Building a Windows 10 Retro Gaming PC
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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Valve should seriously consider releasing a Legacy App for older OSes.
STEAM for Linux, just enable Proton/Linux Runtime for all games. it's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. I will note that at least on Manjaro Linux having an AMD GPU setup will get you better results.
@@CommodoreFan64 THATS WHY I ONLY BUY AMD!!!...EVERYTHING IS JUST EASIER!
Agree with this. I think that today still there are some games that have some problems with Win10. But you can't install Steam in WinXP now so...
@@nathanielbolden5053 I get your point, but no need to yell. I will admit as a very long time on/off Linux user since the mid 90's, and only going Linux full time last year on all my systems(except my old Pentium 4 98se/XP build for physical games I own) It use to be easier on distros like Linux Mint to get up, and running with Nvidia drivers, but since the 4.20 Linux Kernel updates it's been the total opposite with AMD stepping up their game big time. Now all I have to do in Manjaro w/ Budgie DE is run my Pamac updates, and kernel updates, and reboot, then all is good.
@@CommodoreFan64 man I cant install linux to save my soul!...lol...however I have Nvidia and AMD GPU'S but the Nvidias are more difficult do install drivers on for some reason than the AMD and my computer always crashes when I install my Nvidia card but runs like a clock with the AMD!...dont know why!
"Have I lost my mind? Maybe I have (!?)..." words of insanity right there
cue "I Wish That I Was A Mad Man
"
@@NightMotorcyclist another tech yes citizen!
When someone's retro gaming PC is better than your PC 😂
Haha sad
F
Yes so true, my main PC was a 4770k..
yep gtx 750 is my main gpu
My main is a p4 2.6 ghz 2gb ram and a 32mb agp card
All this time I never even thought to create a custom 4:3 1080p resolution in the display settings. Thanks Phil
You're by far the best parts hunter I've ever seen! Thank you for everything you do sir, you've opened my eyes to a whole new world of value parts with your videos!
A little like watching Ashens' videos but with older computer parts if you want to go for the best bang for buck and don't mind choosing an old platform with high end parts at the time that stil has untapped potential like hexa core Xeons or similar paired with a five generations newer graphics card and what else is offering the best.
Phil's Computer Lab is the most hilarious and yet informative Channel ON UA-cam! I love this guys' voice and his narrative. He's so cool, calm and collective in his thoughts. And by him ALWAYS talking about the Computer parts that he's going to use, this information is imperative to give you an inside look at what YOU will need to get a retro gaming PC going. Keep doing your thing my man!!!
Thank you 😊
15 years later: the windows 10 retro gaming pc
exactly thats retro
If Windows 10 is retro in 15 years my Windows 7 based retro and DR would be vintage lol
You know you're getting old when someone calls a Windows 10 system on Sandy Bridge with a 900 series card "Retro Gaming"
I just upgraded from Ivy Bridge a couple of months ago -.-
Jarsky don’t worry I’m still using a sandy bridge i72600 and have no need to upgrade honestly. I have no issue in any games I play, even new games like SOTR and RDR2 since I’m using an AMD RX 570 and only target 60fps anyway. I will probably wait a generation or two and save my money so I can jump to the high end of gaming.
Frits Felix if you bought the skylake chip used the that’s not a horrible upgrade and it will last you a while still.
@@CostaClicks Yeah the *only* reason I upgraded was for BF5. I have 1440p 144Hz and was getting inconsistant frames with 100% CPU with i7 3770K @ 4.4Ghz on EVGA Z77 FTW w/DDR3-2133. I upgraded to a Ryzen 2700x on X470 w/DDR4-3200 which fixed the issue. Most other games though like SWBF2, AC Odyssey, PUBG, etc...ran just fine though, it was the more CPU bound games that forced it otherwise i'd still be on the platform.
Jokes on you 😁, I'm still using my 2500k stock 😂
I'm not even old (13) and Im surprised too..
Valve should really release a cut-down version of Steam that works on Windows XP and maybe Windows 9x, something like "Steam Classic". It would't have to support all the community and other various features in Steam, we have our main PCs for that, all I want is to be able to download and launch my older games.
If done with an offline steam drive definitely would be cool
The problem is that web browser engines are no longer supported for older operating systems. I would hazard a guess that this is why XP support was dropped.
Remembering when fps back in the day began with "2" or "3", and today it is the same, but now it is triple digits 😁
*Cries in Pentium 4*
When he was talking about ram I thought he was about to say you can just download more if you need
These retro builds specs are getting closer and closer to my PC specs... it's the same feeling as realising kids born in 2002 are adults now.
