RPG Maker Good vs Bad Cutscenes
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- In this video, I go over what it takes to make a good cutscene and I compare the differences between it and a bad version of its self. I forgot to mention a couple of things, like using battle animations as demonstrated when the fairy came out of the water, and using the emoticons above the characters head for example, but overall you should get the point.
Eventhough I used MV for this, the same stuff said applies to all versions of RPG Maker.
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For the people complaining that the second cutscene is too drawn out and exaggerated for such a scene, answer these questions.
What if the same fairy re-appears multiple times later in the game and if you appease her enough, she becomes a playable character - would that justify the latter style of cutscene?
Is the latter type of cutscene good for important party interactions and story moments only, or is it never good?
Also, why is it important to you to be able to speed past the RPG cutscenes?
Pinned.
I think, no.
Interesting question. One one hand you need a way to inform your players. And obviously you as a dev want to tell a story, and give your players the rich lore of your game.
On the other hand... I want to play the game and not watch a movie. So in a way the effects of the second one are clearly better, no doubt. But the first cut-scene was more on point with it's text.
So while the improved cutscene shows - very good - what one can do with effort to make a scene feel nicer... Pacing mustn't be overlooked.
For example in the first version - every line of text advances the story. There's not much re-itterating the same thing. This may feel artificial - as people don't talk that way, but I have the feeling in the second example we have been on the upper end of how drawn out the dialogue for this situation was.
I also acknowledge that pacing wasn't the focus of this tutorial, so this isn't meant as a critique on this here video, but more as a further tip to improve this scene from a non-technical story-telling standpoint:
You should establish what to do with the fairy beforehand. In multiple dialogues, books, etc. that inform the player about the sword, about the fairy, even about the idea that they will need some kind of present.
(In this regard, some kind of Quest-Log seems to be very useful)
With that informations already out, you can cut right to the calling of the fairy, with maybe one line like 'We are here, let's hope the villagers stories were right...'
Then all the effects and show to introduce the fairy.
Make the minigame finding the present optional (and give the players the chance to encounter that object beforehand) and keep it as a last resort, if they sold the last berry.
@@robertnett9793 I can't argue with that! Nor would I, just like Matthew's post this is an extremely solid point =D
Maybe this is just me and my weird perception of language but your comment feels lightly condescending. But here's my response.
1. If the fairy were to appear multiple times, I would still keep the cutscenes a little more concise so that way you don't bore the player, though I agree it's good to have more emphasis on dialogue if its an important character.
2. I think the style presented in the video is much better for bigger moments like Pro/Epilogues, and Boss Intros. But for an interaction like the example's, it feels overkill, especially when the "bad example" is around a minute, and the "good example" is
3. There's a chunk of people who don't like long cutscenes, and usually prefer getting into the action more. And most players don't want their time wasted with something mundane and too drawn out, especially with gags in them like the "Game Over" fakeout as seen in the example. I myself don't enjoy longer cutscenes, though I do understand where exposition and or story development is important.
If I were to make a long cutscene, I'd save it for something bigger, like what I said in #2. And I'd add an option to speed through text and a toggle to make it appear instantly for players who want to spend less time with dialogues.
The second definitely looked more "professional", but the first succeeded in not dragging on for way too long with unnecessary chit-chat, along with the text boxes being so narrow that they often can't hold one line.
yeah I went a little overboard lol
BOTH of them drug on for a long time with chit chat. The second was just waaaay slower and had more transitions.
@@houseliska9984 26 second is too long for you? what the hell? its a fucking rpg who wants a game that when you come to the area for a quest you get like
Quest Giver: i need you to bring me a herb
MC: Okay
(Quest Recieved Collect a Herb)
(Quest Objective Completed)
Quest Giver: did you bring the herb?
MC: yes, here it is
Quest Giver: good, heres your reward
(Quest Completed)
Eight lines, and only 5 of them are words.. seriously that is how you want your rpg? it will be the shortest rpg ever..
@@calebscoville2585 quality over quantity have no existence if the game scenes can be skipped.. i prefer and many prefer to have a story you can either skip, or watch, if you just want it to be short then you can never make a game that everyone will enjoy, take for example Yanfly Message Core, you can hold Enter to skip through words and even scenes, its like fastforwarding time, that way you can make a game for everyone, because make no mistake, not everyone wants "Quality Over Quantity" in all games you can skip, so Yanfly Message Core, makes you able to skip scenes that would take minutes in seconds, or you can just do what people who tried the game for the first time do AND WATCH THE WHOLE DAMN THING, if you have no idea what i mean try Message Core first, and believe me, a long story you can skip, is a million times better than a short story you can watch..
@@DraiksDracula You said
"Eight lines, and only 5 of them are words.. seriously that is how you want your rpg? it will be the shortest rpg ever.."
So if I'm gathering this right, what you prefer is a game with long story cutscenes, but make them skippable if the player wants to. And then outside of the cutscenes you prefer the gameplay to be really short. Is this correct?
I also want to clarify my point, that I'm not saying I prefer the story should be short, just the cutscenes to be shorter. The story can be long, but I prefer it to come about in simpler terms. Here a little, there a little, sprinkled throughout the gameplay, showing just enough to tell the entire story. Cecil begins as a dark knight, betrays his kingdom and then discovers that there are deeper works of evil behind his king's apparent corruption. He has to fulfill various quests and meet new companions along the way as he discovers the true conflict behind everything that takes them deep beneath the earth and even to the moon and back. He even goes through a character arc of casting off his darkness and becoming a paladin. A long, epic tale, but with simple cutscenes and dialogue. This is just the style that resonates most with me.
