I agree with many others, I don't think they NEED to stick to a specific gameplay style. If they did, we wouldn't have had the combat masterpiece that FFVII rebirth (more so than remake) that we did. They are not afraid to test things out and I applaud them for it. Some fail, some succeed, that's part of life. However, if they do decide to focus on a specific system, I do hope it's the FFVII rebirth one, but this only applies to the actual combat, I hope they continue to experiment other systems for the weapons, spells, skills and all that, keep it fun and fresh.
FFXV released on literally everything when it came out in 2016. Makes sense that its sales were great (aside from it actually being a great game). XVI was actually really good as well, but I think its problem was its exclusivity. The last time SE made a turn based Final Fantasy, nobody bought it, and it's actually one of the most underrated games in the franchise (World of Final Fantasy).
I think the game did not sell well bcus of the lame and cringe dialogue.. I cannot stand lahn or their interactions that seemed forced in every possible way. Terrible story and terrible dialogue , I've tried replaying it also, I will never beat it
XV released only on PS4 and Xbox one when it came out and over 80% of its sales were on PlayStation. It wasn’t on PC. So yeah exclusivity isn’t the main issue with the franchise at the moment
I don’t get why Final Fantasy HAS to have ONE consistent type of gameplay in order for it to not be in an “identity crisis”. To its core, Final Fantasy is a FANTASY STORY experienced through a video game. The way in which you play that fantasy story, whether it’s through turn based combat or real time shouldn’t matter because the game has ALWAYS marketed itself as a FANTASY story experienced through a video game. Also, if Square really was going through a crisis, wouldn’t it show within the gameplay? I mean, the FF7R trilogy and FF16 seem to have known EXACTLY what they were going to be gameplay AND story wise. Wouldn’t it have been less consistent if they were really going through a crisis?
Agreed. When people talk about the older games they always talk about the story. Nobody, except for overweight boomers, and I mean nobody ever talk about the combat. The story and setting was always most important.
You raise a great point, but what’s baffling is that FF still has great stories and characters, but for whatever reason something isn’t clicking with the wider audience.
If it's not selling, then yes, there is a crisis. FF16 might be a good game on its own but it's not a good Final Fantasy game. The lack of a playable party with unique controllable characters is just not Final Fantasy. You can have different stories and different worlds but Final Fantasy has to get back to its core values
@@REDEEMERWOLFif Final Fantasy is only about the story and setting, then why is it that all Sakaguchi FF games had a core identity, which far exceeded story or combat, or any individual elements, but still felt very true and in-tune to its nature with each iteration? One example is that FF avoided sequels like the plague because Sakaguchi hates sequels. It's not as simple as pointing out individual game systems. What makes FF, well, FF is much more complex and nuanced.
Square is honestly trying a bit too hard to match trends in my opinion. Ever since FFX, they have been trying out different combat/gameplay systems, in order to adapt to the marketplace. I understand why they won’t go back to turned based, because obviously action RPG are the “meta” right now. But taking a gamble at new things to see if they work, doesn’t always help. FFXVI is a good game, but in my eyes it took away several things that I enjoyed from Final Fantasy, especially the strategic and RPG elements. I feel like Square needs to stop taking gambles and try to innovate what they have already. The FFVII Remake/Rebirth is in my opinion, their best take on real time action combat. It has strategy and real time gameplay in one. It does not hurt to reuse this system for FFXVII and beyond.
Are they really “trying a bit too hard to match trends,” or just experimenting with different gameplay styles that you and others don’t like or won’t even give a chance? FFXVI was an action game because the devs said they like action games and wanted to see if they could make one, not to chase a trend. The problem with this fanbase is that they do not want the series to expand or try something new, and everytime they do the fanbase shits on the game for “not being an FF,” and shitting on it for trying something different. This is the type of bad negative pressure/criticism that is going to pressure the company into making every new FF game boring and the same due to fan backlash. Even Sakaguchi said that the problem with the franchise is that they are shackled by the fanbase’s rigidity of what they perceive an FF game to be. If every game played like FF7R, FF7R would stop feeling unique and becoming boring and played out. But I guess be careful what you wish for. I don’t want this franchise to become formulaic and boring but for some reason I guess a lot of people in this franchise want it to be because they’re terrified of change.
Why are you still crying about 16? They made a character focused action game. Get over it. Are you a child? Are you a cat? Are you incapable of accepting change? You have such a childish and backwards mentality in that you want things to stay the same and hate anything remotely different. God you are insufferable.
@@Erikthedood Not exactly because you could always play God of War or Elders Scroll if you want action games, there should always games for Turn based
I feel like in Remake/Rebirth they have stumbled on a really unique hybrid combat system. I would like to see them adapt it to a new mainline game that isn't linked to any existing stories. I also agree Square will be continuing down this action based route as they have specifically hired people from Capcom to develop these combat systems.
I liked 12 and finished it. But running around like an mmorpg, pre-planning fights and then stopping and filling the screen with lines was definatly weird at the time.
@@adriandenton6637 FF12 was weird but it was better than anything that has come out since. A combat system with actual depth, big open worlds to explore that weren't cut off halfway through the game.
Agree that Square Enix can copy partially from their own games. The FF game after FF7R Part 3 can be a combo of parts from multiple FF games. Many want Gambit system to better strategize other secondary characters while main character can be directly controlled. Some ppl don't like button smashing just to build up one turn / move slot for special moves. Maybe back to FFX's system of wait for filling ur turn gauge to do perform any move. FF13 Lightning Return's had 3 diff "characters" filling up gauges at the same time. Although the wait was there, gauge filling was fast enough that pretty quickly player had to look ahead incoming moves performable, so wasn't boring long wait without button smashing attacks. Maybe allow to queue up diff types of attacks from multiple characters into one single list of attacks; and diff characters' moves in some sequence can be team attack.
I’m very sorry, but even as a ff13 series Fan I heavily disagree that the third one has the best combat system at least on a personal level. It was the only game in the series I actively struggled to play. Having moves tied to costume pieces really didn’t gel well with me at all. Not to mention all the moves being tied to all sorts of buttons (I played it on PC). It genuinely felt like a mess to be honest, but it might just be my personal taste of not liking that kind of… character building? I dunno. I will admit that the ATB system where the player has seperate bars for each set was pretty interesting, especially since they can recharge at different rates. I liked that. But that’s honestly the only real compliment I can give it.
Very accurate observations. I also wanted to add that the former president of SE openly spoke about NFTs and was a proponent of services. During that period, information began to surface about Sony’s ambitions to release 12 games based on the service model. What’s even more interesting, Square Enix has experience in service-based games for mobile platforms since the early 2000s. This also shows us the direction Square Enix may partially be heading with the changes introduced to their key franchises.
I think it would actually be smart if the next main FF entry were a "back-to-the-basics", returning to the old fashioned Turn-Based combat with a customizable party of four, utilizing the Job system and so on. I do think FF should stick with the "Urban Fantasy" aesthetic from FFXV, as it feels very iconic for the brand, it would be a waste to just throw that concept away but instead expand on it.
I'm not sure what I think about gameplay style as I really don't mind the changes over the years, though I guess I'd rather personally it more closely resemble the gameplay styles of the first 10 games (which did vary heavily themselves tbf). But I totally agree about the urban fantasy thing. In some form or another, this has been the iconic look for the franchise since 7. 7 still had some medieval fantasy towns and was (like 6) more of a steampunk/modern take on classic fantasy settings. Whereas 15 is much more straight up modern+fantasy. But it does have a lot of that classic dna with the royal familys and the kingdoms, the crystals etc. I think keeping that connection to the first 5 games whilst also retaining the more modern elements design wise is a must for the overall franchise at this point.
They're gonna need to put less money into the next game in the series too then. Cause what you're saying will only attract older fans and ppl in general who are already fans
The issue is the best games had great characters (in particular a diverse party) and great worldbuilding and at their peak a great villain. XVI had great worldbuilding but characters were a weak point imo, they needed a larger diverse party that bounce off one another. XV lacked worldbuilding and the characters weren’t diverse. XIII had the parts you’d usually need but over complicated its concepts. XII felt more like a tactics/vagrant story game because it was, it lacked emotional highs with its characters.
You can't do it like that, people's minds have changed, patience has changed, I was a turn based lover I didn't get bored of spending minutes deciding what I want to do and see my character attack slowly and enemy attack slowly but today I just can't and get bored. You can return to the style but you have to make it more dynamic like clair obscur for example or else people are just gonna drop the game
Everyone misses the main point of why Square - Enix is struggling. And that answer is the Japanese marketplace. Switch is king and currently runs it unchallenged. PS4 had less than 10 million LIFETIME sales in Japan. And when 1 market makes up 50% of your sales traditionally and you don't release on said market's choice console... Well you shouldn't be shocked with the results. They need to make Japanese games for a Japanese audience. Scale back development to between AA and AAA with the Switch 2 in mind (ports for other platforms). That's the ticket to success. PC and Xbox isn't going to make these things smash hits. FF16's PC steam count over the weekend was only 27,000....Even with a day one release with all the hype that likely translates to under 1 million.
None of this imo. They simply need to make great games more consistently and then port their titles to PC. FF7RIBIRTH was the first major correct hit in the FF franchise in a decade. They don't need to aim for lower end hardware for FF. Though more switch titles would be welcomed like they did with the crisis core.
The Japanese audience is moving away from consoles on general. It has less to to do with PS and more to do with portability. Switch and Mobile are king in Japan because of their portability.
FF16 as a game is such a dumbed down RPG, it’s more like an arcade game. YoshiP has no clue how to do stats, leveling system and itemisation, everything was simplified garbage
Make class job Mage --> turn base charge magic with wall protect monster Hero-->full action Red mage --> alittle bit of action and turn base You can switch between fight
The truth is, after Sakaguchi left, the series has lost its core identity and with every new director coming in, you get a brand new vision. Only Sakaguchi can make a Sakaguchi game. What they could at least try, should be to have the same director and team for FFXVII instead of changing everything up again.
Ignorance. These last couple games are some of the greatest in the franchise. Console exclusivity in general and in the midst of a console shortage, killed sales. This “identity crisis” narrative is ridiculous.
I don't agree that only old school fans are buying FF games. I'm gen Z. I was born the same year FF7 was released. I didn't grow up with the "golden age" FF games, and I have no nostalgia for them. The game I have childhood nostalgia for, is, funnily enough... FF13. There are things I like and dislike about each of the modern FF games, but they are what I first and foremost associate with the FF brand. And I know for a fact that there are more of us.
@@alanlee67 I mean that just straight up isn't true. Plenty of people ARE buying modern FF games. It's just that not ENOUGH people are buying them to make up for SE's other flops.
@@Mungdaal304 If you were born before me you are not gen Z. I was born 1997. Millenials stretch between 1981 and 1996. Gen Z starts at 1997. Also obviously my experience isn't going to apply to every Gen Z person out there. It will very much depend on which games we were first introduced to, and when we were introduced to them. But I had no one around me that was into FF, so my first FF game at the time was the most recent title that had come out. I'm just saying that there are some of us that do primarily associate the newer games with FF, and not the old ones.
I disagree with the "FFXVI trying to please everyone" discourse, it definitely and unequivocally tried to alienate non-action fans. Otherwise they wouldn't have blatantly gotten rid of 90% of the RPG mechanics found in the previous games. Personally, I like action based mechanics. I've been playing more Fromsoft or action oriented Hoyoverse games than anything turn based in recent years because of that. But I just didn't like how FFXVI got rid of the other party members or how they allow you to use fire against a fire bomb, they really didn't have to do that. In fact they removed them because they didn't "want to please everyone", they wanted it to be an action game through and through and exclusively marketed toward action game fans. The alienation was as deliberate as it could be. FF-Type 0, wasn't as much of an action game but at least it had party members and an actual elemental system. And to be fair, I personally think FFVIIR is the game that tried to please everyone but still kind of failed in that regard. It certainly did please the part of me that like to use other party members and pick an option in a menu, but it certainly didn't please the part of me that likes to dodge and parry (which, let's be honest, were horrible and borderline useless in FF7R). And not sure if anyone who remotely likes more reaction based mechanics really enjoyed the real time action elements in FF7R. And I'm not saying FF7R is a bad game, I'm just saying it's not very good as an action game. In fact, it's not an action game at all, as in "it's not even a proper ARPG". It's a turn based game with a very thin and superficial layer of action elements put on top, which I think is why quite a few turn based fans seem to praise it. But to me, it's barely different from the FFXIII series. It's still fairly better than FFXV's base mechanics though.
I believe Final Fantasy is whatever the developers want it to be. Fans will complain, but that’s the simple truth. The issue in my view is the series’ relevancy has waned and Square’s memetic “didn’t meet expectations” response when it does a bad business continues to hold true over a decade later. Years-long hype, pandemic lockdowns, and PS4’s install base benefitted Remake, offsetting its exclusive status. 16 and Rebirth had none of those factors and they underperformed because of it.
Fantasian is gon come out soon and it's made by "true" fans most fave director, sakaguchi. I'm willing to bet that it's not gon touch final fantasy number. This whole tb combat argument is stupid
every anthology series has this so called "identity crisis", let's take the most popular anthology series and probably the most popular game series of all time call of duty at its prime (2007-2014+2005 since cod2 was the game that put cod on the radar) advanced warfare was a futuristic game about warmongering corporations, black ops 1-2 were essentially spy thrillers, world at war is probably one of the most visceral ww2 games ever, cod 1-3 were saving private ryan-esque ww2 stories, the original modern warfare was a game about modern conflict that tried to emulate tactical shooters while its two sequels are michael bay movies, black ops 3 was their attempt to make a deus ex game and we don't talk about ghosts gameplay similarities aside all those games are vastly different in themes and presentation yet that's what kept people playing "the same game every year", it was the fact that when you play the campaign they weren't the same game every year. some of these games are in the same subseries and are vastly different, namely the world at war->black ops 4 subseries, it starts off with probably one of the most gritty games in the series, becomes a cold war spy thriller wrapped in a revenge plot, then has a sequel that carries the same themes, then the 4th game goes into posthumanism (and fails admittedly) then the 4th game does whatever to justify a multiplayer only game. modern warfare doesn't change that much but it cranks everything to 11 in mw2 and 3, advanced warfare does its own thing. yet all of them are call of duty, all of them share the gunplay and progression that made call of duty popular and since cod4 all of them share streaks. even in single player all of them share the same formula of an npc guiding you throughout the mission a couple of gimmick missions to break up the pace, qtes that involve near death situations and slow motion breaching sequences. but all of them differ. between ffxvi, ff7 rebirth and ffxv, all of them share flashy combat, characters doing crazy acrobatics, the same roster of summons, the themes about defying fate, a love story, a party (even if you only play as clive in 16, you still have a party most of the time), magic...
