Daughter's born 29th August only 2 days are worse for sports, the county we live in allow her to be in the year below as she wasn't ready for school at all,, but it's a nightmare when council get involved for cut off dates and eligibility for secondary school etc.. they ought to give kids a choice when in the last 3 months of summer. Same for sports.
I found this fascinating. My son is 7 and born August so plays under 8s so soon to be under 9s. At this point he is at a league 1 pre academy (the youngest out 30 kids) and I doubt he will be signed up to the full academy later in the year for u9s. The frustrating things is I know if he was 11 months older he would not only be physically more developed but would have almost a year more of purposeful practice under his belt putting him in a much stronger position. I’ve always known that he was disadvantaged but it’s never really been mentioned anywhere. Really insightful to listen to Stephen’s experiences. Thanks for the great content lads 👍🏼
My son is in the same boat - August birthday, small also, feels like he is playing a year up already. A good player in his age group, on trial at an academy but won’t get in, would be a really good player if born two weeks later and in the age group below. Bio banding helps at clubs, but not all clubs do it and not until later if they do. Harsh, but at the end of the day I just want him to enjoy it and it’s never been about getting him in an academy, but you want a fairer process.
A winning culture is a sure fire way to deincentivise talent development, only at over 16 should winning even be a factor. Still think it should be u17,u19, u23...
Many years ago I was told a story by a scout for our local team that one of the biggest clubs in the country, who shall remain nameless, hired a statistician to help improve junior recruitment. The first thing the guy did was highlight that every top young player on their books was born in the same month give or take a week. The coaches immediately assumed that there was something magical about that period of the year and quickly began to filter out any child not born in the special period.. They persevered with this policy for quite sometime, with no improvement to their performance, before the same bureaucrat who had started the policy realised that all of there youth teams were up to 12 months older than every other team they played.
If I were a poor club, struggling to get players in, I would actively recruit those born June-August. You practically get the pick of the crop and once they reach adulthood the under 23s are going to be strong and worth pulling from for the first team.
I have a 15yo playing up with 17s B squad. Very late born and smaller but technically he is on the top end of the group. Not playing A squad due to size and righty so and I am on with it, match time with B vs what he would get in A is 2000 minutes a season. He can develop more competing up than playing down which is not allowed. When trials for NCAA opportunities come up he might struggle through as all players are judged on birth year and early born at that age are still more attractive to a coach. Great episode.
Malcom Gladwell’s outliers has a chapter based on this. Countries who use the calendar year obviously gives an advantage to Jan-March. America is talking about going back to school based calendar.
Great content. Absolutely agree that the relative age effect is real. My son is end of July and really small (25/30 percentile in height) currently signed to a Cat 1 club. The size and age difference is massive for my son but hopefully his ability can be seen and appreciated even though he's at a disadvantage. Fortunately he is developing really well and the club are very supportive. He's currently u9 and regularly playing u10s so hopefully clubs are improving in this area. It's an age old saying if you're good enough you're old enough. Real good talent can still be spotted regardless of age and size.
Basically what you can take away from this is unless your kid starts playing football at 4/5, goes to pre academy training and gets in at the early ages it's almost impossible to beat the already insurmountable odds of becoming a pro player. What also helps is having extremely pro active parents getting you trials/ opportunities/ knowing somebody... It's not likely you'll be scouted by luck but does happen on the odd occasion. Oh and be tall, fast, strong and not born in june/july/august.... What a fantastic way of getting the best out of our countries young kids... No wonder Spain can always have 75% possession against us if we focus on the wrong things and don't correct them.
Born in august myself I felt I needed an extra year of development for example this year I’m 18 now 19 in august if I was born in September just a few weeks later I would be eligible for an u19 team which is where I feel I should be right now. But it is what it is got to work with it
Very good podcast I’m thinking to play my son down he’s a August born a good player but struggling I guess a year makes a difference. FA needs to change this rule ASAP.
It's an issue in basketball too, when I was a kid national / reguonal teams were selected on year of birth Jan to Dec , I never played at any national level not even close until GBu23 when I had caught up physically, went on to have a decent pro career but at 15 , the fact i was born in late October competing against kids in the school year above , physically they just had 10 more months development some of the players, it helped my overall game as I ended up being a skilled shooter "jack f all trades " rather than being pigeon holes into one position. There's also an element of genetic potential at play , no matter how many weights I lifted possibly due to the amount of cardio in basketball I would never ever weigh more than 222lb.. and it wasn't lack of effort .
When my son started playing football a coach asked me about his birthday, I told him, January 8th, his response has stuck with me. "Oh, that's a magical birthday."
Interestingly Messi was born late June but i guess his talent was too easy to notice lol Notable player born between June - August Messi Kane Son Busquets Van Djik De Rossi Ashley young Luca Toni Bale James Rodriguez Modric Chillini Lewadovski Thiago Silva Draxler Salah Aguero
It doesnt work like that. In most part of the world players are grouped by the year of birth. So Messi was not really that late. People from September through December normally get the worst of this.