As a rule, if you have to preface your cut scene with "Sorry, the cut scene goes way too long, but trust me--"... you probably should rectify whatever is causing you to feel the need to say that before releasing your cut scene. In saying that, you illustrate that you already know it drags on, before you've even shown it to anybody. As a player, I'd actually prefer the first one, because it respects the player's time.
Sometimes less is more. I use something like a middle way. I try not to be too chaty but still with some attention to detail. i have one friend that tests it that is a lore whore and i have another friend that just wanna fight and do things. so every now and then i send them a demo and let em play, so the lore focused will told me, there needs to be more storytelling and the kill everything friend told me, that there is to much text, so ive adopted to optional readable books that tell background stories and information about the land, without smashing unrealated mainstory things into the face of the people who just wanna play. i rly need to stop watching the "xy misstake in rpg maker" videos because i put a lot of effort into my(sadly rpg maker asset) game and those videos just fire my insecurity that it will never be good enough for anyone to enjoy it.
@Dovahgatr Yeah boi. Context matters for sure. The point still stands that the creator knew the cutscene was overly long (never a good thing in any context) and watching the video, it's plain that, yes, indeed, it does drag on needlessly. You're not wrong though. Long cutscenes aren't inherently bad. (See: Metal Gear; Final Fantasy.)
There's a mistake I see a ton of RPG Maker users make as well as some that are even present in tutorials and thus teaching other users the same mistake.
A good cutscene is not necessarily a long one unless something very significant to the story happens. It is important to note that once you take away too much time of the player to actually play the game, you make them lose interest, especially with 2D games.
Another mistake I often see is that there's so much unnecessary dialogue in addition to too much information at once or just overall a cheesy dialogue. (For example "Besides, you're adorable." without there being a comedic effect to make it not seem out of place or forced, which I felt being the case with the example shown.)
Often shorter sentences are the best in normal dialogue and then you should let the game itself handle further explanation or giving the player more info through moments during gameplay (great if done before a lengthy cutscene or directly afterwards) or through random facts given via NPCs, side quests, etc.. If you have to make the cutscenes give the player all kinds of information so that they understand the world better, you're not doing the world you're creating a favor. The world won't feel alive. Imagine if you went to a info center in a shopping mall and the informant there decides to tell you why she or he's standing there or why there's a shop for this and that there, etc..
Play games that are well received like Chrono Trigger, Xenoblade Chronicles, etc. etc... The characters never say more than they need to and very often the main characters have a background that gives them a reason to need to learn more about the world, just like the player themselves. The NPCs and the little things you do in these games help make you understand the world. The world is an important part of the story and the whole game, but do not make it the center either.
(continuation in my own reply...)
(.. cont.)
Another thing I see used incredibly often are screen effects like a tint or something. Don't do that. If the place you're in doesn't have an afternoon glow, don't add it to the cutscene. It looks awkward if the colors turn back to vibrant day-time colors afterwards. Consistency is key. Also don't use flashy effects very often either. I know it's nice to play with effects, but there's a reason that when you go to arts school they tell you "Less is more". I highly recommend the movie "The white Ribbon"... It's a superb movie that uses the bare minimum and still totally immerses the user , same thing that Kojima also did in the Metal Gear series during important cutscenes.
Also for the love of all that's nice in the world do not force comedy or romance. I mentioned this before but forced comedy (Especially romance, please please *please* don't force it) can make a player hate your game instantly and feel awkward going through dialogue, especially if it's incredibly out of place. Know that not everyone shares the same sense of humor and we often see our own jokes very differently compared to others.
You are making a game, yes, but if you intend to add a lot of cutscenes, make sure you also look into film making and theater and know what makes a good movie/play because very often the same applies to cutscenes in games BUT please do not forget that you are in fact making a game and you shouldn't draw your cutscenes out for more than 5 minutes.
I highly recommend the games Finding Paradise, To the Moon and the other games made by the same creator, which are all RPG Maker games. Even though they are story-focused games and have more cutscenes, you don't feel like saying "Man, when I can I control the characters already!?". Also it has good examples of how to make a good comedic atmosphere while still being serious when it needs to be imo.
If you're serious about making a game, you have to learn to look critically at other media and apply the same critique to your own work, even if it's unpleasant since we're all biased towards the things we have created ourselves.
I pinned this, thanks for your feedback!
He lied.
Xenoblade has a lot of unnecessary dialogue. Have you ever played it? Lol
Nowdays I just hate long scenes that eventually boil down to go and fetch this. TW3 is full of these type of epic cinema.
Second one was a tiny bit too long, but definitely better than the first one.
With a few adjustments, an overly-extended cutscene can be shortened without sacrificing the feel of it. I'll definitely take all these tips in, though, because they're good for writing.
Good video.
Longer cut-scenes with more drawn out animations are not necessarily better. These are games we're making, not movies, so keeping the player involved is important.
I think I'd have the player themselves walk up to the pool and have the fairy splash out of it with lots of sound effects, splash effects and maybe a cackle from the fairy - then I'd have her say the vital information and at the end of it ask the player a gated question like "Isn't that great?" with two positive answers "Yes!" and "It sure is!" before having the fairy then explain where they need to go next.
I agree, too long a cutscene for a simple action (like this one but longer) without an option to skip it would be bothersome, any longer than this and I'd probably have a "Skip" option if I was actually making a game with this style of cutscenes
Sorry to reply a month later, but also the cutscene's length might depend on what you're explaining. A tutorial for unique mechanics would have the information delivered in the most efficient way possible to get on with the game, but a scene that shows a character's development might be longer.
