After Kash started the the ritual he said that the matron of raven is blocking the ritual because they are in her temple,which make sense since she is associated with death,and you can see her breaking the ritual with her finger so that is why the ritual didn't work until Vax made the deal.
Exactly!! I think that was such a smart change because it leaves things flexible for the future. The Matron definitely was the one stopping it from working, and though I did interpret the eventual success as her just stepping back to allow the ritual to work on its own, it is possible she also actively helped it work. I brushed over it in the vid (this is my solo account haha, i made this vid for polychrome), but this ambiguity allows any future rituals Kash performs to still be tense. We know he can do it, but without the Matron of Ravens there actively saying yes or no, we don't know if he can ALWAYS do it. They did, after all, make a big deal about how difficult the ritual would be before it happened, and Kash was pretty impressed with himself afterwards when it worked. Keeps things tense for those who haven't seen the original campaign!
@@d4s0n282 I think you’re right. I also think the fact that she’s the one who both stopped the spell from originally working and then ultimately let Vex return means that we can’t know if Kash would have been successful without her interference. I suspect yes, it looked like things were going well before the Matron showed up, but it keeps juuuuust enough doubt for resurrections to seem (to the audience) difficult to pull off. I dig it.
Everybody saying they want "Keyfish" because it was so funny because it was so pointless need to remember that it *was* also pointless. Yes, that's why it was funny. But that doesn't make it any less pointless. They didn't do the Sun Tree's voice for the same reason of it being to jarring with the theme they were going after.
Have to say, as someone who's casually been picking up interest in Critical Role by watching fan-made animatics, clips, and a few episodes in campaign 3, I really appreciate the care with all the spoiler warnings given by Mary and people in the comments here. Thanks, you thoughtful Critters!
they did such a good decision with Grog vs. Craven Edge I'm fairly confident that the writers have a solid plan in place going forward. SPOILER SPACE The Keyfish scene is funny, but I think the Trickfoot clan story beat is one very likely to hit the cutting room floor. Then again, it's an iconic moment - they made a shirt! - and animated Keyleth has a lot of goodwill and won't get the Marisha hate response we saw far too often (but then, I'm in the camp that Matt adjudicated it wrong, especially based on Kyle Hill's math for the terminal velocity of a goldfish. But I'm also in the camp that it was funny as hell.) I think Scanlan has to die. "Fix him" to me is an even stronger moment than "I should have told you, it's yours". They don't have to have Percy die a second time against Raishan, just grievously wounded, but the gnome has to go. I'm guessing A Bard's Lament will be in the second, possibly third, act of S3E12, with possibly the introduction of Taryon as what they leave us on. "Little elf girl" indeed.
SPOILERS . . . . . It does feel like the Trickfoot clan story is cuttable, but keyfish can be translated to after nearly any fight i think. i do hope they find a way to make it work, i love it so much, and it's so wild to me that Marisha gets hate for what feels like such classic D&D shenanigans (but i also don't understand any of the hate Marisha gets so). I think even Matt said he realized after that he technically adjudicated it wrong, but i'm fine with it because a) it seems a bit absurd that there's a power level you can reach where literally throwing yourself off a cliff will be fine without even a little intervention, and b) rule of funny, absolutely im in that camp as well haha. perhaps i'd feel differently if the resurrection went poorly, but as it is, it is truly one of the most memorable moments. I have SUCH a clear memory of where i was and what i was doing when this happened live haha, and i was basically mirroring Liam in that i was in disbelief / thought it was hilarious, but was also panicking a little like wait wait WAIT what if this STICKS?? "Fix him" gets me every time, and it's a great juxtaposition to Scanlan's claims that no one cares about him later. I think they could still make "fix him" work with an unconscious and dying but not dead Scanlan, but it's hard to say if they could pull it off as effectively. Absolutely agree that Percy doesn't have to die in the Raishan fight, it felt more like a grievous wound than a death even in the original. I do hope they keep him waking up to Vex kissing his face all over though, that was a nice little moment (they don't NEED to keep it, i just like it haha).
