“Gurney says there’s no artistry in killing with the tip, that it should be done with the edge.” “Gurney’s a romantic,” the Duke growled. This talk of killing suddenly disturbed him, coming from his son. “I’d sooner you never had to kill…but if the need arises, you do it however you can-tip or edge.” “Gurney Halleck’s words were there to remember: “The good knife fighter thinks on point and blade and shearing-guard simultaneously. The point can also cut; the blade can also stab; the shearing-guard can also trap your opponent’s blade.”” “Killing with the point lacks artistry,” Idaho had once told Paul, “but don’t let that hold your hand when the opening presents itself."
Quoting to explain ftw. Also needed to mention that they stripped the suits before the flight to avoid wasting valuable suits. Both the training and that detail would've made the slashing make full sense
All groovy till someone slits your tendons causing you to drop your weapon. Great thing about Dune is that melee makes perfect sense in the lore. I wish all movies used armor or a shield, or regeneration. Something to give reasons on why heroes are avoiding death instead of giving the enemy Storm Trooper aim. Even John Wick
@@dianapennepacker6854 that's why we wear protective layers, though. Dune's melee makes sense... but the rest of the lore about the shields causing a nuclear explosion? Absurd. Sounds like the worst engineering oversight ever, or a really idiotic way to make a sci-fi novel into a fantasy novel.
In the first fight they probably also tried to take Paul's shield training into account. In the book it's mentioned that he often slows down his attacks, as you have to when fighting shields, but that's interpreted by the fremen as cruely "toying"
I thought of it more as showing that when push came to shove, Paul was a VASTLY superior fighter than his opponent, to the point that he COULD essentially play patty cakes with him. E.g. if I, someone who has zero experience, were to spar with Matt, I'd honestly be surprised if the skill gap wouldn't allow Matt to play sticky hands with me. And, again the way I'm interpreting it, it also explains why Paul was so reluctant to actually kill him, because Paul didn't see it as anything even remotely close to being a fair fight. He didn't end the fight until Stilgar points out that there is only one way to end the fight and that Paul should stop toying with him.
@MrMartinSchou maybe that's the intention in the movie, which I actually haven't seen yet. In the books (if I remember correctly, it's been a while) we see the scene through the eyes of Paul's mother. And for one she's not sure if he actually is capable of killing someone (as it is his very first real fight) and she's seeing that he attacks as his opponent if wearing a shield (which is what he was training to do)
They explicitly didn't in the movie for this fight. The whole arc of Paul getting a little too cocky after the fight and a little too comfortable with killing someone never shows up in the film. He's just kinda portrayed as scared and wimpy at this point. Good movies overall, but they definitely took a lot of liberties with Paul's character and development.
It may have already been said, but I think one of the really excellent things about the Paul v Feyd duel is how their family lines and personalities show through. Feyd has likely never truly fought a capable opponent in a fair fight - he has trained with great fighters but only fought in rigged gladiatorial combat. So his fighting style is flashy and showy - I think this is why they have him doing big slashes and thrusts; it looks good from a distance even if it's dangerous in a real fight. When he has Paul at his mercy he chooses to draw the moment out, and savour it, because he is a sadistic psychopath. Paul has been fighting for his life all day, and is likely exhausted, so he's sloppier than we see him when training or fighting Jamis. He does something Feyd is likely psychologically incapable of doing, which is willingly take a blade to win the fight. He was taught a noble method was best, but to win at any cost when it came to it. A major theme in the book is also the animals vs humans conjecture; the Harkonnens are held up as examples of people incapable of restraining their animal nature. We see this with Feyd - he shouts, gets angry, gets frustrated when it's not an easy victory, makes mistakes as a result. Paul is silent the whole fight, because he is a human, capable of putting his base instincts aside. That they choreographed these deeper themes into this fight is, in my opinion, brilliant.
@@JeshuaHicksAuthorIts not just there. Its extremely obvious in Vladimir Harkonnen, who is so impulsive, hos eating disorder made him so big, he cant move anymore.
Just a note, on the second fight's ending, Paul allows the second blade to plunge into his shoulder, at the same time retrieving the other blade from his body and using it to stab the guy. He doesn't divert the blade back.
one detail in the book i like with the Jamis duel, is Paul takes a bit of time to get used to fight against an unshielded opponent, he is really fast on the defence but keeps missing Jamis because he slows to account for the shield that's not there.
If you were deep in the desert away from sietch, a cut up stillsuit, while not immediately lethal, would mean a slow death unless you could repair your stillsuite... So, cuts on Arrakis could have consequences not seen here on Earth.
I had never realised this before, but I don't think the fight ends the way you say it does. Feyd stabs Paul in Paul's left side with his own knife, and then tries to stab him. Paul grabs the blade with his right hand, and then redirects it. But we see after this that Paul's left hand has stabbed Feyd with Paul's Knife (the one that was in his own side) And afterwards we see Paul draw Feyd's knife out of his own right shoulder. So Paul redirected Feyd's knife into his shoulder with his right hand while drawing out the knife in his own side and stabbing Feyd with the left.
Yep this was always my interpretation as well. Paul's initial stab wound is to his left torso. When Feyd falls away, Paul has a knife in his left hand, and is stabbed in the right shoulder. There is no knife in his torso. So Paul allowed Feyd to stab him in the shoulder/chest and used that moment to take his own knife from his belly and to stab Feyd with it.
Yep I had to go look at it in the 4k short to verify what you said but you are absolutely right.. he redirected Feyds back into Feyd and stabbed him with his own knife with his other hand at the same time.
I think here we see the story telling in action, Feyd's cruelty, wanting to prolong the fight and torture Paul with the "inevitable" outcome, is the very thing which gives Paul the opening to end the fight and fits the story-telling very well.
Matt great breakdown as always. "Defanging the snake" is the #1 goal in Filipino Kali. You slash at the hand, wrist and forearm constantly and if you can trap the opponent's arm for a split second the knife should already be there for the disabling cut. They didn't employ this strategy at all. As far as their stance goes I've been taught to stay light on your toes, circling your opponent, moving in and out and leading only with the point of the blade. Not bending over, leading with your head, your empty hand or your leg. Always keeping the pointy end pointed at your opponent assures that if they rush you they'll impale themselves. One more thing they didn't address because no one got cut, is that any type of cut causes the body to go into shock and with each slice the the brain of the injured person slows them down and likely make them pass out.
The choreo Roger Yuan worked into the Dune films has been, in my opinion, some of the very best in film history, and I’m very thankful he had a director with the restraint to not ruin it with shaky cam and cutting.
In the books we see swords and knives used commonly on Arrakis bc shields couldn’t be used, as they would call the worms and send them into a frenzy. Additionally shooting laser based weapons and shields caused a type of nuclear explosion, so we don’t see lasers being used where someone could potentially have a shield. Dart guns and rifles were common in the books. The Atreides soldiers carried Kindjals and push daggers a lot IIRC, where the Harkonens tended to carry longer swords and blunt force weapons. Duncan Idaho is a Ginaz swordmaster too, it was a cool bit of lore when they showed Duncan fighting against Sardaukar troops, as the Ginaz would be some of the few who could stand up to them and win.
Great breakdown, Matt. I just want to mention a mistake though. The camerawork makes it hard to tell, but the second fight ends with Paul pulling the crysknife from his own body "undercamera" and stabbing Feyd with it, while Feyd is completely focused on stabbing what ends up being Paul's shoulder. If you look at the still from 33:38, you can see the handle in Paul's hand isn't that of the Emperor's dagger. It's more clear in the full clip: when Paul pulls the knife from Feyd's body, you can see the Emperor's blade still in Paul's shoulder.
@@camsy83 Yeah, although I can't fault anybody for missing it. I think it's a small lapse in what is otherwise very good cinematography. I couldn't tell for sure what had happened the first time I saw it. And after I read Matt's description, I had to watch the full scene again just to make sure I wasn't wrong.
Yeah that's what I thought when I saw it too... Paul got 2 injuries. One in the belly from first time and one in the shoulder in the last, he deflected it to the shoulder then what would have been his chest.
With regard to the "sticky hands drill" (~12:00)... one thing to remember is that this is Paul's first actual fight, so him doing things that are like drills would be reasonable
I think the fact it looks like training is also by design. Once paul has jannis figured out, he's not even close to being able to land a strike anymore. Making it look like training shows how outclassed jannis is.
@@russellstephens3580 And Jannis is just acting on rage and arrogance, assuming he can out maneuver Paul without being as defensive as he should have been.
@@russellstephens3580 It could be, I remember in the book the Fremen were slightly disgusted that it appeared that Paul was toying with Janis. Paul had only ever fought with shields though, so it looked like he was pulling his strikes and playing with his prey, when in fact he had no idea how to actually go in for killing strikes.
4:30 Yes and no, against Fremen, a slice on the stillsuit can be just as deadly as actually penetrating the skin, since the stillsuits regulate water and without a fully functioning stillsuit you'll be dead from dehydration in a short span of time, unless you have friends nearby with reserves. I'd imagine on Arrakis, the Fremen would have learned how to target the weak points in the stillsuit just as much as how to actually hurt the person inside.
In the book, they fight without suits. To protect them from harm, being that the suit is more important than the person who is currently using it. Fremen are very pragmatic.
I also think some of Fyde's slashes instead of stabs can be explained by the fact that the character belives he is a better fighter. He wants to draw the fight out and savor the kill. Plus, although he has combat experince, but he also fought alot of slaves in the arena. I think his fighting style reflects that.
Feyd is inherently cocky and fights like it, to the point where in the book and the David Lynch movie when he realises Paul is a better fighter and is winning the fight, Feyd tries to cheat and use a hidden blade in his suit to stab Paul.
Slaves and drugged Attreides with only half-shields and basically naked. Then it was that one Attreides who wasn't drugged properly (in the movie it's the Baron testing him, in the book it's more likely political infighting in the wider family just below the Baron, maybe even Rabban or Piter behind it.
