The main difference between l67 and l32 is the gen iii vs v m90. To accommodate the gen v on the l32, gm opened up the lower intake and used a bigger throttle body that's drive by wire. You can actually take a l67 lower intake manifold. Put a l32 gasket on it as a template and cut away. Now you have a l32 lower intake :). That's the main difference. There are 2 additional differences that are minor, but honestly doesn't matter much. First is the heads. The l32 got slightly bigger intake valves. .03" bigger.. barely anything really, doesn't make much of a difference. The last is the piston rods. There's a big debate on which is stronger. Some say l67 rods, others say l32. I couldn't tell you. One things for sure. The l32 rods are thicc bois. When they break they typically shatter. L67 rods bend. From what I gathered from watching multiple people build and break 3800 (I've never broken a rod 'knock on wood') it appears they handle equivalent power. The way they fail is different. Remember, power breaks rods, bad tune chips pistons, wear eats bearings. I've commonly seen multiple turbo 3800 (l67, l32, l36, l26) sit reliably at the 4-500 whp (unsure on crank hp). It appears 800 whp is the limit on factory 3800 rods. I fully believe that your particular l32 was a failing engine. Junkyard engines are like a box of chocolates... The major power difference is the gen v m90. The other 2 veritables don't make a significant difference in terms of power. Theoretically, when you gen v swapped that l67. It in essence became a l32.
@@douglasnolden3888 Vulcans have a lot of performance potential, a friend of mine had a Taurus that we ported the heads, ran ratio rockers, ported throttle body, headers and an x pipe and it picked up a very surprising amount of power along with an adjustable fpr to tune it
Great comparison and too bad L32 had some issues.Both of these Buick engines are what Pontiac should have put into the Fiero GT, not just the Grand Prix or Bonneville. A 400 hp Fiero GT would give Corvette a good run for the money and all because of poor GM management Pontiac is no longer around. Stroker 3.8L big bang engine with existing GM parts, please Richard.❤
The actual differences between a L67 and L32 can get kinda weird really. Before 2004 gm was experimenting with the L67 to "upgrade" it if you will. You can actually nab a series 2 block built as a series 3 engine and labeled as such in certain 2004+ Grand Prixs...why do I know this...I went and pulled an engine for my 2006 Grand Prix GT with an L32 out of a yard to start building recently. I pulled the engine out of a 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, when I got the engine pulled the back of the block was stamped series 2 3800 but the plastic cowl on the top end was labeled series 3 supercharged 3800, once looking at the manufactur date of the car I pulled the engine, I found it was actually built in March of 2003, so funny enough early built 2004 "L32" are technically just upgraded L67s and by upgraded I mean before they started casting new blocks stamped series 3 for the later 04 models, they used series 2 blocks (both blocks are the exact same! In fact in the bottom end the only difference is any 3800s built for the 04 and up models is that it uses sinter forged powdered connecting rods over the old cast iron ones in the L67) The big differences come from the top end only, L32s have upgraded g5 superchargers, larger electronic throttle bodies with drive by wire electronics, larger exhaust and intake valves, and slightly improved cylinder head designs as such for the larger valves. I would also like to note that L67s seem to do better with low octane fuel than l32s while L32s do better by what I see with higher octane fuel. It would be a good assumption of mine with the way that L32 failed for you, that the previous owner ran low octane fuel (87 or lower) most of its life which it HIGHLY doesn't like and will cause the engine to fail in a fashion similar to yours. Basically the engine doesn't get the proper power to operate normally. The only reason I know this is cause I have had my stock 06 L32 for over 10 years and trust me when I say if you use lower than recommended 91 octane you WILL know you have, it is sluggish as on 87 octane and doesn't want to accelerate, basically it feels like you are driving an L26 (NA Series 3), even 89 octane has a very slight delayed response as well. In all if you take the heads, supercharger, throttle body, connecting rods, wiring for an L32 and lower intake manifolds off the L32 and place it on an L67 you create (drumroll please) an L32... Some swear the L67 is better while others say the L32 is better but personally by my opinion the 3800 is an amazing engine NA or boosted, hell I like telling everyone it weighs just barely less then the all aluminum 3.6L they have on the market now and the 3800 is all cast iron, that and the series 3 is the first gas engine to receive the SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) certification back in 2005, and at the time all other engines including the series 2 only were LEV. So a testament in my opinion of a lost great amazing engine.
Rod bearing failure is common around the 215-250,000 miles in the 3800 S2& S3 engines. To check for this issue just run it with the knock sensor unplugged.