Birth date is not the be all and end all. Messi was playing football at like 2/3 so was already unreal at a young age his dob would be irrelevant. They not gonna look at the best player on the pitch and go "Let him go he's born in August", but they might if he's one of the weaker players... Also, another thing, other countries have different school start/end dates so being born in August in Argentina is completely different to being born in August in the UK.
Are you aware that in most countries in the world the cut off is 1st January / 31st December and players are grouped according to the year of birth, right? There is still this effect but normally is people born from September through December that get the negative side of this effect.
How do you find the medium between bio banding and age bias? Is there one? A child born late in the year who grows early or a child born early in the year growing late.
Academies scout from grassroots where the age band is concurrent with the academic year so there will be a disproportionate number of kids from the first half of the year. Average age squads sounds to me like it dilutes the level of competition in an elite environment designed to produce the best players. The only way is to break competing age groups into quarters at grassroots level through to academies to totally eradicate the imbalance, that doesn't sound feasible.
It should be organised in 6 months bandings. Therefore, September 1st to February 29th for Band A. March 1st to August 31st for Band B. That would atleast mean everyone is within 6 months of each other in age.
This is my sons problem as well he's 9 he's in a development squad n they was confused what age to put him with as he was born August 29 , I thought it was only us having this problem , very frustrating, he playing under 11s Sunday league but he's only 9 ?
if he's young in the year and then playing two years up in sunday league that's insane as he's playing against kids nearly 3 years older on some occasions?!
@@user-ze5bg2kr7e may is fine because only a few months difference players born July and August are almost a year younger that is where the disadvantage is
All the lads I grew up with who became professionals (League 2, League 1, Championship and Scottish Premier) played 1 - 2 years above themselves. I respect the research that has gone into this but believe it is false. It all sounds like an excuse for me. The future of football rests in Iron man sports, look at 5km - 10km athletics, these are the future footballers.
Daughter's born 29th August only 2 days are worse for sports, the county we live in allow her to be in the year below as she wasn't ready for school at all,, but it's a nightmare when council get involved for cut off dates and eligibility for secondary school etc.. they ought to give kids a choice when in the last 3 months of summer. Same for sports.
I found this fascinating. My son is 7 and born August so plays under 8s so soon to be under 9s. At this point he is at a league 1 pre academy (the youngest out 30 kids) and I doubt he will be signed up to the full academy later in the year for u9s. The frustrating things is I know if he was 11 months older he would not only be physically more developed but would have almost a year more of purposeful practice under his belt putting him in a much stronger position. I’ve always known that he was disadvantaged but it’s never really been mentioned anywhere. Really insightful to listen to Stephen’s experiences. Thanks for the great content lads 👍🏼
My son is in the same boat - August birthday, small also, feels like he is playing a year up already. A good player in his age group, on trial at an academy but won’t get in, would be a really good player if born two weeks later and in the age group below. Bio banding helps at clubs, but not all clubs do it and not until later if they do. Harsh, but at the end of the day I just want him to enjoy it and it’s never been about getting him in an academy, but you want a fairer process.
But Messi was born in June and that wasnt a problem for him
A very insightful interview :-) Greetings from Germany.
A winning culture is a sure fire way to deincentivise talent development, only at over 16 should winning even be a factor. Still think it should be u17,u19, u23...
Many years ago I was told a story by a scout for our local team that one of the biggest clubs in the country, who shall remain nameless, hired a statistician to help improve junior recruitment. The first thing the guy did was highlight that every top young player on their books was born in the same month give or take a week. The coaches immediately assumed that there was something magical about that period of the year and quickly began to filter out any child not born in the special period.. They persevered with this policy for quite sometime, with no improvement to their performance, before the same bureaucrat who had started the policy realised that all of there youth teams were up to 12 months older than every other team they played.
If I were a poor club, struggling to get players in, I would actively recruit those born June-August. You practically get the pick of the crop and once they reach adulthood the under 23s are going to be strong and worth pulling from for the first team.
I have a 15yo playing up with 17s B squad. Very late born and smaller but technically he is on the top end of the group. Not playing A squad due to size and righty so and I am on with it, match time with B vs what he would get in A is 2000 minutes a season. He can develop more competing up than playing down which is not allowed. When trials for NCAA opportunities come up he might struggle through as all players are judged on birth year and early born at that age are still more attractive to a coach. Great episode.
Malcom Gladwell’s outliers has a chapter based on this. Countries who use the calendar year obviously gives an advantage to Jan-March. America is talking about going back to school based calendar.
