FLAIR 58 vs CAFELAT ROBOT - Which is the Ultimate 58mm Manual Espresso?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- FREE SKILLSHARE TRIAL: skl.sh/kylerowsell10211
PATREON & Discord: / kylerowsell
Cafelat ROBOT: geni.us/YBxTBP
Flair 58: geni.us/WlHEA
Flair Pro 2: geni.us/7qx0ip
-- FEATURED LINKS --
🛒 My Coffee Bar Setup: kit.co/Kyle.Rowsell/my-coffee...
► Subscribe to 𝙎𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙙𝙖𝙧𝙩: www.Standartmag.com/Kyle
☕️ Coffee Gear I personally Use: kit.co/Kyle.Rowsell/my-coffee...
📷 CAMERA Gear: kit.co/Kyle.Rowsell/camera-gear
THIRD WAVE WATER: thirdwavewater.com/discount/K...
𝙇𝙞𝙣𝙠𝙨:
► Aeropress: geni.us/LKQ0P
► Kalita Wave: geni.us/8R8e
► Origami: geni.us/yeHtZHC
► V60: geni.us/3faIhf5
► Chemex: geni.us/CRQN
► Fellow Stagg X: geni.us/ZkO4A
OTHER LINKS
► MERCH: kylerowsell.com/collections/all
► Instagram: kyle.rowsell?ig...
► Email: Hello@Kylerowsell.com
Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
2:10 - Overview
3:52 - Giveaway
4:15 - Price
5:20 - Skillshare
6:27 - Workflow
11:04 - Build quality
12:49 - Taste
14:14 - Thermal Stability - Розваги
HEY! I'd love to hear your thoughts! Also... Click here for a FREE trail to Skillshare! Click it! skl.sh/kylerowsell10211
You said the Robot produces a bit more texture in a cup then Flair58. Is there a way to produce more texture in Flair with different brewing method, extra equipment, baskets, filters, etc.?
I've been using the Robot for 5 years now. It's a minimalist masterpiece. With the Robot, I love how the portafilter is centered in the chassis so pulling a shot keeps the Robot stable. Not so with the Flair. With the Robot every 6 months or so I replace the silicone gasket but that's it. It takes a minute. The Robot works flawlessly. The only improvement would be to move the pressure gauge behind the Robot facing upwards. The Flair's electronics and plastic bits give me a headache. More to go wrong down the line. After all of these years I'm still astonished with the Robot. "How do you improve a spoon?"
I too have a Red Robot.
The Robot is easily the fastest way to make excellent espresso for a single person - from a cold start. I can literally be drinking espresso three minutes after walking into the kitchen. No need to have the machine already warmed up, No waiting for a pre-heater. I put just enough water in my stovetop kettle to make a single shot, so the water is boiling in about the same time as it takes to weigh, grind beans and prep the basket. The basket is bigger than typical since it holds the full dose of water. This means there is plenty of room in it for WDT (de-clumping), saving the need to transfer from dosing basket to filter basket. This machine is great for someone like me who makes espresso for one shot only a few times per day. As you mention, as with other manual levers, you also get pressure profiling (manual) for incredibly cheap.
Downsides:
-The ergonomics could be better.
-- The arms are not comfortable to press at high pressures. Unforced Error: aesthetics over function
-- The gauge is small and pointing in the wrong direction. aesthetics over function again
- I wish I could use a standard distribution tool, but the basket is too deep for that. Acupuncture needles pressed into a wine cork is cheap, simple and works great for about $4.
- ? Is inability to use third party filter baskets really a downside? The stock basket is very high quality. Would any third party filter baskets really give a better result?
- learning curve is steep -- maybe not a big problem for an experienced barista, but I really felt it for my first couple of weeks.
Preheat:
No need for preheat with dark and medium roasts. Preheat is needed for very light roasts. I can do this very simply by tucking the portafilter under the lid of my cheap Ikea stovetop kettle while water is boiling. I than have to awkwardly dry the very hot portafilter, and cannot grind and prep directly into portafilter while water is boiling. Others are happy to do this, but it makes the otherwise simple workflow too complex for my taste, so I just dont use light roasts.
