Consider machining calculated holes in each "layer" of foam, that way when they are all done you can slide a length of tubing into the holes to align all of the layers automatically.
Definitely a great idea!!! to be completely honest.. I was just too lazy.. there is an extra 1/8" of material on the surface as I plan to sand it all back down to nominal so I don't need it to be perfect.. none the less.. It would have been some really good "insurance".. Thanks!
Its looking great. Youre an inspiration for me. Ive wanted to build an airplane for years now and I'm getting close to being able to do it, just a few years away. Watching you progress in your project is very encouraging. Remember its about progress, not perfection, you will get there.
For me, there is no better feeling than getting comments like these! I am honored to be able to inspire people to build things! I am nothing special and this helicopter was a BIG reach for me, so set your goals and let nothing get in your way form achieving them!
Love the learning experience in making this but cannot believe no one has stopped you from this project. As the owner of a XE285 I can tell you that you will not want one ounce of aft weight as your not a heavy guy and you will already need to add a lot of FORWARD weight to try and get your CofG correct. Most have lead on the coaming or floors and this is performance killing weight. Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm take this how you want. You will love your Mossie when finished.
@@jamesveall7352 I fully appreciate you bringing this to my attention! I’m taking every measure possible to minimize the weight of the cowling AND move other things forward to account for the aft CG. The cowling will only weigh about 6-10 lbs… and the cg of that weight will be about 10-12 inches behind the mast. Worst case it’s 10 ft lbs. This is also a big reason I’m designing my seat. It’s going to put me in a reclined position and move my cg forward a few inches. I only need to move my cg forward 1.5” to balance out the weight.. not to mention my carbon seat is now less than half the weight of the original seat. The only way to get an extremely light carbon part is to do vacuum infusion… but that requires a female mold… 100% the reason I’m going through this insane amount of work to make these molds. There are far easier ways to make a carbon part…. I feel like I’ve thought of a lot, but people like you have already pointed out things I haven’t. I really appreciate you bringing anything and everything to my attention :) I’ve also got other things in mind to increase performance… but those we will get into at a later date.
Great job so far ! I am really enjoying the progress. Also great idea for the Mosquito, I love the looks of the 500, always been my favorite helicopter. I have wanted a Mosquito for a long time but ended up doing a ground up restoration on a ‘52 Hiller and am currently flying that. Good luck 👍🏼
If you cut some index holes in the corners of the foam with the mill and have some removable pins coming up from the bed, you can flip the foam over and put it on the pins to re index the foam.then mill the other side of the foam for the tail section. just do the same in cad when you run the toolpath. Its looking great really enjoying watching.
Thanks! I’m really just being lazy and trying to get as close as I can with the least amount of effort. I fully plan on having to hand shape this whole thing so the foam not being perfect isn’t a big deal. I just need positive material. I’m going to slowly add more effort to that section till I come up with something I like. 2 sided machining might be the end solution.
At the hardware store there are some silicone glue brushes. Those are really good for spreading the glue out to get more even coverage across the sheets.
To temporarily bond those small fillets to the fuselage first cover the fuselage with masking tape around the area required. Then use a polyurethane adhesive/ mastic like Sikaflex to bond them to it . Technically you are then only bonding to the tape itself and there is no damage to the airframe. You can also use this method for making quick and simple molds/ patterns from grp or dummy flanges for split lines . 👍
I truly appreciate that! To be honest, I thought the channel would do okay, but it has exceeded my expectations by far! I'm just trying to keep up with weekly uploads!! haha
You stacking them all up looks like an Awesome dog house. LOL looks Awesome on the heli. Maybe fallow the bottom of the fuse line? Never mind I watched the whole video. Looks Amazing!!
Really enjoying your videos...not sure where around Cleveland you are...I live in Missouri now but grew up in Westlake Ohio. I remember working with fiberglass and learned when sanding..wear long sleeves...
Great job on the build! It’s really coming together nicely. Just a heads-up- @BisforBuild used spackle to refine the shape of his Lamborghini bodykit before molding, and he regretted it because it was really hard to sand, and the final shape wasn’t as smooth as he wanted.
mill a negative form of your fuselage. hold the positive form (from your second try, the one that's okay outside) inside with double face tape. Then mill the face that goes against the fuselage. Any CNC job takes ways less time than sanding loads of filler
You’re on track man👍 If you haven’t run across my cowl build, you might check that out. I didn’t take it as far as you are planning on with making molds from the foam, but rather I just pulled parts from the foam as the mold. It doesn’t produce as nice of a finished product and they do weigh more since I can’t debulk the layup as the foam isn’t strong enough to pull a vacuum on top of. Can’t wait to see how it turns out sir.
@@Project2Aero I’m very familiar with your build and cowl. I’m subscribed on my personal channel. I’ll also subscribe on this one. I really liked how you made the internal bracing and considered putting some of that into mine… full credit to you on that one! I really liked that solution.
