THE GREAT UNITED METHODIST SPLIT AND THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE Part 1 - Do They Really Believe it?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Though great claims are made by the Institutionalists within the United Methodist Church regarding their high view of Scripture, the evidence points to the opposite. Official spokesman for UM doctrine, Adam Hamilton, denys the 6 day Creation, questions the validity of the story of Jonah and Noah's Ark, and refused to believe God commanded the Israelites to kill the Canaanites, who had been cursed under His wrath. Can one pick and chose which portions of Scripture are God's Word for us today, and which are not? This video proves that the UMC as an institution has been taken over by Bible-denying Progressives, who will continue to lead into it's slide of complete apostasy, and that the only option of the biblical Christian is to get out.
Part 2 - • The Great United Metho...
#disaffiliation
#progressive
#stayumc
#unitedmethodistchurch
#umsplit
#traditionalist
#progressive
#unitedmethodistvideos
#Adamhamilton
When leaders question the legitimacy of clear doctrinal statements in the Bible it is time to search for different leadership or time to search for the exit.
One simply cannot claim a high view of Scripture without absolute submission to it. I was told nearly 30 years ago by a UMC pastor, working on his DDiv at what used to be the most conservative of UMC seminaries, Wesley in DC. He said...no...boldly proclaimed, "The Bible is a great collection of stories and myths and we must be wise enough to discern what is reliable." That does not sound like the high view they claim, and was clear enough for me to shake the dust off my shoes.
This discussion is the mind rot brought on by people who believe god is whispering in their ear.
I find it frightening that I live among so many people who believe what is obviously mythology to be the so called word of god.
It is much more frightening to live in a society that rejects the Scriptures as the revealed Word of God.
I’m sorry but Genocide in the name of God is not acceptable. Truth, reason, logic and humanity needs to prevail over the Bible. You identified the root cause very well, thank you. The choice is very clear
The commands of God to the Israelites to mete out judgement upon the dwellers in Canaan would not be classified as genocide. God has the power of life and death and the authority to give and take as He sees fit, whether by flood or sword. No one can claim such a thing today, as the proper interpretation of Scripture does not support such a notion. As His other mighty acts, they were for a particular time and purpose.
@@jeffdollar1646 Thanks for your reply Jeff. you do get down to the root of the problem. Just curious if I can ask you because I’m learning still. Would you consider your view above to be a “Dispensationalist” view of scripture?
@@dmalane no sir, I would hold to the Covenantal approach of historic Methodism.
@@jeffdollar1646 I'm not being snarky, but if God wanted the Caananites dead, why didn't he just kill them himself? It's not like he hadn't killed directly before.
The Holy Spirit commands us to use Faith and Reason to determine how to best interpret Scripture. Otherwise, it's a "mere" act of "Ego" to say "gay people need not apply". You can dislike the "overreaching" of "far left" UMC churches (and many moderates would agree...since that is the fundamental nature of Methodist: moderate) while still recognizing how critical it is, in these "end times" to stay united. It just further shows the end times truly are near...when even Methodists can agree on the basics of "faith-based" teachings and Scripture. One can respect and honor the Scripture while still (correctly) recognizing that the Holy Spirit has the "final Word" on all issues of morality...Christ transcends the written word, which conservatives seem to find threatening. But Christ's Kingdom cannot come if we continue to use 2000+ year old texts to guide modern morality.
They intentionally muddy the waters to try to make them seem deep.
That'll be mentioned in part 2 if I ever get around to it.
It is interesting that the pastor in the video states that those who want to remove parts of the Bible they disagree with are not under the authority of scripture but assume authority over scripture. Isn’t that what Martin Luther did?
Those leaving the Traditional UMC are the only. ones responsible for all the publicity. . My church,like most congregations , is thriving .
If the goal is to badger old ladies bound by tradition into giving more, so one doesn't have to work a real job that requires effort or serious study...then being a UMC minister is probably the place to be. If seriously studying the Bible, the original languages and the historic church is the goal, it's time to look elsewhere.
My paternal grandmother was an adherent of the Roman Church so my dad attended classes where the catechism of that organization was taught. My paternal grandfather was Lutheran and read his German Bible (translated by the sixteenth century reformer, Martin Luther) at home to the whole family every day. My grandfather was the caretaker of the Hebrew cemetery in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and had use of a three-room building and room for a large vegetable garden on the cemetery grounds so the whole family was also influenced by the beliefs and practices of the Hebrews in Pittsburgh.
Our parents read Bible stories - sometimes from the King James translation and sometimes by other authors - to my siblings and me from the time we were born. Before I was ten, I could have picked out any “mistakes” if someone had tried to get creative in the telling of at least 150 Bible stories.
No one in our family was ever a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also known as Mormons) but, when I was fourteen, missionaries from that organization held “discussions” with our parents. The oldest of my three siblings and I sat in on the discussions.
By the time the missionaries returned for a second visit, I was able to tell them that I had decided to use “the principle of prior reference”. I had never heard it called that but I explained to the missionaries that I had decided that anything purported to be special revelation should be evaluated and interpreted by older revelation. They were doing the opposite of that.
Within a few weeks of those visits by the LdS missionaries, I had begun to study the Bible, determined to decide for myself which parts of the Bible could be made to harmonize with the Torah/Pentateuch (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible).
