Was Syrio Forel Jaqen in Disguise?
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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Fun fact: everyone in Westeros is Jaqen.
Cercei is Jaqen in disguise.
Jon Snow is Jaqen in disguise.
Ser Ilyn is Jaqen in disguise, who cuts off the head of Ned Stark = also Jaqen in disguise.
Even Jaqen himself is of course Jaqen in disguise
And then even Jaqen is being warged by Bloodraven 😆
And Jaqen is actually Alpharius!
Patchface is definitely Jaqen. I know, I know, oh oh oh!
Actually, the real twist is that Jaqen is the only person who is NOT Jaqen in disguise.
And of course, Jaquen is actually Rhaegar. Who is a horse.
I swear, channels like In Deep Geek are keeping Got alive. I wouldn’t have found out or even bothered with Got if it weren’t for this channel
never done w GoT
If you've just started watching, do yourself a favour and stop watching after season 4 ends. Trust me, you'll be better off.
@@HOTD108_ There are still some great episodes after season 4 imo.
@@LoneWolfOfHouseStark1989 yea jus definitely dont watch the last season 🤣🤣
Me too maybe.
The biggest evidence for Jaqen being Syrio is that we liked Syrio for letting Arya be herself when most people wouldn't and don't want him to be dead for saving her life.
Okay you just answered my question I was wondering why so many people in the comments after watching this incredibly convincing video are still trying to defend the theory. I never really thought about it, I didn't really believe it anyways but this video pretty much debunks it.
@@charliericker274 people believe what they *want* to believe, often against all evidence (hey, that’s how religion works! ^^), and they want to believe that a beloved character is still alive.
I also have a soft spot for that theory but I must admitt that GRRM has to come up with some really unexpected twists to still make it work.
Regarding the show, just Google it 🙄 I won't give an opinion on the books since GRRM doesn't even seem to know where he's going with them
That’s more like the biggest reason why the theory exists, not evidence that it’s true :)
@@DocBree13 That's the point.
I could listen to Robert read the terms of service for my iPhone and still find it calming and engaging. That voice.
I doubt anyone in King's Landing would know what the first sword of Bravos would look like.
I don't like this theory, regardless of whether it is true or not. I like that Arya had a lot of different training from different people. She wasn't just a renegade Faceless Man, she was her own person. I also like how Martin fills out his world with a lot of named people with personalities who come and go, making it feel like a real world and not one where it feels like there is only a handful of real people and they are all conveniently crucial to the plot.
I agree. I can't say about the books but in the show the writers have confirmed Syrio is just dead.
The show leaving out so many named characters literally left them with no one to kill in the final seasons & particularly the long night! 🙄
@@shannond7437 Yep they just had a bunch of main characters swarmed where they should 100% been killed, but somehow they survive.
If Syrio truly didn't die at the hands of Meryn Trant, then there's no point to Martin introducing the character. The whole purpose of Syrio's character is to teach Arya that "every hurt is a lesson", with his death teaching her about how the world works. Syrio was better than Meryn Trant, but he fought against someone who had more resources (armor, steel sword, etc.) and so he was killed.
"but he fought against someone who had more resources (armor, steel sword, etc.) and so he was killed."
And that's main point of ASoIaF. You may be a hero. But that doesn't mean you won't be killed.
Well, to be fair, the later lesson was actually provided by the Hound to Arya. Before that, she seemed still pretty certain on looking at the situation more "romantically". But of course, Syrio's death put her in the situation where she learned that lesson from Sandor, i guess.
@@mixererunio1757 Exactly. You could say the same thing about Syrio that was said about Rhaegar. Syrio fought valiantly, Syrio fought nobly, Syrio fought honorably. And Syrio died.
Don't get me wrong Syrio is most probably dead... But if I were to have followed his advice and looked with my eyes I would have seen an out numbered and unarmored man kill several men with a stick who was surrounded by the swords of dead men whose only obstacle to freedom was one member of the King's guard that was largely known as ineffectual.
So my money would have been on Syrio all day long.
The hound basically confirms it. He said basically 'lol he died to a scrub like Trant?'. If Syrio were truly the sword of braavos then no way did he die to Trant.
The faceless men are only no one until they become someone. It's like creating an Avatar in reverse. strip everything away until only a husk remains, then become someone else.
They're many not one. No one.
All for one and one for all…
With all the people who’ve died in A Song of Ice and Fire, Syrio is the one I wish stayed a major player. He was (is?) such an interesting character.
Syrio: "What do we say to the God of Death??... Not today!"
Jaqen: "All men must die."
Yeah... polar opposite theological philosophies. There's no way that Jaqen is Syrio. It's a fun fan theory, but... That's all it is.
I will never understand the ongoing obsession with this character and the refusal to let him die. He was cool in part precisely because he went out like a G. Yet for some reason people just won't let him go. It's thoroughly bizarre.
