3800 Supercharged L32/L67 - EVERYTHING you need to know UPDATED
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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3800sc ALL OUT rebuild series:
Part 1 - • 3800 Supercharged Fier...
Part 2 - • 3800 Supercharged Fier...
Part 3 - • ALL-OUT 3800 Superchar...
Part 4 - • ALL-OUT 3800 Superchar...
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ALL PARTS IN THIS VIDEO CAN BE FOUND AT www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p7 OR FOR MOBILE AT drive.google.com/file/d/1wqUJdMZ1XqcKJzC-2ZzbvLYMYE3QbmVq
3800sc ALL OUT rebuild series:
Part 1 - ua-cam.com/video/7Oq_ZTJDUdM/v-deo.html
Part 2 - ua-cam.com/video/17L58Zk-VTo/v-deo.html
Part 3 - ua-cam.com/video/dT3Hwe8S4X4/v-deo.html
Part 4 - ua-cam.com/video/6WixXiyCq5g/v-deo.html
Amazon Recommendation Store for 3800s/Fieros/Tools amzn.to/3hNViaa
3800sc Instructions www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html
3800sc Instructions MOBILE drive.google.com/file/d/1wqUJdMZ1XqcKJzC-2ZzbvLYMYE3QbmVq
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Great vid mate
Real L67 info and options
Awesome cut through no bullshit 👌🏻😎
Thanks!!
You should really just use the auto light 104's the old copper core plugs because it gives less of a "point" or hotspot in the combustion chamber. Every build is different but this is what I found on my Regal GS
I had 104's before. Think they're that much better than the AR103s?
great info, I don't even own a GM car but I'm getting drawn to the 3800 for some reason. I have an 02 Maxima 3.5 SE with a 6 speed for now.
Can't go wrong with them. Probably one of the best, easily modified, basic, yet most advanced pushrod engines out there besides the LS. They just aren't making anything like it anymore.
I think the link to the fiero forum is broken sir... Tried several times.
Are you talking about this? It doesn't really work on phones. It's a website problem: www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html
Nice comprehensive video - i learned a lot from watching this..
Glad to hear it!
Excellent video with good information for any 3800SC Fiero.
Glad it was helpful!
What cars did the Gen 3 supercharge come in?
Only 2004-2008 Grand Prix GTPs
Did GM make a DOHC V6 back in the 90s which used timing chains? I know the 3.4 had a main chain which drove two belts, but any chain ones? I know the 3800 was an OHV.
yeah, LQ1 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_60%C2%B0_V6_engine#LQ1
@@FieroAustin Thanks for the response. Yeah it seemed a decent engine used on a lot of cars. Only it's a main chain driving two belts, says there in the article. Granted, might be less overall strain than a direct to the crank system, but even today the idea of a wet oily rubber belt does not sit well with me. Again, thanks for the info. The modern 3.6 DOHC used 3 chains, similar to VW's VR6 line. If I ever got my hands on a Fiero to swap out, it'd likely be a VR6, I've seen a couple guys on UA-cam do it. One guy cut a bit into the rear storage area to modify the exhaust for the "wookie sound" as well as basically vanity plates for the engine cover.
@@jameslaidler2152 Of course! There may be other variations but I'm no expert :)
You mention most cars with the l67, and the parts that come with them. Any word on the 98 Riviera engine, looking at using it as a donor
I am not enirely sure what is on that car. It is probably similar to the regal (2door) and GTP, so i bet there would be a lot of overlap. If it does not have some stuff, check out the end of Build 1 for parts that you would need otherwise. www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p5
I have a big question for you can I put an l67 series 2 supercharged engine in my 1992 pontiac bonneville se
maybe. if you grab the mounts from series 2 engine. you will have to figure out the wiring harness on your own. use the computer from the series 2 and also reprogram it to delete VATS security and a few other things. i'm sure there's other concerns with hardware hookups. but i really have no idea. sounds like a big headache. nobody's probably documented any of that.
@FieroAustin but my bonneville have the L67 series 1 in Now. That why I was asking
@@qmb120 wiring will still be completely different. or just keep the series 1....
