The lack of development of British high speed rail transport infrastructure and its links with continental Europe has many parallels with the demise of the British car industry.
I think it stems from WW2, a sense of islandism and somehow specialness in the face of the loss of the Empire, a reluctance to embrace Europe and its many cultures, and a hard coded steal from the poor and give to the rich classism.
@@robtyman4281 I think they're more than anti rail; they're anti investment. They are entirely focussed on short term profits and asset stripping and have no concern for future investment.
@@Bungle-UK with only 38% percent of your rail network being electrified, as well as the hs2 shitshow, I doubt that. Even small countries such as belgium or the netherlands have more km of high speed rail.
@@RichardFraser-y9t not just the government of the UK but the rest of Europe too. we could do so much more to put up a fierce campaign to encourage people to go by rail, and to reduce the problems that railways in Europe (Britain included) face today. remember it was thru aggressive campaigns that low cost carriers like Ryanair won the public.
@@chrisj9700in France, for example, internal flights are banned where there is a high speed line. I’ve travelled on French (and German) high speed lines at a very competitive price. Much cheaper than you’d pay in the UK. We could make UK rail faster and cheaper if we had the political will.
"Largely cut off" The ongoing tragedy of British railway development in the late 20th & 21st centuries continues. We're destined to keep creating half-finished pieces of line which don't create a meaningful system, leaving critics to shout "it's not profitable - we should cut it"
It's quite strange to see such a project seeming to have been planned and designed to fail in retrospect. Looking at failures to meet cost and schedule goals I don't know whether it's done much better in Germany or not. But, at least, projects are rarely crippled in such a way that they end up with barely a chance of reaching a purpose ever.
@@michaelburggraf2822 The UK lacks a strategic vision of rail - successive conservative governments have sought to dismantle any idea that the state should look at any infrastructure as a whole. We are a chaotic shambles and will continue to be so for generations while we continue to re-elect these morons.
The whole reason why Conservatives cut things short so that exact argument is made but at the same time, they have something to show but at a huge waste of money... If things like HS2 were completed in full including the HS1 HS2 link - These 2 projects together would be a gold mine... But its not the oil lobby making the money, the only lobby Tories seem to care about...
Why should people who never or hardly use rail travel subsidise it via tax? I’ve been travelling for the last few month at least once a week between Liverpool and Euston for work and the trains have been, at most, only half full. The shift from 5 days office working to WFH has changed the rail industry forever. People complaining the network is busy at weekend for leisure travel is laughable when many have been sat at home during the working week. Why should the taxpayer subsidise peoples’ leisure time?
Don't forget Stratford International, the ironically named station since it has never had an international service stop there and was built to allow services to stop in London on their way to other destinations in the UK. As far as holes in the ground go, it's one of my favs but worth £200million; probably not.
Or Ashford International, which was open for a few years, but closed during Covid, and hasn't reopened. Maybe by 2025, but probably not. Now, I have to get a train to London, (70 miles away) to get a train to France. (20 miles away.) I'm in east Kent.
@@sarkybugger5009 I think the government only built Ashford Int. in order to pretend there was some benefit to Kent for all the disruption and construction of HS1 and the first opportunity they got to shut it down, they did.
@@sarkybugger5009absolutely; additionally, the cost of travel to St Pancras on Southeastern for an early Eurostar to connect for travel further into Europe is staggering....
It genuinely makes me angry to see how the potential of a *direct rail link to continental Europe* has been squandered over the past few decades, it could be an incredible asset for transport decarbonisation but even after 30 years it seems like nobody's learned anything, especially given the the lack of connection between HS1 and HS2.
Well….. HS2 will connect to HS1 via London transport. Connection both is kinda an impossibility without massively remodeling londons termini, in addition to getting the tunnels to fit inbetween the tube, the Elizabeth line, and the regular waterworks
@@corpsimmons575the whole point of a link would be to bypass the two termini though, and a link connecting the two lines was even considered when HS2 was being planned. It's not going to be convenient for international/south-east passengers to walk or take the tube between Euston and St Pancras, especially for those with luggage. Plus, the capacity argument against international trains on HS2 is weaker now that Phase 2 is cancelled and Euston has been shrunk.
A brilliant illustration of how successive British governments have been pathetic, shortsighted and inept (and corrupt) in their continuing failure to deliver an integrated public transport network for its citizens, visitors and businesses, and to miss just about every economic opportunity this should have brought to the nation. The Victorians would wet themselves laughing at how useless this country has become since their heroic efforts.
Well said. 👍 Fragmentation and asset stripping of national infrastructure by privatisation. Leaving nothing at the centre to remain an informed client. Nimbyism, profiteering……..you could go on, an on😡
It’s a lack of adaption and concrete leadership. GBR hopes to at least give the railways better leadership than the DfT, but by in large, the issue is Britain (like Russia) hasn’t really adapted to losing their empire nor the fact that they are continually chasing short term profit to feign the image of their empire, which inevitably leads to economic downturns and ruin. A product of the times, where companies would rather string together short term profit plans rather than invest in the future properly.
successive Conservative governments. Things actually started to improve under Labour, then as soon as the Tories came back it was just more of the same. Surprise surprise.
@@corpsimmons575 What the heck does political short-termism and mismanagement of the railways have to do with loss of the empire? Which btw happened several decades before any of these problems we are discussing here became an issue...?
Wet themselves laughing? Only its a crying shame. It's like every lesson they learned on how to get things right has been squandered. It's not funny, it's sad. Really sad.
I used to see these Regional Eurostars in 2002/03 between Wakefield Westgate and Leeds bearing the GNER and Eurostar liveries. Great work Ruairidh MacVeigh in providing a summary of what went wrong in the British railways industry since the 90s.
There once was a point where passengers were prioritised. In the early 1900s, most railways focused on having the best carriages and passenger service.
Very true. They just don’t have the foresight, or the imagination to realise that good public transport links (rail, tram, bus etc.) are essential to economic growth. UK governments are blinkered.
@@marionbloom1218How? New Labour set up Network Rail and that saved people from DYING!!! Despite the shit the rail infrastructure is with this country, network rail successfully stopped people dying from privatisating our rail infrastructure to having some of the safest rail infrastructure in the world.
Really interesting….and relevant for me. Was on Bromley South station when last Night Ferry service passed by…..was also at Bromley when Eurostar services trundled their way through before HS1 line commissioned. Now in Manchester and part of team upgrading what is still known as MID (Manchester International Depot)
It must be the most underused depot in railway history! I was the first guard to work a train out of there while it was still a Eurostar depot. It was the first regional railway train from Birmingham to Manchester airport, and was stored in the depot for security reasons.
Very interesting presentation! I've been a lifelong train buff, but to be honest, I never really have followed the eurostar evolution! I'm, however, not surprised to see its another good old British cock up?
Excellent summary of quite a frustrating state of affairs. The thing that gets me is all the engineering and socioeconomics works - the only reason high speed rail in the UK is struggling is a lack of industry coordination and a total absence of political leadership. This should really be an open goal to massively improve connectivity (with huge economic benefit across the UK) whilst reducing environmental impact of transport (in the context of the ongoing climate emergency).
I remember seeing the GNER sets, in the mid-to-late 2000s. Even rode in one on the short hop between Leeds and Wakefield. They were smooth, riders, and gave a feeling of a less constricted passenger cabin.
The platform allocations at Leeds always baffled me. The sets would have fit in platform 8, but were almost always sent into Platform 1 which meant everyone in the three carriages at the London end having to walk down the train in order to alight.
Regional Eurostar was a great idea but what was better was when GNER took lease of a few units and used them to increase capacity on the ECML between Leeds and London.
Class 37 on a sleeper..?? No ones getting any kip then... 🤣 A very informative yet somewhat depressing video highlighting how badly mismanaged the UK is over rail.. 😥 We're supposed to have invested the dam things too...
The inconvenience of getting to and from airports, the traffic jams, etc, sometimes creates so much headache that train service would be preferable. What a story. As always, thanks.
