I like how the MIB looks at Jacob when Ben is hurt and venting. It's such a moment of: 'look, you've ruined this man as much as anyone else did. This is the consequence of your actions.'
Yet that was the point. If Jacob told him then would he really be making a choice? Also at this point Jacob already had his replacements and pretty much was done with his job, in other words he wanted to die.
It's a pretty obvious God analogy and Jacob is supposed to be the Christ-like figure. Ben's anger at the god of the island (Jacob) for seemingly abandoning him in his greatest moment of desperation is pretty relatable for a lot of people
Lol really? Ben was an arrogant asshole - Jacob responding him "what about you?" perfectly places it, there is nothing special about anybody but only their actions speak for them. Ben thought that following orders and playing along in matter of "means to an end" would grant him "special" treating or place but the whole point of the "test" was to find a person which is good from the heart and is not doing anything for a "reward" but just only that it needs to be done - that's why Johns "grace" was passed to Jack.
@@verniks Jacob killed thousands upon thousands of people by bringing them to the island just because he wanted to a prove the Man In Black wrong. And it took him 2000 years for him eventually to be right. He's a horrible leader.
I can't think of any possible alternative reason for the line "What about you?" other than Jacob intentionally provoking Ben into murdering him. "Part of the plan." Saying that line to someone who is clearly emotional, feeling undervalued and ignored, how could that *possibly* go well?
In Jacob's flashback episode, his mother says he doesn't know how to lie. The point was to be honest about his feelings toward Ben and that Ben should make the right choice in face of the truth. Jacob says its meaningless if he has to influence anybodies decision to do whats right. Miles tells Ben that Jacob was hoping he was wrong about Ben, so obviously he didn't want Ben to kill him. Jacob also had Brahm and his men en route to the staue so that if Ben chose not to kill Jacob, they would secure the area and get things under control. So Jacob had plans for multiple contingencies but he definitely wasn't trying to provoke Ben, he was just being honest about how he has no sympathy for Ben because of how wicked a person he is.
It was all planned. Jacob wanted to die in order for someone else, like Jack, then Hurley, to take his place as protector. Living for over 2000 years, defending the island from his brother, he knew he wouldn't win alone, so he had to die in order for Desmond to remove the stone, then Jack to fight the smoke monster who had lost powers, and then Kate to kill him, and then Desmond to put the stone cork back.
@@ranker4I don't think he wanted to die. He went through the trouble of bring brahm and his men back to the island to enter the statue moments after Locke and Ben got there. He wanted them to secure the place if Ben decided not to kill him.
It's like his mother said, Jacob doesn't know how to lie. And he wanted to give Ben his choice, it's like the man in black said, he knew he was defeated. The point was to prove people would make the right choice without Jacob having to step in
@@user-hu9vi7nk1lNo it was his mission to find an exchange and like Jack discovered it inside while they talked to Jacob he waited what Ben would become without further infos. In fact Jacob was born into with a lack of knowledge and reasons for this situation so he had nothing more to say. The questioning with Sawyer Kate Jack and Hurley showed that he didnt know it himself how to decide. He waited til someone else took the decision and it might cld have been Ben when he had searched for it but after all he wanted to stay as a Dharma and corrupt others.
@@stillgotyourmom he had it all planned out from the beginning. Mib told Jack that he expected to be more surprised by who Jacob chose. He chose hurley.
It was just the weird outcome that messed up the show, it still have some great set up and amazing seasons all through it... it's just that magic light doesn't really cut it, that alienated me. Still great show, meh ending.
@@gwh3013 I don't think there's any point the premise doesn't work they just lost a sense for the execution. Even the magic light stuff, there was always this pseudo-science framing of everything that they needed to lean more into, and then the dichotomy with faith and purpose which was always relied more heavily on implication, with specifically the implication that to name it explicitly is a type of folly. Jacob saying by the end that "it doesn't mean anything if I just tell them what's right and wrong" was the real killer, the show lived and died by its subtleties.