One thing about the fighting at 10:35 to 10:58 is that every pause Paul had a killing blow whether it was a stab to a kidney, a slash to the neck, or a stab under the arm to the lung. So yeah it looked to us like it was just theatre patty cake, the reality was it was Paul demonstrating his superiority to Jamis also hence Stilgars question to Jessica if Paul was toying with him.
In the book is it also noted that Paul was trained to fight shielded opponents. His pause before the killing blow was more because his training was instinctive to pause and slow down the attack to get past the shield.
@@DanielMcGillis-f3w this is the correct detail. it was specifically noted in the book that slowing to defeat the shield was what made it look like Paul was toying with Jamis.
I'm glad you mentioned the head being vulnerable because I was going to bring up the fact that most of the slashes and cuts were at the head and throat and that can be very. effective
When I worked in the ER we saw a fair number of hand wounds when someone using a guardless knife, stabbed another person, hit bone, and the hand rode up onto the blade causing nasty wounds to the palm or fingers.
Trained for awhile with a martial scool in Rome thats been around since 1500's and was the last school to organize knife duels in the 1950s, they still train military personnel in knife combat. In both single hand and second hand duels the first rule of knife fighting NO SLASHING. Second rule was DISTANCE, a grapple or close contact almost always ended the duel on the leave. Third rule was dodge not block and keep oval pattern footwork.
You mentioned wanting to get up off the ground in a knife fight. While I would generally agree, I recently say a show where they tested various martial artists in various scenarios. The defend against a knife attack scenario was very interesting. Most failed rather spectacularly. One fellow did simply drop to his back and defended himself with his feet. Thus preventing fatal cuts to his torso. This was a timed trial, and only the attacker had the knife, but I thought quite an interesting result. It was in the second season of the show Ultimate Self-Defense Championship. Worth a watch.
That show didn't consider cuts or stabs to the legs. Nice shirts but nothing for the legs. They even had to think for a while before considering a face/eye stab an stopping wound. That's a nice show, improving every season. Pulling guard against an standing knife armed opponent is silly. Both statements are true and not conflicting against each other.
I never really understood the never go to the ground mantra. It’s a bit like saying never get punched or never get stabbed. You don’t always have a choice.
It ignored the most fatal cut and that is the femoral artery. You will die in seconds. Staying on your back and giving the attacker that target as a gift is very, very foolish
11:33 i think that is or is supposed to be an indication that jamis have already lost his shit and basically accepted his fate in a sense, there's no will to fight in him any more
yes, and wanted to add it shows Jamis has depleted moves Paul does not have a response to. It looks rote because the fight is done and there is nothing more to say. The dialogue is over
You comment about both getting stabbed reminds me of a warning from an instructor: The loser of a knife fight dies in the street The winner dies in the hospital
As some one whom got stabbed in the hand, and had the artery in it severed. I understand that mentallity. I was lucky i managed to get to the hospital as fast as I did. I lost a LOT of blood, enough to start having tunnel vision and starting to feel faint. So stabb wounds or just even hand wounds can be extremely dangerous. especially towards the wrist in the area of the pinkyfinger in the palm. just slightly abow the ball there. It happened about 7 years ago. my hand still hurts from that day. Don't ever get stabbed in the hand. -10.000.000/10 would not recommend the experience.
Is there anything to the thought that a reason why there is so much slashing is, yes, it looks more dramatic, but also is far less likely to end up in a serous injury if a choreography mistake is made? I’d think even prop weapons jabbed in a vulnerable spot could be quite painful, damaging or even deadly.
I have heard that's a concern - a retracting prop knife that jams and fails to retract is suddenly a real threat of impaling someone, while a slash with a dull blade might score the skin, but isn't going to kill someone.
If I was about to have a knife shoved through my face and the only way to stop it was to grab the blade, _I would grab the blade._ It isn't a lightsaber, it wouldn't vaporize my hand. Especially if I was wearing gloves like Paul here, the blade didn't even cut him.
I worked with a Vietnam War vet and he had a nasty scar on the palm of his left hand. He got it when an enemy charged out of the bush with his bayonet and all the guy had time to do was grab it and hold on long enough to get his own knife out and end the fight.
Cool fights, looks like the main character definitely could of used some lighter shoes, and had his hands a little lower in his starting stance at 17:30 with a little more movement if we're gonna go snake style instead of fencing style with knives though? Or at least like your about to kick him in the face in a higher stance or back up easier myself, and probably not a 90° right and left foot orientation in my fencing stance either like karate or even after doing a knifehand block first I think? As snake would obviously be too fast with a lighter slash to his outstretched fencing wrist from a low dart and half cutting his hand off with my tantos though? And try not to run at the guy with a shank at his side and then get chased with your backturned like that prison video, and circle to the right and offside and then back and confuse the opponent, or catch the wrist and bringing the arm behind the back can be good with some backhands sometimes?
Think about it. Grabbing a knife is the worse thing to do. You would grab or trap the arm or wrist holding the knife, block or push away the arm or the wrist, or get out of the way of the blade. Despite what you see in films, most knives will disable hands and fingers if you grab them with bare hands. and if you're fighting southpaw, where the opponent's knife is on the same side as yours means you're at an immediate disadvantage. Grabbing the knife is the last thing you should do.
Fun fact; "May your knife chip and shatter" is them saying "May you die", because a crys-knife is kept sharp and durable by being kept near your body's electrical field according to Dune Lore. A crys-knife kept near your body won't chip or shatter, because a sandworm consumes a lot of rock, and their teeth are thus made to eat rocks, very hard to break.
@@MrBlaktoe I forget if it's after hearing Jamis's curse, but I remember Paul considers that. The line is something like "...he didn't know the breaking [tension?] of this blade, didn't even know if it *could* be broken". Can't remember if they said breaking strength/tension/strain/point; I think ultimate breaking strain is what real-life nerds say.
11:00 I don't think this is a fair criticism. The point of that exchange is that Paul keeps going for a killing blow and stopping intentionally and Jamis is stopping because he can't comprehend why Paul hasn't killed him (and then grows with rage each time because he thinks he's being made fun of). So this ''sticky-hands'' type of exchange is completely intentional on Paul's part and unintentional (and infuriating) for Jamis.
the point in the books is that Paul is conditioned to fighting with the shield which will deflect anything that comes in faster than its setting - so paul's strikes are slower than the Fremen would strike; as they don't use shields.
@@n0tthemessiah Paul never stops mid strike and says, "oh, gee willikers mr Jamis.I could kill you right now, but I'm hesitating" either. the practice session with gurney sets up how paul has been trained to fight with personal shields. Jessica also sets up that it is his first fight to the death.
Also. Paul pulled his own knife out of himself to stab Feyd. Fred's knife doesn't get deflected and Paul pulls it out of himself after Feyd collapses. Edit: I meant Feyd not Fred, but it's too funny to change.
Just as a random note. In the fight with Feyd Rautha, i'm pretty sure Paul pulls the knife from his own stomach and uses that to finish off Feyd after diverting the dagger in his right hand. As you can see the final knife is in his left hand. Anyway just thought it would be a helpful FYI :) Edit : After re-watching i'm now 100% sure on this. Matt if you see this, are there any documented events of individuals pulling blades from their body to dispatch an opponent?
There's a quote from Dune I've always loved: _The edge can also stab, the tip can also cut and the guard can sometimes catch the blade._ Maybe that's why I LOVED that scene from Gladiator so very much!!! The one where Maximus says "The frost! Sometimes it makes the blade stick!" then he hacks the face off a Praetorian... I guess the bit "...sometimes catch the blade" and "Sometimes it makes the blade stick" are similar enough that it triggered my nostalgia.
OLDBOY. It has the only scene I've ever seen depicting one guy taking on 10 or so at the same time that was even remotely believable. So, Mr. Easton, I would love your opinion on the famous hallway fight scene and the hero's tactical use of, well, a framing hammer.
Yes! That hallway fight is incredible (and was used as the basis for one of the coolest setpieces in Sifu, which is a game made of amazing setpiece fights).
@a-blivvy-yus hell yea. I just love how the scene was shot at such a flat straight angle to that hallway.. that director really wanted to make the scene plausible and pulled it off as far as I'm concerned
Framing hammers are a hell of a weapon. Think short war hammer. Side note: a lot of bikers have cut down ball pein hammers that they use for working on their bikes and just happen to forget and leave in their pockets. Better weapon than most knives.
I've been watching your channel for a couple of years now, and this is why I love it. When you analyze movie/tv fights you give the nitty gritty fight and technique analysis, and wether or not its realistic or effective. But you have tremendous respect for the art and craft of fight choreography and the cinematic effect. Its always enlightening, never pedantic. Love it.
Dune is one of my very favorite books! One thing to note: Paul Muad'Dib is fully immersed in Fremen culture during his duel with Feyd Rautha. He fights alongside the Fedaykin. Herbert based the Fremen on Bedouin, and while there were certain artistic licenses taken for dramatic on-screen effect, I wonder how Arab fighting styles might be represented.
Great video as always! I’d love to see you review the fight between Peter and Miraz in Prince Caspian! There’s some really cool (and some really frustrating) stuff about fighting in armor, and I think it would be a really interesting discussion!
I do really enjoy you’re film fight breakdowns. And I’d certainly like to see more. Rob Roy is one of my favourite. Couple others to recommend The Mark of Zorro (Tyrone Powers/Basil Rathbone) The Duelists (Harvey Keital/Keith Carridine) The Deluge (Daniel Olbrychski/Tadeusz Łomnicki) Scaramouche (Stewart Granger/Mel Ferrer)
Great video! I quite like the way Paul moved in that second duel, especially things like that corkscrew flip he did. The thing with Paul is that he's a very skilled practitioner of Prana Bindu, so he has not only great strength and agility but also a superhuman level of control over his body. So movements and tactics that a normal person might not want to risk are fairly easy for him to pull off, and I like how that aspect seems to have been represented. I've done a similar defensive kick out of reflex before, and have seen the concept in at least one historical source, so it's viable.
