So, then Demise's curse doesn't exist in the Triforce timeline, because you never fight him in that timeline. And the Tree of Life is not an optional side quest as you mention in 4:21. It's part of the main story (to get one of the four parts of the Song of the Hero that you need to get the Triforce)
I think you're headed in the correct way. I been thinking about all this for a time, and we def need to get into more profound concepts like the one you explain here: time travel isn't always the same.
You dont understand how much I needed this video in my life. The skyward sword paradox has bother me since 2011, and now I will able to finally sleep at night, thank you
I'm in the camp that ancient TOTK, BOTW and TOTK take place in a split timeline from Skyward Sword. I really like this video as it strongly supports that idea but keeps consistency with events that occurred.
this makes complete sense to me, i never understood why people didnt consider the skyward sword split when demise is eradicated in both timelines. and i love how this enables the godess sword to exist in totk, even if the timelines have reconverged as i believe
The bit about being unable to time travel to before the timeline split seems... arbitrary. Same with the dismissal of evidence of a stable timeloop in the bracelet and master sword, those feel more like working backwards from a conclusion.
The not being able to travel to before the origin of a timeline I pulled from the fact they can no longer use the gate of time after the game. The master sword is actually evidence against a timeloop because it's not there from the beginning of the game like the bracelet. The only way to rationalize different results for different events during the same use of time travel is that the events in the past are what matters, not how the time travel took place.
I think the way time travel works depends on who makes the time travel, and that way you can explain why some stuff seems to be predestined and some are not, and why some events can break the timeline and other can't. Think this way. Link is predestined to do some stuff, and we do that stuff (the tree example, how he travels back in OoT to finish the Spirit Temple, all the events in MM), even the time windmill timeloop (because is not obligatory to teach the man in the windmill song of storms so it's up to the player if he wants to make that paradox), and while we see the things the way they were before and after we did it, that's not the case for the rest of the people. For us, Zelda was always in the sealed temple, Impa always had the bracelet because that events are not part of out destiny, we can't change them in any way and therefore, we always see them in their final destiny. But when another one changes someone's destiny then there's when we have a break. Zelda in OoT changes Link destiny and splits the timeline in two, and when Ghirahim takes Zelda to the past and revives Demise, he alters the destiny, not of Demise because he is still beaten, but Link, Zelda, the Master Sword and the Triforce destiny is changed as they will never travel to the land, the master sword will never be forged and the triforce will stay in the sky. TL;DR Time travel is relative to the one who travels and you are unable to change your own destiny, only others can change your destiny
I think it could have been better explained at the game , somethings are destined to happen . I never understood very well , cuz any presence of link on the past , should cause a change in the future, he is immune to the time stones apparently ( that the robots warns to be dangerous to humans) , he actively killing enemy's that are just bones in the future , erasing monsters of the past , bring back to life again an dead dragon and an extinct tree , killing demise and creating his own legend that will inspire himself on the future to start your journey to that very point .
I don't think you're correct about OoT's timeline split. This was actually caused by Zelda sending Link back to his child time. That's what TWW was all about. The sages were awoken and Ganondorf defeated but the hero was removed from that timeline which is what caused the Great Flood. As for the child timeline, Link simply warned the Royal Family which lead to Ganondorf's execution. As for SS, yes I completely agree with its timeline split and I think BotW+TotK take place after it.
I want to share another interpretation on why Link kills demise both in the present and in the past. Basically, when Link defeats Demise in the past, he only freed Zelda's soul and imprisoned Demise's consciousness in the master sword to decay, his hatred and power however remained as the imprisoned, still sealed away by Zelda (the one in the crystal), then in the present Link already used the triforce to eradicate Demise completely and utterly. I mean, if Link could use the master sword to kill Demise completely, why would it be necessary to use the triforce at all?
The only problem I see with this is that Fi says you eradicated demise with the mastersword. All you sealed inside the mastersword was his residual consciousness, which is the physical form of his curse.
@@gambagoons But that's the thing, you seal away his consciousness, not his power or hatred, the imprisoned is Demise's power and hatred without a mind, and since his consciousness survived the "eradication" then his power could have done so as well. I think this is just a example of the game not explaining itself very well, but I wonder what the Japanese text says about it
Actually, Skyward Sword’s ending is evidence of an Elder Scrolls dragonbreak. The life tree seed is required to learn Lanayru’s piece of the Song of the Hero which is required to enter the Sky Keep where the Triforce is hidden.