I'm putting a 3.8 sc in a MGB. The blower intlet is at the back of the engine and this is a pain in the butt. I like quirky combinations, but a turbocharged 3.8 using the na intake is probably a much easier swap
@@xmo552 it depends on your goals. The 4.3 had good torque and can use a lot of small block Chevy accessories as well as using the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 350. That gives you lots of options and you can get Edelbrock intake manifolds for a carburetor setup if you desire or go the route of port fuel injection of you go with a later engines, you will just have to do more to upgrade the fuel system if you go EFI. They also used 3.8s in gen 4? Camaros, you just probably won't want to use the supercharger but the rwd 3.8 had a better throttle body position. In this case you may have more trouble finding and oil pan that fits. The 3.6 V6 Chevy uses in Camaros and Colorado's might not be a bad option, you just may not have as easy a time finding a cheap engine but I believe more people are starting to swap them into cars and the probably offer greater power potential.
Thank you for doing all this 3800 stuff. I know you're moving on from the 3800s. But I would find it very interesting if you did a "top swap" comparison. Take the higher compression NA block and put the l67 heads and blower set up to see the power difference. L67 block is like 8.5:1 , NA 9.4:1
@@John-cw4lz well I guess he has said lots of times that each point of compression adds 3-4% so if you are making 200hp or 500hp it should be the same percent
Second comment ha! Lol I think maybe to get a better test result, is just swap the lower intake, gen 5 blower and TB from the L32, onto the L67 motor. They're technically supposed to be the same bottom end spec wise, so using the same short block could give realistic number differences? That would at least remove the possible problems from the L32 motor. Good video Richard. Interesting that the intake valves were the same size though. Document specs have the series 3 heads having tiny slightly larger intake valve. 1.83" vs 1.8"
@@richardholdener1727 I guess I misunderstood and missed that part. It was my understanding that you used 2 different engines all together. One being the L67 and the other being the L32 that had a possible bad cylinder. Did I misunderstand?
from what i’ve read, the bottom halves of the motors are basically identical. The l32 heads flow better, and the supercharger is more efficient, which is why it is rated for more power. I don’t think the block, crank, or pistons would make much, if any difference
would love to see a 2008+ chrysler powertech 4.7l v8, the corsair version with 16 spark plugs. on allpar the specs and building materials used in the 2008+ models seems like a great start to a surprising amount of power. stock and turbocharged or fully built and turbocharged would be awesome.
Seems like a basic engine condition difference. We'd see equivalent L67 GTP's perform at wildly different levels on the track and dyno (we called them "factory freaks"). It'd be interesting if you find another one of each to repeat numbers, but I know you dedicated alot of time to 3800's already.
Sometimes it's the small stuff that adds up to this. One cylinder head casting may just not have casting flash in areas another does intake manifolds too. These are mass produced units with many different molds casting heads intakes blower housings.
Hello from Australia...we have the l67 in a Holden Commodore.. code named the vs Commodore. 1996 era. It's a l37 na or a l67 SC 3800 rear wheel drive..I'm currently in the process of building a gravel rally car and a butichmen circuit car ...I'm currently trying to decide whether to use the L67. $ 1500 need a real build... well it would for race purposes...or a very hot na v6.. in Australia we call them a Ecotec... GM ... I sencerly respect your opinions... you make a lot of sense.... As a rally car?? Yes it's heavy but it's very cheap for cars here in Australia.. engines are a sensible price for a l67 ... Just need a god like person like you to help me with a eng build. I can almost guarantee that this is a winning combination for a rear wheel drive over 3000cc win. Long time ago I was involved in a vs Commodore v6 build ..na. It was a very quick car in the right hands. Touqu is the winner in these very under ratted engines... I'm currently working on building one
I’d like to see a video of the 3800 turbo vs supercharger test. I’m looking to swap a 3800 into my mr2 since I just have one and I’d like to put a turbo on it. I always see supercharged dyno tests but turbo should be able to make more power but I’d like to know how much more.
I use to love the l67. Until I met the lh2 and lc3 then lm7 then lq4........... I be watching hellboy's build and that makes me want to get another gtp. Then I drive my lady friend's fwd vehicle and be like nah!!!!!!!!!
Did you use the same set of heads for both? You mentioned both had L32 heads, but the ones on the L67 were r3conditioned. I’m guessing the set on the L32 were as found in the junk yard. That and a little more wear in the shortblock could be the difference.
Why not just look for a set of Buick 3.8L/G-body or 4th-gen F-body headers, Rich? You know there's many looking to lay their hands on either of these engines for a swap into a RWD or 4WD [S-truck] platform, providing they get a hold of the inlet Holden used to put it in their Monaro CV6!