Polar opposite worldviews could be the perfect disguise. :)
@@WarKrieg same here. It takes 20 seconds to Google that in the show the writers have confirmed Syrio is just dead. I havent read the books but going by this video nothing from the books suggest Syrio is Jaqen
You can tell they come from the same cultural background, but they're philosophy on the god of death is vastly different. Also important to remember that the faceless men are a religious order, not just very skilled assassins and Syerio is essentially committing heresy against the faceless men religion by saying that and jaqen would have avoided saying that unless it was absolutely necessary to stay in character
Also, if the Faceless Men had some special interest in training Arya that Jaqen/Syrio was assigned to, why did he leave Arya immediately after leaving Harrenhal, instead of finding an excuse to follow her and lead her to Braavos? The fact that Jaqen left Arya as soon as the both of them were free from Harrenhal, implies that Jaqen meeting her was happenstance, and everything he did for her really was a reaction to Arya getting him out of the wagon.
He can change his face. how to we know he really left?
Look, we just want this to be true. Let us have our fun!
I think he only thought to recruit her as she’d helped him and he her in return and he saw potential in the little Arya. An orphan lost in the war easily thought of as dead.
I see two possibilities. The first is that it’s a resourcefulness test the Faceless Men give to potential recruits (like Darth Bane’s test of the child Rain). The second is it’s because Jaqen knows or was told that Arya’s strong willed personality will require her to choose to go to The House of Black and White and choose to dedicate herself to the lessons there. Otherwise, she wouldn’t put as much effort into their teachings.
@@bipolarminddroppings He was clearly in Oldtown and murdered Pate for the key to the Citadel
@@bipolarminddroppings If you want a fun theory, how about the option that Syrio and Jaqen are two different faceless men working together, and Syrio killed Meryn Trant and then took his face? So now he has the form of a Kingsguard, perfectly positioned near the rulers of Westeros, being able to kill the entire Lannister royal family as soon as he gets the order from Braavos.
IF they are one in the same I don't think the Faceless Men were there for Arya. They were there to complete a contract. (Perhaps on Ned himself, paid for by Littlefinger who is the 1st character to show knowledge of the Faceless Men in the books) Ned seeking a dancing master for his daughter was the perfect way into The Red Keep. They weren't there for Arya. She was just the best way to get close to Ned. Everything else was happenstance. Joffery had Ned killed nullifying the contract and in the fall out Jaqen saw something in Arya as he made his escape. Thats a big IF but possible.
I agree. Robert said it himself in this video - the Faceless men must have interacted with Arya to take an interest in her. Yes, Jaqen was hired to kill Ned (as Robert established in the previous part), and he probably replaced Syrio at some point for that purpose (probably the moment he learned about this opportunity to move into Ned's inner circle).
Indeed. Confusing that he doesn’t include this possibility in this video as he made a video on it previously.
@@r-a-ray Yeah... and Robert says that Jaquen and the Faceless men take a long time to study their targets... I believe he said something along the lines 'He might have sat in the black cells for months'. Why sit in the cells when you could be right next to Ned? And when you kill a man, he is dead, it is best to see about those left behind and how they are going to react or to take revenge. It is one of the reasons why a lot of times the whole family was killed of a ruler. Arya was someone way more dangerous to leave alive than anyone thought, but Jaquen might have seen that potential when he met her.
The first thing he might have noticed was that she didn't give up, and that is very important. If she was just going through a phase and was taking up the sword on a whim, maybe he kills Ned sooner. Her determination piques his interest, he may know of Little Finger's other plans for Ned (even if Little Finger didn't tell him) so he knows a good escape route to find her. The rest is Martin plot armor to get Arya from point A to point B to continue her training. Martin then notices how clunky this is so leaves Syrio's death vague. Martin tries to write realistically, doesn't mean he is successful at it 100% of the time. I mean, Sansa should have never lived as long as she did without some hefty plot armor.
I agree! Why did the faceless men have to be there for Arya. That was a big part of the video that annoyed me they focused on the mentoring Arya, but they could have been there for a number of reasons and a good way to get into the Red Keep was Arya so they became Syrio. Then when Syrio was caught and put into the dungeons he changed faces and went with the Black Brothers maybe just to get out in general or maybe for another reason who knows. Arya just happened to be with them and he continued to mentor her because he saw a lot in her while being Syrio. I agree he could have been there for Ned and then he was killed so hey its time to go see yeah Red Keep. So much of that video didn't rake a lot into account that made sense. The faceless men have to become someone else so their world views and the way they talk shouldn't be taken serious since of course they would change that to fit the person... Duh. Still hold this theory possible.