The problem with the skip is that most players will start skipping since its too long and then ruin their own experience with the game. While their experience would have been way better if the cutscenes were just shorter and done in a better way.
I agree that the "good example" in this video is very long for something of low importance. The content and emotions could be delivered way faster.
i dont know about you but i hate those dumb multiple choice answers where it's basically the same thing. When they're just put in, because? Your situation isn't even a "you can answer no but then you'll have to answer yes" it's just 2 different flavors of yes, making a person ask - what's the point? why not make 3, or 4 flavors of yes then? Etc. Just having the hero respond with something like "ok i got it!" would imo be alot better and more immersive. the illusion of choice especially is such an obvious/blunt way of showing it really isn't a choice, is never good design. Better to not have that "choice" at all.
@@whiskizyo2067 I had a cool idea, (actually got it to work as well.)
But, the lord of hell kind of revisits his home town. And he has a minion with him. Shes very, deadpoolish, and breaks the fourth wall with the player. Asking. "Hey, you want him to explain more about what this place meant to him??!!"
If you answered yes, Kakashi, the lord of hell would be annoyed but explain quickly anyway. And if you answered no, well then...ye...he'd be relieved you didnt wanna waste time on it. And would move the scene on much faster lol
I get what you mean by the comparison, but the "good" cutscene is inherently bad as well. I won't touch the anime love tropes or the incorrect grammar and spelling, but insofar as the cutscene itself... it's far too long, and tries to add too much exposition to an otherwise dull moment. Depending on the length of the game, you want to be careful where you have the "deep dive" moments and not have too many of them. People get bored easily.
I do agree that production value should always be important. Emotes and using animations where they won't clash are key.
Thank you, sir. Finally someone that understands that long cutscenes doesn't have to be good. And short one (like the first one) can be useful for some more basic or not super important story telling. People here are mentioning "show, don't tell".. that would work in 3D game, not so much for 2D game with limited customization.
I find text boxes useful in most cases. Cutscenes withou any text boxes when there are clearly 2 or more characters interacting with each other feels just weird.
The funny thing is, I liked the 'bad' cutscene more. :)
Its fine, I kinda regret titling it this way but its also in the video itself so I'm not updating the title~ was a 'bad' choice of words I guess. xD
What I was aiming for was a 'effort vs no effort' kind of thing, this included grammar and lazy typing.
You can make a good cutscene with just portraits, you can make portraits have emotion too.
Both of these skills--knowing how to use all the director / scene stuff the program has and WHEN to use it, and knowing how to make multi-expression character sprites, are valuable traits. But either one will collapse if the writing is crap and lacks direction and focus.
It's all about taste I think. If you want Kojima long cutscenes, you'll go for the 2nd one. But if you're the kind of player who's ok with cutscenes but you don't want them to be too long, you will probably appreaciate the 1st one over the 2nd.
yep fair
Good cutscenes have spelling mistakes
Lol damnit, where was it?
*you're @ 2:30 :D
@Niriel It's also spelled "Aw", not ""Awe", "How come" is two words, not "Howcome?". Yeah, this entire thing was FILLED with grammatical errors all over the place.
one more
Geeze instead of Geez
Also it’s “beeline” not “b-line”
First "bad" cutscene is suitable for certain games that focus more on the objective of the story.
Second "good" cutscene is good for adding more personalities into the characters in order to make them memorable and natural.
Depending on the game, I have no preference.
I actually watched this years back when working on a project, I can say your video helped me a lot. :)
I’m rewatching this video after 3 years just because it’s literally just so........ good......
Especially all the hate it got lmao
Well, the good one was okay, but it simply comes down to a personal taste. I didn't care much about the black bars, or the two row text box, but I understood why they were there. My own cutscenes are probably somewhere between these two. There will always be those who love your work and those who hate it, no matter what you do. Personally, I like longer cutscenes and storytelling, rather than spamming enter and frustrate when I can't get back in the action. But that's just me.
"There will always be those who love your work and those who hate it, no matter what you do" This is so true, you hear all your life "You can't please everyone" and no matter how bad you want to, that's so true. "it simply comes down to a personal taste." Agreed, I felt kinda lame for using "Good" and "Bad" once I had realized how suggestive they are, but I'll keep the title the way it is simply because in the video I state "Good vs bad" as well, I'm actually expecting to get some hate comments soon about it since this video is getting pretty "popular", but hey, mistakes were made, can only learn from them right? :)
TheUnproPro Yeah. This was a great video and it gave me a couple of ideas as well.
Thanks! :)
Yeah this is basically where I'm falling...I had the same problem with my D&D Homebrews. I would have 1 or 2 players that really soaked up the lore and worldbuilding, but the other 3 or 4 just wanted to either battle or get to doing goofy improv rather than dramatically uncovering a forgotten treasure or relic of the past. Knowing your audience, or preferably giving options for both camps, can get you a lot of traction.
For me the small chibi sprites might have expressions, but that requires more focus to glance and see who's talking....not to mention they are on the right side of the text which means eyes bouncing back and forth just to get a grasp of who's speaking and what their mood when speaking is. May seem small, but during the course of a whole game, you gotta keep in mind that seconds make hours if you have enough of them. Besides that, the black bars didn't bother me at all and gives a great visual cue that something dramatic is happening, as the focus on the screen narrows which says "This is important!!!". I find that and the music changing + sound effects to be a primo touch that I liked. Will for sure be checking out more of your stuff when I finally pull the trigger on RPG Maker MV.
