I'm grateful for NTSB's media briefs for more than just the technical information. NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy is an exemplar of how to handle incident investigations and public communication, and viewing her statements is helping me prepare for the Certified Safety Professional exam. Her statement about human error is spot-on!
I know exactly how this happened. First of all, Control center should have NEVER given that train permission to move without a comple lineup through 96th Street. Second, it would appear that positive communication was lost. The flagger was telling the supervisor who was operating the train to stop and he never stopped. The rule is that if you lose positive communication with the flagger, you must stop the train.
The hope the two crew riding the rear as they were being shoved into the side of another train got clear and are unhurt. I was with my dad, a locomotive engineer many years ago, as he backed a B&O train into DC Union Station. I talked to a coworker who used to flag that move, he said it was a butt-clenching experience.
Something about this reminds me of the Gare de Lyon runaway but potentially without the runaway bit. If it was a loss of brake function, then it has spooky similarities.
Unfortunately the MTA does not respect its employees and does not take into consideration its employees opinion. The radios are choppy and do not always work in every tunnel. There is a culture of rushing and trying to get the most service on paper disregarding of safety is across the board in Buses and Trains. I hope they take a deep dive and use as much resources as possible to unearth how employees are blamed for every occurrence and are disciplined at astronomical levels. It’s always the employees fault in this system. Suspension are way up and protections way lower. The union acts as buffer to make sure complaints go away and retaliation and management/union working together is across the board pervasive.
1930? isn't PTC much newer than that (2020 or so), not to say other revisions to rail signaling similar to TPWS/AWS that's been around for at least two decades? that is a good question as according to some websites, PTC (Positive Train Control) was fully implemented on all rail in the US by 2020. how did two trains end up on the same piece of track if PTC was truly implemented and working, hmmm.
@Zarcondeegrissom The MTA is infamous for having to keep warehouses full of antique electromechanical components needed to maintain equipment that is so outdated that the manufacturers are long out of business. This is what decades of underinvestment brings. Sooner or later the guvmint is going to have to throw money at the problem, and the longer they wait the more money they're going to have to throw at it.
@@murdelabop I guess context matters when talking about 'old' parts. just because a part is an "old new stock" item made by some company that isn't around anymore doesn't imply that it's something that 'must' be completely replaced, I have graphics cards from a company that doesn't exist anymore (EVGA) yet the computers still work fine. I also have coffee mugs from companies that haven't existed in decades, don't imply I must invent a new device to dispense coffee from to replace the coffee mug, lol. there is also the J79 you just can't get new vanes and blades for the engine because the company that made them has been gone for a few decades, even tho the engine is used in all kinds of things from aircraft to power generators, that is a ticking engine-hours problem, whats in warehouses is all that will ever be for that engine, even AgentJayZ can't get "a spare one" for his desk. also, trains are not like modern cellphone e-waste, you can upgrade parts of them without replacing the entire thing. railroad tie plates are not something that goes out of code, that said I wouldn't be keeping engine oil for a few decades, lol.
@DANNYN224 If full PTC had been installed and functional then this wouldn't have happened. A large part of the "human error" is the failure of the MTA to install, operate, and maintain full PTC across the entire network.
She's very good! Technically knowledgeable, supportive of the industry, but she called out several deficiencies in the system. I hope the NTSBs recommendations are taken by all concerned.
about 22 minutes in, that answer about no requirement for cameras and data recorders for trains is surprising. In the northeast somebody somewhere has required exactly that on school buses for around a decade or longer, how is it not a requirement on "all public transport passenger vehicles" if school buses school vans and passenger buses are required to have them? That is something to be asking politicians and execs a lot of uncomfortable questions about.
NYT system, old cars, old system, go to Munich, London, Paris, Madrid,Tokyo subway systems and take notes! Who the hell lets the general public get a hold of emergency brakes! ATC should be in place to stop a train, like in Europe.
Because those are not independent cars. It's more like it's one long car with 4 points where it can bend and where it can be disassembled without cutting it apart.
She’s good, has the cards but rarely references them. Good luck, it’s difficult to find a more screwed up operation than the MTA. At least someone repeatedly pulling the emergency cord and having to reset the brakes makes some sense… gets the union people off the hook as well.
The NTSB made the recommendations years ago for recorders and cameras. But since they have no enforcement powers, the railroads can just say "Nope, cost too much" and then nothing happens!
The various unions have a lot of input as to whether cameras and event recorders are installed in the trains, both looking at the conductor and outward looking outside of the train. NTSB made the same recommendation for aircraft to have cockpit cameras like over 10 years ago, huge pushback from the pilots union…it has never been implemented in the US or even foreign airlines.
