for me Gwen stacy is true love for pete and it really piss me off that writers again kill her off again and again for a same drama for a pass decades, I really want gwen and pete are together
The issue is not about Peter's true love, it's about the writers hating the concept of him settling down with one woman, because that would make him progress as a character, and the writers and directors abhor the idea of Peter not being broke and single. And because of that, *ANY RELATIONSHIP PETER STARTS WILL EVENTUALLY CRUMBLE.* All three of them work great with Parker. I'm a MJ stan, but Gwen is his first love and I deeply respect that. She will always have a spot in Peter's heart, and even MJ recognizes that, because MJ and Gwen were friends too. And Felicia has that awesome dynamic with him, not too far from Batman and Catwoman, and I would love to see them together too. But the writers, and more importantly, the directors at Marvel Comics don't want to. So they force the relationships to break. Gwen's legacy was tarnished and torn up for the sake of cheap drama, because her relationship with Peter was still very alive in the fandom. Then Peter got married to MJ, they pulled OMD. But Peter and MJ were together for so long in the comics that it is nigh impossible to reconcile this. So they gotta throw MJ's reputation in the trash too. Same for Felicia, every time she and Peter get into a more meaningful relationship, SOMETHING happens that separates them. I'll repeat, the issue is not the true love, it's that Peter isn't allowed to have one to begin with!
Spider Gwen is just a feminist cash cow for female "empowerment." She is such a predictable girl boss it makes it hard to give a shit about her in the Spiderverse movies.
@@stormcutter59she’s only popular for her character design. The storyline is elseworlds and I doubt any casual nor serious comic fans know much about her beyond the movies. It begins and ends with her costume honestly. A shallow and dead end concept much like the Spider-Verse itself.
@@lukeamparo6586 Totally agree. I hate how DEI has worked to make Miles and Gwen the main Spidermen today. It's so obvious why they do this with how hard they have overshadowed Peter in recent years
@@stormcutter59I see what you mean but it’s time for Peter Parker to sit down, his comics haven’t been good in a long time and there isn’t any more stories left to tell about him. New Ultimate spider man is cool tho we need more of that but if not just retire him and let new guys takeover
@@justpassingthrough854 No its not time for Peter Parker to sit ANYTHING. That's like saying the same thing for every superhero. It just takes a good writer with a good head on his/her shoulders to tell a great story with him. As you said, Ultimate Spiderman is a great example of this. But I kind get what you mean, this present comic in question really sucks now. Irreparable damage has been done
The current state of Amazing Spider-Man is miserable but unfortunately it's especially unlikely to change considering that no matter the controversy, Amazing Spider-Man is consistently the number 1 selling Marvel book. Let's hope Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man has longevity.
I love the idea of Peter with Black Cat, but the authors have messed with their relationship to the point where they could never be together. Though at this point that's true with all of them.
Gwen Stacy was Peter Parker's first recreated love, and it was Stan Lee's original intent for Peter and Gwen to get married had Gerry Conway not written "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" while Stan Lee was on vacation. I've always seen Gwen as the "good girl" trope done right and for a Mary-Sue protagonist like Spider-Man, Gwen Stacy would've been the perfect love interest for him. I think that George Stacy gradually figuring out Spider-Man's identity and then trusting him to keep Gwen safe after his death proves that Gwen would've been Peter's perfect match. There's even a comic when Mary Jane admits that she plays catch up to Gwen.
Every time I see something like what you just written it makes me realize how childish editorial and other comic book writers are, because what I see from what you just wrote down is someone who is looking at someone else's toys and then decided to break them, And what's annoying is that happens a lot where whether it's because of health or they just had to leave for financial physical mental or anything in between the next person that comes along sees the situation and then decides to smash everything and it is so childish.
Stan got to appreciate a lot MJ he evem got to give the idea himself of married the two and even one of his last cameo was in spider-man insomniac to the couple. Gwen in comparation of MJ didn't really much develop as a charactel she was a really good girlfriend and hater of spider-man for thinking his dad die for him (and just kinda that) if we compare Gwen and MJ, MJ is way better character in my opinion (whem she is writte in a good way). Peter and MJ don't even have to much things and common and are kinda opposites and they still work (or better say worked).
Stan lee also lied lol. The man said that after fan backlash, that's why not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously in my opinion. I'l believe conway on that one
No I don't believe that. The Night Gwen Stacy Died forever changed comics. It had such a pivotal influence on the comic industry that I refuse to believe it was done out of some petty impulse by Conway. No not at all. People don't seem to realize this, but Comic book stories were extremely regulated and limited by in the 50s and 60s. Comic book writers actually couldn't write or show death back then. Everything always had to be episodic. Eventually by the late 60s and early 70s, those regulations loosened up. What Gerry Conway did was so big, that it essentially jump-started the Bronze Age of Comics. This wasn't something Conway could just do on a whim. Conway had to have major editorial oversight to proceed into this territory. Stan Lee was a showman and had a repeated history of exaggerating.
For me personally it always Black Cat and Spider-Man. They just have this chemistry that just seems so unmatched compared to other relationships. Cause Felicia and Peter just have this moral of like you'll never change me Spider and Peter would always contradict her and now she's more hero than theft in the comics. Even the 90s Cartoons portrayed very well
For Black Cat, it's interesting because she's essentially the best side chick you could have. I think if Black Cat would stop being a criminal that she would be the perfect love interest since she can take of herself in most cases. It's just that having Black Cat be Spider-Man's primary love interest might be a bit uncertain because if Felica broke up with Peter because they weren't toxic enough, that tells me that Felica might want to keep her option open. Then you start to remember why she's just a side chick, I think Felcia works best in Spider-Man's life as "the bad girl" something that you want, but you know you don't need.
I agree with this. Having her be the primary love interest takes a way a lot from her character, and rewrites her character in an unsatisfying way the way they've done to MJ.
That's like saying Catwoman is just Batmans "side chick". I think they only write her that way because of the way the current comics are going. If you have ever read "The Evil that Men do", it really shows her growth as a person and the impact Peter had in her life and how much she regrets screwing it up. You see a version of her the truly appreciates him as a whole person and not just the mask. And she doesn't ask him to be something he's not. which removes the usual internal conflict the always has. She would be a perfect supportive partner for him and it would be a very good case for character growth. If only they'd stay the course like in a What if story or an alternative like Renew your Vows.
