Atari 5200 Video and Power Mod -- Ditch the Switchbox!
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The Atari 5200 was notorious for its use of an external RF switchbox for its A/V and power connections. Let's look at a mod kit that lets you get rid of it.
Electronic Sentimentalities mod kits: electronicsent...
Sources:
Atari Age 5200 mod installation photo: atariage.com/f...
5200 cartridge adapter photo: atariage.com/f...
Atari 400 computer image: upload.wikimed...
Atari 2600 image: upload.wikimed...
Atari 7800 commercial: • 80's Atari 7800 TV Com...
The wallpaper on my monitor is from / newretroarcade_release...
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Do yourself a favor and get yourself a ts100 soldering iron.
Your iron did not get hot enough.
Also buy a flux pen.
This make it easier with such mods. Good Video!
I can vouch for the TS-100, I love mine!
I concur with flux, I need to get some.. as for this soldering iron i gotta get one myself and give it a go
I undervalued good flux for a long time. It’s magical how much difference it actually makes.
@@nickwallette6201 Yes that's true good flux and solder is essentially for a good job. Don't buy to cheap.
"Quality" isn't the only reason that capacitor lasted so long. There's an untold story seemingly no one wants to talk about which explains why modern electrolytic caps are generally shorter-lived and less-reliable:
RoHS.
Reduction of Hazardous Substances certification isn't just about Pb-free ("lead-free"). It also required capacitors to be reformulated. Eventually every major electronics manufacturer would need to be in compliance so the industry was preparing for this shift in the late '90s.
You've probably heard about the espionage that led to the "capacitor plague" where a Taiwanese plant stole half of a new Japanese formula... without the stabilizer. This led to massive recalls from motherboard makers like Abit and computer makers like IBM. Year-old power supplies were dying left and right. The Taiwanese manufacturer deserves the blame, of course, but they are also kind of a scapegoat because it distracts from two questions few have asked:
Why were major Japanese manufacturers reformulating in the first place after decades of making proven, reliable, long-term stable, electrolytic capacitors?
Why does the reliability of electrolytic capacitors remain worse than it was before even after this has been discovered and corrected?
The answer to both is obviously RoHS.
Now, anyone who has had to recap an old NEC Turbo Express or Duo knows that there were certainly bad capacitors back then with poor long-term reliability, even from Japan. Still, when a relatively new TV or LCD monitor refuses to turn on due to capacitors it's important for us to remember that the notorious devices of yesteryear were likely working fine when they were a similar age.
This is why I don't proactively change capacitors in older devices that have not proven themselves to have poor formulations or some issue possibly related to capacitors. For example, you may want to proactively recap an N64 PSU because many of those are known for failing, but I've yet to ever find a bad cap on an N64 console itself.
The NES is a similar story except the power/RF box is built-in. I've never seen an NES that needed the 3 mainboard caps replaced because Nintendo used quality caps where the ones included in the Alps or Mitsumi RF/Power boxes are garbage. Heck, even though they are leaky garbage they are usually still functional and sure as heck lasted longer than the caps I find inside of PSUs these days.
Moral of the story:
Don't "shotgun" cap replacement on pre-RoHS hardware without a better reason than the assumption that you are increasing the life. Though some low-quality vintage caps could be failing soon or already bad, you could also REDUCE the life by replacing quality vintage caps with their modern RoHS equivalents.
I will say that not everything better is older. Some older things were definitely made better, but some... not so much.
Still, I do think a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" method is a good idea.
And who's to blame for RoHS? The bloody EU
@@dom1310df The EU has some flukes now and then but getting rid of lead and other toxic metals is ultimately a good thing in the long run.
You might be prematurely replacing the caps if they were good, high quality ones. But then - are we really expecting another 15 years out of a late 80s / early 90s cap? If I install high quality modern caps instead, and I get 15 years before they need to be replaced again, is that a net loss?
It’s a judgment call since the expiration date isn’t exactly printed on the cap for you to see, but I’ll take the chance. It’s a good time to get in there and replace fans, clean contacts, remove dust, re-lube mechanical parts, replace belts, and whatever else the thing might need serviced anyway.