Why would they/she Lie about anything for such a thing, It did happen its not some fake made up event. Just because you lack the intelligence to understand what she is saying does not mean its a lie or not the Facts of what happened, Or you are one of those who would mess with E-brakes in a Train for laughs.
Me thinks she is trying very hard to avoid sayin these doors attach with mating slots and tabs like the lid on our pressure cookers. The lid is very difficult to remove while pressure is pushing. Virtually impossible if a screw or bolt prevents the lid (door from moving to position where tabs and slots are not lined up. I belieVe somehow the bolts were left on the bench before the decorative trim was installed over the mistake. Good news for Boing no one physically harmed. Bad news, if this is in fact what happened,Boeing heads will Roll ! I think Lots of politicking going on here
This is the third time she's done this. Her job is to show up and give an initial brief indicating that the NTSB is concerned but then you never hear from her. She was at the bus in Ohio that blew up and gave a statement and then we never heard from her again. She went to the train derailment in Chicago and then we never heard from her again. She'll hold this press conference and then we'll never hear anything about what happened.
This is an ignorant and false claim. Only yesterday she presented the NTSBs findings into the 2021 WAMATA Train Derailment, and they pull no punches. NTSB investigations are thorough and take time.
NTSB investigations take years to complete. Just because you didn't hear anything in a long time doesn't mean nothing was happening. Just 1 day before this video was released the NTSB released a video on the final report of a WAMATA derailment 3 years ago.
@@GH-oi2jf I'm not waiting on anything. I'm jumping the gate like the rest until I get $147.50 worth from being ripped off having this and other breakdow moments costing me. Until you have been forced from trains at a non accessible location that requires you to exit the facility by stairs wgen you have a cart, walk 1-3 blocks and Pay again to transfer onto a train that does not go to your stop which forces you to a location that has a transfer that you can take adding another 45 minutes to your commute, and then pay for a cab because your bus that takes you to final location is gone as you arrive, then you can talk. But now you should go sit in a corner, have a Coke and a Smile and stfu.
@@ickipoo Let her own bio speak: www.ntsb.gov/about/board/Pages/Jennifer-Homendy.aspx "Earlier in her career, Chair Homendy held a position with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, where she represented the interests of working families before Congress and the Executive Branch," a.k.a. a union plant. "Chair Homendy completed Private Pilot Ground School and is currently completing the requirements to obtain a private pilot license, and holds an M2 motorcycle endorsement." Let's break that down.. First, she has NO intention of getting a pilot's license. Why? She put her application in for a student license on 2/13/2020, BUT never completed a single medical exam. Those are required every 2 years for someone her age if she wants to actually get in an airplane and fly it. It's been 3+ years and I'm sure she could get the NTSB to pay for her training, so there's no excuse here. Second, an M2 "motorcycle endorsement" isn't that at all. M1 is motorcycle. M2 is " any motorized bicycle, moped, or motorized scooter." So claiming to want to be a pilot and being a moped driver apparently makes her qualified(!) If you want to see what a qualified person looks like, take a look at Billy Nolen who was in charge of the FAA in 2022-2023. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Nolen
@@grayrabbit2211 are you one of those kooky weirdoes who sees the word union and starts hissing and foaming at the mouth about how evil the organisations literally designed to prevent worker's rights being taken away are?
The person who pulled the emergency brake should go to jail for reckless endangerment.
She's having to do too many of these over the past month.
The NTSB is my favorite federal agency. Good work everyone!
Even though she's grossly unqualified for the position?
I'm grateful for NTSB's media briefs for more than just the technical information. NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy is an exemplar of how to handle incident investigations and public communication, and viewing her statements is helping me prepare for the Certified Safety Professional exam. Her statement about human error is spot-on!
I know exactly how this happened. First of all, Control center should have NEVER given that train permission to move without a comple lineup through 96th Street.
Second, it would appear that positive communication was lost. The flagger was telling the supervisor who was operating the train to stop and he never stopped.
The rule is that if you lose positive communication with the flagger, you must stop the train.
The hope the two crew riding the rear as they were being shoved into the side of another train got clear and are unhurt.
I was with my dad, a locomotive engineer many years ago, as he backed a B&O train into DC Union Station. I talked to a coworker who used to flag that move, he said it was a butt-clenching experience.
Something about this reminds me of the Gare de Lyon runaway but potentially without the runaway bit. If it was a loss of brake function, then it has spooky similarities.
Unfortunately the MTA does not respect its employees and does not take into consideration its employees opinion. The radios are choppy and do not always work in every tunnel. There is a culture of rushing and trying to get the most service on paper disregarding of safety is across the board in Buses and Trains. I hope they take a deep dive and use as much resources as possible to unearth how employees are blamed for every occurrence and are disciplined at astronomical levels. It’s always the employees fault in this system. Suspension are way up and protections way lower. The union acts as buffer to make sure complaints go away and retaliation and management/union working together is across the board pervasive.
