Considering this is the most-asked question I receive, I hope this video helps those of you that have been requesting the assistance! Also, _huge thanks_ to the other UA-camrs who added their voice to this episode: Nostalgia Nerd, Metal Jesus Rocks, Pixelmusement, PushingUpRoses, Brutalmoose, RetroManCave, Phil's Computer Lab, The 8-Bit Guy, and Accursed Farms! They brought up lots of stuff I didn't think of, so I am grateful :)
Now, I love about all your content to pieces ;) Except the Sims-thingies... But that's just me xD Anyway, this is exceptionally fantastic video here! We got many different solutions and a reasoning for each and everyone of them! Definitely one of the best videos you have ever made. More old PC-stuff! I'm always in for it!
Excellent job to everyone who contributed. Perfect way to tackle this subject. I imagine videos like this are not easy to create. Looking forward to seeing more.
I'll throw in the suggestion that if you're someone who is setting up a retro PC for this kind of thing but you don't want to fart around with a huge heavy CRT monitor, there are still flatscreen VGA LCD monitors out there from the early-2000s that weigh far less, take up less space, and you still get the proper 4:3 screen ratio. I have an old VGA Dell LCD monitor from the time I keep on hand for my freelance repair work when someone brings me an older PC.
Here's my analysis of the responses: The simple solution: use emulation The practical solution: use a tricked-out 486 or Windows 98-era machine The Clint solution: own dozens of different computers to cover every possible hardware configuration
For the even lazier: 7:40 - Nostalgia Nerd 9:40 - Metal Jesus Rocks 12:12 - Pixelmusement (ADG) 14:18 - Pushing Up Roses 16:30 - Brutal Moose 19:05 - Retro Man Cave 21:35 - Phil's Computer Lab 23:42 - The 8-Bit Guy 26:12 - Accursed Farms
Hey, thanks for having me on the show! To add a bit to what you said, I'm probably a little too forward looking and I just assume everything is going to fail before it does, so I always want a future proof method of playing games. Gaming isn't really about nostalgia for me, there are just plenty of games I take years, if not decades to get around to playing and the thought of having a small window where I can play one always rubs me the wrong way. The reason I was showing off those problems was because I do think they are legitimate failings of trying to run games virtualized on modern systems (particularly with AA). As for WINE, I do plan to look into that more in the future, but from what I've seen, that's more like an additional dice toss as to whether something will run or not. I feel like DOS games we more or less have nailed down in that respect, games from this century are where it can start to get ugly.
Thanks again for joining in on this! I totally don't blame you on that stuff, it's a really irksome situation with tons of Windows games and I often dread having to try and find just the right hardware to get some of those working. Really hope better emulation/virtualization software continues to be developed for those.
I totally agree with Ross with his segment. Room space is a big concern for me, so I can't have a specific machine for each game era just hanging around. I hope someone can come up with a solution for Post-DOS era games that will run on modern hardware. I've about given up trying to configure a Virtual Machine. DOSBox is my savior. That and ZDoom! Love this video guys :) So sad I couldn't be a part of it!
Speaking of older titles running poorly on newer hardware.. I used to have loads of issues with games from Blizzard, mainly Diablo and Starcraft, around the Windows 7 era, all of those games, without some kind of modding or patching, would not run properly, or would have really strange graphical issues. But somehow, after windows 8/Windows 10, they seem to work now. Surprisingly, quite a few of my older titles tend to work better, which is strange because normally you'd think it's the complete opposite.
Thank you for having me on your show! I got up at 5 AM to watch this video, and it's awesome. Great to see how everyone tackles the issue differently :D
With nothing against anyone else, I still think your solution is the best. The floppy emulator is a sanity saver, too. I don't see enough people using those in retro builds.
Getting into real period correct hardware is more than half the fun for me. My first PC is long gone, but i still have all of my computers i've owned from different periods and they ALL work. And i still upgrade them from time to time, just for the lolz.
I love the Nostalgia Nerd's comment about MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 being the "pinnacle of civilization" -- I couldn't have put it any better, it's so profoundly accurate.
Pinnacle of civilization was right before Sept 11, 2001 imho. Late 90s so Windows 2000 Pro and 98 Second Edition. This would be the Voodoo3 3500 16MB, GeForce 256 32MB, TNT2 Ultra 32MB, Radeon 64MB ViVo, Rage 128 Pro 32MB, Voodoo5 5500 64MB, era.