@@Nukle0n Not always, of course. The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
The initiative only reduces the hazardous substances used (doesn't eliminate) while drastically increasing over-all e-waste... which puts the remaining substances in the landfill (or worse) threatening groundwater (or worse).
Think about all those XBOX 360 consoles and that wouldn't be in landfills if it weren't for BGA interconnect failures attributed to lead-free solder. The fiasco literally cost Microsoft BILLIONS. Very few would throw away a functional NES or Sega Genesis but I've personally witnessed people throwing away broken XBOX 360 consoles.
This eco-minded initiative is absolutely responsible for a large increase in e-waste.
4:06 -- whoa, you mean that's NOT for storing your rollin rock or whatever other beer you have? Damn you James aka AVGN!!! 😂😂😂
FWIW: I loved my 5200. Yes, the joystick and RF/Power adapter were both problematic, but the games were definitely an upgrade from the 2600 in most cases, and the trackball games in particular were awesome.
Problematic is a huge understatement.
I actually still have one (early gen one when new) I remember asking pops for a 2600 but this came instead for Christmas. (Sweet!) Fun times and fond memories back then. Being an owner or user of these electronics: Atari 5200/2600, Texas instruments ti/994a, Apple 2C/2E/GS, Atari 7800, Sega Master system, etc.. IBM compatibles came in the early 90's for me. Thanks for the video!
We had 2 of the million sold. Loved that system. Had the track ball. Probably 30 games. The controls were a bit complicated haha! Star Raiders. Counter Measure. A few of the games that really stood out.
I love watching these every Friday. This episode I was really struck by the clarity in some of the shots, specifically where you're narrating to the camera. Extra crisp image. Very nice :)
Neil Morrow That stood out for me as well. Some really good quality clear close up shots. Overall, really well done and produced.
It's definitely better to use a P-channel MOSFET for reverse polarity protection, that diode is going to drop way too much voltage and might get really hot on continued use.
Glad I have a 2 port so I don't have to deal with the power mod. Cool video, I've been wanting this mod.
Great video! I don't know how I missed this one. The controller being "hot garbage" got an LOL out of me. I'm going to jump back into 5200 (bought one on ebay last night) after decades. Your mod guide is great and looks easy to follow.
Looks like your soldering iron is not getting hot enough and you don't use soldering paste. Cold iron makes for unsightly points and the paste would have fixed the wire not getting properly tinned.
Rather than bending the legs on the chip you can double stack another socket and bend the pins on that. Also makes soldering easier and less risky, and makes the mod easier to undo.
Re: "won't even work on some modern TVs"... I believe all TV sets sold in the U.S. are still required to have an analog tuner, because some low-power analog TV stations are still on the air (although they're supposedly finally shutting down in 2021), and analog cable TV systems are still in common use in hotels, schools, hospitals, etc.
I just wanted to commend you on the quality, clarity and overall articulation of your videos. I lack your skill and knowledge but I can always follow what you do here. All in all, I like your channel very much! Thank you.
Thank you for this. The instructions for these kits (and a lot of other videos) really gloss over what you're supposed to do with the A/V wiring.
Your use of heat shrink tubing is commendable, but you need more flux in your life. Possibly a slightly hotter soldering iron as well. The suggestion to get a TS-100 is a good one. It's temperature controlled, and it's a lot of tool for the price.
Now we just need a controller mod...
more like other controller :D hahah
ua-cam.com/video/dU6h6jWcMFw/v-deo.html
I watch a lot of retro console modding videos (mostly out of envy), and this is the best video of its kind I've ever seen. Excellent work!
I've worked on a wide assortment of electronics from old Vacuum Tube equipment to Solidstate. When you get down to it it all depends on the application the Cap is used for.
No matter the age a recapping is fine. You have to put into a couple of factors such as ESR and Heat abuse. A leaky Cap isn't always a physical substance leaking from the Cap. Over time a chemical breakdown can accrue and make a Cap act more of a resistor and let DC through a Audio circuit that is meant to block DC and let the AC Audio signal through, that ends up hurting other sections of the circuit. As for electrolytic they can dry out over time also becoming more resistive making other parts over worked and can at times make the Cap leak electrolyte onto the PCB and cause havoc.
