KISS-BACK SHOTS … Everything You Need to Know
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Dr. Dave demonstrates everything you need to know about kiss-back shots, where the CB double-kisses off an OB that is frozen to or close to a cushion. He covers useful techniques, an aiming system, and game-situation examples where you can use kiss-back shots to your advantage. He also covers rules associated with kiss-back shots so you can use them without risking fouls.
Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:19 - Basic Safeties
1:46 - Carom Shots
---- 2:29 - aiming system
---- 4:05 - fancy follow caroms
5:56 - Sidespin Shots
7:20 - Fouls
---- 9:38 - angled hits and stalemate example
11:20 - Wrap Up and shot montage
CORRECTIONS:
- at 1m58s, I said 9-ball, but I meant 8-ball.
Supporting Resources:
- kiss-back shot resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- “DOUBLE-KISS SHOTS ... Real Game Winners” video: • DOUBLE-KISS SHOTS ... ...
- “Top 10 End-Game Last-Ball Shot Options” video: • Top 10 End-Game Last-B...
- “HSV B.39 - kiss-back shot and secondary cushion contact” video: • HSV B.39 - kiss-back s...
- “NV B.13 - End-of-game kiss-back safety option” video: • NV B.13 - End-of-game ...
- contact point mirror kicking system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/b...
- equal distance kicking system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/b...
- pool rules resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/resou...
- pool fouls resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/f...
- pool league rule differences: billiards.colostate.edu/resou...
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Good Luck With Your Game!!! - Спорт
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:19 - Basic Safeties
1:46 - Carom Shots
---- 2:29 - aiming system
---- 4:05 - fancy follow caroms
5:56 - Sidespin Shots
7:20 - Fouls
---- 9:38 - angled hits and stalemate example
11:20 - Wrap Up and shot montage
*CORRECTIONS:*
- at 1m58s, I said 9-ball, but I meant 8-ball.
*Supporting Resources:*
- kiss-back shot resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/kiss-back/
- “DOUBLE-KISS SHOTS ... Real Game Winners” video: ua-cam.com/video/c8ztEYGdga0/v-deo.html
- “Top 10 End-Game Last-Ball Shot Options” video: ua-cam.com/video/HXX-0HfiJKE/v-deo.html
- “HSV B.39 - kiss-back shot and secondary cushion contact” video: ua-cam.com/video/dFppNhJLQNM/v-deo.html
- “NV B.13 - End-of-game kiss-back safety option” video: ua-cam.com/video/q6nwXmkd5Mo/v-deo.html
- contact point mirror kicking system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/contact-point-mirror/
- equal distance kicking system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
- pool rules resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/
- pool fouls resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/
- pool league rule differences: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/rule-differences
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's UA-cam Channel:*
ua-cam.com/users/DrDaveBilliards
I absolutely love your focus on the physics of the game, what's actually transferring between ball and ball and rail etc. Top notch, exactly what im after
I'm glad to hear it. Thanks for the comment.
Very interesting. This brings up things I never even imagined before.
That was the purpose for the video ... to show what is possible (and useful).
Always a fan, thank you for always helping improving my game and everyone’s else’s. Much appreciated!
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Fantastic stuff-and very useful for offensive or defensive situations!
Thanks. Agreed.
Excellent video, now if I can only remember to do it in a game situation! Thanks a lot DOC!!
The more you watch videos like this, and the more you practice the shots in videos like this, the more likely you are to see (and take advantage of) the opportunities in games.
I think it's important to note, that the ball not returning to the cushion is only a foul if the object ball was called "frozen to the cushion" prior to the shot by the ref or opponent.
Good point.
Duh
He actually said that.
Thank you, Dr. Efren!
Well, I got lucky. :)
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Thanks! That three times law will make practice easier!
I hope it helps.
While returning to the same rail on your new cloth isn’t possible, it is possible (and not even hard) on older cloth. Because the nose cushion is higher than the vertical center of the ball (often 62% the height of a ball), a rebounding ball has a downward vector into the cloth. Over time this compresses the cloth, leaving a channel or gully parallel to the rail (appearing as a grayish line). If you see that line, you can hit the frozen ball dead on VERY softly, so that it rebounds about 1/16” off the rail, and then the ball will fall back down into the gulley and return to the rail. Can even be done at an angle (a little harder). This is legal if playing under WPA rules. If you do this, to avoid controversy it would be wise to explain to your opponent your plan, and have him stand over the shot.
Good point. An example of this is demonstrated here:
ua-cam.com/video/ucYnbbt6q_I/v-deo.html
Thanks Doc.
You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Hi Dr Dave, my apologies that my questions/suggestions aren't related to this specific video..
Recently Taom introduced the V10 chalk and everyone is on the bandwagon (my instructor is sponsored by Taom and said this is the best chalk in existence). Would love to see another of your chalk test videos with V10 vs Pyro vs Kamui Roku ;)
Second one, I've had my table for around 3 months now and only got a rest last week, this is because I'm right handed and I've been attempting to become ambidextrous like Ronnie O' Sullivan and Judd Trump, would love to see you do a video sometime on tips for attempting to play with the 'wrong' hand.