As many others seem to agree, I think 7R's combat system absolutely nails it. I want them to continue with that as a foundation while tweaking, evolving, and putting new twists on it going forward, just like the older FF's used to do.
It's been stated a million times already, final fantasy is what the director/dev team interprets it at that time. That's is greatest strength. If it just did the same thing over and over again with slight variations then everyone would complain It's just japanese call of duty or something.
Honestly think just rebranding may be a good idea ! At least have a game specific title ... i have met at least 5 people in my life who havent/or hadnt touched a ff game cuz they thought they needed to know history from previous games ! You get big numbers like 16 now which just sounds intimidating
I personally feel Final Fantasy should have lean more into a more evolved form Final Fantasy VII Remake Trilogy gameplay while being set in high fantasy aetherpunk settings. Final Fantasy is conglomeration of high fantasy, magic, and technology so why not have aetherpunk settings be the default. Aetherpunk can go into steampunk and medieval settings dependent on what sort of worlds they want to develop. Using the gameplay of Final Fantasy VII Remake Trilogy ensures keeping true to it's rpg roots while still satisfying both turn based and action based fans. I would also incorporate aspects of Kingdom Hearts gameplay so we can have better air combat and platforming in their games.
@@spyrochrisgaming I haven't seeing as how my first Final Fantasy was X. Then it was VII, VIII, XII, Type 0, XV, VII Remake Trilogy, Strangers of Paradise, Crisis Core Reunion, and XVI. Also wouldn't worlds with technological enemies like Omega and having airships in high fantasy magical worlds be considered Aetherpunk.
I don't think it's an "identity crisis" it suffers from at least in the sense of Square itself. The big thing with all Final Fantasy games is the creative leads have a vision for what they want to create, they pitch the idea, and then development begins and ultimately its just a matter of if this game will succeed or not. Every Final Fantasy has been met with some polarized opinion and I think that's just because the fan base itself is so wildly varied in their idea of what makes the identity of a 'Final Fantasy' game. And that's more so where this idea of an Identity Crisis comes from. Like if you took 50 comments asking what someone's favorite Final Fantasy title is. What makes a Final Fantasy game live up to its namesake and even other minor things like Favorite Characters, Favorite Music, etc. You will see just how diverse the opinions tend to be.
It's also the main appeal of final fantasy. Idk why ppl are so obsessed with sale number. FF9, the highest rated FF had the lowest sale number (for post FF7). All this doom and gloom until you realize Final fantasy still makes any other jrpg sale number looks like a joke.
I don’t think it has to be turn based, but it certainly can be. I think the 7R games are better for being what they are than they would be if they were turn based. An FF9 game absolutely makes sense to be turn based. I think it depends on what fits for that game. I think the bigger thing is that with the cost of creating these games they can’t afford to do one offs anymore. Look at how much the scope and quality increased with Rebirth from Remake. I have to imagine a sequel to FF16 would be much better as well given that they could build off of a solid starting point. If I were them I would keep mainline games spread out but do sequels to each. Maybe even a “Miles Morales” type game for $30. Give me a $30 Cissnei or Rufus adventure haha
I think the identity crisis thing is overblown. 16 is very close in tone and content to the Ivalice games and 14, while the action gameplay that everyone pretends is new, hasn't been new for 2 decades and unlike 15 is actually good. Sakaguchi wanted every FF game to be radically different from the previous one. Being different is what defines FF. Its an anthology series full of new ideas. There are very few mechanical mainstays in the series, even ATB took a break in FF10 before coming back in FF12 as a real time with pause system. The only thing holding FF back is the PS5 exclusivity and people are coming with all sorts of cope to avoid looking at the elephant in the room, which is that the Sony exclusivity deal has been toxic to the franchise.
One of the reasons I love Final Fantasy is the characters and the way they interact with each other and the story. They feel alive. I liked Remake for this reason. The other new games are really lacking on this front so I have no interest in playing them.
Somehow they lost me when party members became autonomous and you had to choose between "aggressive", defensive and neutral auto modes. Taking away control and strategic thinking and exchange it for dmc action button mashing. As long as true ai isn't out I don't fully trust my party. And this makes such rpgs not really as enjoyable for me anymore.
Now, this is just my opinion.... But, I believe that the "identity crises" that Final Fantasy has been experiencing for about 2 decades now started with the departure of Hamaguchi and then Kitase (with Nomura as a large figure head) taking the lead. Has Kitase and his team made good Final Fantasy games? Yeah, sure, of course they have. But, I would argue that without Hamaguchi being a part of them, the Final Fantasy games have slowly but surely drifted further and further away from their initial identity.
As someone who came into the ff franchise with ff7 remake and who loved ff16 and its combat, i hope they keep the more action favored combat. Honestly, hearing that for the ff9 remake, theyll be going back to turn based kinda bums me out. Guess its just a difference in generations
Or maybe people don't want every game to be an action game. Go tell bluegrass fans you're changing they're genre to some mid grade rap and see if they want to listen to it. Unless they already like shitty rappers for some reason.
Bro FF14 is more of a Final Fantasy than an MMO right now. They integrated more single player aspect in the Main Story quest where you can now play the game without interacting with any other players. You should give it a try if you're looking for a fresh perspective for the Final Fantasy franchise. It worked for me hopefully it can re-ignite the spark with the franchise for you. Plus the story is arguably one of the best Square had released across all the games.
What I want would be helped by going back to turn based combat... it's not the turn based combat I'm actually after, but what I'm after is magic that isn't just pew pew bolts and beams. The magic should feel like more than just a projectile with an element. Waterga should be drowning people, not just shooting a bigger ball of water. Part of what I've not loved about the Final Fantasy move to new engines and real-time combat is that they just sort of... did what the engine already supported in terms of magic. There's zero creativity in throwing a ball of fire, every game since the 1980s had that... the cool think about AOE magic is... well, it looks freakin awesome. I kind of think they took the wrong message from the first iteration of 15 (I didn't play later iterations because the day 1 version was pretty awful and incomplete), they kind of stumbled with AOE magic because in the real time fighting, you'd cook your own people, because the AI wasn't smart enough to not run directly into the fire. Instead of working to make it right, they gave rings that made your people invulnerable to it, then just kind of ditched AOE magic for pew pews and beams in FF16, and to a large extent, in FF7/FF7R. I'm fine with them trying new things, but the magic, which was the main reason I loved the series, has just gotten dull AF and is now like literally every other mediocre game out there. The other thing is just pacing... FF16 had a ton of cookie cutter sidequests that weren't super rewarding in an emotional investment sense, and just felt like filler.
Ff7re already solved the rpg/action compromise. Regarding wait times, they need 2 studios working on mainline titles..when one comes out, the next should be well on it's way.
(I haven't watched the video yet, apologies.) I think one of the biggest factors influencing FFs "decline" is the long wait in between mainline games. And this isn't just a problem unique to FF, but a AAA gaming problem in general. Game development times have ballooned out of control. During the "golden age of FF", if someone didn't enjoy the latest game (let's say they loved 7, but didn't like 8) the next FF game was right around the corner, and they could be excited for that. And then if they still didn't like 9 for whatever reason, then 10 was also around the corner. But now, let's say someone didn't like 15. It would be 7 years for their next "chance" to enjoy FF again. Of course there are still spinoffs coming out (Strangers of Paradise) but I'm talking about the mainline series. Each game having a unique vibe and different gameplay wouldn't be so bad if there was a fast turnaround in between games. But because each mainline entry has been pretty divisive since 12, combined with them taking 5 years (give or take) to come out has killed FFs momentum and growth. They really need to let go of graphics because they don't sell games as much anymore, (even though FF16 was still very enjoyable to me, and I admit the spectacle of the Eikon fights were amazing) and focus on getting new games out faster. Going 5-7 years in between games has been horrible for the series. I know this is easer said than done of course. It also doesn't help that one of their main development teams is locked away on the third FF7 remake game. I can't wait until they're freed to do something new. Don't get me wrong, I think Remake and Rebirth are very well made games on a technical level, Rebirth especially, but I think spreading FF7 into three games over the course of a decade is spreading the material too thin and it just feels like such an overindulgent/bloated project. I wish it had just been 2 games instead of 3 imo. (But that's a different discussion lol.)
I must admit when FF16 was announced I was hoping it would have the FF7 Remake combat system rather than a completely new one. Having played 16 I really felt it was a game that really understood what Final Fantasy was aside from the actual gameplay side. I think the 7 Remake style could have worked given you have characters like Jill, Cid and Torghal fighting alongside you but then the part where you are absorbing their powers along the way probably wouldn't have worked and the story is written with that gameplay in mind. I suppose the huge epic scale boss fights were awesome and the game I feel resonates with adult players more than younger ones because it shows a guy who was an optimistic youth have his future snuffed out but shows that you can fight to regain it and that its never too late to do so.
Let’s get an Ivalice based final fantasy mainline game. Add elements from balders gate 3 because that’s the most successful turn based rpg ever made, and from the grand father of all RPGs dungeons and dragons. Perhaps let people create there main character and go back to turn based combat but make it in depth with a job system like final fantasy tactics and final fantasy tactics advance.. I think this could win the series back with a great presentation, clean and well animated combat and a well executed story that may have branching options. Possibly bring back a world map with the possibility of customization Of an airship for your party. Make your companion characters original, memorable and dynamic! It can happen but they need the vision. I would add that in context to the game I think using an airship for your party like the camping mechanic in balders gate 3 it would allow for further dialogue between characters and options of customization for their abilities, armor, weapons and overall skill sets while allowing you to cook and have different story elements. A more refined take than final fantasy 15 with more in-depth character development. Also why the need for an airship would be the best possible way of travel because you can create open Hub zones that are explorable but allow different biomes and creatures, enemies, items, cultures, and story elements. Hub zones should be fairly large, densely packed with different interactions, locations, cities, towns, villages, or forts, camps, castles, dungeons, ruins, and caves. Chance encounters with optional bosses, creatures, enemies, and day night cycles that mix up the gameplay and story elements. Add optional chance encounters with special hub zone specific characters, factions and groups. The possibilities of quest become varied and you can treasure hunt and dungeon crawl. With the layered hub zones add replay value by having different outcomes, and different ways to approach it. Perhaps some encounters can be avoided, or some peaceful interactions can become violent through dialogue. Also add layers to puzzles within the environments themselves like disco Elysium, balders gate 3 and add hidden places like Elden ring or varied options to get to certain places with different characters. Essentially you can tailor your party to the specific environment you’re going to encounter, with the idea of the job system. Also airship customization like Starfield or destiny would be awesome. When you travel maybe you get combat encounters with sky pirates or another kingdoms ships, dragons or other flying creatures. But just imagine being able to fly across Ivalice, see places that may be famous or renowned in the Ivalice setting but in a different time. Also you can change the clothes of the characters to make it more personal and dynamic for the player and just overall add more validity and value to the items you find like in elders scrolls, Elden ring, or baldurs gate 3. Also let’s give more dynamic dialogue with more mature talking points. If there’s mini games make them be able to be played either in the airship or the cities you go to. And less silliness and make it more refined and philosophical like final fantasy tactics. But that dynamic and unique party like final fantasy 7, and the refined return to turn based combat. Let’s make the UI really beautiful and refined like persona or like path of exile or possible less intrusive like Elden ring but then very fluid and well designed like persona in combat and when your speaking to npcs. I think there’s so many ways to refine and make final fantasy the best jrpg possible by adapting what it already did prior in other prolific entries to the series from the past but also learn from other legendary games as mentioned. Final fantasy already has all the features, aesthetics and lore to create a truly rich gaming experience.
I’m technically a lapsed fan. I was a huge fan from 7 to X-2 back in the day. 12 I liked but it started showing signs I wasn’t fond of and which 13 continued that unsatisfied feeling. And now with releases taking years and they do a lot I’m disinterested in. So of course my interest faded. Anything can happen though, like I really like Resident Evil but lost interest for years and now I’m back to being a big fan. So I can jump back in to FF but I need a reason too which isn’t there right now. If anything I’m more interested in going to the earlier games in the series vs the new stuff
If I was to choose only one battle system to go forward with it would definitely be the 7R trilogy’s. That being said after awhile it would become stale. So I’m also for innovation and change. What I think they should do is perhaps have 3 combat styles that they alternate between. One can be the 7R style. The other can be the XVI style. The other can be an evolution of say the ATB approach to turn based combat. Personally I think combat didn’t start to become fun until FFX and up. The pre-FFX battle system just got the job done. No way I would count any of them among my favorite battle systems. CT wasn’t a lot more fun than all of them and its ATB wasn’t surpassed until FFX-2’s battle system came along. As for the series as a whole they need to prioritize the younger generation as the primary audience. Us millennials, the older gen Z, and younger gen X aren’t getting any younger. Some of us have other responsibilities so no way we should primarily be catered to if SE wants to grow the franchise.
I think today we can't have a really slow paced turn based rpg, it wouldn't work, my minds don't work as they used to. We don't have that much patience anymore because of the stimulation we have been getting and we would be bored af and drop it. So, they either develop their identity through the style final fantasy had and add visual and stylish elements like Persona or keep go with the approach of Final Fantasy VII Remake or Clair Obscur. I think Clair Obscur is going to be a turn based banger but it would be so obvious if Square copied that, so I think they should keep the best result of experimenting so far which is VII remake battle system. They sacrificed a looot of games from XII to XVI in search of this battle system and finally got it so I agree they should keep it as their identity moving on. Also, they did some things well in adding stuff on Rebirth but failed to improve on things like air combat, stun locking, adding too much synergy stuff (abilities on guard button). So what I meant was they need to improve on what they have but they have this tendency on pushing the bar way too hard every time even when they don't need to. In conclusion, I think they should build their identity now based on FFVII Remake combat system, improve on that, have some spice in each game but don't push too hard.