I've been thinking about getting one of these to put in a small car Ford truck maybe like an old Volkswagen how much more fuel does this use in a stock 3800 ?
You mean a non-supercharged 3800? I am not sure there is much difference. I have seen these get 35mph with the right setup.
@@FieroAustin I have been trying to get Buick with the 3800 just to drive around it's a big nice luxurious car and I saw a century that had a turbocharger on it but I was not able to get it I would probably prefer the turbo over the blower or supercharger and eventually find a small vehicle to put it in
@@darylhudson777 ah. i would expect 24mpg out of somethign like that
@@FieroAustin will the larger 90s four doors I looked up without a turbo get 30 on the highway and 20 in the city that's with an automatic transmission
Bro better watch your back. Captin Planet is gonna kick your ass. Lol.
lol best comment i've had right here
Most people don’t have much luck with changing pistons and rod bearings?Any decent machine shop should have no problems with that task.There are tons of Buick Grand national running fully bilt engines.
True. I think the "hype" around these engines is that people don't know how to condition crank/bearings/rods and end up putting new bearings without doing that and then they blow it up.
Killer soundtrack man
thanks, public radio for the win lol.
Sounds like I was smart to buy a GTP....
About to stuff the entire front clip under a 1970 bug....
Yep! Although it's possible without, they're getting hard to find in good shape.
I’m going to buy a used 98 Buick Regal GS with a 3800 supercharger. What type of gas do I need if driving normally?
pump gas is just fine. 87 octane. If you want more power and modify the engine appropriately (by increasing boost), you might want higher octane for higher knock resistance. 91 is everywhere and 93 is also around.
Great video. A lot of good info. Keep it up!
thanks!
I got an 01 boniville engine rebuilding it from the ground up. It's going in my 84 fiero 4 speed manual
Awesome! That's the car I used. Be sure to check out the swap instructions www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html or for mobile drive.google.com/file/d/1wqUJdMZ1XqcKJzC-2ZzbvLYMYE3QbmVq/view?usp=sharing
3800 is nothing but a slightly modified 3.8L Buick v6....same as the Grand National used and thousands of other GM cars used. It is just as rebuildable as any other engine. If someone has problem with lower end it is because they did not do it right. Ring gap should stay stock for up to 400hp and not be a problem. By the way...this engine is not good for much above 6k rpm. When you start going over that too far you need to get it professionally built. Indy cars running this engine generally failed above 9k and even at 8.5k rpm were only reliable enough to barely get to end of race.
Thanks for the info! I didn't want to go into the history of the engine much
Robert Clark that’s false though.... the 3800 is different to the 109 3.8 found in the grand nationals and t types
@@zerohourdrift Actually i am quite correct and as i said it is a modified 3.8L Buick V6 in reality. Don't know how old you are, but i remember when the 3800 came out and the specs and story behind it. I was extremely interested in the engine because of its foundation being one of my favorite engines.
Robert Clark all I’m saying is, it uses no parts from the 3800 found in the grand national. The engine was completely redesigned. Hell anyone can figure that out, it’s readily available info on the internet. The only thing it shares with the GN motor is the displacement lol
@@zerohourdrift But Matt if Robert acknowledged that, well then he wouldn't be able to tell you how much he knows and that you clearly couldn't know as much. He is quite correct if you consider any Buick V6 with the same displacement a "modified" LD5 and not a redesign, progression, evolution (pick your synonym).
Love the video.....my computer was already performance program...the engine is out and I’m going with a turbo with a 3000 torc converter and 60 pound injectors....it’s hard to find E85 gas so I’m stuck at using 60 pound injectors.....the fuel pressure regulator will probably be just as good as having to have my computer re programmed....the PCM has already the deletes and performance shifting, and the idle and Rev limit disabled.
I’m using a modified L67 intake modified with an opening like a series 3.....I’m planing on using the sandwiched intercooler and a external air iintercooler.
My trunk is already cut in half....so I might put a cooling fan under the exterior intercooler core and cut a square opening in my deck lid.