Damn, I just sold off my GTX960, before trying some of my older games. But I'm running a 1920x1200 monitor and that's awesome for retro games since I can run them in the 4K of the days of old - 1600x1200. I went team Red with a RX580.
Sees new Phils Computer lab, clicks, hits like, comments then watches because some things just aren't ever unlikable XD
Happy New Year Phil (if that's your name) and wishing you 500k subs by end 2020 or maybe 1M!
My retro PC is an i7 8086K 5.0ghz all core overclock, 32g ram, 1080 ti, Acer predator 27" gsync monitor, RME UCX, win10. Love playing old games on new hardware and especially like doom, wolf3d, duke 3d etc running in new environments at 165 fps, fantastic stuff! I'm happy so many people are making use of everything, new old and this channel seems to be helping a lot of people. Great video, great start to the new year, cheers!
I tend to think a comparison back in XP land between an AGP system and an early PCI Express video system would be very interesting. I seem to recall that Intel 865 vs Intel 975 was about the transition point. Or a Dell 4600 vs 4700. I learn a lot about motherboards, CPUs and computer history from watching your videos and it helps to frame an understanding about more modern system choices. Maybe you could do a video special on CPU evolution and Graphics choices.
Basically a windows 10 pc
There's literally nothing retro about it.
@@MJ-uk6lu It was build in the last decade. That counts.
Yes, but one that has considered a particular use case and approach. In reality what would be say the difference between grabbing Asrock A300 Deskmini build and using that? I don't know, I suspect it would work fine with a 2400G although a dGPU will always be better?
If you have an old XP box that you have been using for old games then you now need to upgrade and so it is valid to look at how to go about that.
@@Kumimono No, it's much newer than that. Anyway, there's nothing particularly different in that computer to make it stand out from a new computer. Is CPU on card? no. Is GPU from before AMD days? No. Does GPU have fixed pipeline? No. Does it have any older type connectors? No. No matter how look at it, there's nothing retro in that machine. It's just that it's quite modern lower end PC playing older games.
@@MJ-uk6lu 2019 is last decade. :p
The 4K down-scaling trick is neat. Thank you. The title intrigued me and it was more interesting than I thought it would be!
yay Retro and GOG and Old School, I just tried Steam and it boots up just fine on my Win 7 Xeon PC, Bladerunner is back on GoG now yay
That retro build is way too modern. With a gtx 750ti could go more than enough, but I would say that is better to go with xeon configuration as it is cheaper or in a very similar price-point and it performs way better.
He does have a point though about some older games like Crysis running much better with a higher clocked CPU, something XEONs lack, but I could never say a system "can't run Crysis" just because the fps dips below 60, and back then nobody cared about 1% and 0.1% Lows. :D When Crysis came out, a great many would have been delighted to be able to run it at above 30 or 40 fps (I hammered the hell out of my dual GTX 580 setup using custom settings to have huge draw distances because I hate LOD popin; lower fps didn't bother me, 45 was typical). I suppose the one thing a better GPU will do is keep the minimum fps up higher, but clearly for some older games a GTX 960 is overkill; depends on the game.
I smiled when he said the price of the i5; for that same cost I bought two 6c/12t XEON E5 2640s. :D They perform quite well for modern games because of newer APIs and better game engines; years ago, 2nd-hand XEONs were not that appealing for gaming due to their lower clocks and lack of engine/API optimisation, but it's very different now. I've just finished some testing under Win10 (comparing to Win7), kinda cool to see all 24 threads active when running Metro LL (mbd is a Kllisre dual-S2011, identical to the board LTT recently reviewed; mine has 64GB/1866 ECC, testing initially with a 780 Ti, later an RX 580 8GB, 1080 Ti, etc.) though some games have an odd habit of constantly moving threads onto one CPU instead of exploiting all 12 pure cores (Hitman 2 and GTA V both do this). Re CPU performance, IPC is of course quite low (1T CB R20 of 215) but multithreaded tasks run nicely (nT CB R20 of 3041). Amusing to see how close it gets to my 5GHz 2700K in some games (though the 2700K does produce better Lows):
www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/rottr.txt
Three Serious Sam on GOG, and you should use a crt! :) I play Duke
Nukem, Quake(s), Doom(s) etc... at 112hz (800x600) on my eMac and this is great!
:)
The core i5 can still handle most of today's modern task so it's still pretty usable the 2400 holds up pretty well
Next Video: Building a Quantum-Computing Retro Gaming PC
It would be better to do Windows 7 or 8.1 instead of Windows 10 since some games like Bejeweled Twist have issues working on Windows 10 correctly.
Great video Phil. I've been doing this for years myself and it's good to see someone spreading the word.
when this is retro, then my Socket 7 machine with Pentium MMX 233MHz and Gravis Ultrasound must be a relict of a forgotten world.