not included: the take where i had to stop for a minute because just THINKING about a specific Critical Role scene almost made me cry oops anyway gotta go watch the new tlovm episodes now byeeee
I am hoping as well that the fight between Ripley and VM will be kept as is. Not only because Percy's death provides an outlet for Perc'ahlia but to show that VM has changed and that they are a family. Ripley's death is the most gruesome I could imagine and at this point in the animated series, she deserves nothing less. Keyfish death can be like a dream scenario LOL
The change they made to Grog/Pike has worked so well. It makes both that event, and the Earthbreaker Groon fight, much more important than they were in the game. Actually becoming lasting parts of his story arc rather than just cool moments. SPOILERS for campaigns 1 and 2: Percy: My guess is that they will move the events from Glintshore to the Umbrasyl fight. In a campaign, we know that it's the luck of the dice. But I don't see how in the show you go from beating an ancient dragon to getting killed by a group of mercs. But Ripley fighting with a dragon could give this season the same bittersweet ending 1 had. The dragon and Ripley are dead, but so is Percy. Scanlan: That won't change. Part of the reason he leaves is because he died, breaking the promise he made to Kaylee. Anyway, he'll die, be brought back, and then leave with her, just like in the show. Keyfish: No, it doesn't add anything story-wise, but it's an iconic moment. I think they'll play up the comedy. "Here's this coin I created. It took me months to craft it, gathering ingredients from all over Exandria. Hopefully it will serve you well." Keyleth immediately after: 🐡🍣🩸 Queue the Arrested Development theme song. 😁 That takes us into Vax's death with something of an expectation that death is kind of cheap, which makes him being perma-dead far more impactful. And depending on if they do the M9 series concurrently with TLoVM, we could get two perma-deaths in the same season.
So agree about Grog/Pike!! (this is my solo youtube account, i made this video for polychrome.) And great observation about the Earthbreaker Groon fight, they have really set this up to be the culmination of that which is, as you say, an awesome way to make it an arc instead of two separate events. SPOILERS for campaings 1&2 . . . . Re Percy: Ohhhhh that is so smart!! Glintshore and Umbrasyl were so firmly separate events in my mind that i didn't even consider that that's what they were setting up with teaming up Ripley and Umbrasyl, but of course! Good catch, I bet you're right. Re Scanlan: I still go back and forth on this - i think there's probably ways to make a really bad close call as effective, i just don't know how haha - but at the end of the day it does make the most sense for him to die and that still be the final reason to leave. I think the more we see of him and Kaylie, the better an idea i'll have of what they might do. Re Keyfish: Right?? It's SO iconic!! They have to do it SOMEHOW haha, at the very least a strong nod to it. I like your idea, playing it as a comedic undercut of the usual drama of death, similar to the original. I hadn't considered them leaning into the death-is-cheap problem and using it to punch us with Vax's permadeath even harder, that's a good point, great way to make that problem a strength. Also, interesting point about M9 possibly happening concurrently.
I’d argue, if Percy does die, they absolutely cannot cliffhanger on Percy’s death. They cliffhangered Keyleth in S1 in a way that implied she might die to show only watchers, they cliff hangered Vex, and they did it again with Pike all effectively back to back. If Percy dies, they can’t leave it hanging as A; No ones going to believe it at this point, and B; an off the bat resurrection next season, after three seeming fakeouts already, will just immediately junk all tension in the story right out of the gate. I’d prefer if Ripley actually wounds Percy, or even someone else in VM, and then gets away, setting up the ambush as a future event. She may be human but she was always one of C1’s most dangerous adversaries and i think that can work in the show as well.
@@troikas3353 SPOILERS: . . . . . . Also good points. I suspect they will cliffhanger Percy's death, but you're right that it's a big risk if they want to keep death a credible threat. they might have something up their sleeve to raise the stakes, probably something with Orthax, but putting some space between the Keyleth, Vex, and Pike deaths/near deaths would be helpful. I agree that Ripley is a credible threat even compared to dragons, especially with the weight the show is giving to vestiges' power, but i think combining the Umbrasyl/Ripley fights would have less to do with that and more to do with saving time. that said, they save a bit of time even if Ripley gets away from the umbrasyl fight because vox machina can learn she's got a vestige during it and will therefore know to pursue her immediately, so they may do what you're thinking too.