Do you think maybe a signal and control system out of the 1930s might have something to do with it?
1930? isn't PTC much newer than that (2020 or so), not to say other revisions to rail signaling similar to TPWS/AWS that's been around for at least two decades? that is a good question as according to some websites, PTC (Positive Train Control) was fully implemented on all rail in the US by 2020. how did two trains end up on the same piece of track if PTC was truly implemented and working, hmmm.
@Zarcondeegrissom The MTA is infamous for having to keep warehouses full of antique electromechanical components needed to maintain equipment that is so outdated that the manufacturers are long out of business. This is what decades of underinvestment brings. Sooner or later the guvmint is going to have to throw money at the problem, and the longer they wait the more money they're going to have to throw at it.
@@murdelabop I guess context matters when talking about 'old' parts. just because a part is an "old new stock" item made by some company that isn't around anymore doesn't imply that it's something that 'must' be completely replaced, I have graphics cards from a company that doesn't exist anymore (EVGA) yet the computers still work fine. I also have coffee mugs from companies that haven't existed in decades, don't imply I must invent a new device to dispense coffee from to replace the coffee mug, lol. there is also the J79 you just can't get new vanes and blades for the engine because the company that made them has been gone for a few decades, even tho the engine is used in all kinds of things from aircraft to power generators, that is a ticking engine-hours problem, whats in warehouses is all that will ever be for that engine, even AgentJayZ can't get "a spare one" for his desk. also, trains are not like modern cellphone e-waste, you can upgrade parts of them without replacing the entire thing. railroad tie plates are not something that goes out of code, that said I wouldn't be keeping engine oil for a few decades, lol.
Nope signals and switches are designed to work according to ntsb so it was human error all the equipment is designed to work
@DANNYN224 If full PTC had been installed and functional then this wouldn't have happened. A large part of the "human error" is the failure of the MTA to install, operate, and maintain full PTC across the entire network.
She's very good! Technically knowledgeable, supportive of the industry, but she called out several deficiencies in the system.
I hope the NTSBs recommendations are taken by all concerned.
The day before a loaded passenger train ran into track maintenance equipment. 2 crashes in 2 days.
She is a very Good spokesperson for NTSB explaining everything well and understandable!
I imagine some imagery would help clarify
Great working !
Repeated under funding of the MTA, or really any public transportation system, will just lead to a snowball of issues later down the line.
Geez this lady is working overtime with Alaska airplane and this train.
about 22 minutes in, that answer about no requirement for cameras and data recorders for trains is surprising. In the northeast somebody somewhere has required exactly that on school buses for around a decade or longer, how is it not a requirement on "all public transport passenger vehicles" if school buses school vans and passenger buses are required to have them? That is something to be asking politicians and execs a lot of uncomfortable questions about.
You'd only get cameras on the locomotives, and have to overcome engine vibration
There are different authorities overseeing different systems. School buses would be regulated by a state or local authority.
@@hobog MTA trains are electric multiple units. They don't have locomotives. Technology exists to put cameras in every car.
@@murdelabopTechnically, a powered unit of an EMU is still a locomotive. For example, NJ Transit considers their Arrow III's to be locomotives.
@Trainfan1055Janathan There is that I suppose.
good work
NYT system, old cars, old system, go to Munich, London, Paris, Madrid,Tokyo subway systems and take notes! Who the hell lets the general public get a hold of emergency brakes! ATC should be in place to stop a train, like in Europe.
She's been pretty busy lately
i would like to know why they could not just cut out the one car's brakes and leave the other cars with power?
Because those are not independent cars. It's more like it's one long car with 4 points where it can bend and where it can be disassembled without cutting it apart.
She’s good, has the cards but rarely references them. Good luck, it’s difficult to find a more screwed up operation than the MTA. At least someone repeatedly pulling the emergency cord and having to reset the brakes makes some sense… gets the union people off the hook as well.
The MTA is decent; unfortunately, chronic underfunding has left backlogs of maintenance and capacity upgrades sorely lacking.
@unconventionalideas5683 Yeah. The underfunding of the MTA is criminal. Figuratively if not literally.
She constantly references the cards. And says ah a lot.
There's no way you really believe the MTA is the most screwed operation. Just watch the other videos on this channel.
Why is that guy shaking his head?
Mr. High and Tight has the look of a bodyguard.
A transit agency operating trains without cams or event recorders in 2024? Inexplicable!
😎👍🤘
The NTSB made the recommendations years ago for recorders and cameras. But since they have no enforcement powers, the railroads can just say "Nope, cost too much" and then nothing happens!
