The piston is getting hot from the steam. It doesn't touch the water because there is air gap enabled by rubber gasket. The inventor of this machine did whole test having temperature probe of the outcoming espresso as well as internal temperatures. Conclusion was it doesn't need preheating at all if you use boiling water. It's by design.
If it were mandatory that you alsolutely had to preheat the Robot that would be universally seen by buyers as a negative. How convenient that the guy who makes it says he has run tests and because he "designed" it as such preheating is not necessary. Yeah sure it doesn't. We all believe that.
@@gblan Are you not a science person or don't believe in numbers? He literally put the temperature probe in the basket and outcoming espresso. Out coming espresso was 92
How about using a milk pitcher just big enough in diameter to hold the portafilter without it sinking? Fill it full of boiling water and drop in the portafilter. Grind the coffee. Pull out the portafilter and submerge the piston in in the pitcher of hot water -- put the pitcher on a bowl to catch overflow and put saucers under the bowl to keep it raised. Dry the portafilter interior and tamp in the coffee. Remove the saucers, bowl and pitcher, do a quick wipe of the bottom of the piston, lock in the portafilter and go.
Am preheating piston with small glass of hot water two thirds full lifted up beneath the piston . Next the portafilter is lowered over the top of the kettle with it's lid temporarily removed to heat with splitter attached. The small glass of hot water is pored into the portafilter which drains back recycled into the kettle. When everything is happy and the portafilter has drained into the kettle it gets to rest in a tumbler that fits it while a wide mouth funnel on top accepts ground espresso . All of this is contigent upon locating two simple straight sided ( I prefer glass ) tumblers of suitable diameter just large enough in diameter to be functional . Am getting best results yet with twenty-seven grams espresso and water an eighth inch below the portafilter timed to pull twenty to twenty-five five seconds after first appearance of some espresso in the cups . Pressure maintained till twenty to twenty-five seconds has passed . Apparently it's possible to tighten the arms'n all however am used to it the way it is and one hand has been enough to lift while the other locks in the portafilter . Through out this pandemic this has been the morning routine and it's been a huge friend indeed .
I think that the piston only pushes air and does not directly touch the brew liquid, so it does not matter very much if it is not hot. Obviously it should not be ice cold, but room temperature won't cool the liquid. It is more important to have a very warm cup and a slightly warm basket.
If you have a robot, pull a shot and feel the piston right after. The piston gets quite hot, which implies heat transfer. For me, preheating piston is the most important part to preheat. I believe Paul Pratt that designed the robot did some recent experiments that verifies this as well. However, if you don’t taste a difference In The cup… I would totally skip this step. In addition I would imagine if you have a larger air gap(less water in basket) it probably slows transfer of heat to piston. But less water will lose its heat faster since it has less mass so the basket temp would affect it more. Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong:)
@@alexbarcovsky4319 The cup keeps the brew warm after extraction. It has no effect on extraction. The basket must not be very cold, so if your house is cold you should warm it somehow or the water will lose much of its heat and effect. Water, or just your palms is enough.
Is there any temp difference in the resulting espresso with pre-heating vs no pre heating? Any taste difference at all? I am skeptical of this as the water never really touches the piston unless it's over filled (only steam touches it, that's why it's warm after). I think we might be creating unnecessary addition steps and hassle where it's not needed, and many are blindingly following suit without testing it!
What about attaching a thin disc of food grade silicone ( good for over 200deg C ) to the underside of the piston to create a heat insulating layer? Silicone has a minuscule thermal conductivity compared to aluminum. I would guess the large-mass piston is the main component contributing to unwanted heat absorption. ( Is it possible, without compromising the water seal aspect, for Paul Pratt make an all-in-one sealing ring and underside insulator; looking much like the piston rubber on the Aeropress? )
How much of an improvement does pre-heating your piston make for your shots? Been playing around with my robot for a month or so now. I'm starting to get a feel for the pressure, and was wondering if pre-heating was a big flavor/extraction upgrade. Great vid.
I got pretty lucky! Apparently they are harder to produce and so they don’t make as many of these. I got lucky because I was just about to pull the trigger on buying one and sure enough they had some on their webpage. I ordered one and they were gone within a couple of days I think.
The bolt/pin is larger than the width of the robot head.... at least on mine. It would need spacers in my case and even then.... I’m not sure I’d want to put too much pressure on the bot. Paul may have used different size pins at various points in assembly so maybe mine just came with a longer bolt/pin?
How hot exactly does the preheated stuff needs to be? I'm planning to get a Flair but not sure about the preheating stuff. Just a tad too much work if can't get it right.
