-35F for 8 days...unheated tent...NorthFace bag on Ensolite pad ...climbing Mt.Washington. 104 mph wind at the summit. Those were the days...Tuckerman’s Ravine...death wish?
I own or have tested the Exped Downmat UL, Nemo Tensor Alpine and Tensor Insulated, Sea to Summit Etherlight XT, and Thermarest XTherm (all in long-wide) so I can give you points of comparison with the pads in this review. Of the pads he tested that I own, I concur with all of his findings. Measured pad specs in LW (77"x25"): Downmat UL 11.5"x5.5", 34.1oz, R-7.2; XTherm 10x4.5", 27.7oz, R-6.9; Tensor Alpine 9.5"x3.5", 26.2oz, R-4.8; Etherlight XT 10"x5" (12"L with the pump sack at the end), 25.5 oz, R-3.2. The Etherlight is by far the most comfortable (especially for side sleepers), Tensor is second (the Alpine feels the same), Downmat UL is third, and XTherm fourth (though still relatively comfortable even at only 2.5" thick). As a side-sleeper I have to air-down the pads enough to conform but still keep me off the ground. They all loose considerable R-value when you do this, except for (amazingly) the XTHERM. The Downmat UL has a higher R-value of 7.2, but performs second in this regard because it only uses down for insulation, and is equivalent to having an uncompressed down bag underneath you, so it's R-value will be relative to it's thickness. The Tensor and Tensor Alpine live up to their R-value only when fully inflated, but get very noticeable and uncomfortable cold spots under the hips and shoulder when you air-down (as the spots without foil get closer to the ground and transfer more heat). I still feel these cold spots even with a Nemo Switchback R-2 closed cell foam pad underneath in anything below 30-35 degrees. I can comfortably use the Etherlight and Tensor down to these temps if I put the foam pad ON TOP of the air pad (don't ask me the thermodynamics of this, but it's a tried and true method). Below 30 deg I use the Downmat or XTherm, and anything below 15 deg I use them in combination with a foam pad (mainly to keep from dying if the air pad pops). Tensor and Alpine are both very quiet and are the most compact of these pads but the material is very thin. Love these pads for cool to warm weather but I've had two go flat on me, either from pinhole leaks or air leaking out of the valve. The valves can be somewhat annoying. It's second only to the Etherlight in speed and ease of inflation, but the valves can be hard to open and close, and sometimes the 'deflate' valve pops out when your'e trying to open the 'inflate/adjust' valve (they are nested) and dumps the whole pad, and the 'inflate/adjust' valve sometimes doesn't seal (leaks). The Longbow Alpine version may prove to be more robust though 9 oz heavier. Etherlight is the fastest and easiest to inflate and adjust. It's well made and uses thick enough materials not to be too concerned about punctures. Though not as quiet, compact, and light as the Tensor, for me the trade-off for comfort and reliability is worth it. This is my favorite pad by far for luxurious mild-weather backpacking. XTherm is my go-to pad for cold weather despite not being the most comfortable or quiet--simply because I have the most confidence in the warmth, materials, and valve (they are the most robust), it has the best weight to R-value ratio, and it's still more comfortable than 80% of the other backpacking pads out there. Yes, it's by far the loudest, but I don't really notice when I use it in cold temps because I'm in a thick bag wearing a beanie and I can't hear anything anyway. Your tent-mate however may be annoyed. Downmat UL would be my #1 cold weather choice if I were a quilt user. It has the most comfortable materials (almost fuzzy), is quick and easy to inflate and adjust, and though vertical baffles are not my favorite, is quite comfortable. Plus the raised side baffles help keep you on the pad. Downsides--it's the bulkiest, heaviest and has some users reviews reporting it popping in their tent and spraying feathers everywhere (I haven't experienced this myself--fingers crossed).
I have been rocking the klymit static v unisulated for years and I use it all 4 seasons. When it's going to be below 40 degrees I just lay my mylar emergency blanket (which I ALWAYS carry two of when I backpack anyways) underneath. It reflects a TON of heat. Turns a 50 dollar pad into a winter pad for a buck 😉
I would consider anything above freezing to be summer conditions. I experience below freezing overnight occasionally in August. I doubt your system would work down to negative temps. Obviously if you primarily backpack in a warm climate/environment, you can get away with less than if you backpack in a cold climate.
@briandoolittle3422 i regularly use this setup down to around 20ish degrees andstay toaty warm. Thats in a 0 degree bag, wearing merino wool, in a hammock setup (usually).
Do you still use klymit? I've been using the klymit v for about 3 years, It's a great pad, my favorite in fact, but be real. Anything below 5°c is a struggle.Every timee I bring it to higher elevations, I regret it. That's why I bought the xtherm.
First off, I like your scientific approach to this topic. It's very interesting. But, there's something you need to understand about how IR Cameras operate. They measure the thermal radiation being emitted from an object, but depends highly on the emissivity of the object (or the effectiveness of the object to emit radiation). Surfaces vary in emissivity from 1.0 (perfect blackbody) to 0.1 (shiny copper). The different surfaces of the sleeping pads may have been throwing off the temperatures being measured by the camera. A better test would have been to place a lightweight strip of fabric or even electrical tape (e~1.0; this is what thermographers use) across the surface of the pad and measure the temperature there. I also agree with the others that a common range or color template would have been a good idea, for comparison purposes. I'm looking forward to the next video. Thanks.
Also what can be added - contact has huge impact on thermal conductivity. Mats are going to conduct different, while are loaded. Some kind of additiona mass could be introduecd to compare results whith some preload. Also IR camera stuff above is important as hell. Values may vary a lot. BUT I like very much the approach. good way :).
Thanks. Couple remarks: First, the scaling is different for all pads on the temp map. So it gives a skewed image (When it looks more blue, it gives the impression that it's better, but that is not necessarily true). Second, I think the heat reflection is meant to bounce it back up, not down. So you should probably have put the pads upside down on the heater.
Nice testing method. Thanks! However... :-) The idea behind the Static V design is such that the v-shaped grooves are filled with the sleeping bag material when you lay on them. So that’s how they turn out a bit warmer than you would expect based on your test. It’s probably not an enormous difference but from experience I can say the mat is not far off from my insulated Exped down mat.
Interesting results. I did 10,000 miles around South America with the insulated static V (non-ultra lite). Camped up on the Bolivian Altiplano at over 4,000m. I actually found I was too warm more often then being too cold. I also found it very comfortable. I would have liked to see an Exped downmat added to the test list.
Good test. I tend to just bring a closed cell pad, put my regular pad on top and now I magically have an "insulated" pad. You don't have to go bankrupt buying dedicated winter gear to go backpacking in colder weather. Bring an extra blanket, double up your sleeping pads, wear a hat and some warm heavy socks to bed. And carry a few hand warmers to fire off inside your bag if your particular version of the McGyver "winter" bag isn't cutting it at 2AM.
I have a downmat 9 dlx (the old internal pump type), 10 years still going strong.. best pad ever. I just pack a lighter bag, which I'm able to do with the high R rating pad, to offset.
I'm still using a Therarest I bought thirty years ago. It's one of the original ones and at about 25mm. thick, it still does what I bought it for. At the time, it cost nearly £50, but it's certainly paid for itself since then.
THANK YOU! It's refreshing to see more than just opinions on sleeping pads or camping equipment in general. I'm currently looking at sleeping pads and dry bags and the number of verbose and qualitative videos in which people DON'T submerge the dry bags or use any standard to say which product is better is baffling. Thank you again!
Great video, being a side sleeper I've been trying to narrow down my selection of a lightweight pad for a thru-hike. I appreciate you demonstrating pack size, weight, inflation, thermal properties (with explanation), noise, and your subjective views on comfort. Really helped.
I'm a side sleeper as well. I have the Klymit Static V, both regular and insulated, and the Big Agnes insulated Q Core SLX (r-value about 3.5). (plus some non-inflated). For my purposes, the Q Core was the best balance between weight, warmth, and cushion for side sleeping. The baffles aren't as stationary, going lengthwise, but it's really thick overall. That said, I don't know if I'd thru hike with it over the insulated Klymit. There have been reports about being less durable.
Thank you for the very thorough review. It really helped me with my pad selection (I chose a S2S). I wish you kept the charts and packed size in the same order as the opening line up all the time. It would've been easier to keep track of which is which.
Bought the Nemo Tensor last year bc I am a side sleeper and it was great on the trips we got in on the AT during late Fall. Never felt cold from below, noise is almost nonexistent , and it was very comfortable. My young boys have the static v and it is just too noisy for me but works for them. Nice review. Thanks.
This was very throurough, so cool. I have a suggestion for a thing to try, which could put many an online debate to rest. I don't have a thermal camera or otherwise I'd do it myself. People are always arguing about how much space blankets/mylar/reflectix does or does not add. I think it could be really cool if you could film your pads with a sheet of that. I'd propose this stack: Control: 3D printer bed cloth to spread heat Sleeping pad (face down) black cover blanket (to get uniform temp readings) Test: 3D printer bed cloth to spread heat Sleeping pad (face down) Reflectix/mylar (shiney side down) black cover blanket (to get uniform temp readings) The argument is usually that the reflective foil can't work because the pad is touching it, while others insist that it adds meaningful warmth to their system nonetheless.
