I'm glad you did a video on HEMA and got to do some sparring. I enjoy your videos showcasing Martial Arts that are not as well known and this was a good general representation of HEMA. It's been my hobby for 10 years, so I enjoy it when people make content that is minimally sensational and shows how fun and interesting it is. I hope you get to put on all the gear and fight with steel some day.
I notice the change of distance when adopting the Kali sticks. You began starting the exchange within the measure of the longsword rather than stepping into measure and then closing - cutting down the reach advantage of the longsword. (Both fighters are responsible for this - no shade thrown.)
In general: Am happy you did a video on my favourite hobby! In the video itself: It's telling that despite that you don't have prior HEMA experience, you still did very well in the sparring. Distance, timing, measure, and *the ability to squat and rise powerfully and at will* to make for great footwork are damn near king everywhere :D On kali two-weapons vs longsword: Online, there was a controversy based around HEMAists trashing the idea of fighting with two weapons at once. That got amended over time to two cutting weapons, then two long cutting weapons, because a HEMA manual was uncovered explicitly showing twin rapiers, and then exactly this - two short swords were shown to work *if your skill and coordination was godly and you trained it* !
I appreciate that as a shorter fencer he did exactly what he needed to do and stayed low while focusing on highguards. Made it hard for his opponent to do much. He was also smart to keep his guard unreadable when switching to two weapon fighting, he did well despite his weapons being shorter, lighter, and guardless.
@@micahthecomfortablehuman1324 I never looked up the specific style they mimic'd but it was when I first watched the training sequence in the first modern Zorro movie and saw the footwork pattern that I went "Hey now...." because I was well into FMA and Silat at the time. Granted geometry and physics is universal but the overlap was obvious . I think we all forget just how long humans have been fighting and would logically apply the same intelligence to it as we would to all other endeavors . I mean what good is being able to build bridges and castles if you can't defend them.
@@BradYaegerThe Zorro movie jumbled the two primary Spanish systems of Escrima Común and Verdadera Destreza together, but that's okay in my book because I train both and enjoy them. Escrima Común is definitely the one that influenced it. For starters, as the name implies, Escrima Común was favoured by the lower classes ever since Destreza made a splash after Carranza. Destreza shirks off-hand weapons and shields in favour of dynamic circular footwork and careful placement of angles and leverage with the sword alone. The Spanish sailors and settlers of the Philippines would probably predominantly practice Escrima Común, which is reflected in the fact that some people continue to call Kali "Esgrima". Destreza diestros explicitly refuted the term Escrima for their art, so if they had been the influence, it wouldn't be called that. Destreza was a rich man's style around the time the Philippines was colonized. In addition, the only book of Escrima Común (from Godinho) we have has chapters on espada y daga and duo espadas. For sword and dagger, it is unique in that Godinho recommends using the sword to entangle the enemy weapon and wound their arms with the dagger. And in the two swords, Godinho recommends whirling them with wide cuts to keep foes away from you. Now, I know for a fact that Kali predates Spanish colonialism of the region, so I am not at all suggesting that Escrima Común alone is the source of Kali's behaviors and techniques. Instead, I'm saying this to point out that Escrima and Kali are *compatible* with each other, and thus could have melded together far better than Destreza would.
Okay, we have to take into account that these are sparring weapons. If Kevin and his opponent were using real blades and no armor, would the techniques be the same? But, wow what a great comparison of techniques at the end! Awesome job everyone! Edit: Thanks for the explanations below. Hope I'm not coming off as critical or insulting of Kevin or his opponent. Both were cool. And Kevin's rapid attacks made me proud. Hope to see more FMA, HEMA, or other martial arts in the future!
Yes, they would be the same. In tournaments, going for the head and torso (fatal strikes in a real fight) is encouraged and rewards more points. So the training is the same.