How I chose. I picked a year: 2000. I started with a retail PC that anyone could buy back then. In my case, a Dell Dimension 4100. I maxed out the storage and memory that the manufacturer specified for this particular PC. Then I did what we did back then and upgraded certain components to the latest and greatest (at the time). In my case, a 3DFX Voodoo5 5500 AGP graphics card, and a Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 sound card. The best you could get from Dell was a 21" Dell branded Sony Trinitron CRT monitor, so that's what I found. Paired all this with a 2.1 speaker system from Altec Lansing that, again, Dell offered with this package. I couldn't be happier with the results. I think setting parameters can make an easier and more authentic build experience, if that's what you're going for.
This reminds me of when a teacher will have class presentations and everybody will come up and present and the teacher will try relating everything back to the lesson
This is an amazing video, I love the collaboration, gives the video a REAL community feel, thanks for putting it together, I even found a couple of tubers I was not subbed too which I now am, thanks again, loved it.
i love going back and watching your older videos. as someone with no space to store extra hardware DOSBOX/ emulation is an amazing way to enjoy old games
Latex, Water, or Oil based ? Geeze, there are so many fasinating paints to watch, and you haven't even scratched the surface of varnishes, stains, textured coatings, or rubberized surfaces !!! :-)
Nice try, 8-bit guy. I can see right through your comment. But yeah, dude's a pretty bad ass coder too. I like him like I like the Battle Kid guy in that regard. .... ... Just realized I never got around to playing Battle Kid II: Mountain of Torment. "Nice try Battle Kid Guy ... " let's keep it going...
Great ! i wish you luck in that ! Will you try to fin a good old CRT for it, or use a "modern" flat VGA ? ANd how will you solve the problem of data transfer between "modrn world" and the 286 ? ANd just for fun here's a video about me & my collection by professional TV people ) ua-cam.com/video/2iuOEpsy9Bs/v-deo.html
Oh man, is that LEGO Rock Raiders behind you!? Please cover that one some time! I found a jewel case copy in an office depot of all places about 8 years ago and love it!
I also own a copy and tried to run it on various machines (mid 00s notebook, late 00s laptop and others) but only my early 2000s Pentium could ever run it, with a whole bunch of configuration and compatibility issues
It's a good thing you're on the other side of the state, or I might be tempted to raid your collection to make copies. I played Rock Raiders when GameTap was still a bit thing, and have wanted a copy of my own ever since. Wish GoG sold it....and copies from other sources are out of my price range. :-/
I love how the opinions here from "The Dream Team of Retro PC Gaming" run the entire gamut from emulation to dedicated vintage hardware to something in between. I appreciate the fact that there isn't one "right" way to experience these games, but that everyone is able to find what works for them. It seems like a much more open and supportive community than the console side that says that one must use original hardware or face the shame of being labeled some kind of poseur or something. Kids these days....
To be fair, the 'modern' solutions to PC gaming still largely amount to using a PC to play PC games. Lots has changed over the years, but at the same time, to some extent, a PC is a PC. The experience of playing a DOS game on a modern PC using Dosbox certainly isn't identical to playing it on period correct hardware, but it's pretty close more often than not. Frequently, console games on non-original hardware means emulation. And that can be VERY far removed from what it was like to use the real hardware. Sometimes this is an improvement. (HD texture packs for n64 games), sometimes it very much isn't. (again, n64 emulation - accuracy is often atrociously bad.) It's not to say that it's unworkable, but it does seem to have bigger caveats. Also, more often than not, playing console games on non-original hardware is also a tacit approval of software piracy, which seriously muddies the waters. PC games on modern hardware meanwhile can easily be the original retail games from the era...
