My pet theory is that Greywater Watch isn't a place at all, but a watch like the Night's Watch. An order of the Neck's most capable rangers, protecting the ruling Lord and his advisors. They can make & break camp in hours and move the entire council to somewhere else entirely so there's no way to simply "capture the castle" and suddenly control the entire Neck. The idea that there's a literal floating castle somewhere in the bogs - one that no outsider has ever seen (really? not even allies?) - is just a red herring the crannogmen put about to lure invaders on a fools' errand.
I'm assuming that they at least move the lord's residence often. Kinda like how the Mongols dismantle their yurts and move with the available grass for their herd.
AND several Rods worth of Valyrian steel to represent the huge amount of study given to the dark, ancient history of the World That ASOIAF Happens To Take Place On.
Definitely agree with your moving castle explanation. Another thing about swamps is that they are essentially giant tidal rivers, which migrate over land and constantly change depth. If you didn't live in the area and didn't have something like a flat-bottomed boat to traverse, you'd get endlessly lost trying to follow landmarks which are ever-changing.
@@thomasleonardis711 you know that meme of the kid asking "why not both?" is what I'm thinking of. What do you think of the idea of a moss/wood artificial island bound up, perhaps magically, by leathern thongs o' squisher hide?
I once took a world religion class where we compared Howles Moving Castle with world religions… my favorite class I’ve ever taken. I’ve also always thought the cranogmen must be inspired by HMC. Can’t wait to see how Calcifer comes into play as a very important character to the story. Who would have thought, fire demons in Ice & Fire?! Get outta town!
@ThommyofThenn Some are, some aren't. A healthy swamp will move like that, especially if the bog of the swamp is a natural spring. Others whether due to beavers or what have you will absolutely become stagnant, diseased, and smelly.
From the misty swamps they come, clad in shadow. You hear their cries of battle but cannot meet them. For the swamp takes all who try to follow. Swamps are already spooky places, chuck in a bit of horror and the cracknock men come very dangerous
@@fuzzyhair321yes a cool scene indeed. Imagine shrieks off in the distance. Then silence. You know another one of your men was just pulled beneath the bog. The fog dude…. Imagine seeing torches of ur men in the distance through the fog. Then a shriek and silence and their touch extinguished as it was dropped into the muddy water, its carrier plucked from existence by an unknown crannogan.
I'm still early in the video, but, if you've never heard of "Chinampas" floating gardens/farms, I encourage you to look them up. Floating structures like that are very real, and possible with basically stone/bronze age tech. Really amazing.
For perspective in Florida we have this giant I mean massive sinkhole called Paynes Prairie just outside of Gainesville. 160 years ago it was a full on lake. 14 years ago it was a full on plains with wild horses and water Buffalo, after some local fires gators moved into the area and within we years the whole area is going back swamp/lake with many of the structures put up after WWII submerged or impassable to get to with out a boat. In nearby Ocala national forests "ninja trails" are beat through swamps that you should only follow if you've got boots and proofing feet. That is too say you don't just stomp around and you follow the grass grains.
The Neck reminds me so much of the swamps here in the South, specifically south Mississippi and south Louisiana. Lots of weird things, people living on the water, mysteries and legends, and a whole culture and people in it.
I think I just figured it out, in howls moving castle, Howl will trades his heart for magic where he lets it live on in a fire demon that is a fallen star, Starfall, which is the Danes home, it all fits
the fact that lizard-lions are not crocs or alligators could be related to the neck not always being swampy, the lizard lions are probably recently descended from more terrestrial ancestors, like the real life kaprosuchus or araripesuchus, and they haven't had the time to evolve back into the more standard crocodile form.
You are completely changing my views and feelings about the Iron Born and the Crannogmen with these videos and giving me so much more appreciation for the entire series. Thank you for all the hard work!!!
HBO's casting of the Iron Born in GOT was abysmal. Every single casting decision was phoned in and generic. The only worse casting was the 2nd iteration of The Mountain, which had ZERO connection or similarities to the 1st and 3rd castings.
I cannot even tell you how excited I am to FINALLY have a video about the Crannogmen!!!! There is so little out there just specifically about them and they're cool and secretive little world inside awoiaf!!!!! THANK YOU DAVE!!!!
Sometimes with other bodies of work, I think “I wish that in addition to the abundant straightforward surface-level analyses, there were more really deep analyses of symbols, myths, and themes available, from perspectives within the fictional world itself as well as real-world analogues, connections, and inspirations,” but I never ever have to wish for that with ASOIAF because people like you exist!!!!!! Love your work! Liking and commenting and fangirling LML endlessly
Thanks for the years of great thought provoking content. Please look into the lake Titicaca reed villages. Literal villages built on giant reed mats that float and and can be moved. Nobody has ever covered this before....
Ya'll ever read the Ra Expedition by Thor Heyerdahl? All about his idea that ancient Egyptians could have built papyrus Reed boats and sailed to the new world based on his ideas of seeing similar boats on lake titicaca and in Chad. At the time they thought he was a nut but on his second attempt the boat made it. I mean ignoring the fact you could throw a fridge off the coast of West Africa and it'd probably hit Florida. Doesn't mean it's not impressive to get people over the ocean fast enough before the papyrus dissolves.