Great content. Absolutely agree that the relative age effect is real. My son is end of July and really small (25/30 percentile in height) currently signed to a Cat 1 club. The size and age difference is massive for my son but hopefully his ability can be seen and appreciated even though he's at a disadvantage. Fortunately he is developing really well and the club are very supportive. He's currently u9 and regularly playing u10s so hopefully clubs are improving in this area. It's an age old saying if you're good enough you're old enough. Real good talent can still be spotted regardless of age and size.
What club is your son at if you don’t mind me asking?
This chap is a cross between Bill Nighy and Arsene Wenger.
Basically what you can take away from this is unless your kid starts playing football at 4/5, goes to pre academy training and gets in at the early ages it's almost impossible to beat the already insurmountable odds of becoming a pro player. What also helps is having extremely pro active parents getting you trials/ opportunities/ knowing somebody... It's not likely you'll be scouted by luck but does happen on the odd occasion. Oh and be tall, fast, strong and not born in june/july/august.... What a fantastic way of getting the best out of our countries young kids... No wonder Spain can always have 75% possession against us if we focus on the wrong things and don't correct them.
Born in august myself I felt I needed an extra year of development for example this year I’m 18 now 19 in august if I was born in September just a few weeks later I would be eligible for an u19 team which is where I feel I should be right now. But it is what it is got to work with it
Very good podcast I’m thinking to play my son down he’s a August born a good player but struggling I guess a year makes a difference. FA needs to change this rule ASAP.
It's an issue in basketball too, when I was a kid national / reguonal teams were selected on year of birth Jan to Dec , I never played at any national level not even close until GBu23 when I had caught up physically, went on to have a decent pro career but at 15 , the fact i was born in late October competing against kids in the school year above , physically they just had 10 more months development some of the players, it helped my overall game as I ended up being a skilled shooter "jack f all trades " rather than being pigeon holes into one position. There's also an element of genetic potential at play , no matter how many weights I lifted possibly due to the amount of cardio in basketball I would never ever weigh more than 222lb.. and it wasn't lack of effort .
When my son started playing football a coach asked me about his birthday, I told him, January 8th, his response has stuck with me. "Oh, that's a magical birthday."
Interestingly Messi was born late June but i guess his talent was too easy to notice lol
Notable player born between June - August
Messi
Kane
Son
Busquets
Van Djik
De Rossi
Ashley young
Luca Toni
Bale
James Rodriguez
Modric
Chillini
Lewadovski
Thiago Silva
Draxler
Salah
Aguero
It doesnt work like that. In most part of the world players are grouped by the year of birth. So Messi was not really that late. People from September through December normally get the worst of this.
Birth date is not the be all and end all. Messi was playing football at like 2/3 so was already unreal at a young age his dob would be irrelevant. They not gonna look at the best player on the pitch and go "Let him go he's born in August", but they might if he's one of the weaker players... Also, another thing, other countries have different school start/end dates so being born in August in Argentina is completely different to being born in August in the UK.
@@willnestor6422 which is why I already said "I guess his talent was too easy to notice...."
@@danielefiori8439 Diego Maradona was born late October tho....?
Alexis McAllister
Dybala
Aimar
Higuian
Saviola
in November December.....
Are you aware that in most countries in the world the cut off is 1st January / 31st December and players are grouped according to the year of birth, right? There is still this effect but normally is people born from September through December that get the negative side of this effect.
How do you find the medium between bio banding and age bias? Is there one? A child born late in the year who grows early or a child born early in the year growing late.
Academies scout from grassroots where the age band is concurrent with the academic year so there will be a disproportionate number of kids from the first half of the year.
Average age squads sounds to me like it dilutes the level of competition in an elite environment designed to produce the best players.
The only way is to break competing age groups into quarters at grassroots level through to academies to totally eradicate the imbalance, that doesn't sound feasible.
It should be organised in 6 months bandings. Therefore, September 1st to February 29th for Band A. March 1st to August 31st for Band B.
That would atleast mean everyone is within 6 months of each other in age.
They started adding a/b groupings first half and second half of the year. I think that's better
This is my sons problem as well he's 9 he's in a development squad n they was confused what age to put him with as he was born August 29 , I thought it was only us having this problem , very frustrating, he playing under 11s Sunday league but he's only 9 ?
if he's young in the year and then playing two years up in sunday league that's insane as he's playing against kids nearly 3 years older on some occasions?!
So what age months are late born players? May-august? Or July-august?
My experience is that anyone born June-August is at a massive disadvantage vs players both from September-October
What about May 27th
@@user-ze5bg2kr7e may is fine because only a few months difference players born July and August are almost a year younger that is where the disadvantage is
Then you have other kids playing up 2 years like Reece James anyway
All the lads I grew up with who became professionals (League 2, League 1, Championship and Scottish Premier) played 1 - 2 years above themselves. I respect the research that has gone into this but believe it is false. It all sounds like an excuse for me. The future of football rests in Iron man sports, look at 5km - 10km athletics, these are the future footballers.
What i did. Sign him to fútbol sala un Addicion it works Wonder