The turbo is pretty big” this is the reason I bought a 3000stall speed torc converter....might to a 50 shot of nitro oxide to activate on take off.
To spool faster.
So many choices lol.
Ps with a exhaust mounted turbo there’s only 1 space to route the oil return line...it’s one of the most frustrating part of the build...the automatic transmission blocks everything.
Hey I might advise you get reprogrammed anyways, if the tune isn''t already setup for 60lb injectors. That will really mess up fueling
One of these days!!!!!!!!!!
lol hit me up when that day comes!!
You bet Brother.
Please help me find a engine wiring harness 3800 sc from 2001 GTP
hope you saw my other responses.
Yes thank you so much. I have found one and it’s on its way
@@johnnybaker3751 awesome!!!!!
@@FieroAustin
Thank you so much for your advice thank you for just being kind enough to help others. Still have the task of doing this engine swap and getting the ECM tuned. So I may be looking to you for More advice LOL
@@johnnybaker3751 My pleasure. hit me up if you have any questions. Always looking for things to add to the instructions.
Thanks mate great video by the way
I have an idling surge it holds its rev but if I’m of the throttle it will surge at idle can you help
I’ve changed all vacuum lines ignition leads and plugs are new
Thanks
First check out your O2 sensors (make sure the front is OK and the rear is deleted from PCM or has a dummy). Check to make sure your MAP is plugged in correctly. Same with MAF and IAT. Then check your idle air control valve and then boost bypass control valve (could try unplugging it). See if there are any engine codes. Also have your tune checked by a professional.
Do you have a custom camshaft? That can cause strange idling if the PCM has not been programmed properly
AustinH thanks mate
Stock cam I’ll check all the above
Awesome video cheers 🍻
@@FieroAustin where exactly is the map sensor located on the S/C 3800? I know where it's located on the N/A 3800. Reason I'm asking is I have an L36 and looking into the L36 supercharger kit from zzperformance. Im just curious because I know you said yours wasn't hooked up in this video.
@@boosted0079 The MAP sensor is just mounted on a harness bracket near the supercharger. It's just a black rectangle.
Wish I could barrow you for a week when I swap my engine
haha.. just gotta mess up a few times and you'll be good!!
Some awesome tech in there...
I may have missed it, what was that fuel pressure regulator you’re using?
Also did you have an “engine only harness” made?
I’m doing an L67 into Chevette
It should be in the build thread, but it's here:
www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-afpr1
Nope, the harness I had made was specific to the Fiero. You'll have to work closely with someone to get a chevette harness made. Probably will have to do some research yourself. Check out www.alldatadiy.com/ - you can buy all wiring diagrams for cars here, and you will have to determine wire lengths yourself
@@FieroAustin
Thanks for the info and the fast reply!
Awesome video bud. Subscribed. Would love to see more 3800 Fiero videos. Get many reactions in public?
not at all haha. nor do I fancy that :)
@@FieroAustin do you know the weight difference between the 2.8 and 3.8?
@@bryantb3391 3800 is 392 lbs.
4t65e-hd is 214.4 lbs wet.
2.8 is 350 lbs.
TH125 3 speed auto is 230 lbs wet.
The 3800+4t65e-hd is a total of 606.4lbs.
The 2.8+TH125 is a total of 580lbs.
The difference therefore between two automatic fieros is only 26.4lbs.