I own the signature flair and robot. For me, if travel is not an issue I think the robot is a great bet. I’ve actually simplified the preheating since this video. I now fill the Porta filter all the way to the very very very top and with the arms raised I insert the Porta filter with hot water in it to heat the piston. It saves a step or two and it gets the piston hotter. In terms of the flair, I think it makes incredibly good espresso and I totally love it for travel but for longevity, my intuition is that the robot is going to be a machine the people still want in 25 years. I think I have a slight preference for the espresso from the robot but that might be just because I want to like my robot so much. I don’t have the flair pro so I can’t say how that compares.
@@shanesettle1548 I was actually considering between Flair or 9Barista, because Robot still need the heat same with Flair. I thought if I want to save some money and go with the Flair, but then the preheat will have to be correct every time.
I like to have both hands free. Then, he proceeds to use one hand to lock in the portafiller. Lol. Your free could have held the arms. Just get a coffee mug of boiling water and hold it up under the plunger to heat it I whole of unnecessary awkwardness in this video
Totally agree. I have been using the cafelat robot for 3 years have never needed to heat up any part/s. Paul Pratt designed the machine so it does not require any preheating. No need to tie the arms up…..just practice more all will become so easy. No awkwardness required. 😂
@@worthashot9327 Yes. If your hand is cold, does the water in the pot cool faster? The logic is flawed. Better to hear the basket, ensure you move quickly, and maybe try the pour off technique for very light roasts.
Mooza0001 hey... I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I double checked with a physicist friend of mine before posting again. The piston and water and air layer will all reach equilibrium over time. The piston being metal is a good conductor with large mass and the air between is compressed making it less insulating. This should speed the process of equalizing the heat and thus reducing the water temperature faster.
The piston is getting hot from the steam. It doesn't touch the water because there is air gap enabled by rubber gasket. The inventor of this machine did whole test having temperature probe of the outcoming espresso as well as internal temperatures. Conclusion was it doesn't need preheating at all if you use boiling water. It's by design.
If it were mandatory that you alsolutely had to preheat the Robot that would be universally seen by buyers as a negative. How convenient that the guy who makes it says he has run tests and because he "designed" it as such preheating is not necessary. Yeah sure it doesn't. We all believe that.
@@gblan Are you not a science person or don't believe in numbers? He literally put the temperature probe in the basket and outcoming espresso. Out coming espresso was 92
If you watch the Cafelat assembly videos they mention that you can adjust the tightness of the arms so that they stay up. Hope that helps!
Do you have a link by chance? Thanks
@@nicid54 thank you!!!
@@worthashot9327would tightening the arms lead to excessive friction, which is likely undesirable?
What a great video. It's been a tremendous help for me. Thank you.
Thank you!
How about using a milk pitcher just big enough in diameter to hold the portafilter without it sinking? Fill it full of boiling water and drop in the portafilter. Grind the coffee. Pull out the portafilter and submerge the piston in in the pitcher of hot water -- put the pitcher on a bowl to catch overflow and put saucers under the bowl to keep it raised. Dry the portafilter interior and tamp in the coffee. Remove the saucers, bowl and pitcher, do a quick wipe of the bottom of the piston, lock in the portafilter and go.
Am preheating piston with small glass of hot water two thirds full lifted up beneath the piston . Next the portafilter is lowered over the top of the kettle with it's lid temporarily removed to heat with splitter attached. The small glass of hot water is pored into the portafilter which drains back recycled into the kettle. When everything is happy and the portafilter has drained into the kettle it gets to rest in a tumbler that fits it while a wide mouth funnel on top accepts ground espresso . All of this is contigent upon locating two simple straight sided ( I prefer glass ) tumblers of suitable diameter just large enough in diameter to be functional . Am getting best results yet with twenty-seven grams espresso and water an eighth inch below the portafilter timed to pull twenty to twenty-five five seconds after first appearance of some espresso in the cups . Pressure maintained till twenty to twenty-five seconds has passed . Apparently it's possible to tighten the arms'n all however am used to it the way it is and one hand has been enough to lift while the other locks in the portafilter . Through out this pandemic this has been the morning routine and it's been a huge friend indeed .
I have been waiting for this one.
Christopher Sheets LOL. Somehow I know that is not true but thanks for humoring me.
I think that the piston only pushes air and does not directly touch the brew liquid, so it does not matter very much if it is not hot. Obviously it should not be ice cold, but room temperature won't cool the liquid. It is more important to have a very warm cup and a slightly warm basket.
If you have a robot, pull a shot and feel the piston right after. The piston gets quite hot, which implies heat transfer.
For me, preheating piston is the most important part to preheat. I believe Paul Pratt that designed the robot did some recent experiments that verifies this as well.
However, if you don’t taste a difference In The cup… I would totally skip this step.
In addition I would imagine if you have a larger air gap(less water in basket) it probably slows transfer of heat to piston. But less water will lose its heat faster since it has less mass so the basket temp would affect it more.
Just my 2 cents. I could be wrong:)
@@shanesettle7832 thanks. No harm in trying. I have the means to measure temperature and it is only one more step in the process.