There are some differences. The Nylon practice weapons they are using flex more and slide on each other more than steel weapons. Steel is more rigid and binds. This means that the weapons don't quite interact in the same way. Neither fighter can parry as effectively because the weapon can easily slide and free itself from the other weapon. Certain techniques such as deflecting the other person's blade by striking it don't work as well because of how much the nylon weapons flex, don't bind, then immediately return on line of attack. As for fighting with real weapons, this is very difficult to simulate. People behave differently and fence differently when there's something on the line. The best simulation I've seen is putting a high dollar buy in to a tournament where any touch puts you out immediately, and if fighters strike each other at the same time they both lose. Even very experienced and confident fencers fought very tentatively and conservatively.
@@mathhews95 I am personally on board with the movement in hema to consider ranking hand hits higher than we usually do for unarmoured fights. Hands are so fragile I personally see a hand hit as a seriously potential fight ender.
@@Jesse-b1vidk about scoring them higher but I just about got a knuckle broken a couple weeks ago doing single stick so I agree that they can be fight enders. At least, more often than not.
Oh it absolutely works. After a bit over a year of doing escrima I can also report that learning to coordinate two weapons properly is an insane amount of effort. My brain scrambles after an hour of training as if Id been trying to solve riddles nonstop. Kevin has demonstrated a ton of skill in this video.
Truth. ☝️ Both great comments. I will add that one of Japan's greatest swordman Myamoto Musashi, was a big promoter & example of the effectiveness of dual welding or fighting with 2 blades. Unlike many people in this modern age who say it doesn't work, Musashi had real life & death battlefield experience where his theories & ideas were rigorously tested.
If you look closer, the guy gets a number of cuts in. They're not all lethal by any means, but they would leave Kevin bleeding from a number of places, including the head. The speed is impressive and Kevin would most likely have beaten the guy if it was for real, but some of the damage he took would be pretty damn bad, simply because of the fact that the sword would actually be sharp. We'd be talking cut muscles and tendons, head wounds, cut hands... Also a sword cut to the hand/arm would make holding onto the stick a *_lot_* harder.
in transliterations to english the german ch sound is supposed to be shown as kh, but few people will know that so its not as helpful as it should be unfortunately
This is great 👍 I've been curious about how the styles of fighting would interact with each other! This might be further down the line, but if there's ever a chance, do you think you could spar with them again with kali/Filipino sparring-safe blades? Or some good stand-ins for them?
This is great. I actually joined the Saber Legion just so I could spar (most FMA guys in my area were not keen on sparring). I did find it challenging to use only 1 long weapon and the rules did not allow for checking with the other hand (both hands on the saber). One time the organizer let me use 2 short sabers against his one, long saber, and it did not go well for him. It just wasn’t fair for him.
Leg attacks are inherently risky and require set up. Generally attacks made against the legs require you to sacrifice your guard on your upper body and allow your opponent to attack your head. The distance between the two is also unequal, so the person attacking a leg without a set up is also attacking a target that is further away, while their opponent can strike their head which is closer. They just need to step back and attack the head when an attack comes for their leg. This shows up in almost every HEMA source about longswords and several historical manuals from Asia. There are ways to safely strike at the leg, but they almost all involve positioning and setups.
Your comment made me want to go through and tally up all the strikes to the legs. I only counted what seemed to be intentional. 5:59 6:25 8:32 9:44 10:09 10:20 11:19 11:24 12:09
I wonder how effective wing chun sword technics would do. Also, im interested in doing Wing chun but have no place around my area. Are there any online classes that are good that you know of?
@KevinLeeVlog im going to try one out. It's a month free trial type thing. I'll let you know if it's any good. I have done wing chun for about 2 years before i moved.... so i kinda know what to look for in a good program, but do you have any advice?
The HEMA guy clearly won big time. I don’t know what everyone is seeing in the comments by praising the stick fighting though the evidence is clear, but if this had been real, those sticks did nothing. The sword man did shoulder and kneecap damage. In the ancient era this would be a done deal. Good video Kevin but HEMA won. The first few shots to shoulder and kneecap would’ve already incapacitated you. After that, the guys were just being nice to you because you gave them a platform and held back.