OK first 'bad' cutscene I'd expect out of... oh... say FF4.The second one, however, looks like something out of Tales of Phantasia where you don't just have your characters being dynamic, but also the little chibis, the popup balloons, and other dynamic bits to give personality.
First one is 'bad' in that 'ok we've seen this before' and for small bits like 'welcome to random shmucko town' fine, works, but not for a 'cinematic' moment. However, the second one takes a whole lot more planning and thought which newbies (like myself) might give up on halfway because 'crap which variable hosed? Fine I'll just throw the simple one in till I get around to fixing this' and... never fixing the proper cutscene.
I see time and again advice i quite frankly believe. Before you do anything on an actual project start planning. For tutorials or 'oh hey I want to try a thing to see if I can make it work' fine, improv. However for a game that goes past the tutorial phase where you want to make something to show off? You can't hold it all in your head no matter how good you are there's just tooo much you have to have ordered and sorted.
"which newbies (like myself) might give up on halfway because 'crap which variable hosed? Fine I'll just throw the simple one in till I get around to fixing this'"
No worries, I'll be uploading a tutorial on how this was done. You'll be happy to know that no variables were used and only 2 switches were used to make the second cutscene.
It does take time however, this took 5 hours (including the editing for the video tho, but a majority of it was all in that one event, trying to make it look as good as I knew how)
And a few self-switches for the fairy ? :P
I liked this scene !
I would gladly copy it and give you credit ! :P :D
Sure, feel free, also I think I only used 1 self switch. I'm working on a tutorial rn on how to make a cutscene interesting like seen in this vid
Looking forward to it ! :)
dude, this is why you're an rpg maker legend. i learned a lot from this, thank you.
Nice tip, but take note that the second one is a bit annoying for the beginning part as it's slow, and for a cut scene that isn't that important make it weird looking. Other than that it's not a bad tip video on how to make a good cutscenes (but please take not that only the player can judge if the cutscenes is good or not, we can't read their minds you know?).
You know it's bad when you find yourself skipping the cutscenes that the entire video is about...
Aside from what Mystic Song already said. There is another issue with this example. And that is the positioning of your character emotions. Personally, I think stuff like that should be in the character sets themselves, however if you are going for that faceset format, then it's more important that the image is actually starts from the left like the original faceset position. Unless you're in specific parts of the world that reads from Right to Left, this is not a good position.
Think of it this way.
As I'm reading the dialogue, I'm having my own interpretation, and suddenly an image to accompany that dialogue, then it becomes, oh. So that's what they're feeling.
You want to show the player the emotion of the character with that image. But instead it becomes an afterthought.
Yeah. If facesets normally are in the right side of window then its probably a good idea that character emotions show there too.
Don't listen to all these people criticizing the length of the second cutscene. Good dialogue is crucial to developing attachment to characters. RPGs are KNOWN for having convoluted, overblown plots with lots of dialogue. I play RPGs because I LIKE CUTSCENES. So. Yeah.
"And now let's watch the same cut-scene, but made with more effort..." => Ad-break to some modern 3d-Action-RPG.
Oh! Wow. MV surely came along nicely over the years :D
LOLOL
As a person with vision issues, I do like the larger box / print in the first.
The second has much better directing, emotion, pacing and cinematography, however.
Let's be objective, the second one is way better. Yes, it's a long cutscene for a moment in the game which may be not important, but this was just done as an example.
Hm, I'm quite late to the party, but...
Honestly, I think I'd prefer to see the "bad" cutscene in game than the "good" one. While I do agree that the second one is way more impressive from visual and technical standpoints, ultimately, it got plenty of issues that are way more severe than the ones in first one.
1. Unnecessary exposition to a lot of things, that player probably won't care about.
2. Cutscene should always be prepared depending of importance of the scene to the story. Getting directions rarely is huge breaking point.
3. Getting into cutscene mode just to talk with her seems out of place.
4. Adding chores to the cutscene. Like "Go and pick up something that's literally next to you" - this should be done by the character during the cutscene itself.
All in all, the whole thing can be summed up by two words: "Too long". The first, bad cutscene has higher chance of keeping your player interested than second one.
I feel like if I had more context and cared more about the characters I would prefer the second cutscene for providing more character development... But seeing this for the first time with no other info, I have more appreciation for the snappy pacing of the first scene. It gets straight to the point.
I'm sorry but both cutscenes have their good and bad points. the 'bad' cutscene is better for games which focus more on telling the story through alternate means. Working so hard on a cutscene that looks visually beautiful, yet frustrates players because they have to sit through five minutes of it doesn't make it good. Ultimately it depends on the game.
just having mid-scene movement makes the story feel a lot more alive and dynamic
just trying to complement the video, honestly not trying to be an asshole.
1.-the way the cutscene starts makes no sense for it changes the tone of the whole game, i feel like to make a cutscene you need to have cohesion more than anything and just having 2 of the 4 party members pop up in the cutscene really destroys the immersion.
2.- it wastes a lot of time, sometimes i even get anxious on the battles scenes of pokemon so actually having 10 seconds of people walking a short distance is not quite the good way to make it.
3.-kind of not that important, i bet most people will use the face creator instead but never use an overworld characer if it doesn't match the face or sv character you try to represent in a text box, it destroy the main point of the face it's better to not use a face at all.
4.-the characters despite movement, talking and reacting to certain things during the cutscene still feel stiff, not because of them but of their surroundings, again this is a demo so i bet the map was made really quick so this is a plus but one should always make the backgrounds feel alive and in motion at all times, this will even make a cutscene with just two dudes talking for 15 minutes less hard to watch. things like kinds playing in the background, animals or particles will do.