My idea for translating Keyleth's goldfish death. is that They make a big deal about the resurrection coin that Taryon gives them, instead of just being something he can make with some difficulty they make it a super rare/one of a kind thing that can guarantee a second chance at life and talk it up like they're going to save it for some big fight and then they end up having to waste it by the end of the same episode because of Keyleth's cliff dive. And instead of her turning into a fish in a moment of panic have it look like she's aimed right for the water but the tide goes out at the very last second, after she's already confidently turned into a fish.
Spoilers: So many of the deaths can be written around, as we saw with Vex in the tomb and Grog with Craven Edge, they're just deaths and as far as the greater story goes they can achieve the same thing with a similar but different plot point. For example, I can see Scanlan promising Kaylee that he'll stay safe, rather than not die, and if/when she sees/hears about him being taken to death saves, rather than true death, that becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back in the show. Similarly for Vex's confession to Percy, there are countless ways around that. I could see a series where the only deaths are Vex and Vax, but then again, I really want to see Keyfish animated. Just such a good way to ground characters before going into the final arc, to remind them that not only does death exist, if you fuck around too much you'll die at the bottom of a cliff with most of your friends too far away to help and "basically gods" can still be killed. Good juxtaposition, and doesn't quite work right if she doesn't go splat.
Spoilers: . . . . . . yeah, my thoughts were similar, i think they can work around most of the deaths. i agree with Scanlan, we have yet to see how they'll adapt his relationship with Kaylie so they could still go a few directions, it's part of why im holding off making predictions there. also agree about Percy's death having workarounds, it's mostly a personal thing for me: that scene is, like, a core memory haha, i have a hard time imagining how it reaches the same intensity if he's not dead. BUT. just because i have a hard time imagining it doesn't mean it's not possible, and the best thought i have is if they don't have Percy die they instead somehow use orthax's claim on Percy's soul to make it reach the same intensity.
I'm sure most of y'all have seen all of campaign 1 but SPOILERS I'm pretty certain Percy's death and Vax's disintegration will be kept. All other deaths will be near death experiences.
Spoilers: . . . . No, seriously, SPOILERS, MAJOR MAJOR SPOILERS! . . . . . I disagree. Scanlan's death is important to the character. Specifically, that he promised Kaylee he wouldn't die, and not only did he die, but the team brought her in to help resurrect him, is why he leaves. That will definitely be a death. Keyfish, I think that could go either way. On the one hand, it doesn't have to be a full death. On the other, if it were, it helps increase the impact of Vax's later. "Look at us, we laugh in the face of death. 'We're basically gods.'" And then wham.
@@cryofpaine SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . i'm still torn, i think it will depend how Scanlan and Kaylie's relationship plays out in tlovm. her presence at his resurrection - and therefore knowing he'd died and broken his promise not to die - was one of many things that lead to him leaving, but it was specifically that he felt vox machina had ruined his chance to have a good relationship with her. if the writers find some other way for scanlan to blame vox machina for jeopardizing his parental relationship, it could still work. that said, the moment he promises kaylie he won't die in tlovm is the moment i 100% agree that he is going to die haha. Great point about Keyfish. I said it in a response to another comment, but it hadn't occurred to me that they could use keyfish making death seem cheap to their advantage, making Vax hit harder.
After Kash started the the ritual he said that the matron of raven is blocking the ritual because they are in her temple,which make sense since she is associated with death,and you can see her breaking the ritual with her finger so that is why the ritual didn't work until Vax made the deal.