To your point, he comes out of the corkscrew flip with a slash to Feyd's Achilles tendon. Some movies would choreograph it as just a flashy dodge, like Ray Park does in The Phantom Menace, but here he uses it to dodge _and_ attack. It actually looks choreographed _too well,_ because Butler is a bit late in reacting to the slash.
28:00 Matt, wouldn't this particular case be a ligadura mezana? (or a middle / standing kimura) I think a ligadura sotana would need to have the hands under the shoulder?
@16:30: a pinched scabbard will hold a blade quite well; something with inserts to pinch the blade, or squeezed/strapped sides. A note: This is supposed to take place like 100,000 years into the future; AI is banned, but the Ixians were creating ALL SORTS of technology...the movie didn't convey just how nanotech that universe was. A second note: The Atreides military had one of the most extensive libraries of military history in the Empire, and Paul was trained from a very young age on the etiquette, technique, and efficacy of almost every era of war, all the way back to Earth.
Come on, Matt, killing with the point lacks artistry! (It's a book reference, not actual criticism, I'm enjoying the video and learning stuff from it, as usual.)
@@BakunauaX2435 Gurney, one of the characters and a weapons master, thinks slashes are more 'romantic' than stabs. It makes enough sense- slashes are more dramatic and cool looking than an efficient, no nonsense shank. Its partly to characterise that he's a warrior, but also an artist.
I was training in the Inosanto system back in the 90’s. And we were told there is a difference between “slash” and “cutting” with a blade. We were also taught how to “thrust slash” using the point of the knife. Practicing the angle drills.
In the book, and the miniseries, Paul and Jamis fought in a sealed chamber with stilsuits removed. Also, in the book, it is mentioned that the nerve root of the tooth leaves a hollow track from the tip and is typically filled with poison. Jessica caught on to this with Mapes when presented with her knife, as it needed to be blooded before resheathing, and at first had the point going in for the cut, but Mapes gave a sign that Jessica's training caught and then turned it to the edge. Which made Mapes believe even more in the prophecy. They really underutilized the use of poisons in the movies. In the books, they're are so much more uses. Like Paul getting stabbed in Part 2 by Feyd, that didn't happen in the book, and the gladiator scene earlier explained that Feyd uses a poisoned blade, and in Part 2 Feyd uses his own dagger, not the Emperor's.
@@Laarye just one correction; Feyd did use the Emperor’s knife, but he had a hidden poison needle or small blade built into his suit. That he could deploy when needed.
@ In the book he tried to use the needle, but he failed and Paul turned him around sort of flipping him onto the ground stabbing his crysknife under his chin into his brain, killing Feyd.
Hey Matt, thanks for doing this breakdown, loved it (as much as the movie). I am a BJJ practitioner and realize the limits of the art, pretty sure all of us do (and they cross-train). I also did HEMA fencing before. The "kick" to the overarm (or the shoulder for the matter) is a thing we do a lot, it is a part of techniques and we learn to do it consistently, i find it perfectly plausible. Also the arm twists are correct imo. I'd do some rolls too :D to retreat or attack from below but would be comical XD Cant wait to try some of these in the summer with my HEMA friends.
Loved the fights in Dune. If you ask me, they found a very good balance between realism/authenticity and more theatrical moves / making things slow enough so the typical audience can mostly tell what's going on.
VIDEO SUGGESTIONS: Great stuff as always Matt. Three other suggestions for reviews/fight breakdowns: 1. Black Death - Eddie Redmayne & Sean Bean in a plauge/witchcraft film. Is any of the combat (or weapons) realistic or worthy of note? 2. The Duellists - You did a review about 8 or so years ago. Time for an update on this great 1977 Ridley Scott films? 3. Robin of Sherwood - part of my childhood and a bit of fun
Suggestion: please review the shorter fights in Scaramouche. They're textbook fencing, and there's also some interesting training methods featured in there.
Fun tidbit: if you go frame by frame during the sequence where Paul gets stabbed with his own blade, you’ll see during the standup grappling portion that Paul actually is about to lock Feyd’s arm before Paul’s left hand mysteriously withdraws until he gets stabbed with his own blade. Its blink and you’ll miss it, but for the sake of choreography, Timothy had to give up the superior position and totally withdraw his left arm for no reason to make the redirect and stab possible 😂
Something you probably haven't considered in the analysis is that crysknives are much sharper than any modern day blade in existence, able to cut through even protective gear with a slashing cut. Crysknives are functionally different from the kindjals used by the soldiers of the Imperium, which are purposed for shield fighting. A shorter blade was sometimes used in accompaniment with the kindjal, called a slip-tip, which was often poisoned.
This knife pairing is seen in Feyd's gladiator set presented to him. I'm pretty certain in the book they talk about one or both of the knives being poisoned.
@@pork-the-fork In the novel, Feyd-Rautha 'borrows' his knife from the Emperor because the blade is coated with a soporific that is supposed to slow down the victim and essentially soften him up without making it too obvious that poison is being used. It's a nice, dastardly touch that (IIRC) is missing from not only Villeneuve's movie but also Lynch's.
Just the fact that the blades don't make an audible ringing or swishing noise with every move was a great improvement compared to the usual hollywood knife fight/attack scenes. The scenes were appropriately suspenseful and dramatic. Fit the tone of the movies very well.
A Balintawak guy here, yeah for cinematic purposes they used more slashes than thrusting... which we do have and which I would be using more in such a situation. And no attempts at intercepting incoming attacks, blade vs wrist, etc. But I really liked the intricacies of their choreo with the very active checking hand due to Balintawak
Besides fight choreography reasons, the use of the edge over the point could be cultural based on the novel. In the high culture of the Imperium the use of the point is considered crude, the edge artful - a detail Frank Herbert borrowed from the fighting practices of the Caucasus as described in Sabres of Paradise. But Paul's instructors considered survival more important than art, and taught him how to kill with the point when necessary. I could be wrong but I also recall the Fremen consider stabbing disrespectful because crysknives sometimes contain a well-tip full of poison, which you'd only use on someone whose water you consider unworthy of recycling. Not something to be done in a ritual duel, even if your blade isn't poisoned. Would love a breakdown of the gladiator fight on Giedi Prime.
I'm wondering about those slashing motions before the thrusts: how do you tell the difference visually between sweeping the blade to attack versus sweeping the blade to beat aside the opponent's arm and weapon to create an opening, or to avoid giving them an opening? As fast as they're moving, as and close in, I assumed that every slashing motion was mostly defensive. Is there something to watch for, like the angle of the blade, to tell the difference between offensive and defensive sweeping gestures?
The brilliance of Dune is that even though it's the future, firepower and projectile weapons have become so advanced defensive systems i.e. shileds have had to adapt as well. Because of that soldiers have gone back to fighting with blades, which also plays into the feudal age of chivalry aesthetic.
John Wick (the first movie in the kitchen scene) when he is struggling with a guy, hits the back of his knife to stab it into his opponent. So some movies do show that.
From a storytelling perspective, I LOVE how Paul doesn't go for the kill even though he's got Jamis dead to rights a handful of times. He might have been trained by two of the best killers in the Imperium between Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho but at this point in time he's not a killer himself yet; he's only ever sparred to the touch or to the yield, never fought with intent, to the finish. And, not mentioned here, Gurney just effortlessly taking out Rabban. What happens when a brute used to rely on his men and sheer terror meets someone he can't scare, and who actually knows what they're doing (and is one of the top 5 killers in the Imperium!)
Both duels in the books were almost entirely without clothing. Only wearing something like a loincloth or trunks. Any emphasis on slashing may have had come from a need to reference the books while for whatever reason having the duels fully clothed in the movies.
Yeah iirc the martial arts in the Dune films are mostly based on Balintawak Eskrima which is a Filipino Martial Arts school; the Atreides salute is a variation/modification of a common FMA salute. Would be cool if you could've also checked out the Arena fight between Feyd and the Atreides prisoner, since the latter was played by Roger Yuan who was the fight coordinator for the two films
Still-suits, to the best of my knowledge, are NOT "armor". They're a life support system. Slashing someone's life support system, which would compromise the catch-pockets, which held reclaimed water would *absolutely* make sense as a tactic. Even if you don't kill the opponent outright, you could still doom them to die by virtue of rendering their life support system useless.
Sure, but what does it matter if they die hours later, when they will have plenty of opportunity to kill you before that?! Damaging the still suit is not like a wound that will actually hamper them during the fight. Also, if they know that they're gonna die anwyay, this might make them more aggressive as they would be bent on revenge, so they would be less concerned about a double as long as they can take you with them.
@16:40 ish there are quite a few depictions of rondel daggers with the hilt angled toward the ground. Not usually to that extent, though. Great video in general!
Speaking of slashing, in Finland in the 19th century there was a so-called Häjyjä. They have often been romanticized, they were actually a group of idle robbing and raping young men. Their weapon was a knife, puukko, a Finnish multipurpose knife, which was much better suited for precise woodworking than e.g. Bovie knife. But at least according to the stories, they specifically slashed the targets of their violence, as stabbing could lead to death (and a prison sentence, which was sometimes served in Siberia). Slashing was done with the index finger placed on top of the blade to prevent too deep cuts. According to the family story of one of my acquaintances, they got their surname Tuikkanen because they didn't really know how to cut, but they stabbed (Tuikkanen means something the same as stinging). And get certain consequences.
To comment on your so-called qualifications. You are far better qualified than you think. I would be willing to put money on the fact that, unlike most, you have probably been in a lot of fights with bladed weaponry, even if it's just sparing. Study is one thing. Putting it into practice is another. I studied military history and tactics when I was a kid. Then I joined the US Marines and found that out lol
He also worked with the UK Home Office regarding knife wounds/knife defense, so he has institutional experience as well. Probably why he mentions CCTV footage of "real fights" that would have shown up on public cameras
@tylerphuoc2653 Like I said, he is more qualified than he leads us to believe. He is too humble for his own good 😆. I've been following him ever since Drach did a collaboration video with him.
19:45 To your point, it does look like Paul is thrusting (and aiming for the less armored midsection) whereas Feyd is the one mainly slashing and maybe he’s just assuming a metal blade would work well enough against a stillsuit.