If there wasn't such severe regulations DB might have been successful with their proposed ICE Service between London and Frankfurt. Or even that company that was going to use Ex Postal TGV's to operate a parcel service through The Channel Tunnel. Sadly they didn't come to being or even that Nightstar service at least the coaches built for such haven't gone to waste as they now are all in Canada. Anyway a rather informative clip to see out 2023 and Happy New Year to you and your family Rory.
Now that those trains are almost all withdrawn - I want to make my Transport Tycoon days a reality and run Eurostar power heads with long freight trains.
im just waiting for a proper Eurostar add-on for TSC (the only one im aware of is kinda crap and there is one for MSTS) so that at some point we can just drive it on any line we want basically
This situation will continue for as long as successive British governments buckle at the knees to the demands of the vocal minorities. If they had the guts of their European counterparts in places like France and Germany to just build the infrastructure and ignore the idiots, letting people realise when it's complete just how effective it is and, meanwhile, avoiding costly and time-consuming public consultations, getting the work done on time and to inflation adjusted budget, then we'd be in a much better place now, and might even still have HS2 North on the cards.
For passenger trains, it is all brand new, and freight trains use the existing network. The booking service is excellent. I was able to book seats for two months of travel and pay for them sitting here at home. There were no problems whatsoever. This is a sorry tale of U.K. ignorance, incompetence, and sheer bloody-mindedness. Apart from the waste of money. That's my rant over 😂.
Around the the turn of the century, I was a young child living in a Kent town called Staplehurst. I was at the station on several occasions when a Eurostar blasted past, horn toots as they passed whistle signs on their approach. Until HS1 opened, Kent ran entirely on third rail until you got closer to London. It was quite spectacular to the
Thank you Ruairidh for such a comprehensive tale of woe! I'd forgotten half of the unedifying saga and knew not of the rest. One day in the future we might get our act together... we can but hope!
Fond memories of the 00s when I was a York-KXX 1st class commuter and would randomly board a Eurostar set. They were roomier but the full Silver Service dinner in the restaurant car on the GNER sets was way more fun, especially when Chef was in a bad mood. The 2for1 drinks and free half bottle of red for GNER Gold Card holders meant every journey was enjoyable #goodolddays
nice vid. I worked on the Eurostar from 1994 until it moved in 2007. I recognised some of the faces. I would just like to point out that UK Border Agency did not exist until 2005, Immigration and Customs did. Under the CTA it was a requirement of controls both by the French. the Belgians and the British to have security controls. As to demand, it was an impossible dream and in fact one could fly from Edinburgh to London City quicker than the the train could run-even if a Sleeper made timings somewhat questionable. The final nail was the timings through the tunnel, which were flighted as they had to cope with Passenger, RoRo and freight. I make the Point because we were dealing with Paris, Brussels inwards and out which made roughly four trains per hour as well as the other requirements and the tunnel fire that occurred ( I can't remember the year, unfortunately) meant that what running there was meant that only one Portal on the French side could be used. The final point was that on the continent it was funded by state as opposed to the British tradition of private investment. Unfortunately Thatcher has been used as a Whipping stool for the fact that we did not rebuild our railways after the war-when it was nationalised.
It's a shame that after such a short time of operation the Amsterdam connection is getting cut for half a year during construction at Amsterdam Centraal, Eurostar did not want to operate the trains upto Rotterdam instead, people will now have to use other means of travel like Eurostar red (former Thalys) or the dutch ic direct* for high speed lines or the traditional rail network for those wanting to save money * A new service is planned to operate at this time with the new ICNG-B trains that skips Breda, Noorderkempen, Antwerpen Berchem and Brussels north and central, this service is planned to run 4 times a day each way
I don’t think it’s fair to say “Eurostar did not want to operate the trains up to Rotterdam instead”. Rotterdam’s cross-channel lounge and passport control zones are not big enough to be the terminus for the whole Netherlands, so trains would have had to run nearly empty. I imagine there might be limited platform capacity to act as a cross-channel terminus as well.
@@petergilbert72 it was still Eurostar that refused to run these trains, the dutch government actively tried to look for solutions to keep the services coming to the Netherlands, I don't think the station capacity at Rotterdam itself was a problem however as it's the 3rd largest station in the country, the only real factor would have been the border facilities and waiting area, they could however still do the old system of running trains with inbound passengers to Amsterdam, then run empty to rotterdam to pick up the limited amount of passengers they can from there and then continue to Brussels to fill up train, along with that the building at Amsterdam is not very large either and would also cause limited passenger capacity
From what I gather, they're basically going to revert to what they did when the service started - run through to Amsterdam on the way out and operate separate Amsterdam-Brussels and Brussels-London services on the way back
@@petergilbert72however, the Eurostar "lounge" at Amsterdam Centraal is woefully small, overcrowded and lacking in facilities, including seats, so it's clearly in need of re-building. As far as I know, it can't handle the number of passengers wishing to use the service, which unbalances the supply relative to the demand.
This is where the closure of so many railway networks from the beaching axe gets put into heavy questioning yes the purpose was to cut back and save money but the fact is those underuse railway networks and corridors have made up a good connection from the south of England to the north towards scotland
Beeching was not responsible. He only compiled a report. The Labour Party closed most of the unprofitable lines. The responsible minister being Barbara Castle.
@@SuperMikado282 Had Beeching actually given a factually correct report? Many say he hadn't, that stations were busier than reported. Congested roads don't have much traffic volume on them if you look when it's quiet.
Don't blame Beeching for the "Beeching cuts". It was then transport minister Ernest Marples that was the real villain. He set Beeching up as the fall guy by setting his terms of reference so that the outcome of his analysis was a foregone conclusion. Why? So his family company Marples Ridgway could get the contracts for building the new motorways that would be required for all the cars people would have to buy once forced off the railways. Possibly the crookedest, most disgraceful minister we have ever had, he raped the nation of its assets and still we are struggling today because of him. And Marples never even paid the tax he owed on these profits, doing a midnight flit to Monaco when HMRC were catching up with him! Beeching wrote a second report on the need to invest more in trunk routes, but this got buried because it didn't suit Marples' needs. Beeching also started Freightliner, the containerised freight service that saved freight traffic on UK railways.
I was the guard on the first passenger train to use Manchester Eurostar depot! A class 309 set was stored there overnight before the official opening of the southern chord from Wilmslow to the airport. We went empty to Birmingham,and took passengers to the airport. I remember our 4car 309 slowly passing the Eurostar set stored on the other road and thinking what a contrast. Shortly after that the regional services were cancelled.
thanks, another interesting piece. My late wife and I used the Eurostar service extensively between 2005 and 2011 when we worked in Belgium and regularly made the journey intially from Waterloo and then from St Pancras. Found it to be a reiiable and ejoyable service and also we used the shuttle service between Folkstone and Calais and drove between Brussels and Aylesbury where we were living for the last 2 years of the time we were out there. Not sure there was ever really going to be the demand for the Nightstar in all realism and regional.... well, if it was ever going to work, it would have done. As you mention though, the lack of a business case was one of the key things that torpedo'd it, not that the HS2 fanboys would recognise what one of those was......... /sarc
Took the Eurostar London to Brussels back in 1995. Awesome. I do remember getting an ironic kick out of the fact that a multimillion Pound trainset capable of 300kph kept having to stop for the 5:13 out of Paddington. I assumed it was just delay at having the "real" track installed, never occurred to me the government could actually be blasting away at its own foot by doing it on purpose.
@@paulmasterson386 It was hyperbole. I was making up something that SOUNDED like a slow, puddlejumper, local train which keeps stopping and starting. Plus my train left around 09:45 so it was already in Brussels (if not already on the way back) by 5:13.
@@natehill8069 got it! I was a Paddington guard so I was confused. Waterloo was only a temporary solution as there’s no room to build a high speed line without knocking down vast amounts of expensive London housing. Although St Pancras was a longer route it was cheaper to make it the European terminus.
Yes, that is a pair of Mk3 sleeper coaches in DSB Sleeper Train livery. DSB bought 10 SLE from BR in 1988 and classified them as WLABr had them in service until 1997 when all were withdrawn and sold to Angel Trains and returned to England. One was preserved and 2 are known to have been scrapped. These coaches were redundant in the UK but were the ideal length for use on the train ferries across the Great Belt. Once the fixed rail link was completed in 1997 to rail traffic the ferries were no longer needed and the Mk3s became surplus to requirements.