Okay... So... About the Life Tree... Uh, sorry to disappoint, but you're way off there. Not only do you NEED to plant the tree in the past in order to aquire the final part of the Ballad of the Goddess, but Zelda only encases herself in amber in a version of the past in which the Life Seed has already been planted.
Okay... So... About Zelda encasing herself in amber... Uh, sorry to disappoint, but you're way off there. Not only are these event not tied to each other in any way, but you can see zelda encased in amber before the life tree is ever prest. Lol, sorry for the petty response, just having fun. But you do make a good point about it being required. But whether it's required or not it doesn't make much of an impact on the theory itself. This is more about how there are conflicting rules to time travel in Zelda and how we can encapsulate them into a rigid theory that accounts for all instances of time travel.
@@gambagoons I was pointing out a contradiction with the game itself. You DO see Zelda in the Amber at the beginning, but the fact she does so after you've planted a tree despite there never being a tree there when you first get to the Sealed Temple is an in game contradiction. And because the game itself is contradictory and incorrect in its usage of time travel, your theory is also necessarily wrong. Believe me, I'd love to think there's a time split in Skyward Sword. It would be way better if there was one. But the in game evidence doesn't support it.
@joshua_swanson But the contradiction is what supports my theory, instead of viewing the act of time travel as what causes an outcome its the events that take place in the past that was traveled to. So, the fact that planting that tree was not some destined event and rather something link came up with to resolve an issue blocking his path is why it had a different effect on the timeline. I'm trying to say, there are contradictions but not if you look at it slightly differently, but looking at it this way implies a split.
@@mmaaauuuuiiiii My brain just works very differently than yours, because I don't understand that at all. TotK's time travel I get, because it makes sense. OoT's time travel I partially get because it only partially makes sense. Skyward Sword's? No. Maybe I've just been conditioned to think of time travel a specific way, but I also think that specific way is just the way it's supposed to be thought of. I'd love an in depth visual representation along with an auditory explanation on top of it. Maybe I'd actually understand it then.
So, then Demise's curse doesn't exist in the Triforce timeline, because you never fight him in that timeline. And the Tree of Life is not an optional side quest as you mention in 4:21. It's part of the main story (to get one of the four parts of the Song of the Hero that you need to get the Triforce)
I think you're headed in the correct way. I been thinking about all this for a time, and we def need to get into more profound concepts like the one you explain here: time travel isn't always the same.
You dont understand how much I needed this video in my life. The skyward sword paradox has bother me since 2011, and now I will able to finally sleep at night, thank you
7:47, skip to this if you don’t want TOTK spoilers after he gives the spoiler warning
This needs way more views. Love the vid.
Thx man 😁
I'm in the camp that ancient TOTK, BOTW and TOTK take place in a split timeline from Skyward Sword. I really like this video as it strongly supports that idea but keeps consistency with events that occurred.
really sick video dude
Thx man
this makes complete sense to me, i never understood why people didnt consider the skyward sword split when demise is eradicated in both timelines. and i love how this enables the godess sword to exist in totk, even if the timelines have reconverged as i believe
The bit about being unable to time travel to before the timeline split seems... arbitrary. Same with the dismissal of evidence of a stable timeloop in the bracelet and master sword, those feel more like working backwards from a conclusion.
The not being able to travel to before the origin of a timeline I pulled from the fact they can no longer use the gate of time after the game. The master sword is actually evidence against a timeloop because it's not there from the beginning of the game like the bracelet. The only way to rationalize different results for different events during the same use of time travel is that the events in the past are what matters, not how the time travel took place.
I think the way time travel works depends on who makes the time travel, and that way you can explain why some stuff seems to be predestined and some are not, and why some events can break the timeline and other can't.
Think this way. Link is predestined to do some stuff, and we do that stuff (the tree example, how he travels back in OoT to finish the Spirit Temple, all the events in MM), even the time windmill timeloop (because is not obligatory to teach the man in the windmill song of storms so it's up to the player if he wants to make that paradox), and while we see the things the way they were before and after we did it, that's not the case for the rest of the people. For us, Zelda was always in the sealed temple, Impa always had the bracelet because that events are not part of out destiny, we can't change them in any way and therefore, we always see them in their final destiny.