Either Chat or Kitty, those would be my answer on the best. Chat was literally perfect for her Peter, even without powers, while Kitty's only problem was that her Peter was still hung up on MJ.
She never was Spider-Man's true love. In house of M, he saw, meet, had a life and shared a final kiss with his true love, Gwen. Im not saying they should bring back gwen. They shouldve never done that. The point of the story is Spider-Man loses his true love. That doesnt mean he cant have other relationships but Gwen will always be his true love
Here's the thing about how Gwen, Black Cat, and MJ are written. Gwen loves Peter but hates Spider-Man, black cat loves the spider but can't bring herself to love the man beneath the mask, and finally MJ when written correctly shows that even with the difficulties that Peter being Spider-Man brings she wouldn't force him to give it up because of the guilt of letting others die for his happiness when in his perspective he could have done something about it.
I will agree that Mary Jane's time in the sun is over. I like how you mentioned Black Cat gives Peter a level of security because she is a capable fighter in her own right. It would be interesting if Peter dated and possibly got into long term relationship with another superhero. Personally, I think Silver Sable relationship could lead to some amazing stories.
We can also attribute this to the MCU. I feel like a lot of people don't really want MCU Peter to come back to MJ immediately in the next movie so it would be interesting to see if they will either bring Gwen into the picture or Black Cat swings in and we see Peter in a much more stable relationship. The worst and funniest thing we get in the MCU is MJ is with a guy named "Paul".
I've never been a fan of MJ personally. I've been Gwen fan and a Felicia fan. But MJ has always been a stepping stone love interest in my opinion that can't leave due to tension. We also need to remember that we live in a time where marriage and healthy relationships are seen as either stifling or built on lies...
I recently realised that spidey has been fighting a drug addiction.... Mary Jane is another name for weed right? Is that why he keeps going back to her toxic ass? he keeps relapsing
I personally don't believe Peter and Gwen would stay together. Don't forget, she blamed Spider-Man for the death of her father and that killed any plans Peter had of telling her his secret identity. If he can't share literally half of his life with her than what chance did they have? At best they would have to breakup for a time before getting back together and at worse she'd end up being another person Peter is close to that turned supervillain.
I will always maintain Mary jane and Peter parker are meant to be together as a married couple and having them be a family along side there daughter mayday parker Spider-girl and their son Benjy parker along there side, because them being a couple and having family is the best thing for this couple and makes sense for Spider-Man peter parker & Mary jane in my opinion. :)
When they are written as intended? Yes. Mary Jane is the true love of Peter Parker. Full stop, no exceptions. We don't talk about post-OMD filth. Period.
One More Day made me stop reading Spider-man 🤷♂ They simply don't want Peter to be settled with something stable in his life. I think that Marvel wants to send a certain message for which if you like Spiderman and want to be inspired by him, than you must learn that your life will be miserable and you'll never be happy.
I say that the relationship with black cat is really the only avenue at this point... The success of ultimate Spider-Man proves at last without a shadow of a doubt that we (the fans) want Peter aka spider-man to get married, settle down, and stay that way But on earth 616 Mary Jane just isn't the person she could have been. Earth 616 mary jane just became a entirely different person than the Mary Jane from the new ultimate universe due to having entirely different experiences past a certain point. If they want earth 616 Spider-Man to stay relevant they need to try to establish that same kinda life for him and make a company policy that spider-man keeps his marriage with whoever he ends up with under any and all circumstances... But earth 616 Pete just can't end up with his MJ because she has been ruined as a character, the best, and perhaps only option, is black cat... If black cat needs that excitement, then there are ways to write that in, maybe it could be like a game, her still trying to corrupt him even though they are married, and he always tries to resist the corruption, but they both agree that either way they stay married regardless. Maybe part of the agreement could be that if she manages to get something he considers immortal (just to clarify immortal by the standards of when they get married she is trying to corrupt him after all) past his moral compass she could then cash that in to go steal something without him trying to stop her or telling someone else who would. Pete could agree on with his train of thought being "that will never happen, she won't manage to corrupt me, and i get her as my wife". Maybe they could have it as some kinda magical marriage contract, with these details included in a way that both of them are happy with. that way neither of them CAN break it, because it isn't even possible. after all this is black cat aka Felicia Hardy we are talking about...
I thought i saw an interview with Stan at one point that he said that Gwen was the one he was always meant to be with and then she died and he will never be with the one he TRUELY was meant for. Im a Black Cat simp personally but they have made MJ and Pete so iconic.
2:11 In my humble opinion before watching any more of the video I personally believe that Gwen Stacy is his greatest love as well as his greatest loss if it weren't for Gwen's death Peter and MJ never would have gotten together It was Gwen's death that pushed them towards that path with her helping grieving Peter I feel if she hadn't died they would have gotten married and had kids and everything but also I think him and MJ would still have become friends and if anything I think they would have been like best friends
@@morxsum693 he got them married again in his newspapee strips and thought the comics would remarry then again at some point. So i doubt he would like it
It's Gwen. In the House of M story where basically most all of the heroes were granted thier "wish" life. Peter was married to and very happy with Gwen. If I remember correctly, Pete was devastated when his real memories were unlocked and he had to admit it was a false reality.
Peter and MJ work for me under main continuity-specific circunstances, mainly that they were initially supperficially attracted to each other and latter fell in love and that she was the first person to know his identity. I'd be ok with adaptations using other love interests, honestly.
My issue with Gwen Stacey is that she has with almost glossy shine to her 70's character, that I don't think traslate well to older Peter's more stressed career as a hero Webb's version of Gwen is amazing. However, the character is given scientific abilities, which balance with kind and caring nature to make her more interesting
She's from an alternate reality tho and not from the main marvel universe but other than that they're so good together in the marvel adventures universe
Honestly, the best spider-man love interest is Sophia Sanduval, also known as Chat from 2005 series, "Marvel adventures spider man", issues 53 to 61. (Previous issues are from different author and irrelevant to the story). No dying due to reminder of how physics work, sheer empty ungratefulness and drama, ,deals with literal satan or fucking Paul. Just wholesomeness.... That was of course stopped from continuing.
