to a people “crushed” by the Golden Order is kinda ironic considering what happened to the The Great Caravan.😢
You mentioned how Marika has no problem sacrificing her children for her goals.. I have been watching a number of lore videos lately and have noticed that Marika gets around. She may have been popping out babies for the sole purpose of sacrificing the divines. Even changing herself into Radagon to conceive with Renala.. If this was all intentionally to serve an elaborate purpose, perhaps she needed a more chimeric bloodline to ascend and oppose the Greater Will? Cross referencing this video with the one that had a translated Japanese theory of our tarnished being a demigod
just adding to my confused thoughts, the game makes mention of Marika stripping us of grace and sending us to die in the land of shadows until she sees the right moment. Could this have been to hide us from the Greater Will? The race selection says Numen are rarely born. In the Shadow trailer, the ovary looking creature could be in reference to a curse on Numen wombs, which is why she's slootin with other races in a 'spray and pray' effort to get revenge on the Greater Will for this curse.. sorry if anybody has trouble reading that, I'm too busy to articulate
HDR is not working on this video. Just a sidenote. Quality is still amazing though!
Sadly youtube is still processing it, eventually it should be available
@@Kosmos_er Perfect, it works now!
Maybe it's because I was playing this alongside watching Succession but Marika gives off Logan vibes to me.
Logan was ok with sacrificing his son Kendall and even mentioned to Romulus that "there is going to be a night of the long knives". Which for anyone who knows what that's about, strength lens the theory of Marika being involved in the assassin's plot. Why the assassins would turn on Ranni and Iji I don't quite understand tho...
I honestly lean towards their death as being part of a "leave no loose ends" part of the plan. It's very harsh but it seems iji at the very least was aware that was gonna happen, and ranni kinda laments that when you talk to her before the baleful shadow
PART 2 PLZ ❤
I think the question we need too ask is “what or who does Marika love” before lore deep dives and still some general consensus, it’s thought she shattered it out of grief that Godwyn was killed, but he was the greatest champion the golden order had so he had too be the first to go(Marika being the biggest figure in the plot that took him) so she held no maternal love for Godwyn neither do I believe for any of her kids(as shown by the echo) and oddly enough I feel she either respects, admires or at least has some affection for Ranni as she actively works against everything Marika should stand for yet is Ranni’s(except for Renala) biggest supporter from the shadows. Just some thoughts
you tell the story very well. thank you
Any thoughts on the Lux ruins connections to the Nox and Marika?
I saw some weird stuff there once but never connected them to the things you mentioned
Great video. You have beautiful scripts 👏
I approve of this theory. Two thumbs up from this guy
I just wonder why UA-camrs keep saying merika shattered the Elden ring and that caused the shattering war. The beginning of the game specifically says the demigods went mad with the shards of the Elden ring causing the shattering so doesn’t that mean it was destroyed afterwards?
I thoroughly believe that Marika wants to be free from the control of the Greater Will. Although not by her directly, we hear from Ranni, how fearsome and controlling the Great God can be - since she stripped off her own body to rid herself of his envoys, the Two Fingers, to 'not be controlled by that thing'. I really missed the Scarseal/Soreseal Talismans from Radagon and Marika in this video - they are maybe the most direct (though still very indirect) clues on what Marika/Radagons relationship with the Greater Will was - and thus a sprouting point of her motivation to rebel against it or emancipate herself. The Scarseals, engraved into eyes, 'represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods' and the Soreseals, to which they likely evolve, color this solemn duty as 'weighing upon the one beholden; not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance'.
Ranni might have surmised as much as Marika experienced by first hand, when she was chosen as an Empyrean. However a holy duty of a chosen one to a god might be - if there is no deliverance from it, it is just like a curse. If that is a short glimpe into Marikas perspective on her own duty as a god of the Greater Will, bound by the Elden Beast, it would become quite understandable why she would go to such lengths as sending her first husband on a crusade, enslaving master craftsmen and former enemies as guards, leashing her Shadowbound Beast onto a deformity of the Elden Ring, shattering said Elden Ring and maybe even turning her children against each other and birthing a Kindling Maiden from the remains of an old god she once had defeated.
What I just can't fit into that theory are the words of Gideon Ofnir, when we encounter him as an adversary in the Erdtree Sanctuary. He seems to believe that Marikas Plan does not have Telos but strives towards a form of Regression or new state of Perpetuity: a 'continued struggle, unto eternity'. Are those the words of a fool, some scholar who found some clues and grossly misunderstood them? Or is there even more to Marikas Plan he hints at?
i love when i play elden ring and see the ghost of the fat man armor i always laugh, i like seeing the pumpkin heads too lol
As for what I said "Tarnished the dead you yet lived" what if the grace we tarnished had was NONE Maria's grace but from one that somehow related to death, yet is long before gone?
What if Radagon was made in the same way that the player character was supposed to take the mimic tear inside them/make a copy in the cut content…
In a way, Marika's fate, is what would happen to Ranni if she hadn't discarded her flesh.