I definately disagree with you with time between releases being a major factor for people to lose interest in the series. One of the chiefs of Rockstar Games spoke in an interveiw back in 2016. criticizing Disney's plan to release a New Star Wars every year will "wear off" any desire for fans for a Franchise while the long development cicles and wait for a new GTA is what makes the IP valuabe. And as far as we know, It has worked pretty well for Rockstar and pretty bad for Disney. GTA being released every 6 years (well, now It's been 10) it's not just a matter of development cycle for such a huge game, but also a well tought out marketing strategy. Meanwhile, I doo agree with most of your arguments. These games cost A LOT to make. YES I AM AWARE that Rockstar is also guilty of the same sins when it comes to unnecessary spectacle features in their games like the dynamic horse balls. And we can all agree that it's mostly unecessary. The amount of spectacle of FFXVI compared to the amount of actual GAMEPLAY in the game makes me wonder what the hell the non animation/cutscene team has been doing for this game throughout it's development cycle. (I haven't played VII remake/rebirth yet by my money is on the same amount). Also, the trend chasing is a problem. I don't think there's anything wrong with the game leaving turn based mechanics, we've all grown up out of sticking com specific genres and playing diferent sort of games. And Final Fantasy has allways been a game we play for the story, not for the gameplay. It's combat system has allways been much more simples and intuitive than other JRPGs of the same era in which every game was released. BUT, Square seem to be chasing the WRONG trends and implementing them poorly. We've seen lots of examples of Franchises that in order to appeal to a wider audience chase a trend and end up Alienating their fanbase. Think games like Fallout 3 when it became first person or Splinter Cell Conviction leaving out the tactical slow pace aproach to a fast paced action shooter. But when It comes to Final Fantasy, like you said: there is not a Tight Fanbase to alienate anymore with those changes. When you talk in the video about how you felt while watching the FFXVI trailer, I felt diferent a bit diferent. I also come from a place where I felt disconected from the series - that I've grown out of it and It wasn't for me anymore. When the first trailer came out It all seemed too generic: "Oh, another Japanese RPG with prety bland stereotypes of medieval eaurope with absurdly white clean dresses walking on the mud without getting Dirty. HD Fire Emblem." But as they released new trailers and new story bits the interest growns. And something that got me excited about this game is that It was the First Final Fantasy since XI (I dont'like MMOs either). that had a consisten development cycle from start to end. XII had Yasume Matsuno's vision changed and then left mid development. XIII and XV was this big ambicious megalomacianic project Fabula Nova Cristalis that never fully realized and chaged direction many times. XIV launch was a disaster and they were able to fix later, so to MMO fans is a pretty decent game. Good fo You Guys. As for Turn/base vs Real Time I overall think this is a fruitless discussion that doesn't really matter because if you look at other JRPG franchises, some have moved away from turn based, some have sticked to it like Persona, and other have been a mix of Real time with random encounters like the Tales Series and overall JRPG enjoyers play all of them. I don't think there's any JRPG fan purist enought that would refuse to play any game that is not turn based. The combat system has to WORK in a satisfying way regardless. Most people who gave FFVII remake a try love the combat system. I can see many flaws in XVI. The combat doesn't hold up for such a long game (and my experience with DMC and Platinum Games tell me It wouldn't hold up for 12 hours either), the exploration is basic, enemy variety is poor. Again: I can't think of where those 100 milion bucks went. But it's a game with an excelent story that Is far more into the Final Fantasy spectrum of story that a Game of Thrones one; despite being admitedly inspired by it)
The generation that looks at the PS3 as their childhood system never had a good Final Fantasy game to sink their teeth into. 12 tried to reinvent the wheel, and 13 (plus it’s stupid sequels) literally nearly killed the franchise. That same generation is grown now. FF has an identity with that generation and it’s not a good one. That’s their issue. They missed out on an entire generation of consumers.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I only skipped Rebirth and FF16 because they were on PS5. There just weren't enough PS5 exclusives games to justify the system for me. Plus PS5s were extremely hard to find for a long time. Now that FF16 is on PC I just bought it. I'm just waiting for Rebirth to be ported. I can't be the only one who was simply willing to wait for Square to port it.
Final Fantasy is not about being the same as the previous game. I love Final Fantasy because every title feels unique and special while remaining true to the universe as a whole (Crystals, Chocobos, Summons, Magic etc.) It's not for a small group of people (purists *cough*) but for everyone. Some people have their favourite titles, some people only love VI-X and some people love the series as a whole. And yes, some people even call XIII or XV their favourite and that's what Final Fantasy is all about - the journey and the feelings the different players get from the game. There is no such thing as "FFVI is better than FFVII" or "How can you like FFXV?! The game is trash and has no turn-based combat and blah blah" - those are all personal opinions. We all have our individual feelings and memories about the games and, as stated above, that's why I love Final Fantasy so much. So to answer your question: No, Final Fantasy doesn't have an identity crisis - YOU as a player decide which Final Fantasy you most IDENTIFY with.
So there is some truth to this, however there are other factors to consider. If we look at the Tales series or Persona series, they stay consistent with there games. They improve some aspects, but its for the most part the same game (dragon quest games too.) And people love it. We look at there sales, and it just consistently goes up. People feel safe knowing it will be a similar formula but improved upon. Final fantasy isn't consistent, and as such, people dont feel safe trusting the brand. And look, people have there favorite persona games or there favorite tales games, while still keeping a strong foundation of a formula. But final fantasy takes very big risks. The gambit system in 12, paradigm system in 13, 15 and 16 action games, etc. People dont know what to expect, which makes having a stable trust in the brand feel unsafe. When people are asked what is Persona or Tales, easy answer. When people are asked what is final fantasy? Well...now its complicated. Which time period and which game, because there are very VERY different games. This can have its positives and negatives, but I see why many agree this results in an identity crisis. Furthermore, we can indeed determine which games are better than others, but that requires proper analysis and critique. Saying a game is better or worse because its an action game isnt accurate criticism. That is opinion as you say. But saying a battle system is more refined than another is fair and accurate, provided they can back up what they say. Same with narrative implementation, or level design, etc. These are measurable and can be determined with proper analysis. Hell, my favorite is ff9, but I would argue ff6 is the best one. I love ff13, but I concede it isnt a very well done game. Gotta take personal bias out of the equation, which can be difficult for fans. Overall, yes people will have there personal favorites. But the consistency being in such major flux (as well as implementation of other genres not being clean) absolutely plays a factor for general interest in the franchise. Veterans of the series dont feel safe trusting the brand, and newer players struggle to dive in. Just my perspective
Picking and choosing which games you like will no longer be an option if the series goes extinct. People are taking the series for granted at this point as if Square has unlimited money to spend and just keep cranking out AAA games when they don't sell. 2 to 3 million sales for your flagship entries isn't enough to keep the series alive in this day and age.
@@jesse1381 I can certainly agree with this. However, SquareEnix really needs to get rid of the exclusivity. While I don't think this would immediately solve the sales problem, it would help A LOT. The more people who can play the game, the more people might recommend it. If Final Fantasy went the way of Persona/Tales/DQ in your case, believe me, people would complain that it wasn't innovative enough, and if it tried to be innovative, they would complain that it wasn't the same as before. The truth is, you really can't satisfy everyone when it comes to Final Fantasy. FFVIIR has phenomenal combat, but even that is not enough for the turn-based-purists. I absolutely loved FFXVI story but then again, people say it's a cutscene simulator. It's like playing every Final Fantasy before FFX and saying "there is too much text to read". So it basically comes down to if you like it or not. Same with Resident Evil or Dark Souls for example: Some people only like certain titles, even though it's "basically the same". Weird times, but I hope SquareEnix will manage to pull it off with the next title.
@@GodofGoblinsyou say this as if persona 1 and 2 duology aren’t entirely different then what came after them in gameplay department. The tales games also have wildly varying gameplay styles from entry to entry.
they lose their identity cuz they depart fron their core turn based mechanic. Final Fantasy should not adapt action based systems from other games just to suit the trends and please new gamers. Diehard Og fans on the franchise majority of us want the old style turn based system with good graphics as not good back then. thats all what we want and dont do remakes and deviate the true story of the games narrative twisted to suit new audience. thats the major problem of square enix these days. they dont cater the wants of the OG Fans. foe example RE remake that game truly stands out remakes that true to the source material. adding like liza trevor to give more to the story. thats the way to do remakes. make better graphics and still grounded to its game mechanics and the original story.
Even the early games had different gameplay so I don’t get how this series has a identity crisis, I definitely wouldn’t compare the gameplay of ff1 to the class system of ff3 or even comparing the class system of 3 to that of 5s… people just like to complain or do people really think it has an identity crisis “BeCaUsE iTs NoT tUrN bAsEd”
I don't really mind changes in game play. What got me addicted to the FF series was the story telling and characters. Two aspects that have been lacking post-X. 16 was such a huge disappointment despite their story telling being strong in 14. It's just frustrating now to think it's been 23 years since X, 23 years of SE botching every single player story line.
I agree. There is so much talk on the gameplay but for me it’s the plot and moreso the characters. 12 onward I find the character casts as a lot less interesting.
People don't look at the actual numbers when they talk sales too often and go with prevailing sentiments and soundbites which clouds their opinion. When you hear P5 was a roaring success everywhere, what does that mean? Last figures I saw was in the realm of 8 mil. Oh but wait... that actually included everything before tactica, so vanilla, royal, strikers, and the dancing game. All. Which were released on absolutely everything. Numbers for Rebirth are hush hush, but the numbers I saw for Remake were 'over 7 million'. I forgot to check if that was before or after the PC release that those numbers were released and not going back now. They talk about Like A Dragon being so successful... and the 1 week figures theee were 1 million compared to FF16's 1 week of 3. The comparisons you made are not reflective of the actual wording. They are reflective of how the news outlets framed these things, and also yes... how the companies did. Atlus used to be so niche. P5 made them way more broadly known. And their budgets will be way smaller than a FFVIIR/RB. So even though that's across 4 games and included the dev to put those on everything, that's a big success to them. Like a Dragon... there's generally a lot of asset reuse in the Yakuza series, obviously that will have changed with needing to create combat from scratch and wildly new locations like Hawaii, but their 3rd as much one week sales was lauded compared to FF16's. I just find it all... interesting.
Idk man I was very hyped for 16 and loved it and the Remakes ive loved so much aswell. I got into the franchise with 15 and I loved a lot about it, currently playing througg FF10, ive played others than the one mentioned, but I might be a very small minority that got so heavy into this franchise this late
One of the main people at square said something like "you can't do turn based with modern graphics" and they have just assumed this is true for decades now yet their sales are down. Instead of trying to think of a way to make a turn based game work with modern graphics, they just assume that they have to pivot to some devil may cry shit.
Jackass, if it wasn't for the hype associated with Ff7 from the Playstation 1 era, the Devil may cry franchise has a more profound legacy and absolutely wipes the floor with whatever Ff has to offer in terms of content, worlds and characters.. Idiots at capcom don't realize the golden egg they have in the form of dmc and keep churning out RE after RE... Dante over any lazy ass ff character ever, including Cloud....
The whole "people are just not interested in Final fantasy anymore" argument and "games are not consistently coming out so people forget about the franchise" would be valid points if Final fantasy XIV wasn't such a popular game at the moment (well, maybe not that much since Dawntrail but still). You say you didn't play XIV because you're not into MMOs, which is fair, but you can't discard the Final fantasy hype that built up for the past three or four years specifically because of XIV. Lots and lots of streamers played older FFs because of XIV and tried both XVI and the remake trilogy because of it too. So, yeah, I'm not sure that point is as valid as it sounds. If anything, Final fantasy had a very strong reputation of good storytelling, great musics and incredible epicness when XVI came out. The reason why XVI did not do as well as (they were) expected is because of XVI's own qualities or maybe lack of it. It just did not deliver despite its merits. The game lacks interesting RPG elements that would make its gameplay loop appealing in the long run and doesn't exactly respect its players time with all these useless sidequests (that give you no real rewards since there aren't any RPG elements in the game in the first place). Same goes for Rebirth but in a different way. Rebirth has a very enjoyable combat system that keeps the player interested for a long time but is overbloated with too much stuff. Makes the whole thing hard to digest in the end. And then both games suffer from the very bad pacing of their stories. If Square Enix want to make huge sales with their next FFs, I'm sorry to tell them there is no miracle recipe, but they probably should focus on making games the devs themselves would like to play and not games they think would appeal to most. That's the very basis of making great stuff. On that note, a FF IX is a pretty bad idea even if the original game is pretty popular in the fanbase. That being said, yeah, they should probably build around their action/ATB hybrid system for the time being to make all the next installments feel like they're part of the same franchise.
In the great words of hirobobu sakaguchi-san, final fantasy is EVERYTHING and 7 rebirth delivers on that promise. Make a few games EXACTLY like that and the whole world will have no choice but to freak out 😂
I'm not saying I want FF to end, because why would I. But I am saying there does come a point where any long running series just gets so long, it sort of loses something and is never quite there again. FF getting to 16 entries is wild. Imagining an FF 20 is ridiculous, almost comedic. I'd be here for it, but expecting it to remain as successful or for it to not lose key parts of itself, after all this time, it's just not realistic. Which isn't an excuse for anything, just an observation. (at least FF still sort of resembles itself, other franchises I enjoy totally lost themselves. Halloween is a mess of constant reboots that each have almost nothing in common with the original 6 films at all. Doctor Who got rebooted in the 00s as essentially an entirely different concept and has just lost itself deeper and deeper down it's own arse, frankly. Castlevania got replaced by a series of generic anime pseudo jrpg metroid clones that were total messes despite being enjoyable and had nothing to do with Castlevania at all. list goes on.)
Problem with Final Fantasy is that they make too many games and this can be good if they branch off and make new content for each universe so that they can better capitalize on the benefits of each system for future game development. Like Elder Scrolls is pretty much the same game, just made dumber and dumber for future customers. Maybe not the best example.
No that is incorrect, When dealing with large titles and licenses SE can buy the license to produce on UE4 it costs around a million or so upfront cost, but has no extra fees after that point on the sales of the game. The stores do charge a fee like Epic game store - but if your game is made on UE then that cost is also reduced, and because they give a exclusive deal to Epic game store, that also reduces the loss margin in the sales price. Rebirths costs would have been less than remake, and part 3 will be less than rebirth, when looking at it in a whole Remake profits made the money to fund the rest of the series. what ever the other two games earn is the profits, The former CEO was bad, and spent the budgets on nonsese games DEI and cash grabs I agree. FF16 combat system will play nicely into Terranigma remake. FF7r2 combat will probably be the future of Final fantasy. My largest complaint about final fantasy is each one is completely different, they waste years creating new worlds new lore, and then throw it away and do it all again, it is the most mental way of doing things, each Final fantasy game is like creating a Epic world like baulders gate, or neverwinter, to put it in d&d terms, Then they throw it away, what a waste. I believe SE should be releasing Final Fantasys more often in the established worlds, so after 7 remakes, seaquils made in that world, using its machanics. FF9 remake series would be turn based, FF16 seaquils would be action based. The teams within SE could then cycle the releases of games, if development time was 7 years, 3 teams could release a FF game every 2 years. Each creative studio could work on 2 titles as well, 1 being a Final Fantasy the other being a passion project. This would be to solve the burnout problem, and people leaving the teams. Creative studio 3 would work on - Final Fantasy 14 & Terranigma Creative studio 1 would work on - FF7r & FF6r - FF8r & FF10r 1/2/3 ( All following the same combat system ) Creative studio 2 would work on - KH4 - FF13 1/2/3 reimagined. Creative studio 4 would work on - Past title remasters - porting & updating main titles to all platforms.