@ I thought you might be. There isn’t a ton of people making content on this kind of thing. I am enjoying seeing your little “little bird” come together so far. Keep up the good work!
with most of my decisions, they usually prioritize laziness and productivity.. as things don't work with the least amount of effort, I sprinkle in more till they do.. I think 3D printing is next....
Aesthetically pleasing certainly. I'm watching to learn techniques and create ideas which can hopefully be utilized. At first thought, using the drywall mud sounds horrific to me. It is not good in more ways then I care to express - absolutely dreadful! Would not there be something more suitable? I don't know about foam compatibility and such but I've been quite pleased with microlight fairing compounds such as Feather-flex. Mixing an epoxy with microlight or other lightweight flox sounds more appropriate at first thought. That said, the big voids would probably benefit from a light structural filler having strands. Looking forward to observing a successful project.
All great points.. the drywall mud will only serve as a filler and is similar in hardness and density as the foam. Everything will be covered in fiberglass and epoxy, then finished again with fairing compound before finally covered in primer. I just need something to generate the shape. People have done this with expanding foam as well... it'll all work as long as you cover it with something structural... (I say all this knowing full well that I haven't actually tried it yet so take it for what it is worth HAHA) Thanks for the suggestions! I might end up needing to use them...
Definitely a good idea… I was planning on having to shape the whole mold so accuracy wasn’t that important. There is actually an extra .2” of foam from the actual model surface that I’m going to have to sand away.
I had an issue when machining nylon once. The end mill catches and/or vibrates the material cutting pulling it into the endmill or pushing it away. This is probably why some delaminated. I had to take shallower cuts and the finish pass after each step instead of at the end. This may help with the foam. Have you tried sheet wax instead of blue tape? It’s made for that kind of operation on building up thickness and produces a smoother surface than tape.
That did happen actually… one of my pieces at the top has a 2” chunk out of it. And of course it happened on the final pass…. I haven’t even heard of sheet wax… I’ll definitely look into it! Thanks!
pavers.. great idea lugging them down in the basement, if only you had a vacuum pump you could have bagged them all in one big stack - well for the first lamination at least
Wrapping the male foam plug shape in clear wide packaging tape then wax the surface will provide a good enough release. Epoxy only not polyester can be used on this type of foam.
any thought to putting a air scoop in the front of the cowling in that void spot instead of filling them in? no idea if that makes sense aerodynamically, just could be a nice looking way to avoid all the filler pieces
I thought about it early on.. then abandoned it.. but might actually revisit now that you mentioned it. I also had a buddy reach out with a pretty big 3D printer.... that might also end up being a decent solution to all this.
Car #69s body mold was 1/4" plywood, 2" foam between plywood transitions, theb drywall mud and primer. It worked for a one time use mold. Theres probably photos floating around on my external HD from 15 years ago lol
Who is this? Our car was Dirty #30.. The only down side I can see to using drywall mud right now is how long it'll take to dry if i need big parts filled. It'll all be covered in glass once it's shaped so I'm not worried about pores or anything like that.
Great job! I have a question for you. What software are you using for design and running the CNC. I’m about to start a fuse project for a speed helicopter. Want to do something similar with a foam plug and carbon.
I use the KiriMoto(CAM) plugin for OnShape(CAD) to generate the G-Code. You should be able to load that G-Code into whatever controller you are using. I was lucky enough to get Mach3 CNC with the CNC router which runs the CNC. GRBL is another popular free one. Check out the OpenBuilds website. You should be able to find everything you need there! I also LOVE OnShape for a free CAD software. If you aren't using it, you should :)
Looking good, I can not comment on your blue tape. From experience, I do know parcel tape does work. I assume you know about long boards for the sanding the mold.
Parcel tape works best for sure! I had some issues with gelcoat sticking to it which created some problems.. blue tape works good but not near as good as parcel tape. I'll probably do a little test run before the real thing. Don't ever assume I know what i am doing haha! I would much prefer you point out something that i might know.. than to not point out something that I didn't.. :) Always appreciate the feedback!
@@TheOkayestEngineer Your desire and willingness to learn is commendable. You'll have to change your name to TheGoodestEngineer when this project is complete.
haha! Thanks!! I'm addicted to learning.. and I realized a long time ago if you're not ready to learn from even the most unexpected sources, you'll miss some of the most important lessons. "If you want to go somewhere fast, go alone. If you want to go somewhere far, go together"
I don’t know if you could benefit from a hot wire cutter, but I’ve seen model aircraft builders use them for wing ribs. It might help on trimming the outside of pieces. Personally, I think your idea is cool, but I am an old guy with less time left in my life. If you enjoy building that is great, but time spent building is less time spent flying and the original manufacturer already designed it to fly well as is. Just a geezer’s perspective. Cool project! You really are a pretty damn okay engineer!