0:49 I've Been On The Eurostar High Speed Express Passenger Train From London In England In The United Kingdom To Disneyland Paris In France Twice From September 2019 And June 2022 Last Year And It Was Super Awesome And A Bit Like British Rail InterCity 125 High Speed Diesel Electric Express Train And It Was A Bit Like The Orient Express Steam Powered Passenger Train As Well Too. Thanks Mate. X
Looking closely at the Nightstar coaching stock, I noticed a few things. 1) The seating is 2+1. 2) All seats face towards the center of the carriage, where there is a luggage stack. 3) All seats have an overhead luggage bin above them oriented transversely! This must be the only time I have ever seen transverse luggage bins on any kind transport. It is a neat idea, though-it enables the person to just reach up to access their stuff.
Eurostar always a magnificent train and Ive been on the Eurostar before some 15 years ago when I was on a school trip to Paris Sadly Eurostar are no longer going to Disneyland Paris Due to the effects of the pandemic And the fall out of the EU brexit
How very British, great possibilities hampered by immediate screwups and dire infrastructure, and class 37s were at one point the only hope! I like 37s but blimey they're hardly a new invention!
We also had regional Eurostar sets running between Brüssels, Lille and Nice in the early 2000’s. They were a bit of a nightmare, and broke down regularly en route and requiring a dedicated staff member un the Train crew capable of fixing any issues that might arise en route. As for the Eurostar services to Bourg St Maurice, they are no longer operating this year, and it seems unlikely they will return.
Great video, really interesting. Thanks. note: "110mph making [the 373s] no better than the class 87s on the West Coast Mainline". The 87s were capable of at least 140mph as were the mk3 coaches. It was the track and signalling that restricted these locomotives to 110mph operation, not the locomotives themselves, similar to the Class 91s on the ECML albeit they could get to 125mph on that route.
Yes you were…if you weren’t interested in gaining unusual track mileage around north and west London. I was and I travelled on it. Extremely interesting route on a HST.
Nicely crafted; very informative; depressingly familiar to anyone trying the be "green" in travel options but without being beggared around with London connections and the current British diseas of a lack of long-term planning. "Hello, airline bookings? I need to get to Cologne"...
In the nineties Eurostar was supposed to go to Manchester Piccadilly. The site was cleared and space for tracks made, then as now, the north doesn’t deserve a good rail service as the London centric government of any party doesn’t see what London gains from this. No point pushing more freight on the WCML as it’s already full with no spare room. Services through Man Pic are stuck on 2 tracks that have commuter services running literally every 10 minutes so no chance of more trains there. That is why a tunnel under the station was put forward. Stupid government froze at that thought because it would be too expensive. Thing is, there is already some tunnels under Man Picc that were supposed to be the start of an underground system for Manchester to ease road congestion. Government decided they needed a tram system, problem with is, they shut railway lines down and utilised some of that infrastructure to run the trams on. So the roads are even busier and blocked morning and evening, because the loss of rail services into Manchester. The reality is congestion is worse than ever and rail can’t help because what wasn’t used for the tram had roads and house built on it, creating even more traffic! It’s got so bad Network Tail now want to take over a heritage line that was scrapped when the trams were built. The East Lancs Railway ain’t happy about that idea.
I genuinely love your videos but one thing that irks me is your continual misuse of the phrase “domestic” airlines (at 7:34). That just means airline operations wholly within one country. The term you are looking for is “commercial” airlines or just simply “passenger” airlines.
@@that1niceguy246 “Domestic airlines” could be used if you were talking in the context of airlines that operate services wholly within one country, such as saying InterCity between London and Scotland competed with UK domestic airlines, but in this context he’s referring to competition between the UK and the Continent, so by definition that isn’t “domestic”. He uses the phrase “domestic” airlines three times in this video, and on other videos he’s done, when the correct term is “commercial passenger services”, or “civil aviation services”. I will still continue to watch his videos, however, because mostly he’s very informative and has a great voice for the videos. He does a very professional job and deserves the views he gets. It’s just this misuse of the term “domestic airlines” that bugs me.
Very good analysis matching my own research and reporting in railway magazines of the period. You are correct in identifying the Tories’ obsessive Border Controls issue being one of the main factors that hampered the extension of services beyond the core route. There has been so much money wasted as a result. Despite the economics issue the UK ought to be encouraging extension of such through services as part of its contribution to Net Zero. Air travel is highly polluting and Air France now offers internal flights which are actually made by TGV in comparable times.
Its terribly depressing that HS2 has been cut os mich, and that the HS1 link was cut. If it wasnt then there would have been a continuous high speed network from manchester to milan. How incredible it would have been
Connected by service yes, but strictly by lines up to high speed rail standard no. There's a gap in high speed lines in southern france between Perpignan to Montpellier, where TGV and AVE trains both in domestic and international services have to take a scenic but classical nonetheless rail line, shared as well with regional trains and freight (unlike other lines both in Spain or France, which are up to HS standard and/or have exclusive HS service). And if you can get to milan using HS lines, you can take the italian network to Salerno.
I was referring to the comment made by PeterFriedich. But yes, once Lyon Turin is open (and by that time you'll have Milan Venice open most likely, so you can consider that as well, along other Italian and French projects) it will be a formidable network indeed
Given the current renaissance in overnight sleeper train services on the other side of La Manche (put "European Sleeper" or "OBB Nightjet" in your search engine?) this UA-cam article provides yet more painful viewing - the UK could conceivably play an integral role in this exciting concept but again (think HS2?) UK consumers are excluded through a toxic combination of UK govt. inspired incompetence/arrogance/stupidity/short-termism/bureaucracy - tragic!!!
I was a signaller at Norton Bridge when the 373 was carrying out tests on the then BR Network between Norton Bridge and Basford Hall, the tests took place on nights and they were checking that there were no compatability issues with the signalling system, was a massive dissapointment when the regional Eurostars then didnt happen
Quite sad to see the UK even to this day still suffering from the consequences of falling behind during the 2nd Industrial Revolution of 1870-1914 on matters like electrification and upgrading of the rail network and other industries. Those ideas like abandoning a number of cross-London rail schemes including an additional Snow Hill tunnel type mainline tunnel between Euston and Charing Cross stations with the North Western and Charing Cross Railway. Whatever one's thoughts on high-speed rail in the UK, recent efforts have been pretty pathetic to be honest even before the current scrutiny of HS2. What with planners ignoring the reality of a through HS2-HS1 link between OOC and Stratford International, complemented by HS4Air as well as maybe a White City Eurostar scheme-inspired route from OOC to Ashford instead of the palaver of requiring White Elephant termini in central London at Euston and St Pancras connected by way of shuttle buses, people movers or enhanced walking routes.
GNER used to hire some of the Class 373s that were used on London King’s Cross-York and Leeds. I wonder if LNER could have inherited some of them if Eurostar is to replace the Class 373 E300 with new trains. Or maybe Siemens to continue on manufacturing more Class 374 E320. Instead of LNER ordering more new trains since the Class 800 and Class 801 Azumas came into service in 2017/18 I think.
Fascinating to imagine how different the UK would be today had the dream of a hifh speed rail link between the north of england and Europe has been conpleted. Would the people who lived there have felt so distant from Brussels?
To imagine that, if things had gone just a little differently, one could get on a train in Edinburgh, be on that train for maybe a day or two, and then get off the train in Istanbul, is very interesting. Of course, many things would have to be different, but many things nearly were different.
It's ultimately all about costs. Eurostar is a nice comfortable service, but the prices make it a luxury service for getting from London to Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam. Flights are often much cheaper even if the overall journey time is the same from London, so the majority of travellers will simply pick that as the cheapest option. Regional Eurostar from northern England and Scotland would have been uncompetitive versus budget airlines on both price and journey times, so it's not really surprising it was canned in retrospect.
Good video, but very sad that so much opportunity and promise was squandered. And so poignant watching this after the sabotaged HS2 project has been cut back to a useless new line between Curzon Street and Old Oak Common.
😢superb video.what story of missed opportunities.great contentand depth.but rail travel development i euerope will bring improvements to the uk network fo r sure???????