Exactly!! I think that was such a smart change because it leaves things flexible for the future. The Matron definitely was the one stopping it from working, and though I did interpret the eventual success as her just stepping back to allow the ritual to work on its own, it is possible she also actively helped it work. I brushed over it in the vid (this is my solo account haha, i made this vid for polychrome), but this ambiguity allows any future rituals Kash performs to still be tense. We know he can do it, but without the Matron of Ravens there actively saying yes or no, we don't know if he can ALWAYS do it. They did, after all, make a big deal about how difficult the ritual would be before it happened, and Kash was pretty impressed with himself afterwards when it worked. Keeps things tense for those who haven't seen the original campaign!
@@quitecontrarytvpolychrome im 90% sure that the matron broke the spell, but brought her back when he swapped in
@@d4s0n282 I think you’re right. I also think the fact that she’s the one who both stopped the spell from originally working and then ultimately let Vex return means that we can’t know if Kash would have been successful without her interference. I suspect yes, it looked like things were going well before the Matron showed up, but it keeps juuuuust enough doubt for resurrections to seem (to the audience) difficult to pull off. I dig it.
Everybody saying they want "Keyfish" because it was so funny because it was so pointless need to remember that it *was* also pointless. Yes, that's why it was funny. But that doesn't make it any less pointless. They didn't do the Sun Tree's voice for the same reason of it being to jarring with the theme they were going after.
Have to say, as someone who's casually been picking up interest in Critical Role by watching fan-made animatics, clips, and a few episodes in campaign 3, I really appreciate the care with all the spoiler warnings given by Mary and people in the comments here. Thanks, you thoughtful Critters!
The whole time I was watching this all I could think was “I wonder what the writers of the show would think of this video” 🤔
😅
exciting but also TERRIFYING thought that they would find this haha
"Doesn't take long to get resurrection"
Meanwhile my playgroup who only meet 1x a month lol
Ahahaha i feel that
scanlands death/resurrectionis my favorrite moment from c1. the pieces are so easy to assemble and the resolution is soo bittersweet.
It’s such a perfect storm!
they did such a good decision with Grog vs. Craven Edge I'm fairly confident that the writers have a solid plan in place going forward.
SPOILER SPACE
The Keyfish scene is funny, but I think the Trickfoot clan story beat is one very likely to hit the cutting room floor. Then again, it's an iconic moment - they made a shirt! - and animated Keyleth has a lot of goodwill and won't get the Marisha hate response we saw far too often (but then, I'm in the camp that Matt adjudicated it wrong, especially based on Kyle Hill's math for the terminal velocity of a goldfish. But I'm also in the camp that it was funny as hell.)
I think Scanlan has to die. "Fix him" to me is an even stronger moment than "I should have told you, it's yours". They don't have to have Percy die a second time against Raishan, just grievously wounded, but the gnome has to go. I'm guessing A Bard's Lament will be in the second, possibly third, act of S3E12, with possibly the introduction of Taryon as what they leave us on. "Little elf girl" indeed.
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It does feel like the Trickfoot clan story is cuttable, but keyfish can be translated to after nearly any fight i think. i do hope they find a way to make it work, i love it so much, and it's so wild to me that Marisha gets hate for what feels like such classic D&D shenanigans (but i also don't understand any of the hate Marisha gets so). I think even Matt said he realized after that he technically adjudicated it wrong, but i'm fine with it because a) it seems a bit absurd that there's a power level you can reach where literally throwing yourself off a cliff will be fine without even a little intervention, and b) rule of funny, absolutely im in that camp as well haha. perhaps i'd feel differently if the resurrection went poorly, but as it is, it is truly one of the most memorable moments. I have SUCH a clear memory of where i was and what i was doing when this happened live haha, and i was basically mirroring Liam in that i was in disbelief / thought it was hilarious, but was also panicking a little like wait wait WAIT what if this STICKS??
"Fix him" gets me every time, and it's a great juxtaposition to Scanlan's claims that no one cares about him later. I think they could still make "fix him" work with an unconscious and dying but not dead Scanlan, but it's hard to say if they could pull it off as effectively. Absolutely agree that Percy doesn't have to die in the Raishan fight, it felt more like a grievous wound than a death even in the original. I do hope they keep him waking up to Vex kissing his face all over though, that was a nice little moment (they don't NEED to keep it, i just like it haha).