Someone once asked Mike Patey if he liked flying or building more.. he replied by saying he couldn't ever gain the number of flight hours as he has in building.. I think I am the same. Love flying.. but might actually love building more...
I spoke with Norbert and a few others about it. They cautioned me but also trusted that I would not do anything to compromise the safety of the helicopter. After all, it is in the experimental category, so that leaves it open to the builder to do whatever they want....
@ Good you asked, as they only cautioned you It would suggest they hadn't already tried it or discovered anything seriously wrong with the idea. It is experimental as you say and I think you can do as you see fit, you are a smart guy and think things through I just hope the desire to have a good looking helicopter doesn't trump function, how it looks in my opinion should not have any bearing on the decision to add a cowling, it should only be based on the improvement of flight characteristics, safety or mechanical reliability.
@ absolutely! I went over that and the CFD I did to validate the design in the last video. My first priority was to fix an instability issue… the look was just an added bonus. :)
@ yes you did but did you also run the same simulation with an increased vertical stabiliser? It could be the same result is achieved by a slightly larger vertical stabiliser. Is this the better way rather than the cowling or is the cowling the better way ? I don't know but if an increased size vertical stabiliser is the right choice then would you agree that is the one that should be implemented? Of course it the helicopter is going to be forever in you basement then no worries. 😆
Haha! With the machine already tail heavy, I worried a larger vertical stabilizer and more weight so far from the CG would be more of a concern than the added benefit of more surface area back there. The same reason I chose not to get the horizontal stabilizer.
I assume you don't have a 3D printer? Just thinking those smaller parts would be much easier to tackle vs using foam. I'm in Canada so not in the contest unless of course I could nominate someone to receive instead. I'd say Xyla Foxlin hoping for an interesting collaboration in the future.
I have an old Flashforge if that even means anything to you.. it's about 12 years old and on its last leg.. I need a new one. I actually had a buddy reach out and offer to print them for me after i posted this video.. might end up going that route. its definitely a good idea... at the time, it was just way easier and faster to throw it on the cnc router.
@@TheOkayestEngineer I'm familiar with the Flashforge name, but not with the products. A 12 year old printer is almost certainly going to give you more pain than a current one. I finally snapped and bought a new one a few months ago when things people were saying was trivial to print were things I would never even attempt on my old printer. Night and day difference. CNC with a 3 axis machine is really only going to give you 2.5D which seems to be the problem you are running into. 3D printing makes it much easier to overcome. Loving watching this whole project. One day you should do a bit of a who I am video. Your opening shots shots lead to some assumptions that you already fly an air ambulance.
I've been meaning to record a video like that.. I'll release one in the event I need another week to make a proper video. as far as the air ambulance, I wish. That one is stationed at the airport where I took my first helicopter lesson. I threw it into the intro so new viewers would quickly realize this channel is about helicopters... the early videos didn't have an intro at all.. I have no clue what I am doing... just figuring it all out as I go :)
white glue, most wood glues, work perfectly for bonding foam. light sand the foam with 80 grit to increase surface area, spread evenly, join pieces and let dry under pressure. no expanding, machines and sands easily.
@@RonDavies-r3p I’ve learned a whole lot from the scrappy cowling build! I’ll be using a lot of the same techniques actually! Full credit to him! He is an amazing fabricator.
Rather than adding a cosmetic layer to change the geometry of the fuselage to accommodate your larger drop tear design, have you mocked up what it would look like using the existing geometry? I feel like although you may have to compromise, the result may be a lot cleaner and simpler
Really enjoying the channel as a fellow experimental aircraft builder. How do you think the weight of the fairing will work out in terms of influence on the centre of gravity behind the mast head? Really enjoying watching the build
The cowling should weigh 6-10 lbs ish when done. The CG of a cone is 1/3 the height from the big end. 10 lbs 12" from the CG is 10 ft lbs. The seat should shift the pilot's CG (me at 170lbs) forward about 4 inches. ~55 ft lbs... I hope to more than make up for the difference. The 290 has a pilot weight limit of 240 lbs. That also leaves me with 70 lbs to play with.. I should be more than fine. All very very good things to point out and think about. I appreciate you asking the questions. :)
Nice buddy and should have known you’d have done the calcs! Might need some heat proofing inside the presumably carbon fibre shell but sounds like you have some good margins to work within. Looking forward to the first flight! 🤞🏻👊🏻
Yeah… I’m going to put heat sensitive stickers everywhere to see what I’m dealing with and fix things as I need to. Definitely something in the back of my mind.
Love the content! Just wanted to let you know whatever mic you used for your intro only comes through on one side of the stereo channel for audio, so it only plays in the left headphone/speaker. The only time its full stereo is when you do a voice over. So whatever wireless setup you have isnt recording in proper stereo. Maybe just change it to mono so you get audio on both tracks.