The irony is that if this had been invested in properly and HS2 had been funded, we would have very likely seen regional eurostars in the next 10 years. We'd likely need them too, if we want to reduce our use of heavily polluting air travel. Once again let down by those in charge for short term gain.
I'm hoping to revive this idea with my proposal of the new InterCity 230 Project, a collaboration between FirstGroup and Deutsche Bahn. Once I have the money, I'll buy out FirstGroup, and make them a better company, as they are pretty much the WORST transport company in the country. We'll have Siemens Taurus locos imported from Europe (Germany, Austria, etc.), as well as the existing MK4 coaches working alongside Siemens Viaggio coaches being built for us that are identical to the ones that the new ÖBB Railjet sets have. Another idea would be to import ICE 1 and ICE 2 sets from Germany, and trim platform edges here in the UK to accommodate a wider loading gauge. Let me know what you think!
8 місяців тому
I really like the topic and the style of the video, but the information density was quite low
I wonder where the Eurostar trains were filmed running on the right, since both France and Belgium are left-hand running. I don't think the older 373s run to Amsterdam.
I've always been resentful on the fact that because we did not develop our internal rail network we where overtaken by our European counterparts, what could've been !
What a shambles. 30 years on, they should have London connected by direct rail services to all major European cities by now (Madrid, Berlin, Rome, Vienna, etc…). It could have been awesome! What a shame!
Even the museum under the Shanghai Maglev station acknowleges UK as the origin of rail travel. That resulted from the technological achievements that the Stephenson's used to produce a product fit for purpose. The subsequent centuries of development went hand in hand with the exploration of use which depends on the vagary of travelers and politicians and has never been a forward progression but a constant expensive gamble that has difficulty matching technical evolution to cost. I seldom use trains. Not because I do not like them but the lottery of ticket price never matches my timetable. It is absurdly sad that there is more pleasure viewing what is available from an armchair than making use of the networks.
The transformation of U.K. air services from legacy airlines to low cost with minimal overhead and paperless administration in the mid 90’s killed off Regional Eurostars. Eurostar spent several hundred million on a concept with long journey times compared to Stelios Haji Ioannou spending £5m wet leasing a couple of 737-200s Demand and capacity for travel between U.K. and continental Europe has never been bigger driven by speed and price. Two elements Eurostar appears commercially unviable beyond its single point to point connection.
Intercity high speed rail has been proven in many cases to be a visible alternative to domestic airlines. Don’t forget that these trains mainly deliver you to city centres whereas you’re looking at a 1+ hour journey to get to an airport, plus check in/arrival time plus security. That’s before we add in sleeper options. Overall the time saving with flying is minimal on journeys up to 500km.
@@DIEMLtdTV because that only works if you're anti train and ignore that Train journeys start IN the City while for planes you need first to get out of the city, to the airport in a different city, then the boarding time and then AGAIN the time to get from the Airport to the city, what would be an hour to got from Charles de Gaulle to Gare de l'Est Shure, you could fly from Frankfurt to Paris in an hour, with all the hazzle of flying or just step in an TGV or ICE and be even faster in the end, even faster if you don't want to start or End in Paris or Frankfurt but let's say Reims or Mannheim
@@enisra_bowman I’ve been working in the rail industry since 1999 and travel all over the UK via rail for work I think maintenance-wise, it’s adequate, but projects are still a basket case. You make a sweeping assumption that everyone lives in a city and wants to travel long distances. Most people mainly travel locally unlike me when in 2024 will be travelling for work between Inverness and Southampton all on the train which will be fine and even the food in first class has improved if late.
@@Whatshisname346but we live on an island. Aircraft can go point to point, high speed rail from the UK all has to funnel through Kent and the Tunnel. Whilst your point stands true, there are many exceptions, particularly from the north of the UK. Where flights towards Netherlands and Germany will be mostly over the north sea in a straight line, where the high speed rail version will turn the airlines straight line into a triangle!
When it is said Eurostar is only competitive in London and the South East, I'd mainly say London. In many parts of the south east, it is not competitive, as there is the time and cost of catching a train into London, then often trekking across London on the Underground, before then getting on Eurostar. Parts of the midlands and northern England can get to St Pancras faster than parts of south east England. It's the more interesting and environmentally friendly way to travel, but it takes longer and is more expensive. Oh well, at least our roads are better invested in compared to Europe... oh wait, got that wrong, they're more congested and in a greater state of disrepair. Oh well, at least Folkestone Eurotunnel terminal is nicer than Calais, oh wait, it isn't. Ah, well at least Dover port is a nicer port than Calais port, oh wait, it isn't.
Its a fascinating story - it is depressing though - its almost like the powers that be don't want people outside London to have anything to do with the rest of Europe...........
Great video though it is kinda depressing. There's another thing that I find even more depressing - the low volume of freight traffic from Europe to Britain on through freight trains, as opposed to lorries going on the ferry or on freight shuttles. Things are better regarding deep sea freight, e.g. containers from China or wherever offloaded at East Coast ports onto freight trains, but that's a different subject. With freight from the EU there are several issues to address before a huge shift to rail could happen. They are things your avarage politician would struggle to get his little head around. That's a pity because it's probably one the best ways to reduce the UK's CO2 emmisions. But what I find most depressing is there's not even a small scale shift to rail freight through the Chunnel simply by reducing track access charges.
The lack of development of British high speed rail transport infrastructure and its links with continental Europe has many parallels with the demise of the British car industry.
Expensive and slow.
I think it stems from WW2, a sense of islandism and somehow specialness in the face of the loss of the Empire, a reluctance to embrace Europe and its many cultures, and a hard coded steal from the poor and give to the rich classism.
It's a reflection of the Tories, and their real intentions. They are profoundly 'anti-rail', and have a history of this. It's well documented.
@@robtyman4281 I think they're more than anti rail; they're anti investment. They are entirely focussed on short term profits and asset stripping and have no concern for future investment.
What exactly are the parallels with the car industry?
The utter irony and shame that Britain, being literally the birthplace of trains, has screwed itself over rail development
The Tories have screwed us over Rail wise you mean..
It's always been the Conservatives ripping countries apart.. 😥
Birdlandia (south of Plymouth) is better than Britain at trains and companies.
Screwed itself over how? It still has an extensive network with record passenger numbers and the highest average service speed in the world.
@@Bungle-UK - Now those are the mistruths you speak of.. 🤣
Maybe record passenger numbers before the pandemic that scared you ❄️s into driving... 🤣
@@Bungle-UK with only 38% percent of your rail network being electrified, as well as the hs2 shitshow, I doubt that. Even small countries such as belgium or the netherlands have more km of high speed rail.
Never underestimate the ability for the UK government to half ass the rail industry to suit party politics.
and to be fair... the low cost airline industry of destroying its competition
@@CFRTrainSpotteryep, and to be fair the government can change that.
@@RichardFraser-y9t not just the government of the UK but the rest of Europe too. we could do so much more to put up a fierce campaign to encourage people to go by rail, and to reduce the problems that railways in Europe (Britain included) face today. remember it was thru aggressive campaigns that low cost carriers like Ryanair won the public.
Yeah, because its really that simple isnt it....? FFS.....
@@chrisj9700in France, for example, internal flights are banned where there is a high speed line. I’ve travelled on French (and German) high speed lines at a very competitive price. Much cheaper than you’d pay in the UK. We could make UK rail faster and cheaper if we had the political will.
"Largely cut off"
The ongoing tragedy of British railway development in the late 20th & 21st centuries continues. We're destined to keep creating half-finished pieces of line which don't create a meaningful system, leaving critics to shout "it's not profitable - we should cut it"
It's quite strange to see such a project seeming to have been planned and designed to fail in retrospect.
Looking at failures to meet cost and schedule goals I don't know whether it's done much better in Germany or not. But, at least, projects are rarely crippled in such a way that they end up with barely a chance of reaching a purpose ever.
@@michaelburggraf2822 The UK lacks a strategic vision of rail - successive conservative governments have sought to dismantle any idea that the state should look at any infrastructure as a whole. We are a chaotic shambles and will continue to be so for generations while we continue to re-elect these morons.