As always, thank you so much for all the content you keep creating (y)
1. I will try to do another chalk test video soon with V10 and Kamui Roku. That has been on my "list" for a very long time.
2. I'm not a good person to do such a video because I have never done this myself. I believe in spending all my practice time making my dominant-hand shooting as good as possible. I am happy using a butt extension or bridge when necessary. Because I am tall (6'3"), I rarely need either.
Thank you again
You’re welcome again.
10:38 why not playing an intentional foul on the 5-Ball to move it slightly?
Good idea. That could work, or not.
I've always loved billiards, specifically 9-ball, but in my life, I never had the space for a real billiards table nor did I ever have the luxury of time to go to pool bars to play it. I've always played 9-ball on my computer. Virtual Pool 4 is my favorite billiards pc game. I've been watching and following Dr. Daves lessons and surprisingly, they also work in Virtual Pool 4!
The pool simulators are not perfect, but they have gotten a lot better over the years. But the real fun and challenge of pool is IRL.
At 1:59 you would have just given your opponent ball in hand if you were playing 9-ball like you stated... and someone left an 11 ball out there too... lol. Still love the content!!
Oops. Thank you for letting me know. I just added a CORRECTION to the video description and pinned comment.
Great video as always Dr. Dave! Sorry a bit off-topic here, how did you highlight your videos in the description with the UA-cam sign next to it, I wanna do that in my videos as well :)
Thanks. The UA-cam icons are automatic. You just need to include the UA-cam video URL.
"Here is some examples." Grammar, Dr. Dave!
Oopsies.
With that stalemate example at 10:50, wouldn't it be possible to jump onto the 8 and get the cue ball back into play off the cushion?
... as a "trick shot" but not as a trustworthy shot in a match.
❤
9:35 in some tournaments if this is a foul, THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING WPA RULES! Just as you said Dr.Dave, World Pool Association jsut requires you to when cue ball and object ball made contact after that any of the two should hit the rail the for a legal shot the same rail or different rail as long as any of the two will come in contact with a rail.
See the "CORRECTION" in the video description or pinned comment.
Oh ya... 3rd! :)
You have just earned an imaginary orange slice and mini blue ribbon. :)
3:43, what do you mean by a "straighter hit" of the 8 when left spin is applied to CB? Thanks for clarification in advance!
By "straighter," I mean "more square," hitting the 8 more full in the face.
@@DrDaveBilliards but how does left spin help with a fuller hit?
The left spin throws the OB toward the pocket. The full hit helps create the fullness of the 2nd kiss, where the left spin helps throw the OB even more.
I'm having trouble feeling discouraged. I just got my first break and run in 8ball, but it seems like I'm losing ground since then
The next break and run (which will happen) will give you a boost again. If you want some ideas for continuing to improve, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/improving/
My first break and run gave me the love for the game. If you keep working to improve you will do it again and again. Keep at it!
the bar i go to doesn't allow double kiss shots not even the eight ball. play bar rules at the bar, leave the ball were it lies, even if one doesn't hit the ball. and have to call a bank shot or other things like that and calling the 3 bar. if one scratches, its behind the kitchen for the cueball...
yes i know what APA rules are. don't hit an object ball. cue ball in hand. i get that. at my local bar, they don't allow the double kissing or whatnot.
👍
I've never heard that pulled in "bar rules" before, but that's one of the problems with "bar rules." People make up all kinds of stuff. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/bar-rules
If you'd like to encourage them to change the rules, start playing BS softies when in a tough spot (that are allowed under those rules, hey no BIH), and if your opponent is on the 8, and the 8 is in the kitchen, and it's your shot, run out until you have a tough shot, and then just dump the cue ball straight into a pocket. They will soon realize why the rules of 8 ball are the way they are.
@@neuvocastezero1838 No they won't, because they are drunken fools.
thanks to all who replied, even you @DrDaveBilliards its down in tiverton RI, i go there every thursday with my mom, i let them play how they play it, also, sometimes, they will play last pocket as well, i don't know if you know about that rule.
At 10:35, where you suggested agreeing to a stalemate, what if the 3-foul rule applied?
Then Dr Dave would lose the rack by taking the 1st foul by refusing to shoot, so he'd get to 3 fouls sooner.
This is an 8-ball example. There is no 3-foul rule in 8-ball.
I have never heard of a stalemate game.....If I made a shot that my opponent could not possibly win after.......why would i agree to a stalemate? I've been playing a long time and the scenario where the 8 is hidden directly behind the opponents object ball.....aka.....no possible way to win.....why would i stalemate? I'm missing something.....this blew my mind.
It is rare, but if neither player is willing to attempt to develop the balls, it is an option.
8:30 is this still a foul? After the initial cue ball contact 8 hits the rail satisfying the "any ball hits the rail" requirement.
With the object ball stick to the rail I agree it does not count as a contact after the object ball strike.
No, it isn’t, I was thinking the same thing while watching the video
Same thing with the shot he’s taking about at 9:40, the 8 is already off the rail and driven to it so the shot is legal even if the cue ball doesn’t hit a rail or the 8 gets driven to it again.