Blimey, not seen the word Gravis in years. :D
I love your low price to performance vids and show what different older sockets offer for a cheap price.
My "best of both world" machine is an oc'd G3258(4.5ghz),8 gigs of ram and an oc'd 2gb GTX950 and dual boot XP and win10.Allows me to run quite a range of game up to more "recent"(xbox 360 era) titles.
Sounds like a good alternative especially with the situation of xp not being covered..
Actually one modern PC is enough for all PC gaming needs.
1. DOSBox for convenient DOS gaming.
2. PCem for those few games that don't run well in DOSBox and a retro feel of Windows 9x + 3DFX PC.
3. VirtualBox for Windows 9x and XP games that don't run well in Windows 10.
4. Windows 10 for everything else.
Emulation/virtualization isn't ideal, but it's good enough in 99% cases. Everyone who is interested in retro PCs should start with it, especially with PCem, since it replicates old PCs very well, before getting older machine.
Old PCs, especially DOS ones without Plug&Play can be tricky to configure. No color coding of connectors, no locked pins on cables (you can connect IDE/FDD cable in reverse!) and tons of jumpers that are impossible to configure if you can't get manual in PDF.
PCem isn't perfect, but it gives you most of the experience, but without hardware issues.
Sandy Bridge should still be used as viable modern hardware... Go just one more generation back to first gen Nehalem/Westmere Core, and that could be considered prime for building a Retro gaming machine.
The lack of or inclusion of the AVX instruction set extensions in a CPU should be the dividing line between Retro and Modern.
On the AMD side, this same line would be drawn between Socket AM3 (K10) without the AVX instructions, and Socket AM3+ (Bulldozer).
Just as a possible addendum, or perhaps even an addition, I have an AMD machine that runs retro games quite well (obviously, there are a few exceptions that refuse to run, but it's played 95% of what I've thrown at it, a fair bit through DOSBox, granted, but still); a GIgabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 supporting an AMD FX-8350 (FX-6300 also runs retro games quite well), 24GB (I also use my rig for image editing, so I got the extra for rendering filters, so replace this with what you think is necessary) of RAM and an XFX Radeon RX 560 (4GB) (I play some more modern games, too, so there's that), with a 512GB SSD running Win10 64-bit for obvious gaming reasons. Granted, this is a 1080p build (I personally have no interest in 4k, so it's enough for me), but the 560 allows for black bar aspect ratio preservation and GPU scaling at good frame rates.
Which modern games do you play? I always thought rx 560 was like a minecraft card 😂and that you needed 570 to play modern and light aaa games
Dont waste your time, just buy an old machine, it will do a much better job.
@@mael6513 Skyrim SE, Falout 4, Spyro Reignited Trilogy, Doom (2016), Space Engineers, Tomb Raider, No Man's Sky, Elite: Dangerous, it's a bit limited, but Planet Coaster. Most of them Med to High, but a few, like FO4, Skyrim SE and Spyro, I can run maxed with what I consider decent frames, and that's fairly heavily modded, barring Spyro, of course. The 560 is sort of equivalent to a GTX 1050. It's not the best there is, but it plays a fair bit. Edit: Oh, Also The Witcher 3 and Wreckfest. It runs those pretty well, too.
Ayyyy 8350 fam. I have a gtx 1060 3gb and the fx. Lots of the games i wanted to play wouldn't start, but yeah the high clocks make it great for anything 2012 back basically.
@@Synthematix Care to let people make up their own mind?
Majority of Phils project are considered retro.
ANd you are genuinely one of my favourite channels; keep doing what you do as your genuine enthusiasm comes through.
Hah! Watching this 4 years later because I thought "would be cool to have a win 10 retro machine ready to go when I feel nostalgic for it"
(As I'm currently *hating* windows 11)
You can even today download an archived version of Steam in Windows XP and still be able to download and play retro games in Windows XP. Steam doesn't let you do this directly on their site, however thankfully someone was smart enough to archive the last compatible version of Steam from November of 2018.
This is exactly what I've done. Now my prior comment is redundant. :) Liking and commenting in hopes to get more attention to this workaround. XP retro gaming is not dead (yet)! :)
It will work untill they update api or something else, till that time there is some fun atleast.
@@Ambiphonic I tried running Steam on my old Sony Vaio desktop PC and it still launches just fine in Windows XP media center edition 2005. I used it the other night to play Oblivion which is my favorite PC game of 2006.