5.-mind the sound of everthing, indeed having just one static song won't make it but also try to add sounds based on the surroundings. it will add more to the experience, for example trees moving, the sound of water and insects or animals alike.
what im trying to say is the rpg genre was once really static due to the lack of technology but now with the current power of an average pc you can make a world with the same simple design of ff with yet more complex world building, from the sounds, the background and the numerous npc's to the way people move, express and acts during a cutscene.
I liked the 2nd cutscene; because it wasn't so bland as the first. I think the reason why most people are hating on the 2nd cutscene, is because most people today want to get through things fast, fast, fast. They don't take the time to relax and enjoy and a nice story in between the constant slaughtering of monsters, etc.. Some of the newer RPG's I play have long introductions, and long cutscenes (Like Final Fantasy 12: The Zodiac Age).
I also have played RPG's with short dialog that starts you off playing right away, having to learn as you go and only experiencing short cut scenes to give you a generic understanding of your situation. Either way works, and each type has their pros and cons... and options.
The idea is to not get the point across, but to spend time on the cutscene. I spent hours on one scene and it looked a lot like the first one. So by spending another half hour on it, I added facial expressions and emote balloons to the dialogue. It instantly makes an improvement. No matter how good the text is, you have to have something going on in the 80% of the screen that’s taken up by a still of the characters talking.
Remnar I’m sorry, but most people want to actually play the fucking game rather than watch a movie.
DBR Liamg exfuckingactly
that game over part was pure genius
The second cutscene was very good. It was so good in fact, you had to misspell "you're" to make up for it.
Lmfao
It was good though.
Sorry to be nit-picky, but it needs a little proof-reading. "Your loud" should be "You're loud".
Bad grammar and punctuation can also make a cutscene feel tacky.
Screws immersion as well. Hate it when I'm thrown out of being completely invested in the story when I'm trying to make sense of what I just read.
Excellent info man. I'm a big fan of great storytelling and you really managed to set the mood in the second version.
I never liked the fade-out before a cutscene, I prefer it going seamlessly going over into a cutscene instead for greater immersion.
I think one thing the first cutscene did better was cutting to the point of the scene, whereas the other one seemed dragged out longer than was necessary (mainly considering it didn't seem to cover an important plot point). Games are made to be played, so minimising time spent on watching cutscenes should be a priority in my opinion.
Yea. It only really works if there is a flashback or if you are entering a room. If you stop in your tracks and the screen fades to the same location you are in, then it feels clunky.
I agree with your first half. However, it always depends on what you are trying to achieve. This was more of a charakter moment, not a plot cutscene. I don't care about these charakters, so for me this was just unnececarily drawn out. But an RPG in particular often needs to show of the characters and some background, so cutscenes like those have their place as well and are pretty important too.
Just not in the middle of an ongoing gameplay segment as this seems to be.
That game over screen put a smile on my face. Stuff like that shows effort and spirit put into the game. Not just a churned out "product".
I like the first one much better.
I would have them move a bit more, have the fairy move closer sooner and I am sure everyone would want to see a fairy if they are rare... so everyone lines up to ohhh and heart bubbles...
The second one had some good points but it was like a little boy did it or something... It was annoying how often he went without the item that sparkles! I wanted to hit him! lol... that is an example of "bad" to me. I would have him offer other things he found around the forest... like I found this red berry, is this it? Or "you cant mean this mushroom, right?" and the fairy getting upset at having her time wasted... then have them jump back in alarm and see the dew whatever thingy...
But this was very valuable in helping people see what they like and dont like about cutscenes!! So thanks for that!!
Right now for my game demo I have dialogues happen like at a statue or a tree or things like that because I plan to learn cut scenes and add them in for the finished game. I plan to fix them, I wanted to get the feel in the game to see if people liked it as it is my first :p I hope you have something like this for quests too as I did find this helpful!
hopefully this does not sound rude but here is my link at rpg maker, my alpha demo is ready :
forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/seaweed.112172/
I liked the first better. It was more straightforward. The only issue was that the fairy wasn't centered, and this issue was not only not fixed in the second one, it was made worse lol,
Also, the change of color in the cutscene really takes you out of it imo
I know this already way too late, but I noticed some commenters to be hyper critical at your work that it's almost doesn't make sense. The second one sure is long but it provided character to those actual characters and better immersion to the scene, which I can tell is an important scene (you are meeting a fairy, okay?). I actually enjoyed it despite being long, and sure it still can be improved and shortened. The only gripe I have is the images beside the dialogue, which doesn't provide enough significance in overall experience and seems like a redundancy. It's way better if you made it an actual image of their faces with different reactions to enhance the experience. Still a very good video overall and I really enjoyed what you did and probably will if it is in an actual game.
I really like those effects for the second cutscene. :) The little picture thing in the corner is pretty interesting too. If it isn't as straightforward as I think it is, then I'd really like to see a tutorial for that type of effect.
Its pretty straightforward and simple :P
The first one was pretty barebones, but honestly I feel it could easily be salvaged with some minor dialogue edits and also maybe adding in some formatting to the dialogue so there’s pauses and such.
The second one meanwhile is just overwrought and overproduced. I mean sure, clearly there was quite a lot more effort put into it. But that doesn’t make it good.
Thank you. Very helpful and gives me reason to stop and think how I might improve my work.
Tutorial with a project file here: ua-cam.com/video/0Cwia_hkyr8/v-deo.html
I like the second one! Good video
Imagine playing a basic JRPG somewhere between SNES and PS1 in quality and thinking too much dialogue is wasting time.