I really like Liz Allen from Spectacular and Far from Home. They're good characters and a really good relationship, but in both continuities, Peter Parker messes up emotionally and Spider-Man arrests her family members.
I’ve always stood by the idea of Gwen Stacy being the one that would have been his one and only love if she had lived. Mj is and always will be his best friend and Wife, the one who completely gets him and supports him throughout. And Felicia is the one that could’ve been in the same boat as Mj but she has an addiction for making trouble and rarely settles down. That being said Felicia and peter’s most recent time as a couple could’ve led to a genuine, honest and loving relationship but zebb wells is a fucking mess with his storytelling
The mutual breakup between Spidey and Black Cat is actually great, they just grew bored of each other and went their sperate ways, I've been through that and its nostlagic lol
For me my favorite love interest for Peter would have to be Silk. I mean she has a connection with Pete being bitten by the same spider as him. She's a superhero who can easily take care of herself and lastly the both of them thanks to their spider powers are naturally attracted to each other. Like she's the pretty much the best girlfriend for the dude same powers, a superhero, a connection to each other come on marvel.
From the outside looking in, it sounds a Lil too convenient. Bit strange. Ya know? I'm sure it's less odd in the comics, but hearing sparse details makes it sound weird.
@@Touriquette It is weird and its brought up in the comics, they couldnt control their attraction because of being bitten by the same spider...There wasnt any real personal relationship between the two
@@Touriquettethe silk pairing in general is not good. Her fans hate it and like how her comics got better the more distanced she is from him , honestly, I don't blame them lol.
I would just really, *really* love if Black Cat could be a love interest in the live action movies too. I feel like a romance with her and Tom Halland's take would contribute to cementing him as an older, more mature person. Also, would love for her to be the new main love interest if we ever got an Amazing Spiderman 3.
I don't read comics but iv seen the movies and different shows. I guess that's love sometimes from both sides. i think gwen's is always portrayed as the healthiest but mj is always the iconic duo and that's just always the formula to the hero peter he's always the most relatable and in the end goes down the path of becoming a true hero even if he starts out like one of us. He's not a selfless person and he still does all this. it's what makes him one of the few hero's everyone wants to keep up with.
YES. With a better writer/editor who doesn't intentionally write Mary Jane and Peter out of character. They are each other's one true love, the Lois and Clark of Marvel. 616 ASM can still be fixed.
To me the best way to go about Peter's relationships is to of course start with Gwen. Gwen should be an important figure in Peter's life, his first true love. Then after her death, like in the original comics have Mary Jane step up and mature from her party gal persona, and become a stable rock of support in Peter's life. Black cat and Spiderman fool around a bit here and there, but never really get serious. My head cannon being peter tried to make a move, but Felicia refused due to not being able to comprehend a relationship with the regular guy underneath the mask. A choice she later regrets as Peter and MJ get married, however she still makes the effort to get to know Peter and becomes somewhat of a sister figure to him. Leaving us off with Peter and Mary Jane Happily married, Gwen gone but never forgotten, and black cat being just a genuinely good friend. If Peter and MJ have kids, I can definitely see Felicia being like a cool aunt to them. But hey, this is just my personal preference.
While were on the topic, I feel Storm and Pete had a great vibe, she'd have been a fantastic older sis type of gf. Anything's on the table now with PAUL. I'm going for Morrigan x Peter now. Thank you Marvel vs Capcom release for reviving that, especially with the not at all subtle art of them facing each other. Thank you thank you thank you
Interesting note, even though Spiderman TAS (and wider Marvel AU) had a different Pete take, starting with him in college, etc, and no Gwen Stacy, it was interesting in the finale, where multiverse of Peter Parkers as Spiderman (with a note of one not) had to work together to stop a hell world created by Spider-Carnage Peter. I was shocked back then because when they went to the world of a Peter who was arrogant, rich from being a hero and a leading scientist, had Fisk as his lawyer (!), etc etc, in a world where nothing had gone wrong for Peter - Gwen was alive, and they were about to be married. Tells you something, I guess. But yeah, guess Im at heart a Felicia stan. And if we wanna talk about how SHE'S been ruined over the decades. Built up, ruined. Built up, ruined. They even had a nice angle with Felicia in TAS, in that she was interestingly, friends with Peter and friends beforehand, so not much if any of the "I only love Spiderman, blargh on Pete".
Sadly, the web-head's "True Love" is the pain that the higher-ups at Marvel puts him through. Doesn't matter if it's in video games, movies, different comic continuities, the pain always finds him.
When they were talking about Peter and Felicia breaking up because their relationship wasn't toxic enough I was thinking "What kind of fucked up relationships have comic writers been in to think a couple being happy, healthy and loving means it's time to break up."
Wouldnt be Gwen. It's only MJ and Pete because thats who the franchise always pushed Peter to be with. But in all reality wouldnt be Gwen regardless or not if she dies. Yeah, Gwen may not have the same witty personality as MJ but she someone Pete loved and saw a future with.
A bit late to the party but I agreed I honestly love the idea was Spider-Man and Black Cat together. And I also agree with the fact that how they broke up is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I've heard a lot of things about how the writers think that him not having a good relationship is relatible to readers. And I just want to see him be happy at the end of the day.
Different Spider-Mans should have different love interests and not just Mary Jane… like they seem so attached to her like a fucking parasite without any care if it’s good for that version of Peter
At this point none of them work anymore… and writing wise the stuff that has happened there is no coming back from it. Realistically you could have Spiderman start becoming bitter, stop pulling his punches, and really descend into being an antagonist or an anti hero. As for love interest someone new is needed, someone unlikely and not really considered.
3:31 I don't. When she was alive there wasn't much to Gwen beyond "Peter's girlfriend." Her death has made her seem more interesting and important than she actually was.