Ambiphonic no guarantee as for how long the older version of Steam in Windows XP will be able to connect to the Steam servers
Nice video as always. As for me personally, I have somewhat similar dedicated system for my retro games but it is running proper Windows XP. It has a small form factor so the power supply is not that powerful, that's why I chose H61-based motherboard paired with the fastest 3,5GHz CPU out of all the "Low TDP" options - IvyBridge DualCore i3-3250 (For Crysis mostly). And also due to power supply constrains, for GPU I use the GTX950, one of the models (ASUS
GTX950-2G) without external power connector. Yes there is no "DynamicSuperResolution" - downscaling options in control panel but you can easily force "real" Super-Sampling anti-aliasing of up to 8x, using "nVidia Profile Inspector" utility! I really enjoy using this PC and of course it has the Sound Blaster X-Fi for those awesome EAX effects! As for games, for some I use the GOG versions, but mostly my own backups combined with CD-emulation (Daemon Tools).
That sounds really good!
Remember that some retro games especially from the XP era won't run properly on Windows 10, like Alias (crashes to desktop after launching), The Suffering (crashes at some points), etc.
I guess that's what's slightly off with the video as it tends to imply most if not all retro games will work. I still have a dedicated retro box for each major generation of games I play (i.e. Dos 6.2, Wind 95, Win 98, Win XP) and the WinXP box right now is a pain because of Steam's changes. I hope I kept it offline or I'm in trouble.
@@normaldude24 Steam is a pain in the ass and that's why I prefer physical releases for older games over Steam. SafeDisc DRM is still better than Steam's since there's more resale value on it
For lower end systems running lighter operating systems, there's always something like LXLE, which is a Ubuntu that supports Steam even on lighter systems. Although i haven't fully gotten it to work yet..
Most of the older games that are on Steam, but not GOG, I just bought non-DRM disc copies of. Such as the older GTA games or Halo: Combat Evolved.
weekly friday video , always exact on time, good German, like allways reliable like this channel
Do you have a video on making the best widows xp system? And not in hardware, but more in software. I always wonder if i HAVE to install all updates or not, after a fresh install. And SP3? And things like directx websetup.. or vccredist... It would be so nice to know what to actually have installed to make it running properly. Because even after hours of installing and updating windows xp, a lot of games would give me problems even still.
Still use a 4790k the only thing retro about it is the m.2 is capped at 1000MB/s
I also had that audio problem with some games in alchemy. But i noticed that you really dont need to add them if the game already have EAX in the options. That's why the sound is off or glitched out. Doom 3 for an example, Doom 3 on steam (NOT BFG) has EAX already. So adding it to alchemy wont do anything. The game already comes updated to 1.3.1 :)
Hey Phil, could you make a video about retrogaming under linux? Now that we have some steam proton, lutris, playonlinux, gog games without all the drm, and other stuff?
I aways hear that its possible to retrogame under linux, and better than, modern gaming on it, see some ratings for games compatibility under wine as platinum but wasn't able to make them work.
To not say i wasn't able to run any retro games at all, i was able to run resident evil 3 in a at n455 netbook i had back then, under ubuntu 12.04, but it had some graphical glitches like dead pixels (out of the game the screen was perfect), but this was likelly due to my buggy and dying and half supported gma 3150.
GMA graphics and an N455 Atom don't make for an ideal retro gaming system, under any OS. But yes, things have improved for Linux gamers in recent times. Wine is rather hit-and-miss, though I can at least enjoy a couple of my favourites using it: the original Sniper Elite, Medal of Honor Allied Assault, and Age of Empires. You may find installing Play On Linux helpful, as you can install multiple versions of Wine, and set a game to run under a particular version.
@@MarkTheMorose No no, for sure it isn't! It was just what i used as a daily driver a long time ago, where i tried to see if it would run, wich it did. Btw, that netbook is dead, i have a core2duo as my retro gaming machine, but it runs windows xp, so no support nor safety to me.
I tried pol before, but it either gave some errors on installing the game, or pol itself would die when i tried to open it, it would just loop the load animation forever and never open again.
The closest i got, was running league of legends in a i5 laptop with ubuntu 14.04 (or 16.04, i don't quitr remember), but after a clean system reinstall after a failed dist upgrade, i wasn't able to open the game after installing it, it aways gave the bugsplat screen.
Older titles i was never able to run under pol.
But i confess i forgot it when i made my comment, i would want it to be included in that video i asked for.
Edit: i remembered that even tho it's support was abysmal under linux it was actually the best it could have, better than under windows, it due to the community making the opensource driver way better than intel's windows shitty driver. It had a way higher OGL version. It was like 1.2 vs 2.4 or something in those lines.
@@eduardoavila646 why not run that XP machine standalone?...if you have multiple computers then just use those for online.