The various unions have a lot of input as to whether cameras and event recorders are installed in the trains, both looking at the conductor and outward looking outside of the train. NTSB made the same recommendation for aircraft to have cockpit cameras like over 10 years ago, huge pushback from the pilots union…it has never been implemented in the US or even foreign airlines.
It's ok, she played with electric trains at age 8.
you'd think she would have made herself a brunette before this media moment .... so someone just might have believed something of what she had to say
Why would they/she Lie about anything for such a thing, It did happen its not some fake made up event.
Just because you lack the intelligence to understand what she is saying does not mean its a lie or not the Facts of what happened, Or you are one of those who would mess with E-brakes in a Train for laughs.
Me thinks she is trying very hard to avoid sayin these doors attach with mating slots and tabs like the lid on our pressure cookers. The lid is very difficult to remove while pressure is pushing. Virtually impossible if a screw or bolt prevents the lid (door from moving to position where tabs and slots are not lined up. I belieVe somehow the bolts were left on the bench before the decorative trim was installed over the mistake.
Good news for Boing no one physically harmed. Bad news, if this is in fact what happened,Boeing heads will Roll ! I think
Lots of politicking going on here
🚋
She looks like an aging Deborah Harry but for the nose.
This is the third time she's done this. Her job is to show up and give an initial brief indicating that the NTSB is concerned but then you never hear from her. She was at the bus in Ohio that blew up and gave a statement and then we never heard from her again. She went to the train derailment in Chicago and then we never heard from her again. She'll hold this press conference and then we'll never hear anything about what happened.
You know, there's a job called "Press officer", and one of their duties is giving information to the media, shocking, right?
Ineffectual overpaid waste of money.
This is an ignorant and false claim. Only yesterday she presented the NTSBs findings into the 2021 WAMATA Train Derailment, and they pull no punches. NTSB investigations are thorough and take time.
NTSB investigations take years to complete. Just because you didn't hear anything in a long time doesn't mean nothing was happening. Just 1 day before this video was released the NTSB released a video on the final report of a WAMATA derailment 3 years ago.
those investigations are still ongoing. homendy is the ntsb chair
When am I gonna get compensation for being delayed and having to pay twice to relocate to another train?
You are not the neediest person. Send in a claim and wait.
@@GH-oi2jf I'm not waiting on anything. I'm jumping the gate like the rest until I get $147.50 worth from being ripped off having this and other breakdow moments costing me. Until you have been forced from trains at a non accessible location that requires you to exit the facility by stairs wgen you have a cart, walk 1-3 blocks and Pay again to transfer onto a train that does not go to your stop which forces you to a location that has a transfer that you can take adding another 45 minutes to your commute, and then pay for a cab because your bus that takes you to final location is gone as you arrive, then you can talk. But now you should go sit in a corner, have a Coke and a Smile and stfu.
Better yet, if you don't like the service don't use the service.@@sexoffendertrump
An “unruly passenger?” You mean a criminal who probably would’ve been at Rikers if not for bail “reform.” NYC used to be a safe city.
You know that how?
Just lost confidence in the Ntsb.
Was Biden driving?
No, it was your glass eyed Mama.
She is not honest or qualified.
You want to back that claim up with some facts, or is it just a gut feeling?
ok foamer
@@ickipoo Let her own bio speak: www.ntsb.gov/about/board/Pages/Jennifer-Homendy.aspx
"Earlier in her career, Chair Homendy held a position with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, where she represented the interests of working families before Congress and the Executive Branch,"
a.k.a. a union plant.
"Chair Homendy completed Private Pilot Ground School and is currently completing the requirements to obtain a private pilot license, and holds an M2 motorcycle endorsement."
Let's break that down..
First, she has NO intention of getting a pilot's license. Why? She put her application in for a student license on 2/13/2020, BUT never completed a single medical exam. Those are required every 2 years for someone her age if she wants to actually get in an airplane and fly it. It's been 3+ years and I'm sure she could get the NTSB to pay for her training, so there's no excuse here.
Second, an M2 "motorcycle endorsement" isn't that at all. M1 is motorcycle. M2 is " any motorized bicycle, moped, or motorized scooter."
So claiming to want to be a pilot and being a moped driver apparently makes her qualified(!)
If you want to see what a qualified person looks like, take a look at Billy Nolen who was in charge of the FAA in 2022-2023. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Nolen
wonder if this is just mysoginy or if there's an actual reason for saying this
@@grayrabbit2211 are you one of those kooky weirdoes who sees the word union and starts hissing and foaming at the mouth about how evil the organisations literally designed to prevent worker's rights being taken away are?