Both Ranni and Melina seem to be able to circunvent the greater will's power after becoming "bodiless"
This means that going full chaos and showing middle finger to Melina is the most based thing you can do.
gold mask also shuts her out of controlling the elden ring
Damn this was a more structured way of my own point of view. Believe that the fruit of her efforts to forge a new God of her own flesh is everywhere in the Lands Between. Golden order just the latest way of trying to achieve her goal.
Maybe you're getting there or going someplace else, but I've a suspicion that Marika like Sellen after her have switched her essense to another body. And just like with Malenia and her sense of Pride in Millicent, Ranni is a sense of Marika that in the end got chosen to be "her" after attempts with Godwyn, Miquella and Radagon.
Looking forward to more clues in Shadow of the Erdtree
The Code is Cracked! Travel to Maliketh, The Black Blade Site of Grace after you defeat him and aquire The Rune of Death. The Elden Ring with the statues and the floor decor is the Decoder for Weapons, Poses, Attire, Everything! Try wearing Gideon Offnirs attire, walk up to the candles, turn your back to the Elden Ring and start lining everything up! It has worked with everything I've tried so far. Also Marika is more than likely the witch that Sellen's Mask is based off of. The statue looks like a younger witch, the mask is a more mature witch. Happy Holidays and Happy Lore Hunting!
If Marika really did originate from the Eternal Cities and always planned to hijake and destroy the Greater Will's order, than his real mistake was not killing all the Numen instead of imprisoning them underground. Come to think of it, it's a surprisingly tame and merciful punishment for dealing with troublemakers that threaten his order, since he really just gave the Numen a different realm to inhabite and rule over. Marika sure loved to resort to violence for solving her problems though, and her hatred of the Greater Will is probably the reason why the Omen and Misbegotten were mistreated. She's definitely evil for the mistreatment part to be real.
Interesting theory, lends more depth to Marikas motive 👍
is the greater will that shortsighted that it would choose Marika to be vessel when in the end she would shatter the elden ring?
Why do different characters - who claim to be receiving guidance directly or indirectly from the greater will and through the fingers etc - seem to have opposing goals? why are we sent to the erdtree only to be fought when we get there?
the fingers were simply not aware of the full scope of the situation inside the erdtree, we are fought there because we are meant to kill marika/radagon/elden beast... which radagon/EB do not want
@@Kosmos_er ah, ty. so why are the two fingers lagging on this info? at the start of the game they are still receiving guidance - yet send us down the path to the erdtree?
and if finger reader is the one who informs us of markias imprisonment - how do the two fingers not know? i guess they could have heard from somewhere else, but just seems unlikely the fingers wouldnt know this. unless you are referring to more by the “full scope” of the situation. but still not sure i understand why EB would want to protect Marika. certainly it can transplant the order to someone/somewhere else
@@CyberSerumYT The fingers are heavily implied to be broken after the shattering by multiple characters, they just don't seem to ahve a full grasp of the situation aside from knowing marika is inside the tree.
EB would be protecting marika only so far as it is protecting itself, and marika wants to be killed for the same reasons, to kill the EB
@@Kosmos_er just realizing how shit the two fingers are at selecting empyreans. every one i can think of has ultimately gone against it
You made a lot of connections I hadn’t heard before, and overall I think the theory is solid.
Do you have any idea why the Black Knives seem to oppose Ranni in the present, though? Their attacks on Ranni’s people (Iji, Blaidd, probably Selivus too) seem to imply that the Black Knives (and perhaps the Nox as a whole) believe they were wronged by Ranni’s plot, as if they weren’t privy to the entire plan and feel betrayed. Not to mention that we need to steal the fingerslayer blade for Ranni; if the groups were still working together, they simply would’ve given it to Ranni freely.
Currently I lean more towards ranni having iji and blaid killed as a necessary part of her plan to cut loose ends.
She mentions how she feels about their unconditional support despite the fact they know she "must betray everything ". And she doesn't seem to care to do anything about blaid going mad under her window, while blaid himself screams that he hasn't betrayed her while fighting the assassins.
Even iji knows he will be dying soon when you talk to him, and used to leave a will to express his remorse for imprisoning blaid.
As for why they didn't hand her the FSB, I honestly don't know. For some reason nokron seems to be literally inaccessible, not sure how that's supposed to work.
Ranni explicitly says in the trailer that Marika shattered the ring out of grief for Godwyn. So it's not just a fan theory.
Ranni explicitly says, that godwyn's death "drove Marika to the brink" that is all.
She also proceeds to explicitly say "the elden ring was shattered, but by whom, and why?"
So no she doesn't say Marika shattered the ring because of godwyn, in fact she does the opposite and poses the question
But even with her plans, isn't the Higher Will still wining in the end ?
i'll get into it in time, but i think marika was successful in 5/6 endings
the greater will is probably already absent since farum azula fell long before any of that
@@Kosmos_er I'm curious on which on did she not succeed on
due to new content i think miquela charmed marika to create the aage of compassion and destroy the golden order and that is why radhan refused to fulfil the vow and stopped his fate by stopping stars. I think miquella controlled his mother and made her destroy the elden ring in order for him to reach his goals.