I dunno. I like seeing the characters faces a lot better. Maybe I’ll do camera panning stuff but leave the dialog boxes the same from the old cutscene.
How do you do the camera panning stuff? I haven't been able to find where to look up a tutorial. Maybe I don't know what to call it?
Some advices were good, some things were... maybe a matter of opinion. Like: battlers to express emotions - when there are perfectly usable face generators, in MV literally in the application. Fading to "start / end the cutscene" - is that really necessary? I mean, as a player I want to have my experience without.... unnecessary interruptions. I like the usage of bubbles and the map looks really good, though. Good job.
I really like the second cutscene.
Just some mistakes here and there, but it's 100% amazing!
This was great i liked the 2nd cutscene alot, it wasn't even that long if you ignore lying to the fairy. These people dont like stories in their games anymore....
I liked the first one better. But I don't play this sort of game much. From what little I know about the genre, people who play them seem to be quite happy to sit there and be told the plot. For me, I would rather be told "now you have to get this item" as efficiently as possible.
This is an old video, but I wanted to chip in an opinion. The video implies that theres an more linear proportion between effort put in and how good a cutscene turns out. Though effects can add more touch up where is needed, Id personally say that a cutscene of that caliber is a lot better off being used in a light amount of situations, like boss intros and other important cutscenes, instead of a more basic interaction like what seems to be the case with the fairy in the example, where the "bad example" goes on for roughly a minute, probably less, and the "good example" gets extended for over 4(?) minutes.
Id say it comes a lot more down to how well the dialogue is written, and how is it able to put information in a reasonable amount of time. Don't waste the players time if the situation seems too mundane. And use effects if you think it contributes to the overall style of your game, and if it can add some good tension or flare when needed, but don't use too many. Also, this is just more of a personal nitpick of mine, but I think that 4th wall breaks are kind of silly, and should be reserved for secrets, where the tone of the game matters less.
I like the simplicity of the first one more
Me when my cutscene is worse than the bad cutscene
👁👄👁
I really like the second one. Maybe its because I really like Heavy-Narrative JRPG stories.
I think a comprimize in the middle would be perfect
Definitely getting some Tales of Symphonia vibes from these people
In the comments i link a tutorial you can check out :)
@@TeamUnpro thanks man, i appreciate it
And there was a typo (I will avoid saying it was a grammatical error) "your loud", should be you are or "you're". Simple mistake, but after there, their and they're, it's probably a common one that is used incorrectly.
So basically a fade-in, screen pan and a ton more dialogue.
The second cutscene had a LOT of filler. I think cutscenes should be short and sweet; with every piece of dialogue serving a purpose.
The worst advice I see in this video is: "TO make a good cutscene you
need a lot of scripts and knowledge of how to use them or your cutscene
just sucks" That's not what RPG Maker is about. True the first cutscene could have more filling dialogue, but the second one just says "be super awesome automagically at RPG Maker or you suck" and that's terrible advice.
"be super awesome automagically at RPG Maker or you suck"
Take a chill pill, I'd never say to anybody "You suck at RPG Maker" Hell I make tutorials on it.Also why are you quoting "TO make a good cutscene you need a lot of scripts and knowledge of how to use them or your cutscene just sucks"? I never said anything of the sort so...? I already mentioned calling this "Good vs bad" was a mistake but I can't travel through time, and I"m not about to delete the video because of it, so...
Oh, men, great idea! Thanks for the video! ☺
I laughed so hard on the game over screen bit 🤣 I love it when someone breaks the 4th wall!
Agree with how the scene been done, but explaining message system is kinda out of context, since it's a style preference.
The first one was better the bad one. :/
If you want to know how to make *actually* good cutscenes... play The Way, one of the best RPGmaker games in existence. The cutscenes in that game were true works of art.
Actually, I liked the first scene better. The dialogue speed in the second case was so slow. Also, if you intend to only use two lines where one line is the character name, don't use images. If you intend to use images, then don't use names! After all, once I know that red haired dude is called Harold, I'll recognize him anywhere. And if you do use names, make sure the text is formatted properly. Having a sentence like "Hello, could you please be so kind and buy me-" in one screen and "-some apples?" looks awful.A dialogue needs some formatting to look nice, or else it is merely blank text. And "Hello. Could you please be so nice-" "-and buy me some apples?" looks much better if you have to stretch one sentence over multiple screens.
That's not all though. The scene was very drawn out. It's completely apparent that the cutscene is supposed to be a small cutscene, so you don't need to worry about it that much. But it was just sooooooo sloooooooow. There was literally not enough going on to justify the speed. Small speed is good for emotional scenes, not for small cutscene. Not to mention the map was awful and the music as well, so I wanted to escape the second cutscene as fast as I could.
So the first one was much better than the second one. Because it exactly allowed that. It's by no means good though.
Can you tell me what was so awful about the map? I'm not getting defensive or trying to come to this guy's rescue, I'm going to make RPG games myself in the near future so I'm trying learn and get as much advice as I can. It also helps me to see examples of certain things done poorly in RPG-making.
The Sinful Fangirl I dont entirely agree with them, I thought the mapping was actually pretty good
There are further improvements that could be made to the map, such as making the trees not all the same size to make the forest less artificial looking. For example, big round trees mixed with tall but not so wide trees as well as small bushes.
For the love of god read articles about script writing and rules of a good dialogue if you want good cutscenes!
05:13 ...yeah...it's you fairy aren't you.