This has always confused me: can the full-body shields not protect the user from the blast caused by the exploding shield of another shield user, if the former shoots the latter with a lasgun?
@@Vlad_Tepes_III This ain't your average grenade size explosion. It's more off a nuclear size explosion. Hence everyone agreeing on melee fights. No one is going to survive that.
I love how much you take into account cinematic language! I've seen a lot of HEMA content creators go on and on about choreography without taking into account the fact that the medium is inherently narrative. Actors can't all be martial artists, and even if they were some concessions still need to be made to the camera/audience. It would be incredibly unsatisfying if the climactic duel ended quickly, or if the audience couldn't keep up with the pace of the fight. You want the audience to be able to follow each exchange so that they are there with the characters. That requires some artistic liberties. Great video, love the breakdown!!
I live in Las Vegas and have been in multiple knife fights from the age of 12. As far as I'm concerned there are only 5 films that accurately describe how knife fights look. Real knife fights last a few seconds, real knife fights go as follows he who knows how to kill or mame the other first wins 99% of the time. A stab or cut in high blood loss areas will result in a win. He who attacks the fastest at the weapon hand disarming the opponent and achieves this, usually wins. He who has the most layers and knows how to use them effectively to obsorb slashes usually wins. Example wrap your jacket around your arm and use as a "shield." Modern clothing will not stop Stabbing from occurring. This is real life experience i hope it helps.
Would love to see videos of these Italian close fighting techniques you've mentioned. Also always down for more movie fight reviews, Rob Roy or any others.
Excellent review and breakdown, Matt. Missed opportunity though. You could have shown one of your antique Moro Kris knives to demo what a historical one actually is as opposed to the film version.
Much obliged. Enjoyed the breakdown of a fav fight in a fav movie. The first knife duel that caught my attention in a movie was in Behind Enemy Lines: Colombia; I'd be curious to see what you think of it.
You should check out "King Arthur" 2004. I remember it being pretty good, though it was a long time ago when I knew less. Should be some interesting stuff to pick apart in there.
I have done iai, iaido, iaijitsui, kendo, and Kenjitsui and one of my sensei did escrima. In order to not to damage the blade edge the back of the blade to block or re-direct, also often the knife is used backwards so the blade protects the wrist and the hilt is often used to hitting and sometimes the psycho stabbing motion is used. I understand the slashing motion which you are correct about is necessary to get into a position to stab even in samurai styles mainly kendo and Kenjitsui, iaido and iaijitsui. Another technique is to slide down the opponents blade to cut the hands..
Matt, have you watched the self defence contest put on by Rokas? (Spelling?). One of the contestants started his knife defence fights on his back and defended with his feet. It worked pretty well for that scenario!
New to the channel. Have you ever reviewed the knife fight, or any of the sword fights from the 2002 production of The Count of Monte Christo with Guy Pearce and Jim Caviezel?
It's sweet to hear he knows about FMA. The part of this information that is not emphasized is that the fighting scenes in Dune are BALINTAWAK Eskrima based choreography. Balintawak is usually teached and practiced with 1 single stick, and not with a bladed weapon. It is in the core of FMA that you can use almost anything with the FMA moves, either edged or blunt weapons. I think the owner of the channel is pretty familiar with all these (and probably much more as well), so I am not sure why this was not taken into consideration.
With the knife you're holding at the beginning of the video, what is the point of the notch at the bottom of the blade and above the guard? It feels like it would catch a blade but seems like it would increase the chance of the blade breaking.
Slashes are also an effective method for trying to impair the hand, wrist or forearm. A few choice or lucky slices could take out tendons or open some bleeding, which could help in the short term or definitely over time. They also have a place to open spaces, especially against a flurry press or less well-trained opponents.
Matt, have you done the SPL Killzone Allley fight between Donnie Yen and Wu Ying (Knife vs Baton)? It's from a Hong Kong movie but still done in a somewhat "realistic" way. It would be interesting to see your take on it.
Great analysis, I’m subscribed now. One point though, about the slashing versus thrusting - people will tend to revert to the techniques they were taught, even if those techniques aren’t the most practical for the situation. Feyd was trained mostly for duels in the arena, with little clothing and no armor. So he would instinctively use slashes, even against an opponent with light armor. Paul (in the novel) was taught to cut,not stab, as stabbing “lacks artistry”. In a fight, he would tend to favor what he was taught. The lesson for us all, then, is to be mindful of what we practice, since that will become our habit.
This is more complicated than a simple review, but I would love to see how you would make a sword fight version of my favorite fight scene of all time. I'm talking about the Robert Downy Jr's bare knuckles fight in Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes. The reason I love the scene so much is that it gets around the classic problem of fight choreography, that you've talked about many times. Normally, a realistic fight between skilled fighters still looks sloppy, and is hard for the audience to follow, let alone gain any understanding of plot or character development. So I'd love to see you choreograph a short, skillful sword fight, with the slow-mo version giving you time to explain the nuances involved, and then the full speed version still showing all of the things you described in the blink of an eye. (If anyone else feels like taking a stab at this, please reply to this post with your results!)
He displays it in this video! ua-cam.com/video/dXOZ8xffAUk/v-deo.htmlsi=YcJOSE9oi-tBnDTQ At 06:10 he pulls it out and refers to it as an Arkansas toothpick. Pretty unusual example if that's the case. It kinda has some german trench knife and hunting knife vibes.
Love your videos Matt. And I love Dune, so enjoying this one. Just my uneducated opinion on the slashes, especially in the last fight. To me slashes seem like the best way to create space and keep the opponent busy while you look for a gap. Just two guys stabbing at each other wouldnt make sense. Stab there , block, stab there , block and so on. While the slash might be the finishing strike, as they are in both these fights, even in rapier fencing you may slash for a reason. Such as disorientating the opponent, creating space or just keeping them busy while you look for a gap.
Bald: check
Expert with bladed weapons: check
You know... Matt might be a Harkonnen.
Calling the Harkonnens "experts" with bladed weapons might be a bit of an overstatement...
@@VideoMask93 looks like we found an Atreides.
Do the Harkonnen deeply appreciate the butt or penetration to the same degree? Besides Feyd. And probably his Uncle.
😂😂👍🏻
@@VideoMask93 Feyd was pretty good.
“Gurney says there’s no artistry in killing with the tip, that it should be done with the edge.”
“Gurney’s a romantic,” the Duke growled. This talk of killing suddenly disturbed him, coming from his son. “I’d sooner you never had to kill…but if the need arises, you do it however you can-tip or edge.”
“Gurney Halleck’s words were there to remember: “The good knife fighter thinks on point and blade and shearing-guard simultaneously. The point can also cut; the blade can also stab; the shearing-guard can also trap your opponent’s blade.””
“Killing with the point lacks artistry,” Idaho had once told Paul, “but don’t let that hold your hand when the opening presents itself."
Quoting to explain ftw. Also needed to mention that they stripped the suits before the flight to avoid wasting valuable suits. Both the training and that detail would've made the slashing make full sense
Well, I will have you know that I'm a master of the art of 'just the tip'.
All groovy till someone slits your tendons causing you to drop your weapon.
Great thing about Dune is that melee makes perfect sense in the lore. I wish all movies used armor or a shield, or regeneration. Something to give reasons on why heroes are avoiding death instead of giving the enemy Storm Trooper aim.
Even John Wick
@@dianapennepacker6854 Ah, was treating you like a grown up, but then you come out with a reference to that puerile childish nonsense.
@@dianapennepacker6854 that's why we wear protective layers, though.
Dune's melee makes sense... but the rest of the lore about the shields causing a nuclear explosion? Absurd. Sounds like the worst engineering oversight ever, or a really idiotic way to make a sci-fi novel into a fantasy novel.
In the first fight they probably also tried to take Paul's shield training into account. In the book it's mentioned that he often slows down his attacks, as you have to when fighting shields, but that's interpreted by the fremen as cruely "toying"
Yes, they really didn't adapt the book fights well, IMHO.
I thought of it more as showing that when push came to shove, Paul was a VASTLY superior fighter than his opponent, to the point that he COULD essentially play patty cakes with him.
E.g. if I, someone who has zero experience, were to spar with Matt, I'd honestly be surprised if the skill gap wouldn't allow Matt to play sticky hands with me.
And, again the way I'm interpreting it, it also explains why Paul was so reluctant to actually kill him, because Paul didn't see it as anything even remotely close to being a fair fight. He didn't end the fight until Stilgar points out that there is only one way to end the fight and that Paul should stop toying with him.
@MrMartinSchou maybe that's the intention in the movie, which I actually haven't seen yet.
In the books (if I remember correctly, it's been a while) we see the scene through the eyes of Paul's mother. And for one she's not sure if he actually is capable of killing someone (as it is his very first real fight) and she's seeing that he attacks as his opponent if wearing a shield (which is what he was training to do)
They explicitly didn't in the movie for this fight. The whole arc of Paul getting a little too cocky after the fight and a little too comfortable with killing someone never shows up in the film. He's just kinda portrayed as scared and wimpy at this point.
Good movies overall, but they definitely took a lot of liberties with Paul's character and development.
You actually hear someone say that Paul is playing with his opponent, and (at least in the book) this is how Paul's shield training manifests.
It may have already been said, but I think one of the really excellent things about the Paul v Feyd duel is how their family lines and personalities show through. Feyd has likely never truly fought a capable opponent in a fair fight - he has trained with great fighters but only fought in rigged gladiatorial combat. So his fighting style is flashy and showy - I think this is why they have him doing big slashes and thrusts; it looks good from a distance even if it's dangerous in a real fight. When he has Paul at his mercy he chooses to draw the moment out, and savour it, because he is a sadistic psychopath.
Paul has been fighting for his life all day, and is likely exhausted, so he's sloppier than we see him when training or fighting Jamis. He does something Feyd is likely psychologically incapable of doing, which is willingly take a blade to win the fight. He was taught a noble method was best, but to win at any cost when it came to it.