@@FieroAustin wow thanks man i appreciate it
Hey Austin My 87 Fiero has a 5spd. I am putting in a 3800 from a automatic. How much modification is needed for this swap. And as always your help is much appreciated
Well there's not that much unique about the swap other than from the build 1 list here. Really all you need is a FieroRog flywheel and flywheel bolts and mounts and some way to hookup the shifter. Those things were covered in here though. www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p5
Thank you Austin. I have another ? I need rear brake pads do I ask for 87 Fiero or is there something else that’s a fit. I don’t like the crazy looks and the “Fiero?” Remarks. Thank you 🙏🏻 Austin
@@johnnybaker3751 No problem. The 1984-1987 Fiero REAR brake pads also came on 1984-1988 Pontiac 6000 cars. The front pads were unique to Fieros. For the rears, try a BOSCH BP262 (Premium QuietCast Semi-Metallic), WAGNER ZX262 (QuickStop semi-metallic), or RAYBESTOS MGD262M (R-line metallic) seen here:
www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1987,fiero,2.8l+173cid+v6,1249152,brake+&+wheel+hub,brake+pad,1684
@@FieroAustin you are my hero. Thank you thank you
@@FieroAustin wish I could send you pictures. Anyway, we are at the point of taking carriage bolts out now
Great video man! I had a question. I bought a 2002 Chevy Monte Carlo SS (previously modded) it has a Gen. 5 M90 Super Charger. I need HELP identifying my engine!? Mine has the Northstar throttle body, ZZP cold air intake, ZZP spark plug cables. However, I can't tell (and so called "Experts") can't tell me what style of engine I have, L32, L67, L27 non-supercharged & etc. I'm trying to find out, if mine was an engine swap, or a ZZP super charger kit mod! I spun rod bearings, and my MC SS is just sitting. Advice please? How can I identify my engine, so that I can fix? Any casting numbers, stamped ID numbers? You obviously have a wealth of knowledge on the 3800 SC.
The difference in blocks are:
NA motors had different pistons (higher compression ratio)
Series 3 (gen 5 blower) motors had different connecting rods from Series 2 (gen 3 blower) motors
Omg you are a Guinness. How do you know this stuff. I have an 87GT that I want a 3800sc in it sooo bad. However I have next to 0 mechanical skills. Wish I could hang out with tou for a couple days. Thanks for the video you are awesome
check out my build thread. it is step by step, every part and every step you need to get one in.
www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html
Just wondering off topic can the stock 2.8 L-44 be rebuilt to deliver 190 HP and still run the stock ECM module. What you doing here is great but it is beyond my skill level.
I am not sure I can give you a perfectly accurate answer, but my gut says no.
If you want more power out of a non-forced induction naturally aspirated motor, you will have to increase torque or RPM or both.
Easiest way to gain power on small engines is increase RPM, but your PCM/intake/fueling would have to be heavily modified to support that (near impossible being 80s burn-in transistor tech).
Instead, you can increase torque by increasing bore size or stroke, or significantly modifying how the air flows through engine in general. That will be very expensive to do on a 2.8. It comes factory with an 89mm bore x 76mm stroke.
The easiest option I would say for you is get a 60° 3.4L L32 (NOT the 3800 or the DOHC) engine. It comes factory with a 92mm bore x 84mm stroke (different crankshaft). They came in 1993-1995 camaros and firebirds. It is pretty much the same engine, just bored larger, and is rumored to be a direct swap. Supposedly you can use all the same brackets, sensors, transmission bolt patterns, and wiring harness. Keep the computer/harness/sensors that came with it. It has a larger bore and thus more torque, and thus more power coming in around 160hp factory. You can slightly modify a 3.4, but honestly a 3800sc is the way to go if you want to put any time into it.
Check out the 60° engine family tree here, and look for the 1993 3.4L RWD Pushrod motor compared with the 1985 or 1988 2.8L FWD motors.
www.60degreev6.com/vb5/60V6FamilyTree
Honestly I think you're wasting your time to pick up 20-30hp with these old 60° engines. I have a very thorough step-by-step guide for both an easy and an advanced 3800sc engine swap here. I think it would be an equal amount of work and money, and you would end up with 230-280hp at a minimum.
www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html
Omg you are a Guinness. I have an 87 GT and I have next to no mechanical skills. I want a 3800sc in my car so bad. I wish I had just 50%of your knowledge I could probably make it happen. Thanks for the video I was blown away by your mad skills. How do you even learn this stuff. I wish I could spend a couple days just hanging out with you.
Well That's why I made this complete guide, I had to start from scratch, only took a matter of time, and I had less resources. You can do it! - www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html
Awesome Video.