I had to double check to make sure my memory is correct, but I confirmed that Epic charges 5% royalty fees for any game made in the Unreal Engine after it's sold more than 1 million dollars. Answer from googling the question: "Unreal Engine charges a 5% royalty fee to game developers and other users who distribute applications that incorporate Unreal Engine code if the lifetime gross revenue from that product exceeds $1 million USD. The first $1 million is royalty-exempt." On top of that, Steam on the Playstation store both takes 30% for any game sold on their store, but you're right, Epic charges less and gives an even bigger discount for Unreal Engine titles sold on their store. You are reminding me that I still want to finally finish playing through Terranigma one of these days. I've always loved the game, but I've started it over from the beginning like 5 times over the years because I kept losing my saves on emulators or wanted to refresh myself on the story and mechanics. I'd love to get a simple modernized port of that game on current gen systems and Steam.
Personally I love the FF games, I’m 34 and buy them day one… the one big thing that I’m noticing, is that it seems like FF games just aren’t bringing in a new audience, for whatever reasons. Whenever I ask my casual friends if they are going to try some of these awesome FF games, they end up just being confused by the series and why is there a 16 and 7 being released near the same time, why are the numbers 16 & 7, feeling like the series has past them by. I know that I’m not explaining it well enough, but imagine a casual trying to get interested. They’re just confused honestly.
Yeah, it is hard for me to fully understand why it isn't appealing as much to younger generations. I got my 13 year old nephew into OG FF7 a few years ago and he really liked it through to the end (using cheats in the modern version.) It blows my mind that Remake just isn't holding his interest about 20 hours into the game. He doesn't seem to care about the excellent cutscenes or nuance to character interactions, story, and music, or the tactical aspects of battle. He gets tired of it after 15-20 minutes and surprisingly says he likes turn based better after also playing FF1 remasters for a few hours. He also said that he doesn't really enjoy finding new weapons / gear in either game or experimenting with materia. He loves Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft and Zelda though. Edit: One other thing. It's always been rare for any of my friends to get into Final Fantasy going all the way back to my first in the series when I was 8 - FF4. So I guess this isn't a completely new phenomenon, but it felt like FF was gaining traction and popularity for a while. Now that they've nailed the formula with 7R, it feels like it's at risk of fading into obscurity again.
@@drumjod That's the reality of the new generation. They just don't care. The attention span and excitement to dive into an intricate story over 3 parts is just not there with them. They'd rather nope out
@@jesse1381 Agreed. I kept thinking as they get older it could appeal to them more, but as the years pass, it's feeling less likely. It's true that a lot of the younger generation grows up on games that give dopamine hits (rewards basically) really frequently to keep their attention and that seems to make the pacing we're used to less enjoyable for them. You also made a good point regarding the numbered titles, I think there's a chance they could actually increase sales for new customers if they starting dropping the numbers (and the name remake) in the titles and just name the games something like: "Final Fantasy Subtitle." That would make it more clear to newcomers that they don't need any prior knowledge and they're not missing out on any previous games to fully enjoy it.
FFX was corny. FFXII could have been awesome but the suits wanted another X. Vagrant Story and the original FF tactics were the better direction to go at the time. The maturity of VI and VII weren't really capitalized on and the series would do better to take a look back at those themes. XVI tried to tap into it but missed the mark in regard to the world exploration. Player controlled airships need to comeback as well as dungeon crawling and exploration in general. I don't think any of this will happen and the series will eventually fadeaway.
Don’t really see why we’re supposed to give a shit how much these games sell or the ridiculous perception by non-fans that the games are having a “identity crisis,” it just seems like the old guard hates them trying new things and game development takes longer so no matter what they do they piss some old “super fans” off. We are not the company’s executives so it in no way affects us or matters to us as consumers what they make financially, I don’t see anyone discussing sales figures for any game series but final fantasy, I wonder why that is. This discourse that influencers are driving for engagement that the brand is failing or has an identity crisis will only drive the company to make more formulaic, derivative, and boring games.
I think most of the 'old guard' absolutely loves what 7R is doing, especially with the combat. I'm around the discussions in the community quite a bit, I've loved the series since FFIV when I was 8, and I think the new things they're doing with 7R are nailing it. The reason that big fans care about sales is because number of sales will have an effect on what kind of Final Fantasy games we get in the future. People want the devs to hear their feedback because we want them to know what we loved and what we didn't like as much. Of course, our feedback needs to be constructive and respectful for it to have any potential for a positive outcome.
To echo drumjod, Square Enix brings up sales for their games all the time. So it naturally becomes a talking point for fans. The FF series has been seeing declining sales for a bit now and in the gaming industry that can lead to a franchise being put on ice, sometimes temporarily and sometimes permanently. Like I mentioned in the video I just want to see this franchise be healthy and successful and I’m pretty much down for anything different for the franchise, but I can also acknowledge that from a gameplay perspective it is really difficult for newer or non fans to find something to attach to for the series.
Im not really a die hard fan of FF series but I played most of their titles except FF 1-4, FF11, FF14 and spinoff like world of FF and strangers of paradise but IMO i prefer the new dmc style FF. I really feel immersed in the gameplay and the story, it brings back the old FF I know of.
no its not, FF 6 is considered one of the best in the franchise, but its setting was completely diferent from any other before it, 7 went further, and so did 8. X which is highly beloved has nothing to do with any other in the franchise. same with 13 and 15. 11 and 14 were MMOs. and 16 is a return to the medieval setting last seen in 9, i would say 12, but then i remembered how its more of a magitech world, less european, and almost middle eastern, crusades era setting. the only argument would be about the combat system. but to anyone who actually played the franchise, this is nothing new, since ff7 onwards, every game had massive core diferences to the games before when it came to combat. even 5 ditched the traditional ATB system, for a grandia style CTB. and 12, while LOOKING action, is mostly a free movement, but still ATB based combat. using gambit so players could focus more on movement, and controling 1 character. in many ways, the ff7 remake/rebirth, is a more modern take on that system, trading gambit, for more in battle control. which is specially important, since, one of the biggest complaints about 12 was how the gambit system trivialized the game, as you could just set it up to play itself with no need for any input of the player during combat. and that would arguebly be more effective, as there would be no reason to waste time with decision making in combat.
FF7 Remake Trilogy is the way to go and the golden solution. It keeps the identity of what FF was and creates an UNIQUE system that blends perfectly Turn Based feeling strategy and Action focus games. I don't want to see FF copying Persona just because some fans wants turn based to be back. If FF does that then it's core identity will be gone. SE has the perfect evolution of their franchise right now in their hands with Remake/Rebirth/Part 3 not just with combat but the main thing that modern FF titles were missing was the Worldmap. The Worldmap in Rebirth is the evolution and the way to go for FF in the future.
...Except that Rebirth is the worst-selling mainline FF game since FF2 in 1988. The amount of delusional takes in this comment section is off the charts
final fantasy Games never had the sane type of type of game since 1 through 6 there always been changing up how final fantasy is and each final fantasy games have records sales and the most brought version of final fantasy games are console noboby except streamer, content creators and people who have money buys pc games not many people have the money to buy a 400 to 2000 dollars video cards a few years and every new cards that comes video games companies want to and every new video games that comes out for the pc the video games companies what to use the new features of the card in there games
Analisando a série, ela é bem consistente na maioria das vezes, inclusive os spin of... Não consigo reconhecer essa crise de identidade na franquia e sim desculpa de quando os devs não sabem o que fazer direito.
People need to stop the bs around Turn Based, it’s been 20+ year without one. Deal with it. Persona is an exception. P3R didnt sold as much as P5/P5R and Yakuza the same. Turn based isn’t the solution but consistency yes Now having a consistent core mechanics like the ATB from FF4 to FF9 it is something the series is lacking since FF10 Still you have the typical cicly: a FF game release and its hate, the previous one is magical good and the one previous is a somehow a masterpiece Just take 7 Remake and Rebirth for the core mechanics for the following 2 mainline games
Great video, although I disagree. What killed it for me was the FF remake padding and extra story. It was truly awful And personally I didn't like the battle system, I just used Tifas special move over and over to finish the game. SE (square?) was very innovative in the 90s and was at the forefront of ideas, but not anymore. I guess doing this now is ridicuously expensive. Persona gets it right and new FF is just a frankenstein of ideas. Also I won't engage with the new FF fandom as they are defensive and rabid as hell.
Personally im done with FF after FF7R trilogy. If they remaster the older games then ill be there for it. But FF16 was such a disappointment. I did not care about it. It tried too hard to be dark and edgy and the single playable protagonist sucked. If the game didnt have summons or a chocobo i wouldn't even tell if it was an FF game. The heavy hack and slash gameplay was too far a leap for me too. As disappointing as FF16 was it made me look back at FF15 more fondly and enjoy it for what it was. These days im more excited for games like the octopath traveler series. Those games are almost exactly like FF without the name. Im just done. After 7 remake pt3, im just done. The real last game in the series for me is FF15. Anything after that is irrelevant to me. With exception to remasters of older games however but thats it.
The series definitely has an identity crisis. Square Enix should just stop taking risks and just make good games just like what Team Asano (Developers of Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D Remake, and many more games), and the Dragon Quest team have been doing. Making great games that fans want and that stays true to their Japanese gameplay roots. This whole thing for the higher ups at Square (Nomura and Yoshi-P) of taking risks, chasing trends, westernizing their games, these ugly photorealistic graphics, them wanting to push the limits of technology, their insane development budgets, these unrealistic expectations, and them just milking FF7 is why Square is struggling and the games are failing. The reason for FF7R and FF16's failure is one because it's exclusive to PS. Square being yanked by the neck by Sony's dog leash every time. But also because they're not selling well in Japan and no one cares about FF and what the series has become. They keep catering to the wrong audience that don't even play those games. Not only that, but Square keeps ignoring Nintendo's success especially in Japan with the Switch. Square Enix should learn from developer MonolithSoft (Developers of Xenoblade). PlayerEssence explained things in his recent video and he is absolutely right with what he was talking about.
idk. XVI to me, was a superb game, a GOTY. I get quite bored by turn-based combat so this was right up my alley. The story, the characters - chefs kiss. The only thing that bothered me was how they ended it... I really hate these bs vaque endings where you can make up whatever you want to suit you fantasy. Dion deserved better, Clive and Jill deserved better, Joshua deserved better... other than that, both FFXVI and Rebirth were outstanding, both left me traumatized for weeks
Personally I think that newer fans are not getting into FF because many older fans are not doing a good job at welcoming them into the fold. We are terrible at making new fans feel like they can play these games and express their opinions without feeling judged and thus younger fans don't even bother to check out the franchise. I have no proof that this is an issue but it is a gut feeling that I get interacting with new fans online
The people who grew up with Kingdom Hearts and new FF fans are rabid and toxic online and will argue about the colour of Tifas shoes, let alone the size of her chest.
se is just full of dmc fanboy now, they lost me at 15. check out how yoshi-p answer any question about combat mechanics, to me they always feel sarcastic.
TBH the only games that feels like FF games nowdays are the games that are created by CBU1. Because that is only team that has developers that were part of the old guard. I dont care what anybody is saying, FF13 series and the 7 Remake series still feel like FF games to me. FF12,FF15 and FF16 were made by completely different teams and wich is why they feel so different. I think for the mainline titles I think they should stick with 1 gameplay style and develop new systems for it for each game (like the older games). And figure out a way so they can come out within 3-4 years for each title. I think FF7R combat has the most pontential out of the systems they have created so far to be the most versatile.
not a fan of this notion tbh. Final Fantasy has been about change for a very long time. If someone hasn't been able to come with grips to that at this point, that's on them. I hope to god Square doesn't listen to the tiresome old guard that keeps whining about action combat. You can play Pokemon if you want the same game over and over again.
Other things that could help with it's identity issue is having airship travel and combat that is a mix between Assassin's Creed and Kingdom Hearts Gummi Ship gameplay.
I agree with many others, I don't think they NEED to stick to a specific gameplay style. If they did, we wouldn't have had the combat masterpiece that FFVII rebirth (more so than remake) that we did. They are not afraid to test things out and I applaud them for it. Some fail, some succeed, that's part of life. However, if they do decide to focus on a specific system, I do hope it's the FFVII rebirth one, but this only applies to the actual combat, I hope they continue to experiment other systems for the weapons, spells, skills and all that, keep it fun and fresh.
To be honest Final Fantasy's whole thing is about having an identity crisis. Both in-game and IRL development.
FFXV released on literally everything when it came out in 2016. Makes sense that its sales were great (aside from it actually being a great game). XVI was actually really good as well, but I think its problem was its exclusivity.
The last time SE made a turn based Final Fantasy, nobody bought it, and it's actually one of the most underrated games in the franchise (World of Final Fantasy).
I think the game did not sell well bcus of the lame and cringe dialogue.. I cannot stand lahn or their interactions that seemed forced in every possible way. Terrible story and terrible dialogue , I've tried replaying it also, I will never beat it
Finally, somebody remembers World of Final Fantasy. It was a fun cross-over game.
XV released only on PS4 and Xbox one when it came out and over 80% of its sales were on PlayStation. It wasn’t on PC. So yeah exclusivity isn’t the main issue with the franchise at the moment
I don’t get why Final Fantasy HAS to have ONE consistent type of gameplay in order for it to not be in an “identity crisis”. To its core, Final Fantasy is a FANTASY STORY experienced through a video game. The way in which you play that fantasy story, whether it’s through turn based combat or real time shouldn’t matter because the game has ALWAYS marketed itself as a FANTASY story experienced through a video game. Also, if Square really was going through a crisis, wouldn’t it show within the gameplay? I mean, the FF7R trilogy and FF16 seem to have known EXACTLY what they were going to be gameplay AND story wise. Wouldn’t it have been less consistent if they were really going through a crisis?
I agree, its identity is solid as changing things up were a part of its identity
Agreed. When people talk about the older games they always talk about the story. Nobody, except for overweight boomers, and I mean nobody ever talk about the combat. The story and setting was always most important.
You raise a great point, but what’s baffling is that FF still has great stories and characters, but for whatever reason something isn’t clicking with the wider audience.