“Meera and Jojen: To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater. Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you. Jojen: I swear it by earth and water. Meera: I swear it by bronze and iron. Meera and Jojen: We swear it by ice and fire.”
Huh, that's super interesting. Edit: I had always glossed over their pledge, but it is deeper than previously perceived. There could be a tune that goes with it. It's oddly rhythmic.
Bro to be honest i enjoy your content more than I do George's own books he's a good storyteller and a solid world builder but I'm convinced he's never going to finish them so it takes some of the enjoyment out of them but everything you put out is to me extremely entertaining
Greywater Watch has echoes of Alfred the Great's hidden marsh stronghold at Athelney, in the Somerset Levels near Glastonbury. It was erected in 878 on the site of an Iron age fortification, and the base for his reconquest over the Vikings. I've no idea if it was an inspiration for George but there are parallels. It also puts me in mind of Liang Shan Po, the legendary hidden marsh fortress from the Chinese classic novel Water Margin. I think Howland Reed's swamp magic may be responsible for the Tower of Joy coming down with some kind of Crannog Gris Gris.
I agree on the last point, and as to the reference to Alfred the Great, that absolutely sounds like something George might be drawing from. I wish I had heard of that before I made the video
I don't know if I made this point clearly enough in the video but they really do seem like they're kind of hiding out in the swamp right? It makes sense if that started as a colony of escaped slaves who didn't want to be found
@@DavidLightbringer Isle of faces seems like in part a sanctuary built with water magic to protect from the slavery of the Others; Braavos is a watery sanctuary that nurtured former slaves of the Valyrian Freehold. The Neck and the Stepstones do seem thematically connected in the possible use of water magic for isolation and protection.
@@DavidLightbringer it's an echo of Braavos in a way and I think it makes total sense. If I were being held in a castle by Squishers, I'd try to get out of there too. And if you combine the green magic with the water capabilities, then I imagine water magic does happen. My brain almost has it connected to the Ironborn drowning ritual. I'm thinking of elemental magic: Earth, water, wind, fire. And the wall is almost certainly made with water magic. So many thoughts! I have a whole notebook of things you've made me think of while watching your videos. 😂 It helps me to be a better writer though, so thanks!
I’ve been following your work since the podcast some time in late 2016, but I’ve never been great about leaving comments on stuff. Although I am a huge fan of ASoIaF, your deconstruction of the symbolism and layers of mythological references has been incredibly influential on my worldbuilding methodology for my TTRPG games. Your recent work with the ironmen, Hodor, and the squishers with Gray Waste Tim have been some of the most inspiring. Thanks!
So one key thing we need to figure. Jeor's raven constantly screams corn. Where in the fuck in the north, hell westeros are they growing corn? Like how do they make a crawdad boil?
It could be that the slave uprising in Moat Cailin simply took advantage of the destruction caused by The Hammer Of The Waters: "let's escape in the confusion", rather than being led or caused by The Children. Then The Children took credit/were credited with it retrospectively: "Whoa, that has spectacularly lucky!", "Nah, we did that... ". Maybe The Children's Tower is just where Children were kept by the Squishers.
maybe if GRRM had world envil, his garden wouldnt grow out of control, the Mereen knot would've solved easier and TWOW might be done already. maybe he should use your code :D
Been waiting for this one and I will be relishing it Edit: a "floating castle" would only work if you had some serious anti-grav magic. Alaska has a ton of boggy land like this where it looks like solid moss, only to have a surprisingly deep, murky water under it. I can picture them building a motte and bailey** style wooden castle with wooden pallisades/fire hardened/nightsoil toxic defensive spikes. We have other examples of another wooden castle in the north so the technology is definitely there. I think it's probably a mix of both explanations. There is probably a pretty good sized wooden towerhouse or other form of modest fortifications. Combined that with people's love of tall tales and embellishing things they really have no clue about. Tales that the Crannogmen are probably more than happy to have out there. **I looked them up and the term "motte and bailey" castle is not always 100% wooden. According to wiki they could be wood OR stone or a mix of the two, on a raised area of ground!
Haven't finished the Video yet, but I just found that in Germanic folklore, beings that live in swamps are called Nekkers. I think that was also a swamp creature from The Witcher games?
@@animeemm Thanks. Til today I didn't know there was a series! I've read a bit of fantasy from the 80s and had come to associate it with some of the less appealing genre tropes. These books might leave me with a better mental picture of what this decade was really about in terms of fantasy writing. I really enjoyed the animation adaptation so the thing it's based on has to be something I would appreciate. (Sorry to edit so much)
@@ThommyofThenn another classic prolific fantasy writer of course other than George RR Martin is Terry Pratchett who’s been writing since like the 80s and has amazing world building over like 30 novels, all set in the same Diskworld
Wow, World Anvil! Solid sponsor Dave! And it is cool to hear about it in a literary context rather than the d&d context ive heard about before. Cant wait to hear what Rhaegar thinks about it.
31:50 i actually like the ages explanation a lot. Back in the ancient times when everything was elves and giants and deep ones, it was the age of earth and water. Bronze and iron being the invasion of the andals and the wars that followed. Ice and fire being this new age of broken seasons and dragon lords.