Pricing:
There is currently a Covid surcharge on the top-of-the-line $370 robot you reviewed, temporarily bring the price almost to the $450 you quoted. By "surcharge" I mean the only shipping option is fedex from HongKong for $78. (or buy it local with the surcharge already baked in) Presumably, shipping cost will drop when shipping options other than Fedex are available again. Also, if Cafelat offered the Robot with just the non-pressurized basket and without the beautifully cast stainless double spout that is only used with the pressurized basket, I bet he could knock off another $30-$80. Admittedly though, for now, the price is $450.
I love my Robot as a massive upgrade from the Flair Pro 2. The lack of preheating, the ease of cleanup, and just the absence of so many little parts (the dosing funnel, the piston, the brew chamber, the plastic reset plunger) make it far superior to the pro 2 IMO. Relative to the 58, harder to say, but I still appreciate the more compact size than the 58 on my countertop and the elegant “buy it for life” design, and would recommend it.
Thanks for the comment Samuel!
agreed. also very subjective but i really love how the Robot looks and dont really like the look of the flairs. or the way it presses. although i will say i love the full sized portafilter on the flair 58. almost worth it just for that since the preheating makes up for the weird pouring method
Thanks for your thoughts. I have not bought one yet! Leaning that way than leaning this way!!! Will most likely go with the Robot. While I roast my own time to stock up on beans by the way as the prices are going up. Just a thought.
Just got my flair 58! (upgraded from flair classic) There's definitely a very different aesthetic apeal between the robot and 58. As someone who likes to tinker, the lack of accessories and tools for the previous, proprietary basket size of my flair classic, (and most manual brewers like the robot) personally drove me crazy. Very happy with my purchase but now I want both😂Thanks for another great video!
Simple is best .. I bought the robot ! The handmade design and care of Paul Pratt is admirable.
I've had the Robot for almost 2 years now and I absolutely love it. You can get used to the workflow after a while and once you get the hand of it then it's just a matter of trying different settings based on your roast profile and grind setting to get incredibly good coffee. Every time I make someone a cup of coffee they're amazed by this machine since they've never seen anything like it before, and I live in Italy where espresso is a daily must!
Love that. Thanks for sharing Lulian!
Since I've got the robot, I've never wanted to buy any other coffee machines again. I used to want the high-end dual-boilers, but now I just enjoy not having to wait for the machine start up, or doing maintenance stuffs like descaling, changing screens or baskets, etc. It just works without any pampering needed (and I think it could even out-live me).
To echo this sentiment. I've got both a robot, then later a modded gaggia classic. In all honesty the maintenance and workflow of the classic makes me want to sell it every time I use it. The robot's clean up is just too simple. All you do is release the puck and rinse. For a regular espresso machine, you've got to do regular back flushing and descaling (minimum weekly if you're using it daily). You also can't really get into the boiler to really ensure that it's squeaky clean, it's really just a black box and you'll rely on many rounds of back flushing til it runs clear.
I got my robot 3 weeks ago, and I feel like I'll never need to "upgrade". I really love using it everyday. It's easy to use, has a great aesthtic, and built like a tank. When I make purchases like this I really try to buy things that will last, and this machine has a really strong "buy it for life" vibe going for it. The thing that turned me off of the flair is how they sort have made the older models without backwards compatibility in mind. Overall I have zero regrets in buying the robot 🤖
Love it. Thanks for sharing!
We love the Robot. We use it at our roastery to taste our medium and dark roast. Light Roast could benefit better from pre-heating...but again not necessary. It's a proven design from the 50s, based on the Faema Baby Faemina, that has a cult following to this day. Funny, because manual espresso are getting popular again. In the past I think they fell out of popularity because of semi auto espresso machines were the rave. People wanted simplicity and push button operation.
Got one of the early Robots. Green one. Good to see the red, it looks great in your vid :)
I really like the Robot workflow, which BTW goes super well with the Niche Zero grinder I got a bit after the Robot. It is very nice for two people chatting along while making espresso.
While chatting with friend: heat water - grind, tamp, drop shower screen inside - water is hot and ready, fill portafilter, lock and load + raise Robot arms - grind for the next cup, pull the shot, turn off grinder. Then empty PF and do the next shot, to the amazement of your friend.
Will get the new tamper soon. I almost never pre-heat, only with the occasional light roast.
Excellent! Best reviewer I've seen so far; clear and concise evaluation of each aspect of the product. I just bought a Flair 58 and am viewing a lot of videos on them. Wish me luck as it's my first espresso machine!