I run Wine Staging 5.01 for non Steam and Proton 4.11 for Steam and have no issues for the most part. Also use nGlide for 3Dfx. GT1030 plays anything retro fine as well. Debian 10 Buster, rather than Ubuntu I also compile certain games for my installation to run natively, like Quake 2 and Forsaken . Doom 3 also has a native patch for linux, as do a lot of Id software games.
@@matthewplehn4271 I play online with some friends some older games too, and its easier to download stuff or transfer games, share games with friends, fix problems with the OS, and xp itself is a big security whole in there.
Pair that with the fact i frequently work home, that several people bring their laptops to my network, i have to keep my network safe.
Not only that, but steam for windows xp doesnt exist anymore, discord wont install, and other programs i would use also won't work.
So xp isn't really a good option.
In a more common case where i live, the person does retrogaming simply because it's machine isn't capable or running anything new, and buying a new one isn't much a option. So for example i replaced a pentium 4 for a e6700 and added 2gb of ram and a ssd in a friends 12 year old or so pc, and i gave him this smal upgrade as a birthday gift. He really doesn't have the money to buy for example a modern i5 desktop. And he ends up liking old games better anyway, so we got a core2duo @2.4ghz 4gb of ram, ssd, he awready had a pcie gpu, so he ended up using w10 in there to be able to acess his banking account. The old wXP he had there wouldnt do it.
Now he can install more modern software in there, like steam, discord, spotify, etc.
Linux could do it too, and be wsy lighter than w10 in his case for example. Not to mention that i kinda like the philosophy behind some linux distros, and like them.
I've been using a version of Steam from Nov 2018 without updating for my Windows XP machines. I zipped up this entirely folder and push it out to any new builds. I am still able to get online and download content by using PiHole to block the steam client update servers. The same could be done in the hosts file for Windows XP. The biggest problem for a new user is finding the download for the last version of Steam that worked with XP. Also of note, I did have to run with the commandline option '-noverifyfiles' to fix one of my projects but mostly it's seamless.
I have since moved on to buying exclusively from GoG if the game is available there. This solution will only work so long as Steam doesn't update its login authentication.
Its likely that the games will have to be cracked to be able to play on xp if steam does update the login authentication system, most if not all have already been cracked.
No friday video this week! You okay? Hope you're not on fire.
I was just wondering the same. He is such a constant guy. And as I read in the news the fires are far from been controlled
he replied to a comment yesterday so he must be fine.
I thought you are going to use GTX 750 TI since it was the last (i think, and the idea is without using any adapter) with VGA/D-SUB Output combined with CRT Monitor, but not disappointed since that is my Current Setup, playing Retro Games Compatible with Win 10 + Emulators with XBOX 360, PS3 and WII U Pro Controller... But I'm a Fan of Yours, the idea of GTX 750 TI + CRT... Give it a chance PhilsComputerLab =)
I know you wrote without any adapter, but the GTX 900 series is the last one with a DVI-I output, so you can use a passive adapter to VGA/D-SUB which doesn't add any latency or issues whatsoever, works perfectly fine with a CRT
@@Z4uberwuerfel Thanks for the idea bro 👌
Doom III doesnt need Alchemy since it's a native OpenAL game, so EAX 4.0 should work right off the bat. Also, the Maxwell family of Nvidia GPU's (900 series) do not support VRR through Gsync-compatible/FreeSync monitors, only through monitors with the Gsync module. GTX 10 series support Gsync-compatible through DisplayPort while the RTX 20 and GTX 16 series support Gsync-compatible through both DisplayPort and HDMI (for displays that support HDMI Forum VRR mind you, not HDMI FreeSync that is exclusive to AMD GPU's).
your obsession with old games infected me!
Im playing the old Far Cry more oftenly than RDR2...
Yes! And I'm using my Athlon II X2 240 OC (4MB DDR2 & HD 5770 512MB) far more often than my R5 3600 and i7 3770...FML
FC might be a better game, I know I love it.
@@Babicoste what socket your CPU bro?...and does your GPU require power from your PSU?
@@nathanielbolden5053 It's Biostar MCP6P M2+ (Socket AM2+/AM2)
My X240 can be overclocked to 3.3GHz using this mobo
The GPU itself requires 1x6 pci-e power (it's a Sapphire model ) using 400W PSU 80+ Bronze
@@Babicoste Do you believe biostar brand is good and make decent mobos? I wanna know if i go with biostar tb350 im afraid only 1 year warranty.
That driving looks like you made this video on New Year's day
Phil is a madlad!
I love this channel. I feel like bane from Batman is explaining everything..
On a 1155 build like that, it would be very easy to dual boot Windows XP 32 for compatibility, and Windows 10 64 for extra features and performance. Best of both worlds.