I think its a split as MJ (the older versions of MJ) / Not dead Gwen is the love of the normal side of Peter and Black Cat is the love of the Spiderman side of Peter. Its weird though as MJ is the one that springs to mind at first when I think of Peter's Girlfriend. Black Cat I kind of feel is the better one since she's a partner that can actually understand both halves of Peter, and they can actually kind of push each other into a better version of each other.
i think a key fact you may have over looked is that gwen is the only one we know 100% would have still loved him with or without the powers. SHE for sure is his real true love, MJ is Easily his worst writers or not, and Black cate is just a personal favorite lol
Have they done a crossover where Spider-Gwen has met with a younger Peter Parker (like ultimate spiderman)? I feel like that would be funny since both iterations have the same humor.
I've always had a thing for Black Cat. I know MJ is Peter's true love but Felicia just does something for me. I also like Catwoman for Batman so that probably says something about me.
Chat from Spider-Man marvel adventures has the best couple moment ive ever seen it has ups and down just like normal relationship but it is still such a great couple to me
If we are talking about all versions of Spider-Man. Then I'd go with Chat, a mutant from one of the alternate runs on Peter Parker. Or if we want to talk what I think could be endgame? Either Black Cat, or we actually let Gwen Revive with Super-powers, let her join in on the fun. I feel like what MJ did kind of kills the ship to a significant degree. We need like a universe reboot to pull it off. Though personally, I liked the 161 universe romantic implications the most. Where Rogue seemed to have a thing for Peter, in part because Peter didn't reject her new appearance, after having swapped core powers with Nightcrawler, thus turning into a similar appearance to him whil he turned normal. Sadly that universe was about the X-men, so they didn't keep him around for more then a single issue.
It's been hard for spider man fans because the writers just don't want him to be happy. Spiderman and black cat could be the marvel equivalent to batman and catwoman but no a healthy relationship with 2 people respecting each other that can stop the other from going to far is bad.
Gwen should stay in the past and Spider-Gwen should be with Miles MJ should either be a loving, supporting character or be with ... Paul. Black Cat should most definitely be the new trend, possibly having Felicia fall for Peter during like a study session or something (in college) and Cat flirting with Spidey until they finally go for it and they recognize the kiss, realizing who each other is, revealing their secret identities. Honestly a fun dynamic, Cat and Spidey flirting while Felicia and Peter have just begun dating and the accidental identity reveal.
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if the comics and the movies sort of take this route where I always believe or the films. Toby‘s true love is Mary Jane. Andrew is Gwen Stacy, although he’s unfortunately dead so maybe travel to a different universe and another Gwen Stacey OK Andrew, and I would like Tom Holland’s future love interest after MJ to be either Felicia or Carly. Since probably never get 616 Peter to date MJ again why not to stick with Felicia. I mean, if the ultimate comics are all we’re gonna ever get with Peter being with MJ you might as well just let 616. Keep someone else.
Gwen Stacy is the love of Peter Parker's life, but she got killed by the Green Goblin. It's one of the most defining moments of the conflict between Peter and Spider-Man.
It's sad, really. MJ used to be THE ONE until Zeb Wells's run. Gwen Stacy has forever had her relationship with Peter tarnished after "Sins Past," despite its being retconned. And Black Cat is cursed to always be in an on-again, off-again kind of relationship with Peter because the writers just don't want them together either. You ask me who I think Peter's "true love" is? It's pain. But really, his most stable relationship he's ever really had was surprisingly with Sophia "Chat" Sanduval, a mutant from Marvel's Avengers: Spider-Man from 2009.
Let’s us know who YOU believe Pete’s/ Spidey’s GREATEST love is🤔🕷️
Sophia chat sandoval. Part of the Marvel Adventures comics, and she works perfectly with Peter. Its so good if you've never read it.
Annie Marie Macaroni (jk obviously)
First two perfect interests
for me Gwen stacy is true love for pete and it really piss me off that writers again kill her off again and again for a same drama for a pass decades, I really want gwen and pete are together
I believe Felicia Hardy aka Black Cat is the Spidey greatest love
The issue is not about Peter's true love, it's about the writers hating the concept of him settling down with one woman, because that would make him progress as a character, and the writers and directors abhor the idea of Peter not being broke and single. And because of that, *ANY RELATIONSHIP PETER STARTS WILL EVENTUALLY CRUMBLE.*
All three of them work great with Parker. I'm a MJ stan, but Gwen is his first love and I deeply respect that. She will always have a spot in Peter's heart, and even MJ recognizes that, because MJ and Gwen were friends too. And Felicia has that awesome dynamic with him, not too far from Batman and Catwoman, and I would love to see them together too.
But the writers, and more importantly, the directors at Marvel Comics don't want to. So they force the relationships to break. Gwen's legacy was tarnished and torn up for the sake of cheap drama, because her relationship with Peter was still very alive in the fandom. Then Peter got married to MJ, they pulled OMD. But Peter and MJ were together for so long in the comics that it is nigh impossible to reconcile this. So they gotta throw MJ's reputation in the trash too. Same for Felicia, every time she and Peter get into a more meaningful relationship, SOMETHING happens that separates them.
I'll repeat, the issue is not the true love, it's that Peter isn't allowed to have one to begin with!
Yes, thats right
Read Renew your Vows
It’s not the writers it’s the executives trying to make him a teenager again
Catwoman and Batman
Have the second most TOXIC
Relationship in DC
The First being
Clark and Lois
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω lmao well peter has both with black cat and MJ
His greatest love interest is the Writers, and it’s an abusive relationship
Truer words have never been spoken😂😂😂
cancel the writers
At this point, Gwen feels almost entirely overshadowed by Spider-Gwen. I’m not entirely sure how I feel about that tbh.
Spider Gwen is just a feminist cash cow for female "empowerment." She is such a predictable girl boss it makes it hard to give a shit about her in the Spiderverse movies.
@@stormcutter59she’s only popular for her character design. The storyline is elseworlds and I doubt any casual nor serious comic fans know much about her beyond the movies.
It begins and ends with her costume honestly.
A shallow and dead end concept much like the Spider-Verse itself.