I went and did a deep rabbit hole dive about 2 years ago when I looked to buy an espresso machine. I ended up buying the Robot (with the pressure gage) and I absolutely LOVE it. I literally can’t recommend it enough. I did buy the “hands” and upgraded my tamper. I am so happy with the workflow and more importantly the quality of the espresso that is made from it. Also love the fact there are no electronics. Thanks for a great video.
can you share the grinder that you use?
@@annielow9294 Sure, have a Kitchen Aid, ProLine grinder. I bought it about 5 years ago and its a workhorse. It grinds to any fineness and I love it.
I agree I’ve been thinking about getting the flair 58 love the look and design. I think it’s great that it’s compatible with 58mm accessories. The electronic preheating sounds great. I do understand the flaws with that but think overall it seems to work. I’m pretty much sold on it.
right on!
I picked the right video to cast from my phone to the wide screen this morning! Great job, Kyle (especially the intro)! Future Robot owner here due to space considerations in my kitchen, but willing to listen to happy Flair owners because I'm comparatively new to this game
Thanks for watching!
I was leaning towards the Robot over the Pro2, but once I saw on Reddit that the Flair58 was coming out, I waited and got the 58 instead. What sold me was the electronic heating stability and also being able to use 3rd party accessories.
I do agree, the craft that goes into the robot does looks amazing.
That electronic heating, while Gimmicky, is honestly game changing,.
Great! I took delivery of a Robot a few days ago. The rubber ring at the base would not stay in and I had to superglue. The Flair does not seem right to use on a kitchen counter with cupboards above owing to its height. The Robot really won on sizing. With osteoarthritis in my hands, I would love something akin to tennis balls fitted to each handle.
I got my Robot a year ago, before the flair 58 was announced, and have been quite happy with it. I love the esthetics and the workflow without preheat and only two moving parts. However one big thing in my experience with it is that the added mittens (round metal things for the hands of the robot) and the level tamper feel almost required to have a good workflow. Getting a level tamp with the tamper that comes included felt very hit or miss for me, and getting to 9 bar with the two robot is a lot of work, which without the mittens would often leave me with hurting hands while drinking my espresso.
Luckily those two accessories exist, however it is worth noting that with these included, the Robot is no longer more affordable than the flair 58.
Thanks for your experience and could you be kind enough where you got your mitten?
I really wanted to get into espresso, but didn't want to spend a bundle. Therefore, I learned all I could about the Robot and the Flair. The Paul Pratt story really intrigued me and I loved the simplicity, design and build quality of the Robot, so that's what I bought. After 6 months, I'm still learning and experimenting, but I'm very pleased with my choice. I wouldn't do anything different. Two factors that I need to mention, however, are the awkward placement of the pressure gauge and the fact that significant effort is required to get up to the required pressure while pulling a shot. After a short while, I found that with watching the flow through the basket via a mirror and judging by the resistance of the arms, I no longer need to look at the pressure gauge.
I really love the Robot and for my use case as the single coffee drinker in my household, I have no need or desire for further upgrades.
Great heads-up comparison review. Very helpful to me. Thanks!
Was literally comparing these two brewers 2 days ago, you just saved me a couple hours of research.
Boom, you're welcome :)
I think they both seem really cool. I'm happy to see that manual grinders/machines are gaining some popularity. While I fully appreciate the convenience of electronic devices I actually enjoy spending 10 minutes focusing on my morning cup. It's relaxing and being manual has just enough movement to "get the blood flowing" lol. I use a cheaper espresso machine and I'm targeting an upgrade in roughly 1 year. I'd like to find a way to have a taste from these but as of right now I'm thinking the Cafelat Robot will for sure be on my short list.
Being able to skip the pre-heat stage and save a step is a huge bonus for a machine that has no electronics. Just for that I would lean towards the Robot, the size of it also helps that decision.
2 Years into Cafelat Robot. Use it everyday, absolutely love it.
I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with the Flair signature and how easy it is to pull great consistent consecutive shots once dialed in. I got a second brew head to pull 2 shots in minutes. It is very solidly built and the work flow easy to get into a rhythm. On a sailboat, I set the brewer on top of the kettle for preheating; easy. If I were to upgrade, I think I would go for the Flair 58.
Right on! Thanks for the comment!
I have a Flair Signature that I’ve been using for about a year. I absolutely love it alongside my Sette 270
Thanks for sharing! Glad to hear it
Cafelat robot for sure, a charming decoration for barista corner and like what you mentioned in the video, the complexity of aroma always be a surprise compare to other manual/non-manual machine.