I like the first cut scene imo
The good one is amzing! But it demands so many time and money to get everything looks perfect. IMO the best is use the first one for normal scenes and the second at specific moments of the storyline which get more significance and don't bothers the player
(Look, this is just me but), I think the 2nd part is WAY too long, i'm saying the start of it, well, here it comes guys, the cinema sins thing, so be ready!: 1:07 These characters walk too slow (not much but still), come on guys, are u some kind of snail!? Go fast! (Number of sins: 1) 1:30 Are u serious ur asking this, man? I mean, ready for what, ready to a monster pop up out of nowhere and get u, good job whoever did this ''magnificent'' cutscene, u really choose some words that are very ''O R I G I N A L'' (Number of sins: 2) 1:44 Wow, the very known and i guess its very used: ''Love,'' come on, u can do better than this! (Number of sins: 3) 2:03 Still love, u can take my word. (Number of sins: 4) 2:22 -1 Sin for the ''pissed'' word bc it's funny for me, that's something. (Number of sins: 3) 2:25 ''Geez, u have bad grammar, (at the geeze word) can u work on that!?'' (Number of sins: 4) 2:32 Really? adorableness is a thing for sparing?! welp, there's the ''Ralsei's Fluffy Side'' thing now, i would put that as a -1 sin, but i don't think it'll ''pass'' so yeah (Number of sins: 5) 2:38 Oh nvm, they think they aren't so -1 sin then. (Number of sins: 4) 2:56 Oh really? Why diden't u choose ur f*****g mind then!? If u rpg heroes know palces then u know swords! Geez, this is some the legend of zelda shit, u need things just to do other things, isn't that annoying!? (Number of sins: 5) 3:03 Wow, the ''Sword Of Spark'' Very creative name i can say. (Number of sins: 666)
Also, it was worth it to make that long comment, idc if u say that this is wrong, respect ppl's opinion.
@@peterssonamancio5641 this is how everyone should comment- respectfully criticizing the video or methods used in the video, while explaining the purpose of the dislike, etc
Yt comments need more of you. Lol
@@TeamUnpro Hey unpro, fun fact: The "Petersson Amâncio" You were talking to was actully me in the cpu! (Computer)
this was actually rly helpful tanks !
Damn this comment section is war
But people
Cutscenes are cutscenes
wasn't even the same cutscene, the dialog and sprites when talking were different, they didn't have the same pace either. The second one dragged on too long. To me, the first one was better, and most of the comments agree. You should have used better examples as both were good and bad in different ways. this video is more like showing 2 ways to do a cutscenes.
"Your voice"
Y'know just having correct grammatical structure and proper word usage goes a long way lol. In all seriousness though great example. I recently finished my first full game and noticed I did a lot of pretty bland, unemotional cutscenes in it, and I'm making an active effort to do it better in my next one.
Ah fml I can't believe I made that typo :'D Thanks lol, and best of luck! hope your game gets noticed by people :)
TeamUnpro thank you! Would you like a link to it for yourself? I know you get busy with plugins and tutorials, but it'd be cool to get feedback from someone as knowledgeable as you. You can even use it as an example in your videos if you want.
Eventually I'm going to start shoutouts again, ask me then since it'll also help promote your game a little :)
Can you put a link I might try something new ! :)
That's awesome. But I wouldn't want to do this with every story character!! OMG that would be so dramatically time consuming and frustrating.
the second cutscene looks like heroes saving the world for the first time long time ago and first cutscene looks like heros need to save the world again in future and everything is happening in same world. i also felt like they were not the same characters in both cutscenes
I like the “Good” example, feels a lot more dynamic and professional.
Might I ask how did you add the black bars? Did you set it as a common event?
The black bars are pictures :) They're just shown using the Show Picture command. see here for a test file you can open up: ua-cam.com/video/0Cwia_hkyr8/v-deo.html
@@TeamUnpro I believe you also get the same effect by making a copy of the first map and teleporting there. But the second map has black tiles.
Did you really compared a 1 min cutscene to a 5 min cutscene?
I think the length should be the same to be fair.
Your "good cutscene" is way too long for a lot of players.
You should give yourself the challenge to show a good cutscene that is just 1 or 1.5 min max.
I'm sorry but, 5 minutes is "too long"?
Holy shit, I never fully comprehended just how different tastes can be.
I personally like long cutscenes if the cutscenes have things in it worth being long. The little "love" thing going on seemed a bit forced, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. And everything else seemed fine for me.
By any chance, mind giving me your opinion on Visual Novels - since they're all JUST one really long cutscene with choices?
@@MythicAlys Visual novels are the thing I hate most of the time - choices don't matter most of the time and there's no gameplay. It's supposed to be like a book, except for that there are Wattpads and real books. When I see the title screen, I'm amazed and expecting an interesting game, until... I see typical "save", "load" and box that characters will use to talk with for the whole game. That's the moment I close the game with words "ANOTHER vn?", disappointed.
thank you
The good cut scene has "Geeze, your loud!" it should be "Geez, you're loud!"
Yeah that was uh, a test
I actually liked the first one better
I get the picture. I've spent 3000 hours making my game and I haven't made a single cutscene. Will probably add that flavor it needs.
The the problem with the first cutscene is that the part members are in an unnatural line behind the main character when the scene is happening.
One character is even facing the wrong direction. I would fade to black, place the characters as events around the map and then show the text. I've never done the black bars (do you use tiles or show picture for that? I guess both would work.)