@@lukeamparo6586 Totally agree. I hate how DEI has worked to make Miles and Gwen the main Spidermen today. It's so obvious why they do this with how hard they have overshadowed Peter in recent years
@@stormcutter59I see what you mean but it’s time for Peter Parker to sit down, his comics haven’t been good in a long time and there isn’t any more stories left to tell about him. New Ultimate spider man is cool tho we need more of that but if not just retire him and let new guys takeover
@@justpassingthrough854 No its not time for Peter Parker to sit ANYTHING. That's like saying the same thing for every superhero. It just takes a good writer with a good head on his/her shoulders to tell a great story with him. As you said, Ultimate Spiderman is a great example of this. But I kind get what you mean, this present comic in question really sucks now. Irreparable damage has been done
The current state of Amazing Spider-Man is miserable but unfortunately it's especially unlikely to change considering that no matter the controversy, Amazing Spider-Man is consistently the number 1 selling Marvel book. Let's hope Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man has longevity.
We need a Doctor Strange world-reaching telepathic spell to make everyone stop buying it each month
Mary Jane, when written well. As Stan Lee said in the PS4 game "You two always were my favorite."
I love the idea of Peter with Black Cat, but the authors have messed with their relationship to the point where they could never be together. Though at this point that's true with all of them.
Gwen Stacy was Peter Parker's first recreated love, and it was Stan Lee's original intent for Peter and Gwen to get married had Gerry Conway not written "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" while Stan Lee was on vacation. I've always seen Gwen as the "good girl" trope done right and for a Mary-Sue protagonist like Spider-Man, Gwen Stacy would've been the perfect love interest for him. I think that George Stacy gradually figuring out Spider-Man's identity and then trusting him to keep Gwen safe after his death proves that Gwen would've been Peter's perfect match. There's even a comic when Mary Jane admits that she plays catch up to Gwen.
Every time I see something like what you just written it makes me realize how childish editorial and other comic book writers are, because what I see from what you just wrote down is someone who is looking at someone else's toys and then decided to break them,
And what's annoying is that happens a lot where whether it's because of health or they just had to leave for financial physical mental or anything in between the next person that comes along sees the situation and then decides to smash everything and it is so childish.
The whole it was done behind his back has been debunked. Stan only said that in order because of fans weren’t happy Gwen died.
Stan got to appreciate a lot MJ he evem got to give the idea himself of married the two and even one of his last cameo was in spider-man insomniac to the couple. Gwen in comparation of MJ didn't really much develop as a charactel she was a really good girlfriend and hater of spider-man for thinking his dad die for him (and just kinda that) if we compare Gwen and MJ, MJ is way better character in my opinion (whem she is writte in a good way). Peter and MJ don't even have to much things and common and are kinda opposites and they still work (or better say worked).
Stan lee also lied lol. The man said that after fan backlash, that's why not everything he says should be taken 100% seriously in my opinion. I'l believe conway on that one
No I don't believe that.
The Night Gwen Stacy Died forever changed comics. It had such a pivotal influence on the comic industry that I refuse to believe it was done out of some petty impulse by Conway. No not at all. People don't seem to realize this, but Comic book stories were extremely regulated and limited by in the 50s and 60s. Comic book writers actually couldn't write or show death back then. Everything always had to be episodic. Eventually by the late 60s and early 70s, those regulations loosened up. What Gerry Conway did was so big, that it essentially jump-started the Bronze Age of Comics.
This wasn't something Conway could just do on a whim. Conway had to have major editorial oversight to proceed into this territory. Stan Lee was a showman and had a repeated history of exaggerating.
For me personally it always Black Cat and Spider-Man. They just have this chemistry that just seems so unmatched compared to other relationships. Cause Felicia and Peter just have this moral of like you'll never change me Spider and Peter would always contradict her and now she's more hero than theft in the comics. Even the 90s Cartoons portrayed very well
Black Cat is just a knockoff of Catwoman.
@Outlier999 every comic character is a knock off of each other. That's nothing new
If a relationship broke up cause it’s too healthy then I’m not even surprised about divorce rates anymore.
For Black Cat, it's interesting because she's essentially the best side chick you could have. I think if Black Cat would stop being a criminal that she would be the perfect love interest since she can take of herself in most cases. It's just that having Black Cat be Spider-Man's primary love interest might be a bit uncertain because if Felica broke up with Peter because they weren't toxic enough, that tells me that Felica might want to keep her option open. Then you start to remember why she's just a side chick, I think Felcia works best in Spider-Man's life as "the bad girl" something that you want, but you know you don't need.
I agree with this. Having her be the primary love interest takes a way a lot from her character, and rewrites her character in an unsatisfying way the way they've done to MJ.
That's like saying Catwoman is just Batmans "side chick". I think they only write her that way because of the way the current comics are going. If you have ever read "The Evil that Men do", it really shows her growth as a person and the impact Peter had in her life and how much she regrets screwing it up. You see a version of her the truly appreciates him as a whole person and not just the mask. And she doesn't ask him to be something he's not. which removes the usual internal conflict the always has. She would be a perfect supportive partner for him and it would be a very good case for character growth. If only they'd stay the course like in a What if story or an alternative like Renew your Vows.
Side chick?!
How dare you.
Felicia supremacy.
@@LuxBellator92 What…? How…?
Her character has never been "side-chick", they genuinly care about him. This is such an ass take, it’s ridiculous.
Either Chat or Kitty, those would be my answer on the best. Chat was literally perfect for her Peter, even without powers, while Kitty's only problem was that her Peter was still hung up on MJ.
She never was Spider-Man's true love. In house of M, he saw, meet, had a life and shared a final kiss with his true love, Gwen. Im not saying they should bring back gwen. They shouldve never done that. The point of the story is Spider-Man loses his true love. That doesnt mean he cant have other relationships but Gwen will always be his true love
Here's the thing about how Gwen, Black Cat, and MJ are written. Gwen loves Peter but hates Spider-Man, black cat loves the spider but can't bring herself to love the man beneath the mask, and finally MJ when written correctly shows that even with the difficulties that Peter being Spider-Man brings she wouldn't force him to give it up because of the guilt of letting others die for his happiness when in his perspective he could have done something about it.