You also have to look at other parts such as Resistors. This is more towards the age, heat and storage of the DUT. Old Carbon Comp resistors can drift over time and typically drift very high. Ran into a few in a Fender Guitar Amp that we labeled as 100K and end up around 800K. I've seen some cheap resistors fall below the tolerance percentage from getting over worked in a power supply circuit because they simply got too hot and that was from six Onkyo Sub-woofers that weren't even a year old. Simple fix for that was to increase the wattage from 1/4 to 1 watt.
Now I have seen "quality" parts just die out quickly, all depends on the application, location and some times just a bad batch from the manufacturer. I've seen cheap non-brand parts work better in some cases. My rule of thumb is to use 105*C rated caps and go about 10 to 20% over on the Voltage requirement. So if it had a 1uF cap rated at 85*C at 35Volts I'll toss in a 1uF rated at 105*C at 50Volts. I also agree that the RoHS standard has made things worse but it keeps guys like me still making money.
I still have this with several games, and I was thinking of getting the controls repaired because the buttons are worn out from being pressed so much. Seeing all the electronics repair videos, I think it's a good idea to have the unit itself examined also.
I really enjoyed your video. Just last weekend I put a UAV video board into my 2-port 5200 so I can relate to most of what you showed. I would suggest to others that they avoid soldering directly to the GTIA legs. That’s a custom Atari IC that hasn’t been made since the late 80’s and cannot be replaced by some modern commodity chip. Instead, grab a copy of the 5200 Field Service Manual from AtariMania and trace out those Luma and Sync signal locations to vias, resistors or even the legs fo the 4050 hex buffer chip nearby. If you fry the 4050, modern replacements are about 50 cents each.
OK, someone needs to pass this on to James Rolfe and Mike Matei stat
They are probably well aware of it.....
@@gmcnewlook let's hope so... btw GMC fish bowl buses rule, I love those things
@@adventureoflinkmk2 I love buses that have a two stroke DDs in them
That outside may be ugly but I'm impressed by how little corrosion is on that RF shielding.
Thankfully the console was always kept indoors. What I’m more surprised by is how the foam inserts in the box haven’t crumbled into dust!
Your ground plane on the back is either horrible wave soldering which i dont think was a thing at the time or the ground plane is lifting and you should be so incredibly careful because its very hard to repair if you can actually get someone to sink that much time into trying in the first place.
If they had released the XEGS instead of the 5200, they probably would have had a winner since there was already a huge library of Atari computer games. A built in extra cartridge slot for 2600 games would have also encouraged people to upgrade.
I still have my 5200 from when I was a kid…and I remember the power supplies would blow the internal fuse if you left it plugged in all the time…my dad had to take it to get repaired so many times that they told him why it kept failing, so him knowing us kids, he cut the power supply’s case to accommodate an external fuse holder to facilitate easy fuse changes 😂
I have the same wallpaper on one of my multicade machines! you have great taste in walls my guy.
I’m new to this channel and I haven’t found if you did a video on it or not yet but.. just wanted to let you know I watched the like 7 year old video of backlit modding a Gameboy Advance. Just for an FYI they came out with an ips v2 screen that includes changes to the ribbon which gets rid of some of the screens pixels “dying”. Apparently it was never a screen issue, it was a ribbon issue. Anyway after 2 vids you have definitely earned a sub!
Ohh! Subbed because Awesomeness. Modding is what I love to watch. Cheers
Never got a chance to try an Atari 5200 but i have always been curious about them and have learned some details about them over the years. I still find them interesting but i no longer have any desire to try one let alone buy one.
4:06 That's for controller storage? I thought it was so you could store bottles of beer.
Hi Colin,
The 5200 is one of my favorite consoles, and I love the mod. I have been considering this mod, except that I have a 2 port model that did not have that funky power set up. The mod does seem a bit invasive and I am a bit of a purist.
But, I am really hoping you follow up this video with the controller mod. There is a kit avaliable that replaces the flex circuit and the button pads called the "Gold Dot Conversion" and is reported to be the best fix for the problems for the buttons. There is also supposed to be a "self centering" kit to fix the joystick as well, however that problem has never bothered me, but seems to bother everyone else.