@ no it’s not that. He got him in the shoulder swiftly and accurately, and then the kneecap? Game over. The rest is Kevin being hero worshiped. He’s great I love his show, but the truth is the truth.
As someone who's done hema for years, I don't think the hema guys did themselves any favours. The guy in the demo talks about hanging and winding, but in the sparring it's all jumpy, single-intent stuff. Then, longsword tends to fair poorly in asymmetrical match-ups, I think sword and buckler- or even better, messer and buckler- would have given a better showing against the paired weapons.
@joadams8022. It's the same with close range MA for self defense when it comes to sparring. Mainly it's for self defense & requires closing the distance.
@@MustAfaalik It's the opposite reason in hema- this is very tournament- focused to my eyes. For actual self defence, you'd want to manage the distance and control the other sword before closing in, rather than gambling on leaping in with one strike. The weird back-calf-parallel-to-the-floor is a tell- great for leaping in, not so good for moving around.
hey I am early! Hema will win depending on the wepon. If they only have a dagger they can be as good as they want but their chances are slim, a spear in the hands of a noob on the other hand can best almost everyone with just a bit of luck.
Nice video, it was worth the wait. If you're more interested in HEMA, check out the Battle of the Nations (the hema world championship), it's pretty interesting.
I'm sorry, but the Battle of Nations is not a Hema world championship. It is a world championship but not for Hema. It's the world championship for buhurt/hmb/Acl or Acs. It's two very different groups, with some tiny overlap. Just because they wear medieval armor doesn't mean they do Hema
Best thing i know of, is CombatCon, is a dynamic event that brings together newcomers, experts, and highly skilled professionals to learn, practice, and celebrate Western and European Martial Arts. Share knowledge across disciplines, pursue your passion, and find your next obsession with an inclusive community of students, instructors, fighters, and enthusiasts. Test your skills against combatants from around the world, study and train with leading experts, and immerse yourself in a weekend of fun, fighting and learning.
Other than Combat Con You probably only come in contact with in Czech and Slovakia, they are crazy and very diligent in HEMA things. It think even over 50 years of experience meanwhile. Their sword fighting is almost on another level, except that you cannot take your sword into the disco with you
What do you think?
I'm glad you did a video on HEMA and got to do some sparring. I enjoy your videos showcasing Martial Arts that are not as well known and this was a good general representation of HEMA. It's been my hobby for 10 years, so I enjoy it when people make content that is minimally sensational and shows how fun and interesting it is. I hope you get to put on all the gear and fight with steel some day.
Awesome! :-)
Is there any MA you're not great at?
I prefere Kali
I notice the change of distance when adopting the Kali sticks. You began starting the exchange within the measure of the longsword rather than stepping into measure and then closing - cutting down the reach advantage of the longsword.
(Both fighters are responsible for this - no shade thrown.)
In general: Am happy you did a video on my favourite hobby!
In the video itself: It's telling that despite that you don't have prior HEMA experience, you still did very well in the sparring. Distance, timing, measure, and *the ability to squat and rise powerfully and at will* to make for great footwork are damn near king everywhere :D
On kali two-weapons vs longsword: Online, there was a controversy based around HEMAists trashing the idea of fighting with two weapons at once. That got amended over time to two cutting weapons, then two long cutting weapons, because a HEMA manual was uncovered explicitly showing twin rapiers, and then exactly this - two short swords were shown to work *if your skill and coordination was godly and you trained it* !
Thank you for giving HEMA a platform.
It was fun!!!
this is what ive been waiting for ever since i discovered hema
I appreciate that as a shorter fencer he did exactly what he needed to do and stayed low while focusing on highguards. Made it hard for his opponent to do much. He was also smart to keep his guard unreadable when switching to two weapon fighting, he did well despite his weapons being shorter, lighter, and guardless.
He got soooooo many tags in with those kali sticks. It really did highlight the difference in approach to CQC with weapons.