This is the best video on UA-cam for sleeping pad evaluation. Thanks so much! I have a Nemo Tensor wide pad. It's rated at R4.2. It's confortable, packs relatively small and is reasonably light. Also have a Big Agnes AXL mummy. It's only 20" at the widest point. My arms kept falling off and getting cold so I bought the Tensor in 25" width. My summer go-to pad is a knockoff of the Klymit V. It has a claimed R value of 2.2. Only 16 ounces and pretty comfortable for back sleeping. Price difference was about $100, and the quality difference is obvious. That said, I'm trying to lighten my load so when the weather/temps allow I go with the lighter pad. A tip; I use a silver mylar coated bubble wrap pad under my pad to increase R value. It's recycled packing material from Hello Fresh shipping container. (They no longer use it.) 2 ounces for a 22 x 60 inch piece.
Thank you for this video! Great comparison and info. I often use an emergency space blanket between the tent floor and the sleep pad as extra insulation. It'd be really interesting to see how a cheap £2 option like this coupled with one of the lesser insulated pads on test brings the r value or heat loss test results nearer the likes of the thermorest 6.9 👍
The UK RAF Mountain Rescue unit did a comparison between a so-called "space blanket" and an ordinary plastic bag. The bag was better! I totally disagree with Gear Test's assertion that we lose 65% of heat through radiation. We lose most through convection and conduction, so a reflective layer has little effect!
@@migranthawker2952 That's why I always carry an extra large bin liner in my backpack to help prevent low temperatures from getting the upper hand and as an emergency bivvy, tarp, etc. Radiation plays the major part in loss of body heat, as, when standing, we lose almost half our body heat through our heads, but, as you say, conduction isn't exactly innocent, as the cold ground leeches heat from us, seeking an ambient balance. Even simple respiration plays a part.
I don't have and don't like the Klimit mats, but there's a catch with the V shapes that they use, as someone with a sleeping bag will have some of the sleeping bag insulation fluff up and fill the grooves between the V shapes, thus adding some warmth to your back.
Been using the insulated static v for years, never had the squeaky sound 🤷♂️ It also works better with a bag and not a quilt as it lets the insulation of the bag to puff up and do its thing.
I've been using my REI AirRail 1.5 for a few years now and it's pretty great. It has a claimed R-value of 4.2 and the inflated "rail" extensions on both sides of the pad (hence the name) does manage to keep me on the pad on most nights.
Thanks for this video. I would be very interested for you to do a video on closed-cell foam pads and self-inflating pads. I am a more budget minded hiker/backpacker and would love to see how more budget friendly pads (i.e. closed-cell/self-inflating, etc.) would do with these tests. Thanks again for all you do. Great video.
One thing to keep in mind regarding this test is that it doesn't take into account the insulating properties of the sleeping bag on top of the pad. Sleeping bags insulate best when the insulation if fully lofted. When the insulation is compressed (by your body lying on top of it) it loses most of its insulating value. The deep grooves of the Klymit pads are designed to allow the sleeping bag to loft and provide insulation to the body. Most of the other pads only have shallow depressions which limit the lofting (and therefore the insulation) of the sleeping bag.
I'd for sure want to see this kind of video comparison done with the self-inflating sleeping pads. I'm curious to see what the differences will be; I have a sneaking suspicion there's a possibility of more thermal transfer (due to the interior expanding filler). Regardless, I'll keep an eye out if you get a video posted for the self-inflating genre of sleeping pads. Cheers
Great review but one point of contention. The hottest spot measured on a pad isn't particularly relevant. A tiny hot spot isn't as bad as a very large area that's a bit cooler as the large area will have a far greater total heat transfer.
Not necessarily. The water line for our clothes washer runs through our garage space. Its insulated but if our garage gets below freezing (rare) then the hot water line freezes up but the cold water line does not. It’s called the Mpemba effect. Since the human body is mostly water a small badly insulated area could see similarly larger amounts of heat transfer than the average insulation amount would lead to. Not the same mechanism necessarily, but if it happens with water your skin is 2/3 warm water. That’s a lot of heat transfer material.
Appreciate the extensive testing as always Paul! You have one of the most intricate and detailed outdoor channels I've found, both in content value as well as production value. Amazing research and work! Keep it up!
@@GearTestTV NOT TRUE at least not for my mummy version. Try my second pad after blaming it on my not sleeping - the 4" Wide insulated Double Z from Big Agnes. You're going down the rabbit hole on that one. Its my loner LOL
Would be really interested to see a comparison with the new tech inflatable pads with “old school” closed cell mats like the Finnish Savotta military issue and other such similar mats. Many thanks for your thoughtful and very helpful reviews!
Great content! Love that you went through all heat loss mechanisms. How you use a pad makes a big difference as well, especially on snow. I camp in floorless tents in the winter. I dig a pocket for my inflatable in the snow (tensor insulated mummy) then overlay a 1cm smooth evazote pad on top (failsafe winter contingency, and improved comfort, really, bed-like). Total r-value 4.9 for the system. Snow often has a high air content, even as it compacts you don't need crazy high r-values to be comfy. I've been a couple times at -20 to -30 and was totally fine. Biggest issue at those temps is breathing comfort. Layering is a great concept for sleep systems as well, pads and bags. I do everything with a combination of a 0 degree bag, a 32 degree quilt and the two pads above.
I have the neoair x-term. I sleep very well. I sleep on the side. I think noise reduce over time and use. It is a little bit too warm in the mornings in a tent in the summertime when the sun is shining on the tent, but otherwise I love it. It is the best sleeping pad I have had so far.
I have to give a plug for the Klymit V UL insulated. It's been my go to for winter camping. One of the things the this video (great video, BTW) doesn't take into account is that the ridges are designed to create spaces for the loft from your sleeping bag to fill. Keeping the bag "lofty" increases its overall insulating properties. When a bag is compressed against a flat surface, it will loss some of it's insulating power. Thus, by creating ridges, you lose some insulation from the pad, but gain it back with your bag.
The coldest I've gone is minus 7 Fahrenheit. My feet were icicles. Comfortably, I can get down to the twenties, with the caveat that I use an Outdoor Reasearch Alpine Bivy in winter, which is incredibly warm by itself.@@danos5181
What a heartbreak!!!! The best insulated sleeping pad is also the one that will keep you up at night, because you think someone is eating sunchips! DANG. Thank you so much for this incredible video! Very thorough testing, with all the necessary details and no fuzz! Subbed :)
Thanks for this video. I live in Canada and I try to avoid camping in the colder months, but it is the sound that they make that I can never find out until I buy one. Really appreciated you covering that aspect of these designs. Wish they had a noise rating like they do for thermal ratings.
I'd love to see you do a test with multiple mats, (close cell with a air mattress, maybe reflectix and an air mattress, etc). I would be curious to see which one is better next to the ground and/or which ones would be better next to your body. You have a great channel keep up the good work 👍👍
@@jackdundon2261 two lashed together are perfect for me and the Mrs. However, I'm average sized. When alone (and maybe in a hammock), I lay another small old mat under like a + cross, just for my elbows.
Loved your video and your methodology. I have 2 of the Static V Insulated Pads (different than the ones you are showing) and one has the older valve like you have and the second one I have is with their new valve system. The reason I have 2, is because my pad with the older valve made the same noise as yours and it sounded like air is escaping so I contacted Klymit and they sent me a new one with their new valve system and let me keep the old one and sure enough there is no noise on the new one. I think the air was only escaping within the pad and not out of it, but my point is it could be because of the old valve even though it doesn't sound like the sound is coming from it, but more importantly, Klymit was great to deal with and had amazing customer support. Thanks again for the great video.
Great vid. A suggestion... Mount the thermal camera on a tripod and take the average temperature across the imaged section, assuming the camera allows for a fixed scale
Hello... Very interesting and well-done video... I'm retired and I hike a lot with at least a 7 to 10 days trek per month...To me, after all of these years, I only use now 2 to 3 superposed foam mattresses. The real problem of all of these 'inflatables' is that at a certain point it will be flat because of a hole, a melted side that leaks, the valve, patch that don't glue enough, long and hard to inflate especially on high altitude etc... I spent a lot of money in all of those, including military ones... My foam mattresses are big, make a big roll over my backpack, but they are light enough, insulated enough even in frigid temps, i'm all set in seconds, they make no noise at all, I saved a lot of crazy money and it works good nights after nights after nights. I also saved a lot of nerves spent insulting my 'deflated' inflatable mattress in the middle of the night at the top of a mountain during a freezing night, one after the others... Like that, I enjoy much better backpacking without problems...And I sleep well!
hands down the most comfortable for me is the Nemo, it tried several of the others including sea to summit and it was a no go. The tensors I beams are just far and away the most supportive and comfortable of the bunch. Im pretty sure the xtherm has BOTH the reflective materiel as well as a layer of synthetic fill which is why its a 6 r value and also retains the heat as you showed. Its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison there with that pad vs the others as they arent designed to do the same thing. A much closer comparison would be the nemo alpine version of the tensor. Great work on this, and great examples!