At 25:17 with the idea of the Marsh King leading the thrall revolt: if we know that Fire/Water/Ice are the active elements of this world, then it’s nice parallels to have Fire be the Doom of Valyria (or if you prefer, the GEOTD fighting the Bloodstone Emperor; both might work), Water being the Squisher Thrall revolt; and Ice now being the freeing of the Others And because it bears mentioning - another awesome video! This series has been a treat!
Been using lots of Crannogmen units in my campaign in GOT mod for Medieval 2 Total War, excellent javelin unit that can quickly devastate most other units, of course only recruitable in Moat Cailin. Always great to get more backgroungd on regions/units/families.
Was just thinking yesterday „i really dont know anything about the Reeds and the Crannogmen Then u post this wonderful video Finally got time to watch it now 💯
Aye, thank you very much for keeping the becons lit : ) I wonder if George's facisnation with preserving things(like how ice preserved, say, Ötzi, the glacier mummy) extends to bogs and their ability to preserve artifacts and dead people like, say, the Tollund Man
I just found your channel today and I'm loving all the videos. I love this videe, as the people of the Neck are one of my favorite groups of people in the world of Ice and Fire. My only complaint are the detailed ads for World Anvil, but that's only because I'm very much not a fan. I tried it and it turned out to not be as accessible as it claimed to be. Still loving your videos though! I just got done watching the one on Southros, before clicking on this one!
I love the inclusion of Howl’s moving castle (my favorite book of all time), however, in the book his castle doesn’t actually fly. The movie made that up (along with most of the movie plot). I went and checked my copy just to make sure. It moves, but the exact method isn’t explained. Though now that I think of it, in the second book “Castle in the Air” it might actually be floating in the sky. But I don’t have that one on hand to check and it’s been awhile. Anyways, yay for the world anvil sponsor!!! Love that you’re getting more sponsorships lately, and love the return to scripted videos (my ADHD has a hard time with livestreams, but that’s a me problem)
@@DavidLightbringer I’ll add my vote for that as well! I personally think the first one is the best, but they’re all very fun and full of interesting takes on magic and fairytale tropes and generally just a fun read. Diana Wynn Jones studied writing from Tolkien’s lectures, so it’s very similar in tone to the hobbit. Speaking of Tolkien, here’s another name tie in for you with Arthur Dayne - one of the fallen kingdoms of the north (and the specific one Aragorn is descended from) is called Arthedain, which is basically Arthur Dayne without the R. I have to think Martin did that on purpose. Thanks for the reply!
Hey there, Dave, really enjoying all of your videos. I've been going through listening to all of your playlists and I'm finally getting around to liking and commenting on everything. Really appreciate your thoughts and input wrt lore! I can't get enough. Sorry you're about to see this same comment over and over. LOL.
in the books Ned has all the hold fasts strengthened perhaps he knew what was coming and new the importance of the cranngormen and gave howlen reed orders to wait till his men are kneaded the most to protect the North ?
David!!!!!! I’ve been watching your new stuff along side your Ashai playlist. I freaking love it. Could get get a super cut of your readings all with the creepy background music? ASMR DLB for the win.
But those were a bit tiny, just a bit for a hut and so. What I'm thinking is that there a few spots in the Neck where it's possible to have a large structure. Greywater Watch would be assembled on it and then floating islands and gardens would be around it. Every now and then, they'd reassemble the "castle" on one of the other locations, with everyone moving with it.
This story absolutely breaks my heart. I just finished the iron born playlist with this video, and I have completely changed my opinion on them. They feel like victims who never quite moved past what happened to their culture. I also have so much sympathy for the poor Grey king who had to marry a fish person. I cant imagine the conversation he had with his people. "Listen, if we have enough kids with them, they might start looking normal again." No wonder he had 100 sons!
2:49 This green foggy village reminds me oа the Fortress - a swamp castle in Heroes of Might & Magic. It looks so mysterious and picturesque! Not so great to live there though. I have always wondered how crannogmen could stay healthy in that wet environment full of mold, fungi, dangerous insects and swamp gases. Now that you explain their genetic connection to a sea race, that becomes clear.
You are totally right that squisher genes being the answer to the Crannogmen problem is finally a satisfying one!!! They have always been simply way too different and odd from so early in the on in the story that the green genes just never cut it for me!! Their secret was lurking just under the water…. 🐊 I’m currently a quarter of the way into book three of memory, sorrow and thorn and much has been happening in a swamp. Squishers have been very visible in the story so far, playing a direct role to my great enjoyment (including being summoned by song to swarm a ship… hello Aeron?!). In the swamp, there’s been a solid few similarities so far, including small statured inhabitants, crannogs, and magically large crocodiles, so I will update if I find any squishers in that bog!! 👀 there are these weird huge crabby human like creatures called ghants, but they do not seem very squishy. The local people also just seem like people, but they fear the ghants greatly and the rest of their countrymen hold similar biases as do Westerosi to our beloved swamp dwellers. Thanks for another great video!! 🐸
I'm reading Dune Messiah (2nd Dune book) and Paul has a vision of the moon falling - it's tied up with a vision of his loved one dying, but I don't think it's entirely a metaphor either. I love seeing places that George might have got the seed for ideas in ASOIAF. Totally made me think of this channel and "moon meteors"!
I wanted some specific knowledge for the cranogmen and your video was the first to pop-up..im so happy you are a cool dude with a cooler name.. Lightbringer.. wow!