The whole reason why Conservatives cut things short so that exact argument is made but at the same time, they have something to show but at a huge waste of money...
If things like HS2 were completed in full including the HS1 HS2 link - These 2 projects together would be a gold mine...
But its not the oil lobby making the money, the only lobby Tories seem to care about...
@@BassandoForteif only there was any semblance of fact or logic in your post.
Why should people who never or hardly use rail travel subsidise it via tax?
I’ve been travelling for the last few month at least once a week between Liverpool and Euston for work and the trains have been, at most, only half full.
The shift from 5 days office working to WFH has changed the rail industry forever. People complaining the network is busy at weekend for leisure travel is laughable when many have been sat at home during the working week. Why should the taxpayer subsidise peoples’ leisure time?
Don't forget Stratford International, the ironically named station since it has never had an international service stop there and was built to allow services to stop in London on their way to other destinations in the UK. As far as holes in the ground go, it's one of my favs but worth £200million; probably not.
Or Ashford International, which was open for a few years, but closed during Covid, and hasn't reopened. Maybe by 2025, but probably not.
Now, I have to get a train to London, (70 miles away) to get a train to France. (20 miles away.) I'm in east Kent.
@@sarkybugger5009 I think the government only built Ashford Int. in order to pretend there was some benefit to Kent for all the disruption and construction of HS1 and the first opportunity they got to shut it down, they did.
@@sarkybugger5009absolutely; additionally, the cost of travel to St Pancras on Southeastern for an early Eurostar to connect for travel further into Europe is staggering....
It genuinely makes me angry to see how the potential of a *direct rail link to continental Europe* has been squandered over the past few decades, it could be an incredible asset for transport decarbonisation but even after 30 years it seems like nobody's learned anything, especially given the the lack of connection between HS1 and HS2.
Well….. HS2 will connect to HS1 via London transport. Connection both is kinda an impossibility without massively remodeling londons termini, in addition to getting the tunnels to fit inbetween the tube, the Elizabeth line, and the regular waterworks
@@corpsimmons575the whole point of a link would be to bypass the two termini though, and a link connecting the two lines was even considered when HS2 was being planned. It's not going to be convenient for international/south-east passengers to walk or take the tube between Euston and St Pancras, especially for those with luggage. Plus, the capacity argument against international trains on HS2 is weaker now that Phase 2 is cancelled and Euston has been shrunk.
A brilliant illustration of how successive British governments have been pathetic, shortsighted and inept (and corrupt) in their continuing failure to deliver an integrated public transport network for its citizens, visitors and businesses, and to miss just about every economic opportunity this should have brought to the nation. The Victorians would wet themselves laughing at how useless this country has become since their heroic efforts.
Well said. 👍
Fragmentation and asset stripping of national infrastructure by privatisation. Leaving nothing at the centre to remain an informed client.
Nimbyism, profiteering……..you could go on, an on😡
It’s a lack of adaption and concrete leadership. GBR hopes to at least give the railways better leadership than the DfT, but by in large, the issue is Britain (like Russia) hasn’t really adapted to losing their empire nor the fact that they are continually chasing short term profit to feign the image of their empire, which inevitably leads to economic downturns and ruin. A product of the times, where companies would rather string together short term profit plans rather than invest in the future properly.
successive Conservative governments. Things actually started to improve under Labour, then as soon as the Tories came back it was just more of the same. Surprise surprise.
@@corpsimmons575 What the heck does political short-termism and mismanagement of the railways have to do with loss of the empire? Which btw happened several decades before any of these problems we are discussing here became an issue...?
Wet themselves laughing? Only its a crying shame. It's like every lesson they learned on how to get things right has been squandered. It's not funny, it's sad. Really sad.
Britains current transport links and relations with our European neighbours have taken decades of work to get to this position.What a triumph......
I used to see these Regional Eurostars in 2002/03 between Wakefield Westgate and Leeds bearing the GNER and Eurostar liveries. Great work Ruairidh MacVeigh in providing a summary of what went wrong in the British railways industry since the 90s.
I love the exterior and interior design of the class 373. That is a well thought out design that still looks good to this day.
Britain screw up public transport at every opportunity. 😌
British governments, especially tory ones.
There once was a point where passengers were prioritised. In the early 1900s, most railways focused on having the best carriages and passenger service.
Very true. They just don’t have the foresight, or the imagination to realise that good public transport links (rail, tram, bus etc.) are essential to economic growth. UK governments are blinkered.
@@alejandrayalanbowman367 Most of this was messed up under Tony Blair's Labour government!
@@marionbloom1218How? New Labour set up Network Rail and that saved people from DYING!!! Despite the shit the rail infrastructure is with this country, network rail successfully stopped people dying from privatisating our rail infrastructure to having some of the safest rail infrastructure in the world.
Really interesting….and relevant for me. Was on Bromley South station when last Night Ferry service passed by…..was also at Bromley when Eurostar services trundled their way through before HS1 line commissioned. Now in Manchester and part of team upgrading what is still known as MID (Manchester International Depot)
It must be the most underused depot in railway history! I was the first guard to work a train out of there while it was still a Eurostar depot. It was the first regional railway train from Birmingham to Manchester airport, and was stored in the depot for security reasons.
I always liked when the Eurostars ran out of waterloo. I found it neat to watch these long trains snake out of london.
Very interesting presentation! I've been a lifelong train buff, but to be honest, I never really have followed the eurostar evolution! I'm, however, not surprised to see its another good old British cock up?
Excellent summary of quite a frustrating state of affairs. The thing that gets me is all the engineering and socioeconomics works - the only reason high speed rail in the UK is struggling is a lack of industry coordination and a total absence of political leadership. This should really be an open goal to massively improve connectivity (with huge economic benefit across the UK) whilst reducing environmental impact of transport (in the context of the ongoing climate emergency).
I remember seeing the GNER sets, in the mid-to-late 2000s. Even rode in one on the short hop between Leeds and Wakefield. They were smooth, riders, and gave a feeling of a less constricted passenger cabin.
The platform allocations at Leeds always baffled me. The sets would have fit in platform 8, but were almost always sent into Platform 1 which meant everyone in the three carriages at the London end having to walk down the train in order to alight.
Regional Eurostar was a great idea but what was better was when GNER took lease of a few units and used them to increase capacity on the ECML between Leeds and London.
Class 37 on a sleeper..?? No ones getting any kip then... 🤣
A very informative yet somewhat depressing video highlighting how badly mismanaged the UK is over rail.. 😥
We're supposed to have invested the dam things too...
Another superb documentary Rory, well done! 👍🏻 👏
Isn't it just!🤩
The inconvenience of getting to and from airports, the traffic jams, etc, sometimes creates so much headache that train service would be preferable. What a story. As always, thanks.
If there wasn't such severe regulations DB might have been successful with their proposed ICE Service between London and Frankfurt. Or even that company that was going to use Ex Postal TGV's to operate a parcel service through The Channel Tunnel. Sadly they didn't come to being or even that Nightstar service at least the coaches built for such haven't gone to waste as they now are all in Canada. Anyway a rather informative clip to see out 2023 and Happy New Year to you and your family Rory.
Now that those trains are almost all withdrawn - I want to make my Transport Tycoon days a reality and run Eurostar power heads with long freight trains.
transport tycoon deluxe where you add extra locos to make the trains even faster. 700kmh eurostars or TGV's! (and 1000kmh+ maglevs)
The days of converting my trains to monorail and finding I still have a steam locomotive I forgot to replace ages ago... Good times.
im just waiting for a proper Eurostar add-on for TSC (the only one im aware of is kinda crap and there is one for MSTS) so that at some point we can just drive it on any line we want basically
I use em in my transport fever maps. They actually sound amazing too.
Ahhh finally we get to nightstar! I remember you pitching this video a couple years ago now. Good to see it come to fruition
What a day to publish this!
This situation will continue for as long as successive British governments buckle at the knees to the demands of the vocal minorities. If they had the guts of their European counterparts in places like France and Germany to just build the infrastructure and ignore the idiots, letting people realise when it's complete just how effective it is and, meanwhile, avoiding costly and time-consuming public consultations, getting the work done on time and to inflation adjusted budget, then we'd be in a much better place now, and might even still have HS2 North on the cards.