I haven't reached out to Thermarest to confirm this, but their website listing for the Xtherm emphasizes that their design does not have the same issues as down or synthetic insulation, so my understanding is that the Xtherm does not contain any lofting insulation. The Tensor is great though! Haven't had a chance to get my hands on the Tensor Alpnine, but I'd love to compare it at some point.
Curious, what didn’t you like about the StS Ether? I bought a couple of Tensor Insulated for a Colorado trip for my gf and I and we absolutely hated them. Micro leaks on one pad too, which made it even worse. Numb shoulders and hips throughout the nights. I’m a side sleeper so the thought of a 4” pad sounds truly amazing. I had a Exped before that which was fine at 3.5” and another Nemo double wide at 3.5” which was so awesome but so darn heavy. Thing was a tank.
I tried to do something similar with 3 pads and a laser thermometer.... i was less successful in getting usable data. The R values mostly matched with relative performance! You killed it here with this video though!! Super informative and well done!!
Probably the best video I've seen about inflatable sleeping pads, great test. Would've loved to see Exped tested too. I can confirm that with my experience, the old temperature ratings (that still some stores list) were often a bit too good to be true.
there doesn't seem to be much love for them, unless you in Vanlife or something. But I love my pad, which is good when you sleeping round your Mum's office on it for the last month
im so happy i purchased a nemo tensor for my first hike mat, done so much research, knew it was hefty at first but here we all are almost a year since purchase and im not dissapointed and all i see and hear on yt now is nemo tensor is comfy or another youtuber posting it tied with this etc. nemo for life....yall think 2-300 for a pad is deer, i got two nemo chairs at 600 for both just have that itch for expensive good items now cause i know its going to last and be comfy etc
Normally when in a sleepingbag, the down underneath it Will be compressed and not insulate you because you are laying on it. A point to make about the Klymit Stativ V is that the V shaped rooms between the baffles allows your sleepingbag to puff Up and not be compressed by your bodyweight and thereby insulating you even while you are laying on it. A test of that would be interesting, because that is why there is No insulation in the wholes :)
I have a Klymit Static V lite insulated pad and I have always justified it this way. HOWEVER, I am not sure that it really works this way in practice. Although the gaps can fill in with the down from underneath the sleeping bag (though not fully since they are still being compresses by the weight of the sleeper), they cannot fill the gap underneath the pad. NOR do these do anything for the primary loss of heat through radiation. If Klymit could address these issues in future versions of the pads, they I really think they could have a winning design.
Like you, I have the same two Klymit pads. They were my first ones and worked for what I was doing. Over time, I have developed into a side sleeper and have found the Paria Recharge XL (76 x 23 x 4, 4.7R, 26oz, $85) works best for me. I cannot sleep on a firm pad and the 4 inch thickness allows me to have a softer pad without hips or shoulders hitting the ground. I have used it in the mid 20s with my SD 20 degree backcountry bed and stayed plenty warm, actually a little too hot at one point. I wish I would have known about that pad before buying the other 4 I have in my basement. It's amazing how much money we waste on gear over time.
The Recharge XL is the most comfortable pad I have ever purchased. The Nemo Tensor Alpine was a close second, but its 20d face fabric is fragile and pops easilly. The Recharge is songood that I also bought the DW version for when my wife and I car camp. For winter I found the ReCharge's R value however to be a bit lacking since I sleep cold. For winter camping the best pad I have ever used is the Exped Downmat XP and UL. This is fantastic as they have r values of 7 and 8 and unlike the Thermarest Xtherm it is a slow heat gain, rather than the raging heat from the Xtherm. The Expeds also have a superior valve system and are 3.5" tall; way better than 2.5 on the Xtherm. Thermarest is super noisy and I hate the chip sound. Returned that immediately to Moosejaw after inflating one time.
Just a note on the Klymit UL SL...I have one and used it on a trip in Utah's High Uintas Wilderness in late August where we got a night that made our camp really frosty and froze our water bottles. So nighttime temps easily got down to 25-30 Fahrenheit which was roughly confirmed by a keychain thermometer I carry. I didn't feel a chill at all sleeping on it. Why not? Because my 20 degree down bag lofted enough under me to fill those gaps where those welded seams are between the baffles on the pad. It is actually designed for that to happen. So...While the Klymit may not be a true 4.4 under the new standard, I think it could definitely be very close as shown by your test when used with a lofty sleeping BAG and so it certainly works well for 3 season use with such a bag and even 4 seasons in most southern regions of the country. I would NOT use it with a QUILT, as your test shows that would be risky in colder temps. I do also slip my sit pad under the pelvic area to protect my hip in case I do end up bottoming out with it when using it but haven't had it really happen yet. I also use a trash bag inflator I made for it to minimize warm moist breath going into it. Oh, and I also get the occasional squeak with it. Was worse out of the box, but very infrequent now and doesn't seem to occur when it's all settled out. It's a fine pad for those who don't have the budget for the more premium brands and models. That all said, I did pick up a previous model of the standard NeoAir on clearance last year and have been favoring that for its additional weight savings. Also just got my wife the women's version of the insulated Ether Light because she hasn't been a fan of the horizontal baffles of the old XTherm she'd been using. That Ether really is plush and comfy! Now...I would love to lay on a Nemo sometime to see how it compares in comfort.
Cool yeah for sure! I slept on an uninsulated air pad for many trips. Probably lost 15 deg., could not use my bag as a quilt, but now with an insulated pad (R3+) I can.
That's a great use for the 3d printer bed! Definitely wouldn't have thought of that.
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Thank you for the information. I am happy with my Xtherm, bought it in 2018 and still using. It has a good size. Whenever I do an international flight I put in my bag just in case.
I purchased a Finnish FDF sleeping pad that is made of a foam rollup and glad I did!... Durable and at the same time not too heavy to carry while keeping you dryer and not as cold with your back towards the ground!... But to each their own! I don't like blow-up pads because of the fear with how long they last!
Also, I am glad you mentioned ground temp vs air temp. I used my BA AXL (uninsulated) over the summer in the Sierras, and it got cool in the evening, 30s-low 40s, but had no issues staying cold. Fast forward to December, I hiked out i. A local area where the temps have been hovering around 30s-40s all day, and low 30s at night. The ground was colder, and I was doing crunches all night to stay warm.
I have three ther-a-rest sleeping pads (uber light, xlite, xtherm) I started with just the xlite but got the xtherm for winter and the uberlite for summer backpacking. I found that I use the uberlite most of the year. If the night temps are going to drop I found that I need the xtherm (that cold really sleeps through!). I rarely use my xlite anymore. My xtherm has kept me warm in below freezing & when snow is falling (and I get cold easily). Never have regretted the high cost. I don’t have a problem rolling off it (even sleeping with my dog) as my sleeping quilt & sleeping bag both have clips so they stay on top of my sleeping pad.
You should do a video comparing these to the thermal properties of a $10 pool float from Walmart. Might give us an idea if these sleeping pad vendors are laughing their butts off at us paying $150+ for a glorified pool float.
To be fair, that pool float is going to weigh a LOT more than these as it is made of much thicker cheap material. That said, I think the Xtherm in this test really shows that a higher R value pad really does make a big difference.
I use an older thermarest inflatable , silent and saving my hip n back big time . Sleeping bag is some old thing I got at goodwill . I have no heat in my sleeping box and I stay hella warm and no pain
Im in my last year of chemical engineering and couldn’t agree more with you about that heat transfer class comment lol... You couldn’t have explained it any better. Love the vids.
Well done. Very comprehensive for my needs. I was considering purchasing one of the Nemo pads, but now know I would be unhappy. I am not for the noise these pads create, and have decided to forgo weight concerns for the quite foam style pads. Thank you 🙏🏼.
My favorite pad so far is the nemo Cosmo 25L insulated. It has a built in footpump has a R value of 3.5. Weighs 2 lbs 4 oz or the uninsulated at 1 lb 13 oz .they are 3.5 inches thick.
It would be interesting to see the heat loss results of actually lieing on the pads. Even both on your back and on your side. This could be measured by putting the pad on a cold ground and lieing on it for a while, then removing the mat and pointing the thermal camera on the ground to see how much heat got through. As a side sleeper it would be interesting to see which pad handles pointy hips and shoulders the best regarding heat loss. Also, I think the Klymit construction works better if you actually lie on it, since your weight might squeeze those baffles together to get rid of the cold uninsulated spot in between. Edit: Subscribed. Love this kind of analytical approach to hiking gear. This material unlocks the next level of my gear research addiction lol
Great rundown!! I feel like the cold spots in the Klymit pads are mitigated with sleeping bag insulation filling the gaps. My son sleeps on our Klymit Insulated V, like the orange one in the vid, down to 30 degrees no problem. But he's in a Big Agnus 15 degree down bag. I think u might feel those cold spot if only using a top quilt, where no insulation would fill the gaps.