Littlefinger using the faceless men to try and kill Ned seems like a pretty needless expense, like one of the most established things we know about the Faceless Men is that they are prohibitively expensive above and beyond even regular assassins, especially the more prominent the target is. Furthermore, the Faceless Men, as is mentioned in the video, much prefer low-profile disguises and (at least in the books) deaths that appear natural/accidental rather than theatrical martial displays, so disguising as Syrio doesn’t really do all that much for Jaqen in terms of assassinating Ned where taking the identity of one of his household guard could be much better suited. Littlefinger does technically command a lot of wealth as master of coin, but it’s subject to some amount of scrutiny by Ned (and Jon Arryn before him), almost certainly by Varys and probably at least a little bit by the various lenders, embezzling the money necessary to hire a faceless man would not go unnoticed, certainly if not by them then at the very least by Tyrion when we see him pour over Petyr’s finances in both book and show, and though Petyr does command some personal wealth on the side a considerable amount of that doubtless goes into maintaining his network of informants and spies and it’s generally nothing close to the wealth he controls as master of coin (and later lord of harrenhal and protector of the Vale). Plus Petyr doesn’t have much reason to want Ned dead in the short term, he’s actually very useful to him politically as by helping him along in his investigation Petyr then gets to betray Ned to the Lannisters and get substantially rewarded for it, or if Robert Baratheon had survived he could have still taken credit for helping Ned out and been rewarded - either way the chaos Ned’s investigation creates gives Petyr the room for the political advancement he so craves and Ned is much too honest and forthright to pose much of a threat to him, and even if he did want Ned dead the Faceless Men would be very hard to commission and completely overboard for a goal that could just as easily be achieved by arranging for Ned to be killed during one of his many investigations in the shadier parts of town
"but we don't see ___'s corpse" can easily be explained with "GRRM didn't want to write himself into a corner".
if he, suddenly, wants Syrio to appear wherever, he can just do it, because we've never seen the corpse. if he wants Syrio to be really dead, we'll never see him again in ASOIAF.
ok, but why Syrio, you could do that with every character.
@@diox8tony I do agree that he can do it with everyone in this situation. I mentioned Syrio, because he is the object of this vid.
It's also good for us readers not knowing that everytime a death is not shown they survived. The "results" need to vary to keep us on our toes.
Keep some things for us to ponder about.
@@1Dreamking Except that GRRM ALWAYS show death scenes. That's why people are saying Syrio is alive. Because we never find out. Which means... he didn't die.
GRRM does love to leave loose threads, it's part of why we have so many theories.
The thing is these skills - disguise and seeing through them, are complimentary.
Jaquen aka the Alchemist is doing it himself when he scopes out Arya.
I was just going to say this. The skills complement each other, they aren't opposites. However, I still think I agree with his conclusion.
the single fact he beat up 4 knights with a stick... even first sword of bravos wouldnt do that.... GOT is not a world where you win with wooden sword against trained knights... cmon
@@ImotekhtheStormlord-tx2it It wasn't knights that he beat up, it was regular Lannister guards. There was only one knight there, the not overly impressive Meryn Trant, who only engaged after the guards went down and he seemingly kills Syrio.
Furthermore, it's rather a faceless man that wouldn't be beating up several people at once. They are assassins, not warriors.
I'm loving this faceless Men series. Your channel is one of my favorites Robert thank you
Your channel is top 1 about ASOIAF. Just love your voice, way you presents and high quality of audio. Pure perfection 💪🏻
LML is atleast as good as in deep geek but they are def top 2
Man it was so cool to listen to u build up your own theory and then tear it right back down before anyone else could. Bravo
Syrio was my favorite character.
Great video as ever! I think a huge part of it, as you alluded to, is that syrio forel is just really cool. And people naturally want that characfer to continue to be relevant after such a short stint in the story.
One suggestion I'd like to make for a livestream topic, if I may, is the kingsguard. Many members are referenced throughout the material, and I'd love to hear your takes on them, and I think it would lend itself well to being framed around patron questions!
I really appreciate the definitive answer, very convincing.
Given Arya’s importance for global events in the GoT world, it’s possible that Jaqen was given some prophecy and knew where to go and whom to look for.
Disguising himself as Syrio isn’t “out in the open” if there’s no chance of being found out and the notoriety allows an easy path to achieve his goal.
Arya does a similar feat when, after killing Walder Frey she disguised herself as Walder Frey to then kill everyone else at the feast.
It’s basically the same thing. Sometimes the last place you’d look for someone is out in the open…
Surely the fact that you have to come up with your own contrived prophecy that doesn't exist in the source material for this theory to make sense implies that the theory is wrong.
This is exactly why these theories crop up. People tie themselves into knots trying to justify a theory they want to be true.
Re Syrio and Jaqen being opposites : who better to stop assassins than an assassin? A killer wouldn't change his face and then tell Arya the same things he told her as a previous persona. If anything the polar shift is more evidence for Jaqen and Syrio being one.
People forget, or don't know, that Jaqen is a skinchanger like Arya and Beran too. If he wanted he could warg into whoever if he was powerful enough. Like Bran into Hodor, Jaqen could have jumped into Syrio after scoping out the castle through any of the cats. He told Arya to catch a cat and she might have been chasing Jaqen all along. Jaqen then learns about her gift and when shit goes down he wargs into syrio . "What do we say to the god of death? Not today." Technically Jaqen didn't die.
Hell, Syrio could have been the faceless man and let himself be killed and then did a second life into Jaqn in the black cells. The crazy battle for his body could be why Rorge and biter are scared of him.