Thanks!
did that block already have the stand alone pulley for the supercharger or did you bum it off another a gtp or bonneville? i'm only asking because i'm trying to do a top end top on my l36 regal and need to get one of those pulleys and mounts
It did not. I bought them from www.smoothflowpulleys.com/
you need both the hub and the pulley.
Removing the old one and pressing the new one on can be difficult.
I have a L32 SC engine I cannot find the MAP sensor anywhere van you help
It should be mounted to the side of supercharger. There are two of them on there actually. Small black sensors. Here is what the newer style for a L32 series III you probably have looks like.
repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/20/2f/84/medium/0996b43f80202f84.gif
On earlier L67 series II models, there is only one MAP and it looks different. You actually only need 1 for a Fiero swap, and I think the older ones work great. Here is what the old style looks like. www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=497116&cc=1317113&pt=11207&jsn=417
Hey, quick question, did you bolt the gen v lower intake manifold to the L67 block, and every bolt lined up?
lol I saw your facebook post about this earlier I had the gen 5 lower intake manifold and the gen 5 blower together. I also had Series III heads but I think the heads are exactly the same. If you used my build thread for build 2, it does say you need to get both the supercharger and the lower intake manifold. Good luck man, hope it works out!!!
@@FieroAustin I have all of the parts, it will be done.
@@snutmeez Nice!
You should never replace your tires, as they all will eventually go bad over time.
they were dang bad already :)
Awesome
Thank you!
Hey mate, do you know anyone that still makes alternator brackets for that location ?
cheers
Just FieroRog
facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009043739495
How are you increasing the airflow to the intake doesn't seem like it would get enuff clean cool air
larger throttle body. better supercharger. big cold air intake filter. ported heads.
can I put series II heads on a pre-series 1 block?
Pre-series 1? I don't think so.... not sure such a thing exists...? Are you talking about the 3.8 from before the 3800? In that case, no.
Will park Ave ultras engines work like the gtp and regals? I'm just getting into fieros and am trying to learn as much as I can. Have been looking for regals and park avenues because those are more common in my area.
Check out my build thread. www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p5
This is what you will need if you instead use anything but a Regal/GTP:
GTP External Transmission Range Gear Selector Neutral Safety Switch / Range Sensor Switch (1x):
[URL=www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1998,grand+prix,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1317113,electrical-switch+&+relay,neutral+safety+switch+/+range+sensor,4584]www.rockauto.com/en...+/+range+sensor,4584[/URL]
GTP Range Sensor Switch Connector for above:
[URL=www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1998,grand+prix,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1317113,electrical-connector,neutral+safety+switch+/+range+sensor+connector,2602]www.rockauto.com/en...ensor+connector,2602[/URL]
GTP/Regal Steel Oil Pan (1x):
ULTRA-POWER 264124 {#12512670, 12563240} - [URL=www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1998,grand+prix,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1317113,engine,oil+pan,5562]www.rockauto.com/en...,engine,oil+pan,5562[/URL]
GTP Oil Pan Gasket (1x) (needs cutting to fit over non-GTP oil pickup tube; Depending on your car, you can get either get a GTP oil pickup tube or get a non-GTP oil pan gasket to avoid cutting):
ACDELCO 12587964 - www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1998,grand+prix,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1317113,engine,oil+pan+gasket,5436
Oil Filter Housing Gasket (1x):
ACDELCO 25534742 - www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1998,grand+prix,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1317113,engine,oil+filter+adapter+gasket,10649
GTP/Regal oil filter bracket (1x):
GM 12569219 ; 24508441 - More info at www.gmtuners.com/swap/3800.htm
GTP/Regal angled coil pack bracket (1x) - cut engine mount dogbone off, shown in videos posted below. Get at junkyard including the GTP Tensioner pulley on coil pack bracket:
GM 24507211 ; 24504360 - www.gmpartsbin.com/p/Buick__Regal/Bracket-Mount-Front--Rear--Upper--Lower/48184566/24507211.html?partner=googlebase
GTP or Oldsmobile Torque Converter (1x):
DACCO B21JXFM - www.rockauto.com/en/parts/dacco,B21JXFM,torque+converter,8668
3-pin Temperature sender & wire (1x):
Duralast TU178DG - www.autozone.com/engine-management/coolant-temperature-sensor/duralast-gold-coolant-temperature-sensor-tu178dg/625841_71058_0
@@FieroAustin thanks! Looks like getting a regal is well worth it then. Do you know if there's a build guide which includes the 5 speed getrag transmission?