If it's not selling, then yes, there is a crisis. FF16 might be a good game on its own but it's not a good Final Fantasy game. The lack of a playable party with unique controllable characters is just not Final Fantasy. You can have different stories and different worlds but Final Fantasy has to get back to its core values
@@REDEEMERWOLFif Final Fantasy is only about the story and setting, then why is it that all Sakaguchi FF games had a core identity, which far exceeded story or combat, or any individual elements, but still felt very true and in-tune to its nature with each iteration?
One example is that FF avoided sequels like the plague because Sakaguchi hates sequels. It's not as simple as pointing out individual game systems. What makes FF, well, FF is much more complex and nuanced.
They think it's enough to put chocobos, Ifrit and someone named Cid in it.
Square is honestly trying a bit too hard to match trends in my opinion. Ever since FFX, they have been trying out different combat/gameplay systems, in order to adapt to the marketplace.
I understand why they won’t go back to turned based, because obviously action RPG are the “meta” right now. But taking a gamble at new things to see if they work, doesn’t always help.
FFXVI is a good game, but in my eyes it took away several things that I enjoyed from Final Fantasy, especially the strategic and RPG elements.
I feel like Square needs to stop taking gambles and try to innovate what they have already. The FFVII Remake/Rebirth is in my opinion, their best take on real time action combat. It has strategy and real time gameplay in one. It does not hurt to reuse this system for FFXVII and beyond.
Are they really “trying a bit too hard to match trends,” or just experimenting with different gameplay styles that you and others don’t like or won’t even give a chance? FFXVI was an action game because the devs said they like action games and wanted to see if they could make one, not to chase a trend. The problem with this fanbase is that they do not want the series to expand or try something new, and everytime they do the fanbase shits on the game for “not being an FF,” and shitting on it for trying something different. This is the type of bad negative pressure/criticism that is going to pressure the company into making every new FF game boring and the same due to fan backlash. Even Sakaguchi said that the problem with the franchise is that they are shackled by the fanbase’s rigidity of what they perceive an FF game to be. If every game played like FF7R, FF7R would stop feeling unique and becoming boring and played out. But I guess be careful what you wish for. I don’t want this franchise to become formulaic and boring but for some reason I guess a lot of people in this franchise want it to be because they’re terrified of change.
Why are you still crying about 16? They made a character focused action game. Get over it.
Are you a child? Are you a cat? Are you incapable of accepting change? You have such a childish and backwards mentality in that you want things to stay the same and hate anything remotely different. God you are insufferable.
@@Erikthedood Not exactly because you could always play God of War or Elders Scroll if you want action games, there should always games for Turn based
I feel like in Remake/Rebirth they have stumbled on a really unique hybrid combat system. I would like to see them adapt it to a new mainline game that isn't linked to any existing stories.
I also agree Square will be continuing down this action based route as they have specifically hired people from Capcom to develop these combat systems.
@@ErikthedoodWe've given it a chance a hundred times. They haven't done anything new, just doing the same thing others do, less well
Yes it is. It has been in an identity crisis for 23 years.
Someone understands how important Sakaguchi and his vision was for the series.
I liked 12 and finished it. But running around like an mmorpg, pre-planning fights and then stopping and filling the screen with lines was definatly weird at the time.
@@adriandenton6637 FF12 was weird but it was better than anything that has come out since. A combat system with actual depth, big open worlds to explore that weren't cut off halfway through the game.
Agree that Square Enix can copy partially from their own games. The FF game after FF7R Part 3 can be a combo of parts from multiple FF games. Many want Gambit system to better strategize other secondary characters while main character can be directly controlled. Some ppl don't like button smashing just to build up one turn / move slot for special moves. Maybe back to FFX's system of wait for filling ur turn gauge to do perform any move. FF13 Lightning Return's had 3 diff "characters" filling up gauges at the same time. Although the wait was there, gauge filling was fast enough that pretty quickly player had to look ahead incoming moves performable, so wasn't boring long wait without button smashing attacks. Maybe allow to queue up diff types of attacks from multiple characters into one single list of attacks; and diff characters' moves in some sequence can be team attack.
Too many people like casual games and think RPGs are overwhelming, but they aren't in reality
I would love to see classic turn based System again
with ever new final fantasy square enix alway reinvented the final fantasy games with new features or gameplay
13-3 was the last REAL turn based or ATB battle they had in the mainline series and it slapped. Be nice to see them build off that or FFX's combat.
FFX battle system was and still is peak.
13-3 eww and nope.
I’m very sorry, but even as a ff13 series Fan I heavily disagree that the third one has the best combat system at least on a personal level.
It was the only game in the series I actively struggled to play. Having moves tied to costume pieces really didn’t gel well with me at all. Not to mention all the moves being tied to all sorts of buttons (I played it on PC).
It genuinely felt like a mess to be honest, but it might just be my personal taste of not liking that kind of… character building? I dunno.
I will admit that the ATB system where the player has seperate bars for each set was pretty interesting, especially since they can recharge at different rates. I liked that. But that’s honestly the only real compliment I can give it.
Very accurate observations. I also wanted to add that the former president of SE openly spoke about NFTs and was a proponent of services. During that period, information began to surface about Sony’s ambitions to release 12 games based on the service model. What’s even more interesting, Square Enix has experience in service-based games for mobile platforms since the early 2000s. This also shows us the direction Square Enix may partially be heading with the changes introduced to their key franchises.
They really do need to set their sights lower, back to basics true to what they were before. Stop trying to chase a trend
I think it would actually be smart if the next main FF entry were a "back-to-the-basics", returning to the old fashioned Turn-Based combat with a customizable party of four, utilizing the Job system and so on. I do think FF should stick with the "Urban Fantasy" aesthetic from FFXV, as it feels very iconic for the brand, it would be a waste to just throw that concept away but instead expand on it.
I'm not sure what I think about gameplay style as I really don't mind the changes over the years, though I guess I'd rather personally it more closely resemble the gameplay styles of the first 10 games (which did vary heavily themselves tbf).
But I totally agree about the urban fantasy thing. In some form or another, this has been the iconic look for the franchise since 7. 7 still had some medieval fantasy towns and was (like 6) more of a steampunk/modern take on classic fantasy settings. Whereas 15 is much more straight up modern+fantasy. But it does have a lot of that classic dna with the royal familys and the kingdoms, the crystals etc. I think keeping that connection to the first 5 games whilst also retaining the more modern elements design wise is a must for the overall franchise at this point.
They're gonna need to put less money into the next game in the series too then. Cause what you're saying will only attract older fans and ppl in general who are already fans
The issue is the best games had great characters (in particular a diverse party) and great worldbuilding and at their peak a great villain. XVI had great worldbuilding but characters were a weak point imo, they needed a larger diverse party that bounce off one another. XV lacked worldbuilding and the characters weren’t diverse. XIII had the parts you’d usually need but over complicated its concepts. XII felt more like a tactics/vagrant story game because it was, it lacked emotional highs with its characters.
You can't do it like that, people's minds have changed, patience has changed, I was a turn based lover I didn't get bored of spending minutes deciding what I want to do and see my character attack slowly and enemy attack slowly but today I just can't and get bored. You can return to the style but you have to make it more dynamic like clair obscur for example or else people are just gonna drop the game
@@miguelribeiro1601 worth noting also that square enix wanted bravely series to be that option and it didn’t sell too well
Everyone misses the main point of why Square - Enix is struggling. And that answer is the Japanese marketplace. Switch is king and currently runs it unchallenged. PS4 had less than 10 million LIFETIME sales in Japan. And when 1 market makes up 50% of your sales traditionally and you don't release on said market's choice console... Well you shouldn't be shocked with the results.
They need to make Japanese games for a Japanese audience. Scale back development to between AA and AAA with the Switch 2 in mind (ports for other platforms). That's the ticket to success. PC and Xbox isn't going to make these things smash hits. FF16's PC steam count over the weekend was only 27,000....Even with a day one release with all the hype that likely translates to under 1 million.
None of this imo. They simply need to make great games more consistently and then port their titles to PC. FF7RIBIRTH was the first major correct hit in the FF franchise in a decade.
They don't need to aim for lower end hardware for FF. Though more switch titles would be welcomed like they did with the crisis core.
The Japanese audience is moving away from consoles on general. It has less to to do with PS and more to do with portability. Switch and Mobile are king in Japan because of their portability.
This issue doesnt just affect final fantasy, but also yakuza series
All it needs to be a Final Fantasy game is To be a fantasy like genre and setting and to have Anime like MC's
FF16 as a game is such a dumbed down RPG, it’s more like an arcade game. YoshiP has no clue how to do stats, leveling system and itemisation, everything was simplified garbage
It used to be about world building, gameplay and characters. Now it's just half empty ideas and 1 character like wtf
Why is it that turn based lovers keep creating this narrative that no turn based means no identity? It is so petty
This is an ignorant noob statement
Make class job
Mage --> turn base charge magic with wall protect monster
Hero-->full action
Red mage --> alittle bit of action and turn base
You can switch between fight
The truth is, after Sakaguchi left, the series has lost its core identity and with every new director coming in, you get a brand new vision. Only Sakaguchi can make a Sakaguchi game. What they could at least try, should be to have the same director and team for FFXVII instead of changing everything up again.
totally agree.
Except Sakaguchi had wanted every game to be different. That was the one thing he wanted of the series after he left.
Ignorance. These last couple games are some of the greatest in the franchise. Console exclusivity in general and in the midst of a console shortage, killed sales. This “identity crisis” narrative is ridiculous.
You are the ignorant one child
I don't agree that only old school fans are buying FF games. I'm gen Z. I was born the same year FF7 was released. I didn't grow up with the "golden age" FF games, and I have no nostalgia for them. The game I have childhood nostalgia for, is, funnily enough... FF13. There are things I like and dislike about each of the modern FF games, but they are what I first and foremost associate with the FF brand. And I know for a fact that there are more of us.
Well, I'm sure there are fans of modern FF fans but that doesn't change the fact that nobody is buying FF nowadays. Why do you think that is?
@@alanlee67 I mean that just straight up isn't true. Plenty of people ARE buying modern FF games. It's just that not ENOUGH people are buying them to make up for SE's other flops.
that's just not true ff16 and rebirth did amazing sales and ff7 rebirth is one the highest rated games this year@@alanlee67
I'm gen z born a bit before you and I started with 10. Played and I DEFINITELY associate 6 through x with ff
@@Mungdaal304 If you were born before me you are not gen Z. I was born 1997. Millenials stretch between 1981 and 1996. Gen Z starts at 1997.
Also obviously my experience isn't going to apply to every Gen Z person out there. It will very much depend on which games we were first introduced to, and when we were introduced to them. But I had no one around me that was into FF, so my first FF game at the time was the most recent title that had come out. I'm just saying that there are some of us that do primarily associate the newer games with FF, and not the old ones.
I disagree with the "FFXVI trying to please everyone" discourse, it definitely and unequivocally tried to alienate non-action fans. Otherwise they wouldn't have blatantly gotten rid of 90% of the RPG mechanics found in the previous games.
Personally, I like action based mechanics. I've been playing more Fromsoft or action oriented Hoyoverse games than anything turn based in recent years because of that. But I just didn't like how FFXVI got rid of the other party members or how they allow you to use fire against a fire bomb, they really didn't have to do that. In fact they removed them because they didn't "want to please everyone", they wanted it to be an action game through and through and exclusively marketed toward action game fans. The alienation was as deliberate as it could be. FF-Type 0, wasn't as much of an action game but at least it had party members and an actual elemental system.
And to be fair, I personally think FFVIIR is the game that tried to please everyone but still kind of failed in that regard. It certainly did please the part of me that like to use other party members and pick an option in a menu, but it certainly didn't please the part of me that likes to dodge and parry (which, let's be honest, were horrible and borderline useless in FF7R). And not sure if anyone who remotely likes more reaction based mechanics really enjoyed the real time action elements in FF7R.
And I'm not saying FF7R is a bad game, I'm just saying it's not very good as an action game. In fact, it's not an action game at all, as in "it's not even a proper ARPG". It's a turn based game with a very thin and superficial layer of action elements put on top, which I think is why quite a few turn based fans seem to praise it. But to me, it's barely different from the FFXIII series.
It's still fairly better than FFXV's base mechanics though.
For me it was FFX.
And i cant forget how perfect the Spheregrid was.
I believe Final Fantasy is whatever the developers want it to be. Fans will complain, but that’s the simple truth. The issue in my view is the series’ relevancy has waned and Square’s memetic “didn’t meet expectations” response when it does a bad business continues to hold true over a decade later. Years-long hype, pandemic lockdowns, and PS4’s install base benefitted Remake, offsetting its exclusive status. 16 and Rebirth had none of those factors and they underperformed because of it.
Fantasian is gon come out soon and it's made by "true" fans most fave director, sakaguchi.
I'm willing to bet that it's not gon touch final fantasy number. This whole tb combat argument is stupid
every anthology series has this so called "identity crisis",
let's take the most popular anthology series and probably the most popular game series of all time call of duty at its prime (2007-2014+2005 since cod2 was the game that put cod on the radar)
advanced warfare was a futuristic game about warmongering corporations, black ops 1-2 were essentially spy thrillers, world at war is probably one of the most visceral ww2 games ever, cod 1-3 were saving private ryan-esque ww2 stories, the original modern warfare was a game about modern conflict that tried to emulate tactical shooters while its two sequels are michael bay movies, black ops 3 was their attempt to make a deus ex game and we don't talk about ghosts
gameplay similarities aside all those games are vastly different in themes and presentation yet that's what kept people playing "the same game every year", it was the fact that when you play the campaign they weren't the same game every year. some of these games are in the same subseries and are vastly different, namely the world at war->black ops 4 subseries, it starts off with probably one of the most gritty games in the series, becomes a cold war spy thriller wrapped in a revenge plot, then has a sequel that carries the same themes, then the 4th game goes into posthumanism (and fails admittedly) then the 4th game does whatever to justify a multiplayer only game. modern warfare doesn't change that much but it cranks everything to 11 in mw2 and 3, advanced warfare does its own thing. yet all of them are call of duty, all of them share the gunplay and progression that made call of duty popular and since cod4 all of them share streaks. even in single player all of them share the same formula of an npc guiding you throughout the mission a couple of gimmick missions to break up the pace, qtes that involve near death situations and slow motion breaching sequences. but all of them differ.
between ffxvi, ff7 rebirth and ffxv, all of them share flashy combat, characters doing crazy acrobatics, the same roster of summons, the themes about defying fate, a love story, a party (even if you only play as clive in 16, you still have a party most of the time), magic...
As many others seem to agree, I think 7R's combat system absolutely nails it. I want them to continue with that as a foundation while tweaking, evolving, and putting new twists on it going forward, just like the older FF's used to do.
lmfao
@@renatoramos8834what’s funny? He’s absolutely spot on.