Would highly recommend watching the Studio Ghibli movie for Howl's Moving Castle if you can't find time to read the book. Absolutely beautiful animation, a Starfall connection in Howl giving his heart to a falling star (H+A=M&J), Madame Suliman who has some major Melisandre vibes, and a major anti-war message in the background similar to what GRRM is doing.
Been working on an idea that the deep ones are water adapted singers. There’s a passage that mentions the singer being able to warg fish as well. There’s a long history of aquatic reptiles, if you believe the singers are reptilian. What if the aquatic singer/deep ones developed in the swamp first. Then through interaction with the first men adopted the thrall taking lifestyle… Been toking on my grass candle, don’t mind me 😂😂
i think the doom that came to sarnath is more connected to the white walkers, but in a more metaphorical way. the frogpeople are the whitewalkers, and the men of sarnath are the first men. and the white walkers returning are the frog people of ib returning to get their vengeance. the other symbology is there to guide you in the right direction without hitting it on the nose
So according to legend the natural state of the land of the neck is that its like any other area of westeros, or it WAS until the children broke it with their magic in the first war. Knowing that I think its fair to say Mira talking about how Howland could make land appear and disappear wasn't a lie, BUT what I think is this power is localized to the neck since its where this aspect of the children's magic was implemented. Moving castle YES ---> because castles sit on land, the childrens magic has power over the land, the crannogmen have this magic.
The mystery about the Neck to me is that is is the origin of TWO major rivers of the continent. Swamp and marsh are usually found in flat, low areas, while rivers originate in mountains, hills, or highlands. There are some exceptions, like the moors in Scotland. But this is not the environment that is described in the book, nor portraied in the show.
Hello fascinating additional facts. I was wondering why Neera mentioned Howland can make castles disappear and reappear. I thought about the Tower of Joy and maybe Howland just made it disappear.
My pet theory is that Greywater Watch isn't a place at all, but a watch like the Night's Watch. An order of the Neck's most capable rangers, protecting the ruling Lord and his advisors. They can make & break camp in hours and move the entire council to somewhere else entirely so there's no way to simply "capture the castle" and suddenly control the entire Neck. The idea that there's a literal floating castle somewhere in the bogs - one that no outsider has ever seen (really? not even allies?) - is just a red herring the crannogmen put about to lure invaders on a fools' errand.
I'm assuming that they at least move the lord's residence often. Kinda like how the Mongols dismantle their yurts and move with the available grass for their herd.
DL you deserve a Maester's chain link for every video like this you put out!
That’s a great idea!
Agreed. We must talk him into finding or making the prop.
no room for a forge in my apartment
AND several Rods worth of Valyrian steel to represent the huge amount of study given to the dark, ancient history of the World That ASOIAF Happens To Take Place On.
Ooo and a starry mask of V-Steel would look really cool
SORRY BABE CAN’T TALK DAVE JUST DROPPED STRAIGHT FIRE
My partner knows I'm not available for phonecalls on Sunday evenings 👀
@rivermistfae yes!!! i live with mine and he knows not to disturb me from 6pm est on sundays until i tell him it’s okay hahaha
Priorities 🤷🏻♀️😆
hahahah
Me alone at age 30: I'm just gonna watch this whole thing right now
Definitely agree with your moving castle explanation. Another thing about swamps is that they are essentially giant tidal rivers, which migrate over land and constantly change depth. If you didn't live in the area and didn't have something like a flat-bottomed boat to traverse, you'd get endlessly lost trying to follow landmarks which are ever-changing.
That's really cool. Swamps often get described with words like "stagnant" so it's good to point out that they aren't really.
That was my thought as well. That the castle doesn’t move but the swamp moves around it.
@@thomasleonardis711 you know that meme of the kid asking "why not both?" is what I'm thinking of. What do you think of the idea of a moss/wood artificial island bound up, perhaps magically, by leathern thongs o' squisher hide?
I once took a world religion class where we compared Howles Moving Castle with world religions… my favorite class I’ve ever taken. I’ve also always thought the cranogmen must be inspired by HMC. Can’t wait to see how Calcifer comes into play as a very important character to the story. Who would have thought, fire demons in Ice & Fire?! Get outta town!
@ThommyofThenn Some are, some aren't. A healthy swamp will move like that, especially if the bog of the swamp is a natural spring. Others whether due to beavers or what have you will absolutely become stagnant, diseased, and smelly.
holy shit, the crannogmen uprising in the style of the northman would make one hell of a movie
Horrible movie
From the misty swamps they come, clad in shadow. You hear their cries of battle but cannot meet them. For the swamp takes all who try to follow.
Swamps are already spooky places, chuck in a bit of horror and the cracknock men come very dangerous
@@fuzzyhair321yes a cool scene indeed. Imagine shrieks off in the distance. Then silence. You know another one of your men was just pulled beneath the bog. The fog dude…. Imagine seeing torches of ur men in the distance through the fog. Then a shriek and silence and their touch extinguished as it was dropped into the muddy water, its carrier plucked from existence by an unknown crannogan.
Little known fact - Reed and Ned Stark had a blues band at one time. Called it Howland Wolf.
I wish I was half this witty!
Lmao 😆😆😆😆
Ohh that's good 😂😂
Ned Stark could play some killer licks.