@@ColtenHood you bet! Go check the links again; originally they were broken.
For a manual, visit my build thread again and hit Control F on your keyboard and type in the word Manual.
The wiring harness diagram actually is for a manual. there are some other bracket differences too. I am not 100% sure everything you need is there, but it should cover most of it. Otherwise go looking through PFF some more.
www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p11
@@FieroAustin you're the man!
How did you raise the car up safely to drop the cradle?
There are some jack points near where the coolant tubes run out towards the firewall on either side.
Was that a N/A engine? And you put a SC on it? I have a 2002 Grand Prix Gt I want top swap it? Can take a SC an put it on my series 2 N/A motor?
No it was not a NA engine. Don't do that unless you gap the piston rings differently and know how to handle the extra compression; the NA pistons are different.
AustinH thank you 💪🏼
You can absolutely top swap a GT. Bottom ends are plenty strong. Check mine on my channel. I even had another top swapped GT before my current one for 8 years at 275whp with no issues. Yes it has 9.4 compression vs 8.5 on the gtp. Just scan for knock and you'll be fine. Tuning is key.
@@michaeltoscano4491 thank you cause i don’t know what the fuck Austin was talking bout 😂
@@michaeltoscano4491 and much more critical about octane and temperature unless it's on e85.
Wheres your MAP sensor at
It should be mounted to the side of supercharger. There are two of them on there actually. Small black sensors. Here is what the newer style for a L32 series III you probably have looks like.
repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/20/2f/84/medium/0996b43f80202f84.gif
On earlier L67 series II models, there is only one MAP and it looks different. You actually only need 1 for a Fiero swap, and I think the older ones work great. Here is what the old style looks like. www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=497116&cc=1317113&pt=11207&jsn=417
@@FieroAustin nice thx I figured out that the bracket wasn't on the engine but since I'm using my 2001 fbody pcm I'll just use the map sensor from the camaro for now and if I need to upgrade to a better aftermarket one I will down the road where would the best spot to mount it any suggestions? I read one person just uses a brach of vacuum line to put it into thr system and then just tucked it away somewhere but like example I own a 03 civic ex and I did a intake manifold swap for a bigger one that flows more air I just drilled out a hole and screw hole and placed on the top middle of manifold and used rtv to complete the seal cause it had a leak at that spot at first it reads fine on the honda no idle issues or dtc
Clean spark is always needed for maximum compression with maximum air intake, if you ain't got the mixture lined up just right you ain't getting maximum horsepower, ever run a car on file plugs.
Thanks for the tip
Where did you get the metal vacuum connector on top of supercharger ?
Haha it's not metal, just spray painted silver.
You spent some time and money to get better airflow. Such as porting your heads, having larger valves, N* TB ect. Doing those steps in a NA engine will provide more air and thus more power. But with a SC engine can this also accomplished by getting a smaller pully? I am not saying that (all things equal) that what you did would be worse, actually slightly better. But the cost and time to accomplish almost the same thing (more air) can be done with a smaller pulley if I understand it correctly.
You are right, a blower is the best source of cheap power. Without intercooling or running E85, you would be lucky to make more power under a 3.4" pulley.
However I got my heads ported for $200, the N* TB/LQ4 MAF for $25, and the larger valves came with my heads. Junkyards are great. Stock heads will outflow an M90 according to intense, but it certainly can't hurt.
the smaller ports and valves will cause higher temperatures because of their restriction which will require a more docile tune so the bigger valves and ports will help higher rpms but the smaller ports and valves help the lower rpm range which actually is where the motor will spend most of it's time in a street car life.
WAiting for some 0-60 time or track times!
still working on it lol, tune in soon for more...
Good job! Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!