@@ThumbBandit04what evidence is there for Jaqen being a skin changer? As far as I’m aware, he is only shown to have the magic of the faceless men, that being to change his face. Arya was shown to warg into a cat while at the house of black and white, but no such implication was given for Jaqen
@@thedarkcod4824 When they are talking about the girl's virginity going on sale for 1 dragon, there's a bird that is mentioned in the description of the scene.It's how Jaqen knew exactly what lever to pull
That is a leap of faith too far. And you managed to take five more after the first. Wow, you should be writing books with your imagination, though no-one would be able to follow. @@ThumbBandit04
Syrio has always been my favorite. I embrace this theory because it keeps in the story longer.
So help to revisit your channel now that I have listened to the books!!!❤❤❤😊
Ive always thought so. He said something to Arya from the cage to make himself stand out. This is why she thinks of saving him. After that he like. You saved me I’ll give you three. Knowing she has a list.
You may have heard of the “One Electron Universe” theory where one electron plays the role of every electron in the universe, but have you heard of the One Jaqen Universe theory wherein even Aya herself is also Jaquen?
I think Syrio was the first sword for the Sealord that Dany and Vicerys lived with in their early days. And then Illyrio hatched the fAegon plan and deposed that Sealord(and took his Dragon Eggs) putting the young targs on the street.
I suppose that would make sense if Illyrio was trying to fabricate a situation where the kids would be dependent on his generosity. Yeah, that kinda fits! He could have had that contingency plan all along, playing multiple hands to see whether the trueborn targs or Faegon would be most beneficial.
I thought about this for awhile honestly I'm glad you made a video
Been binging your content for the last month. Great stuff! Keep it up
For me, how quickly Jaquin took to training Arya - having not interacted much with her as Jaquin - seems to be the strongest suggestion as to why he took an interest in her. As to why he was training her in the first place, this fits perfectly with the little finger theory. Arya's dance tutor was the only position available in Neds household at the time. When the situations changes he then moves to the black cells to be close to Ned as the situation evolves.
It's just like GRRM to set up the possibility and never give a resolution.
So for me it makes sense that he could be, but doesn't give us much reason to believe he is.
Just Google it. The writers confirmed in the show, Syrio is dead. I havent read the books yet but judging by what was said in the video then there is nothing to suggest Syrio is Jaqen
I would be so happy if Syrio survived. It doesn't feel likely but I will hope. He somehow became a favorite of mine even tho his part is small
You are 98% right, to me,
I also remember it that way, but was it near the head of that nanny..meh.
so in the show when arya runs away, you hear the swords clashing and you hear 1 sword fall to the ground. The one sword that falls on the ground is a iron sword, hitting the ground. not a wooden sword hitting the ground. so he survived it for sure.
@@R0y89 I thought that too but you never know with the people making things. They might not have thought the sound through. Hope still lives tho. I can't remember reading anything about his head on a spike and maybe the creators of the show got told something about his future.
If the books ever come out will see 😆
Amazing video as always. Can't wait for the next part
Very well done . Can’t wait for more
What you are missing is how all three men greet Arya when they first meet her. They all call her boy. A boy is late, Come here boy and A boy can make a friend. The first time Arya is mistaken for a boy is by Tommen when she is catching cats. So her first ever experience of being someone else, a commoner( no one) is when she is training with Syrio. Is it maybe possible that a man in the dungeons persuaded a man of the Nights watch to save Arya by persuading them to call her a boy?
Bc she looks like a boy lol
Came in to the comments for a similar reason, but I might argue (whether he knew beforehand, or not) Syrio called her boy before the courtyard scene, and was the first to acknowledge Arya under a different viewpoint, thus grooming her into the faceless lifestyle
Arya's pretty non-binary, so confusion between girl and boy may just be so because of the inherent non-binariness she shows from pretty much the first few pages on her. Still, an interesting ask.
Syrio calls her a boy because girls cant practice with swordplay. Joren calls her a boy because she cant be Arya( if she wants to live). Jaqen calls Arya a boy to keep up her ruse.
If I begin from the assumption that they are the same person then it makes perfect sense that the faceless men would use a famous face to develop a connection to Arya to create the opening to assassinate Ned and escape alive. It continues to make sense that Syrio would fake his death and make his way to the dungeons to try to kill Ned on his way north. It continues to make sense that when he found out that Ned is already dead and that Arya is there and been made into a killer by her lose that he would want to continue training and testing her. Once she shows him her ruthlessness by giving him his own name he knew he wanted to recruit her.
Trant is going to allow Syrio to "fake" his death. Jaqen is not going to spend weeks and weeks getting close to Arya just so he can get close to Ned. No time for that. Arya made into a killer??!?!? One stable boy does not a serial killer make. And how in the world did Jaqen learn Arya was a killer? And why is Jaqen in the black cells if his target is already dead. He would have skipped town long ago.
Loved the vintage newsprint for the "labels" - you really transformed this throwaway piece! I was thinking the newsprint works make nice drawer liners, too - decoupaged into place.
ty for the vid Rob!