This comment totally deserves a heart. So....... ❤
I'm still early in the video, but, if you've never heard of "Chinampas" floating gardens/farms, I encourage you to look them up. Floating structures like that are very real, and possible with basically stone/bronze age tech. Really amazing.
For perspective in Florida we have this giant I mean massive sinkhole called Paynes Prairie just outside of Gainesville. 160 years ago it was a full on lake. 14 years ago it was a full on plains with wild horses and water Buffalo, after some local fires gators moved into the area and within we years the whole area is going back swamp/lake with many of the structures put up after WWII submerged or impassable to get to with out a boat. In nearby Ocala national forests "ninja trails" are beat through swamps that you should only follow if you've got boots and proofing feet. That is too say you don't just stomp around and you follow the grass grains.
The Neck reminds me so much of the swamps here in the South, specifically south Mississippi and south Louisiana. Lots of weird things, people living on the water, mysteries and legends, and a whole culture and people in it.
Same here! Reminds me of the bayous I call home
I think I just figured it out, in howls moving castle, Howl will trades his heart for magic where he lets it live on in a fire demon that is a fallen star, Starfall, which is the Danes home, it all fits
I’ve been waiting for that WorldAnvil sponsorship to happen here for years. It’s a perfect partnership.
the fact that lizard-lions are not crocs or alligators could be related to the neck not always being swampy, the lizard lions are probably recently descended from more terrestrial ancestors, like the real life kaprosuchus or araripesuchus, and they haven't had the time to evolve back into the more standard crocodile form.
oh okay that kinda makes sense
I was hoping to see someone bring this up, I couldnt remember the names and didnt want to look them up lol
Digging the longer hair, dude. Looking even more like a purveyor of forbidden knowledge and artifacts.
You are completely changing my views and feelings about the Iron Born and the Crannogmen with these videos and giving me so much more appreciation for the entire series. Thank you for all the hard work!!!
GRRM = world building King
HBO's casting of the Iron Born in GOT was abysmal. Every single casting decision was phoned in and generic. The only worse casting was the 2nd iteration of The Mountain, which had ZERO connection or similarities to the 1st and 3rd castings.
I cannot even tell you how excited I am to FINALLY have a video about the Crannogmen!!!! There is so little out there just specifically about them and they're cool and secretive little world inside awoiaf!!!!! THANK YOU DAVE!!!!
Sometimes with other bodies of work, I think “I wish that in addition to the abundant straightforward surface-level analyses, there were more really deep analyses of symbols, myths, and themes available, from perspectives within the fictional world itself as well as real-world analogues, connections, and inspirations,” but I never ever have to wish for that with ASOIAF because people like you exist!!!!!! Love your work! Liking and commenting and fangirling LML endlessly
Howland Reed - ordained minister and certified rower offering quickie Vegas style weddings on the Isle of Faces
Nice! I know Livestreams keep a channel afloat, but it's the videos I love! Thanks for making the content.
Thanks for the years of great thought provoking content. Please look into the lake Titicaca reed villages. Literal villages built on giant reed mats that float and and can be moved. Nobody has ever covered this before....
i actually do know of those and it crossed my mind... you might be right that this is part of GRRM's inspiration
Ya'll ever read the Ra Expedition by Thor Heyerdahl? All about his idea that ancient Egyptians could have built papyrus Reed boats and sailed to the new world based on his ideas of seeing similar boats on lake titicaca and in Chad. At the time they thought he was a nut but on his second attempt the boat made it. I mean ignoring the fact you could throw a fridge off the coast of West Africa and it'd probably hit Florida. Doesn't mean it's not impressive to get people over the ocean fast enough before the papyrus dissolves.
“Meera and Jojen: To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater. Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you. Jojen: I swear it by earth and water. Meera: I swear it by bronze and iron. Meera and Jojen: We swear it by ice and fire.”
Huh, that's super interesting.
Edit: I had always glossed over their pledge, but it is deeper than previously perceived. There could be a tune that goes with it. It's oddly rhythmic.
Yeah, this is a 'two become one' vow.
Bro to be honest i enjoy your content more than I do George's own books he's a good storyteller and a solid world builder but I'm convinced he's never going to finish them so it takes some of the enjoyment out of them but everything you put out is to me extremely entertaining
Greywater Watch has echoes of Alfred the Great's hidden marsh stronghold at Athelney, in the Somerset Levels near Glastonbury. It was erected in 878 on the site of an Iron age fortification, and the base for his reconquest over the Vikings. I've no idea if it was an inspiration for George but there are parallels.
It also puts me in mind of Liang Shan Po, the legendary hidden marsh fortress from the Chinese classic novel Water Margin.
I think Howland Reed's swamp magic may be responsible for the Tower of Joy coming down with some kind of Crannog Gris Gris.
I agree on the last point, and as to the reference to Alfred the Great, that absolutely sounds like something George might be drawing from. I wish I had heard of that before I made the video
I don't know if I made this point clearly enough in the video but they really do seem like they're kind of hiding out in the swamp right? It makes sense if that started as a colony of escaped slaves who didn't want to be found
@@DavidLightbringer Isle of faces seems like in part a sanctuary built with water magic to protect from the slavery of the Others; Braavos is a watery sanctuary that nurtured former slaves of the Valyrian Freehold. The Neck and the Stepstones do seem thematically connected in the possible use of water magic for isolation and protection.