Honestly, this blows my mind. I had no idea it would work this well in Win 10, and frankly never even tried it. Really cool, I'm gonna have to play around with this for sure! Especially after the lovely GOG sales recently where I found some real gems.. :D
Happy 2020, Phil! Looking forwards to all your videos in the coming year. :)
I love the idea of making older games look even better than they did. Nice job, yet again.
That Nice Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warfare
That's an interesting project... not too unlike my quest for the ultimate WinXP machine :)
Great video as always, Phil. A suggestion: you might try exploring DSOAL for surround sound/HRTF/EAX and maybe make a video about that if it's any good.
It's basically my secondary machine now.
Started out as a Lenovo M71e tower
CPU: i3-2120
RAM: 4 GB DDR3-1033
GPU: HD2000
PSU: Ancel 240W
Storage: 250 GB HDD
Upped to
CPU: i5-2400
RAM: 8 GB DDR3-1333 (maximum on this particular mobo)
GPU: Asus GTX 960 Turbo OC 2 GB
PSU: ThermalTake SmartSE 630W (Hashwell-ready - doesn't work with my B450 Ryzen mobos)
Storage: 160 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD
Did take me about 9 months to find all the parts.
The PSU was the first upgrade, since I had it lying around, since I hadn't RMA'd it at the time.
Then I added the SSD, which is an intel series 320, which I rescued from a dead laptop (Lenovo X201)
The 1 TB HDD was from an old WD external USB HDD. Which I've had since... 2008-09?
First GPU I got was HD7770 GHz edition.
Then I got a hold of the i5-2400
Which meant I needed a new cooler, since the stock Lenovo cooler is only rated for 65W.
I went for an Inter-Tech Argus SU-200, which has an orange fan.
So for RAM I found G.Skill Ares with Orange heatspreader, matching the CPU-cooler fan.
Then I got a GTX 660
And two weeks ago I finally got a hold of the GTX 960.
Love it!
I think you're doing the right thing to game on old retro games!
The GTX 960 would not support freesync over g-sync only Pascal and above can do that
You can actually download a single ISO that has both 32-bit and 64-bit...but will need a dual-layer DVD if burning to DVD (it's ~6.5GB). When something's garbage, it doesn't really matter if it's 32-bit or 64-bit, though. ;-)
Pretty much since moving from XP I've been multi booting windows. The default Windows 7 boot menu does a good job with it too, with 10 sometimes it wants to use a GUI menu. EasyBCD is great for configuring the boot menu, you can even add DOS or Windows 9x. Over the holiday I rebuilt a couple early quad core era systems and added cheap 120gb SSDs for the OS. They are perfect, 20gb (fat32) for XP and the rest for 10. Partition on another machine with a usb to sata to make sure the the alignment is right. Install XP first and both should load with the OS on C:. Also the Snappy driver installer really help get things going (thanks for the tip).
I'm using windows 8.1, and tomb raider legend always crashes if I use a custom 16:9 resolution.
Also, evil twin: cypriens chronicles voice, music and ambient sound crashes in anything newer than xp for me. Would that program you said fix it? Or its a completely different issue?
1600x1200 4k of the old days. I like that
Don't choose Windows 10 64bit if you plan on playing any 16bit games. You need the 32bit architecture and the add the optional feature "NTVDM", found under Legacy Components.
Steam still works on Windows XP if you know where to download it! Currently works on my XP Media Center 2005 retro build:
Core 2 Quad Q9550
4GB of RAM
GTX 760 2GB
64GB SSD
1TB HDD for games
Modern Steam no longer supports in Windows XP, but I can still run STEAM on my XP gaming systems, as long as the cpu still supports certain CPU extensions. I just installed an older Steam client, patched it, and then set it up with Steam Client Updates disabled. I'm still able to download and run games on XP that way, when last I checked in 2022. I'll need to check if that's still the case in 2023, though.
Now you need to put those parts inside a beige mid-tower! What would you say for this purpose is the bare minimum hardware?
Looks actually pretty good
80's retro or 00's retro? :) first thoughts of retro is Nintendo and such. maybe a better word for old-school gaming?
Would using a Virtual machine for Windows XP, Passing the Sound card through to the VM work?
While we now are in 2020, it made wonder what would happen with everything from 2010 and later become equivalent to how pcs from 1995-2005 counts as retro not unlike cars 30 years later aren't considered modern enough and therefore becomes it's own category after a certain time has passed.
Dude great video ! Cheers from Canada
Well, if you don't have money to upgrade to a modern machine, usually a p4 machine can be kinda upgraded.