Finally, if you want to do a proper review, I have a ton of games and a Trak Ball, which is in my opinion, the best reason for owning a 5200 in the first place. By the way, a Trak Ball is worth a video on its own. They are a lot of fun to crack open, and perform a little maintainance on. They are very robust, and shine where the joysticks fail. If you pick one up from the wild, I recommend disassembly, clean the ball with a magic eraser, use a little light machine oil on the bearings. LESS IS MORE! Finally clean the button contacts. The fire buttons usually take a pounding and they are worth putting the extra care into. Enjoy!
Definitely go forward with the mod. I too am a 5200 super fan and own the full set of 69 licensed games. I own multiple 5200s but I use my modded 5200 as my daily driver. Also as far as controllers go. I only use a masterplay clone for analog games and I use a brand new controller for digital. I’ll include the link here to the new controller that just came out. www.maker-matrix.com
I'll never do this, but I love that someone is doing it.
I'm not sure why the pins of the GTIA need to be bent outwards to do this mod?
The 74HC4050 chip is a hex buffer chip, so I think it would still work fine to leave the GTIA pins plugged into the main board, then just solder the wires to the "tops" of the chip legs.
Bending the pins out risks breaking them unnecessarily, and AFAIK, it's not a chip that's easily bought off-the-shelf any more.
Could do with a slightly larger value cap to replace the big cap, too.
I mean, the original cap was probably OK anyway if it's not leaking, but replacing it with a similar value can't hurt.
(and the same voltage rating or higher.)
The small cap across the DC input also won't hurt, but it won't be doing a huge amount to help lower the noise in the position it's in. This vid explains why the larger "bulk" capacitance is usually placed near the power input, while the smaller decoupling caps closer to the chips...
ua-cam.com/video/1xicZF9glH0/v-deo.html
The voltage drop of the diode shouldn't be a problem on something like this, because the console uses a PSU rated at 11.5 Volts (and is unregulated anyway), with a 7805 voltage reg. So there should be plenty of voltage difference between the PSU output and the regulator input to allow it to work.
The diode for reverse-polarity is a VERY good addition, IMO, and could help save a lot of retro systems from damage.
The Atari Jaguar is a good example, as I've seen lots of those where the switching regulator chip has popped when the wrong PSU was accidentally plugged in.
I'm going to have to dissent from this(I understand that you didn't have the switch box)....the BEST quality you will play your 5200 on is a crt television through the switch box...and don't worry about the switch box...just make sure the power adapter is plugged into the switch box before you plug the power adapter into the wall(common sense). Don't hack up your beautiful 4 port 5200. Just get an old tv to see how it was meant to be played.
This is oddly the second channel I follow that put out a vid this week doing this mod ....hmmm
Superb video :) you can shake hands with 8bit Guy and Techmoan :) greetings from Poland :)
why not keep RF and in parallel establish S-Video and Composite? There is no need to drill something, there is a big whole at the bottom of the chassis allowing any kind of cable or simple use a replacement top for the expansion slot. bending custom chip pins is a no-go, too
0:50 I love that "game" in the background, but you loose points for not having the omnibot roaming around back there.
My school used lead-free solder and non-adjustable soldering irons... I'm wondering if they used copper-clad aluminium wires too - certainly they were all stranded instead of solid! I had thought I was really bad at soldering until I got my own equipment, haha.
I think if people are interested in the 5200 at all, the thing to do is to find an Atari 800, 800XL, 65XE, or 130XE. It plays most of the games that the 5200 did, plus a lot more, and uses normal joysticks.
Very nice mod. I also dont like to mod the original look of consoles if i can avoid it but you made this look very stock even thoughtful it is not. Nice work Colin whats your favorite console to mod?
Need something like this but for the 7800 power. I can't find any substitute to the original, which is old and expensive...
U can buy composite upgrade kits on eBay for 10 bux. I've upgraded 2 7800s so far. Very easy.
Missed the power, nevermind, no idea how to change the power. Sorry!