The older g body 3.8 engine is way different from this series 2 3800. Those won't fit due to the exhaust port spacing. The 3800 f- body headers will fit though.
What’s the difference between the l67 and the l36 I want to supercharge the l36 in my 2003 monte will the lower intake and supercharger bolt up to my l36? And what else would I need to make this work? Do I need a ecu intercooler etc
Richard I have a 4.2 stroker kit from Mace Engineering in Australia with Hyper pistons. I'd ship it to you to be used for your channel for a video or series of videos if you do the machine shop block work and ship me the short block after your done?
Highly doubtful that an l32 would make more. Only different in bottom end I believe is the rod material. And what made the l32 20 more hp was a more "aggressive" tune, better tb, supercharger, and slightly slightly bigger intake valves.
The main difference between l67 and l32 is the gen iii vs v m90. To accommodate the gen v on the l32, gm opened up the lower intake and used a bigger throttle body that's drive by wire. You can actually take a l67 lower intake manifold. Put a l32 gasket on it as a template and cut away. Now you have a l32 lower intake :). That's the main difference.
There are 2 additional differences that are minor, but honestly doesn't matter much. First is the heads. The l32 got slightly bigger intake valves. .03" bigger.. barely anything really, doesn't make much of a difference. The last is the piston rods. There's a big debate on which is stronger. Some say l67 rods, others say l32. I couldn't tell you. One things for sure. The l32 rods are thicc bois. When they break they typically shatter. L67 rods bend. From what I gathered from watching multiple people build and break 3800 (I've never broken a rod 'knock on wood') it appears they handle equivalent power. The way they fail is different. Remember, power breaks rods, bad tune chips pistons, wear eats bearings. I've commonly seen multiple turbo 3800 (l67, l32, l36, l26) sit reliably at the 4-500 whp (unsure on crank hp). It appears 800 whp is the limit on factory 3800 rods.
I fully believe that your particular l32 was a failing engine. Junkyard engines are like a box of chocolates... The major power difference is the gen v m90. The other 2 veritables don't make a significant difference in terms of power. Theoretically, when you gen v swapped that l67. It in essence became a l32.
This is the stuff that has always crossed my mind about the 3.8.. thanks for the videos!
V6 mustang help WOULD be nice. Always v8 motor support and v6 owners are told get a v8 instead of solid help
@@douglasnolden3888 Vulcans have a lot of performance potential, a friend of mine had a Taurus that we ported the heads, ran ratio rockers, ported throttle body, headers and an x pipe and it picked up a very surprising amount of power along with an adjustable fpr to tune it
@@turkeyboyjh1 thank you soo much!!! Ill start to look into it and see whats what with it. God bless!
Great comparison and too bad L32 had some issues.Both of these Buick engines are what Pontiac should have put into the Fiero GT, not just the Grand Prix or Bonneville. A 400 hp Fiero GT would give Corvette a good run for the money and all because of poor GM management Pontiac is no longer around. Stroker 3.8L big bang engine with existing GM parts, please Richard.❤
The actual differences between a L67 and L32 can get kinda weird really. Before 2004 gm was experimenting with the L67 to "upgrade" it if you will. You can actually nab a series 2 block built as a series 3 engine and labeled as such in certain 2004+ Grand Prixs...why do I know this...I went and pulled an engine for my 2006 Grand Prix GT with an L32 out of a yard to start building recently. I pulled the engine out of a 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G, when I got the engine pulled the back of the block was stamped series 2 3800 but the plastic cowl on the top end was labeled series 3 supercharged 3800, once looking at the manufactur date of the car I pulled the engine, I found it was actually built in March of 2003, so funny enough early built 2004 "L32" are technically just upgraded L67s and by upgraded I mean before they started casting new blocks stamped series 3 for the later 04 models, they used series 2 blocks (both blocks are the exact same! In fact in the bottom end the only difference is any 3800s built for the 04 and up models is that it uses sinter forged powdered connecting rods over the old cast iron ones in the L67)
The big differences come from the top end only, L32s have upgraded g5 superchargers, larger electronic throttle bodies with drive by wire electronics, larger exhaust and intake valves, and slightly improved cylinder head designs as such for the larger valves.
I would also like to note that L67s seem to do better with low octane fuel than l32s while L32s do better by what I see with higher octane fuel. It would be a good assumption of mine with the way that L32 failed for you, that the previous owner ran low octane fuel (87 or lower) most of its life which it HIGHLY doesn't like and will cause the engine to fail in a fashion similar to yours. Basically the engine doesn't get the proper power to operate normally. The only reason I know this is cause I have had my stock 06 L32 for over 10 years and trust me when I say if you use lower than recommended 91 octane you WILL know you have, it is sluggish as on 87 octane and doesn't want to accelerate, basically it feels like you are driving an L26 (NA Series 3), even 89 octane has a very slight delayed response as well.