Dang, had to tap out for potential spoilers.
not included: the take where i had to stop for a minute because just THINKING about a specific Critical Role scene almost made me cry oops
anyway gotta go watch the new tlovm episodes now byeeee
That can be a short vid at some point 😂
I am hoping as well that the fight between Ripley and VM will be kept as is. Not only because Percy's death provides an outlet for Perc'ahlia but to show that VM has changed and that they are a family. Ripley's death is the most gruesome I could imagine and at this point in the animated series, she deserves nothing less. Keyfish death can be like a dream scenario LOL
Exactly my thoughts, yeah!! Keyfish as a dream is a funny way to do it haha
The change they made to Grog/Pike has worked so well. It makes both that event, and the Earthbreaker Groon fight, much more important than they were in the game. Actually becoming lasting parts of his story arc rather than just cool moments.
SPOILERS for campaigns 1 and 2:
Percy: My guess is that they will move the events from Glintshore to the Umbrasyl fight. In a campaign, we know that it's the luck of the dice. But I don't see how in the show you go from beating an ancient dragon to getting killed by a group of mercs. But Ripley fighting with a dragon could give this season the same bittersweet ending 1 had. The dragon and Ripley are dead, but so is Percy.
Scanlan: That won't change. Part of the reason he leaves is because he died, breaking the promise he made to Kaylee. Anyway, he'll die, be brought back, and then leave with her, just like in the show.
Keyfish: No, it doesn't add anything story-wise, but it's an iconic moment. I think they'll play up the comedy. "Here's this coin I created. It took me months to craft it, gathering ingredients from all over Exandria. Hopefully it will serve you well."
Keyleth immediately after: 🐡🍣🩸
Queue the Arrested Development theme song. 😁
That takes us into Vax's death with something of an expectation that death is kind of cheap, which makes him being perma-dead far more impactful.
And depending on if they do the M9 series concurrently with TLoVM, we could get two perma-deaths in the same season.
So agree about Grog/Pike!! (this is my solo youtube account, i made this video for polychrome.) And great observation about the Earthbreaker Groon fight, they have really set this up to be the culmination of that which is, as you say, an awesome way to make it an arc instead of two separate events.
SPOILERS for campaings 1&2
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Re Percy: Ohhhhh that is so smart!! Glintshore and Umbrasyl were so firmly separate events in my mind that i didn't even consider that that's what they were setting up with teaming up Ripley and Umbrasyl, but of course! Good catch, I bet you're right.
Re Scanlan: I still go back and forth on this - i think there's probably ways to make a really bad close call as effective, i just don't know how haha - but at the end of the day it does make the most sense for him to die and that still be the final reason to leave. I think the more we see of him and Kaylie, the better an idea i'll have of what they might do.
Re Keyfish: Right?? It's SO iconic!! They have to do it SOMEHOW haha, at the very least a strong nod to it. I like your idea, playing it as a comedic undercut of the usual drama of death, similar to the original. I hadn't considered them leaning into the death-is-cheap problem and using it to punch us with Vax's permadeath even harder, that's a good point, great way to make that problem a strength. Also, interesting point about M9 possibly happening concurrently.
I’d argue, if Percy does die, they absolutely cannot cliffhanger on Percy’s death. They cliffhangered Keyleth in S1 in a way that implied she might die to show only watchers, they cliff hangered Vex, and they did it again with Pike all effectively back to back.
If Percy dies, they can’t leave it hanging as A; No ones going to believe it at this point, and B; an off the bat resurrection next season, after three seeming fakeouts already, will just immediately junk all tension in the story right out of the gate.
I’d prefer if Ripley actually wounds Percy, or even someone else in VM, and then gets away, setting up the ambush as a future event. She may be human but she was always one of C1’s most dangerous adversaries and i think that can work in the show as well.