The disguise of a Faceless Man is more than just their physical appearance - they take on a whole new persona. I'm not convinced by the argument that because Syrio and Jaquen present different world views, they must be different people. In fact, Syrio's persona would make a perfect introduction to the Faceless Men for Arya. Her head was already full of stories of knights and epic battles and Syrio approached her training with as sense of adventure. It was meant to entice her before fully immersing her in the culture of the Faceless.
Just Google it 😒 the writers confirmed in the show Syrio is dead.
The biggest issue with theory isn't Syrio and Jaqen's beliefs, it's the bit about there being no reason for them to take notice of Arya at that point. Unless the Faceless Men had a prophecy about 'The daughter of wolves' or something like that, it makes no sense for them to send someone to train her.
ofc his arguments are contradicting themselves when you watch all scenes when jaqen is training arya... idk HOW ppl can be still 100% convinced it wasnt jaqen.
@@ImotekhtheStormlord-tx2it Read the books
How in the world did they learn of Aryas fantasies?! Syrio has been in Kings landing for months. Trant just kills anybody that isnt a sword master, which would turn Jaqen into goo.
Wouldn't training Arya also put Jaquen close to Ned? Like he would be if he ended up in the caravan where Ned was supposed to be?
yes this would oppose the other theory that he was sent to kill Ned
There were a bunch of swords laying on the ground that the other guards Syrio downed had dropped; he could have easily just picked one up, and then it would be a 1v1 fight with steel, and I feel like he’d be unlikely to lose, unless more guards heard the commotion and ran in and overwhelmed him. To think he would just stand there with a wooden sword and die instead of using his environment to his advantage in even the simplest of ways seems pretty silly. I like to think he did make his escape, but just left immediately because he wasn’t safe anymore in a city where he was wanted by the queen for somewhere far away, maybe back to braavos, which is why we never see him again.
Fair point. I feel that Syrio would have made some effort in seeing Arya safe though. As he says, The first Sword of Bravos doesnt run.
There's a few things you didn't consider Robert. First is that while Syrio was famous, that was in Bravos not Kings Landing. Secondly, the difference in ideology might be attributed to Jaquen just playing the part. The third is that Jaquen probably went to Kings Landing looking for something else, maybe what he's looking for in the Citadel now, in the guise of the tutor and only the gained an interest in Arya.
That still misses the caravan part. He is faceless and could've escaped king's landing anytime. It's more likely he was an assassin hired by Littlefinger to kill Ned on the way too the wall and then discovered Arya.
You are just wishing the theory to be true. Reread your points, they are ridiculous. The amount of trade and travel between Kings Landing and Bravos is huge. That is why many people know Syrio and he has such a high reputation .Trying to conjure up some mission for Jaqen is just self justification. And your second point is like saying that character said a thing and so he is the murderer. Its just a non point.
I find it more likely that they may have actually known each other, Syrio was a prominent public figure in Bravos and Jaquen seems to have been an important member of the faceless. While they may not have been friends it wouldn't been strange if their paths had crossed in a political or even professional sense. I wouldn't be surprised if the Faceless Men hired someone like Syrio as an instructor on occasion, more skill with a sword isn't a bad thing after all.
Oh, I'm fully convinced that the Iron Bank, the Sealord, and the House of Black and White form a sort of "branches of government" situation in Braavos. As prominent lieutenants in the (essentially) executive and judiciary branches, Syrio and Jaqen could very well have had professional reasons to meet.
I think Jaquen teaches Aria to know what other people want or expect to see and then be it. The best disguise is looking like you are supposed to be there. It lines up with Sereo’s teaching to look through those things well.
Your voice is very soothing and makes a good bedtime listen.
You said in a previous video that Jaqen was hired by Littlefinger to assassinate Ned which is a theory I like. It could be that Jaqen wanted to get close to Ned by impersonating Syrio
I think both book and tv Syrio serve the purpose of "don´t judge a book by it´s cover" very well. I see it as they show Arya she can be what she wants to be, despite being a noble or a girl. About cats...it´s so true, we see what we want to see. Had a white fluffy one ,everyone always went: oh, she´s so cute. All HE wanted to do was attack their feet...Total camouflage😄He wasn´t Jaquen either.
half the posters in here will now come up with theories that actually, in fact, your cat was actually Jaqen.
He's Rhaegar.
YES!!!! I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS THE OTHER DAY THANK YOU FOR THE CONTENT
Love your content, thank you!
I always expected Syrio to have survived, though I never thought of him as a faceless man, much less Jaqen; though I would love it if that were true.
To steel man the point, it could be possible that the lessons Syrio taught were preliminary, thus if he was Jaqen, he didnt feel the need to tell her everything all at once, focusing on survival and defence before offence. So he played the character, pretending to be the first sword of Braavos, with all of the swagger and bravado that would entail. It is worth noting that nobody seems to recognize him, even though he was supposedly skilled enough that Ned knew to hire him. He could have continued to follow and protect Arya because he was hired to protect her by Ned, and the faceless men, whatever else they may be, seem to be renowned for their ability to see any job through to the end.
When Trant came for Arya he assumed the worst had happened, but, knowing that she believed Syrio dead, and since "all men must die" he decided to take another face and continue what he was hired to do in secret; allowing her to learn the lesson, and him to see her safely out of Lannister hands.