I upgraded several friends pentium 4 pcs. One of them has a hp dc5700 he used steam under wxp. We only had to add more 2x1gb ram sticks (it's now a 4x1gb setup), a sata ssd, and replace the old p4 with a e6700 (with some trickery it could even get up to a e7xxx in that case but he didn't want).
Apparently many p4 machines thay used to run wxp can be upgraded to the conroe e6xxx and some to e4xxx. Way better performance than even a pentium D at 125w, with only 65w tdp, maybe even elegible for air OC due to the original high tdp p4 heatsink these pcs have.
You can be safe, run old games and still have a usable machine incredibly!
It's a pity that a lot of people can't appreciate the benefits and differences between an integrated sound card and a semi-pro dedicated one. Of course today you have integrated audio that can have very good quality for casual use, but when you push it or need things like shielding for avoiding electrical interference in sound, hardware full-duplex, hardware audio processing and rendering, etc. the SoundBlasters are a magnificent balance between cost and benefits. About ALchemy, maybe it's because Windows10's updates. I'm still using it in Windows7 without issues.
What that massive FPS drop on the modern machinery at 3:00 :D
if you look into the community guides, you get a lot of patches for farcry. to be honest win7 is still the best solution
This machine can play games from the 90s but mine can play games from the 80s.
I have a 9 year old Core i7 2600k system. It almost meets the rigid definition of 'Retro' if we go by the 10 year rule. It runs windows 10 too but has a GTX 1070 😂. I installed FEAR and Doom on it last year and enjoyed some true retro gaming.
I would in 2023 use New Hardware. I'm now using a PC with a I5-13500, 32GB memory at 3200 XMP, RTX 3060TI. and RX 7.1 sound card. I use it for Dosbox, Emulation, anything new on Steam, Retro games that will work. Max Payne 1 won't, Max payne 2 and up does. No EAX is unfortunate. Running Windows 11. Doom 3 sounds bad. Now playing Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart. Demanding game for a RTX3060TI. Have 3 M.2 drives in the system. Load time are fast or non existent with old games. Just wonder if EAX Patches exist in Windows 11.
I just built up a AMD XP black kind of rig. FX 8350, 8GB memory for dual channel, Radeon HD 7970, and onboard sound on the Sabertooth 990FX motherboard. Might install my Fatality Recon Sound card in to that. Should support EAX. Of course the the motherboard might too. That was my high ens hardware in those days. That's what I will use for XP.
Windows 7 would be better for this, since the kernel is very similar to the one used on Windows XP. Microsoft used a new kernel starting from Windows 8.
True, although I'm assuming most people wouldn't want to upgrade their WinXP box to Win7 (or even buy a new dedicated Win7 box) just for steam games. I'm just (un?)lucky in the sense I tended to keep my old hardware growing up so I still have the retro boxes in my basement whenever I feel the hankering.
Windows 10 is not stupid for Retro gaming. There is so much that can be done with the Nvidia control panel, don't know about AMD. Set the GPU to Let the GPU do scaling and adjust desired res in game. Also security and Steam compatibility are a thing. I have a 50" 4k LG TV that does 144Hz 1080p gaming. Ya Windows 10 for me. I was having a problem with Jazz Jackrabbit 2 were the 4 sides were cut off. Let GPU do scaling fixes that in Nvidia control panel. Plus there are other scaling options. Also with Windows 10, there is best drivers support ever for Nvidia. DosBox games work well too. Jazz Jackrabbit is awesome in Dosbox on windows 10.
I can't get XP to even update properly any more. That's a good reason for Windows 10. No internet with XP, XP Windows Update won't load without .net updates that I can't seem to get in correct order. I tried to make a Ivy Bridge I3-3240 machine and could not get the 2.0 to 3.5 .net family update to install. It's just too much of a pain in the ass anymore to get things to work at all in XP. Too much red tape and bullshit. Aside from that I still have a working XP machine with a Radeon HD 7970, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 memory with a Q9650 running at 3.064 GHz do to my Motherboard limitations, just black screen if I went any higher. That's good enough. Again, no Steam. XP sucks right now. . net kills it. I wish someone would upload all of the updates for it after SP3. It's to time consuming to get it to work if your lucky.
Another good reason for Windows 10 is the fact that Windows 7 is dying. End support January 20, 2020. That also sucks. Windows 10 is coming to be the only option soon. I would just use Windows 10 at this point anyway. XP has a few games that are only for it. Other than that, Windows 10. Too hard to get XP and Windows 7 to run. Windows 7 take a small eternity to update too if they don't completely kill Windows update in Windows 7 too. Not to mention that 8 and 8.1 are probably dead as well.