I'm very happy with my Robot. No cables, small, fast, and smooth work flow. I'm sure I would have been just as happy with the Flair 58 but I really didn't want any electrical parts/ cables to deal with and the 58x seemed like it needed a lot of pre heating. I started off with a Flair Classic but the workflow was not very smooth/clean in my experience. I have no regrets with the Robot.
Lol, I saw the notification, boiled some water to make coffee to have a cup while I watched - and then realized I had left my bag of beans at work. Doh! Still a nice video even without a cup. Makes me want to cultivate a taste for espresso!
Oh no! Well... thanks for watching anyways :)
Thank you SO much for making this comparison!!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching
the power for the 58 looks cheaper than the power adapter for my christmas lights.
i can’t explain this but the cafelat is apple and the flair is windows
I love my robot and I like Windows xD
Haven't ever tried a flair but I've been a robot owner since before the 58 was announced. The learning curve was steep at first but after I nailed down some recipes I've had some of my favorite shots ever out of it. I'm a huge fan of complex textural shots and that was part of the appeal for me, combined with the fact that I was going to college and needed a dorm setup. Can't tell you how well this works in my dorm and how practical it is when paired with a good hand grinder!
If I had to do it again I think I would still pick the robot because it's so quirky and unique and I also love its small footprint and ease of preheating (I just put the basket/portafilter over the holes on the lid of my Stagg EKG and that gets it nice and hot in the time it takes me to grind my coffee) -- though I would love to be able to use the distribution tools I'd have access to with the 58
A proud robot owner! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the preheating tip! I just purchased a Stagg a couple of weeks ago and now I have another reason to appreciate it!
Distributors/Levelers generally don’t do their job. You are probably better off doing WDT with a needle tool. Will work like a charm for the robot as well
@@RegrinderAlert oh yeah absolutely- if I don’t use a toothpick my shot channels like a MF
There's also the Espresso Forge. I've tried both Forge and Robot, and settled on the Forge. The Robot is easier to use and workflow is better, but the Forge is easier to control pressure and get up to 8-9 bar if desired. Also Forge uses standard 58mm baskets. Both are super robust, will last multiple lifetimes.
Hi Randy, how about the shot produced by both EF and robot , which one is better ?
I'm leaning toward the Flair, 58LE. Thanks for the review.
I picked both! Love them both, though I still need to buy the gauge for the Robot.
The Robot has been on my wishlist for a long time. The design is great, of course, but the idea of it not requiring any power supply to still pull great shots (without preheating) makes it a win. I've been thinking it would make a good machine at my office, to keep me caffeinated after I'm out of range of my home set up.
Right on!
I love my robot and have had it for 2 years. The only upgrade I have been lusting after is the ACS Vesuvius lever.
I am curious, it seems to me like your decision to lean flair 58 was using the stuff you already had. So if you didn’t own stuff compatible with the flair 58 and had to buy all those extra accessories that drives the cost up. Versus the robot which out of the box has everything you need. Since that is how I started and had no other espresso items. Additionally, the leveler tamper and mittens did not exist when I bought it. But I own them and while nice are not necessary.
Fair review and comparison.
The Flair 58 comes with everything you need. There's nothing extra you need to buy. He just said that he likes the fact that he can swap in and out portafilters and baskets he already owns because it uses industry standard parts instead of proprietary pieces.
Flair 58 workflow with the new one way valve is top notch, and the pre heat ensures you get Hugh extractions even with light roasts. Better ergonomics too
I can't wait to try the new one way valve.
Like many many others, I really enjoy(ed) my robot, I even added a smart espresso profiler (naked portafilter) but drifted away from it after we purchased a semi-automatic. Robot basket is 57.5mm, ie, not exactly standard. When I saw the Flair58 I ordered it, and I'm waiting & waiting as its parts are stuck in a harbor somewhere according to Flair. I think I will end up preferring the Flair58, but pulled many very good shots with robot.
Excited to hear how you enjoy your 58!
@@KyleRowsell Sure will do, Flair says the shipping of Oct orders is delayed due to west coast port delays. They updated and advised they are on dry ground now, but still don't have shipping date, as they QC each unit before they send to customer, which was good to hear.
Enjoying your reviews, but don't like you wearing your cap backwards.
@@simkool77 hey, I’m really interested to hear your feedback robot vs flair 58!