@@cthulhuhasrisen1009 still good to know, I'll probably need to install one of those too
Contrary to popular belief, it is not proprietary. I have spent a ton of time looking and still can't tell you what it's called but I have found a few things that used the same connector type. I also helped Console5 stock them. :)
They are used in:
late '70s/early '80s Texas Instruments calculators
Shark "Euro Pro" battery-operated vacuum cleaners
Brinkmann Max Million portable spotlight chargers for the removable battery (NOT the one that power through the spotlight itself!)
A locking variant that fits on the Dish Network "Joey"
Unfortunately the specs and polarity don't match so you'll have to cut them up and make your own PSU like I did. Console5 ended up stocking 500 from an eBay seller that was about to throw away the Brinkmann plugs after Brinkmann went under. I pointed it out to Luke (Console5) literally the day before the seller was going to destroy them. Crisis: Averted! If you don't already have some of these plugs around (I had several), get your pigtails from Luke. :)
Love what you have done here.
I was wondering if you would consider doing one of these for someone willing to pay for your time. Thanks for your consideration. Nick
0:32 cat spotted :3
3:38 Looks like not much flux in your solder. I like to use extra flux paste when things don't flow well
I have a 2600 and a Top Loader NES that have trouble displaying the image. I meant to fix them but life happened and haven't touched them in years. I should really go back and see what I can do. I miss fiddling with old electronics and soldering stuff.
I really like this system. At least, I really want to like this system. Overall, the games are solid, and look fantastic. That joystick is just murder though. Great video. Incidentally, I just did a quick review on the system for collectors on my channel. This mod looks really simple, and I may have to consider it...unless I can mod my Atari 400 or 800 computers to do the same thing. Boy, that would be great...and would easily give me a great reason to build that library.
3:03 damn that wire is beautiful.
If your looking for someone to fix your 5200 joysticks look on the bay, there's a store called Atari 5200 controller cleaning and repair service. he does excellent work.
Great video and work! Have you heard about the new 5200 controller that’s kind of shaped like a 360 controller? It has a self-centering analog joystick and a keypad in the center. I don’t own a 5200, but I’ve seen videos of this new controller and it looks like it’s pretty high quality. I can’t remember the name of it though.
It's the Maker Matrix controller. I have a review of it on my channel: ua-cam.com/video/klmlm05bufo/v-deo.html
Actually, the 5200 is a stripped down Atari 400 and its games will run on Atari 8-bit computers with FixXL (public domain OS Translator) and a patch to the game input machine code. Actually, it should be possible to patch regular Atari computer games to run on the 5200. I REALLY want to see someone make a patch ribbon cable for the 2600 adapter and make it work on an 800XL. 😉
0:32 aww cute cat
Waiting for someone to mod a 5200 for HDMI.
Why not use a socket for the gtia and bending the socket's pins instead. That way the mod could be undone or the chip reused without danger of breaking the pins.
I think your soldering iron temperature settings are to low :)
Awesome ! Now, can you do my 5200 system ??
Great video, I'm kinda curious though if you know whether the Composite out would be fine going through an adapter for Scart?
Should be , but nothing is known for sure until its tested. I was thinking Svideo to Hdmi for myself
Hi Colin! Have you messed around with any of the new GBA mods yet like the IPS screens that are becoming very popular? They are a step up above the GBA AGS-101 screens and I'm curious to see what you think of them :). Greetings from The Netherlands!
Not on the GBA specifically, but I’ve done a few episodes about those IPS displays on the Game Boy Color. I’d expect similar results.
WoW every IC is socketed :) cool!
Do a 2600 next Colin
I'm curious to know when you ordered your kit? Far as I know the owner of the site hasn't been operating since early last fall when a few orders were fulfilled but nothing since then? You can also get a UAV board for use in the 5200. I actually prefer this one you did as I think the s-video and composite image especially are better than that of the UAV in a 5200. But the UAV is more easy to obtain for roughly the same cost.
I’ve actually had the kit on hand for several years now and finally rediscovered it. The seller did take some time off a few years ago for personal reasons, but as far as I can tell they’re still active.
@@ThisDoesNotCompute They appear to be, yes, but I've heard from many that their orders haven't arrived and I think in some cases were refunded on their payments. So again it would be nice to get a confirmation if ElectronicSentinmentatlies is still actively in business.