The days of old OS's are coming to a end. Clouds and ransomware will be a problem for us. And yes I would love to get XP working with a I3-3240. That means I can upgrade CPU to I7-3770. Also have a 980ti GPU. I think that XP support ended with 10 series GTX GPUs.
Windows 10 will do modern and old games for the most part. It should be a worthwhile thing to consider. I just hate the E waste from old hardware. There is also Ubuntu with with Retropie for emulation. I don't think that it support DosBox, it might. That's also slow to set up. Ubuntu and Mint work with Retropie. ETA Prime has tutorial on how to set that up.
In the end, stay with a Windows system. Linux is only other limited alternative. XP is completely limited. At least Linux supports some Steam apps, but limited without WINE. Best is Windows 10 for general gaming. Hopefully developers iron out bugs in games. I have a interactive game called Dream Chronicles that won't work on Windows 10 because it needs Adobe Flash Player, we all know that it's considered a security threat and can't be remedied in Windows 10. XP is system for that game. Just one example.🤞🤷♂️
Great video Phill, I'd be interested to see Freesync and/or Gsync in action on Dosbox.
Haha this title, nice and original video dude :D
Just FYI I was talking to a Russian UA-camr who specializes in testing 2011 chips for gaming and he says that many of the Xeons that are only rated for 1333mhz RAM will run 1600Mhz no problem and that some of the 1600Mhz chips can go as high as 2133Mhz just by tweaking the RAM settings in the BIOS.
Anyway I'd never heard of such a thing but he says he has been having good luck getting the RAM on those 2011 boards to run at higher speeds than the CPUs are rated for, just something I thought you might be interested to know to see if you have the same luck. The guy is called Artem Browser if you want to ask him which specific board he is using, since he only tests CPUs he doesn't talk about the boards in his vids, well at least I don't think he does as I no speak the Russian :-)
Freesync works on NVidia starting from 10X0 series
Recently I've been playing Drakan on my modern computer, I found out it runs well at 4k after unofficial patches. It surprised me because I totally expected to it just not to work and give some obscure error. If you ever run out of ideas for videos, there could be a venue to explore, how to play old games on new hardware.
I've done similar videos in the past, tweak guides for older games and they missed the target with the audience I'm afraid. Also, PC Gaming Wiki covers this very nicely, I must say.
I will dedicate my old gaming rig for this. It's a i5 3570K @4.4. It is getting a bit slow for the newest games, but still great for the older ones.
There are several old steam builds compatible with XP that are on archive.org. I just played steam games on Windows XP this morning.
Thanks for the vid. Which test bench are you using? It looks pretty sturdy
I7-3770 might be that magic cpu for crysis. Also, Windows 10 is better for aspect ratio. You can also build a better than budget pc with Windows 10. HMM, Maybe RTX with Ryzen, and play old game with new games too. 64 bit will be best. Should support anything except certain XP games. XP needs XP system or dual boot system. Also, can just have 2 SSDs or hard drives and just swap data cable.
For 1155 you able to install i5-3470 as well. From Ali Express
Hi Phil, watching this late. Great topic, as we have to deal with Steam for games we don’t have the original media anymore and/or not available at GOG. when I got my first CD burner, I spent USD 15 (the cost of one writable CD at the time) to backup my floppies and other DOS stuff. They are still readable today, I can make new floppies or find a way to mount them as a A drive. Anyway, I learned another one for you: the super escaling tip… yeah it was there the whole time, but never paid attention or thought of it. I just finished my XP ultimate machine on a i7 4790, GTx 970 (I have a Radeon 7970 to swap) X-FI… in a XP installed on a NVME drive - it took some digging but there are drivers backported from Win7/8 that can be integrate into the XP installation. This machine will double boot to Win 7, and after watching your video I’m considering whether should I used Win 10, for the reasons you presented. The thing about your videos is that they stay relevant even after a long time. Thanks for another interesting topic!
The differences between 7 and 10 do interest me! Though this is time consuming as you really need to test a range of games and hardware. But as these parts get older and more and more games break under 11, the community will get around to it sooner or later 🙂
I wonder if Linux + Steam + Proton works well for retro gaming...
There is actually a community patch available to fix far cry water reflections on Windows 10.
i miss that sound card, i love how it drove my headphones
I just bought one new sealed about a week ago. LOVE IT
there is a steam version on archive.org that still works for XP.
Well again I think if you are just building this for retro gaming, perhaps the latest of Core 2 platforms work better. Things such as E8400 are dirt cheap and give you fantastic experience under Windows XP. But yeah if you use them for modern tasks at the same time, 8GB of RAM is a bit more expensive and E8400 is only good for internet browsing, video playback and such in 2020.