The ground is so big, it might just act like a thermal reservoir and not show much change in temperature at all. So the difference in ground temperature after the test might not be big enough to see between the pads, but certainly worth a shot. If you made an insulated plate, that would probably be better. Put a closed cell foam mat on the ground and a sheet of steel over it. Let the steel reach equilibrium temperature. Then put the test pad on the steel and run the test. A thin sheet of steel has way less thermal mass than the earth, so you should be able to see a meaningful change in temperature quickly. That's also way closer to the ASTM method than the test done above.
(sorry bad english level) Have the Klimyt R4.4... impossible to sleep on snow (measured at -3°C) with... dead of cold after 15min (cold from ground, other side my sleeping bag was ok with -10° comfort). Logicaly R4.4 mean -14°C comfort, so it must have been ok on -3°C. With new standard this mat is tested at R1.9 (+4°C) not R4.4. Klimyt change his website with new Rvalue... then back to old Rvalue 2-3month after... without say nothing, and don't write on what standard it apply. This is not fair...
I have a SeeToSummit insulated pad. Extremely confortable compared to the Thermarest Xlite pad. However, only goid for 3 seasons. Despite its thickness, it sinks down a lot and you can feel ground cold on your bum or hips. You can partly compensate this by inflating it further, but if really taut, it becomes much less comfortable.
When someone sleeps in a cold place, his breath will condense on anything close to his nose, and when he wakes up, say to visit the restroom, to water the bushes, there will be an annoying cold damp spot on his collar, his scarf, or his coat lapel... whatever it was he was breathing on. So it is a good idea, when sleeping cold, to wear a towel around your neck and just under your nose. That way, upon waking up, you can set the towel aside and you won't be trying to wear the damp cloth as a piece of clothing.
@@TaivalOutdoors I don't heat my house in the winter. I sleep in my clothes, including a heavy coat, and under a two wool blankets. Whatever the humidity (and dry air tends to be dry), my breath condenses on whatever is directly under my nose.
Really comprehensive review! For me, the S2S Ether light is far to rubbery sounding when tossing around. I didn't even consider the Thermarest pads because of the noise. I found the most comfortable are Nemo Tensor and Big Agnes Q-Core Deluxe. Went with Nemo because it's 8 oz lighter in the wide versions. Coldest camp was -15 F. Not fun.
Oh my gosh this was awesome! What a great video. All the nerdy details I needed to know. THANK YOU also for talking about noise levels, as well as comfort levels for a side-sleeper - those are relevant to my interests. =D
Aaaaaaand subscribed. That is a VERY thorough pad review. WOW! I own the Drop version of klymit insulated pad. Pretty good. I think the idea behind the space between baffles is that it allows the down in your bag to loft and fill the space. Not sure if thats how it actually works in practice and of course a quilt would negate this feature. However, i've never felt cold in mine, down to about 5 celsius anyway.
I think that's right, and that the Klymit pads might work better with a bag than with a quilt because the insulation can loft up in those gaps. I've used one with a quilt and I would say it was a terrible performance.
I got the Klymit UL insulated and froze my arse off where my hips and shoulders did not have any support while side sleeping. It was about 3-5c outside, in an OEX Bobcat, on grass, with a Mylar blanket underneath, I was using an 850 fill down bag. I would recommend this mat for summer use only.
Minus 18c, on Mt Igman in Bosnia. Deep new snow in an old army Bedford MK delivering aid into Sarajevo. We had split the convoy to deliver to different locations. I was driven off the road by an artic (the local drivers are lunatics and don't stop for weather or other traffic) coming the other way. One wheel was over the edge so I couldn't bet back and had to wait for the snow plow that would be coming the next morning. Too dodgy to stay in the truck, look over the edge in daylight and spot several wrecked trucks below. so I slept at the side of the road. Buffalo had given me a sleeping bag, inner and outer, which together make a 4 season bag. The outer has a pertex cover. Also a belay smock and trousers. I fell asleep and woke up when the snow plough stopped when he saw my truck. He pulled me up and I made my way to CanBat (Canadian Battalion) where they fed me, fuelled my truck, and treated me like an honoured guest, I still have the t shirt they gave me, NATO blue, NATO logo on the front and on the back printed bullet holes and 'DONT SHOOT, DAMMIT!' I still have the Buffalo Belay smock and the sleeping bags, the sleeping bags will not go into this coming winter with me though, I sleep a lot colder than I did back then and cant carry the same weight, I want something warmer and lighter.
Great video. Since the past 2 weekends, both well below freezing, I've been trying to talk myself into picking up the xtherm.$$$$. My R-4 Big Agnes has been cold even with foam underneath. It may be the size, a lot stocks out side of my quilt. I'll miss the 4" but I'll enjoy the warmth. Invest in sleep.
Excellent Review! Probably the best one I have seen. I already have a pad I love (Nemo Tensor) and I still watched the whole video. Also cudos on breaking up and labeling the video parts in the scroll bar.
Great review! Thank you! P. S. I have tested Klymit insulated ultralight pad at freezing temperatures (0 Celsius). So that v shape chambers designed to hold your sleeping bag insulation in uncompressed condition to warm your from ground side. But it doesn’t work properly. So at 0 I felt uncomfortable cold.
Great review. I would agree with you so much from experience also. I had a Thermarest and sold it, it was intrusively noisy and I rolled off it all the time. I use a Nemo Cosmo (primaloft insulated) for Kayak Camping and an Exped Downmat HL Winter for the winter backpacking. The Nemo is hands down the most comfortable pad I've ever used. I'm a big fan of Cascade Designs products, but not Thermarest Pads.
Nice video, thanks. Glad to see you calling out Klymit (albeit nicely) on their reported R-values. I bought one of their insulated pads from Massdrop a couple years ago, and the only night I slept outside on it I was COLD. It was only down to the high-30s/low-40s, and I had a 20-degree quilt. All the cold I felt was from below, coming through the pad. I since bought a Big Agnes pad with half the reported R-value, and yet it is much warmer. I would say any Klymit pad is an extremely poor choice for any kind of cold camping, even though their reported (fake) R-values relative to price are enticing.
Yea S2S etherlite for me then, middle aged side sleeper who won’t be able to stand chip bag noise 👍🏻 great review! I’ll just put a foam pad under it too if I’m going anywhere in winter and can be bothered with a foam pad outside the pack
Question: What’s the coldest temp you’ve ever camped in, and did you stay warm?
I've been in single digits but was cold because I had no sleeping pad and the sleeping bag was not rated for temperatures that low. Live and learn.
12 degrees, had a crummy pad, and zero degree mummy kept me from being hypothermic but i froze the whole night.
-35F for 8 days...unheated tent...NorthFace bag on Ensolite pad ...climbing Mt.Washington. 104 mph wind at the summit. Those were the days...Tuckerman’s Ravine...death wish?
Wow!
I feel cold just reading these.
I own or have tested the Exped Downmat UL, Nemo Tensor Alpine and Tensor Insulated, Sea to Summit Etherlight XT, and Thermarest XTherm (all in long-wide) so I can give you points of comparison with the pads in this review. Of the pads he tested that I own, I concur with all of his findings. Measured pad specs in LW (77"x25"): Downmat UL 11.5"x5.5", 34.1oz, R-7.2; XTherm 10x4.5", 27.7oz, R-6.9; Tensor Alpine 9.5"x3.5", 26.2oz, R-4.8; Etherlight XT 10"x5" (12"L with the pump sack at the end), 25.5 oz, R-3.2. The Etherlight is by far the most comfortable (especially for side sleepers), Tensor is second (the Alpine feels the same), Downmat UL is third, and XTherm fourth (though still relatively comfortable even at only 2.5" thick). As a side-sleeper I have to air-down the pads enough to conform but still keep me off the ground. They all loose considerable R-value when you do this, except for (amazingly) the XTHERM. The Downmat UL has a higher R-value of 7.2, but performs second in this regard because it only uses down for insulation, and is equivalent to having an uncompressed down bag underneath you, so it's R-value will be relative to it's thickness. The Tensor and Tensor Alpine live up to their R-value only when fully inflated, but get very noticeable and uncomfortable cold spots under the hips and shoulder when you air-down (as the spots without foil get closer to the ground and transfer more heat). I still feel these cold spots even with a Nemo Switchback R-2 closed cell foam pad underneath in anything below 30-35 degrees. I can comfortably use the Etherlight and Tensor down to these temps if I put the foam pad ON TOP of the air pad (don't ask me the thermodynamics of this, but it's a tried and true method). Below 30 deg I use the Downmat or XTherm, and anything below 15 deg I use them in combination with a foam pad (mainly to keep from dying if the air pad pops). Tensor and Alpine are both very quiet and are the most compact of these pads but the material is very thin. Love these pads for cool to warm weather but I've had two go flat on me, either from pinhole leaks or air leaking out of the valve. The valves can be somewhat annoying. It's second only to the Etherlight in speed and ease of inflation, but the valves can be hard to open and close, and sometimes the 'deflate' valve pops out when your'e trying to open the 'inflate/adjust' valve (they are nested) and dumps the whole pad, and the 'inflate/adjust' valve sometimes doesn't seal (leaks). The Longbow Alpine version may prove to be more robust though 9 oz heavier. Etherlight is the fastest and easiest to inflate and adjust. It's well made and uses thick enough materials not to be too concerned about punctures. Though not as quiet, compact, and light as the Tensor, for me the trade-off for comfort and reliability is worth it. This is my favorite pad by far for luxurious mild-weather backpacking. XTherm is my go-to pad for cold weather despite not being the most comfortable or quiet--simply because I have the most confidence in the warmth, materials, and valve (they are the most robust), it has the best weight to R-value ratio, and it's still more comfortable than 80% of the other backpacking pads out there. Yes, it's by far the loudest, but I don't really notice when I use it in cold temps because I'm in a thick bag wearing a beanie and I can't hear anything anyway. Your tent-mate however may be annoyed. Downmat UL would be my #1 cold weather choice if I were a quilt user. It has the most comfortable materials (almost fuzzy), is quick and easy to inflate and adjust, and though vertical baffles are not my favorite, is quite comfortable. Plus the raised side baffles help keep you on the pad. Downsides--it's the bulkiest, heaviest and has some users reviews reporting it popping in their tent and spraying feathers everywhere (I haven't experienced this myself--fingers crossed).