@@stillgotyourmom no actually the meaning of the show - right up until the last season - is that you can't name the agencies of predestination explicitly. The more you believe yourself to be witnessing them at hand, and subsequently the more effort you make to identify them, to scientifically quantify them, the more unreliable they become. And if an agency of predestination becomes unreliable for you individually? It takes the form of your life falling apart. This is apparent in most of the major character arcs in the show, like Hurley's schizophrenic delusions becoming more mendacious and pushing him to suicide, John Locke losing his wife for all he stalks his father, Ben losing his control over the island for presuming to be any closer to the will of Jacob, and then needless to say Jack's whole estrangement from his abusive father who he desperately seeks reconciliation for and winds up transferring to half the cast of the show. The show betrays itself because on the very terms its set up you're not *meant* to know the nature of predestination, you're not *meant* to hear what your life was worth all along, you're not *meant* to have a first hand knowledge of the afterlife and you're not *meant* to win the respect and understanding of the abusive figures in your life who've been tormenting you when they themselves are only taking their frustration out for what they believed they themselves were *meant* to be witness to. You should watch the film "A Serious Man" by the Coen Brothers, does a much better job of telling the story Lost fumbled at the end.
Wouldn’t MIB rolling Jacob into the fire be against the rules, since he was still alive when he did it? The fire was more likely to kill him before the stab wounds did.
Jacob was a dick for not communicating. could have saved so many lives instead he was at the same level as MOB. Literally metaphor for God not stopping the Devil and his games. Both as equally guilty in innocent death love the protrayed in the series
I don’t understand. The only way someone could kill Jacob if he was stabbed before he could even utter a word. Here, jacob had a full conversation with Ben
Thats not true. Thats just something MiB told Richard to get him to kill Jacob before he could tell him what was really going on. Jacob could be killed at any time by anyone. The idea that certain people could only be killed if they didnt talk first was just a manipulation to get people to kill them quickly or be killed. As I said MiB told Richard to kill him before he spoke because he wanted Jacob dead and if Richard thought Jacob was the devil MiB wanted to maintain that illusion as that was the only way he could be sure to manipulate Richard into killing Jacob. Dogen said it to Sayid because he thought MiB would just kill him. MiB could not be killed because he was connected to the source, thats why Desmond needed to put the light out temporarily.
@@neoluddite5676 There were no rules who could kill a protector. Jack and Jacobs mother were killed by MiB, Richard could have killed Jacob if he hadnt defended himself, Jacob was killed by Ben who was no longer the leader of the others. And being the leader of the others comes with no abilities, its just a title for leading the group who "follow" Jacobs rules through Richard. MiB didnt make Ben kill Jacob because he had been a leader (Ben wasnt even technically allowed to go into the statue as he was no longer a leader and had not been invited), he manipulated him into killing Jacob because MiB scanned him and watched him growing up and realised Ben had a desire for power and all he wanted was to be considered special and when he realised he wasnt he would lash out. He knew Ben would be jealous and wouldnt understand why he wasnt worthy of meeting Jacob but John Locke was and he also knew how Ben basically sacrificed everything (including his daughter) in service of Jacob but Jacob would still see Ben as not worthy due to his motivations being corrupt. Therefore MiB was unable to kill Jacob because of Mother's rule so he needed someone to do it for him. He tried to use Richard's religious superstitions to manipulate him into killing him but failed. He obviously tried with multiple people over the years but they all ended up dead but eventually managed to get Ben to do it. It didnt matter to MiB who it was, he just needed someone who could be manipulated into doing it.
@@charles2521 there is a skit on youtube of an old comic con where mib name was reveal. Funny but unlikely , i do not think Barry was a common name during egyptian era
loved lost, great show. however simple things! if jacob simply said, thats not john, a whole lot of bother would have been resolved. He gets it in the 6th series first thing when its too late
he could have done a lot of things to prevent his death including simply fighting off ben. i think after living for 2000 years and being in an eternal conflict with his brother he was just tired and was ready to die.
Great acting from Michael Emerson, but the whole scene is stupid. Jacob is trying to stop this great evil from being unleashed into the world and he chooses to be flippant and non-caring to a person who's his brother's tool. God the writing really tanked after S4.
the dude was 2000 years old and his entire existence was an eternal conflict with his brother. i get the feeling he was just tired and was ready to die by this point.
@@GetYourPull18 yeah but he could have informed Ben that 'Lock' was actually someone else.. I mean , that wouldn't make it not a choice, just a choice with more information. it'd still be choice. Jacob has some great scenes but his plan is kinda stupid.