@@DavidLightbringer it's an echo of Braavos in a way and I think it makes total sense. If I were being held in a castle by Squishers, I'd try to get out of there too. And if you combine the green magic with the water capabilities, then I imagine water magic does happen. My brain almost has it connected to the Ironborn drowning ritual. I'm thinking of elemental magic: Earth, water, wind, fire. And the wall is almost certainly made with water magic. So many thoughts! I have a whole notebook of things you've made me think of while watching your videos. 😂 It helps me to be a better writer though, so thanks!
Man, the first thing I thought of was Krull. Thank you for the real deal history lesson!
I’ve been following your work since the podcast some time in late 2016, but I’ve never been great about leaving comments on stuff. Although I am a huge fan of ASoIaF, your deconstruction of the symbolism and layers of mythological references has been incredibly influential on my worldbuilding methodology for my TTRPG games. Your recent work with the ironmen, Hodor, and the squishers with Gray Waste Tim have been some of the most inspiring. Thanks!
I like to imagine Crannogmen with thick Cajun accents and that is the exclusive reason that people dislike them.
My mind thinks deep bayou. I lived in Pigeon Bayou for a while and that's definitely how I think of crannogmen.
So one key thing we need to figure. Jeor's raven constantly screams corn. Where in the fuck in the north, hell westeros are they growing corn? Like how do they make a crawdad boil?
@@TheInsatiableDrBoom well I'm imagining that corn grows okay in the Barrowlands, I imagine that's like Iowa. Or Nebraska.
There's definitely a Dr John/Louisiana Voodoo/Southern Comfort vibe going on.
The names gambit! Remember it!
Yes we need a Reed update. Couldn’t make it work without your help as we wait
Once again David brings the light even to the darkest and dampest of places!
"GIT OOUT OF MAH SWAHMP!" -At least one Crannogman (probably).
It could be that the slave uprising in Moat Cailin simply took advantage of the destruction caused by The Hammer Of The Waters: "let's escape in the confusion", rather than being led or caused by The Children. Then The Children took credit/were credited with it retrospectively: "Whoa, that has spectacularly lucky!", "Nah, we did that... ". Maybe The Children's Tower is just where Children were kept by the Squishers.
1:11 that's some legitimately frightening artwork. Reminds me of the book cover for "The Devil's Armor" which is part of a fantasy trilogy I think
maybe if GRRM had world envil, his garden wouldnt grow out of control, the Mereen knot would've solved easier and TWOW might be done already. maybe he should use your code :D
He has simply lost his passion for this story, thus he has no motivation to write himself out of the corner he got into
Is it crazy that Dave has all these nutty theories, or crazy that I listen to them all?
we're enabling each other
Been waiting for this one and I will be relishing it
Edit: a "floating castle" would only work if you had some serious anti-grav magic. Alaska has a ton of boggy land like this where it looks like solid moss, only to have a surprisingly deep, murky water under it. I can picture them building a motte and bailey** style wooden castle with wooden pallisades/fire hardened/nightsoil toxic defensive spikes. We have other examples of another wooden castle in the north so the technology is definitely there. I think it's probably a mix of both explanations. There is probably a pretty good sized wooden towerhouse or other form of modest fortifications. Combined that with people's love of tall tales and embellishing things they really have no clue about. Tales that the Crannogmen are probably more than happy to have out there.
**I looked them up and the term "motte and bailey" castle is not always 100% wooden. According to wiki they could be wood OR stone or a mix of the two, on a raised area of ground!
Haven't finished the Video yet, but I just found that in Germanic folklore, beings that live in swamps are called Nekkers. I think that was also a swamp creature from The Witcher games?
oh interesting haha
"Näcken" in Swedish!
Also the whole howls moving castle series has amazing world building and are amazing
I've only seen the version with Chris Bale doing the voice acting. Lovely mix of steam aesthetic with some charmingly unique designs in there also
@@ThommyofThenn the books have a lot more plot than the movie, I highly suggest reading them or getting an audiobook versions
@@animeemm Thanks. Til today I didn't know there was a series! I've read a bit of fantasy from the 80s and had come to associate it with some of the less appealing genre tropes. These books might leave me with a better mental picture of what this decade was really about in terms of fantasy writing. I really enjoyed the animation adaptation so the thing it's based on has to be something I would appreciate. (Sorry to edit so much)
@@ThommyofThenn another classic prolific fantasy writer of course other than George RR Martin is Terry Pratchett who’s been writing since like the 80s and has amazing world building over like 30 novels, all set in the same Diskworld
Wow, World Anvil! Solid sponsor Dave! And it is cool to hear about it in a literary context rather than the d&d context ive heard about before. Cant wait to hear what Rhaegar thinks about it.
he has thoughts hahahaha
That was the best World Anvil bit I've ever seen on YT & that's saying something because Ginny Di does some good work.
With Biter he finally convinced me.
it's too delightfully awful not to be true
Please explain.
@@Megatron4Life23 his theory about the Squishers.
Some really, really incredible stuff in this one man. Bravo.