But when another one changes someone's destiny then there's when we have a break. Zelda in OoT changes Link destiny and splits the timeline in two, and when Ghirahim takes Zelda to the past and revives Demise, he alters the destiny, not of Demise because he is still beaten, but Link, Zelda, the Master Sword and the Triforce destiny is changed as they will never travel to the land, the master sword will never be forged and the triforce will stay in the sky.
TL;DR Time travel is relative to the one who travels and you are unable to change your own destiny, only others can change your destiny
I think it could have been better explained at the game , somethings are destined to happen .
I never understood very well , cuz any presence of link on the past , should cause a change in the future, he is immune to the time stones apparently ( that the robots warns to be dangerous to humans) , he actively killing enemy's that are just bones in the future , erasing monsters of the past , bring back to life again an dead dragon and an extinct tree , killing demise and creating his own legend that will inspire himself on the future to start your journey to that very point .
Now I know when botw and totk is!!
I don't think you're correct about OoT's timeline split. This was actually caused by Zelda sending Link back to his child time. That's what TWW was all about. The sages were awoken and Ganondorf defeated but the hero was removed from that timeline which is what caused the Great Flood. As for the child timeline, Link simply warned the Royal Family which lead to Ganondorf's execution.
As for SS, yes I completely agree with its timeline split and I think BotW+TotK take place after it.
I fully agree with what you're saying. I'm not sure what part of my OoT split is different from what you're saying.
I want to share another interpretation on why Link kills demise both in the present and in the past.
Basically, when Link defeats Demise in the past, he only freed Zelda's soul and imprisoned Demise's consciousness in the master sword to decay, his hatred and power however remained as the imprisoned, still sealed away by Zelda (the one in the crystal), then in the present Link already used the triforce to eradicate Demise completely and utterly. I mean, if Link could use the master sword to kill Demise completely, why would it be necessary to use the triforce at all?
The only problem I see with this is that Fi says you eradicated demise with the mastersword. All you sealed inside the mastersword was his residual consciousness, which is the physical form of his curse.
@@gambagoons But that's the thing, you seal away his consciousness, not his power or hatred, the imprisoned is Demise's power and hatred without a mind, and since his consciousness survived the "eradication" then his power could have done so as well. I think this is just a example of the game not explaining itself very well, but I wonder what the Japanese text says about it
Actually, Skyward Sword’s ending is evidence of an Elder Scrolls dragonbreak.
The life tree seed is required to learn Lanayru’s piece of the Song of the Hero which is required to enter the Sky Keep where the Triforce is hidden.
Okay... So... About the Life Tree... Uh, sorry to disappoint, but you're way off there. Not only do you NEED to plant the tree in the past in order to aquire the final part of the Ballad of the Goddess, but Zelda only encases herself in amber in a version of the past in which the Life Seed has already been planted.
Okay... So... About Zelda encasing herself in amber... Uh, sorry to disappoint, but you're way off there. Not only are these event not tied to each other in any way, but you can see zelda encased in amber before the life tree is ever prest. Lol, sorry for the petty response, just having fun. But you do make a good point about it being required. But whether it's required or not it doesn't make much of an impact on the theory itself. This is more about how there are conflicting rules to time travel in Zelda and how we can encapsulate them into a rigid theory that accounts for all instances of time travel.
@@gambagoons I was pointing out a contradiction with the game itself. You DO see Zelda in the Amber at the beginning, but the fact she does so after you've planted a tree despite there never being a tree there when you first get to the Sealed Temple is an in game contradiction. And because the game itself is contradictory and incorrect in its usage of time travel, your theory is also necessarily wrong.
Believe me, I'd love to think there's a time split in Skyward Sword. It would be way better if there was one. But the in game evidence doesn't support it.
@joshua_swanson But the contradiction is what supports my theory, instead of viewing the act of time travel as what causes an outcome its the events that take place in the past that was traveled to. So, the fact that planting that tree was not some destined event and rather something link came up with to resolve an issue blocking his path is why it had a different effect on the timeline. I'm trying to say, there are contradictions but not if you look at it slightly differently, but looking at it this way implies a split.
@@mmaaauuuuiiiii My brain just works very differently than yours, because I don't understand that at all. TotK's time travel I get, because it makes sense. OoT's time travel I partially get because it only partially makes sense. Skyward Sword's? No. Maybe I've just been conditioned to think of time travel a specific way, but I also think that specific way is just the way it's supposed to be thought of.
I'd love an in depth visual representation along with an auditory explanation on top of it. Maybe I'd actually understand it then.