I have been rocking the klymit static v unisulated for years and I use it all 4 seasons. When it's going to be below 40 degrees I just lay my mylar emergency blanket (which I ALWAYS carry two of when I backpack anyways) underneath. It reflects a TON of heat. Turns a 50 dollar pad into a winter pad for a buck 😉
absolutely facts
I would consider anything above freezing to be summer conditions. I experience below freezing overnight occasionally in August. I doubt your system would work down to negative temps. Obviously if you primarily backpack in a warm climate/environment, you can get away with less than if you backpack in a cold climate.
@briandoolittle3422 i regularly use this setup down to around 20ish degrees andstay toaty warm. Thats in a 0 degree bag, wearing merino wool, in a hammock setup (usually).
Do you still use klymit? I've been using the klymit v for about 3 years, It's a great pad, my favorite in fact, but be real. Anything below 5°c is a struggle.Every timee I bring it to higher elevations, I regret it. That's why I bought the xtherm.
First off, I like your scientific approach to this topic. It's very interesting.
But, there's something you need to understand about how IR Cameras operate. They measure the thermal radiation being emitted from an object, but depends highly on the emissivity of the object (or the effectiveness of the object to emit radiation). Surfaces vary in emissivity from 1.0 (perfect blackbody) to 0.1 (shiny copper). The different surfaces of the sleeping pads may have been throwing off the temperatures being measured by the camera. A better test would have been to place a lightweight strip of fabric or even electrical tape (e~1.0; this is what thermographers use) across the surface of the pad and measure the temperature there. I also agree with the others that a common range or color template would have been a good idea, for comparison purposes.
I'm looking forward to the next video. Thanks.
Also what can be added - contact has huge impact on thermal conductivity. Mats are going to conduct different, while are loaded. Some kind of additiona mass could be introduecd to compare results whith some preload. Also IR camera stuff above is important as hell. Values may vary a lot. BUT I like very much the approach. good way :).
Thanks. Couple remarks: First, the scaling is different for all pads on the temp map. So it gives a skewed image (When it looks more blue, it gives the impression that it's better, but that is not necessarily true). Second, I think the heat reflection is meant to bounce it back up, not down. So you should probably have put the pads upside down on the heater.
Nice testing method. Thanks! However... :-) The idea behind the Static V design is such that the v-shaped grooves are filled with the sleeping bag material when you lay on them. So that’s how they turn out a bit warmer than you would expect based on your test. It’s probably not an enormous difference but from experience I can say the mat is not far off from my insulated Exped down mat.
Interesting results. I did 10,000 miles around South America with the insulated static V (non-ultra lite). Camped up on the Bolivian Altiplano at over 4,000m. I actually found I was too warm more often then being too cold. I also found it very comfortable. I would have liked to see an Exped downmat added to the test list.
Good test. I tend to just bring a closed cell pad, put my regular pad on top and now I magically have an "insulated" pad. You don't have to go bankrupt buying dedicated winter gear to go backpacking in colder weather. Bring an extra blanket, double up your sleeping pads, wear a hat and some warm heavy socks to bed. And carry a few hand warmers to fire off inside your bag if your particular version of the McGyver "winter" bag isn't cutting it at 2AM.
would love one on foam pads!
They aren't any good lol
I've used my Nemo Tensor for winter backpacking in the Grand Canyon for 3 nights and camping in the Sonoran desert, it was great!
Was it uninsulated older version or a V2 with some R-value up to 4.4 or so?
Insulated & it finally got a small leak while in Chicago Basin Colorado, that I can't find.😢
I would also add the Exped Downmat UL and XP, Nemo Tensor Alpine and the Paria Recharge UL and XL.
I have a downmat 9 dlx (the old internal pump type), 10 years still going strong.. best pad ever. I just pack a lighter bag, which I'm able to do with the high R rating pad, to offset.
I second the Paria Outdoor Products - ReCharge XL.
I'm still using a Therarest I bought thirty years ago. It's one of the original ones and at about 25mm. thick, it still does what I bought it for. At the time, it cost nearly £50, but it's certainly paid for itself since then.
THANK YOU! It's refreshing to see more than just opinions on sleeping pads or camping equipment in general. I'm currently looking at sleeping pads and dry bags and the number of verbose and qualitative videos in which people DON'T submerge the dry bags or use any standard to say which product is better is baffling. Thank you again!
Great video, being a side sleeper I've been trying to narrow down my selection of a lightweight pad for a thru-hike. I appreciate you demonstrating pack size, weight, inflation, thermal properties (with explanation), noise, and your subjective views on comfort. Really helped.
I'm a side sleeper as well. I have the Klymit Static V, both regular and insulated, and the Big Agnes insulated Q Core SLX (r-value about 3.5). (plus some non-inflated). For my purposes, the Q Core was the best balance between weight, warmth, and cushion for side sleeping. The baffles aren't as stationary, going lengthwise, but it's really thick overall. That said, I don't know if I'd thru hike with it over the insulated Klymit. There have been reports about being less durable.
Thank you for the very thorough review. It really helped me with my pad selection (I chose a S2S). I wish you kept the charts and packed size in the same order as the opening line up all the time. It would've been easier to keep track of which is which.
Duuuuude! This is REALLY interesting, thank you for your effort to put this together!
Bought the Nemo Tensor last year bc I am a side sleeper and it was great on the trips we got in on the AT during late Fall. Never felt cold from below, noise is almost nonexistent , and it was very comfortable. My young boys have the static v and it is just too noisy for me but works for them. Nice review. Thanks.
I got the nemo tensor. I can't wait.
This was very throurough, so cool. I have a suggestion for a thing to try, which could put many an online debate to rest. I don't have a thermal camera or otherwise I'd do it myself.
People are always arguing about how much space blankets/mylar/reflectix does or does not add. I think it could be really cool if you could film your pads with a sheet of that. I'd propose this stack:
Control:
3D printer bed
cloth to spread heat
Sleeping pad (face down)
black cover blanket (to get uniform temp readings)
Test:
3D printer bed
cloth to spread heat
Sleeping pad (face down)
Reflectix/mylar (shiney side down)
black cover blanket (to get uniform temp readings)
The argument is usually that the reflective foil can't work because the pad is touching it, while others insist that it adds meaningful warmth to their system nonetheless.
I have the Static V UL and have used it out on the JMT with some nights getting down to the 30's. Didn't have any issues with cold from the ground.
This is the best video on UA-cam for sleeping pad evaluation. Thanks so much! I have a Nemo Tensor wide pad. It's rated at R4.2. It's confortable, packs relatively small and is reasonably light. Also have a Big Agnes AXL mummy. It's only 20" at the widest point. My arms kept falling off and getting cold so I bought the Tensor in 25" width. My summer go-to pad is a knockoff of the Klymit V. It has a claimed R value of 2.2. Only 16 ounces and pretty comfortable for back sleeping. Price difference was about $100, and the quality difference is obvious. That said, I'm trying to lighten my load so when the weather/temps allow I go with the lighter pad. A tip; I use a silver mylar coated bubble wrap pad under my pad to increase R value. It's recycled packing material from Hello Fresh shipping container. (They no longer use it.) 2 ounces for a 22 x 60 inch piece.
Thank you for this video! Great comparison and info. I often use an emergency space blanket between the tent floor and the sleep pad as extra insulation. It'd be really interesting to see how a cheap £2 option like this coupled with one of the lesser insulated pads on test brings the r value or heat loss test results nearer the likes of the thermorest 6.9 👍
The UK RAF Mountain Rescue unit did a comparison between a so-called "space blanket" and an ordinary plastic bag. The bag was better! I totally disagree with Gear Test's assertion that we lose 65% of heat through radiation. We lose most through convection and conduction, so a reflective layer has little effect!