I love the looks of the flair and I like the fact its 58mm, but I think I would prefer the 58x (without the electronic) but don’t know how it compare to the robot..
Thanks for the awesome video Kyle. I would pick the robot (same as you already owning a flow profiling machine and a flair pro 2), hopefully o win it 😀. As a scale, I believe the Pyxis will work perfect on the robot as it does with the Flair pro 2.
Thanks for watching!
Proud Robot owner here. I prefer it because I have no prior experience with espresso machines, so my experience of workflow is not tied to other machines. There are pluses and minuses, but overall the Robot is a joy to use. While it would be nice go have access to 58 mm accessories, the Robot really doesn't need them. No need for a distribution tool because the manual profile inherently presoaks and tails pressure at the end of the shot, limiting channeling. And the deep basket is a plus for me, as I can WDT easily with no mess. On preheating, I only preheat on med-light and lighter, and is usually just tamping, adding the screen, filling, and dumping the basket. Not too bad, and honestly you can over extract if you preheat anything darker. And I'd argue cleanup is much better on the Robot, and that was a pain on older Flairs (not sure how the 58 compares here.
But for me the community around the Robot is one of its strongest points. It's got plenty of passionate users that are willing to help new users get fantastic shots and have created procedures and mods to further the experience (I've included myself as a Robot tweaker!). And I'd even include creator Paul as one of those active contributors to the community, and that is so rare these days. Excellent video, and keep up the great work Kyle!
I just picked up a pre-owned Robot on eBay. It’s the barista model with pressure gauge, extra basket, and tamper. Color is a basic matte black, which is my favorite. I have really wanted one for a few years now, and am so excited to receive it! The flair 58 is beautiful no doubt, but it’s a much larger footprint. I have the Flair Classic, and although I can get decent espresso out of it, the workflow and thermal management is not the best, sorry to say… (I still do love my fully modded Gaggia Classic Pro 💕)
Used my Robot for more than a year after choosing it over the Flair and I still love it! I used to preheat at first but found that shot quality got better when I didn't. Could depend on the roast of the beans
Interesting! Thanks for watching!
I’m so torn - I’ve been wanting an espresso machine for a while now and leaning towards a manual one like these! Any chance the robot will come in matte black in the near future ...? Also, LOVE what you’re creating and providing with this channel. Cheers.
It recently became available in matte black
I want to see Flair 58 changes pre-heated adapter from AC to use USB C
Great review! If I'm going to plug in, then I want a boiler - so I went with a used Europiccola over the Flair58. However, without power, I think that the Robot is the ultimate family/car camping espresso maker. In addition, the Robot achieves something exceedingly rare - being better looking and just plain better than its inspiration (baby Faemina). Thanks for the awesome review!
Thanks for watching!
You dont want to bring that huge Robot into camping. Believe me. Flair signature/pro2 more suitable for that purpose.
@@xrypro4080 I was referring to car camping, so there will be lots of room. When there is less room, like air travel, I will use a modified Handpresso. It is much smaller and lighter than a Flair yet still offers a levers's declining pressure profile. However, for bike camping or backpacking I will go even lighter and use an Aeropress. What I didn't like about (original) Flair was all the pfaffing about needed to pull a shot and clean up. I haven't looked at subsequent versions.
I have a Faema Baby in working condition and I'd been thinking about getting a rok or a robot because I like the way this machines work (double pull) Did you tried face to face the faema baby vs the robot?
@@realssilencer The Robot was based on the Baby - just with modern food-safe components and materials like a silicone piston seal. The Rok is a different mechanism entirely and arguably not as good as the Robot. Just my opinion.
Flair58’s electronic controller looks like a 80’s chinese toy.
I just got the 58, super pumped to get it rolling. That robot looks super cool, it makes me want one. Should be getting my grinder any day. Cheers to all the coffee heads
Enjoy
i own a flair neo, upgrading to 58+ after a few months. home brewer, workflow isn’t all that and water capacity is the driving factor. the robot is awesome, i researched it many a moon before settling on flair. the 58mm accessories easily available, and wood turners on etsy make the 58 the go to. flow profiling is a nice feature
no preheating. Im sold, was almost going to buy that 58 but the no preheating and the description about the taste has me sold on the robot.