@@TheOkayestEngineer If you have the option to record in mono it will just record the same audio to both sides of the track. Might be able to do it in edit too so you can save anything you already have recorded. Its not noticable to anyone but headphone users so you are good i just wanted to let ya know! Keep it up, also with the extra like 1-2" bump on the front section, is it not a model or machine issue? That seems like a really weird extra bit of material.
I’ll try to see what I can do in iMovie. Thanks for pointing it out. I’m not sure what 2” section you’re referencing. Now I’m curious! Give me some more details.
West system epoxy and micro balloons will yield a better end result. I purchase my micro balloons through Aircraft Spruce. Nice Work! I have a Mosquito Air. Get to know Mike Messex. Great Guy, he will be a huge asset in your build, testing and flying experience.
Mike is a great guy! I reach out to him all the time. My only concern with micro is that it won’t sand like the foam will. I plan to micro after I cover it all with a sheet of fiberglass… but I’m still not sure what I am going to use to smooth out the foam
I’m fairly certain car bondo will actually eat away the polystyrene foam. I have epoxy based fairing compound but it is very hard to get a smooth surface on foam because the foam sands way faster than the fairing compound…..
@TheOkayestEngineer l vaguely remember someone trying drywall mud on a build here on UA-cam and it went seriously wrong. There's a guy building a car using the same foam let me see if l can find it I'll pass you the link.
@ b is for build… he took a slightly different approach and didn’t cover the plug in fiberglass first. I’ll do all the final bodywork with bondo after the glass is down. I used this same process on the seat mold video series.
Awesome ! A friend and old boss of mine from 40 years ago designed and built a twin rotor intermeshing helicopter in 1985. I flew in it ! 😮😊. I have a UA-cam video of the rig, its very interesting. Wishing you the best on this project . You're inspiring for all of us viewers. Search Dick Degraw Twin Rotor Helicopter if you're interested in the video. He's a helicopter genius 😁. Mike in Michigan
Do not use any type of adhesive which foams or expands when gluing the blocks together. Even with 200 pounds of weight pressing the slabs of insulation foam together the expansion will lift the blocks causing an out of square situation. Ask me how I know. Gorilla glue original is a no no. Gorilla glue which is clear is ok.
Consider machining calculated holes in each "layer" of foam, that way when they are all done you can slide a length of tubing into the holes to align all of the layers automatically.
Definitely a great idea!!! to be completely honest.. I was just too lazy.. there is an extra 1/8" of material on the surface as I plan to sand it all back down to nominal so I don't need it to be perfect.. none the less.. It would have been some really good "insurance".. Thanks!
A track saw hooked to a dust extractor is awesome for cutting foam
Nice job thinking outside the box, this series gets better and better
Nice work! Looking amazing!!! Sounds like you need to sell these molds to the MFG so you can cover some of your engineering time ;) "MD500-ish Kit"
I’ll have the molds when it is finished so it should be too much effort to duplicate. Definitely something I’ve had in the back of my mind!
Its looking great. Youre an inspiration for me. Ive wanted to build an airplane for years now and I'm getting close to being able to do it, just a few years away. Watching you progress in your project is very encouraging. Remember its about progress, not perfection, you will get there.
For me, there is no better feeling than getting comments like these! I am honored to be able to inspire people to build things! I am nothing special and this helicopter was a BIG reach for me, so set your goals and let nothing get in your way form achieving them!
I can’t tell you how much I really am enjoying this series. Thank you so much!
It's people like you that make all this hard work worth it! I'm glad you like it and hope I can keep it going!
Good job keep it up. The void under the door if you could, that would be a perfect opportunity to put a couple small storage compartments.
@@scottfrost1030 thanks! Maybe something to store a tool or some extra 2 stroke oil… great idea!
Bondo glazing and spot putty is also a great filler, for foam! Dries super fast, also! 💯
Anything polyester based will dissolve XPS foam.
I’ll look into that!
Love the learning experience in making this but cannot believe no one has stopped you from this project. As the owner of a XE285 I can tell you that you will not want one ounce of aft weight as your not a heavy guy and you will already need to add a lot of FORWARD weight to try and get your CofG correct. Most have lead on the coaming or floors and this is performance killing weight. Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm take this how you want. You will love your Mossie when finished.
@@jamesveall7352 I fully appreciate you bringing this to my attention! I’m taking every measure possible to minimize the weight of the cowling AND move other things forward to account for the aft CG. The cowling will only weigh about 6-10 lbs… and the cg of that weight will be about 10-12 inches behind the mast. Worst case it’s 10 ft lbs.
This is also a big reason I’m designing my seat. It’s going to put me in a reclined position and move my cg forward a few inches. I only need to move my cg forward 1.5” to balance out the weight.. not to mention my carbon seat is now less than half the weight of the original seat.