@@migranthawker2952
That's why I always carry an extra large bin liner in my backpack to help prevent low temperatures from getting the upper hand and as an emergency bivvy, tarp, etc.
Radiation plays the major part in loss of body heat, as, when standing, we lose almost half our body heat through our heads, but, as you say, conduction isn't exactly innocent, as the cold ground leeches heat from us, seeking an ambient balance.
Even simple respiration plays a part.
@@migranthawker2952 Link please?
I don't have and don't like the Klimit mats, but there's a catch with the V shapes that they use, as someone with a sleeping bag will have some of the sleeping bag insulation fluff up and fill the grooves between the V shapes, thus adding some warmth to your back.
Been using the insulated static v for years, never had the squeaky sound 🤷♂️
It also works better with a bag and not a quilt as it lets the insulation of the bag to puff up and do its thing.
Same, I actually got rid of my Xtherm because it was too noisy, narrow and uncomfortable. I love my insulated static V.
I've been using my REI AirRail 1.5 for a few years now and it's pretty great. It has a claimed R-value of 4.2 and the inflated "rail" extensions on both sides of the pad (hence the name) does manage to keep me on the pad on most nights.
Thanks for this video. I would be very interested for you to do a video on closed-cell foam pads and self-inflating pads. I am a more budget minded hiker/backpacker and would love to see how more budget friendly pads (i.e. closed-cell/self-inflating, etc.) would do with these tests. Thanks again for all you do. Great video.
Noted! Thanks for watching!
One thing to keep in mind regarding this test is that it doesn't take into account the insulating properties of the sleeping bag on top of the pad. Sleeping bags insulate best when the insulation if fully lofted. When the insulation is compressed (by your body lying on top of it) it loses most of its insulating value. The deep grooves of the Klymit pads are designed to allow the sleeping bag to loft and provide insulation to the body. Most of the other pads only have shallow depressions which limit the lofting (and therefore the insulation) of the sleeping bag.
You arexthe science teacher missed in so many schools! Interesting and detailed! Thank you
I'd for sure want to see this kind of video comparison done with the self-inflating sleeping pads. I'm curious to see what the differences will be; I have a sneaking suspicion there's a possibility of more thermal transfer (due to the interior expanding filler). Regardless, I'll keep an eye out if you get a video posted for the self-inflating genre of sleeping pads. Cheers
Great review but one point of contention. The hottest spot measured on a pad isn't particularly relevant. A tiny hot spot isn't as bad as a very large area that's a bit cooler as the large area will have a far greater total heat transfer.
I was going to post something similar. The average temperature across the pad is more relevant (I think :) ).
Not necessarily.
The water line for our clothes washer runs through our garage space. Its insulated but if our garage gets below freezing (rare) then the hot water line freezes up but the cold water line does not. It’s called the Mpemba effect.
Since the human body is mostly water a small badly insulated area could see similarly larger amounts of heat transfer than the average insulation amount would lead to. Not the same mechanism necessarily, but if it happens with water your skin is 2/3 warm water. That’s a lot of heat transfer material.
Appreciate the extensive testing as always Paul! You have one of the most intricate and detailed outdoor channels I've found, both in content value as well as production value. Amazing research and work! Keep it up!
Thanks!
That light-headed feeling is my favorite thing about my air mattress.
In that case, a long wide Tensor would give you hours of enjoyment. 😆
@@GearTestTV NOT TRUE at least not for my mummy version. Try my second pad after blaming it on my not sleeping - the 4" Wide insulated Double Z from Big Agnes. You're going down the rabbit hole on that one. Its my loner LOL
Would be really interested to see a comparison with the new tech inflatable pads with “old school” closed cell mats like the Finnish Savotta military issue and other such similar mats. Many thanks for your thoughtful and very helpful reviews!
Back in the early 70's we thought the "new" closed cell 3/8 inch thick foam pads were the best thing ever.
I was literally about to buy the Static V UL insulated and I think I'll go with the Thermarest. Thank you for this video!
Great content! Love that you went through all heat loss mechanisms. How you use a pad makes a big difference as well, especially on snow. I camp in floorless tents in the winter. I dig a pocket for my inflatable in the snow (tensor insulated mummy) then overlay a 1cm smooth evazote pad on top (failsafe winter contingency, and improved comfort, really, bed-like). Total r-value 4.9 for the system. Snow often has a high air content, even as it compacts you don't need crazy high r-values to be comfy. I've been a couple times at -20 to -30 and was totally fine. Biggest issue at those temps is breathing comfort. Layering is a great concept for sleep systems as well, pads and bags. I do everything with a combination of a 0 degree bag, a 32 degree quilt and the two pads above.
I have the neoair x-term. I sleep very well. I sleep on the side. I think noise reduce over time and use. It is a little bit too warm in the mornings in a tent in the summertime when the sun is shining on the tent, but otherwise I love it. It is the best sleeping pad I have had so far.
Got the cheaper option and I glued a mylar emergency blanket to the bottom of the pad with the shiny side pointing upwards for an excellent upgrade.
I have to give a plug for the Klymit V UL insulated. It's been my go to for winter camping. One of the things the this video (great video, BTW) doesn't take into account is that the ridges are designed to create spaces for the loft from your sleeping bag to fill. Keeping the bag "lofty" increases its overall insulating properties. When a bag is compressed against a flat surface, it will loss some of it's insulating power. Thus, by creating ridges, you lose some insulation from the pad, but gain it back with your bag.
What (ground) temperatures have you used it down to?
The coldest I've gone is minus 7 Fahrenheit. My feet were icicles. Comfortably, I can get down to the twenties, with the caveat that I use an Outdoor Reasearch Alpine Bivy in winter, which is incredibly warm by itself.@@danos5181
Great video.
Who would have guessed the noise some of these make; most are a deal breaker for me except Klimit and Nemo.
What a heartbreak!!!! The best insulated sleeping pad is also the one that will keep you up at night, because you think someone is eating sunchips! DANG. Thank you so much for this incredible video! Very thorough testing, with all the necessary details and no fuzz! Subbed :)
Thanks for this video. I live in Canada and I try to avoid camping in the colder months, but it is the sound that they make that I can never find out until I buy one. Really appreciated you covering that aspect of these designs. Wish they had a noise rating like they do for thermal ratings.
I’m holding you to your promise and appreciate your efforts to keep the outdoors quiet! 😊
I'd love to see you do a test with multiple mats, (close cell with a air mattress, maybe reflectix and an air mattress, etc). I would be curious to see which one is better next to the ground and/or which ones would be better next to your body. You have a great channel keep up the good work 👍👍
This is some high level nerd energy right here. I love it. Thanks for the thorough analysis!
Great video. I love the sciency aspect. I've got a bunch of pads and two 6.9 R XTherms -- nothing compares.
I am a big guy, so I am wondering on WIDTH. They wide enough???
@@jackdundon2261 two lashed together are perfect for me and the Mrs. However, I'm average sized. When alone (and maybe in a hammock), I lay another small old mat under like a + cross, just for my elbows.
Exped Synmat Winterlite R 4.9. Saved my bacon on the AT at 15 deg.
Loved your video and your methodology. I have 2 of the Static V Insulated Pads (different than the ones you are showing) and one has the older valve like you have and the second one I have is with their new valve system. The reason I have 2, is because my pad with the older valve made the same noise as yours and it sounded like air is escaping so I contacted Klymit and they sent me a new one with their new valve system and let me keep the old one and sure enough there is no noise on the new one. I think the air was only escaping within the pad and not out of it, but my point is it could be because of the old valve even though it doesn't sound like the sound is coming from it, but more importantly, Klymit was great to deal with and had amazing customer support. Thanks again for the great video.
I'm not a backpacker, nor do I have plans to yet I enjoyed this very informative video.
Great vid. A suggestion... Mount the thermal camera on a tripod and take the average temperature across the imaged section, assuming the camera allows for a fixed scale
This. The average matters more than any one point.
Hello... Very interesting and well-done video... I'm retired and I hike a lot with at least a 7 to 10 days trek per month...To me, after all of these years, I only use now 2 to 3 superposed foam mattresses. The real problem of all of these 'inflatables' is that at a certain point it will be flat because of a hole, a melted side that leaks, the valve, patch that don't glue enough, long and hard to inflate especially on high altitude etc... I spent a lot of money in all of those, including military ones... My foam mattresses are big, make a big roll over my backpack, but they are light enough, insulated enough even in frigid temps, i'm all set in seconds, they make no noise at all, I saved a lot of crazy money and it works good nights after nights after nights. I also saved a lot of nerves spent insulting my 'deflated' inflatable mattress in the middle of the night at the top of a mountain during a freezing night, one after the others... Like that, I enjoy much better backpacking without problems...And I sleep well!
hands down the most comfortable for me is the Nemo, it tried several of the others including sea to summit and it was a no go. The tensors I beams are just far and away the most supportive and comfortable of the bunch. Im pretty sure the xtherm has BOTH the reflective materiel as well as a layer of synthetic fill which is why its a 6 r value and also retains the heat as you showed. Its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison there with that pad vs the others as they arent designed to do the same thing. A much closer comparison would be the nemo alpine version of the tensor. Great work on this, and great examples!