@@troikas3353 SPOILERS:
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Also good points. I suspect they will cliffhanger Percy's death, but you're right that it's a big risk if they want to keep death a credible threat. they might have something up their sleeve to raise the stakes, probably something with Orthax, but putting some space between the Keyleth, Vex, and Pike deaths/near deaths would be helpful. I agree that Ripley is a credible threat even compared to dragons, especially with the weight the show is giving to vestiges' power, but i think combining the Umbrasyl/Ripley fights would have less to do with that and more to do with saving time. that said, they save a bit of time even if Ripley gets away from the umbrasyl fight because vox machina can learn she's got a vestige during it and will therefore know to pursue her immediately, so they may do what you're thinking too.
So the animated series is the stories from when they were playing Pathfinder. The pre Craghammer arc. Except without Orion
My idea for translating Keyleth's goldfish death. is that They make a big deal about the resurrection coin that Taryon gives them, instead of just being something he can make with some difficulty they make it a super rare/one of a kind thing that can guarantee a second chance at life and talk it up like they're going to save it for some big fight and then they end up having to waste it by the end of the same episode because of Keyleth's cliff dive. And instead of her turning into a fish in a moment of panic have it look like she's aimed right for the water but the tide goes out at the very last second, after she's already confidently turned into a fish.
Yesss, great, love seeing ideas on how they can keep this truly iconic moment
Spoilers:
So many of the deaths can be written around, as we saw with Vex in the tomb and Grog with Craven Edge, they're just deaths and as far as the greater story goes they can achieve the same thing with a similar but different plot point.
For example, I can see Scanlan promising Kaylee that he'll stay safe, rather than not die, and if/when she sees/hears about him being taken to death saves, rather than true death, that becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back in the show. Similarly for Vex's confession to Percy, there are countless ways around that.
I could see a series where the only deaths are Vex and Vax, but then again, I really want to see Keyfish animated. Just such a good way to ground characters before going into the final arc, to remind them that not only does death exist, if you fuck around too much you'll die at the bottom of a cliff with most of your friends too far away to help and "basically gods" can still be killed. Good juxtaposition, and doesn't quite work right if she doesn't go splat.
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yeah, my thoughts were similar, i think they can work around most of the deaths. i agree with Scanlan, we have yet to see how they'll adapt his relationship with Kaylie so they could still go a few directions, it's part of why im holding off making predictions there. also agree about Percy's death having workarounds, it's mostly a personal thing for me: that scene is, like, a core memory haha, i have a hard time imagining how it reaches the same intensity if he's not dead. BUT. just because i have a hard time imagining it doesn't mean it's not possible, and the best thought i have is if they don't have Percy die they instead somehow use orthax's claim on Percy's soul to make it reach the same intensity.
I'm sure most of y'all have seen all of campaign 1 but SPOILERS
I'm pretty certain Percy's death and Vax's disintegration will be kept.
All other deaths will be near death experiences.
I DID NOT NEED TO KNOW THISSSSSSSSS!!!! COME ON MAN!!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I am inclined to agree!!
@@xelaander8429 I did put SPOILERS and hid the information.
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No, seriously, SPOILERS, MAJOR MAJOR SPOILERS!
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I disagree. Scanlan's death is important to the character. Specifically, that he promised Kaylee he wouldn't die, and not only did he die, but the team brought her in to help resurrect him, is why he leaves. That will definitely be a death.
Keyfish, I think that could go either way. On the one hand, it doesn't have to be a full death. On the other, if it were, it helps increase the impact of Vax's later. "Look at us, we laugh in the face of death. 'We're basically gods.'" And then wham.
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i'm still torn, i think it will depend how Scanlan and Kaylie's relationship plays out in tlovm. her presence at his resurrection - and therefore knowing he'd died and broken his promise not to die - was one of many things that lead to him leaving, but it was specifically that he felt vox machina had ruined his chance to have a good relationship with her. if the writers find some other way for scanlan to blame vox machina for jeopardizing his parental relationship, it could still work. that said, the moment he promises kaylie he won't die in tlovm is the moment i 100% agree that he is going to die haha.
Great point about Keyfish. I said it in a response to another comment, but it hadn't occurred to me that they could use keyfish making death seem cheap to their advantage, making Vax hit harder.