I will agree that Mary Jane's time in the sun is over. I like how you mentioned Black Cat gives Peter a level of security because she is a capable fighter in her own right. It would be interesting if Peter dated and possibly got into long term relationship with another superhero. Personally, I think Silver Sable relationship could lead to some amazing stories.
Modern day writers have all just destroyed Spider-Man.
I'd say it's more Marvel editorial forcing their ideas on the writers.
Spider-Man isn't the only one they've destroyed.
We can also attribute this to the MCU. I feel like a lot of people don't really want MCU Peter to come back to MJ immediately in the next movie so it would be interesting to see if they will either bring Gwen into the picture or Black Cat swings in and we see Peter in a much more stable relationship. The worst and funniest thing we get in the MCU is MJ is with a guy named "Paul".
It's sad that Betty Brant is so forgotten, she was Peter's actual first love.
I've never been a fan of MJ personally. I've been Gwen fan and a Felicia fan. But MJ has always been a stepping stone love interest in my opinion that can't leave due to tension. We also need to remember that we live in a time where marriage and healthy relationships are seen as either stifling or built on lies...
It's Johnny Storm
LMFAO
They might as well at this point 🤷🏿♂️😅
Nah, it’s should be Free Guys. The only one truly care for Pete. Bro-mance > Romance
@@NamelessPassenger gross
Chat Sanduval is the definition of perfection partner to Peter
I personally love the idea of either Felica(Black Cat) or Silvija Sablinova (Silver Sable) for Spiderman(Peter Parker)
Team Felicia for life
I recently realised that spidey has been fighting a drug addiction.... Mary Jane is another name for weed right? Is that why he keeps going back to her toxic ass? he keeps relapsing
The symbiote,it literally does everything Peter wants and even takes control of his body to fight crimes when he is asleep
I personally don't believe Peter and Gwen would stay together. Don't forget, she blamed Spider-Man for the death of her father and that killed any plans Peter had of telling her his secret identity. If he can't share literally half of his life with her than what chance did they have? At best they would have to breakup for a time before getting back together and at worse she'd end up being another person Peter is close to that turned supervillain.
The new ultimate comics has proven that mj and pete to be so great together.
I will always maintain Mary jane and Peter parker are meant to be together as a married couple and having them be a family along side there daughter mayday parker Spider-girl and their son Benjy parker along there side, because them being a couple and having family is the best thing for this couple and makes sense for Spider-Man peter parker & Mary jane in my opinion. :)
6:45 “Worse she can say is no”
In the movie Gwen is my favorite
Mine too...
When they are written as intended? Yes. Mary Jane is the true love of Peter Parker. Full stop, no exceptions.
We don't talk about post-OMD filth. Period.
One More Day made me stop reading Spider-man 🤷♂ They simply don't want Peter to be settled with something stable in his life. I think that Marvel wants to send a certain message for which if you like Spiderman and want to be inspired by him, than you must learn that your life will be miserable and you'll never be happy.
I say that the relationship with black cat is really the only avenue at this point...
The success of ultimate Spider-Man proves at last without a shadow of a doubt that we (the fans) want Peter aka spider-man to get married, settle down, and stay that way
But on earth 616 Mary Jane just isn't the person she could have been. Earth 616 mary jane just became a entirely different person than the Mary Jane from the new ultimate universe due to having entirely different experiences past a certain point.
If they want earth 616 Spider-Man to stay relevant they need to try to establish that same kinda life for him and make a company policy that spider-man keeps his marriage with whoever he ends up with under any and all circumstances...
But earth 616 Pete just can't end up with his MJ because she has been ruined as a character, the best, and perhaps only option, is black cat...
If black cat needs that excitement, then there are ways to write that in, maybe it could be like a game, her still trying to corrupt him even though they are married, and he always tries to resist the corruption, but they both agree that either way they stay married regardless. Maybe part of the agreement could be that if she manages to get something he considers immortal (just to clarify immortal by the standards of when they get married she is trying to corrupt him after all) past his moral compass she could then cash that in to go steal something without him trying to stop her or telling someone else who would.
Pete could agree on with his train of thought being "that will never happen, she won't manage to corrupt me, and i get her as my wife". Maybe they could have it as some kinda magical marriage contract, with these details included in a way that both of them are happy with. that way neither of them CAN break it, because it isn't even possible. after all this is black cat aka Felicia Hardy we are talking about...
Yes, She has been since she was introduced back in ASM #42
When it comes to Peter love interest MJ is the number 1 person at the top of the list. Gwen and Felicia don’t compare.
I thought i saw an interview with Stan at one point that he said that Gwen was the one he was always meant to be with and then she died and he will never be with the one he TRUELY was meant for. Im a Black Cat simp personally but they have made MJ and Pete so iconic.
2:11 In my humble opinion before watching any more of the video I personally believe that Gwen Stacy is his greatest love as well as his greatest loss if it weren't for Gwen's death Peter and MJ never would have gotten together It was Gwen's death that pushed them towards that path with her helping grieving Peter I feel if she hadn't died they would have gotten married and had kids and everything but also I think him and MJ would still have become friends and if anything I think they would have been like best friends
In the comic House of M you can see Gwen and Peter married.
I just realized how Stan Lee really loves the pairing of Peter and MJ. I wonder how he would feel about this.
@@morxsum693 he got them married again in his newspapee strips and thought the comics would remarry then again at some point. So i doubt he would like it
PeterGwen 10/10 ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
It's Gwen.
In the House of M story where basically most all of the heroes were granted thier "wish" life. Peter was married to and very happy with Gwen. If I remember correctly, Pete was devastated when his real memories were unlocked and he had to admit it was a false reality.
Peter and MJ work for me under main continuity-specific circunstances, mainly that they were initially supperficially attracted to each other and latter fell in love and that she was the first person to know his identity.
I'd be ok with adaptations using other love interests, honestly.