I haven't reached out to Thermarest to confirm this, but their website listing for the Xtherm emphasizes that their design does not have the same issues as down or synthetic insulation, so my understanding is that the Xtherm does not contain any lofting insulation. The Tensor is great though! Haven't had a chance to get my hands on the Tensor Alpnine, but I'd love to compare it at some point.
Curious, what didn’t you like about the StS Ether? I bought a couple of Tensor Insulated for a Colorado trip for my gf and I and we absolutely hated them. Micro leaks on one pad too, which made it even worse. Numb shoulders and hips throughout the nights. I’m a side sleeper so the thought of a 4” pad sounds truly amazing. I had a Exped before that which was fine at 3.5” and another Nemo double wide at 3.5” which was so awesome but so darn heavy. Thing was a tank.
I tried to do something similar with 3 pads and a laser thermometer.... i was less successful in getting usable data. The R values mostly matched with relative performance! You killed it here with this video though!! Super informative and well done!!
The test is great, UA-cam gold.
⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️
Probably the best video I've seen about inflatable sleeping pads, great test. Would've loved to see Exped tested too. I can confirm that with my experience, the old temperature ratings (that still some stores list) were often a bit too good to be true.
there doesn't seem to be much love for them, unless you in Vanlife or something. But I love my pad, which is good when you sleeping round your Mum's office on it for the last month
im so happy i purchased a nemo tensor for my first hike mat, done so much research, knew it was hefty at first but here we all are almost a year since purchase and im not dissapointed and all i see and hear on yt now is nemo tensor is comfy or another youtuber posting it tied with this etc. nemo for life....yall think 2-300 for a pad is deer, i got two nemo chairs at 600 for both just have that itch for expensive good items now cause i know its going to last and be comfy etc
XTherm weight to R-value did it for me. I'll put up with the extra crinkles for a warmer night's sleep. Interesting to see it tested. Thanks!
Normally when in a sleepingbag, the down underneath it Will be compressed and not insulate you because you are laying on it. A point to make about the Klymit Stativ V is that the V shaped rooms between the baffles allows your sleepingbag to puff Up and not be compressed by your bodyweight and thereby insulating you even while you are laying on it. A test of that would be interesting, because that is why there is No insulation in the wholes :)
I have a Klymit Static V lite insulated pad and I have always justified it this way. HOWEVER, I am not sure that it really works this way in practice. Although the gaps can fill in with the down from underneath the sleeping bag (though not fully since they are still being compresses by the weight of the sleeper), they cannot fill the gap underneath the pad. NOR do these do anything for the primary loss of heat through radiation. If Klymit could address these issues in future versions of the pads, they I really think they could have a winning design.
Like you, I have the same two Klymit pads. They were my first ones and worked for what I was doing. Over time, I have developed into a side sleeper and have found the Paria Recharge XL (76 x 23 x 4, 4.7R, 26oz, $85) works best for me. I cannot sleep on a firm pad and the 4 inch thickness allows me to have a softer pad without hips or shoulders hitting the ground. I have used it in the mid 20s with my SD 20 degree backcountry bed and stayed plenty warm, actually a little too hot at one point. I wish I would have known about that pad before buying the other 4 I have in my basement. It's amazing how much money we waste on gear over time.
The Recharge XL is the most comfortable pad I have ever purchased. The Nemo Tensor Alpine was a close second, but its 20d face fabric is fragile and pops easilly. The Recharge is songood that I also bought the DW version for when my wife and I car camp.
For winter I found the ReCharge's R value however to be a bit lacking since I sleep cold.
For winter camping the best pad I have ever used is the Exped Downmat XP and UL. This is fantastic as they have r values of 7 and 8 and unlike the Thermarest Xtherm it is a slow heat gain, rather than the raging heat from the Xtherm. The Expeds also have a superior valve system and are 3.5" tall; way better than 2.5 on the Xtherm.
Thermarest is super noisy and I hate the chip sound. Returned that immediately to Moosejaw after inflating one time.
Just a note on the Klymit UL SL...I have one and used it on a trip in Utah's High Uintas Wilderness in late August where we got a night that made our camp really frosty and froze our water bottles. So nighttime temps easily got down to 25-30 Fahrenheit which was roughly confirmed by a keychain thermometer I carry. I didn't feel a chill at all sleeping on it. Why not? Because my 20 degree down bag lofted enough under me to fill those gaps where those welded seams are between the baffles on the pad. It is actually designed for that to happen.
So...While the Klymit may not be a true 4.4 under the new standard, I think it could definitely be very close as shown by your test when used with a lofty sleeping BAG and so it certainly works well for 3 season use with such a bag and even 4 seasons in most southern regions of the country. I would NOT use it with a QUILT, as your test shows that would be risky in colder temps. I do also slip my sit pad under the pelvic area to protect my hip in case I do end up bottoming out with it when using it but haven't had it really happen yet. I also use a trash bag inflator I made for it to minimize warm moist breath going into it. Oh, and I also get the occasional squeak with it. Was worse out of the box, but very infrequent now and doesn't seem to occur when it's all settled out. It's a fine pad for those who don't have the budget for the more premium brands and models.
That all said, I did pick up a previous model of the standard NeoAir on clearance last year and have been favoring that for its additional weight savings. Also just got my wife the women's version of the insulated Ether Light because she hasn't been a fan of the horizontal baffles of the old XTherm she'd been using. That Ether really is plush and comfy! Now...I would love to lay on a Nemo sometime to see how it compares in comfort.
Cool yeah for sure! I slept on an uninsulated air pad for many trips. Probably lost 15 deg., could not use my bag as a quilt, but now with an insulated pad (R3+) I can.
That's a great use for the 3d printer bed! Definitely wouldn't have thought of that.
Thank you for the information. I am happy with my Xtherm, bought it in 2018 and still using. It has a good size. Whenever I do an international flight I put in my bag just in case.
One of the all time great pads. They just need to revisit their valve system.
I purchased a Finnish FDF sleeping pad that is made of a foam rollup and glad I did!... Durable and at the same time not too heavy to carry while keeping you dryer and not as cold with your back towards the ground!... But to each their own! I don't like blow-up pads because of the fear with how long they last!
Best video ever I'm a winter time backpacker. This was so helpful! Thanks
I have the Nemo Tensor and I love it nothing beats its comfort plus its nicely warm and worth the extra weight
Also, I am glad you mentioned ground temp vs air temp. I used my BA AXL (uninsulated) over the summer in the Sierras, and it got cool in the evening, 30s-low 40s, but had no issues staying cold. Fast forward to December, I hiked out i. A local area where the temps have been hovering around 30s-40s all day, and low 30s at night. The ground was colder, and I was doing crunches all night to stay warm.
This is a great comprehensive video. I learned a lot. Can't wait for part 2!
Great video! Most informative sleeping pad video I've seen.
I have three ther-a-rest sleeping pads (uber light, xlite, xtherm)
I started with just the xlite but got the xtherm for winter and the uberlite for summer backpacking.
I found that I use the uberlite most of the year. If the night temps are going to drop I found that I need the xtherm (that cold really sleeps through!). I rarely use my xlite anymore.
My xtherm has kept me warm in below freezing & when snow is falling (and I get cold easily). Never have regretted the high cost.
I don’t have a problem rolling off it (even sleeping with my dog) as my sleeping quilt & sleeping bag both have clips so they stay on top of my sleeping pad.
I have the green seatosummit, went camping in the cold too - on the snow, there is no problem. Mine is perfect. And comfortable
You should do a video comparing these to the thermal properties of a $10 pool float from Walmart. Might give us an idea if these sleeping pad vendors are laughing their butts off at us paying $150+ for a glorified pool float.
To be fair, that pool float is going to weigh a LOT more than these as it is made of much thicker cheap material.
That said, I think the Xtherm in this test really shows that a higher R value pad really does make a big difference.
You could absolutely replace summer pad with a pool float, summer/fall idk winter I doubt
An inflatable pool mattress has nearly zero R value.
I use an older thermarest inflatable , silent and saving my hip n back big time .
Sleeping bag is some old thing I got at goodwill .
I have no heat in my sleeping box and I stay hella warm and no pain
@@scottsmith4145You say without evidence
Im in my last year of chemical engineering and couldn’t agree more with you about that heat transfer class comment lol... You couldn’t have explained it any better. Love the vids.
Haha, thanks! All the best in your final classes.
Well done. Very comprehensive for my needs. I was considering purchasing one of the Nemo pads, but now know I would be unhappy. I am not for the noise these pads create, and have decided to forgo weight concerns for the quite foam style pads. Thank you 🙏🏼.