Ultimately, I agree that this is unlikely, but certainly not impossible. A part of me always hoped that Syrio would re-appear in some form though, so even I'll admit I'm reaching.
You know, something I'd never thought of before (though I'm sure others have, and maybe it's mentioned in the video, I'm only about halfway through at the moment)...What if Syrio isn't Jaqen, but a different faceless man and he took on Meryn Trant's identity?!
I can't say I like that theory or think it's likely at all, nor do I know what the point might be. Just a weird thought.
Edit: But yeah in the end, I think Syrio was just Syrio. He's basically the stereotypical hero's journey mentor who has to die. And thing is, I think he was fine with it. There are much worse things to have on your tombstone than "Died saving a child from capture and possible death."
omg, you are making me rewatch the first season.
I saw something where GRRM admitted to the outlander writer or director that he had backed himself into a corner with winds of winter. He realized he had killed off a character that he needed. I was wondering which character that might be and thought you’d be a good person who could probably make a video on it with some good ideas! Just a suggestion!
Hmm
Ah but what if Syrio was a faceless man hired by Cersi to kill Ned early on, and was training Ayra as a way to get close to Ned? In that case Syrio wouldn't be telling Ayra anything real about the faceless men philosophy, he'd be telling her what Syrio would have taught her which explains the difference.
I'm pretty sure somewhere GRRM straight up said they aren't the same person, I'm holding on to the idea that he was just being tricksy with his words 😂
It's been a while since I read the books, but IIRC, didn't we later have a POV chapter from Cersei where she was considering hiring an assassin's group and considered the Faceless Men too expensive?
Yes.@@Katerine459
GRR Martin introduced a magical disguise ability. This allows fans to apply it anywhere they please. And the TV show plants like speech patterns and reference to a god of death. But these hints don't exist in the book.
I came here originally in 2018/2019 for the ASOIAF content, but I kind of wish you would have finished out breaking down Westworld.
Thank you for all your great content!
I’d only add that if you overlay Ned being the target of the Faceless Men, then the theory of Jaqen being Syrio actually fits much better. Far better than his motivation being to train Arya. How better to kill a Lordly target than sign onto hls service, then when Ned is arrested, Syrio becomes Jaqen and gets himself thrown into the Black Cells, to be with him, not to track Arya. One other thing - we never hear Meryn Trant claim he killed Syrio. The nearest we get get is Cersei saying to Tyrion “I sent Meryn Trant to take the girl in hand when Robert died, but her wretched dancing master interfered and the girl fled.” So it’s at least equivocal. George doesn’t do such for no reason. While I mostly agree with you - the most powerful evidence to me is that Arya has a string of mentors - Jon, Ned, Syrio, Yoren, Jaqen, various members of the BWB, the Hound - and I can’t really see why two of them would be Jaqen and then he just dances off. But the theory has longevity - despite it being pronounced dead more times than many characters.
I came to say this. Given that this idea was presented earlier in this video series I think it makes more sense. Little finger was clearly planning this for a while and was willing to go to great lengths, so it fits as a way to get an assassin close.
This theory is presented again and again just in different shades. There was simply no possible way to know that Arya would need or want a "dancing instructor". Syrio had been in Kings Landing for months. He is a known quantity. The Faceless men do not take on the personality of their mimics.
Syrio's story of being the former First Sword to the Sea Lord of Braavos has always struck me as suspicious. Why would the former First Sword be reduced to teaching a little girl in the Red Keep water dancing? There is so much more that such a person could do, assuming he somehow lost his prestigious job. Also, he would be a fairly famous fighter, à la Ser Barristan Selmy, or even Jaime Lannister. Is there any other outside source backing Syrio's story? As for Arya's problems with her identity, the fact that she wanted to train with a sword was, in itself, enough to raise awareness to a sharp observer that it might be the case. In regard to his death at the sword of Ser Meryn Trant, we know enough from the description of the confrontation between him and the Lannister crew to surmise that it would have been unlikely. Also, if you look at what this particular Faceless man has done so far in Westeros, from King's Landing to Harrenhal to Oldtown, it really isn't such a stretch to see him as the mystery man who first taught Arya how to handle a sword and, more importantly, survive in this world.
Because he was being paid by another very wealthy lord to do so. It says more about Ned's wealth than Syrio's career prospects. He presumably lost his job when a new Sealord took office.
@@ssl3546 Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. New Sea Lord, new bodyguards.
At least yours is the first to acknowledge that Syrio would indeed be famous. He was a known quantity in Kings Landing. Westeros has a lot wealth. Lieutenants fall out of favor with some regularity. Could be good to get some of that Lannister Gold.
Amazing vid!
thanks for the video
Is it possible that the faceless men had a spy in King Robert"s company on his travel to meet Ned Stark and ask him to become his Hand ? Then he would know of Arya challenging Joffrey and even beating him. So this could have triggered their interest in her, even before she arrived in Kings Landing.