31:50 i actually like the ages explanation a lot. Back in the ancient times when everything was elves and giants and deep ones, it was the age of earth and water. Bronze and iron being the invasion of the andals and the wars that followed. Ice and fire being this new age of broken seasons and dragon lords.
Love the video & your channel. Best wishes from Scotland, David.
At 25:17 with the idea of the Marsh King leading the thrall revolt: if we know that Fire/Water/Ice are the active elements of this world, then it’s nice parallels to have Fire be the Doom of Valyria (or if you prefer, the GEOTD fighting the Bloodstone Emperor; both might work), Water being the Squisher Thrall revolt; and Ice now being the freeing of the Others
And because it bears mentioning - another awesome video! This series has been a treat!
The connection to Gene Wolfe’s Short Sun worlds are really strong with the Crannogmen. Hard Vanished People vibes.
Oh if only ✨Magic Spoon ✨ would have sponsored the Jojen Paste video 😂
I was literally just digging through your channel yesterday trying to find a video about these guys. Praise Garth.
Been using lots of Crannogmen units in my campaign in GOT mod for Medieval 2 Total War, excellent javelin unit that can quickly devastate most other units, of course only recruitable in Moat Cailin. Always great to get more backgroungd on regions/units/families.
Also whatever you are doing with your hair it gets more luscious all the time and looks so good here
This is great!!!Love this topic!!!!
This video has earned my subscription. Top tier content.
Thx for continuing to make these great, full length, videos
I did it! I clicked on the video as soon as I saw it! Hope this shows the algorithm how much I love this channel.
Always good to get a video from David Lightbringer. Happy 2024, friend!! I cant wait to see what you have in store for us
This whole thing of Holland Reed being alive, knowing so much, and that no one thought of going there to ask is crazy!
Produced Contenttttttt!!!?!?! Love it every time.
Was just thinking yesterday „i really dont know anything about the Reeds and the Crannogmen
Then u post this wonderful video
Finally got time to watch it now 💯
That is the SMOOTHEST mid-video advertisement EVER.
Praise Garth! 💚 I’ve been looking forward to this since watching the hammer of the waters video!!
Ooo rahh a new video ❤
Please do a Howland video that would be incredible
Aye, thank you very much for keeping the becons lit : )
I wonder if George's facisnation with preserving things(like how ice preserved, say, Ötzi, the glacier mummy) extends to bogs and their ability to preserve artifacts and dead people like, say, the Tollund Man
I just found your channel today and I'm loving all the videos. I love this videe, as the people of the Neck are one of my favorite groups of people in the world of Ice and Fire.
My only complaint are the detailed ads for World Anvil, but that's only because I'm very much not a fan. I tried it and it turned out to not be as accessible as it claimed to be.
Still loving your videos though! I just got done watching the one on Southros, before clicking on this one!
i appreciate the feedback tho!
I love the inclusion of Howl’s moving castle (my favorite book of all time), however, in the book his castle doesn’t actually fly. The movie made that up (along with most of the movie plot). I went and checked my copy just to make sure. It moves, but the exact method isn’t explained.
Though now that I think of it, in the second book “Castle in the Air” it might actually be floating in the sky. But I don’t have that one on hand to check and it’s been awhile.
Anyways, yay for the world anvil sponsor!!! Love that you’re getting more sponsorships lately, and love the return to scripted videos (my ADHD has a hard time with livestreams, but that’s a me problem)
enough people have said that these books are worth reading that I'm probably going to do it and I'm sure I'll check the movie out as well
@@DavidLightbringer I’ll add my vote for that as well! I personally think the first one is the best, but they’re all very fun and full of interesting takes on magic and fairytale tropes and generally just a fun read. Diana Wynn Jones studied writing from Tolkien’s lectures, so it’s very similar in tone to the hobbit.
Speaking of Tolkien, here’s another name tie in for you with Arthur Dayne - one of the fallen kingdoms of the north (and the specific one Aragorn is descended from) is called Arthedain, which is basically Arthur Dayne without the R. I have to think Martin did that on purpose.
Thanks for the reply!
Probably the first video I liked because of the sponsor
You always provide us with food for thought. Thank you, David, for another great video.
Hey there, Dave, really enjoying all of your videos. I've been going through listening to all of your playlists and I'm finally getting around to liking and commenting on everything. Really appreciate your thoughts and input wrt lore! I can't get enough. Sorry you're about to see this same comment over and over. LOL.
Always a great video! That ending was awesome 👏
thank you!
in the books Ned has all the hold fasts strengthened perhaps he knew what was coming and new the importance of the cranngormen and gave howlen reed orders to wait till his men are kneaded the most to protect the North ?
been waiting to hear more about house Reed and their dragon steel sawed-off 🥳
Fantastic DLB, thank you so much
Love the pushing the Ice Spiders video out of frame gag 😁
Love the World Anvil shout out, and the "if only GRRM had used this"
I read "Howl's Moving Castle" twice & have the movie on my shelf
David!!!!!! I’ve been watching your new stuff along side your Ashai playlist. I freaking love it.
Could get get a super cut of your readings all with the creepy background music? ASMR DLB for the win.
Lake titicaca is today, and has been for eons in the past, been home to actual floating islands used by natives . Not pickings but actually floating.
But those were a bit tiny, just a bit for a hut and so. What I'm thinking is that there a few spots in the Neck where it's possible to have a large structure. Greywater Watch would be assembled on it and then floating islands and gardens would be around it.