A major theme in the book is also the animals vs humans conjecture; the Harkonnens are held up as examples of people incapable of restraining their animal nature. We see this with Feyd - he shouts, gets angry, gets frustrated when it's not an easy victory, makes mistakes as a result. Paul is silent the whole fight, because he is a human, capable of putting his base instincts aside. That they choreographed these deeper themes into this fight is, in my opinion, brilliant.
I hadn't even noticed the animal/human natures in their differences. Not on a thematic level, anyway. Damn, and I love the book.
@@JeshuaHicksAuthorIts not just there. Its extremely obvious in Vladimir Harkonnen, who is so impulsive, hos eating disorder made him so big, he cant move anymore.
Just a note, on the second fight's ending, Paul allows the second blade to plunge into his shoulder, at the same time retrieving the other blade from his body and using it to stab the guy. He doesn't divert the blade back.
Thank you. Thanks what I thought too.
Yeah, that's what I thought happened
Also my interpretation. Great to get verification. :)
would have been nice to actually be able to SEE what happened lol. matts version is cooler.
@@ShagShaggio Or they pan back and BOTH daggers are sticking out of Feyd... and a third and fourth one for some reason...
one detail in the book i like with the Jamis duel, is Paul takes a bit of time to get used to fight against an unshielded opponent, he is really fast on the defence but keeps missing Jamis because he slows to account for the shield that's not there.
as I recall they also take stillsuits off for the fight
If you were deep in the desert away from sietch, a cut up stillsuit, while not immediately lethal, would mean a slow death unless you could repair your stillsuite... So, cuts on Arrakis could have consequences not seen here on Earth.
and that's why in the books the fremen undress for their duells
@Kroiznacher Exactly! I was going to come back and say this...
Thos villainuveau films are stupid on so many levels ...
Not stupid but streamlined so loosing nuance.
Good point but damaging someone stillsuit isn't gonna stop them attacking you.
I had never realised this before, but I don't think the fight ends the way you say it does.
Feyd stabs Paul in Paul's left side with his own knife, and then tries to stab him.
Paul grabs the blade with his right hand, and then redirects it.
But we see after this that Paul's left hand has stabbed Feyd with Paul's Knife (the one that was in his own side)
And afterwards we see Paul draw Feyd's knife out of his own right shoulder.
So Paul redirected Feyd's knife into his shoulder with his right hand while drawing out the knife in his own side and stabbing Feyd with the left.
Yep this was always my interpretation as well. Paul's initial stab wound is to his left torso. When Feyd falls away, Paul has a knife in his left hand, and is stabbed in the right shoulder. There is no knife in his torso.
So Paul allowed Feyd to stab him in the shoulder/chest and used that moment to take his own knife from his belly and to stab Feyd with it.
Yep I had to go look at it in the 4k short to verify what you said but you are absolutely right.. he redirected Feyds back into Feyd and stabbed him with his own knife with his other hand at the same time.
I think here we see the story telling in action, Feyd's cruelty, wanting to prolong the fight and torture Paul with the "inevitable" outcome, is the very thing which gives Paul the opening to end the fight and fits the story-telling very well.
I don’t known whether it’s a good or bad thing that it’s caused so much debate. The clarity was lacking in the scene
@@GreenTimeEagle the fights were definitely too poorly lit.
Matt great breakdown as always. "Defanging the snake" is the #1 goal in Filipino Kali. You slash at the hand, wrist and forearm constantly and if you can trap the opponent's arm for a split second the knife should already be there for the disabling cut. They didn't employ this strategy at all. As far as their stance goes I've been taught to stay light on your toes, circling your opponent, moving in and out and leading only with the point of the blade. Not bending over, leading with your head, your empty hand or your leg. Always keeping the pointy end pointed at your opponent assures that if they rush you they'll impale themselves. One more thing they didn't address because no one got cut, is that any type of cut causes the body to go into shock and with each slice the the brain of the injured person slows them down and likely make them pass out.
The choreo Roger Yuan worked into the Dune films has been, in my opinion, some of the very best in film history, and I’m very thankful he had a director with the restraint to not ruin it with shaky cam and cutting.
You use shaky cam when you have no confidence in your choreographer or actors.
Indeed great work, Roger is the undrugged Atreides Feyd fights in the arena scene and was in part one as well
In the books we see swords and knives used commonly on Arrakis bc shields couldn’t be used, as they would call the worms and send them into a frenzy. Additionally shooting laser based weapons and shields caused a type of nuclear explosion, so we don’t see lasers being used where someone could potentially have a shield. Dart guns and rifles were common in the books. The Atreides soldiers carried Kindjals and push daggers a lot IIRC, where the Harkonens tended to carry longer swords and blunt force weapons. Duncan Idaho is a Ginaz swordmaster too, it was a cool bit of lore when they showed Duncan fighting against Sardaukar troops, as the Ginaz would be some of the few who could stand up to them and win.
This, yes the good lore.
@@titanscerw Indeed! :)
"My sword was blooded in Grumman!"
- Happy Hour Idaho
they also use rapiers right? I kinda remember that.
@Diogolindir Yes
Great breakdown, Matt. I just want to mention a mistake though. The camerawork makes it hard to tell, but the second fight ends with Paul pulling the crysknife from his own body "undercamera" and stabbing Feyd with it, while Feyd is completely focused on stabbing what ends up being Paul's shoulder. If you look at the still from 33:38, you can see the handle in Paul's hand isn't that of the Emperor's dagger. It's more clear in the full clip: when Paul pulls the knife from Feyd's body, you can see the Emperor's blade still in Paul's shoulder.
I came here to say exactly this (though I was sure someone would have beaten me to it)
@@camsy83 Yeah, although I can't fault anybody for missing it. I think it's a small lapse in what is otherwise very good cinematography. I couldn't tell for sure what had happened the first time I saw it. And after I read Matt's description, I had to watch the full scene again just to make sure I wasn't wrong.
Yeah that's what I thought when I saw it too... Paul got 2 injuries. One in the belly from first time and one in the shoulder in the last, he deflected it to the shoulder then what would have been his chest.
@@tiltskillet7085rant add, film didn't show it, so we the audience be like everyone else in the film, not knowing who 'won' or what happened...
Liam Neeson grabbing Tim Roths blade has lived rent free in my head since I saw it on the big screen. Would love to see you revisit that film!
That is one of my favorite sword fighting scenes in any movie. It just feels so gritty and raw.
It's one of my favorite sword fights as well. It's probably in the top 10 most realistic movie fights with swords.
With regard to the "sticky hands drill" (~12:00)... one thing to remember is that this is Paul's first actual fight, so him doing things that are like drills would be reasonable
I think the fact it looks like training is also by design. Once paul has jannis figured out, he's not even close to being able to land a strike anymore. Making it look like training shows how outclassed jannis is.
@@russellstephens3580 And Jannis is just acting on rage and arrogance, assuming he can out maneuver Paul without being as defensive as he should have been.
@@russellstephens3580 It could be, I remember in the book the Fremen were slightly disgusted that it appeared that Paul was toying with Janis. Paul had only ever fought with shields though, so it looked like he was pulling his strikes and playing with his prey, when in fact he had no idea how to actually go in for killing strikes.
That and Paul is also have to overcome an aversion to killing in real time
4:30 Yes and no, against Fremen, a slice on the stillsuit can be just as deadly as actually penetrating the skin, since the stillsuits regulate water and without a fully functioning stillsuit you'll be dead from dehydration in a short span of time, unless you have friends nearby with reserves. I'd imagine on Arrakis, the Fremen would have learned how to target the weak points in the stillsuit just as much as how to actually hurt the person inside.
My thoughts exactly 💯
In the book, they fight without suits. To protect them from harm, being that the suit is more important than the person who is currently using it. Fremen are very pragmatic.
@@DanielMcGillis-f3w Yep, that makes sense. They also drain the recently deseased from all moisture (blood).
I also think some of Fyde's slashes instead of stabs can be explained by the fact that the character belives he is a better fighter. He wants to draw the fight out and savor the kill. Plus, although he has combat experince, but he also fought alot of slaves in the arena. I think his fighting style reflects that.
Feyd is inherently cocky and fights like it, to the point where in the book and the David Lynch movie when he realises Paul is a better fighter and is winning the fight, Feyd tries to cheat and use a hidden blade in his suit to stab Paul.
"There's no artistry in killing with the tip."
Slaves and drugged Attreides with only half-shields and basically naked.
Then it was that one Attreides who wasn't drugged properly (in the movie it's the Baron testing him, in the book it's more likely political infighting in the wider family just below the Baron, maybe even Rabban or Piter behind it.
@@thunder2434 it was orchestrated by the captive Thufir.
One thing about the fighting at 10:35 to 10:58 is that every pause Paul had a killing blow whether it was a stab to a kidney, a slash to the neck, or a stab under the arm to the lung. So yeah it looked to us like it was just theatre patty cake, the reality was it was Paul demonstrating his superiority to Jamis also hence Stilgars question to Jessica if Paul was toying with him.
In the book is it also noted that Paul was trained to fight shielded opponents. His pause before the killing blow was more because his training was instinctive to pause and slow down the attack to get past the shield.
@@DanielMcGillis-f3w this is the correct detail. it was specifically noted in the book that slowing to defeat the shield was what made it look like Paul was toying with Jamis.
@@DanielMcGillis-f3walso Paul had never killed anyone 'with a naked blade' - people tend to forget he was only 15 at this point.
I'm glad you mentioned the head being vulnerable because I was going to bring up the fact that most of the slashes and cuts were at the head and throat and that can be very. effective
When I worked in the ER we saw a fair number of hand wounds when someone using a guardless knife, stabbed another person, hit bone, and the hand rode up onto the blade causing nasty wounds to the palm or fingers.
Thus I’ve always maintained that any sort of dagger or thrust-centric knife should have a guard.