Faceless men are not spies. A Death cult, and a sparsely populated one, couldn't be wasting all that time for possibilities and what ifs. The God needs bodies.
While the faceless men would have had no reason to plant one of them in the Stark household to begin training Arya to be a future faceless man, it would be very plausible for that role to have been utilized to get a faceless man in the Stark household. There are some good reasons to not believe Syrio and Jaqen are not one and the same, but that they'd have no reason at all to not have one them train Arya before the fall of House Stark isn't one of them, since it is quite possible for it to have at that time be a means, not an end for the faceless men.
Well done video
wow! i was searching for this very topic about an hour ago
One final question how did jaqen know what syrio said to arya? Or was that coincidence
What did Jaqen say that was seemingly quoting Syrio? I don’t remember.
@@mixolydia3309 When Jaqen reveals himself to arya at the house of black and white and is explaining what they do there he says " There is only one god, a girl knows his name, and all men know his gift." Which could just be coincidence but i dont think so. He also knew where in the ocean the coin was that she threw. Thats some Bran level shit
Hey, if you haven't already, can you do a video on who actually died (if anyone) when Jaqen drank the poison in the bottle. It's always puzzled me because the waif then becomes Jaqen, but then we see both of them in other scenes. So who actually died.... was it truly no one? No one has to be someone, right?
I think there are only 3 possible answers here.
1. Jaquen developed immunity or had antidote to the poison.
2. It was a dream/hallucination
3. Faceless man isn't actually a human, but some kind of higher entity, a god. I don't recall seeing two faceless men at the same time.
@Kristijan option 3... wasn't the waif a faceless man, she could change appearances too.
@@juliant She was still in training, Arya didn't complete her training, she left early and was still able to disguise to kill Frey. I don't know how the new members would transition from trainees to full time faceless men, but it's really odd how we NEVER saw another faceless man or even heard about one.
I don't think they're the same man either. Excellent video!
What a fun thought!
Most likely possible outcome to me is that Meryn Trant ran away.
Meryn never talked or busted about killing the first sword of Bravos as Syrio introduced himself to him, so it's possible that this fight ended in an unpleasant way to him.
And Trant is a boaster.
I D G !!!!!
That's that, then. Well-summarized
I just finished rewatching Game of Thrones. I really like Jaquen and Syrio
Currently watching it now for the second time. Such a great show!
The way you deduced that Syrio as a bodyguard had acquired anti-faceless men strategies is just splendid.
Lol wut?? This is terrible logic. The best counter espionage agents are spies. It would be more likely that he acquired those strategies by being one of them. This whole video was full of giant gaps in logic like this.
some things i really love the show for. one of my top three reasons is how syrio and arya part. “what do we say to the god of death?” “not today.”
the relationship he has with arya is so sweet to me. i adore every person who went above and beyond to protect her.
Haven't watched it yet, just felt like sharing that I never even considered this as a possibility, holy shit.
I love the theory (which I think I first heard on this channel) that Jaquen was hired to kill Ned on the road north
It feels like, from what you say, that right before the fight where nobody can see or hear or have any sort of physical proof that he is dead.... he says "hey don't believe anything you can't see or hear". Foreshadowing his own not seen nor heard death. I feel like if I was secret assassin masquerading as the First Sword I would do my fair bit of lying. "Oh ThE fIRsT sWoRd DoEs NoT rUn" *proceeds to scurry off because he is not the REAL first sword (whoms't doesn't run) and is in fact a faceless man (prone to running and trickery). I feel like this dude said what needed to be said to get to his target, which was not to kill but to protect so that in the future she could serve the nameless god, so that she would believe in him and take his teaching seriously. Then did classic faceless man shit as soon as she left. Knowing that she would listen and not assume he was dead. But like a lot of things that you think would happen in GoT things get crossed, she doesn't realize his teachings were literal, and we end up here. WHEW. I am a little toasted does any of that make sense?
Just no. A death cult doesnt do bodyguard work. And how in the world did this Bravosi cult learn about an insignificant little 10 year old girl is going to be the Next jesus of death?!?!
There's an oddity that you didn't mention: how was Ned able to retain Syrio in the first place? It wasn't a prestigious assignment, and he probably didn't have the money. This was a mystery to me from the moment he showed up in the book.
Resume padding?
Pretty sure Ned had plenty of money. He was the lord of the entire North, and the Hand of the King. He just didn't flaunt his wealth, because... well... he's Ned Stark.
@Katerine459 yeah, but he's pretty cheap and it was rare to see him spend large amounts. I think it's a little joke by GRRM about the stereotypes of people in the north of the UK.
@@timtheskeptic1147 I wouldn't say he's "cheap." More that his priorities are straight, and he doesn't spend money on frivolities or status symbols. But when something's important to him (and literally nothing is more important to him than the people he loves), he'd do pretty much anything, including spend money. :)
teaching the offspring of the number2 ruler in the land in the Red Keep was not prestigious?!?!?! Man, I cant believe to fathom what would be prestigious in your world. Sword master to the faceless god himself?
Rhaegar being Jaqen Hagar in disguise was always one of favourite theories :)
Thank you rubbert!