The only way to get an extremely light carbon part is to do vacuum infusion… but that requires a female mold… 100% the reason I’m going through this insane amount of work to make these molds. There are far easier ways to make a carbon part….
I feel like I’ve thought of a lot, but people like you have already pointed out things I haven’t. I really appreciate you bringing anything and everything to my attention :)
I’ve also got other things in mind to increase performance… but those we will get into at a later date.
Great job so far ! I am really enjoying the progress. Also great idea for the Mosquito, I love the looks of the 500, always been my favorite helicopter. I have wanted a Mosquito for a long time but ended up doing a ground up restoration on a ‘52 Hiller and am currently flying that. Good luck 👍🏼
Thanks! The Hiller doesn’t sound like a bad substitute for a mosquito! I’m enjoying this build but also can’t wait to see the final product.
If you cut some index holes in the corners of the foam with the mill and have some removable pins coming up from the bed, you can flip the foam over and put it on the pins to re index the foam.then mill the other side of the foam for the tail section. just do the same in cad when you run the toolpath. Its looking great really enjoying watching.
Thanks! I’m really just being lazy and trying to get as close as I can with the least amount of effort. I fully plan on having to hand shape this whole thing so the foam not being perfect isn’t a big deal. I just need positive material. I’m going to slowly add more effort to that section till I come up with something I like. 2 sided machining might be the end solution.
@@TheOkayestEngineer looking forward to what evolves !
Could you 3D print those "wings" that protrude forward under the doors? @ 23:30 - then just make it a bolt on part, nut-zerts or something similar?
They might already be on the printer as we speak…. But I still think I’m going to make a mold to eventually make them out of carbon.
Community engagement for the win.!!!!!
At the hardware store there are some silicone glue brushes. Those are really good for spreading the glue out to get more even coverage across the sheets.
I didn't even know silicone glue brushes existed! Definitely going to check it out. Thanks.
To temporarily bond those small fillets to the fuselage first cover the fuselage with masking tape around the area required. Then use a polyurethane adhesive/ mastic like Sikaflex to bond them to it .
Technically you are then only bonding to the tape itself and there is no damage to the airframe.
You can also use this method for making quick and simple molds/ patterns from grp or dummy flanges for split lines . 👍
Noted! I’ll check that out for sure. Thanks!!
just a comment to show appreciation for your hard work and seemingly tireless energy, hope it helps to get this well deserving channel going!
I truly appreciate that! To be honest, I thought the channel would do okay, but it has exceeded my expectations by far! I'm just trying to keep up with weekly uploads!! haha
Looking good man !
Appreciate it!
You stacking them all up looks like an Awesome dog house. LOL looks Awesome on the heli. Maybe fallow the bottom of the fuse line? Never mind I watched the whole video. Looks Amazing!!
I think it looks real good too. Super happy with how it turned out so far!
Really enjoying your videos...not sure where around Cleveland you are...I live in Missouri now but grew up in Westlake Ohio. I remember working with fiberglass and learned when sanding..wear long sleeves...
I should stop being lazy and get a couple long sleeves… definitely worth it! Im on the east side.
SWEET 👍👍
Great job on the build! It’s really coming together nicely. Just a heads-up- @BisforBuild used spackle to refine the shape of his Lamborghini bodykit before molding, and he regretted it because it was really hard to sand, and the final shape wasn’t as smooth as he wanted.
Interesting.. I am going to do a search for that video now! Also a good excuse to subscribe to his channel too. I appreciate the suggestion!
Huge!
Hell yea brother!!
Brother!!!!
Looking good, really enjoying following along during your build!
Awesome, thank you!
mill a negative form of your fuselage. hold the positive form (from your second try, the one that's okay outside) inside with double face tape. Then mill the face that goes against the fuselage. Any CNC job takes ways less time than sanding loads of filler
You’re not wrong…. And I hate sanding! If 3D printing doesn’t work, I might try this next.
Nice job.
@@Will-No-Co thanks!
You’re on track man👍 If you haven’t run across my cowl build, you might check that out. I didn’t take it as far as you are planning on with making molds from the foam, but rather I just pulled parts from the foam as the mold. It doesn’t produce as nice of a finished product and they do weigh more since I can’t debulk the layup as the foam isn’t strong enough to pull a vacuum on top of. Can’t wait to see how it turns out sir.
@@Project2Aero I’m very familiar with your build and cowl. I’m subscribed on my personal channel. I’ll also subscribe on this one. I really liked how you made the internal bracing and considered putting some of that into mine… full credit to you on that one! I really liked that solution.
@ I thought you might be. There isn’t a ton of people making content on this kind of thing. I am enjoying seeing your little “little bird” come together so far. Keep up the good work!
You could CNC multiple sides of a piece by either rotating\flipping it or by machinig two separate pieces with a common flat surface.
with most of my decisions, they usually prioritize laziness and productivity.. as things don't work with the least amount of effort, I sprinkle in more till they do.. I think 3D printing is next....