@@dammyoyesanya4656 LMFAO.
It's been stated a million times already, final fantasy is what the director/dev team interprets it at that time. That's is greatest strength. If it just did the same thing over and over again with slight variations then everyone would complain It's just japanese call of duty or something.
Honestly think just rebranding may be a good idea ! At least have a game specific title ... i have met at least 5 people in my life who havent/or hadnt touched a ff game cuz they thought they needed to know history from previous games ! You get big numbers like 16 now which just sounds intimidating
I personally feel Final Fantasy should have lean more into a more evolved form Final Fantasy VII Remake Trilogy gameplay while being set in high fantasy aetherpunk settings. Final Fantasy is conglomeration of high fantasy, magic, and technology so why not have aetherpunk settings be the default. Aetherpunk can go into steampunk and medieval settings dependent on what sort of worlds they want to develop. Using the gameplay of Final Fantasy VII Remake Trilogy ensures keeping true to it's rpg roots while still satisfying both turn based and action based fans. I would also incorporate aspects of Kingdom Hearts gameplay so we can have better air combat and platforming in their games.
Tell me you haven't played FFI to V without telling me 😂😂😂
@@spyrochrisgaming I haven't seeing as how my first Final Fantasy was X. Then it was VII, VIII, XII, Type 0, XV, VII Remake Trilogy, Strangers of Paradise, Crisis Core Reunion, and XVI. Also wouldn't worlds with technological enemies like Omega and having airships in high fantasy magical worlds be considered Aetherpunk.
I don't think it's an "identity crisis" it suffers from at least in the sense of Square itself. The big thing with all Final Fantasy games is the creative leads have a vision for what they want to create, they pitch the idea, and then development begins and ultimately its just a matter of if this game will succeed or not.
Every Final Fantasy has been met with some polarized opinion and I think that's just because the fan base itself is so wildly varied in their idea of what makes the identity of a 'Final Fantasy' game. And that's more so where this idea of an Identity Crisis comes from.
Like if you took 50 comments asking what someone's favorite Final Fantasy title is. What makes a Final Fantasy game live up to its namesake and even other minor things like Favorite Characters, Favorite Music, etc. You will see just how diverse the opinions tend to be.
It's also the main appeal of final fantasy.
Idk why ppl are so obsessed with sale number. FF9, the highest rated FF had the lowest sale number (for post FF7). All this doom and gloom until you realize Final fantasy still makes any other jrpg sale number looks like a joke.
I think battle system are not the issue here... You want turn base battle but you said you love FF15...I likes FF13 ATB but people hate it so much..
I don’t think it has to be turn based, but it certainly can be. I think the 7R games are better for being what they are than they would be if they were turn based. An FF9 game absolutely makes sense to be turn based. I think it depends on what fits for that game.
I think the bigger thing is that with the cost of creating these games they can’t afford to do one offs anymore. Look at how much the scope and quality increased with Rebirth from Remake. I have to imagine a sequel to FF16 would be much better as well given that they could build off of a solid starting point. If I were them I would keep mainline games spread out but do sequels to each. Maybe even a “Miles Morales” type game for $30. Give me a $30 Cissnei or Rufus adventure haha
I think the identity crisis thing is overblown. 16 is very close in tone and content to the Ivalice games and 14, while the action gameplay that everyone pretends is new, hasn't been new for 2 decades and unlike 15 is actually good. Sakaguchi wanted every FF game to be radically different from the previous one. Being different is what defines FF. Its an anthology series full of new ideas. There are very few mechanical mainstays in the series, even ATB took a break in FF10 before coming back in FF12 as a real time with pause system. The only thing holding FF back is the PS5 exclusivity and people are coming with all sorts of cope to avoid looking at the elephant in the room, which is that the Sony exclusivity deal has been toxic to the franchise.
One of the reasons I love Final Fantasy is the characters and the way they interact with each other and the story. They feel alive. I liked Remake for this reason. The other new games are really lacking on this front so I have no interest in playing them.
All Final Fantasy has to do is remain interesting
Somehow they lost me when party members became autonomous and you had to choose between "aggressive", defensive and neutral auto modes. Taking away control and strategic thinking and exchange it for dmc action button mashing.
As long as true ai isn't out I don't fully trust my party. And this makes such rpgs not really as enjoyable for me anymore.
16 is ok but Lack of Variety like you only control Clive and has no mini game
Now, this is just my opinion.... But, I believe that the "identity crises" that Final Fantasy has been experiencing for about 2 decades now started with the departure of Hamaguchi and then Kitase (with Nomura as a large figure head) taking the lead. Has Kitase and his team made good Final Fantasy games? Yeah, sure, of course they have. But, I would argue that without Hamaguchi being a part of them, the Final Fantasy games have slowly but surely drifted further and further away from their initial identity.
As someone who came into the ff franchise with ff7 remake and who loved ff16 and its combat, i hope they keep the more action favored combat. Honestly, hearing that for the ff9 remake, theyll be going back to turn based kinda bums me out. Guess its just a difference in generations
Or maybe people don't want every game to be an action game. Go tell bluegrass fans you're changing they're genre to some mid grade rap and see if they want to listen to it. Unless they already like shitty rappers for some reason.
Bro FF14 is more of a Final Fantasy than an MMO right now. They integrated more single player aspect in the Main Story quest where you can now play the game without interacting with any other players. You should give it a try if you're looking for a fresh perspective for the Final Fantasy franchise. It worked for me hopefully it can re-ignite the spark with the franchise for you. Plus the story is arguably one of the best Square had released across all the games.
I lost interest after spending 3 hours hitting plants with a stick. Yea I heard the early gameplay involves this.
@@adriandenton6637 Yeap that's pretty much accurate
What I want would be helped by going back to turn based combat... it's not the turn based combat I'm actually after, but what I'm after is magic that isn't just pew pew bolts and beams. The magic should feel like more than just a projectile with an element. Waterga should be drowning people, not just shooting a bigger ball of water. Part of what I've not loved about the Final Fantasy move to new engines and real-time combat is that they just sort of... did what the engine already supported in terms of magic. There's zero creativity in throwing a ball of fire, every game since the 1980s had that... the cool think about AOE magic is... well, it looks freakin awesome. I kind of think they took the wrong message from the first iteration of 15 (I didn't play later iterations because the day 1 version was pretty awful and incomplete), they kind of stumbled with AOE magic because in the real time fighting, you'd cook your own people, because the AI wasn't smart enough to not run directly into the fire. Instead of working to make it right, they gave rings that made your people invulnerable to it, then just kind of ditched AOE magic for pew pews and beams in FF16, and to a large extent, in FF7/FF7R. I'm fine with them trying new things, but the magic, which was the main reason I loved the series, has just gotten dull AF and is now like literally every other mediocre game out there. The other thing is just pacing... FF16 had a ton of cookie cutter sidequests that weren't super rewarding in an emotional investment sense, and just felt like filler.
Hey do you think square will release rebirth for pc in summer 2025?
Ff7re already solved the rpg/action compromise. Regarding wait times, they need 2 studios working on mainline titles..when one comes out, the next should be well on it's way.
7,10 and 16 are the best final fantasy’s
@@SOLIDPEDINI 7, 10 & imo
(I haven't watched the video yet, apologies.) I think one of the biggest factors influencing FFs "decline" is the long wait in between mainline games. And this isn't just a problem unique to FF, but a AAA gaming problem in general. Game development times have ballooned out of control. During the "golden age of FF", if someone didn't enjoy the latest game (let's say they loved 7, but didn't like 8) the next FF game was right around the corner, and they could be excited for that. And then if they still didn't like 9 for whatever reason, then 10 was also around the corner.
But now, let's say someone didn't like 15. It would be 7 years for their next "chance" to enjoy FF again. Of course there are still spinoffs coming out (Strangers of Paradise) but I'm talking about the mainline series. Each game having a unique vibe and different gameplay wouldn't be so bad if there was a fast turnaround in between games. But because each mainline entry has been pretty divisive since 12, combined with them taking 5 years (give or take) to come out has killed FFs momentum and growth.
They really need to let go of graphics because they don't sell games as much anymore, (even though FF16 was still very enjoyable to me, and I admit the spectacle of the Eikon fights were amazing) and focus on getting new games out faster. Going 5-7 years in between games has been horrible for the series. I know this is easer said than done of course.
It also doesn't help that one of their main development teams is locked away on the third FF7 remake game. I can't wait until they're freed to do something new. Don't get me wrong, I think Remake and Rebirth are very well made games on a technical level, Rebirth especially, but I think spreading FF7 into three games over the course of a decade is spreading the material too thin and it just feels like such an overindulgent/bloated project. I wish it had just been 2 games instead of 3 imo. (But that's a different discussion lol.)
I must admit when FF16 was announced I was hoping it would have the FF7 Remake combat system rather than a completely new one. Having played 16 I really felt it was a game that really understood what Final Fantasy was aside from the actual gameplay side. I think the 7 Remake style could have worked given you have characters like Jill, Cid and Torghal fighting alongside you but then the part where you are absorbing their powers along the way probably wouldn't have worked and the story is written with that gameplay in mind. I suppose the huge epic scale boss fights were awesome and the game I feel resonates with adult players more than younger ones because it shows a guy who was an optimistic youth have his future snuffed out but shows that you can fight to regain it and that its never too late to do so.
Let’s get an Ivalice based final fantasy mainline game. Add elements from balders gate 3 because that’s the most successful turn based rpg ever made, and from the grand father of all RPGs dungeons and dragons. Perhaps let people create there main character and go back to turn based combat but make it in depth with a job system like final fantasy tactics and final fantasy tactics advance..
I think this could win the series back with a great presentation, clean and well animated combat and a well executed story that may have branching options. Possibly bring back a world map with the possibility of customization Of an airship for your party. Make your companion characters original, memorable and dynamic! It can happen but they need the vision.
I would add that in context to the game I think using an airship for your party like the camping mechanic in balders gate 3 it would allow for further dialogue between characters and options of customization for their abilities, armor, weapons and overall skill sets while allowing you to cook and have different story elements.
A more refined take than final fantasy 15 with more in-depth character development. Also why the need for an airship would be the best possible way of travel because you can create open Hub zones that are explorable but allow different biomes and creatures, enemies, items, cultures, and story elements.
Hub zones should be fairly large, densely packed with different interactions, locations, cities, towns, villages, or forts, camps, castles, dungeons, ruins, and caves. Chance encounters with optional bosses, creatures, enemies, and day night cycles that mix up the gameplay and story elements. Add optional chance encounters with special hub zone specific characters, factions and groups. The possibilities of quest become varied and you can treasure hunt and dungeon crawl.
With the layered hub zones add replay value by having different outcomes, and different ways to approach it. Perhaps some encounters can be avoided, or some peaceful interactions can become violent through dialogue. Also add layers to puzzles within the environments themselves like disco Elysium, balders gate 3 and add hidden places like Elden ring or varied options to get to certain places with different characters.
Essentially you can tailor your party to the specific environment you’re going to encounter, with the idea of the job system. Also airship customization like Starfield or destiny would be awesome. When you travel maybe you get combat encounters with sky pirates or another kingdoms ships, dragons or other flying creatures.
But just imagine being able to fly across Ivalice, see places that may be famous or renowned in the Ivalice setting but in a different time. Also you can change the clothes of the characters to make it more personal and dynamic for the player and just overall add more validity and value to the items you find like in elders scrolls, Elden ring, or baldurs gate 3.
Also let’s give more dynamic dialogue with more mature talking points. If there’s mini games make them be able to be played either in the airship or the cities you go to. And less silliness and make it more refined and philosophical like final fantasy tactics. But that dynamic and unique party like final fantasy 7, and the refined return to turn based combat.
Let’s make the UI really beautiful and refined like persona or like path of exile or possible less intrusive like Elden ring but then very fluid and well designed like persona in combat and when your speaking to npcs.
I think there’s so many ways to refine and make final fantasy the best jrpg possible by adapting what it already did prior in other prolific entries to the series from the past but also learn from other legendary games as mentioned. Final fantasy already has all the features, aesthetics and lore to create a truly rich gaming experience.
I’m technically a lapsed fan. I was a huge fan from 7 to X-2 back in the day. 12 I liked but it started showing signs I wasn’t fond of and which 13 continued that unsatisfied feeling. And now with releases taking years and they do a lot I’m disinterested in. So of course my interest faded. Anything can happen though, like I really like Resident Evil but lost interest for years and now I’m back to being a big fan. So I can jump back in to FF but I need a reason too which isn’t there right now. If anything I’m more interested in going to the earlier games in the series vs the new stuff
If I was to choose only one battle system to go forward with it would definitely be the 7R trilogy’s. That being said after awhile it would become stale. So I’m also for innovation and change.
What I think they should do is perhaps have 3 combat styles that they alternate between. One can be the 7R style. The other can be the XVI style. The other can be an evolution of say the ATB approach to turn based combat.
Personally I think combat didn’t start to become fun until FFX and up. The pre-FFX battle system just got the job done. No way I would count any of them among my favorite battle systems. CT wasn’t a lot more fun than all of them and its ATB wasn’t surpassed until FFX-2’s battle system came along.
As for the series as a whole they need to prioritize the younger generation as the primary audience. Us millennials, the older gen Z, and younger gen X aren’t getting any younger. Some of us have other responsibilities so no way we should primarily be catered to if SE wants to grow the franchise.
I think today we can't have a really slow paced turn based rpg, it wouldn't work, my minds don't work as they used to. We don't have that much patience anymore because of the stimulation we have been getting and we would be bored af and drop it. So, they either develop their identity through the style final fantasy had and add visual and stylish elements like Persona or keep go with the approach of Final Fantasy VII Remake or Clair Obscur. I think Clair Obscur is going to be a turn based banger but it would be so obvious if Square copied that, so I think they should keep the best result of experimenting so far which is VII remake battle system. They sacrificed a looot of games from XII to XVI in search of this battle system and finally got it so I agree they should keep it as their identity moving on. Also, they did some things well in adding stuff on Rebirth but failed to improve on things like air combat, stun locking, adding too much synergy stuff (abilities on guard button). So what I meant was they need to improve on what they have but they have this tendency on pushing the bar way too hard every time even when they don't need to. In conclusion, I think they should build their identity now based on FFVII Remake combat system, improve on that, have some spice in each game but don't push too hard.
Uhhhh BG3
I definately disagree with you with time between releases being a major factor for people to lose interest in the series.