@@gwh3013 The information that Locke wasn't actually Locke doesn't have any impact on whether it'd be moral for Ben to kill Jacob, who was an unarmed, non-threatening person whose home they just invaded, over petty recognition. Ben was fully capable of recognizing this. Jacob telling Ben about Locke may get Ben to not kill Jacob, but not because Ben realized it's wrong, only because "smoke monster bad".
![LOST: Jacob explains "what they died for" [6x16-What They Died For]](/img/n.gif)
“What about me?!”
“What about you? I only guaranteed you a six episode arc, you’re lucky you got up to series regular!”
- Lost The Musical
I like how the MIB looks at Jacob when Ben is hurt and venting. It's such a moment of: 'look, you've ruined this man as much as anyone else did. This is the consequence of your actions.'
What a fantastic scene. It holds up really well.
Now this was TV!
Nothing will ever compare again in history!
Really? So I take it @Lostfann1983 was already taken.
It was good but to say nothing will ever compare to it again is such a fucking stretch 😂
This scene was one of the scariest Lost moments of not THE scariest. The darkness, the facial mannerisms the music at 1:35....legit chills
Reese: Finch! That's not Locke! He's not the victim! He's the perpetrator... Finch? FINCH?!
I love this comment so much
Technical this one, but i've got the reference
POI is a great series. I watched POI because of Michael Emerson's amazing performance on Lost.
Haha awesome I love it!
Then Jacob becomes Lucifer
God I loved the score of this whole show
Damn...this is the most important scene in the entire show.
If only Jacob explained to Ben he wasn't Locke instead of provoking him he might still be alive.
*Because it was always part of the plan -- Jacob knew what would have happened ~*
No. Jacob gave Ben a choice. Ben chose to kill him. Simple as that.
Yet that was the point. If Jacob told him then would he really be making a choice? Also at this point Jacob already had his replacements and pretty much was done with his job, in other words he wanted to die.
@@Mellowlo you say it like murdering someone who did you no harm is not a bad choice after all. ben has given a choice and he made it.
It's a pretty obvious God analogy and Jacob is supposed to be the Christ-like figure. Ben's anger at the god of the island (Jacob) for seemingly abandoning him in his greatest moment of desperation is pretty relatable for a lot of people
Is that chair the same rocking chair from the cabin?
Couldn't blame ben for this one
Lol really? Ben was an arrogant asshole - Jacob responding him "what about you?" perfectly places it, there is nothing special about anybody but only their actions speak for them. Ben thought that following orders and playing along in matter of "means to an end" would grant him "special" treating or place but the whole point of the "test" was to find a person which is good from the heart and is not doing anything for a "reward" but just only that it needs to be done - that's why Johns "grace" was passed to Jack.
@@verniks Jacob killed thousands upon thousands of people by bringing them to the island just because he wanted to a prove the Man In Black wrong. And it took him 2000 years for him eventually to be right.
He's a horrible leader.
@@verniks Better an arrogant asshole than an indifferent one.
@@verniks I agree. Ben instead should of uppercut him first, followed by a suplex, launching Jacob straight into the fireplace
I can't think of any possible alternative reason for the line "What about you?" other than Jacob intentionally provoking Ben into murdering him. "Part of the plan."
Saying that line to someone who is clearly emotional, feeling undervalued and ignored, how could that *possibly* go well?
In Jacob's flashback episode, his mother says he doesn't know how to lie. The point was to be honest about his feelings toward Ben and that Ben should make the right choice in face of the truth. Jacob says its meaningless if he has to influence anybodies decision to do whats right. Miles tells Ben that Jacob was hoping he was wrong about Ben, so obviously he didn't want Ben to kill him. Jacob also had Brahm and his men en route to the staue so that if Ben chose not to kill Jacob, they would secure the area and get things under control. So Jacob had plans for multiple contingencies but he definitely wasn't trying to provoke Ben, he was just being honest about how he has no sympathy for Ben because of how wicked a person he is.
Jacob could have 100% beaten Ben in a fight if he had resisted
Most of the characters on the show could beat Ben in a fight if they resisted, including Claire (even when she was pregnant)
@Torque don't speak but type yes. But Ben was at a very emotional state here
@@pnorbert2222Not in reality haha
I think Jacob got the point, Ben
For a guy who lived for so long, Jacob proved total lack of social skills, if not sheer stupidity.