@@IvoryTowerCollections I placed an order for a 7800 AV mod before Christmas 2019 and have yet to receive it. I don't think anyone is monitoring orders or email (I've reached out to the contact address asking for an update three times now).
Man if you gave this to AVGN he would be impressed, probably still shit on the console itself but the mod would relive him of some anger lol and yeah that slot at 4:06 is suppose to hold beer I thought lol
so, Nintendo 64 was NOT the first console featuring 4 controller ports...
Super Ultra Awesome
Amazing
Does that work with the two Port model
Good job.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Years ago I acquired an old school Atari 400/800 computer. Is there a way to convert its video out? I haven't even been able to test it. Don't have an old monitor or TV.
twisted pairs are the best!
Do you have an updated supply webpage? This one isn't working
I'm glad you ditched the switchbox. No need to get nostalgic about something unnecessary.
But isn't that make the first edition of Atari 5200 like "Collector's Edition"?
Jeesh - at least zip-tie and secure the wires. Don't forget to replace all the big green film caps with TDK 0.22uF 100V 20%. Lifetime of 200,000 hours or 100 years. Plus they are smaller and just look cool.
I ended up with a free 2 port unit today that is in exceptionally good shape overall, but is (naturally) missing the same unit as yours. After watching your video, I'm now wondering if it's possible to solder this mod board to a multiport intended for a front loading NES.
store.retrofixes.com/collections/kits-parts-accessories/products/nes-frontloader-custom-multiport
I've always found those old Nintendo ports to be more attractive than individual RCA jacks, but I'm completely unsure if this would be remotely compatible, haha
The controllers were the first to go bad as the buttons eventually wouldn't make contact
Man mine is all messed up. At 1:53, right under the orange thing sticking up, my 5200 board has multiple jumpers and all sorts of extra wires and transistors soldered in. Im really disappointed as I think this one is dead. Anyone seen anythign like that before?
What about the horrible controllers?!
"Turns out the leads I were using" 3:12 .... Subject Verb Disagreement
Your Awesome
I wouldn't have used an Ethernet cable for analog video if I was you. They're not designed to handle the same kinds of interference.
Have u tried to add a hdmi port ?
Does the 5200 suport rgb?
9:29 Ryukahr reference
Hot garbage controller for sure, but at least it isn't an Intellivision controller. 🤮
At least the intellivision controllers are functional.
12+ years on my modded gold Best Electronics 5200 joystick. Love the 5200 controller.
AND.....There are out of stock...damm it
Honestly if you want an Atari 5200 experience without the trash controllers and crap video output just get yourself an Atari 800XL.
Questionable soldering technique
This Does Not Compute
Yeah, the 5200's graphics only seem to be a bump up from the 2600's, not very dramatic because people were so good at doing things on the 2600. Buck Rogers, Pole Position, Gyruss, Star Wars Arcade, and Zaxxon seem like they stand out as games that the 2600 couldn't do. But then, you never know which games are the ones to buy, so 5 games compared to the 2600's library is pretty small. Most other games feel like games that could be done on the 2600. Sometimes the graphics didn't even that big of an upgrade
That RF adapter though looks sketchy. Even if I owned an Atari 5200 and had good memories about it, I wouldn't miss how the RF adapter works. Supplying DC power over coax is actually not uncommon, especially when you are dealing with antennas. However, I still don't like to do it.
I was thinking RF might have been used for the flickering afterglow effect (increasing sprites in the 2600), but nope, it's more of an effect on the CRT. Some systems did take advantage of TV/monitor effects like that
Yeah that console has had a really crappy release, i understand the one cable, but it's not the best
Comment for that sweet sweet algorithm nudging.
The Atari 5200 was a commercial failure. None of this is gonna make it better 🤣
okay now fix the joystick lmao
Actually, even back in the day RF sucked.
flux flux flux!
I have one I got for free and I still don't think it's worth doing the mod... and the controllers are pure garbage. Lol
Center positive? Why though :P Every, EVERY single retro console uses 9v with minus in the center so you just made it more confusing.
bridge rectifier would make that irrelevant
I believe the original power supply for the 5200 was center-positive; this way you could use the same power adapter that came with the system for the modded version.