Exactly, these naysayers should study and travel on the amazing Chinese high-speed rail network.
For passenger trains, it is all brand new, and freight trains use the existing network.
The booking service is excellent. I was able to book seats for two months of travel and pay for them sitting here at home. There were no problems whatsoever.
This is a sorry tale of U.K. ignorance, incompetence, and sheer bloody-mindedness.
Apart from the waste of money.
That's my rant over 😂.
Around the the turn of the century, I was a young child living in a Kent town called Staplehurst. I was at the station on several occasions when a Eurostar blasted past, horn toots as they passed whistle signs on their approach. Until HS1 opened, Kent ran entirely on third rail until you got closer to London.
It was quite spectacular to the
Thank you Ruairidh for such a comprehensive tale of woe! I'd forgotten half of the unedifying saga and knew not of the rest.
One day in the future we might get our act together...
we can but hope!
Brilliant as ever! But so depressing that we in the UK can’t seem to manage to make the right strategic calls.
Fond memories of the 00s when I was a York-KXX 1st class commuter and would randomly board a Eurostar set. They were roomier but the full Silver Service dinner in the restaurant car on the GNER sets was way more fun, especially when Chef was in a bad mood. The 2for1 drinks and free half bottle of red for GNER Gold Card holders meant every journey was enjoyable #goodolddays
How the hell did GNER contribute more to Economy then any conservative government in my life time
I love the match wagons in use with that Eurostar set @ 4:56!!!!!
Brilliant summarisation of the Eurostar journey. Thank You 👍
Once again you have blown me away with another cracking video mate
Well researched and very well delivered fantastic subject
nice vid. I worked on the Eurostar from 1994 until it moved in 2007. I recognised some of the faces. I would just like to point out that UK Border Agency did not exist until 2005, Immigration and Customs did. Under the CTA it was a requirement of controls both by the French. the Belgians and the British to have security controls. As to demand, it was an impossible dream and in fact one could fly from Edinburgh to London City quicker than the the train could run-even if a Sleeper made timings somewhat questionable. The final nail was the timings through the tunnel, which were flighted as they had to cope with Passenger, RoRo and freight.
I make the Point because we were dealing with Paris, Brussels inwards and out which made roughly four trains per hour as well as the other requirements and the tunnel fire that occurred ( I can't remember the year, unfortunately) meant that what running there was meant that only one Portal on the French side could be used.
The final point was that on the continent it was funded by state as opposed to the British tradition of private investment. Unfortunately Thatcher has been used as a Whipping stool for the fact that we did not rebuild our railways after the war-when it was nationalised.
It's a shame that after such a short time of operation the Amsterdam connection is getting cut for half a year during construction at Amsterdam Centraal, Eurostar did not want to operate the trains upto Rotterdam instead, people will now have to use other means of travel like Eurostar red (former Thalys) or the dutch ic direct* for high speed lines or the traditional rail network for those wanting to save money
* A new service is planned to operate at this time with the new ICNG-B trains that skips Breda, Noorderkempen, Antwerpen Berchem and Brussels north and central, this service is planned to run 4 times a day each way
I don’t think it’s fair to say “Eurostar did not want to operate the trains up to Rotterdam instead”. Rotterdam’s cross-channel lounge and passport control zones are not big enough to be the terminus for the whole Netherlands, so trains would have had to run nearly empty. I imagine there might be limited platform capacity to act as a cross-channel terminus as well.
@@petergilbert72 it was still Eurostar that refused to run these trains, the dutch government actively tried to look for solutions to keep the services coming to the Netherlands, I don't think the station capacity at Rotterdam itself was a problem however as it's the 3rd largest station in the country, the only real factor would have been the border facilities and waiting area, they could however still do the old system of running trains with inbound passengers to Amsterdam, then run empty to rotterdam to pick up the limited amount of passengers they can from there and then continue to Brussels to fill up train, along with that the building at Amsterdam is not very large either and would also cause limited passenger capacity
From what I gather, they're basically going to revert to what they did when the service started - run through to Amsterdam on the way out and operate separate Amsterdam-Brussels and Brussels-London services on the way back
@@petergilbert72however, the Eurostar "lounge" at Amsterdam Centraal is woefully small, overcrowded and lacking in facilities, including seats, so it's clearly in need of re-building. As far as I know, it can't handle the number of passengers wishing to use the service, which unbalances the supply relative to the demand.
One your best most informative & well researched videos always enjoy watching them keep up the good work for 2024!
This is where the closure of so many railway networks from the beaching axe gets put into heavy questioning yes the purpose was to cut back and save money but the fact is those underuse railway networks and corridors have made up a good connection from the south of England to the north towards scotland
Beeching was not responsible.
He only compiled a report. The Labour Party closed most of the unprofitable lines. The responsible minister being Barbara Castle.
@@SuperMikado282 Had Beeching actually given a factually correct report? Many say he hadn't, that stations were busier than reported.
Congested roads don't have much traffic volume on them if you look when it's quiet.
@@SuperMikado282 Marples started it. Castle did soften some of the cuts, but could have done more.
Don't blame Beeching for the "Beeching cuts". It was then transport minister Ernest Marples that was the real villain. He set Beeching up as the fall guy by setting his terms of reference so that the outcome of his analysis was a foregone conclusion. Why? So his family company Marples Ridgway could get the contracts for building the new motorways that would be required for all the cars people would have to buy once forced off the railways. Possibly the crookedest, most disgraceful minister we have ever had, he raped the nation of its assets and still we are struggling today because of him. And Marples never even paid the tax he owed on these profits, doing a midnight flit to Monaco when HMRC were catching up with him!
Beeching wrote a second report on the need to invest more in trunk routes, but this got buried because it didn't suit Marples' needs. Beeching also started Freightliner, the containerised freight service that saved freight traffic on UK railways.
British politics continue to keep the UK an island in all aspects, they are literally isolating the country from a thing known as progress.
"Fog in the Channel, Continent isolated"
I was the guard on the first passenger train to use Manchester Eurostar depot! A class 309 set was stored there overnight before the official opening of the southern chord from Wilmslow to the airport. We went empty to Birmingham,and took passengers to the airport. I remember our 4car 309 slowly passing the Eurostar set stored on the other road and thinking what a contrast. Shortly after that the regional services were cancelled.
Excellent documentary once again ❤
Ironic a legit international service was scuppered by border force…rubber boat 10 Eurostar 0…😭
thanks, another interesting piece. My late wife and I used the Eurostar service extensively between 2005 and 2011 when we worked in Belgium and regularly made the journey intially from Waterloo and then from St Pancras. Found it to be a reiiable and ejoyable service and also we used the shuttle service between Folkstone and Calais and drove between Brussels and Aylesbury where we were living for the last 2 years of the time we were out there.
Not sure there was ever really going to be the demand for the Nightstar in all realism and regional.... well, if it was ever going to work, it would have done. As you mention though, the lack of a business case was one of the key things that torpedo'd it, not that the HS2 fanboys would recognise what one of those was......... /sarc
Took the Eurostar London to Brussels back in 1995. Awesome. I do remember getting an ironic kick out of the fact that a multimillion Pound trainset capable of 300kph kept having to stop for the 5:13 out of Paddington. I assumed it was just delay at having the "real" track installed, never occurred to me the government could actually be blasting away at its own foot by doing it on purpose.
The 05.13 out of Paddington? How could that get in the way of a train leaving Waterloo?
@@paulmasterson386 It was hyperbole. I was making up something that SOUNDED like a slow, puddlejumper, local train which keeps stopping and starting.
Plus my train left around 09:45 so it was already in Brussels (if not already on the way back) by 5:13.
@@natehill8069 got it! I was a Paddington guard so I was confused. Waterloo was only a temporary solution as there’s no room to build a high speed line without knocking down vast amounts of expensive London housing. Although St Pancras was a longer route it was cheaper to make it the European terminus.