Its looking incredible.
Thanks!
Aesthetically pleasing certainly. I'm watching to learn techniques and create ideas which can hopefully be utilized. At first thought, using the drywall mud sounds horrific to me. It is not good in more ways then I care to express - absolutely dreadful! Would not there be something more suitable? I don't know about foam compatibility and such but I've been quite pleased with microlight fairing compounds such as Feather-flex. Mixing an epoxy with microlight or other lightweight flox sounds more appropriate at first thought. That said, the big voids would probably benefit from a light structural filler having strands. Looking forward to observing a successful project.
All great points.. the drywall mud will only serve as a filler and is similar in hardness and density as the foam. Everything will be covered in fiberglass and epoxy, then finished again with fairing compound before finally covered in primer. I just need something to generate the shape. People have done this with expanding foam as well... it'll all work as long as you cover it with something structural... (I say all this knowing full well that I haven't actually tried it yet so take it for what it is worth HAHA) Thanks for the suggestions! I might end up needing to use them...
@@TheOkayestEngineer Please do bust the myth it so. 👍
You could have created a center line hole that you could use for reference when machining and reassembling the multiple segments.
Definitely a good idea… I was planning on having to shape the whole mold so accuracy wasn’t that important. There is actually an extra .2” of foam from the actual model surface that I’m going to have to sand away.
I had an issue when machining nylon once. The end mill catches and/or vibrates the material cutting pulling it into the endmill or pushing it away. This is probably why some delaminated. I had to take shallower cuts and the finish pass after each step instead of at the end. This may help with the foam.
Have you tried sheet wax instead of blue tape? It’s made for that kind of operation on building up thickness and produces a smoother surface than tape.
That did happen actually… one of my pieces at the top has a 2” chunk out of it. And of course it happened on the final pass….
I haven’t even heard of sheet wax… I’ll definitely look into it! Thanks!
pavers.. great idea lugging them down in the basement, if only you had a vacuum pump you could have bagged them all in one big stack - well for the first lamination at least
@@deuce454 where were you when I needed this!?!? Wanna help me get these pavers out now?? Man I feel dumb… haha
Wrapping the male foam plug shape in clear wide packaging tape then wax the surface will provide a good enough release. Epoxy only not polyester can be used on this type of foam.
I nearly made that mistake on my seat mold… experience only reminds us when we’ve made the same mistake twice…..
any thought to putting a air scoop in the front of the cowling in that void spot instead of filling them in? no idea if that makes sense aerodynamically, just could be a nice looking way to avoid all the filler pieces
I thought about it early on.. then abandoned it.. but might actually revisit now that you mentioned it. I also had a buddy reach out with a pretty big 3D printer.... that might also end up being a decent solution to all this.
Car #69s body mold was 1/4" plywood, 2" foam between plywood transitions, theb drywall mud and primer. It worked for a one time use mold. Theres probably photos floating around on my external HD from 15 years ago lol
Who is this? Our car was Dirty #30.. The only down side I can see to using drywall mud right now is how long it'll take to dry if i need big parts filled. It'll all be covered in glass once it's shaped so I'm not worried about pores or anything like that.
@@TheOkayestEngineer I'll never tell, bey.
@@id0ntwantanacc0unt bey. ;)
I would use this as a design study and then create a pattern that did not have to fit the fuselage and could be made more rigid
I hope it'll all make a little more sense when I get further along.
Great job! I have a question for you. What software are you using for design and running the CNC. I’m about to start a fuse project for a speed helicopter. Want to do something similar with a foam plug and carbon.
I use the KiriMoto(CAM) plugin for OnShape(CAD) to generate the G-Code. You should be able to load that G-Code into whatever controller you are using. I was lucky enough to get Mach3 CNC with the CNC router which runs the CNC. GRBL is another popular free one. Check out the OpenBuilds website. You should be able to find everything you need there! I also LOVE OnShape for a free CAD software. If you aren't using it, you should :)
Looking good, I can not comment on your blue tape. From experience, I do know parcel tape does work. I assume you know about long boards for the sanding the mold.
Parcel tape works best for sure! I had some issues with gelcoat sticking to it which created some problems.. blue tape works good but not near as good as parcel tape. I'll probably do a little test run before the real thing.
Don't ever assume I know what i am doing haha! I would much prefer you point out something that i might know.. than to not point out something that I didn't.. :) Always appreciate the feedback!