It was all planned. Jacob wanted to die in order for someone else, like Jack, then Hurley, to take his place as protector. Living for over 2000 years, defending the island from his brother, he knew he wouldn't win alone, so he had to die in order for Desmond to remove the stone, then Jack to fight the smoke monster who had lost powers, and then Kate to kill him, and then Desmond to put the stone cork back.
@@ranker4I don't think he wanted to die. He went through the trouble of bring brahm and his men back to the island to enter the statue moments after Locke and Ben got there. He wanted them to secure the place if Ben decided not to kill him.
It's like his mother said, Jacob doesn't know how to lie. And he wanted to give Ben his choice, it's like the man in black said, he knew he was defeated. The point was to prove people would make the right choice without Jacob having to step in
@@user-hu9vi7nk1lNo it was his mission to find an exchange and like Jack discovered it inside while they talked to Jacob he waited what Ben would become without further infos. In fact Jacob was born into with a lack of knowledge and reasons for this situation so he had nothing more to say. The questioning with Sawyer Kate Jack and Hurley showed that he didnt know it himself how to decide. He waited til someone else took the decision and it might cld have been Ben when he had searched for it but after all he wanted to stay as a Dharma and corrupt others.
@@stillgotyourmom he had it all planned out from the beginning. Mib told Jack that he expected to be more surprised by who Jacob chose. He chose hurley.
For however much Lost is remembered poorly there were always nice moments even in the latter seasons.
It was just the weird outcome that messed up the show, it still have some great set up and amazing seasons all through it... it's just that magic light doesn't really cut it, that alienated me. Still great show, meh ending.
@@gwh3013 I don't think there's any point the premise doesn't work they just lost a sense for the execution. Even the magic light stuff, there was always this pseudo-science framing of everything that they needed to lean more into, and then the dichotomy with faith and purpose which was always relied more heavily on implication, with specifically the implication that to name it explicitly is a type of folly. Jacob saying by the end that "it doesn't mean anything if I just tell them what's right and wrong" was the real killer, the show lived and died by its subtleties.
@@beastworld8109No you just didnt get it as your "science aproval" showed!
@@gwh3013No you just didnt understand the meaning.
@@stillgotyourmom no actually the meaning of the show - right up until the last season - is that you can't name the agencies of predestination explicitly. The more you believe yourself to be witnessing them at hand, and subsequently the more effort you make to identify them, to scientifically quantify them, the more unreliable they become. And if an agency of predestination becomes unreliable for you individually? It takes the form of your life falling apart. This is apparent in most of the major character arcs in the show, like Hurley's schizophrenic delusions becoming more mendacious and pushing him to suicide, John Locke losing his wife for all he stalks his father, Ben losing his control over the island for presuming to be any closer to the will of Jacob, and then needless to say Jack's whole estrangement from his abusive father who he desperately seeks reconciliation for and winds up transferring to half the cast of the show. The show betrays itself because on the very terms its set up you're not *meant* to know the nature of predestination, you're not *meant* to hear what your life was worth all along, you're not *meant* to have a first hand knowledge of the afterlife and you're not *meant* to win the respect and understanding of the abusive figures in your life who've been tormenting you when they themselves are only taking their frustration out for what they believed they themselves were *meant* to be witness to. You should watch the film "A Serious Man" by the Coen Brothers, does a much better job of telling the story Lost fumbled at the end.
I thought no one comes in unless he invites someone in?
Wouldn’t MIB rolling Jacob into the fire be against the rules, since he was still alive when he did it? The fire was
more likely to kill him before the stab wounds did.
Jacob was a dick for not communicating. could have saved so many lives instead he was at the same level as MOB. Literally metaphor for God not stopping the Devil and his games. Both as equally guilty in innocent death love the protrayed in the series
Jacob got what he deserved. Played with the lives of man because his ego was too big to admit he might be wrong about them.
He could have said literally anything that was just. Sorry Ben or anything and he would have loved uuuggghhh
Team MIB always
I don’t understand. The only way someone could kill Jacob if he was stabbed before he could even utter a word. Here, jacob had a full conversation with Ben
Maybe u're confusing him with MiB?