Great vid Kyle
Hey thanks for watching!
i have the flair pro2 and hesitated to buy the 58 when purchasing. although i love my pro2, my wife doesn't want to go through the hassle of pre-heating and prepping which would have been easier with the 58 obviously. maybe i'll sell and buy. maybe i'll just keep saving (forever) and get a Decent haha !! ....... thanks kyle for the video!
This is one HUGE plus for the 58. Thanks for watching!
I'd love a Flair 58!
Hey, robot owners! Give me an advice, please. Is it worth to buy additional basket if I want to brew second shot immediately? Or the cleaning is fast enough to get it without noticeable delay?
Can you please make a video on espresso machines without grinders ? Breville Bambino vs De’longhi Desica for example . Thanks!
Kyle nice review. Why do you think the robot gives more viscosity (better mouth feel)?
If I was going to buy either it'd be the Robot. Without the capacity to steam I wouldn't want something that had to be tied to the wall. This is ultimately why I went with a La Pavoni when replacing my Gaggia Classic. The real allure for a fully manual machine is coffee anywhere, with the Flair 58 it's coffee anywhere with a plug point.
Great video Kyle👌 and I adore the Halloween themed intro. Currently using 58x mainly because I am more into ritualising my brew and enjoying the fully manual process. And I am agreed the workflow is pretty straight forward and enjoyable.
Thanks for watching Arian!
I own a robot and it’s amazing. The applied pressure and other dial in settings took some getting used to but once I knew my way around it, Best espresso ever. Now I can’t drink regular cafe espresso!
Thanks for sharing
Excellent wrap up, and what a tough choice! Currently weighing this up and it might come down to colour (to match the kitchen scheme and therefore keep the Minister of Finance happy) and availability in Australia. The E61 portafilter is not a factor for me as I currently have no compatible equipment. Leaning towards the Robot at the moment (mainly because of simplicity and elegant elimination of pre-heating in the design), but the previously mentioned factors might drive the decision the other way. Also going through the pain of choosing a grinder, and your videos have been a big help, so thankyou!
Hi Kyle, newbie question: I’ve watched videos on different lever machines but I’m still confused about the choice between fully manual and spring lever. From what I understand, manuals like the Robot give you control over temperature, pressure, and length of pull. But in the end, can that additional control give me a better espresso than something like a spring version of the Odyssey Argos or is it simply an experiential preference?
Hi Kyle, thanks for the comparison. does flair power brick support 220v?
Everybody's going to have different wants and needs but as a cafelat robot user here's my good points and bad points:
Good:
No preheat at all, just boil your kettle and you're good to go. Cleanup is almost nothing, knock out the puck and rinse under the tap, done. No power needed and will last forever. Taste wise there's no limitations on what the machine can produce coffee wise.
Bad:
Definitely need the mittens for a more comfortable experience. The legs are slightly narrow in terms of fitting in scales and larger latte cups. The basket is fab but again it's non standard for things like levellers.
I didn't go for the flair as the workflow seemed far more fiddly to me and had too many extra steps, and when the flair 58 with the heater came out, it was still another bit of annoyance to preheat.
I can tell that you have an upgrade of quality After Effects. Kudos for those thunder. And great video as always Kyle ☺️. Now I have to convince (begging) my gf for next upgrade.
Had to add a little Halloween flare!
What if you wanted to pull along espresso shot with the robot - could you raise the plunger add more water and then slowly press to extract more or not?
Thanks for the great review! Have you tried The Rok? It's another level manual espresso maker that's been around for awhile and has an upgrade kit for old models. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one :)
Happy owner of a Flair 58. The wide availability of 58mm commercial espresso accessories made it a no brainer. I prefer the look of the Flair over the Robot and being able to easily fit my Acaia Lunar in the drip tray.
I accidentally didn't order the robot with the pressure gauge but I like the ethos of just eyeballing the flow and knowing what looks good for what you're trying to do.
I paired it with the 1zPresso J Max recently for a fully manual workflow (I roast at home too so the only thing left for me to do is start a coffee plantation I guess) and it's so satisfying to see my work pay off with a tasty espresso with probably a tenth of the carbon footprint/electricity bill of operating a traditional espresso machine.
While I am sounding like an absolute wanker I will also roast you for the choice of a red robot. That surf green is the only choice 😆
I just ordered the Robot in matte black to pair with my 1zPresso J Max. I’ve been using the J Max with a PicoPresso by Wacaco. I’m so excited to move to the all metal Robot and the J Max is just awesome.