As others have pointed out, there is a gap between the 8 and cushion. The CB hits the 8, and then the 8 hits the cushion, so there is no foul.
7:50 why would you want double kiss in a straight shot when object ball is not frozen to the rail?
A kiss-back shot would be played in a situation like this as a safety, if there is no high-percentage offensive shot available. Other safety options are also available per the demos in my "Top 10 End-Game Last-Ball Shot Options" video:
ua-cam.com/video/HXX-0HfiJKE/v-deo.html
Why would you want to make the object-ball return to the cushion again. Shot at 9:15 is totally legal! Or am I missing something?
Only a kissback-shot from a ball frozen to a cushion has a risk of being a foul; as long as there is the smallest of gaps it is legal.
This video makes me rethink this otherwise completely logical statement.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are totally correct. I just added the following "CORRECTION" to the video description and pinned comment:
- at 9m35s, I said the follow shot double-kissing the 8 back to the same rail is a foul in some league systems. This is incorrect. The shot is good since the CB hits the 8 and the 8 is driven to the cushion (before the double kiss occurs), so the shot is legal under any rules.
You are one tough cookie
Keith
Thanks.
@@DrDaveBilliards
Keep at it maybe you will be world champion one day.
@@DrDaveBilliards I am sure you don't have any desire for that.
You are correct. I don't have the desire. I also probably don't have what it takes per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/pro/
For one, I am too old to get started with all the hard work required.
@@DrDaveBilliards
I hear you buddy.
When you think about some of the things those pros go through to become a world champion.
WOW. NO THANKS.
Keith
hold on, why would that game be replayed? it's your shot and you have to hit the 8 or it's BIH or at least a foul
Yes. But if neither you or your opponent wants to disturb the balls, shot after shot, there is no reason to continue. There is no 3-foul rule in 8-ball.
Frozen ball double kissed to the same rail is still a foul. You need it to go to a different rail or any other ball to hit a rail.
… not under the WPA “official rules of pool.”
Indeed. I’m surprised, as I’ve always played under APA rules where it is required to go to another rail. Here’s the WPA: A
ball touching a rail at the start of a shot (said to be “frozen” to the rail) is not considered driven to that rail unless it leaves the rail and returns.
I have seen it in use exactly 0 times in the last 200 hours of pool I watched.
Good point. There are countless types of pool shots that rarely come up in play; but when they do, it helps if you are aware of them and have practiced them before.
10:24 this actually looks a bad shot because it looked like rail first before the cue ball hit the 5. Slowing down the video it is not a rail first. Cue Ball hit the 5 and quickly hit the rail.
This one is tough to call without better video playback.
Oh yeah......FIRST
Actually, 2nd. But nice try. :)
If the 5/8 situation happened I would 3 foul him out.
There is no 3-foul rule in 8-ball.
You are right it’s not a typical rule in 8 ball. Maybe it should be considering that situation.
Hey Dr.Dave! There is a URL I want you to watch! Kenyans playing BLACK BALL Pool in Kenya. Simon Lubulwa's last shot
was called a foul. FOR ME THERE IS NO FOUL! Could you judge the video. Type this on the Search Bar KENYA VS OPEN FINAL: Simon Lubulwa (Ug) vs Rashid Wagaba(Ug) - RACE TO 9
Simon should be the rightful winner as he masse the ball because the cue ball is so near the yellow ball
so he needs to masse to avoid the foul but the tournament director ruled it as a foul! HAAAAA CHEATING!
I made my comment there 1:54:37 is the start of the drama!
If the CB was frozen to the OB, the shot would not be a foul per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/frozen/
But if there was a small gap between the balls, the shot is obviously a double-hit foul per the info and videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/
@@DrDaveBilliards
It was a cheat. That was a legal shot!
Fatboy Approved
I'm glad to hear it.
@@DrDaveBilliards always appreciate your work. I dropped off AZB again for a while. Hope everyone is doing well. Enjoy the summer! Take care Fatboy😃💪
@@ericpetersen8155 So there is "life after AZB?" !!! :)
@@DrDaveBilliards lol, great question. I’m not gone forever, but it will be a while before I’m back. I took 7 years off last time. Came back for a couple years. I like AZB and the people there. It just gets repetitive-there’s a big vacuum after losing lots of the people who contributed to the conversation.
The circular arguments are just a bit much.
While I understand people new to pool can’t add as much, they don’t seem to try to. They would rather argue endlessly about topics they should be learning about.
AZB needs more people like yourself, who have solid information and are helpful.
@@ericpetersen8155 Thanks. I hope to see you back sooner rather than later.
A few too many flukes passed off as intended shots here.
Every shot in this video was executed as planned. Some of them were difficult and took multiple attempts, but I wouldn’t call any of them “flukes.”
Intended, maybe but a lot of shots here are trick shots and the odds would play against trying them.
@@trailprice Agreed. A few of the shots are "low percentage" and you would attempt them only in desperate situations or just for fun. Although, if you practice them, you have a much better chance to pull them off if they come up.