Yes, that is a pair of Mk3 sleeper coaches in DSB Sleeper Train livery. DSB bought 10 SLE from BR in 1988 and classified them as WLABr had them in service until 1997 when all were withdrawn and sold to Angel Trains and returned to England. One was preserved and 2 are known to have been scrapped. These coaches were redundant in the UK but were the ideal length for use on the train ferries across the Great Belt. Once the fixed rail link was completed in 1997 to rail traffic the ferries were no longer needed and the Mk3s became surplus to requirements.
0:49 I've Been On The Eurostar High Speed Express Passenger Train From London In England In The United Kingdom To Disneyland Paris In France Twice From September 2019 And June 2022 Last Year And It Was Super Awesome And A Bit Like British Rail InterCity 125 High Speed Diesel Electric Express Train And It Was A Bit Like The Orient Express Steam Powered Passenger Train As Well Too. Thanks Mate. X
Nice to see your own work included in this particularly depressing video.
I used to live near Tonbridge and in the mid 90’s this would go past my front garden. Wasn’t ever loud and loved seeing it.
As always, very interesting and informative. FYI - Polmadie TMD is “south of” Glasgow in the same way that Bermondsey is “south of” London.
Looking closely at the Nightstar coaching stock, I noticed a few things.
1) The seating is 2+1.
2) All seats face towards the center of the carriage, where there is a luggage stack.
3) All seats have an overhead luggage bin above them oriented transversely! This must be the only time I have ever seen transverse luggage bins on any kind transport. It is a neat idea, though-it enables the person to just reach up to access their stuff.
Eurostar always a magnificent train and Ive been on the Eurostar before some 15 years ago when I was on a school trip to Paris
Sadly Eurostar are no longer going to Disneyland Paris
Due to the effects of the pandemic
And the fall out of the EU brexit
Loved seeing GNER livery on the Eurostar trains when visiting York.
God I miss that GNER livery.
How very British, great possibilities hampered by immediate screwups and dire infrastructure, and class 37s were at one point the only hope! I like 37s but blimey they're hardly a new invention!
We also had regional Eurostar sets running between Brüssels, Lille and Nice in the early 2000’s. They were a bit of a nightmare, and broke down regularly en route and requiring a dedicated staff member un the Train crew capable of fixing any issues that might arise en route. As for the Eurostar services to Bourg St Maurice, they are no longer operating this year, and it seems unlikely they will return.
Great video, really interesting. Thanks.
note: "110mph making [the 373s] no better than the class 87s on the West Coast Mainline". The 87s were capable of at least 140mph as were the mk3 coaches. It was the track and signalling that restricted these locomotives to 110mph operation, not the locomotives themselves, similar to the Class 91s on the ECML albeit they could get to 125mph on that route.
Looking forward to your video on the utter failure and waste of HS2 in about 5 years time...
4:47 Disneyland paris😍👌🏽 #myhappyplace
Never went on the eurostar when it was at waterloo tho
I remember the Eurostar link. It was very very slow. You were much better off on the normal train and a black cab.
Yes you were…if you weren’t interested in gaining unusual track mileage around north and west London. I was and I travelled on it. Extremely interesting route on a HST.
Nicely crafted; very informative; depressingly familiar to anyone trying the be "green" in travel options but without being beggared around with London connections and the current British diseas of a lack of long-term planning. "Hello, airline bookings? I need to get to Cologne"...
In the nineties Eurostar was supposed to go to Manchester Piccadilly. The site was cleared and space for tracks made, then as now, the north doesn’t deserve a good rail service as the London centric government of any party doesn’t see what London gains from this.
No point pushing more freight on the WCML as it’s already full with no spare room. Services through Man Pic are stuck on 2 tracks that have commuter services running literally every 10 minutes so no chance of more trains there. That is why a tunnel under the station was put forward. Stupid government froze at that thought because it would be too expensive. Thing is, there is already some tunnels under Man Picc that were supposed to be the start of an underground system for Manchester to ease road congestion. Government decided they needed a tram system, problem with is, they shut railway lines down and utilised some of that infrastructure to run the trams on.
So the roads are even busier and blocked morning and evening, because the loss of rail services into Manchester. The reality is congestion is worse than ever and rail can’t help because what wasn’t used for the tram had roads and house built on it, creating even more traffic!
It’s got so bad Network Tail now want to take over a heritage line that was scrapped when the trams were built. The East Lancs Railway ain’t happy about that idea.
For all of you complaining about passenger rail in GB, look into the sh**show that passes for passenger rail here in the US.
And Via Rail have not changed much on the Nightstar stock except climate mods, plug sockets, couplers, buffer removals and a slight livery variation.
In 1990/91 I was with DM&EE in Derby doing gauging calculations on the planned Channel Tunnel Night Stock.
Thanks for another very interesting presentation.
A good summary, thank you. Only in Britain.... Watch and weep!😒
I genuinely love your videos but one thing that irks me is your continual misuse of the phrase “domestic” airlines (at 7:34). That just means airline operations wholly within one country. The term you are looking for is “commercial” airlines or just simply “passenger” airlines.
Could domestic also be used to refer to airlines from the local country, in this case the UK?
@@that1niceguy246 “Domestic airlines” could be used if you were talking in the context of airlines that operate services wholly within one country, such as saying InterCity between London and Scotland competed with UK domestic airlines, but in this context he’s referring to competition between the UK and the Continent, so by definition that isn’t “domestic”. He uses the phrase “domestic” airlines three times in this video, and on other videos he’s done, when the correct term is “commercial passenger services”, or “civil aviation services”. I will still continue to watch his videos, however, because mostly he’s very informative and has a great voice for the videos. He does a very professional job and deserves the views he gets. It’s just this misuse of the term “domestic airlines” that bugs me.
Basically to run a high speed rail network you need high speed track infrastructure to match the trains.
Very good analysis matching my own research and reporting in railway magazines of the period. You are correct in identifying the Tories’ obsessive Border Controls issue being one of the main factors that hampered the extension of services beyond the core route. There has been so much money wasted as a result. Despite the economics issue the UK ought to be encouraging extension of such through services as part of its contribution to Net Zero. Air travel is highly polluting and Air France now offers internal flights which are actually made by TGV in comparable times.
Its terribly depressing that HS2 has been cut os mich, and that the HS1 link was cut. If it wasnt then there would have been a continuous high speed network from manchester to milan. How incredible it would have been
Not just Milan, but to Seville too.
Connected by service yes, but strictly by lines up to high speed rail standard no. There's a gap in high speed lines in southern france between Perpignan to Montpellier, where TGV and AVE trains both in domestic and international services have to take a scenic but classical nonetheless rail line, shared as well with regional trains and freight (unlike other lines both in Spain or France, which are up to HS standard and/or have exclusive HS service). And if you can get to milan using HS lines, you can take the italian network to Salerno.
@@pablocanovas2779 I'm talking about Milan not Barcelona. Once the lyon-turin tunnel is build such a London Milan would be possible only on HSL
I was referring to the comment made by PeterFriedich. But yes, once Lyon Turin is open (and by that time you'll have Milan Venice open most likely, so you can consider that as well, along other Italian and French projects) it will be a formidable network indeed
Given the current renaissance in overnight sleeper train services on the other side of La Manche (put "European Sleeper" or "OBB Nightjet" in your search engine?) this UA-cam article provides yet more painful viewing - the UK could conceivably play an integral role in this exciting concept but again (think HS2?) UK consumers are excluded through a toxic combination of UK govt. inspired incompetence/arrogance/stupidity/short-termism/bureaucracy - tragic!!!
I was a signaller at Norton Bridge when the 373 was carrying out tests on the then BR Network between Norton Bridge and Basford Hall, the tests took place on nights and they were checking that there were no compatability issues with the signalling system, was a massive dissapointment when the regional Eurostars then didnt happen
Quite sad to see the UK even to this day still suffering from the consequences of falling behind during the 2nd Industrial Revolution of 1870-1914 on matters like electrification and upgrading of the rail network and other industries. Those ideas like abandoning a number of cross-London rail schemes including an additional Snow Hill tunnel type mainline tunnel between Euston and Charing Cross stations with the North Western and Charing Cross Railway.