As long as the Flair 58 can compete way more expensive Pro espresso machine, there’s no doubt for me that it worth the investment! And i am very curious what kind of of recipe/brewing methods will come in the future with the flair 58, i really hope to see a barista Flair 58 championship same as we can see for the Aeropress.
That would be neat!
I love robot but im planing to go for 58 or 58x... Didn't decide jet but will for shure. Is your kattle having a wooden handle or is it print?
Well let's make a coffee and watch this
I sell @ farmers markets and just pulled the trigger on the Flair 58 today. I will pair it with a bellman milk steamer, lets see how it goes.
Was looking at the robot for a long time, probably 1 year + ago, by the time I had the money the flair 58 came out. I picked the flair 58 ultimately because it has a normal portafilter which means limitless 3rd party accessories will work and I can change to like another tamper easily.
Kind of the same for me, was looking for the pro 2 and they announced the flair 58 maybe one weed after lol I get it, so happy with it ! I bought a vest basket 2 weeks after best spare part I bought to upgrade, and recently get a Malkohnig X54, my shots are wonderful !
@@rdalmasso7326 "one weed after" , this needs to be a new time unit I love it
@@Coreycry if you have brewing recipes for it let me know ahah
love the production quality of your videos!!
I have no experience with the robot, but from using other manual non-electric machines, my experience is that you really need a hot brew environment with lighter roasts (and then they're great!). I don't think you mentioned which kind of coffee you used for testing, but I can understand if it's a more developed (medium) roast that extracts easier, preheating isn't that crucial.
I almost exclusively use light roasts, and have my Flair 58 on the medium preheat setting with 98°C water from the kettle. On the high setting, water starts to boil inside. ;-)
I almost exclusively use lighter roasts as well. And with the robot, while pre heating does help, it’s not a must.
@@KyleRowsell ok gotcha! I think it's interesting that there's still such a difference in flavor. I always assumed a thicker puck creates more body and less complexity, but since the Robot is also 58mm, the puck depth should be similar, no?
Would you say it's similar to comparing a Flair Pro2 to a 58? Or does the robot sit in the middle between these two? Do you grind coarser for the robot? (if it's not a high-flow basket, that might have a similar effect too)
in the video, the flair pressure gauge was reading below 5 bars, definitely need to grind finer to ensure pressure is at 6+ bars at least.
I’m not sure what you mean. There were no videos mid shot that had the pressure gauge included.
@@KyleRowsell At 4:40 was that not the full shot being pulled?
@@KyleRowsell the entire shot on the flair had the pressure gauge visible in the video. the pressure never reached 5 bars, maybe 4 and was down to 2-1 at the end? just pointing that out as it changes the taste dramatically.
I'm getting the robot it's on order, I got because I want the easiest really good espresso I can get. Maintenance seems easier also on the robot, I just don't trust the electronics on the flair to not break. I also don't have a place on my counter to hide that power supply and cable.
Hi Kyle, what grinder do you use for both test?
I used the niche zero for this video
How's the Robot doing with light roast that usually require very high water temp?
It does great!
Suuuureeee the Robot doesn't need pre-heating. Nothing like an opening with a touch of comedy.
Robot user here: probably the best thing I have bought in years and by far the best coffee-related thing.. in particular for darker roasts preheating is not necessary imho.
For the Robot to be above all, it remains to Cafelat to make a deal with IMS to adapt the basket 1 cup 8-10 g (the convex), for me the best of the baskets 1 cup of the market. With a ratio of 11g in 19g out for example, it would be the bomb!
The CAFELAT ROBOT - which I own - is the best espresso preparing aparatus that I've been used. More than any device. Any thing that you think of - is better by the Robot and, if, by time, I will have to stop using it (unthinkable), It will always will stay with me - on the shelf.
I belive if you put some bee wax on the wood or mineral oil it will feel great. I understand it is dip if it came uncared from the box
I've got a robot and DF64. Perfect pair.
I had Cafelat Robot and I think it's pure manual espresso machine .
Only the hot water and grind coffee you can make a good espresso . And with all the component that stainless steel. So it build to last .
For flair 58 you need a lot more counter space and with that it's not fit to my counter in my tiny room.
The Flair could easily be configured as a retro nineteenth century bit of machinery with a cast ( iron ) handle and resonant details .