One of the chiefs of Rockstar Games spoke in an interveiw back in 2016. criticizing Disney's plan to release a New Star Wars every year will "wear off" any desire for fans for a Franchise while the long development cicles and wait for a new GTA is what makes the IP valuabe.
And as far as we know, It has worked pretty well for Rockstar and pretty bad for Disney. GTA being released every 6 years (well, now It's been 10) it's not just a matter of development cycle for such a huge game, but also a well tought out marketing strategy.
Meanwhile, I doo agree with most of your arguments. These games cost A LOT to make.
YES I AM AWARE that Rockstar is also guilty of the same sins when it comes to unnecessary spectacle features in their games like the dynamic horse balls.
And we can all agree that it's mostly unecessary. The amount of spectacle of FFXVI compared to the amount of actual GAMEPLAY in the game makes me wonder what the hell the non animation/cutscene team has been doing for this game throughout it's development cycle. (I haven't played VII remake/rebirth yet by my money is on the same amount).
Also, the trend chasing is a problem. I don't think there's anything wrong with the game leaving turn based mechanics, we've all grown up out of sticking com specific genres and playing diferent sort of games. And Final Fantasy has allways been a game we play for the story, not for the gameplay. It's combat system has allways been much more simples and intuitive than other JRPGs of the same era in which every game was released. BUT, Square seem to be chasing the WRONG trends and implementing them poorly.
We've seen lots of examples of Franchises that in order to appeal to a wider audience chase a trend and end up Alienating their fanbase.
Think games like Fallout 3 when it became first person or Splinter Cell Conviction leaving out the tactical slow pace aproach to a fast paced action shooter.
But when It comes to Final Fantasy, like you said: there is not a Tight Fanbase to alienate anymore with those changes.
When you talk in the video about how you felt while watching the FFXVI trailer, I felt diferent a bit diferent. I also come from a place where I felt disconected from the series - that I've grown out of it and It wasn't for me anymore. When the first trailer came out It all seemed too generic: "Oh, another Japanese RPG with prety bland stereotypes of medieval eaurope with absurdly white clean dresses walking on the mud without getting Dirty. HD Fire Emblem." But as they released new trailers and new story bits the interest growns.
And something that got me excited about this game is that It was the First Final Fantasy since XI (I dont'like MMOs either). that had a consisten development cycle from start to end.
XII had Yasume Matsuno's vision changed and then left mid development.
XIII and XV was this big ambicious megalomacianic project Fabula Nova Cristalis that never fully realized and chaged direction many times.
XIV launch was a disaster and they were able to fix later, so to MMO fans is a pretty decent game. Good fo You Guys.
As for Turn/base vs Real Time I overall think this is a fruitless discussion that doesn't really matter because if you look at other JRPG franchises, some have moved away from turn based, some have sticked to it like Persona, and other have been a mix of Real time with random encounters like the Tales Series and overall JRPG enjoyers play all of them.
I don't think there's any JRPG fan purist enought that would refuse to play any game that is not turn based. The combat system has to WORK in a satisfying way regardless. Most people who gave FFVII remake a try love the combat system.
I can see many flaws in XVI. The combat doesn't hold up for such a long game (and my experience with DMC and Platinum Games tell me It wouldn't hold up for 12 hours either), the exploration is basic, enemy variety is poor. Again: I can't think of where those 100 milion bucks went. But it's a game with an excelent story that Is far more into the Final Fantasy spectrum of story that a Game of Thrones one; despite being admitedly inspired by it)
I has identity of Final Fantasy in my mind
Is
"Hardcore fantasy with a single touch of Anime "
I miss those ps1 and 2 era where rpg like ff can come consistently....
The generation that looks at the PS3 as their childhood system never had a good Final Fantasy game to sink their teeth into. 12 tried to reinvent the wheel, and 13 (plus it’s stupid sequels) literally nearly killed the franchise. That same generation is grown now. FF has an identity with that generation and it’s not a good one. That’s their issue. They missed out on an entire generation of consumers.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I only skipped Rebirth and FF16 because they were on PS5. There just weren't enough PS5 exclusives games to justify the system for me. Plus PS5s were extremely hard to find for a long time. Now that FF16 is on PC I just bought it. I'm just waiting for Rebirth to be ported. I can't be the only one who was simply willing to wait for Square to port it.
Final Fantasy is not about being the same as the previous game. I love Final Fantasy because every title feels unique and special while remaining true to the universe as a whole (Crystals, Chocobos, Summons, Magic etc.) It's not for a small group of people (purists *cough*) but for everyone. Some people have their favourite titles, some people only love VI-X and some people love the series as a whole. And yes, some people even call XIII or XV their favourite and that's what Final Fantasy is all about - the journey and the feelings the different players get from the game.
There is no such thing as "FFVI is better than FFVII" or "How can you like FFXV?! The game is trash and has no turn-based combat and blah blah" - those are all personal opinions. We all have our individual feelings and memories about the games and, as stated above, that's why I love Final Fantasy so much.
So to answer your question: No, Final Fantasy doesn't have an identity crisis - YOU as a player decide which Final Fantasy you most IDENTIFY with.
So there is some truth to this, however there are other factors to consider. If we look at the Tales series or Persona series, they stay consistent with there games. They improve some aspects, but its for the most part the same game (dragon quest games too.) And people love it. We look at there sales, and it just consistently goes up. People feel safe knowing it will be a similar formula but improved upon.
Final fantasy isn't consistent, and as such, people dont feel safe trusting the brand. And look, people have there favorite persona games or there favorite tales games, while still keeping a strong foundation of a formula. But final fantasy takes very big risks. The gambit system in 12, paradigm system in 13, 15 and 16 action games, etc. People dont know what to expect, which makes having a stable trust in the brand feel unsafe. When people are asked what is Persona or Tales, easy answer. When people are asked what is final fantasy? Well...now its complicated. Which time period and which game, because there are very VERY different games.
This can have its positives and negatives, but I see why many agree this results in an identity crisis. Furthermore, we can indeed determine which games are better than others, but that requires proper analysis and critique. Saying a game is better or worse because its an action game isnt accurate criticism. That is opinion as you say. But saying a battle system is more refined than another is fair and accurate, provided they can back up what they say. Same with narrative implementation, or level design, etc. These are measurable and can be determined with proper analysis. Hell, my favorite is ff9, but I would argue ff6 is the best one. I love ff13, but I concede it isnt a very well done game. Gotta take personal bias out of the equation, which can be difficult for fans.
Overall, yes people will have there personal favorites. But the consistency being in such major flux (as well as implementation of other genres not being clean) absolutely plays a factor for general interest in the franchise. Veterans of the series dont feel safe trusting the brand, and newer players struggle to dive in. Just my perspective
Picking and choosing which games you like will no longer be an option if the series goes extinct. People are taking the series for granted at this point as if Square has unlimited money to spend and just keep cranking out AAA games when they don't sell. 2 to 3 million sales for your flagship entries isn't enough to keep the series alive in this day and age.
@@jesse1381 well said
@@jesse1381 I can certainly agree with this. However, SquareEnix really needs to get rid of the exclusivity. While I don't think this would immediately solve the sales problem, it would help A LOT. The more people who can play the game, the more people might recommend it.
If Final Fantasy went the way of Persona/Tales/DQ in your case, believe me, people would complain that it wasn't innovative enough, and if it tried to be innovative, they would complain that it wasn't the same as before.
The truth is, you really can't satisfy everyone when it comes to Final Fantasy. FFVIIR has phenomenal combat, but even that is not enough for the turn-based-purists. I absolutely loved FFXVI story but then again, people say it's a cutscene simulator. It's like playing every Final Fantasy before FFX and saying "there is too much text to read".
So it basically comes down to if you like it or not. Same with Resident Evil or Dark Souls for example: Some people only like certain titles, even though it's "basically the same".
Weird times, but I hope SquareEnix will manage to pull it off with the next title.
@@GodofGoblinsyou say this as if persona 1 and 2 duology aren’t entirely different then what came after them in gameplay department. The tales games also have wildly varying gameplay styles from entry to entry.
I like all the different styles of gameplay ):
they lose their identity cuz they depart fron their core turn based mechanic. Final Fantasy should not adapt action based systems from other games just to suit the trends and please new gamers. Diehard Og fans on the franchise majority of us want the old style turn based system with good graphics as not good back then. thats all what we want and dont do remakes and deviate the true story of the games narrative twisted to suit new audience. thats the major problem of square enix these days. they dont cater the wants of the OG Fans. foe example RE remake that game truly stands out remakes that true to the source material. adding like liza trevor to give more to the story. thats the way to do remakes. make better graphics and still grounded to its game mechanics and the original story.
Like Persona
Even the early games had different gameplay so I don’t get how this series has a identity crisis, I definitely wouldn’t compare the gameplay of ff1 to the class system of ff3 or even comparing the class system of 3 to that of 5s… people just like to complain or do people really think it has an identity crisis “BeCaUsE iTs NoT tUrN bAsEd”
I don't really mind changes in game play. What got me addicted to the FF series was the story telling and characters. Two aspects that have been lacking post-X. 16 was such a huge disappointment despite their story telling being strong in 14. It's just frustrating now to think it's been 23 years since X, 23 years of SE botching every single player story line.
I tell this to ppl time and time yet no one ever mention how FF story telling after X just went dowhill 😂
I agree. There is so much talk on the gameplay but for me it’s the plot and moreso the characters. 12 onward I find the character casts as a lot less interesting.
People don't look at the actual numbers when they talk sales too often and go with prevailing sentiments and soundbites which clouds their opinion.
When you hear P5 was a roaring success everywhere, what does that mean? Last figures I saw was in the realm of 8 mil. Oh but wait... that actually included everything before tactica, so vanilla, royal, strikers, and the dancing game. All. Which were released on absolutely everything.
Numbers for Rebirth are hush hush, but the numbers I saw for Remake were 'over 7 million'. I forgot to check if that was before or after the PC release that those numbers were released and not going back now.
They talk about Like A Dragon being so successful... and the 1 week figures theee were 1 million compared to FF16's 1 week of 3.
The comparisons you made are not reflective of the actual wording. They are reflective of how the news outlets framed these things, and also yes... how the companies did.
Atlus used to be so niche. P5 made them way more broadly known. And their budgets will be way smaller than a FFVIIR/RB. So even though that's across 4 games and included the dev to put those on everything, that's a big success to them. Like a Dragon... there's generally a lot of asset reuse in the Yakuza series, obviously that will have changed with needing to create combat from scratch and wildly new locations like Hawaii, but their 3rd as much one week sales was lauded compared to FF16's.
I just find it all... interesting.
Yep, ppl forget abt the market cap within the genre itself and how the market has shifted in the last 20years
Idk man I was very hyped for 16 and loved it and the Remakes ive loved so much aswell. I got into the franchise with 15 and I loved a lot about it, currently playing througg FF10, ive played others than the one mentioned, but I might be a very small minority that got so heavy into this franchise this late
Simply put: No it’s not. It’s ALWAYS changed its style and has NOT stayed in the same mold. For better or worse it’s going to continue to shapeshift.
it has always been turn based, 3 games that declined in popularity changes nothing
But it has never changed actual genres like 16 did when it decided to just not be an RPG.
One of the main people at square said something like "you can't do turn based with modern graphics" and they have just assumed this is true for decades now yet their sales are down. Instead of trying to think of a way to make a turn based game work with modern graphics, they just assume that they have to pivot to some devil may cry shit.
Jackass, if it wasn't for the hype associated with Ff7 from the Playstation 1 era, the Devil may cry franchise has a more profound legacy and absolutely wipes the floor with whatever Ff has to offer in terms of content, worlds and characters.. Idiots at capcom don't realize the golden egg they have in the form of dmc and keep churning out RE after RE...
Dante over any lazy ass ff character ever, including Cloud....
The whole "people are just not interested in Final fantasy anymore" argument and "games are not consistently coming out so people forget about the franchise" would be valid points if Final fantasy XIV wasn't such a popular game at the moment (well, maybe not that much since Dawntrail but still).
You say you didn't play XIV because you're not into MMOs, which is fair, but you can't discard the Final fantasy hype that built up for the past three or four years specifically because of XIV.
Lots and lots of streamers played older FFs because of XIV and tried both XVI and the remake trilogy because of it too. So, yeah, I'm not sure that point is as valid as it sounds. If anything, Final fantasy had a very strong reputation of good storytelling, great musics and incredible epicness when XVI came out.
The reason why XVI did not do as well as (they were) expected is because of XVI's own qualities or maybe lack of it. It just did not deliver despite its merits.
The game lacks interesting RPG elements that would make its gameplay loop appealing in the long run and doesn't exactly respect its players time with all these useless sidequests (that give you no real rewards since there aren't any RPG elements in the game in the first place).
Same goes for Rebirth but in a different way. Rebirth has a very enjoyable combat system that keeps the player interested for a long time but is overbloated with too much stuff. Makes the whole thing hard to digest in the end.
And then both games suffer from the very bad pacing of their stories.
If Square Enix want to make huge sales with their next FFs, I'm sorry to tell them there is no miracle recipe, but they probably should focus on making games the devs themselves would like to play and not games they think would appeal to most. That's the very basis of making great stuff.
On that note, a FF IX is a pretty bad idea even if the original game is pretty popular in the fanbase.
That being said, yeah, they should probably build around their action/ATB hybrid system for the time being to make all the next installments feel like they're part of the same franchise.
even 1 through 6 was different in most ways
In the great words of hirobobu sakaguchi-san, final fantasy is EVERYTHING and 7 rebirth delivers on that promise. Make a few games EXACTLY like that and the whole world will have no choice but to freak out 😂
I'm not saying I want FF to end, because why would I. But I am saying there does come a point where any long running series just gets so long, it sort of loses something and is never quite there again.
FF getting to 16 entries is wild. Imagining an FF 20 is ridiculous, almost comedic. I'd be here for it, but expecting it to remain as successful or for it to not lose key parts of itself, after all this time, it's just not realistic. Which isn't an excuse for anything, just an observation.
(at least FF still sort of resembles itself, other franchises I enjoy totally lost themselves. Halloween is a mess of constant reboots that each have almost nothing in common with the original 6 films at all. Doctor Who got rebooted in the 00s as essentially an entirely different concept and has just lost itself deeper and deeper down it's own arse, frankly. Castlevania got replaced by a series of generic anime pseudo jrpg metroid clones that were total messes despite being enjoyable and had nothing to do with Castlevania at all. list goes on.)
Problem with Final Fantasy is that they make too many games and this can be good if they branch off and make new content for each universe so that they can better capitalize on the benefits of each system for future game development. Like Elder Scrolls is pretty much the same game, just made dumber and dumber for future customers. Maybe not the best example.