What's cool is there are Spanish sword fighting influences in Kali
@@BradYaeger yesssss
@KevinLeeVlog you should try out Destreza to see those specific influences. Spanish Destreza is very different from the German and Italian styles.
For the Aramusha, they wield a set of such swords, using them in the infamous dual-blade style that only few can master.
@@micahthecomfortablehuman1324 I never looked up the specific style they mimic'd but it was when I first watched the training sequence in the first modern Zorro movie and saw the footwork pattern that I went "Hey now...." because I was well into FMA and Silat at the time. Granted geometry and physics is universal but the overlap was obvious . I think we all forget just how long humans have been fighting and would logically apply the same intelligence to it as we would to all other endeavors . I mean what good is being able to build bridges and castles if you can't defend them.
@@BradYaegerThe Zorro movie jumbled the two primary Spanish systems of Escrima Común and Verdadera Destreza together, but that's okay in my book because I train both and enjoy them.
Escrima Común is definitely the one that influenced it. For starters, as the name implies, Escrima Común was favoured by the lower classes ever since Destreza made a splash after Carranza. Destreza shirks off-hand weapons and shields in favour of dynamic circular footwork and careful placement of angles and leverage with the sword alone.
The Spanish sailors and settlers of the Philippines would probably predominantly practice Escrima Común, which is reflected in the fact that some people continue to call Kali "Esgrima". Destreza diestros explicitly refuted the term Escrima for their art, so if they had been the influence, it wouldn't be called that. Destreza was a rich man's style around the time the Philippines was colonized.
In addition, the only book of Escrima Común (from Godinho) we have has chapters on espada y daga and duo espadas. For sword and dagger, it is unique in that Godinho recommends using the sword to entangle the enemy weapon and wound their arms with the dagger. And in the two swords, Godinho recommends whirling them with wide cuts to keep foes away from you.
Now, I know for a fact that Kali predates Spanish colonialism of the region, so I am not at all suggesting that Escrima Común alone is the source of Kali's behaviors and techniques. Instead, I'm saying this to point out that Escrima and Kali are *compatible* with each other, and thus could have melded together far better than Destreza would.
Kevin you are awesome with weapons. Please do a video on escrima sticks
Hahaha. Thanks!
Great stuff
Entertaining & fun to see how much really goes into the art of sword fighting
@@spiffnut420 thank you!!
Okay, we have to take into account that these are sparring weapons. If Kevin and his opponent were using real blades and no armor, would the techniques be the same? But, wow what a great comparison of techniques at the end! Awesome job everyone!
Edit: Thanks for the explanations below. Hope I'm not coming off as critical or insulting of Kevin or his opponent. Both were cool. And Kevin's rapid attacks made me proud. Hope to see more FMA, HEMA, or other martial arts in the future!
Yes, they would be the same. In tournaments, going for the head and torso (fatal strikes in a real fight) is encouraged and rewards more points. So the training is the same.
There are some differences. The Nylon practice weapons they are using flex more and slide on each other more than steel weapons.
Steel is more rigid and binds. This means that the weapons don't quite interact in the same way. Neither fighter can parry as effectively because the weapon can easily slide and free itself from the other weapon. Certain techniques such as deflecting the other person's blade by striking it don't work as well because of how much the nylon weapons flex, don't bind, then immediately return on line of attack.
As for fighting with real weapons, this is very difficult to simulate. People behave differently and fence differently when there's something on the line. The best simulation I've seen is putting a high dollar buy in to a tournament where any touch puts you out immediately, and if fighters strike each other at the same time they both lose. Even very experienced and confident fencers fought very tentatively and conservatively.
@@mathhews95 I am personally on board with the movement in hema to consider ranking hand hits higher than we usually do for unarmoured fights. Hands are so fragile I personally see a hand hit as a seriously potential fight ender.
@@Jesse-b1vidk about scoring them higher but I just about got a knuckle
broken a couple weeks ago doing single stick so I agree that they can be fight enders. At least, more often than not.