My favorite pad so far is the nemo Cosmo 25L insulated. It has a built in footpump has a R value of 3.5. Weighs 2 lbs 4 oz or the uninsulated at 1 lb 13 oz .they are 3.5 inches thick.
-20 degrees in a rock quarry with winds coming off of a nearby lake with no sleeping pad and a cheap 20-degree sleeping bag... Misery makes memories!!
I use R-value 5.0 mats in winter, and when it is very cold, I use R-value 3.0 mats overlapped. This overlap can withstand the coldness of the floor.
I use your mom
It would be interesting to see the heat loss results of actually lieing on the pads. Even both on your back and on your side. This could be measured by putting the pad on a cold ground and lieing on it for a while, then removing the mat and pointing the thermal camera on the ground to see how much heat got through. As a side sleeper it would be interesting to see which pad handles pointy hips and shoulders the best regarding heat loss. Also, I think the Klymit construction works better if you actually lie on it, since your weight might squeeze those baffles together to get rid of the cold uninsulated spot in between.
Edit: Subscribed. Love this kind of analytical approach to hiking gear. This material unlocks the next level of my gear research addiction lol
Great rundown!! I feel like the cold spots in the Klymit pads are mitigated with sleeping bag insulation filling the gaps. My son sleeps on our Klymit Insulated V, like the orange one in the vid, down to 30 degrees no problem. But he's in a Big Agnus 15 degree down bag. I think u might feel those cold spot if only using a top quilt, where no insulation would fill the gaps.
The ground is so big, it might just act like a thermal reservoir and not show much change in temperature at all. So the difference in ground temperature after the test might not be big enough to see between the pads, but certainly worth a shot. If you made an insulated plate, that would probably be better. Put a closed cell foam mat on the ground and a sheet of steel over it. Let the steel reach equilibrium temperature. Then put the test pad on the steel and run the test. A thin sheet of steel has way less thermal mass than the earth, so you should be able to see a meaningful change in temperature quickly. That's also way closer to the ASTM method than the test done above.
(sorry bad english level)
Have the Klimyt R4.4... impossible to sleep on snow (measured at -3°C) with... dead of cold after 15min (cold from ground, other side my sleeping bag was ok with -10° comfort).
Logicaly R4.4 mean -14°C comfort, so it must have been ok on -3°C.
With new standard this mat is tested at R1.9 (+4°C) not R4.4.
Klimyt change his website with new Rvalue... then back to old Rvalue 2-3month after... without say nothing, and don't write on what standard it apply.
This is not fair...
I have a SeeToSummit insulated pad. Extremely confortable compared to the Thermarest Xlite pad. However, only goid for 3 seasons. Despite its thickness, it sinks down a lot and you can feel ground cold on your bum or hips. You can partly compensate this by inflating it further, but if really taut, it becomes much less comfortable.
When someone sleeps in a cold place, his breath will condense on anything close to his nose, and when he wakes up, say to visit the restroom, to water the bushes, there will be an annoying cold damp spot on his collar, his scarf, or his coat lapel... whatever it was he was breathing on. So it is a good idea, when sleeping cold, to wear a towel around your neck and just under your nose. That way, upon waking up, you can set the towel aside and you won't be trying to wear the damp cloth as a piece of clothing.
This depends on air humidity, not just temperatures alone. I use balaclava to combat this issue.
@@TaivalOutdoors I don't heat my house in the winter. I sleep in my clothes, including a heavy coat, and under a two wool blankets. Whatever the humidity (and dry air tends to be dry), my breath condenses on whatever is directly under my nose.
Really comprehensive review! For me, the S2S Ether light is far to rubbery sounding when tossing around. I didn't even consider the Thermarest pads because of the noise. I found the most comfortable are Nemo Tensor and Big Agnes Q-Core Deluxe. Went with Nemo because it's 8 oz lighter in the wide versions. Coldest camp was -15 F. Not fun.
Oh my gosh this was awesome! What a great video. All the nerdy details I needed to know. THANK YOU also for talking about noise levels, as well as comfort levels for a side-sleeper - those are relevant to my interests. =D
Thanks so much for the tips! Sucks to have a bad night sleep case you’re uncomfortable then having to get out on the trail the next day.
Aaaaaaand subscribed. That is a VERY thorough pad review. WOW! I own the Drop version of klymit insulated pad. Pretty good. I think the idea behind the space between baffles is that it allows the down in your bag to loft and fill the space. Not sure if thats how it actually works in practice and of course a quilt would negate this feature. However, i've never felt cold in mine, down to about 5 celsius anyway.
I think that's right, and that the Klymit pads might work better with a bag than with a quilt because the insulation can loft up in those gaps. I've used one with a quilt and I would say it was a terrible performance.
One of the best sleeping pad videos I've seen. Thank you!!!!
Thank you so much ! This wasn’t jjst helpful but I enjoyed it and you truly reduced my pre purchase anxiety!! Thank you god bless always
I have the Nemo tensor alpine and it’s the most comfortable warmest sleeping pad I have had on the market
I got the Klymit UL insulated and froze my arse off where my hips and shoulders did not have any support while side sleeping. It was about 3-5c outside, in an OEX Bobcat, on grass, with a Mylar blanket underneath, I was using an 850 fill down bag. I would recommend this mat for summer use only.
Minus 18c, on Mt Igman in Bosnia. Deep new snow in an old army Bedford MK delivering aid into Sarajevo. We had split the convoy to deliver to different locations. I was driven off the road by an artic (the local drivers are lunatics and don't stop for weather or other traffic) coming the other way. One wheel was over the edge so I couldn't bet back and had to wait for the snow plow that would be coming the next morning. Too dodgy to stay in the truck, look over the edge in daylight and spot several wrecked trucks below. so I slept at the side of the road.
Buffalo had given me a sleeping bag, inner and outer, which together make a 4 season bag. The outer has a pertex cover. Also a belay smock and trousers. I fell asleep and woke up when the snow plough stopped when he saw my truck.
He pulled me up and I made my way to CanBat (Canadian Battalion) where they fed me, fuelled my truck, and treated me like an honoured guest, I still have the t shirt they gave me, NATO blue, NATO logo on the front and on the back printed bullet holes and 'DONT SHOOT, DAMMIT!'
I still have the Buffalo Belay smock and the sleeping bags, the sleeping bags will not go into this coming winter with me though, I sleep a lot colder than I did back then and cant carry the same weight, I want something warmer and lighter.
Always putting in the effort to give the most valuable videos in the backpacking world. Thanks for the effort.
My FAVORITE pad is my Klymit insulated UL. Not sure what the real R value is but it is all I ever need in the Colorado Rockies for 3 seasons. Good pad
Perfect review! All I need in 1 movie. Thx!
Great video. Since the past 2 weekends, both well below freezing, I've been trying to talk myself into picking up the xtherm.$$$$. My R-4 Big Agnes has been cold even with foam underneath. It may be the size, a lot stocks out side of my quilt. I'll miss the 4" but I'll enjoy the warmth. Invest in sleep.
Look at the Exped DownMat series as well.
Where'd you get your PhD in backpacking? 😂😂😂 You have the most in depth reviews and tests I've ever seen. Keep it up, your content is top notch
I guess the squeaky sound is unique to your pad: I own 4 different Klymits and none of them squeaks :)
maan, best reviewer right now in the game. please keep going
Excellent Review! Probably the best one I have seen. I already have a pad I love (Nemo Tensor) and I still watched the whole video. Also cudos on breaking up and labeling the video parts in the scroll bar.
This is the 2nd in a row of Greg topics and great comparison Vids you have done (that I have watched). Great work, thank you!
I‘ve got both the Uberlite and the X-Therm. Find myself using the Uberlite even more than I thought I would, even in the cold.
Great review! Thank you!
P. S. I have tested Klymit insulated ultralight pad at freezing temperatures (0 Celsius). So that v shape chambers designed to hold your sleeping bag insulation in uncompressed condition to warm your from ground side. But it doesn’t work properly. So at 0 I felt uncomfortable cold.
Great review.
I would agree with you so much from experience also. I had a Thermarest and sold it, it was intrusively noisy and I rolled off it all the time.
I use a Nemo Cosmo (primaloft insulated) for Kayak Camping and an Exped Downmat HL Winter for the winter backpacking.
The Nemo is hands down the most comfortable pad I've ever used. I'm a big fan of Cascade Designs products, but not Thermarest Pads.
Nice video, thanks. Glad to see you calling out Klymit (albeit nicely) on their reported R-values. I bought one of their insulated pads from Massdrop a couple years ago, and the only night I slept outside on it I was COLD. It was only down to the high-30s/low-40s, and I had a 20-degree quilt. All the cold I felt was from below, coming through the pad. I since bought a Big Agnes pad with half the reported R-value, and yet it is much warmer. I would say any Klymit pad is an extremely poor choice for any kind of cold camping, even though their reported (fake) R-values relative to price are enticing.
Yea S2S etherlite for me then, middle aged side sleeper who won’t be able to stand chip bag noise 👍🏻 great review! I’ll just put a foam pad under it too if I’m going anywhere in winter and can be bothered with a foam pad outside the pack