@@TheOkayestEngineer Your desire and willingness to learn is commendable. You'll have to change your name to TheGoodestEngineer when this project is complete.
haha! Thanks!! I'm addicted to learning.. and I realized a long time ago if you're not ready to learn from even the most unexpected sources, you'll miss some of the most important lessons. "If you want to go somewhere fast, go alone. If you want to go somewhere far, go together"
I don’t know if you could benefit from a hot wire cutter, but I’ve seen model aircraft builders use them for wing ribs. It might help on trimming the outside of pieces. Personally, I think your idea is cool, but I am an old guy with less time left in my life. If you enjoy building that is great, but time spent building is less time spent flying and the original manufacturer already designed it to fly well as is. Just a geezer’s perspective. Cool project! You really are a pretty damn okay engineer!
Someone once asked Mike Patey if he liked flying or building more.. he replied by saying he couldn't ever gain the number of flight hours as he has in building.. I think I am the same. Love flying.. but might actually love building more...
Very interesting video, great stuff. Have you spoken to composite FX about your cowling idea? Wondering what thoughts they have about it.
I spoke with Norbert and a few others about it. They cautioned me but also trusted that I would not do anything to compromise the safety of the helicopter. After all, it is in the experimental category, so that leaves it open to the builder to do whatever they want....
@ Good you asked, as they only cautioned you It would suggest they hadn't already tried it or discovered anything seriously wrong with the idea. It is experimental as you say and I think you can do as you see fit, you are a smart guy and think things through I just hope the desire to have a good looking helicopter doesn't trump function, how it looks in my opinion should not have any bearing on the decision to add a cowling, it should only be based on the improvement of flight characteristics, safety or mechanical reliability.
@ absolutely! I went over that and the CFD I did to validate the design in the last video. My first priority was to fix an instability issue… the look was just an added bonus. :)
@ yes you did but did you also run the same simulation with an increased vertical stabiliser? It could be the same result is achieved by a slightly larger vertical stabiliser. Is this the better way rather than the cowling or is the cowling the better way ? I don't know but if an increased size vertical stabiliser is the right choice then would you agree that is the one that should be implemented? Of course it the helicopter is going to be forever in you basement then no worries. 😆
Haha! With the machine already tail heavy, I worried a larger vertical stabilizer and more weight so far from the CG would be more of a concern than the added benefit of more surface area back there. The same reason I chose not to get the horizontal stabilizer.
why not just end the tear drop at the tail boom?
keep up the good work!
I assume you don't have a 3D printer? Just thinking those smaller parts would be much easier to tackle vs using foam.
I'm in Canada so not in the contest unless of course I could nominate someone to receive instead. I'd say Xyla Foxlin hoping for an interesting collaboration in the future.
I have an old Flashforge if that even means anything to you.. it's about 12 years old and on its last leg.. I need a new one. I actually had a buddy reach out and offer to print them for me after i posted this video.. might end up going that route. its definitely a good idea... at the time, it was just way easier and faster to throw it on the cnc router.
@@TheOkayestEngineer I'm familiar with the Flashforge name, but not with the products. A 12 year old printer is almost certainly going to give you more pain than a current one. I finally snapped and bought a new one a few months ago when things people were saying was trivial to print were things I would never even attempt on my old printer. Night and day difference.
CNC with a 3 axis machine is really only going to give you 2.5D which seems to be the problem you are running into. 3D printing makes it much easier to overcome.
Loving watching this whole project. One day you should do a bit of a who I am video. Your opening shots shots lead to some assumptions that you already fly an air ambulance.
I've been meaning to record a video like that.. I'll release one in the event I need another week to make a proper video.
as far as the air ambulance, I wish. That one is stationed at the airport where I took my first helicopter lesson. I threw it into the intro so new viewers would quickly realize this channel is about helicopters... the early videos didn't have an intro at all.. I have no clue what I am doing... just figuring it all out as I go :)
white glue, most wood glues, work perfectly for bonding foam. light sand the foam with 80 grit to increase surface area, spread evenly, join pieces and let dry under pressure. no expanding, machines and sands easily.
I might have to give this a try in a test piece the next time I have more foam to glue.
Mike Patty used expanding foam in difficult spots on Draco and hand shaped it.😊
@@RonDavies-r3p I’ve learned a whole lot from the scrappy cowling build! I’ll be using a lot of the same techniques actually! Full credit to him! He is an amazing fabricator.
Rather than adding a cosmetic layer to change the geometry of the fuselage to accommodate your larger drop tear design, have you mocked up what it would look like using the existing geometry? I feel like although you may have to compromise, the result may be a lot cleaner and simpler
Yeah… I really really don’t like that line haha.. it’s definitely a me thing… haha. I think im close…. It shouldn’t take too much more effort.
You must have the most patient wife..to allow a helicopter to be built in your owns basement!
She is pretty great!! and surprisingly the basement was her idea...
What is the reasoning for not doing two operations (face and back) on the cnc versus doing one side and then hand forming?
I’m lazy haha. I think I’m going to try 3D printing them and if that doesn’t work then I might make the part in two milling operations.