I haven’t yet found any reason to discard any of the 66 books of the protestant Bible.
On the other hand, because the vast majority of protestant traditionalists attempt to understand the Hebrew Bible “through the lens of the new testament” (their characterization), I understand quite a bit of the Bible differently than the traditionalists do.
Which is to say that my religion is personal - not institutional.
In the twenty-first century, millions of people are looking for an alternative to institutional religion. If you decide to study the Bible for yourself, please keep this in mind: A person who uses the principle of prior reference is far less likely to be deceived by people who claim to have - or follow - modern revelation.
A wish that probably is impractible, m'man in Christo+ :
To live close by. Become friend of yours after establishing a minimal level of trust. Have lunch every couple weeks. Not for a Bible bash but for "communion."
(This happened to me, an LDS missionary in Québec many moons ago. After 2 such long bashes, which quickly deteriorated into circles and knots over the question of God the Father as "Jehova" or not, it was the 3-4 "Jay Dub" bros who cut things short and suggested we stop engaging in this manner. They together suggested the surprising alternative. For quite some time we then simply met at the same day/time every week...we all brought sack lunches...we traded around the contents...what was not nabbed up always got eaten up by one or two of us hungry guys. That part was out of simple rules of graciousness and hospitality. We compared notes on questions like: "And Scott how you been?")
[This could be a short film where the truth is often better than any fiction or myth or "revelation" whatever that term might mean.]
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Yes. Just 2 honest guys having a good guy time like I imagine Jesus and his 12 homies did. We might get around to a discussion on how the LDS "revelation" does or does not jibe with establshed precedent. I might stand to learn something. In fact am sure of it.
A really stooopid reply to you, here, would be to start a Bible bash in writing and on social media. Then we each lay down the law and start calling each other epithets. That form of communication is/.....
Need I say more?
I just know the Wesley brothers were stellar worshippers of Christ. Of stellar intelligence and good will AND musical talent/training. I would not trade the hymn
"Lo, He Comes in Clouds
Descending"
for love, money, or all the tea in China. Hmm...Maybe only my own "Come Come Ye Saints" comes close to the renewal I feel when I play (pipe organ) or sing "Lo."
Much fraternal love,
Mark (Arizona Apache Co.)
@@markbell9973The phrase, "Bible studies", is often employed by people who are inviting their friends, neighbors or co-workers to what what amounts to a catechism classes - someone who considers himself knowledgable telling a friend or neighbor ( or a group of friends or neighbors) that this Bible passage means this and that Bible passage means that.
I was about thirty years old before I was invited to attend Bible studies that consisted of a group of people sharing thier own insights. One thing about that group that was new to me was the "rule" that nobody say that someone else's understanding of a Bible passage was "wrong".
This gets back to one of the basic tenents of the protestant reformation - one that many people have forgotten - the priesthood of all believers. I may have studied the Bible for sixty years and I may have studied the history of theology more than most of my neighbors but, if I think that means I can't learn from people who haven't studied those thingd as much as I have, I might be tempted to represent myself as THE authority in my neighborhood.
The older I get the more I detest dogmatism. I think one of the reasons young people are avoiding institutional religion is precicely because they would prefer to read for themselves, study for themselves and think for themselves. We who have studied the Bible more than they have can offer insights that can help to avoid certain kinds of assumptions but to imply that our way of understanding some facit of the Biblical text is the only "correct" way to understand it just insn't attractive to many young people in the twenth-first century.
Thank you.
Reap what you sow. Go against the scriptures God's Laws many are gonna leave the Methodist new wave acceptance
I find it perplexing that some pastors and churches who have left the United Methodist Church (UMC) maintain their stance in accepting the ordination of female pastors while simultaneously opposing homosexuality based on biblical teachings. This seems contradictory and raises questions about their consistency in interpreting scripture.
That is the dilemma - there is a reason conservative churches have held a consensus on this issue throughout history.
3:35 "Who Has The Final World". That should be an easy answer: salvation "by faith alone" through Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice, which connects us to the Holy Spirit, which gives us the Breath of Life to speak God's Word. Why this has caused a split in the church is a product of other spiritual issues in the US (and abroad) that are tearing people of faith apart throughout many denominations of different religious faiths. The UMC is just the latest in that "schism", but it's a terrible shame to see a denomination that truly exalts the "by faith alone" ethos taking such a divided road...in the end, we're ALL God's children, regardless of your politics. God's COMMANDS us to love all people as we love our own brothers and sisters. That commandment is incompatible with homophobia, and conservatives need to "wake up" to the reality (that Methodists should "fundamentally" know, if they are god-honest "true believers") that the Holy Spirit informs ALL of these "far left" decisions. One can leave room for such "unorthodox" churches to exists will not tearing apart the framework/structure of the UMC...and yet it happened anyway 😕
the problem begins precisely with the notion that Scripture is 'the' authority
If not Scripture, then what?
@@jeffdollar1646 Just excellent. You've earned another subscriber. Thank you for the vid!
"By Faith Alone" reflecting on the message of Jesus Christ and his Sacrifice, which connects us to the Holy Spirit. Christ's Kingdom will never come to you if you dwell upon ancients texts, without reflecting on the Holy Spirit, who speaks to us right NOW! @@jeffdollar1646