Bro whoever said two weapon fighting didnt work was full of it. You were doing so much at once that the other guy couldn't keep up
Oh it absolutely works. After a bit over a year of doing escrima I can also report that learning to coordinate two weapons properly is an insane amount of effort. My brain scrambles after an hour of training as if Id been trying to solve riddles nonstop. Kevin has demonstrated a ton of skill in this video.
Truth. ☝️ Both great comments. I will add that one of Japan's greatest swordman Myamoto Musashi, was a big promoter & example of the effectiveness of dual welding or fighting with 2 blades. Unlike many people in this modern age who say it doesn't work, Musashi had real life & death battlefield experience where his theories & ideas were rigorously tested.
I don't think anyone said it doesn't work. It's just not optimal. Shields are just a better off hand weapon
If you look closer, the guy gets a number of cuts in. They're not all lethal by any means, but they would leave Kevin bleeding from a number of places, including the head.
The speed is impressive and Kevin would most likely have beaten the guy if it was for real, but some of the damage he took would be pretty damn bad, simply because of the fact that the sword would actually be sharp. We'd be talking cut muscles and tendons, head wounds, cut hands...
Also a sword cut to the hand/arm would make holding onto the stick a *_lot_* harder.
Dual welding has existed for centuries in every corner of the world
I trained Kali for 6 years, love it miss it….(train Jiu Jitsu & Muay Thai now) this was awesome…thx
Nice stuff as always!!
Thank you!
Impressed by Kevin, sincerely! sharp timing and mastery of movements, we want to see more sparring of him !
Thank you for watching!
that first sparing showcase was mighty impresive! real deal for sure
💯💯💯!!
That was an absolute treat to watch.
DURCHWINDEN MENTIONED LETS GOOO
Do a video of Silat and its techniques.
Yessss
That capture with the hilt is basically a kwan sao to lop sao. The principles are very wing chun-ish, they're just happening at different ranges.
Yesssss!
sword/HEMA youtube is going to spend the next two weeks reacting to this video lol
as a german this butchering of Vorn and Nach is excruciating it’s more like Fawn and Nagh, yet i don’t know how to describe the harsh german ch
in transliterations to english the german ch sound is supposed to be shown as kh, but few people will know that so its not as helpful as it should be unfortunately
This is great 👍 I've been curious about how the styles of fighting would interact with each other!
This might be further down the line, but if there's ever a chance, do you think you could spar with them again with kali/Filipino sparring-safe blades? Or some good stand-ins for them?
Respect for skills exhibited. Suggest tourniquet and emergency first aid practice at every training session. Great exercise! Positivity!
This is great. I actually joined the Saber Legion just so I could spar (most FMA guys in my area were not keen on sparring). I did find it challenging to use only 1 long weapon and the rules did not allow for checking with the other hand (both hands on the saber). One time the organizer let me use 2 short sabers against his one, long saber, and it did not go well for him. It just wasn’t fair for him.
Two weapons are always going to be better than one.
Kevin have you tried Hwa Rang Do yet? That could be an interesting video.
❤ great content 👌
Thank you!
Great video, it looks like fun! However, is there a reason why neither went for leg attacks?
Leg attacks are inherently risky and require set up. Generally attacks made against the legs require you to sacrifice your guard on your upper body and allow your opponent to attack your head. The distance between the two is also unequal, so the person attacking a leg without a set up is also attacking a target that is further away, while their opponent can strike their head which is closer. They just need to step back and attack the head when an attack comes for their leg. This shows up in almost every HEMA source about longswords and several historical manuals from Asia. There are ways to safely strike at the leg, but they almost all involve positioning and setups.
Your comment made me want to go through and tally up all the strikes to the legs. I only counted what seemed to be intentional.
5:59
6:25
8:32
9:44
10:09
10:20
11:19
11:24
12:09
Personally, I'm not running at anyone with a sword. And I've done modern Arnis.
😂 me too
Anyone know of a hema school in Tennessee
There’s one in East TN
I think there’s one in Johnson, TN but the biggest one is in Nashville.