Whatever one's thoughts on high-speed rail in the UK, recent efforts have been pretty pathetic to be honest even before the current scrutiny of HS2. What with planners ignoring the reality of a through HS2-HS1 link between OOC and Stratford International, complemented by HS4Air as well as maybe a White City Eurostar scheme-inspired route from OOC to Ashford instead of the palaver of requiring White Elephant termini in central London at Euston and St Pancras connected by way of shuttle buses, people movers or enhanced walking routes.
Dont forget the upgrade of the North London Line by BR to support EPS with viaduct strengthening.
Happy New Year!
GNER used to hire some of the Class 373s that were used on London King’s Cross-York and Leeds. I wonder if LNER could have inherited some of them if Eurostar is to replace the Class 373 E300 with new trains. Or maybe Siemens to continue on manufacturing more Class 374 E320.
Instead of LNER ordering more new trains since the Class 800 and Class 801 Azumas came into service in 2017/18 I think.
Fascinating to imagine how different the UK would be today had the dream of a hifh speed rail link between the north of england and Europe has been conpleted.
Would the people who lived there have felt so distant from Brussels?
To imagine that, if things had gone just a little differently, one could get on a train in Edinburgh, be on that train for maybe a day or two, and then get off the train in Istanbul, is very interesting.
Of course, many things would have to be different, but many things nearly were different.
It's ultimately all about costs. Eurostar is a nice comfortable service, but the prices make it a luxury service for getting from London to Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam. Flights are often much cheaper even if the overall journey time is the same from London, so the majority of travellers will simply pick that as the cheapest option. Regional Eurostar from northern England and Scotland would have been uncompetitive versus budget airlines on both price and journey times, so it's not really surprising it was canned in retrospect.
Got confused by the Bolougna bit near the end.. Boulogne or Bologna??
I really wish the government would half the 160bn+ NHS annual budget, and start to fund projects like these! What a missed opportunity.
It really upsets me that we could have a system and train system that truly would made us a truly united kingdom
How did the train get from Kensington Olympia to the ECML? At the time the line beyond Gospel Oak wasn't electrified.
Good video, but very sad that so much opportunity and promise was squandered. And so poignant watching this after the sabotaged HS2 project has been cut back to a useless new line between Curzon Street and Old Oak Common.
😢superb video.what story of missed opportunities.great contentand depth.but rail travel development i euerope will bring improvements to the uk network fo r sure???????
The irony is that if this had been invested in properly and HS2 had been funded, we would have very likely seen regional eurostars in the next 10 years.
We'd likely need them too, if we want to reduce our use of heavily polluting air travel.
Once again let down by those in charge for short term gain.
I'm hoping to revive this idea with my proposal of the new InterCity 230 Project, a collaboration between FirstGroup and Deutsche Bahn. Once I have the money, I'll buy out FirstGroup, and make them a better company, as they are pretty much the WORST transport company in the country. We'll have Siemens Taurus locos imported from Europe (Germany, Austria, etc.), as well as the existing MK4 coaches working alongside Siemens Viaggio coaches being built for us that are identical to the ones that the new ÖBB Railjet sets have. Another idea would be to import ICE 1 and ICE 2 sets from Germany, and trim platform edges here in the UK to accommodate a wider loading gauge. Let me know what you think!
I really like the topic and the style of the video, but the information density was quite low
I wonder where the Eurostar trains were filmed running on the right, since both France and Belgium are left-hand running. I don't think the older 373s run to Amsterdam.
Not quite correct. The Class 37/6 used by EPS were not fitted with ETS. They were only wired for ETS with the power coming from the generator cars.
I've always been resentful on the fact that because we did not develop our internal rail network we where overtaken by our European counterparts, what could've been !
What a shambles. 30 years on, they should have London connected by direct rail services to all major European cities by now (Madrid, Berlin, Rome, Vienna, etc…). It could have been awesome! What a shame!
This year, in 2024, it will be their 30th birthday.
Even the museum under the Shanghai Maglev station acknowleges UK as the origin of rail travel. That resulted from the technological achievements that the Stephenson's used to produce a product fit for purpose. The subsequent centuries of development went hand in hand with the exploration of use which depends on the vagary of travelers and politicians and has never been a forward progression but a constant expensive gamble that has difficulty matching technical evolution to cost. I seldom use trains. Not because I do not like them but the lottery of ticket price never matches my timetable. It is absurdly sad that there is more pleasure viewing what is available from an armchair than making use of the networks.
Would be nice if Eurostar began stopping at Ashford International again.
The transformation of U.K. air services from legacy airlines to low cost with minimal overhead and paperless administration in the mid 90’s killed off Regional Eurostars.
Eurostar spent several hundred million on a concept with long journey times compared to Stelios Haji Ioannou spending £5m wet leasing a couple of 737-200s
Demand and capacity for travel between U.K. and continental Europe has never been bigger driven by speed and price. Two elements Eurostar appears commercially unviable beyond its single point to point connection.
Correct. Why travel 4+ hours on the train from Paris or Brussels when you can fly in 90 minutes for a fraction of the price.
Intercity high speed rail has been proven in many cases to be a visible alternative to domestic airlines. Don’t forget that these trains mainly deliver you to city centres whereas you’re looking at a 1+ hour journey to get to an airport, plus check in/arrival time plus security.
That’s before we add in sleeper options. Overall the time saving with flying is minimal on journeys up to 500km.
@@DIEMLtdTV because that only works if you're anti train and ignore that Train journeys start IN the City while for planes you need first to get out of the city, to the airport in a different city, then the boarding time and then AGAIN the time to get from the Airport to the city, what would be an hour to got from Charles de Gaulle to Gare de l'Est
Shure, you could fly from Frankfurt to Paris in an hour, with all the hazzle of flying or just step in an TGV or ICE and be even faster in the end, even faster if you don't want to start or End in Paris or Frankfurt but let's say Reims or Mannheim
@@enisra_bowman I’ve been working in the rail industry since 1999 and travel all over the UK via rail for work I think maintenance-wise, it’s adequate, but projects are still a basket case.
You make a sweeping assumption that everyone lives in a city and wants to travel long distances.
Most people mainly travel locally unlike me when in 2024 will be travelling for work between Inverness and Southampton all on the train which will be fine and even the food in first class has improved if late.
@@Whatshisname346but we live on an island. Aircraft can go point to point, high speed rail from the UK all has to funnel through Kent and the Tunnel. Whilst your point stands true, there are many exceptions, particularly from the north of the UK. Where flights towards Netherlands and Germany will be mostly over the north sea in a straight line, where the high speed rail version will turn the airlines straight line into a triangle!
Brilliant video about a pretty depressing story.
When it is said Eurostar is only competitive in London and the South East, I'd mainly say London. In many parts of the south east, it is not competitive, as there is the time and cost of catching a train into London, then often trekking across London on the Underground, before then getting on Eurostar. Parts of the midlands and northern England can get to St Pancras faster than parts of south east England. It's the more interesting and environmentally friendly way to travel, but it takes longer and is more expensive.
Oh well, at least our roads are better invested in compared to Europe... oh wait, got that wrong, they're more congested and in a greater state of disrepair. Oh well, at least Folkestone Eurotunnel terminal is nicer than Calais, oh wait, it isn't. Ah, well at least Dover port is a nicer port than Calais port, oh wait, it isn't.
Its a fascinating story - it is depressing though - its almost like the powers that be don't want people outside London to have anything to do with the rest of Europe...........
Yes, that’s exactly how I feel about it…
Very interesting and equally depressing. What a mess.
I rode three via train with Nightstar british coaches that brought.
I LIKE TRAINS
Great video though it is kinda depressing. There's another thing that I find even more depressing - the low volume of freight traffic from Europe to Britain on through freight trains, as opposed to lorries going on the ferry or on freight shuttles. Things are better regarding deep sea freight, e.g. containers from China or wherever offloaded at East Coast ports onto freight trains, but that's a different subject. With freight from the EU there are several issues to address before a huge shift to rail could happen. They are things your avarage politician would struggle to get his little head around. That's a pity because it's probably one the best ways to reduce the UK's CO2 emmisions. But what I find most depressing is there's not even a small scale shift to rail freight through the Chunnel simply by reducing track access charges.
CO2 is the GAS OF LIFE............................... It is PLANT FOOD.
(Oh, and the rise in CO2 levels are around 800 years BEHIND temperature rises)