Ill have to be honest; i prefer the first one. Less is more
And im here still trying to figure how does one have another character appear from a different area. I tried doing all I can think off to make a character appear out of nowhere or have the other character walk off the scene. Im also on MZ but I think its the same... Im trying to make a cut scene but not knowing this is probably killing the vibe least for me lol
So basically ... The bad cutscenes are something like what you see in a nes rpg like Final Fantasy 3 ... While the good cutscenes are something out of snes or ps1 .... But that good cutscene was so funny lol
It was badly titled, but what I was going for was to put effort into your scenes :P
But yes, yes it was.
The first one was better :D
Max Westphal I have to say that I agree with you.
Indeed..
This is why tutorials of this nature are completely worthless. What makes a good/bad cutscene, outside of poorly written dialogue, is completely subjective. What's good to one person will be bad to another... and vice versa.
Okay, so, I'm here because I have plans to do my first horror RPG maker game.
And, the good cutscene may had a good effects like black bars, moving characters. and such, but it really took way too long as it is unnecessary and losing players' interests.
Remember that it is not visual novel, but it is a game, and game is all about playing and not reading dialogues.
However, it also depends on genre, like the longer cutscene is recommended for psychological horror games, and the shorter cutscene is recommended for adventure games. Psychological horror focused on character's struggle and more dialogues should be about how they feel in their situation, and adventure focused on fighting monsters and save the world as the players wanted to take action.
It is hard to balance the gameplay, yes, but just remember what kind of game will it be. Just do what you focus (story or gameplay) first before adding others.
And, it also depends on the situation. Since my game will be similar to Ao Oni, it would be best that the cutscene to be shorter when it is not safe to have long conversation when the monster might enter the room any seconds, and the characters are also out of breath, anxious, or in panic as subtly telling the players that the characters are truly desperate to escape from the monster quickly. And, if the characters are in safe room, they finally have time to talk.
I think the climax cutscene is the longest than the beginning and ending cutscenes, but these should tell of why, how and what happened in the story. The climax cutscene must show that the characters' journey and struggles are worth it to go on further, to complete their goals. Your first cutscene is full of unnecessary talk, so I recommended to keep it way shorter and must be straight to the point. Oh, and the second cutscene, it does not need cinematic when talking to fairy whether you have an item or not. I recommended to use cinematic cutscene on every important parts of the plot.
In other words, common sense. Use your common sense by placing yourself in characters' shoes and think if it is important to talk in this kind of situation.
You might be asking of why I watched if I knew what to do, I just need some tips on how to make a good cutscene, and getting ideas from a video and comments just opened my understanding box. Just few words, and now I realized what should I do.
I’m working on a story-based game with quite a few cutscenes planned for it, hopefully this’ll help me.
The dialogue in the first version...
That cutscene is even longer than most of the cutscenes in Ocarina of Time
The good cutscene though has way too much irrelevant text ...
xD Its kind the same, just the last one looks like a cinema clip of 32 bits, from a player perspective, u probably like to add some ilustration or maybe a clip, but make it to long,its just..... probably make the player get boring of that. U know that saying, less words more action, well basically the first one took 25 seconds of the players time, mean while the second one takes like a 1 min or more. I preffer the first one, cause its make simple the message and not make it too long. if the second one, its a ilustration or a movie, i will probably say that it will 100% more cool
"less words more action" My girlfriend tells me this every night (#iliedimsinglebutneededanexcusetomakethisjoke)
But yeah I see your point there, I may redo this video since a lot has been learned since its creation
LMAO Harold?? xD Sounds like an old truck mechanic
i have a question: if i want to make a cutscene like in a Visual Novel Dating Sim but mixed with this kind of cutscene as well(like, showing an ilustration for a few seconds and then show the rest of the cutscene like the way you showed) what kind of plugin and/or event should i use? how should i write it and how? do you have any help for that?
im asking this cause im planning on making a dating sims game that also incorporates rpg exploration gaming style, and i would like to use VN characteristics in it.
I'd def wanna use an animated pictures plugin, RPG Maker 2003 has this ability built in but for some reason it's not available without a plugin for the recent ones. Animated pictures (Talking busts, etc) will add the required 'emotional impact' a VN needs ^_^
I'd keep the same layout, sorta, maybe instead of solid black, make the bottom / top bars barely see-through but the most important part is the animated busts
To me it's just a matter of context. Imagine having a wonderful 3 minutes cutscene just to open a chest. Would be annoying as hell.
On the other hand a 3 minutes final/middle of the story cut scene is good. Keep in mind that you are playing a video game, not watching a youtube video.
Boi, I can't even initiate a cutscene, nevermind make a good one.
The second example was much worse, in my opinion. The text boxes can't fit even a single idea in them unless it's a filler like "uh". The spacing between the last bit of the sentence and the first bit was just terrible (such as "Anything in exchange? I don't think.............I have any). I enjoyed the first example much more. It's straight to the point, it gets the question asked and answered, and the player is quickly back to playing the game. Having to watch pixelated figures slowly move to a pond and then go on too long with talking that doesn't matter would instantly lose my interest. With the second one, you have to wait through 2 and a half minutes of useless dialogue before the actual question crucial to the game's plot would even be asked. Showing the annoyance of the fairy to get to the game over screen is also entirely irrelevant to the video, and I'm not sure why you showed it. Also, the exchange for the fairy makes no sense. Why would the fairy want something she can easily obtain? There's no worth in something just lying on the ground, especially on the ground *right next to* the fairy herself. At least make it something worth while.
The second one is worse. It eats away at the players' time and nothing of value has happened. The first one might be rushed, but as a player I would even prefer that to the second scene.
cool video