Trained for awhile with a martial scool in Rome thats been around since 1500's and was the last school to organize knife duels in the 1950s, they still train military personnel in knife combat. In both single hand and second hand duels the first rule of knife fighting NO SLASHING. Second rule was DISTANCE, a grapple or close contact almost always ended the duel on the leave. Third rule was dodge not block and keep oval pattern footwork.
You mentioned wanting to get up off the ground in a knife fight. While I would generally agree, I recently say a show where they tested various martial artists in various scenarios. The defend against a knife attack scenario was very interesting. Most failed rather spectacularly. One fellow did simply drop to his back and defended himself with his feet. Thus preventing fatal cuts to his torso. This was a timed trial, and only the attacker had the knife, but I thought quite an interesting result. It was in the second season of the show Ultimate Self-Defense Championship. Worth a watch.
I see later in the piece you saw the same show !😊
That show didn't consider cuts or stabs to the legs. Nice shirts but nothing for the legs. They even had to think for a while before considering a face/eye stab an stopping wound.
That's a nice show, improving every season. Pulling guard against an standing knife armed opponent is silly. Both statements are true and not conflicting against each other.
I never really understood the never go to the ground mantra. It’s a bit like saying never get punched or never get stabbed. You don’t always have a choice.
@@BigHossHackworth The point is to avoid if possible but be prepared if you absolutely have to
It ignored the most fatal cut and that is the femoral artery. You will die in seconds. Staying on your back and giving the attacker that target as a gift is very, very foolish
11:33 i think that is or is supposed to be an indication that jamis have already lost his shit and basically accepted his fate in a sense, there's no will to fight in him any more
yes, and wanted to add it shows Jamis has depleted moves Paul does not have a response to. It looks rote because the fight is done and there is nothing more to say. The dialogue is over
You comment about both getting stabbed reminds me of a warning from an instructor:
The loser of a knife fight dies in the street
The winner dies in the hospital
As some one whom got stabbed in the hand, and had the artery in it severed. I understand that mentallity. I was lucky i managed to get to the hospital as fast as I did. I lost a LOT of blood, enough to start having tunnel vision and starting to feel faint. So stabb wounds or just even hand wounds can be extremely dangerous. especially towards the wrist in the area of the pinkyfinger in the palm. just slightly abow the ball there. It happened about 7 years ago. my hand still hurts from that day. Don't ever get stabbed in the hand. -10.000.000/10 would not recommend the experience.
If this was fully true to the book, they would be fighting in just shorts, not the stillsuits
This
Which is one of the nice details from the 2000 SciFi miniseries with Alec Newman.
@@kemarisiteI'll have to check that out.
That would've been goofy
@@lighthousefilms5530the ladies would’ve loved it though. Probably would’ve made even more in the box office.😂
Is there anything to the thought that a reason why there is so much slashing is, yes, it looks more dramatic, but also is far less likely to end up in a serous injury if a choreography mistake is made?
I’d think even prop weapons jabbed in a vulnerable spot could be quite painful, damaging or even deadly.
I thought the same
It's likely why the thrust to Feid's head was several inches above it.
@@yiarkungfu Safety is likey why the actor's as fuly suited up. instead of just the shorts of the book. Zero forgiveness of a fluffed move in shorts.
I have heard that's a concern - a retracting prop knife that jams and fails to retract is suddenly a real threat of impaling someone, while a slash with a dull blade might score the skin, but isn't going to kill someone.
I really like how you show a sequence, stop & explain what we are seeing, & then reshow it. Its really helpful
If I was about to have a knife shoved through my face and the only way to stop it was to grab the blade, _I would grab the blade._ It isn't a lightsaber, it wouldn't vaporize my hand. Especially if I was wearing gloves like Paul here, the blade didn't even cut him.
I worked with a Vietnam War vet and he had a nasty scar on the palm of his left hand. He got it when an enemy charged out of the bush with his bayonet and all the guy had time to do was grab it and hold on long enough to get his own knife out and end the fight.
Cool fights, looks like the main character definitely could of used some lighter shoes, and had his hands a little lower in his starting stance at 17:30 with a little more movement if we're gonna go snake style instead of fencing style with knives though?
Or at least like your about to kick him in the face in a higher stance or back up easier myself, and probably not a 90° right and left foot orientation in my fencing stance either like karate or even after doing a knifehand block first I think? As snake would obviously be too fast with a lighter slash to his outstretched fencing wrist from a low dart and half cutting his hand off with my tantos though? And try not to run at the guy with a shank at his side and then get chased with your backturned like that prison video, and circle to the right and offside and then back and confuse the opponent, or catch the wrist and bringing the arm behind the back can be good with some backhands sometimes?
Think about it. Grabbing a knife is the worse thing to do. You would grab or trap the arm or wrist holding the knife, block or push away the arm or the wrist, or get out of the way of the blade. Despite what you see in films, most knives will disable hands and fingers if you grab them with bare hands. and if you're fighting southpaw, where the opponent's knife is on the same side as yours means you're at an immediate disadvantage. Grabbing the knife is the last thing you should do.
@@CuriousCrow-mp4cxPaul was wearing gloves
Fun fact; "May your knife chip and shatter" is them saying "May you die", because a crys-knife is kept sharp and durable by being kept near your body's electrical field according to Dune Lore. A crys-knife kept near your body won't chip or shatter, because a sandworm consumes a lot of rock, and their teeth are thus made to eat rocks, very hard to break.
Electrical field?
Not quite. A new, untreated, crysknife would need to be kept close to a body, but afterwards could be stored like any other weapon.
Exactly. They are nearly impossible to break. Thus making that pronouncement more akin to a prayer.
Well now that was super useful information. Thanks. I love the movies, but have not read the books. I have the first book on my shelf though.
@@MrBlaktoe I forget if it's after hearing Jamis's curse, but I remember Paul considers that. The line is something like "...he didn't know the breaking [tension?] of this blade, didn't even know if it *could* be broken". Can't remember if they said breaking strength/tension/strain/point; I think ultimate breaking strain is what real-life nerds say.
11:00 I don't think this is a fair criticism. The point of that exchange is that Paul keeps going for a killing blow and stopping intentionally and Jamis is stopping because he can't comprehend why Paul hasn't killed him (and then grows with rage each time because he thinks he's being made fun of). So this ''sticky-hands'' type of exchange is completely intentional on Paul's part and unintentional (and infuriating) for Jamis.
the point in the books is that Paul is conditioned to fighting with the shield which will deflect anything that comes in faster than its setting - so paul's strikes are slower than the Fremen would strike; as they don't use shields.
@@kenbrown2808 That's in the books, not the movie.
@@n0tthemessiah it's in the movie, it's just not made clear enough for YOU in the movie.
@@kenbrown2808 It's literally not mentioned anywhere in the movie's narrative. I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong.
@@n0tthemessiah Paul never stops mid strike and says, "oh, gee willikers mr Jamis.I could kill you right now, but I'm hesitating" either. the practice session with gurney sets up how paul has been trained to fight with personal shields. Jessica also sets up that it is his first fight to the death.
Matt: I'm qualified but not an expert.
Also Matt: Proceeds to demonstrate expertise.
I love this guy!
Not many on the planet have as much expertise as him but what, we love him like this, modest.
@@szalaierik It is a fine quality that we don't see enough today.
Also. Paul pulled his own knife out of himself to stab Feyd. Fred's knife doesn't get deflected and Paul pulls it out of himself after Feyd collapses.
Edit: I meant Feyd not Fred, but it's too funny to change.
Tee hee 'fred'
@kennethg9277 my shame is limitless 🤣
Fred-Rautha Harkonnen!
Glad you're still Matt Easton!
Just as a random note. In the fight with Feyd Rautha, i'm pretty sure Paul pulls the knife from his own stomach and uses that to finish off Feyd after diverting the dagger in his right hand. As you can see the final knife is in his left hand.
Anyway just thought it would be a helpful FYI :)
Edit : After re-watching i'm now 100% sure on this. Matt if you see this, are there any documented events of individuals pulling blades from their body to dispatch an opponent?
There's a quote from Dune I've always loved:
_The edge can also stab, the tip can also cut and the guard can sometimes catch the blade._
Maybe that's why I LOVED that scene from Gladiator so very much!!! The one where Maximus says "The frost! Sometimes it makes the blade stick!" then he hacks the face off a Praetorian... I guess the bit "...sometimes catch the blade" and "Sometimes it makes the blade stick" are similar enough that it triggered my nostalgia.
OLDBOY.
It has the only scene I've ever seen depicting one guy taking on 10 or so at the same time that was even remotely believable. So, Mr. Easton, I would love your opinion on the famous hallway fight scene and the hero's tactical use of, well, a framing hammer.
Yes! That hallway fight is incredible (and was used as the basis for one of the coolest setpieces in Sifu, which is a game made of amazing setpiece fights).
@a-blivvy-yus hell yea. I just love how the scene was shot at such a flat straight angle to that hallway.. that director really wanted to make the scene plausible and pulled it off as far as I'm concerned
I would also recommend "The Raid".
Framing hammers are a hell of a weapon. Think short war hammer. Side note: a lot of bikers have cut down ball pein hammers that they use for working on their bikes and just happen to forget and leave in their pockets. Better weapon than most knives.
I've been watching your channel for a couple of years now, and this is why I love it. When you analyze movie/tv fights you give the nitty gritty fight and technique analysis, and wether or not its realistic or effective. But you have tremendous respect for the art and craft of fight choreography and the cinematic effect. Its always enlightening, never pedantic. Love it.
Dune is one of my very favorite books! One thing to note: Paul Muad'Dib is fully immersed in Fremen culture during his duel with Feyd Rautha. He fights alongside the Fedaykin. Herbert based the Fremen on Bedouin, and while there were certain artistic licenses taken for dramatic on-screen effect, I wonder how Arab fighting styles might be represented.
There's a lot of inspiration from Afghanistan as well, Herbert took quite a lot from the Sabres of Paradise by Lesley Blanch.
Great video as always! I’d love to see you review the fight between Peter and Miraz in Prince Caspian! There’s some really cool (and some really frustrating) stuff about fighting in armor, and I think it would be a really interesting discussion!