No that is incorrect,
When dealing with large titles and licenses SE can buy the license to produce on UE4 it costs around a million or so upfront cost, but has no extra fees after that point on the sales of the game.
The stores do charge a fee like Epic game store - but if your game is made on UE then that cost is also reduced, and because they give a exclusive deal to Epic game store, that also reduces the loss margin in the sales price.
Rebirths costs would have been less than remake, and part 3 will be less than rebirth, when looking at it in a whole Remake profits made the money to fund the rest of the series.
what ever the other two games earn is the profits,
The former CEO was bad, and spent the budgets on nonsese games DEI and cash grabs I agree.
FF16 combat system will play nicely into Terranigma remake.
FF7r2 combat will probably be the future of Final fantasy.
My largest complaint about final fantasy is each one is completely different, they waste years creating new worlds new lore, and then throw it away and do it all again, it is the most mental way of doing things, each Final fantasy game is like creating a Epic world like baulders gate, or neverwinter, to put it in d&d terms,
Then they throw it away, what a waste.
I believe SE should be releasing Final Fantasys more often in the established worlds, so after 7 remakes, seaquils made in that world, using its machanics.
FF9 remake series would be turn based,
FF16 seaquils would be action based.
The teams within SE could then cycle the releases of games, if development time was 7 years, 3 teams could release a FF game every 2 years.
Each creative studio could work on 2 titles as well, 1 being a Final Fantasy the other being a passion project.
This would be to solve the burnout problem, and people leaving the teams.
Creative studio 3 would work on - Final Fantasy 14 & Terranigma
Creative studio 1 would work on - FF7r & FF6r - FF8r & FF10r 1/2/3 ( All following the same combat system )
Creative studio 2 would work on - KH4 - FF13 1/2/3 reimagined.
Creative studio 4 would work on - Past title remasters - porting & updating main titles to all platforms.
I had to double check to make sure my memory is correct, but I confirmed that Epic charges 5% royalty fees for any game made in the Unreal Engine after it's sold more than 1 million dollars.
Answer from googling the question: "Unreal Engine charges a 5% royalty fee to game developers and other users who distribute applications that incorporate Unreal Engine code if the lifetime gross revenue from that product exceeds $1 million USD. The first $1 million is royalty-exempt."
On top of that, Steam on the Playstation store both takes 30% for any game sold on their store, but you're right, Epic charges less and gives an even bigger discount for Unreal Engine titles sold on their store.
You are reminding me that I still want to finally finish playing through Terranigma one of these days. I've always loved the game, but I've started it over from the beginning like 5 times over the years because I kept losing my saves on emulators or wanted to refresh myself on the story and mechanics. I'd love to get a simple modernized port of that game on current gen systems and Steam.
Personally I love the FF games, I’m 34 and buy them day one… the one big thing that I’m noticing, is that it seems like FF games just aren’t bringing in a new audience, for whatever reasons. Whenever I ask my casual friends if they are going to try some of these awesome FF games, they end up just being confused by the series and why is there a 16 and 7 being released near the same time, why are the numbers 16 & 7, feeling like the series has past them by. I know that I’m not explaining it well enough, but imagine a casual trying to get interested. They’re just confused honestly.
Yeah, it is hard for me to fully understand why it isn't appealing as much to younger generations. I got my 13 year old nephew into OG FF7 a few years ago and he really liked it through to the end (using cheats in the modern version.)
It blows my mind that Remake just isn't holding his interest about 20 hours into the game. He doesn't seem to care about the excellent cutscenes or nuance to character interactions, story, and music, or the tactical aspects of battle. He gets tired of it after 15-20 minutes and surprisingly says he likes turn based better after also playing FF1 remasters for a few hours. He also said that he doesn't really enjoy finding new weapons / gear in either game or experimenting with materia. He loves Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft and Zelda though.
Edit: One other thing. It's always been rare for any of my friends to get into Final Fantasy going all the way back to my first in the series when I was 8 - FF4. So I guess this isn't a completely new phenomenon, but it felt like FF was gaining traction and popularity for a while. Now that they've nailed the formula with 7R, it feels like it's at risk of fading into obscurity again.
@@drumjod That's the reality of the new generation. They just don't care. The attention span and excitement to dive into an intricate story over 3 parts is just not there with them. They'd rather nope out
@@jesse1381 Agreed. I kept thinking as they get older it could appeal to them more, but as the years pass, it's feeling less likely. It's true that a lot of the younger generation grows up on games that give dopamine hits (rewards basically) really frequently to keep their attention and that seems to make the pacing we're used to less enjoyable for them.
You also made a good point regarding the numbered titles, I think there's a chance they could actually increase sales for new customers if they starting dropping the numbers (and the name remake) in the titles and just name the games something like: "Final Fantasy Subtitle." That would make it more clear to newcomers that they don't need any prior knowledge and they're not missing out on any previous games to fully enjoy it.
FFX was corny. FFXII could have been awesome but the suits wanted another X. Vagrant Story and the original FF tactics were the better direction to go at the time.
The maturity of VI and VII weren't really capitalized on and the series would do better to take a look back at those themes. XVI tried to tap into it but missed the mark in regard to the world exploration. Player controlled airships need to comeback as well as dungeon crawling and exploration in general.
I don't think any of this will happen and the series will eventually fadeaway.
Don’t really see why we’re supposed to give a shit how much these games sell or the ridiculous perception by non-fans that the games are having a “identity crisis,” it just seems like the old guard hates them trying new things and game development takes longer so no matter what they do they piss some old “super fans” off. We are not the company’s executives so it in no way affects us or matters to us as consumers what they make financially, I don’t see anyone discussing sales figures for any game series but final fantasy, I wonder why that is. This discourse that influencers are driving for engagement that the brand is failing or has an identity crisis will only drive the company to make more formulaic, derivative, and boring games.
I think most of the 'old guard' absolutely loves what 7R is doing, especially with the combat. I'm around the discussions in the community quite a bit, I've loved the series since FFIV when I was 8, and I think the new things they're doing with 7R are nailing it.
The reason that big fans care about sales is because number of sales will have an effect on what kind of Final Fantasy games we get in the future.
People want the devs to hear their feedback because we want them to know what we loved and what we didn't like as much. Of course, our feedback needs to be constructive and respectful for it to have any potential for a positive outcome.
To echo drumjod, Square Enix brings up sales for their games all the time. So it naturally becomes a talking point for fans. The FF series has been seeing declining sales for a bit now and in the gaming industry that can lead to a franchise being put on ice, sometimes temporarily and sometimes permanently. Like I mentioned in the video I just want to see this franchise be healthy and successful and I’m pretty much down for anything different for the franchise, but I can also acknowledge that from a gameplay perspective it is really difficult for newer or non fans to find something to attach to for the series.
So glad people are coming around to what I've been saying for years
Final Fantasy is having a quality crisis. They just make pretty otaku bait with no real depth on any level and it's gotten old.
Nah it's fine
Have u forgotten there is a game called FF14?
Identity Crisis? Yes. Do I still play them anyway? Yeah. Do I wish it would go back to ATB/Turn Based? All the time 😑
Nope. It's simply not producing great games. They need all the FF titles to be on par or above FF7RIBIRTH quality
Im not really a die hard fan of FF series but I played most of their titles except FF 1-4, FF11, FF14 and spinoff like world of FF and strangers of paradise but IMO i prefer the new dmc style FF. I really feel immersed in the gameplay and the story, it brings back the old FF I know of.
no its not, FF 6 is considered one of the best in the franchise, but its setting was completely diferent from any other before it, 7 went further, and so did 8. X which is highly beloved has nothing to do with any other in the franchise. same with 13 and 15. 11 and 14 were MMOs. and 16 is a return to the medieval setting last seen in 9, i would say 12, but then i remembered how its more of a magitech world, less european, and almost middle eastern, crusades era setting.
the only argument would be about the combat system. but to anyone who actually played the franchise, this is nothing new, since ff7 onwards, every game had massive core diferences to the games before when it came to combat.
even 5 ditched the traditional ATB system, for a grandia style CTB. and 12, while LOOKING action, is mostly a free movement, but still ATB based combat. using gambit so players could focus more on movement, and controling 1 character.
in many ways, the ff7 remake/rebirth, is a more modern take on that system, trading gambit, for more in battle control. which is specially important, since, one of the biggest complaints about 12 was how the gambit system trivialized the game, as you could just set it up to play itself with no need for any input of the player during combat. and that would arguebly be more effective, as there would be no reason to waste time with decision making in combat.
I felt nothing playing the end of FF7R and just mashed Tifas special move to get me to the end of the game.
FF7 Remake Trilogy is the way to go and the golden solution. It keeps the identity of what FF was and creates an UNIQUE system that blends perfectly Turn Based feeling strategy and Action focus games. I don't want to see FF copying Persona just because some fans wants turn based to be back. If FF does that then it's core identity will be gone. SE has the perfect evolution of their franchise right now in their hands with Remake/Rebirth/Part 3 not just with combat but the main thing that modern FF titles were missing was the Worldmap. The Worldmap in Rebirth is the evolution and the way to go for FF in the future.
FFX does not have a World Map
Cry more, apologist. FF rebootquel sucks and it's one game in 3 parts.
...Except that Rebirth is the worst-selling mainline FF game since FF2 in 1988. The amount of delusional takes in this comment section is off the charts
@@jesse1381 It's not even a game, just one thrid of an awful game.
@@renatoramos8834most people disagree
final fantasy Games never had the sane type of type of game since 1 through 6 there always been changing up how final fantasy is and each final fantasy games have records sales and the most brought version of final fantasy games are console noboby except streamer, content creators and people who have money buys pc games not many people have the money to buy a 400 to 2000 dollars video cards a few years and every new cards that comes video games companies want to and every new video games that comes out for the pc the video games companies what to use the new features of the card in there games
Analisando a série, ela é bem consistente na maioria das vezes, inclusive os spin of... Não consigo reconhecer essa crise de identidade na franquia e sim desculpa de quando os devs não sabem o que fazer direito.
People need to stop the bs around Turn Based, it’s been 20+ year without one. Deal with it. Persona is an exception. P3R didnt sold as much as P5/P5R and Yakuza the same. Turn based isn’t the solution but consistency yes
Now having a consistent core mechanics like the ATB from FF4 to FF9 it is something the series is lacking since FF10
Still you have the typical cicly: a FF game release and its hate, the previous one is magical good and the one previous is a somehow a masterpiece
Just take 7 Remake and Rebirth for the core mechanics for the following 2 mainline games
I would have bought a copy of ff7 if itwas available on pcc
Great video, although I disagree. What killed it for me was the FF remake padding and extra story. It was truly awful And personally I didn't like the battle system, I just used Tifas special move over and over to finish the game. SE (square?) was very innovative in the 90s and was at the forefront of ideas, but not anymore. I guess doing this now is ridicuously expensive. Persona gets it right and new FF is just a frankenstein of ideas. Also I won't engage with the new FF fandom as they are defensive and rabid as hell.
Personally im done with FF after FF7R trilogy. If they remaster the older games then ill be there for it. But FF16 was such a disappointment. I did not care about it. It tried too hard to be dark and edgy and the single playable protagonist sucked. If the game didnt have summons or a chocobo i wouldn't even tell if it was an FF game. The heavy hack and slash gameplay was too far a leap for me too. As disappointing as FF16 was it made me look back at FF15 more fondly and enjoy it for what it was. These days im more excited for games like the octopath traveler series. Those games are almost exactly like FF without the name. Im just done. After 7 remake pt3, im just done. The real last game in the series for me is FF15. Anything after that is irrelevant to me. With exception to remasters of older games however but thats it.
The series definitely has an identity crisis. Square Enix should just stop taking risks and just make good games just like what Team Asano (Developers of Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D Remake, and many more games), and the Dragon Quest team have been doing. Making great games that fans want and that stays true to their Japanese gameplay roots. This whole thing for the higher ups at Square (Nomura and Yoshi-P) of taking risks, chasing trends, westernizing their games, these ugly photorealistic graphics, them wanting to push the limits of technology, their insane development budgets, these unrealistic expectations, and them just milking FF7 is why Square is struggling and the games are failing. The reason for FF7R and FF16's failure is one because it's exclusive to PS. Square being yanked by the neck by Sony's dog leash every time. But also because they're not selling well in Japan and no one cares about FF and what the series has become. They keep catering to the wrong audience that don't even play those games. Not only that, but Square keeps ignoring Nintendo's success especially in Japan with the Switch. Square Enix should learn from developer MonolithSoft (Developers of Xenoblade).
PlayerEssence explained things in his recent video and he is absolutely right with what he was talking about.
No, it's just that SE refuses to make a real Final Fantasy game.
idk. XVI to me, was a superb game, a GOTY. I get quite bored by turn-based combat so this was right up my alley. The story, the characters - chefs kiss. The only thing that bothered me was how they ended it... I really hate these bs vaque endings where you can make up whatever you want to suit you fantasy. Dion deserved better, Clive and Jill deserved better, Joshua deserved better... other than that, both FFXVI and Rebirth were outstanding, both left me traumatized for weeks
Personally I think that newer fans are not getting into FF because many older fans are not doing a good job at welcoming them into the fold. We are terrible at making new fans feel like they can play these games and express their opinions without feeling judged and thus younger fans don't even bother to check out the franchise.
I have no proof that this is an issue but it is a gut feeling that I get interacting with new fans online
The people who grew up with Kingdom Hearts and new FF fans are rabid and toxic online and will argue about the colour of Tifas shoes, let alone the size of her chest.
se is just full of dmc fanboy now, they lost me at 15.
check out how yoshi-p answer any question about combat mechanics, to me they always feel sarcastic.
FF16 isnt even a FF game sadly.
TBH the only games that feels like FF games nowdays are the games that are created by CBU1. Because that is only team that has developers that were part of the old guard. I dont care what anybody is saying, FF13 series and the 7 Remake series still feel like FF games to me. FF12,FF15 and FF16 were made by completely different teams and wich is why they feel so different.
I think for the mainline titles I think they should stick with 1 gameplay style and develop new systems for it for each game (like the older games). And figure out a way so they can come out within 3-4 years for each title. I think FF7R combat has the most pontential out of the systems they have created so far to be the most versatile.
not a fan of this notion tbh. Final Fantasy has been about change for a very long time. If someone hasn't been able to come with grips to that at this point, that's on them. I hope to god Square doesn't listen to the tiresome old guard that keeps whining about action combat. You can play Pokemon if you want the same game over and over again.
Other things that could help with it's identity issue is having airship travel and combat that is a mix between Assassin's Creed and Kingdom Hearts Gummi Ship gameplay.