First, I need to say that I have only watched the series and never read the books. And maybe it's a huge stretch:
I think there is a possibility that they are the same person. Maybe Syrio was hired to train Arya by Ned, and Jaqen was hired by someone to kill Ned (as you mentioned in previous video) and saw this as an opportunity to get closer to his target. He killed Syrio and assumed his identity to observe Ned, to study him. In the process, he developed sympathy for the young Stark girl, and when he saw her again fleeing and with no more contract to assassinate her father, he took her under his wing.
Better get to reading.
Do you think in the books Arya will discover evidence in the House of the Faceless Men that they were paid to kill Ned? Perhaps that's the final straw that gets her to turn on them / leave?
As cool as this idea is, they dont really strike me like the kind of organization to keep files of past contracts and such, maybe i just hate the idea of faceless men having an office filled with paper pushers xD
@@Grancigul All men must die, but not before filling out form 24c and submitting a notarized 13b.
havent watched vid yet but i remember back when like season 3 was out i started theorizing this
When Arya put on her first face she got some memories from the girl who's face she wore. It would be helpful in pulling off the faces you wear. To know there memories and thoughts. This is why I think this is possible.
I suggested this years ago and I was called crazy.
I was just thinking about the quote regarding the goddess of death today!
Thank you for covering this
Really excited for the next video in the series. Arya is one of my favourite characters, although I've only watched the show. But she is definitely the person my childhood self would have wanted to be the most. Feel free to make many more videos about her :)
I suggest reading the books. I recently read them all and was blown away. I'm kind of jealous you still have that journey ahead of you.
Yeah. Even if you’re not concerned with plot differences between show and books, the books puts you in the character’s heads and provide a ton of depth into their decisions and behaviors
I this this motion. The series (or at least the first 4 seasons, before things went off the rails) feels like a shortened, highlights reel of the books. The world of the books is so muck richer and more deeply developed, with so much insight into the characters and their surroundings, I need to go back and read them over and over again every so often, almost like I do with Lord of the Rings. They're just that good!
I think The writers of the show were clever and knew that this would get tied together. It’s a fun theory I like it.
Maisie Williams asked D&D if Syrio was alive and if he was Jaqen and they told her no, Syrio got killed. The Hound was right, Syrio is dead because Trant had an armour and big sword.
Short answer……
OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love the content!
The Faceless Men might have known something about Wargs, and the Starks connection to Wargs. In that case Serio might have been aimed at any one of the Stark children, and Aria is the one who is accessible. They weren't aimed at *Aria*, they were aimed at a Stark/Warg, any one of them. It is a thin thread to hang on, but it is one possibility that Robert didn't address here.
I love this theory. Even if it makes less sense in the books. I still have unanswered questions about the character. Maybe Jaqen was in king’s Landing being hired by Little Finger as you suggest but possibly not. Where was he going? Going specifically to north, Winterfell or Wall? Or was he just trying to get out of Kings Landing? We just don’t know because next we see him in the Citadel
If possible, you should do some videos on the stormlight archive! It’s a great fantasy series that I think you could explore really well!
I'm more interested in who Jaqen was there to kill. In the show I kind of assume if Syrio and Jaqen are the same faceless man, that Jaqen is just an arbitrary face he uses to get out of king's landing after whatever happened with Meryn Trant. And the cart is his escape pod. Im not sure I thought it out how different Syrio is in the books, but when I read I find myself thinking about how and why Jaqen is in the black cells, and who hired him. Im pretty sure I saw your previous video on the subject.
Very good point and we might never know but he did obviously return to Braavos indicating he’d completed his task or someone else did. If it was to kill Ned he chose a strange way to escape being locked in the cage with biter and Co. Nobody at the actual wall was worth the cost of killing and they kept themselves free from the problems of the Seven Kingdoms. So whoever was the target actually died allowing his return.
The question that struck me as yet unanswered is why the heck was Jaqen even in the dungeons of KingsLanding and on its way north in the first place when his destination was Oldtown ...
Faceless man series is a winner. I like all of your content, but this probably my favorite so far.
Also, I’ve seen a couple comments mention the theory that Jaqen was sent for Ned (from the earlier video). If Syrio were Jaqen, why wait? Yes, I know they study their tartlets, but it seems like he would’ve had ample opportunity to figure something out before it all went sideways in King’s Landing.
Oh that's the first theory that has interested me in for since season 7 of the show
You're right about the evidence being flimsy at best. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Arya was observed by powerful ones early on, just like Bran...
BTW: Jacken was probably in the cells hoping to get close to Ned!
This has always been my theory. I am surprised it isn't a more popular theory.
I so much like to listen to. Every piece is like a scholarly work. I hope you're not offended when I say that for me you're the professor of ice and fire.
The other thing you miss is it J got himself put in the black cells to head north, then why didn't he continue heading north after leaving herrenhal. I think his mission was already done and him going to the nights watch was part of his exit strategy
The one clue I heard, was that after Arya ran you heard the sound of a sword falling on stone, giving the idea Meryn got disarmed.