In all if you take the heads, supercharger, throttle body, connecting rods, wiring for an L32 and lower intake manifolds off the L32 and place it on an L67 you create (drumroll please) an L32...
Some swear the L67 is better while others say the L32 is better but personally by my opinion the 3800 is an amazing engine NA or boosted, hell I like telling everyone it weighs just barely less then the all aluminum 3.6L they have on the market now and the 3800 is all cast iron, that and the series 3 is the first gas engine to receive the SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) certification back in 2005, and at the time all other engines including the series 2 only were LEV. So a testament in my opinion of a lost great amazing engine.
Rod bearing failure is common around the 215-250,000 miles in the 3800 S2& S3 engines. To check for this issue just run it with the knock sensor unplugged.
These videos are making me consider a 3.8 SC swap into my 4.3 S10…..
Just go 5.3?
I'm putting a 3.8 sc in a MGB. The blower intlet is at the back of the engine and this is a pain in the butt. I like quirky combinations, but a turbocharged 3.8 using the na intake is probably a much easier swap
@@eazhar that is the current plan. Cammed 5.3 should plenty.
Any other good v6 options for a rwd? I'm thinking of swapping into an early Jeep.
@@xmo552 it depends on your goals. The 4.3 had good torque and can use a lot of small block Chevy accessories as well as using the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 350. That gives you lots of options and you can get Edelbrock intake manifolds for a carburetor setup if you desire or go the route of port fuel injection of you go with a later engines, you will just have to do more to upgrade the fuel system if you go EFI.
They also used 3.8s in gen 4? Camaros, you just probably won't want to use the supercharger but the rwd 3.8 had a better throttle body position. In this case you may have more trouble finding and oil pan that fits.
The 3.6 V6 Chevy uses in Camaros and Colorado's might not be a bad option, you just may not have as easy a time finding a cheap engine but I believe more people are starting to swap them into cars and the probably offer greater power potential.
Love the v6 content Richard holdener could you maybe do some testing on the ford 3.8/3.9 or 4.2
The (dyno) hits just keep coming!!
Thank you for doing all this 3800 stuff. I know you're moving on from the 3800s. But I would find it very interesting if you did a "top swap" comparison. Take the higher compression NA block and put the l67 heads and blower set up to see the power difference. L67 block is like 8.5:1 , NA 9.4:1
that will be 10-12 hp
@@richardholdener1727 will that percentage of a gain stay roughly consistent while modding/increasing hp?
@@John-cw4lz well I guess he has said lots of times that each point of compression adds 3-4% so if you are making 200hp or 500hp it should be the same percent
Personally I blame squirrels
This would be a great engine for a fiero
There are builds out there
It is. A friend did it. 5-stars…would recommend.
Second comment ha! Lol
I think maybe to get a better test result, is just swap the lower intake, gen 5 blower and TB from the L32, onto the L67 motor. They're technically supposed to be the same bottom end spec wise, so using the same short block could give realistic number differences? That would at least remove the possible problems from the L32 motor.
Good video Richard. Interesting that the intake valves were the same size though. Document specs have the series 3 heads having tiny slightly larger intake valve. 1.83" vs 1.8"
DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO? THAT WAS DONE
@@richardholdener1727 I guess I misunderstood and missed that part. It was my understanding that you used 2 different engines all together. One being the L67 and the other being the L32 that had a possible bad cylinder. Did I misunderstand?
from what i’ve read, the bottom halves of the motors are basically identical. The l32 heads flow better, and the supercharger is more efficient, which is why it is rated for more power. I don’t think the block, crank, or pistons would make much, if any difference
*Supercharged L36 has entered the chat*
That's what I'm talking about lol
Me too
And blew up soon after entering lol.
L36 is the worst out of the lot
@@braydenparker8537 no the L26 is. It’s the weakest.
would love to see a 2008+ chrysler powertech 4.7l v8, the corsair version with 16 spark plugs. on allpar the specs and building materials used in the 2008+ models seems like a great start to a surprising amount of power. stock and turbocharged or fully built and turbocharged would be awesome.
I feel like the only reason why the l-32 made less power because of the bad cylinder walls the l-32 motor was already going out
The L32 needed better cylinder sealing. Do rings, bearings and a valvejob and retest.
pretty sure the bottom end of the L32 is only better in the sense that it has stronger connecting rods.