There's one in Nashville, Knoxville and Johnson City. Chattanooga is going to have one soonish
I wonder how effective wing chun sword technics would do. Also, im interested in doing Wing chun but have no place around my area. Are there any online classes that are good that you know of?
I don’t unfortunately. But I think it would be fun to try out a Wing Chun sparring video!!
@KevinLeeVlog im going to try one out. It's a month free trial type thing. I'll let you know if it's any good. I have done wing chun for about 2 years before i moved.... so i kinda know what to look for in a good program, but do you have any advice?
nice
The HEMA guy clearly won big time. I don’t know what everyone is seeing in the comments by praising the stick fighting though the evidence is clear, but if this had been real, those sticks did nothing. The sword man did shoulder and kneecap damage. In the ancient era this would be a done deal. Good video Kevin but HEMA won. The first few shots to shoulder and kneecap would’ve already incapacitated you. After that, the guys were just being nice to you because you gave them a platform and held back.
some people just see what they want to see.
@ no it’s not that. He got him in the shoulder swiftly and accurately, and then the kneecap? Game over. The rest is Kevin being hero worshiped. He’s great I love his show, but the truth is the truth.
Now do it with steel
😂
Daredevil Vs. Jon Snow lol
Why so many wing chun guys also training kali?
I found it very similar to Wing Chun! Especially the close quarter stuff!
As someone who's done hema for years, I don't think the hema guys did themselves any favours. The guy in the demo talks about hanging and winding, but in the sparring it's all jumpy, single-intent stuff. Then, longsword tends to fair poorly in asymmetrical match-ups, I think sword and buckler- or even better, messer and buckler- would have given a better showing against the paired weapons.
@joadams8022. It's the same with close range MA for self defense when it comes to sparring. Mainly it's for self defense & requires closing the distance.
@@MustAfaalik It's the opposite reason in hema- this is very tournament- focused to my eyes. For actual self defence, you'd want to manage the distance and control the other sword before closing in, rather than gambling on leaping in with one strike.
The weird back-calf-parallel-to-the-floor is a tell- great for leaping in, not so good for moving around.
The ATL fencers did a bit of winded when paired with each other. I agree on your last point though.
hey I am early! Hema will win depending on the wepon. If they only have a dagger they can be as good as they want but their chances are slim, a spear in the hands of a noob on the other hand can best almost everyone with just a bit of luck.
Or simply a quarterstaff. It's a weapon that should not be underestimated.
Kevin you supprize me with your FMA skills , I though you was just a jkd and chunner guy
Nice video, it was worth the wait. If you're more interested in HEMA, check out the Battle of the Nations (the hema world championship), it's pretty interesting.
Thanks for the info!
I'm sorry, but the Battle of Nations is not a Hema world championship. It is a world championship but not for Hema. It's the world championship for buhurt/hmb/Acl or Acs. It's two very different groups, with some tiny overlap. Just because they wear medieval armor doesn't mean they do Hema
Battle of Nations is not HEMA
Best thing i know of, is CombatCon, is a dynamic event that brings together newcomers, experts, and highly skilled professionals to learn, practice, and celebrate Western and European Martial Arts. Share knowledge across disciplines, pursue your passion, and find your next obsession with an inclusive community of students, instructors, fighters, and enthusiasts. Test your skills against combatants from around the world, study and train with leading experts, and immerse yourself in a weekend of fun, fighting and learning.
Other than Combat Con You probably only come in contact with in Czech and Slovakia, they are crazy and very diligent in HEMA things. It think even over 50 years of experience meanwhile. Their sword fighting is almost on another level, except that you cannot take your sword into the disco with you
Dude who fought Kevin wasnt very good tbh, sorry but its true. Partially a strategy thing.
More than likely the Hema guy never encounter someone who uses two weapons with the speed, agility & fight IQ of Kevin's.
It’s partially a “you-don’t-know-what-you’re-looking-at” thing. Under a HEMA rule set the longsworder would have scored more points.
@@MustAfaalikyou can’t move steel weapons that fast.