Every now and then, they'd reassemble the "castle" on one of the other locations, with everyone moving with it.
This story absolutely breaks my heart. I just finished the iron born playlist with this video, and I have completely changed my opinion on them. They feel like victims who never quite moved past what happened to their culture.
I also have so much sympathy for the poor Grey king who had to marry a fish person. I cant imagine the conversation he had with his people. "Listen, if we have enough kids with them, they might start looking normal again." No wonder he had 100 sons!
2:49 This green foggy village reminds me oа the Fortress - a swamp castle in Heroes of Might & Magic. It looks so mysterious and picturesque! Not so great to live there though. I have always wondered how crannogmen could stay healthy in that wet environment full of mold, fungi, dangerous insects and swamp gases. Now that you explain their genetic connection to a sea race, that becomes clear.
Tell me why I had a nightmare a Squisher attacked me last night -- oh wait, it's because I feel asleep to this. 😂
I miss nightmares 😂
You are totally right that squisher genes being the answer to the Crannogmen problem is finally a satisfying one!!! They have always been simply way too different and odd from so early in the on in the story that the green genes just never cut it for me!! Their secret was lurking just under the water…. 🐊
I’m currently a quarter of the way into book three of memory, sorrow and thorn and much has been happening in a swamp. Squishers have been very visible in the story so far, playing a direct role to my great enjoyment (including being summoned by song to swarm a ship… hello Aeron?!). In the swamp, there’s been a solid few similarities so far, including small statured inhabitants, crannogs, and magically large crocodiles, so I will update if I find any squishers in that bog!! 👀 there are these weird huge crabby human like creatures called ghants, but they do not seem very squishy. The local people also just seem like people, but they fear the ghants greatly and the rest of their countrymen hold similar biases as do Westerosi to our beloved swamp dwellers.
Thanks for another great video!! 🐸
ribbet
Always love vids on the Crannogmen, and would love one on Howland!
I think you are onto something here!! Squish Squish!
Ah, yes! I've been waiting for something like this. I suspected there was something murky 😏behind the crannogmen
Stumbled upon your channel just now. I guess it's time for some binge watching
Ahhh brilliant
"When you do the hanky-panky, you get the secret knowledge" is memeworthy
thank you, thank you. I'm too old to have a Tiktok but feel free to sample this shit
Uros islands on lake titicaca are inhabited floating islands created from the reed-like totora plant. Kinda like the floating castle.
I'm reading Dune Messiah (2nd Dune book) and Paul has a vision of the moon falling - it's tied up with a vision of his loved one dying, but I don't think it's entirely a metaphor either. I love seeing places that George might have got the seed for ideas in ASOIAF. Totally made me think of this channel and "moon meteors"!
I think Arrakis used to have three moons but one got got haha
Yay,I'm sooo glad right now!!
That was a real treat. Thank you!
I wanted some specific knowledge for the cranogmen and your video was the first to pop-up..im so happy you are a cool dude with a cooler name.. Lightbringer.. wow!
Your the best at this my guy, mad love
Would highly recommend watching the Studio Ghibli movie for Howl's Moving Castle if you can't find time to read the book. Absolutely beautiful animation, a Starfall connection in Howl giving his heart to a falling star (H+A=M&J), Madame Suliman who has some major Melisandre vibes, and a major anti-war message in the background similar to what GRRM is doing.
Thank you David. Awesome video.
the best way to drive into work in the morning… listening to DL!!! 11 hours countdown 🚙 😃
I can’t wait to watch this 10 times out of
Love your work David!
Been working on an idea that the deep ones are water adapted singers. There’s a passage that mentions the singer being able to warg fish as well. There’s a long history of aquatic reptiles, if you believe the singers are reptilian. What if the aquatic singer/deep ones developed in the swamp first. Then through interaction with the first men adopted the thrall taking lifestyle…
Been toking on my grass candle, don’t mind me 😂😂
What an awesome sponsor David!!! I'm 100% going to check that out
i think the doom that came to sarnath is more connected to the white walkers, but in a more metaphorical way.
the frogpeople are the whitewalkers, and the men of sarnath are the first men. and the white walkers returning are the frog people of ib returning to get their vengeance.
the other symbology is there to guide you in the right direction without hitting it on the nose
This might have been the most helpful brand deal I’ve ever seen. I’ve been typing everything for my story into a long ass google doc 😭
So according to legend the natural state of the land of the neck is that its like any other area of westeros, or it WAS until the children broke it with their magic in the first war. Knowing that I think its fair to say Mira talking about how Howland could make land appear and disappear wasn't a lie, BUT what I think is this power is localized to the neck since its where this aspect of the children's magic was implemented. Moving castle YES ---> because castles sit on land, the childrens magic has power over the land, the crannogmen have this magic.
The mystery about the Neck to me is that is is the origin of TWO major rivers of the continent. Swamp and marsh are usually found in flat, low areas, while rivers originate in mountains, hills, or highlands. There are some exceptions, like the moors in Scotland. But this is not the environment that is described in the book, nor portraied in the show.
Hello fascinating additional facts. I was wondering why Neera mentioned Howland can make castles disappear and reappear. I thought about the Tower of Joy and maybe Howland just made it disappear.