Really enjoying the channel as a fellow experimental aircraft builder. How do you think the weight of the fairing will work out in terms of influence on the centre of gravity behind the mast head? Really enjoying watching the build
The cowling should weigh 6-10 lbs ish when done. The CG of a cone is 1/3 the height from the big end. 10 lbs 12" from the CG is 10 ft lbs.
The seat should shift the pilot's CG (me at 170lbs) forward about 4 inches. ~55 ft lbs... I hope to more than make up for the difference. The 290 has a pilot weight limit of 240 lbs. That also leaves me with 70 lbs to play with.. I should be more than fine.
All very very good things to point out and think about. I appreciate you asking the questions. :)
Nice buddy and should have known you’d have done the calcs! Might need some heat proofing inside the presumably carbon fibre shell but sounds like you have some good margins to work within. Looking forward to the first flight! 🤞🏻👊🏻
Yeah… I’m going to put heat sensitive stickers everywhere to see what I’m dealing with and fix things as I need to. Definitely something in the back of my mind.
Use a hot wire cutter with a solid shape
I thought about building a hot wire… side project 87 haha. Good idea though.
Please use fire resistant resin on carbon parts anywhere near the engine area.
That will definitely be a priority! I’m also going to have to make a curing oven for the parts… side project 153….
Stuff and Things!
Love the content! Just wanted to let you know whatever mic you used for your intro only comes through on one side of the stereo channel for audio, so it only plays in the left headphone/speaker. The only time its full stereo is when you do a voice over. So whatever wireless setup you have isnt recording in proper stereo. Maybe just change it to mono so you get audio on both tracks.
Oh no…… 😥 I’ve recorded a lot with that mic… now I’m scared…. Thanks for letting me know.
@@TheOkayestEngineer If you have the option to record in mono it will just record the same audio to both sides of the track. Might be able to do it in edit too so you can save anything you already have recorded. Its not noticable to anyone but headphone users so you are good i just wanted to let ya know! Keep it up, also with the extra like 1-2" bump on the front section, is it not a model or machine issue? That seems like a really weird extra bit of material.
I’ll try to see what I can do in iMovie. Thanks for pointing it out.
I’m not sure what 2” section you’re referencing. Now I’m curious! Give me some more details.
@ do you have a discord server?
No.. but I should probably start one.. I'll do that now and get back to you...
West system epoxy and micro balloons will yield a better end result. I purchase my micro balloons through Aircraft Spruce. Nice Work! I have a Mosquito Air. Get to know Mike Messex. Great Guy, he will be a huge asset in your build, testing and flying experience.
Mike is a great guy! I reach out to him all the time.
My only concern with micro is that it won’t sand like the foam will. I plan to micro after I cover it all with a sheet of fiberglass… but I’m still not sure what I am going to use to smooth out the foam
Why not make a scoop at the bottom, rather than try to mold it so far forward in small pieces?
i feel like that existing body line is just screwing up the shape.. that's the only real reason i have..
Call me crazy but, if you were going to cut them down, why didn’t you cut them down in the garage first?
I'm not sure if you noticed the snow outside... and I am a pansy... haha
@@TheOkayestEngineer O-H
@@BoeWalls I-O!!
Don't use drywall filler! Use car bondo.
I’m fairly certain car bondo will actually eat away the polystyrene foam. I have epoxy based fairing compound but it is very hard to get a smooth surface on foam because the foam sands way faster than the fairing compound…..
@TheOkayestEngineer l vaguely remember someone trying drywall mud on a build here on UA-cam and it went seriously wrong. There's a guy building a car using the same foam let me see if l can find it I'll pass you the link.
@ b is for build… he took a slightly different approach and didn’t cover the plug in fiberglass first. I’ll do all the final bodywork with bondo after the glass is down. I used this same process on the seat mold video series.
Awesome ! A friend and old boss of mine from 40 years ago designed and built a twin rotor intermeshing helicopter in 1985. I flew in it ! 😮😊. I have a UA-cam video of the rig, its very interesting. Wishing you the best on this project . You're inspiring for all of us viewers. Search Dick Degraw Twin Rotor Helicopter if you're interested in the video. He's a helicopter genius 😁. Mike in Michigan
That sounds amazing. I’m going to search for it now!
Do not use any type of adhesive which foams or expands when gluing the blocks together. Even with 200 pounds of weight pressing the slabs of insulation foam together the expansion will lift the blocks causing an out of square situation. Ask me how I know. Gorilla glue original is a no no. Gorilla glue which is clear is ok.
A half PSI over 500 in^2 is still 250 lbs! I didn’t realize there was a difference between original and clear. Thanks for that!
We don't need to see footage of you in the basement pulling your boom off
ohhhhh but your definitely going to get it :)
Im loving this series !! I have a few ideas but idk if it’s AS9100 approved 😂😂
Fortunately it’s experimental so I can follow AS-DWIW “Do Whatever I Want”