I do really enjoy you’re film fight breakdowns. And I’d certainly like to see more. Rob Roy is one of my favourite.
Couple others to recommend
The Mark of Zorro (Tyrone Powers/Basil Rathbone)
The Duelists (Harvey Keital/Keith Carridine)
The Deluge (Daniel Olbrychski/Tadeusz Łomnicki)
Scaramouche (Stewart Granger/Mel Ferrer)
Rob Roy
Deluge
Duelists
Yes, I like those too.
The Duel lists would be a multi part. Love that film!
Matt all of the above would be awesome.
Fight review suggestion: The bridge scene in Robin Hood, Men in Tights.
Fingers will not be spared!
Great video!
I quite like the way Paul moved in that second duel, especially things like that corkscrew flip he did.
The thing with Paul is that he's a very skilled practitioner of Prana Bindu, so he has not only great strength and agility but also a superhuman level of control over his body.
So movements and tactics that a normal person might not want to risk are fairly easy for him to pull off, and I like how that aspect seems to have been represented.
I've done a similar defensive kick out of reflex before, and have seen the concept in at least one historical source, so it's viable.
To your point, he comes out of the corkscrew flip with a slash to Feyd's Achilles tendon. Some movies would choreograph it as just a flashy dodge, like Ray Park does in The Phantom Menace, but here he uses it to dodge _and_ attack. It actually looks choreographed _too well,_ because Butler is a bit late in reacting to the slash.
@jamietodd2560
True! Which makes the Wierding rep even classier.
28:00 Matt, wouldn't this particular case be a ligadura mezana? (or a middle / standing kimura) I think a ligadura sotana would need to have the hands under the shoulder?
Rob Roy was one of my favourit movies growing up so I'd love to see a return of it on the channel!
@16:30: a pinched scabbard will hold a blade quite well; something with inserts to pinch the blade, or squeezed/strapped sides.
A note: This is supposed to take place like 100,000 years into the future; AI is banned, but the Ixians were creating ALL SORTS of technology...the movie didn't convey just how nanotech that universe was.
A second note: The Atreides military had one of the most extensive libraries of military history in the Empire, and Paul was trained from a very young age on the etiquette, technique, and efficacy of almost every era of war, all the way back to Earth.
Come on, Matt, killing with the point lacks artistry!
(It's a book reference, not actual criticism, I'm enjoying the video and learning stuff from it, as usual.)
I don't know what does mean, but It did had artistry. I think you should look into rapier fights
@@BakunauaX2435 Gurney, one of the characters and a weapons master, thinks slashes are more 'romantic' than stabs. It makes enough sense- slashes are more dramatic and cool looking than an efficient, no nonsense shank.
Its partly to characterise that he's a warrior, but also an artist.
I was training in the Inosanto system back in the 90’s. And we were told there is a difference between “slash” and “cutting” with a blade. We were also taught how to “thrust slash” using the point of the knife. Practicing the angle drills.
That's cool. I trained with one of his best students for several years. Dan Innosanto is probably the greatest martial artist who ever lived.
In the book, and the miniseries, Paul and Jamis fought in a sealed chamber with stilsuits removed. Also, in the book, it is mentioned that the nerve root of the tooth leaves a hollow track from the tip and is typically filled with poison. Jessica caught on to this with Mapes when presented with her knife, as it needed to be blooded before resheathing, and at first had the point going in for the cut, but Mapes gave a sign that Jessica's training caught and then turned it to the edge. Which made Mapes believe even more in the prophecy.
They really underutilized the use of poisons in the movies. In the books, they're are so much more uses. Like Paul getting stabbed in Part 2 by Feyd, that didn't happen in the book, and the gladiator scene earlier explained that Feyd uses a poisoned blade, and in Part 2 Feyd uses his own dagger, not the Emperor's.
@@Laarye just one correction; Feyd did use the Emperor’s knife, but he had a hidden poison needle or small blade built into his suit. That he could deploy when needed.
@@Killjoy170why didn’t he use it?!
scrolled until i found someone mention that the first fight happened in the book without stilsuit, bare skin. thank you.
@ In the book he tried to use the needle, but he failed and Paul turned him around sort of flipping him onto the ground stabbing his crysknife under his chin into his brain, killing Feyd.
Hey Matt, thanks for doing this breakdown, loved it (as much as the movie). I am a BJJ practitioner and realize the limits of the art, pretty sure all of us do (and they cross-train). I also did HEMA fencing before. The "kick" to the overarm (or the shoulder for the matter) is a thing we do a lot, it is a part of techniques and we learn to do it consistently, i find it perfectly plausible. Also the arm twists are correct imo. I'd do some rolls too :D to retreat or attack from below but would be comical XD
Cant wait to try some of these in the summer with my HEMA friends.
Loved the fights in Dune. If you ask me, they found a very good balance between realism/authenticity and more theatrical moves / making things slow enough so the typical audience can mostly tell what's going on.
VIDEO SUGGESTIONS: Great stuff as always Matt. Three other suggestions for reviews/fight breakdowns:
1. Black Death - Eddie Redmayne & Sean Bean in a plauge/witchcraft film. Is any of the combat (or weapons) realistic or worthy of note?
2. The Duellists - You did a review about 8 or so years ago. Time for an update on this great 1977 Ridley Scott films?
3. Robin of Sherwood - part of my childhood and a bit of fun
Suggestion: please review the shorter fights in Scaramouche. They're textbook fencing, and there's also some interesting training methods featured in there.
This is one of your best videos. It is informative and witty; some of your remarks are hilarious. Thank you, Sir.
Could you analyze the duels in the stardust and Cyrano with Gerard Depardieu?
Fun tidbit: if you go frame by frame during the sequence where Paul gets stabbed with his own blade, you’ll see during the standup grappling portion that Paul actually is about to lock Feyd’s arm before Paul’s left hand mysteriously withdraws until he gets stabbed with his own blade. Its blink and you’ll miss it, but for the sake of choreography, Timothy had to give up the superior position and totally withdraw his left arm for no reason to make the redirect and stab possible 😂
@26:55 - Argument, the metal armor is only for the chest and all of Paul's slashes have been to the stomach, arms, legs, or eyes... Just saying.
did you ever see the knife fight from Eastern Promises?
lino knives, horribly sharp but fragile, because they're meant to be tradesmen for their day jobs and also as an excuse to have the knives on them
Enjoyed this breakdown. Thanks for sharing your insights! I loved these fights also
Something you probably haven't considered in the analysis is that crysknives are much sharper than any modern day blade in existence, able to cut through even protective gear with a slashing cut. Crysknives are functionally different from the kindjals used by the soldiers of the Imperium, which are purposed for shield fighting. A shorter blade was sometimes used in accompaniment with the kindjal, called a slip-tip, which was often poisoned.
This knife pairing is seen in Feyd's gladiator set presented to him. I'm pretty certain in the book they talk about one or both of the knives being poisoned.
@@pork-the-fork In the novel, Feyd-Rautha 'borrows' his knife from the Emperor because the blade is coated with a soporific that is supposed to slow down the victim and essentially soften him up without making it too obvious that poison is being used. It's a nice, dastardly touch that (IIRC) is missing from not only Villeneuve's movie but also Lynch's.
Yes, the return of the fight breakdown! More, please. Maybe give the fellas at Scenic Fights a call for a collab, haha
Just the fact that the blades don't make an audible ringing or swishing noise with every move was a great improvement compared to the usual hollywood knife fight/attack scenes. The scenes were appropriately suspenseful and dramatic. Fit the tone of the movies very well.
A Balintawak guy here, yeah for cinematic purposes they used more slashes than thrusting... which we do have and which I would be using more in such a situation. And no attempts at intercepting incoming attacks, blade vs wrist, etc. But I really liked the intricacies of their choreo with the very active checking hand due to Balintawak
Besides fight choreography reasons, the use of the edge over the point could be cultural based on the novel.
In the high culture of the Imperium the use of the point is considered crude, the edge artful - a detail Frank Herbert borrowed from the fighting practices of the Caucasus as described in Sabres of Paradise. But Paul's instructors considered survival more important than art, and taught him how to kill with the point when necessary.
I could be wrong but I also recall the Fremen consider stabbing disrespectful because crysknives sometimes contain a well-tip full of poison, which you'd only use on someone whose water you consider unworthy of recycling. Not something to be done in a ritual duel, even if your blade isn't poisoned.
Would love a breakdown of the gladiator fight on Giedi Prime.
I'm wondering about those slashing motions before the thrusts: how do you tell the difference visually between sweeping the blade to attack versus sweeping the blade to beat aside the opponent's arm and weapon to create an opening, or to avoid giving them an opening? As fast as they're moving, as and close in, I assumed that every slashing motion was mostly defensive. Is there something to watch for, like the angle of the blade, to tell the difference between offensive and defensive sweeping gestures?
The first duel with Paul and Jamus. In the book, they are in their lion cloths. Movie kept them in their armor
A detail that was kept in the 2000 SciFi miniseries with Alec Newman.
It was also in the sietch, not the open
@maxcorrice9499 Oh yeah, you're right
Super informative. Thanks as always. We have been your audience and will, of course, continue to be.
I don't know about realism, but the first knife duel at the end of Dune part 1 looked really good.
Nope
do you have any training in wing chun? that block you demonstrated at 8:50 looks very wing chun ish
Would have liked to have seen the gladiator scene analyzed...
The brilliance of Dune is that even though it's the future, firepower and projectile weapons have become so advanced defensive systems i.e. shileds have had to adapt as well. Because of that soldiers have gone back to fighting with blades, which also plays into the feudal age of chivalry aesthetic.
John Wick (the first movie in the kitchen scene) when he is struggling with a guy, hits the back of his knife to stab it into his opponent. So some movies do show that.
From a storytelling perspective, I LOVE how Paul doesn't go for the kill even though he's got Jamis dead to rights a handful of times. He might have been trained by two of the best killers in the Imperium between Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho but at this point in time he's not a killer himself yet; he's only ever sparred to the touch or to the yield, never fought with intent, to the finish.