My issue with Gwen Stacey is that she has with almost glossy shine to her 70's character, that I don't think traslate well to older Peter's more stressed career as a hero
Webb's version of Gwen is amazing. However, the character is given scientific abilities, which balance with kind and caring nature to make her more interesting
Chat from marvel adventures Spider-Man, is the best love interest
She's from an alternate reality tho and not from the main marvel universe but other than that they're so good together in the marvel adventures universe
And yeah they're talking about who is Peter's one true love not the best love interest
True love is built, "love at first sight" is just a temporary infatuation.
Honestly, the best spider-man love interest is Sophia Sanduval, also known as Chat from 2005 series, "Marvel adventures spider man", issues 53 to 61. (Previous issues are from different author and irrelevant to the story).
No dying due to reminder of how physics work, sheer empty ungratefulness and drama, ,deals with literal satan or fucking Paul. Just wholesomeness.... That was of course stopped from continuing.
In black cats defense she threw up because she found out the guy she had feelings for was actually a minor when she was an adult
I would have said mj up until a few months ago, but I can't deny that when black cat and Spider-Man are together, it does tickle a few brain cells.
I really like Liz Allen from Spectacular and Far from Home.
They're good characters and a really good relationship, but in both continuities, Peter Parker messes up emotionally and Spider-Man arrests her family members.
Happy 1 Year Anniversary Dudes
I will always have hope for black cat
I’ve always stood by the idea of Gwen Stacy being the one that would have been his one and only love if she had lived. Mj is and always will be his best friend and Wife, the one who completely gets him and supports him throughout. And Felicia is the one that could’ve been in the same boat as Mj but she has an addiction for making trouble and rarely settles down. That being said Felicia and peter’s most recent time as a couple could’ve led to a genuine, honest and loving relationship but zebb wells is a fucking mess with his storytelling
The mutual breakup between Spidey and Black Cat is actually great, they just grew bored of each other and went their sperate ways, I've been through that and its nostlagic lol
For me my favorite love interest for Peter would have to be Silk. I mean she has a connection with Pete being bitten by the same spider as him. She's a superhero who can easily take care of herself and lastly the both of them thanks to their spider powers are naturally attracted to each other. Like she's the pretty much the best girlfriend for the dude same powers, a superhero, a connection to each other come on marvel.
From the outside looking in, it sounds a Lil too convenient. Bit strange.
Ya know?
I'm sure it's less odd in the comics, but hearing sparse details makes it sound weird.
@@Touriquette It is weird and its brought up in the comics, they couldnt control their attraction because of being bitten by the same spider...There wasnt any real personal relationship between the two
Most of that is just pheromones making them go nuts for each other. Not really a legit relationship
@@Touriquettethe silk pairing in general is not good. Her fans hate it and like how her comics got better the more distanced she is from him , honestly, I don't blame them lol.
Alright this vid earned y'all a subscription because this is actually a really good video and I'm surprised y'all arent' a way bigger channel.
What about silk?
Yes
Or Carol Danvers
thats what im saying
As someone introduced to Spiderman through the 90s animated series, I have to admit that I am very biased towards Felicia/Black Cat.
I would just really, *really* love if Black Cat could be a love interest in the live action movies too. I feel like a romance with her and Tom Halland's take would contribute to cementing him as an older, more mature person. Also, would love for her to be the new main love interest if we ever got an Amazing Spiderman 3.
The new ultimate Spider-Man is so relatable I think he should be the new Spider-Man blueprint
I don't read comics but iv seen the movies and different shows. I guess that's love sometimes from both sides. i think gwen's is always portrayed as the healthiest but mj is always the iconic duo and that's just always the formula to the hero peter he's always the most relatable and in the end goes down the path of becoming a true hero even if he starts out like one of us. He's not a selfless person and he still does all this. it's what makes him one of the few hero's everyone wants to keep up with.
My opinion in order: Black Cat, Gwen Stacy, and MJ (the reason is exactly the reason you were talking about in the video)
2:03 I see someone appreciates Aroma-sensei
At least Deadpool tries to make Spider-man happy.
YES. With a better writer/editor who doesn't intentionally write Mary Jane and Peter out of character. They are each other's one true love, the Lois and Clark of Marvel. 616 ASM can still be fixed.
i loved Kitty and Spider man from ultimate universe, it's such a shame peter just cheated on her with mj
To me the best way to go about Peter's relationships is to of course start with Gwen. Gwen should be an important figure in Peter's life, his first true love. Then after her death, like in the original comics have Mary Jane step up and mature from her party gal persona, and become a stable rock of support in Peter's life. Black cat and Spiderman fool around a bit here and there, but never really get serious. My head cannon being peter tried to make a move, but Felicia refused due to not being able to comprehend a relationship with the regular guy underneath the mask. A choice she later regrets as Peter and MJ get married, however she still makes the effort to get to know Peter and becomes somewhat of a sister figure to him. Leaving us off with Peter and Mary Jane Happily married, Gwen gone but never forgotten, and black cat being just a genuinely good friend. If Peter and MJ have kids, I can definitely see Felicia being like a cool aunt to them. But hey, this is just my personal preference.
While were on the topic, I feel Storm and Pete had a great vibe, she'd have been a fantastic older sis type of gf.
Anything's on the table now with PAUL. I'm going for Morrigan x Peter now. Thank you Marvel vs Capcom release for reviving that, especially with the not at all subtle art of them facing each other. Thank you thank you thank you
Interesting note, even though Spiderman TAS (and wider Marvel AU) had a different Pete take, starting with him in college, etc, and no Gwen Stacy, it was interesting in the finale, where multiverse of Peter Parkers as Spiderman (with a note of one not) had to work together to stop a hell world created by Spider-Carnage Peter. I was shocked back then because when they went to the world of a Peter who was arrogant, rich from being a hero and a leading scientist, had Fisk as his lawyer (!), etc etc, in a world where nothing had gone wrong for Peter - Gwen was alive, and they were about to be married. Tells you something, I guess.
But yeah, guess Im at heart a Felicia stan. And if we wanna talk about how SHE'S been ruined over the decades. Built up, ruined. Built up, ruined. They even had a nice angle with Felicia in TAS, in that she was interestingly, friends with Peter and friends beforehand, so not much if any of the "I only love Spiderman, blargh on Pete".