I'm a beginner robotic espresso man espresso maker user but I have not been able to make a good cup of espresso yet I know the coffee beans are important I have a nilce 0 grinder tell me what coffee you are using
Hello, I am thinking of a 1Zpresso grinder and a Cafelat. I am very interested in the Cafelat with the 1960s design, a bit more of craftmanship and complex profile espresso.
Anyways, since the J-Max has a lot of fines and so will the cafelat, will it give a lot of fines when I use them together? Should I look out for another grinder for Cafelat? I know this is very subjective but I need to know.
Also, how is it compared to the K series and the new K-max?
I have the Cafelat Robot and a 1Zpresso J-Max - don't sweat it. It produces fantastic espresso. Took me a week or so to find the right grind settings for my beans, but the rest is pretty straight forward. Grind, dose, tamp, put diffuser screen on, add hot water (I'm using an adjustable temp electric kettle, makes brewing for different roasts a lot easier), load, and press. I like to do a few seconds of 2-3 bar pressure for a sort of pre-infusion effect, then bring it up to around 9 and go until I get my weight. I have a little coffee scale from Amazon a buddy recommended and it fits perfectly, makes it a lot easier. Going by time works pretty well too. Either way you will enjoy it. Oh, I did add a WDT tool which has helped refine things, but it was very enjoyable without.
@@Existential_brian I expect the flavor to be very intense. Is it?
My 58 *should* have arrived by now but it got stuck on a boat...really up in the air as to when it will actually be delivered.
Sorry to hear that! Unfortunately that’s the world we live in today 🥲
How are results of the Robot with light roasted coffe? Aren't the shots too sour, as Lance Hedrick suggests?
With the taste quality so close, Robot is more appealing with no 5-10 min heat up time that Flair has, and seemingly simpler workflow, simpler design(no cables especially) and smaller footprint. But I’d own them both if I could haha
I'm watching this video again, because I'm wondering whether I shouldn't also take the Flair to keep my Robot company (I love him). But listening to you, I have a question that might help potential buyers. Would you say that the Flair will suit medium and in some cases lighter roasts, while the Robot will always excel with more traditional roasts?
Talk ask here, but might there be any way you could review the Quick Mill Pathfinder?? It most likely isn’t going to beat a Bianca but….I can’t justify owning a Bianca lol
I have a bit of bias when choosing between this two. Since I already have ROK, I will go for flair 58.
Kyle I live in Bogota where boiling temperature is 92C (not ideal)
Which of the 2 would you recomend to me?
I’d just boil at whatever temp possible!
Great video bud. I am a big fan of the aesthetics of the Robot for sure. Looks so classic, when I think of manual espresso this is what I think of. Beautiful pieces of equipment, the both of them.
Is a bianca or an ecm synkronika really worth over a robot or a flair?
This unbox therapy guy went a long way from fixing laptops to reviewing manual coffee machines. You go man!
Hi. I’m Kyle. Not Lew. But thanks for watching!
Thanks for a great video. I’d like to know, though, why is it such a big deal that you can use 58mm accessories? What are the accessories that can make flair 58 so much better? Because Flair seems to take up more room, little harder to clean, and you need to preheat, I’d choose the robot I think.
It’s not the biggest deal. If you don’t plan to use third party portafilters, baskets, tampers etc than the robot will do you just fine.
@@KyleRowsell I have a 51mm espresso machine at home, will a change to a 58mm make any change to the taste of the coffee, all else being equal?
@Erik Burgerhagen Thank you, to clarify, I currently have a Delonghi Dedica, which I upgraded with a unpressurised filter. If I were to upgrade to say a Gaggia classic or a Rancilio Silvia, would this result in an improvement in the taste of the espresso that an average person would notice?
@@he7230 of course but you'd still probably have to do some mods (easy ones) to make either of them "real". Their pumps still wouldn't keep up in throughput with the machines in the video. NO. CHANCE.
Dedica is maybe slightly better than their cheaper ones but still basically an entry level machine, electronic stores and general household electronics reviewers (aka shills) might say otherwise but the biggest difference is pretty much the price. Still can pull shots and if it works for you... actually whatever works for you, you are the one to decide in the end.
Have both and by far prefer the 58!
I’d love to know why!
Thanks for the review. Would have been nice to have the full machines in frame to get a better look at them as you talk.
If I win this years fantasy football I plan on using the winnings on the Flair 58, so here's to winning :P (so far undefeated so we'll how that goes!)