And, not mentioned here, Gurney just effortlessly taking out Rabban. What happens when a brute used to rely on his men and sheer terror meets someone he can't scare, and who actually knows what they're doing (and is one of the top 5 killers in the Imperium!)
Both duels in the books were almost entirely without clothing. Only wearing something like a loincloth or trunks. Any emphasis on slashing may have had come from a need to reference the books while for whatever reason having the duels fully clothed in the movies.
Yeah iirc the martial arts in the Dune films are mostly based on Balintawak Eskrima which is a Filipino Martial Arts school; the Atreides salute is a variation/modification of a common FMA salute. Would be cool if you could've also checked out the Arena fight between Feyd and the Atreides prisoner, since the latter was played by Roger Yuan who was the fight coordinator for the two films
Still-suits, to the best of my knowledge, are NOT "armor". They're a life support system. Slashing someone's life support system, which would compromise the catch-pockets, which held reclaimed water would *absolutely* make sense as a tactic. Even if you don't kill the opponent outright, you could still doom them to die by virtue of rendering their life support system useless.
Sure, but what does it matter if they die hours later, when they will have plenty of opportunity to kill you before that?!
Damaging the still suit is not like a wound that will actually hamper them during the fight.
Also, if they know that they're gonna die anwyay, this might make them more aggressive as they would be bent on revenge, so they would be less concerned about a double as long as they can take you with them.
They strip before a duel to avoid damaging the valuable stillsuits.
@16:40 ish there are quite a few depictions of rondel daggers with the hilt angled toward the ground. Not usually to that extent, though. Great video in general!
Never bring your wife to a nun fight.
That'd be "weird"(ing)
Speaking of slashing, in Finland in the 19th century there was a so-called Häjyjä. They have often been romanticized, they were actually a group of idle robbing and raping young men. Their weapon was a knife, puukko, a Finnish multipurpose knife, which was much better suited for precise woodworking than e.g. Bovie knife. But at least according to the stories, they specifically slashed the targets of their violence, as stabbing could lead to death (and a prison sentence, which was sometimes served in Siberia). Slashing was done with the index finger placed on top of the blade to prevent too deep cuts. According to the family story of one of my acquaintances, they got their surname Tuikkanen because they didn't really know how to cut, but they stabbed (Tuikkanen means something the same as stinging). And get certain consequences.
To comment on your so-called qualifications. You are far better qualified than you think. I would be willing to put money on the fact that, unlike most, you have probably been in a lot of fights with bladed weaponry, even if it's just sparing. Study is one thing. Putting it into practice is another. I studied military history and tactics when I was a kid. Then I joined the US Marines and found that out lol
He also worked with the UK Home Office regarding knife wounds/knife defense, so he has institutional experience as well. Probably why he mentions CCTV footage of "real fights" that would have shown up on public cameras
@tylerphuoc2653 Like I said, he is more qualified than he leads us to believe. He is too humble for his own good 😆. I've been following him ever since Drach did a collaboration video with him.
19:45 To your point, it does look like Paul is thrusting (and aiming for the less armored midsection) whereas Feyd is the one mainly slashing and maybe he’s just assuming a metal blade would work well enough against a stillsuit.
It's all fun games, until someone brought a laser weapon to a Dune fight.:v
Lasguns aren't common in Dune, because of the Holtzman-shields
@@Kroiznacher and on dune those shields arent common because of the worms
This has always confused me: can the full-body shields not protect the user from the blast caused by the exploding shield of another shield user, if the former shoots the latter with a lasgun?
@@Vlad_Tepes_III This ain't your average grenade size explosion. It's more off a nuclear size explosion. Hence everyone agreeing on melee fights. No one is going to survive that.
@@dariustiapula does that mean that the Holtzman shields have an upper limit for how much damage they can protect the user from?
I love how much you take into account cinematic language! I've seen a lot of HEMA content creators go on and on about choreography without taking into account the fact that the medium is inherently narrative. Actors can't all be martial artists, and even if they were some concessions still need to be made to the camera/audience. It would be incredibly unsatisfying if the climactic duel ended quickly, or if the audience couldn't keep up with the pace of the fight. You want the audience to be able to follow each exchange so that they are there with the characters. That requires some artistic liberties. Great video, love the breakdown!!
I live in Las Vegas and have been in multiple knife fights from the age of 12. As far as I'm concerned there are only 5 films that accurately describe how knife fights look.
Real knife fights last a few seconds, real knife fights go as follows
he who knows how to kill or mame the other first wins 99% of the time.
A stab or cut in high blood loss areas will result in a win.
He who attacks the fastest at the weapon hand disarming the opponent and achieves this, usually wins.
He who has the most layers and knows how to use them effectively to obsorb slashes usually wins.
Example wrap your jacket around your arm and use as a "shield."
Modern clothing will not stop Stabbing from occurring.
This is real life experience i hope it helps.
Bro is the North LV knight
Would love to see videos of these Italian close fighting techniques you've mentioned. Also always down for more movie fight reviews, Rob Roy or any others.
Matt already did Rob Roy, I think.
+][+
@titanscerw yeah but he mentioned on the video possibly revisiting it, and I'm all for that. Lol
Excellent review and breakdown, Matt. Missed opportunity though. You could have shown one of your antique Moro Kris knives to demo what a historical one actually is as opposed to the film version.
Much obliged. Enjoyed the breakdown of a fav fight in a fav movie. The first knife duel that caught my attention in a movie was in Behind Enemy Lines: Colombia; I'd be curious to see what you think of it.
You should check out "King Arthur" 2004. I remember it being pretty good, though it was a long time ago when I knew less. Should be some interesting stuff to pick apart in there.
I have done iai, iaido, iaijitsui, kendo, and Kenjitsui and one of my sensei did escrima. In order to not to damage the blade edge the back of the blade to block or re-direct, also often the knife is used backwards so the blade protects the wrist and the hilt is often used to hitting and sometimes the psycho stabbing motion is used. I understand the slashing motion which you are correct about is necessary to get into a position to stab even in samurai styles mainly kendo and Kenjitsui, iaido and iaijitsui. Another technique is to slide down the opponents blade to cut the hands..
The expressions Matt uses are so nice. "a resisting target, so to speak" :)
Matt, have you watched the self defence contest put on by Rokas? (Spelling?). One of the contestants started his knife defence fights on his back and defended with his feet. It worked pretty well for that scenario!
New to the channel. Have you ever reviewed the knife fight, or any of the sword fights from the 2002 production of The Count of Monte Christo with Guy Pearce and Jim Caviezel?
I have not, but I really like the film, so I should!
Hey Matt do you think you could look at the sword fight between Captain Haddock and Red Rackam in the 2011 Tintin movie
It's sweet to hear he knows about FMA. The part of this information that is not emphasized is that the fighting scenes in Dune are BALINTAWAK Eskrima based choreography. Balintawak is usually teached and practiced with 1 single stick, and not with a bladed weapon. It is in the core of FMA that you can use almost anything with the FMA moves, either edged or blunt weapons.
I think the owner of the channel is pretty familiar with all these (and probably much more as well), so I am not sure why this was not taken into consideration.
yes, this is a transposition of Balintawak single stick to a blade. Strange that the Author of this video didn't mention that...
With the knife you're holding at the beginning of the video, what is the point of the notch at the bottom of the blade and above the guard?
It feels like it would catch a blade but seems like it would increase the chance of the blade breaking.
Slashes are also an effective method for trying to impair the hand, wrist or forearm. A few choice or lucky slices could take out tendons or open some bleeding, which could help in the short term or definitely over time. They also have a place to open spaces, especially against a flurry press or less well-trained opponents.
Matt, have you done the SPL Killzone Allley fight between Donnie Yen and Wu Ying (Knife vs Baton)? It's from a Hong Kong movie but still done in a somewhat "realistic" way. It would be interesting to see your take on it.
I hope we can see future posts soon with a you & a partner going over these sticky technical Dune moves.
Great analysis, I’m subscribed now. One point though, about the slashing versus thrusting - people will tend to revert to the techniques they were taught, even if those techniques aren’t the most practical for the situation.
Feyd was trained mostly for duels in the arena, with little clothing and no armor. So he would instinctively use slashes, even against an opponent with light armor.
Paul (in the novel) was taught to cut,not stab, as stabbing “lacks artistry”. In a fight, he would tend to favor what he was taught.
The lesson for us all, then, is to be mindful of what we practice, since that will become our habit.
This is more complicated than a simple review, but I would love to see how you would make a sword fight version of my favorite fight scene of all time. I'm talking about the Robert Downy Jr's bare knuckles fight in Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes.
The reason I love the scene so much is that it gets around the classic problem of fight choreography, that you've talked about many times. Normally, a realistic fight between skilled fighters still looks sloppy, and is hard for the audience to follow, let alone gain any understanding of plot or character development.
So I'd love to see you choreograph a short, skillful sword fight, with the slow-mo version giving you time to explain the nuances involved, and then the full speed version still showing all of the things you described in the blink of an eye.
(If anyone else feels like taking a stab at this, please reply to this post with your results!)
Is there any info on the dagger he's holding in the thumbnail? Looks nice... I feel rather daggerless these days
I'm currently losing my mind trying to figure it out too.
He displays it in this video! ua-cam.com/video/dXOZ8xffAUk/v-deo.htmlsi=YcJOSE9oi-tBnDTQ
At 06:10 he pulls it out and refers to it as an Arkansas toothpick. Pretty unusual example if that's the case. It kinda has some german trench knife and hunting knife vibes.
Love your videos Matt. And I love Dune, so enjoying this one. Just my uneducated opinion on the slashes, especially in the last fight. To me slashes seem like the best way to create space and keep the opponent busy while you look for a gap. Just two guys stabbing at each other wouldnt make sense. Stab there , block, stab there , block and so on. While the slash might be the finishing strike, as they are in both these fights, even in rapier fencing you may slash for a reason. Such as disorientating the opponent, creating space or just keeping them busy while you look for a gap.