I wonder if that cylinder was weak enough to throw off the AFR and change how the other cylinders reacts to timing?
Seems like a basic engine condition difference. We'd see equivalent L67 GTP's perform at wildly different levels on the track and dyno (we called them "factory freaks"). It'd be interesting if you find another one of each to repeat numbers, but I know you dedicated alot of time to 3800's already.
Sometimes it's the small stuff that adds up to this. One cylinder head casting may just not have casting flash in areas another does intake manifolds too. These are mass produced units with many different molds casting heads intakes blower housings.
I did this swap Into my cutlass years ago.
Can you do a Dyno with a Ford 3.8 V6 and a Gm 3.8 V6 would love to see it.
Hello from Australia...we have the l67 in a Holden Commodore.. code named the vs Commodore. 1996 era. It's a l37 na or a l67 SC 3800 rear wheel drive..I'm currently in the process of building a gravel rally car and a butichmen circuit car ...I'm currently trying to decide whether to use the L67. $ 1500 need a real build... well it would for race purposes...or a very hot na v6.. in Australia we call them a Ecotec... GM ...
I sencerly respect your opinions... you make a lot of sense....
As a rally car?? Yes it's heavy but it's very cheap for cars here in Australia.. engines are a sensible price for a l67 ...
Just need a god like person like you to help me with a eng build. I can almost guarantee that this is a winning combination for a rear wheel drive over 3000cc win.
Long time ago I was involved in a vs Commodore v6 build ..na. It was a very quick car in the right hands.
Touqu is the winner in these very under ratted engines...
I'm currently working on building one
Can you do a video explaining the differences between the series one and two engines
I’d like to see a video of the 3800 turbo vs supercharger test. I’m looking to swap a 3800 into my mr2 since I just have one and I’d like to put a turbo on it. I always see supercharged dyno tests but turbo should be able to make more power but I’d like to know how much more.
a turbo makes more at any given boost level than a blower-I have those back to back tests up on a b16a, a 4v mod ford and sbf-tested it many times
I use to love the l67. Until I met the lh2 and lc3 then lm7 then lq4........... I be watching hellboy's build and that makes me want to get another gtp. Then I drive my lady friend's fwd vehicle and be like nah!!!!!!!!!
At that point they seem to be the same?... right? What would be different?
N/A build next 👀???
LOVE IT. 🤠👍🏎
Did you use the same set of heads for both? You mentioned both had L32 heads, but the ones on the L67 were r3conditioned. I’m guessing the set on the L32 were as found in the junk yard. That and a little more wear in the shortblock could be the difference.
both used the exact same set of reconditioned l32 heads
Seemed to make decent power for a 6 cylinder with a factory blower.
Why not just look for a set of Buick 3.8L/G-body or 4th-gen F-body headers, Rich? You know there's many looking to lay their hands on either of these engines for a swap into a RWD or 4WD [S-truck] platform, providing they get a hold of the inlet Holden used to put it in their Monaro CV6!
The older g body 3.8 engine is way different from this series 2 3800. Those won't fit due to the exhaust port spacing. The 3800 f- body headers will fit though.
Will one of these fit in a 1988 Chevy S-10? It has a 3.1 right now.
yes
L32 has powder press rods which are weaker
Oldsmobile 455 PLEASE 🥺
need some sound foam in your recording area. Will help a tooooonnnnn.
can't foam the dyno cell
Will these FWD engines bolt to a RWD small block chevy transmission ?
you can bolt them to a rwd trans (bell housing) from a 3800 Camaro (not a sbc or ls bell housing)
In Australia these only came as a RWD :)
What vehicles does these engines come out of? Supercharged from factory I'm guessing...
Buick park avenue Grand Prix and impala ss
@@Duke9089 Regal GS, Bonneville SSEI
@@92roadie monte carlo, riviera, olds 88, olds 98
What’s the difference between the l67 and the l36 I want to supercharge the l36 in my 2003 monte will the lower intake and supercharger bolt up to my l36? And what else would I need to make this work? Do I need a ecu intercooler etc
Reality garage
Richard I have a 4.2 stroker kit from Mace Engineering in Australia with Hyper pistons. I'd ship it to you to be used for your channel for a video or series of videos if you do the machine shop block work and ship me the short block after your done?
Yea it looks like the l32 was a little hurt
cam timing
Highly doubtful that an l32 would make more. Only different in bottom end I believe is the rod material. And what made the l32 20 more hp was a more "aggressive" tune, better tb, supercharger, and slightly slightly bigger intake valves.
3.8 90° V6 versus 3.8 90° V6?