Warmping the cup? How does that impact extraction?
@@alexbarcovsky4319 The cup keeps the brew warm after extraction. It has no effect on extraction. The basket must not be very cold, so if your house is cold you should warm it somehow or the water will lose much of its heat and effect. Water, or just your palms is enough.
@@thebarak Espresso is the best when lukewarm, at least to me. I cant taste anything if its hot. I preheat everything thouroughly with thundies.
Is there any temp difference in the resulting espresso with pre-heating vs no pre heating? Any taste difference at all? I am skeptical of this as the water never really touches the piston unless it's over filled (only steam touches it, that's why it's warm after). I think we might be creating unnecessary addition steps and hassle where it's not needed, and many are blindingly following suit without testing it!
What about attaching a thin disc of food grade silicone ( good for over 200deg C ) to the underside of the piston to create a heat insulating layer? Silicone has a minuscule thermal conductivity compared to aluminum. I would guess the large-mass piston is the main component contributing to unwanted heat absorption. ( Is it possible, without compromising the water seal aspect, for Paul Pratt make an all-in-one sealing ring and underside insulator; looking much like the piston rubber on the Aeropress? )
I've thought about this also. And maybe an insulation sleeve for the portafilter to help maintain the temperature.
This guy thinks he is just too cute. Still, the idea of preheating my robot seems important enough to continue watching.
How much of an improvement does pre-heating your piston make for your shots? Been playing around with my robot for a month or so now. I'm starting to get a feel for the pressure, and was wondering if pre-heating was a big flavor/extraction upgrade. Great vid.
CrazyMTGplayer I roast pretty light so I’ve just always done it.
Have you tried a flair 58? If so can you taste a difference? Thanks
So the question I have is: buy the Flair and have $150 more to spend on grinder and coffee or is the Robot worth it? Thanks!
Hard to answer. Better to have a good grinder. You can make good espresso with either
Fyi 1zpresso jxpro is an amazing grinder if your willing to hand grind.
Where did you get the stainless version? Maybe I missed it in the video
I got pretty lucky! Apparently they are harder to produce and so they don’t make as many of these. I got lucky because I was just about to pull the trigger on buying one and sure enough they had some on their webpage. I ordered one and they were gone within a couple of days I think.
The body is not stainless steel. It’s polished (unpainted) cast aluminum.
The top can be tightened so that the arms do not drop.
The bolt/pin is larger than the width of the robot head.... at least on mine. It would need spacers in my case and even then.... I’m not sure I’d want to put too much pressure on the bot. Paul may have used different size pins at various points in assembly so maybe mine just came with a longer bolt/pin?
How hot exactly does the preheated stuff needs to be? I'm planning to get a Flair but not sure about the preheating stuff. Just a tad too much work if can't get it right.
I own the signature flair and robot. For me, if travel is not an issue I think the robot is a great bet. I’ve actually simplified the preheating since this video. I now fill the Porta filter all the way to the very very very top and with the arms raised I insert the Porta filter with hot water in it to heat the piston. It saves a step or two and it gets the piston hotter.
In terms of the flair, I think it makes incredibly good espresso and I totally love it for travel but for longevity, my intuition is that the robot is going to be a machine the people still want in 25 years.
I think I have a slight preference for the espresso from the robot but that might be just because I want to like my robot so much.
I don’t have the flair pro so I can’t say how that compares.
@@shanesettle1548 I was actually considering between Flair or 9Barista, because Robot still need the heat same with Flair. I thought if I want to save some money and go with the Flair, but then the preheat will have to be correct every time.
I like to have both hands free. Then, he proceeds to use one hand to lock in the portafiller. Lol. Your free could have held the arms.
Just get a coffee mug of boiling water and hold it up under the plunger to heat it
I whole of unnecessary awkwardness in this video
Totally agree. I have been using the cafelat robot for 3 years have never needed to heat up any part/s. Paul Pratt designed the machine so it does not require any preheating. No need to tie the arms up…..just practice more all will become so easy. No awkwardness required. 😂
If you put your hand above a boiling pot, your hand gets hot, but does the pot cool faster?
Are you referring to the piston getting hot when pulling a shot?
@@worthashot9327 Yes. If your hand is cold, does the water in the pot cool faster? The logic is flawed.
Better to hear the basket, ensure you move quickly, and maybe try the pour off technique for very light roasts.
Mooza0001 hey... I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I double checked with a physicist friend of mine before posting again. The piston and water and air layer will all reach equilibrium over time. The piston being metal is a good conductor with large mass and the air between is compressed making it less insulating. This should speed the process of equalizing the heat and thus reducing the water temperature faster.
@@worthashot9327 Now that's dedication! Thanks for that :)
gotta love when someone is wrong while using sarcasm on scientific matters
You didn't answer your question. -_-