@@artembaranov Richard tried to kill Jacob too..but he already spoke
Thats not true. Thats just something MiB told Richard to get him to kill Jacob before he could tell him what was really going on. Jacob could be killed at any time by anyone.
The idea that certain people could only be killed if they didnt talk first was just a manipulation to get people to kill them quickly or be killed. As I said MiB told Richard to kill him before he spoke because he wanted Jacob dead and if Richard thought Jacob was the devil MiB wanted to maintain that illusion as that was the only way he could be sure to manipulate Richard into killing Jacob.
Dogen said it to Sayid because he thought MiB would just kill him. MiB could not be killed because he was connected to the source, thats why Desmond needed to put the light out temporarily.
@Josh Wheeler only a leader could kill Jacob. That’s why Locke/MIB convinced Ben to kill him. I don’t get how Richard comes into the equation
@@neoluddite5676 There were no rules who could kill a protector. Jack and Jacobs mother were killed by MiB, Richard could have killed Jacob if he hadnt defended himself, Jacob was killed by Ben who was no longer the leader of the others.
And being the leader of the others comes with no abilities, its just a title for leading the group who "follow" Jacobs rules through Richard.
MiB didnt make Ben kill Jacob because he had been a leader (Ben wasnt even technically allowed to go into the statue as he was no longer a leader and had not been invited), he manipulated him into killing Jacob because MiB scanned him and watched him growing up and realised Ben had a desire for power and all he wanted was to be considered special and when he realised he wasnt he would lash out. He knew Ben would be jealous and wouldnt understand why he wasnt worthy of meeting Jacob but John Locke was and he also knew how Ben basically sacrificed everything (including his daughter) in service of Jacob but Jacob would still see Ben as not worthy due to his motivations being corrupt.
Therefore MiB was unable to kill Jacob because of Mother's rule so he needed someone to do it for him. He tried to use Richard's religious superstitions to manipulate him into killing him but failed. He obviously tried with multiple people over the years but they all ended up dead but eventually managed to get Ben to do it. It didnt matter to MiB who it was, he just needed someone who could be manipulated into doing it.
I hate Jacob. I’ve would have been Berry’s (MIB) right hand man.
Berry? is that his name? how do you know that?
@@charles2521 there is a skit on youtube of an old comic con where mib name was reveal.
Funny but unlikely , i do not think Barry was a common name during egyptian era
@@mddi1420 Names can also be "translated", like Jesus whose real name was Yeshua.
loved lost, great show. however simple things! if jacob simply said, thats not john, a whole lot of bother would have been resolved. He gets it in the 6th series first thing when its too late
Jacob dies like Jesus.He died because he had to
jacob needed to die to have someone else kill the mib because of the rules
he could have done a lot of things to prevent his death including simply fighting off ben. i think after living for 2000 years and being in an eternal conflict with his brother he was just tired and was ready to die.
Great acting from Michael Emerson, but the whole scene is stupid. Jacob is trying to stop this great evil from being unleashed into the world and he chooses to be flippant and non-caring to a person who's his brother's tool. God the writing really tanked after S4.
They never expected the show to be that big of a hit. So they had to finish without a real plan. Kinda like GOT
Jacob stated that he doesn't want to tell people what to do, what's right or wrong. He wants them to decide for themselves.
the dude was 2000 years old and his entire existence was an eternal conflict with his brother. i get the feeling he was just tired and was ready to die by this point.
@@GetYourPull18 yeah but he could have informed Ben that 'Lock' was actually someone else.. I mean , that wouldn't make it not a choice, just a choice with more information. it'd still be choice. Jacob has some great scenes but his plan is kinda stupid.
@@gwh3013 The information that Locke wasn't actually Locke doesn't have any impact on whether it'd be moral for Ben to kill Jacob, who was an unarmed, non-threatening person whose home they just invaded, over petty recognition. Ben was fully capable of recognizing this. Jacob telling Ben about Locke may get Ben to not kill Jacob, but not because Ben realized it's wrong, only because "smoke monster bad".
Jesus Christ loves you all
Amen
Then why do we eat him on Sunday
@@lSomeRandomGuyl are you serious right now?
Ok, and your point is....?
@@nickv.s125 that Jesus Christ loves you all.