Sadly, the web-head's "True Love" is the pain that the higher-ups at Marvel puts him through. Doesn't matter if it's in video games, movies, different comic continuities, the pain always finds him.
Spider-Man was my favorite superhero for growing up and I haven’t read it in years…and I don’t even feel bad about it.
When they were talking about Peter and Felicia breaking up because their relationship wasn't toxic enough I was thinking "What kind of fucked up relationships have comic writers been in to think a couple being happy, healthy and loving means it's time to break up."
I like him with Black Cat personally, I think the two make a good combo.
Bro the mary jane in spectactular spiderman was just the best thing ever happend in every movie
Wouldnt be Gwen. It's only MJ and Pete because thats who the franchise always pushed Peter to be with. But in all reality wouldnt be Gwen regardless or not if she dies. Yeah, Gwen may not have the same witty personality as MJ but she someone Pete loved and saw a future with.
A bit late to the party but I agreed I honestly love the idea was Spider-Man and Black Cat together. And I also agree with the fact that how they broke up is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I've heard a lot of things about how the writers think that him not having a good relationship is relatible to readers. And I just want to see him be happy at the end of the day.
Sophia "Chat" Sanduval the real one
Different Spider-Mans should have different love interests and not just Mary Jane… like they seem so attached to her like a fucking parasite without any care if it’s good for that version of Peter
If I were to write a new Spider-Man comic run, I'd make him end up with Gwen, she has always been his true love
At this point none of them work anymore… and writing wise the stuff that has happened there is no coming back from it. Realistically you could have Spiderman start becoming bitter, stop pulling his punches, and really descend into being an antagonist or an anti hero. As for love interest someone new is needed, someone unlikely and not really considered.
3:31 I don't. When she was alive there wasn't much to Gwen beyond "Peter's girlfriend." Her death has made her seem more interesting and important than she actually was.
I think its a split as MJ (the older versions of MJ) / Not dead Gwen is the love of the normal side of Peter and Black Cat is the love of the Spiderman side of Peter. Its weird though as MJ is the one that springs to mind at first when I think of Peter's Girlfriend. Black Cat I kind of feel is the better one since she's a partner that can actually understand both halves of Peter, and they can actually kind of push each other into a better version of each other.
i think a key fact you may have over looked is that gwen is the only one we know 100% would have still loved him with or without the powers. SHE for sure is his real true love, MJ is Easily his worst writers or not, and Black cate is just a personal favorite lol
Spiderman has a serious flanderizetion problem
Have they done a crossover where Spider-Gwen has met with a younger Peter Parker (like ultimate spiderman)? I feel like that would be funny since both iterations have the same humor.
I've always had a thing for Black Cat. I know MJ is Peter's true love but Felicia just does something for me. I also like Catwoman for Batman so that probably says something about me.
breaking up because you have a healthy relationship literally speaks volumes about the state of society
To me Black Cat is the definitive love interest. Spider-Man TAS has biased me on that admittedly, but that is how I feel about it.
HAPPY 1 YEAR OF COMIC LADS!
Freakin love your vids
Chat from Spider-Man marvel adventures has the best couple moment ive ever seen it has ups and down just like normal relationship but it is still such a great couple to me
If we are talking about all versions of Spider-Man. Then I'd go with Chat, a mutant from one of the alternate runs on Peter Parker. Or if we want to talk what I think could be endgame? Either Black Cat, or we actually let Gwen Revive with Super-powers, let her join in on the fun. I feel like what MJ did kind of kills the ship to a significant degree. We need like a universe reboot to pull it off.
Though personally, I liked the 161 universe romantic implications the most. Where Rogue seemed to have a thing for Peter, in part because Peter didn't reject her new appearance, after having swapped core powers with Nightcrawler, thus turning into a similar appearance to him whil he turned normal. Sadly that universe was about the X-men, so they didn't keep him around for more then a single issue.
It's been hard for spider man fans because the writers just don't want him to be happy.
Spiderman and black cat could be the marvel equivalent to batman and catwoman but no a healthy relationship with 2 people respecting each other that can stop the other from going to far is bad.
7:40 completely agree, the whole reason was essentially i like you the way you are and i'm not trying to change you, which is bad??
Chat from the Marvel Adventures line.
Nah Peter and chat is top to me
Gwen should stay in the past and Spider-Gwen should be with Miles
MJ should either be a loving, supporting character or be with ... Paul.
Black Cat should most definitely be the new trend, possibly having Felicia fall for Peter during like a study session or something (in college) and Cat flirting with Spidey until they finally go for it and they recognize the kiss, realizing who each other is, revealing their secret identities.
Honestly a fun dynamic, Cat and Spidey flirting while Felicia and Peter have just begun dating and the accidental identity reveal.
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if the comics and the movies sort of take this route where I always believe or the films. Toby‘s true love is Mary Jane. Andrew is Gwen Stacy, although he’s unfortunately dead so maybe travel to a different universe and another Gwen Stacey OK Andrew, and I would like Tom Holland’s future love interest after MJ to be either Felicia or Carly. Since probably never get 616 Peter to date MJ again why not to stick with Felicia. I mean, if the ultimate comics are all we’re gonna ever get with Peter being with MJ you might as well just let 616. Keep someone else.
"Ugh my leg... my... My feelings...!"
-Spider-Man
Felica also likes Morbuis too
Finally someone appreciate Black Cat as the best girl Spider ever have, as i do!))
Gwen Stacy is the love of Peter Parker's life, but she got killed by the Green Goblin. It's one of the most defining moments of the conflict between Peter and Spider-Man.
Spider-Man and Black Cat's romance is pretty much Marvel's equivalent of Batman and Catwoman.
It's sad, really. MJ used to be THE ONE until Zeb Wells's run. Gwen Stacy has forever had her relationship with Peter tarnished after "Sins Past," despite its being retconned. And Black Cat is cursed to always be in an on-again, off-again kind of relationship with Peter because the writers just don't want them together either.
You ask me who I think Peter's "true love" is? It's pain. But really, his most stable relationship he's ever really had was surprisingly with Sophia "Chat" Sanduval, a mutant from Marvel's Avengers: Spider-Man from 2009.