It's terrific that we have so many options available to us. There are certainly folks firmly in both camps (No Emulation, you must use pure Hardware vs Buying old hardware is dumb) but generally speaking most in the community seem to fall somewhere in the middle. (Own what you can, emulate what you can't) The bonus to both sides is... we're getting these things preserved. We're getting copies of software that could be long forgotten saved digitally, and also in their physical form. This is key because so many games and IPs have changed hands multiple times... to the point that people can't even figure out WHO owns it. A perfect example... "No One Lives Forever". This is not an entirely old game, it's from 2000. (Which as I look and see it's 18 years old makes me feel damn old now.) They can't even get to the point where it can be re-released due to what's gone on with it's licensing. kotaku.com/the-sad-story-behind-a-dead-pc-game-that-cant-come-back-1688358811
@SteelRodent strictly speaking, modern PC CPUs can run 16-bit software (8-bit never existed for the PC), just like in the 80s. It's part of the huge backward compatibility that x86-64 (the 64-bit version of the CPU architecture) preserves. You can't run 64-bit and 16-bit software at the same time (so no 64-bit operating system), but you can stay on a purely 16-bit mode or even a mix of 16-bit and 32-bit modes. Nothing was removed there. Beyond the CPU, compatibility layers are still provided for the old firmware (BIOS) and for several vital components (interrupt controller, timer, graphics modes...) of the PC platform. However, specific implementations can have problems, and other components are more problematic (PCIe, NVMe, SATA, USB, audio interfaces). So there'd undoubtedly be issues when trying to run legacy software, and all this is compatibility stuff that's been left there but isn't what users are expected to use most of the time. However I'd say modern PCs end up qualifying as PCs. On the other hand, all this is irrelevant concerning DOSBox: as it is intended to run on 64-bit operating systems (and also non-PC platforms), it has to recreate the whole platform. It's pure emulation, just like the one in console emulators.
Saw the whole "Ft 9 UA-camrs" and absolutely knew Phil's Computer Lab would be on here as he's the only regular YTer that uploads retro hardware related stuff similar in quality to your videos. Did NOT expect Ross (Accursed Farms) but very much not unhappy with him being in this too.
It pleases me to no end to see how much this channel has grown. I'm so happy to see familiar faces that I also enjoy watching. This collaboration was really awesome. Thank you to everybody who took their time and effort to answer these questions.
I was born in the late 80s and started computing in the early 90s. I still love pretty much everything about DOS and early Windows still. I've built two PC's for 90s gaming and such - one DOS 6.22 machine with a Pentium 166MHz CPU and 64mb RAM with a VESA 2mb videocard and Sound Blaster 2.0, this i use for ealy to mid 90s games. The other one runs Win 98 SP2 with a Pentium III 800mhz CPU and 512mb RAM with a Voodoo 3 16mb 3D-accelerator and Sound Blaster AWE64, i use this machine for late 90s and early 00s gaming and such. Mmm, just talking about this gets me going.
The main reason why I personally stay away from DOSBox as much as possible is because of the really off-putting stuttering/lag I get when it's accessing game data. It can't just be my computer because it's happened on every machine of mine to some extent...
You have to admit, you did take the easy way out with that choice. But that's the best thing about being an adventure game fan, everyone else can have their crises with their racing games/fancy shit for late 90s+ :P
I agree. I can’t afford a bunch of machines. It’s the same reason I stream music. Is it as good of quality as vinyl? Nope. But it takes up way less space.
Same here. I always say that's the beauty of PCs. With the right software and configuration, we can run almost anything from any decade, even programs from other computer standards and platforms. I could go dig out my Amiga 500 and diskettes to play Shadow of the Beast and Speedball 2... or I could just boot up WinUAE and play them on here in a fraction of the time. Yeah, I love that authentic experience but I'm not always in the mood for it if I just want to play the games. :)
lol. Considering officially I DO have Autism, that amused me. It's ridiculous what people attribute to Autism... Then when you try and explain the actual problems it causes, they look at you like you're making stuff up. Bleh.
Really enjoyed this. It was a treat to watch the varied perspectives of so many different creators in a single video. Especially since I only watch half of them. Thank you all for your input.
I think it's time to give a huge THANK YOU for doing this great video... I've been building tons of Retro Computers for a few years now and it is a big question, and this video is the best I could find about making the decision for a Retro Build! Thanks for the channel! With what i've learned these years and how you put it alltogether I think i'm closer to do a comprehensive build guide for everyone :)
Ahhhhh my days of the OLIVETTI M300-02 386... I miss my old friend :( But as Im sure you guys know... its all now down to Emulation. I wish one day I had the house with space to own some of my fave builds again
This is easily the best crossover internet media I have ever seen ever that does not rely on having the people in the same room. Clint, you made a crossover that not only transitions to everyone in a fantastic way, but also is not cringeworthy or too silly compared to the TGWTG stuff that a lot of other similar videos do. Even with Ross being Ross. :P
I flipping love your voice I usually only watch your Channel for Sims reviews but I still love your voice so I'm watching this just to listen to you talk
This was an absolutely FANTASTIC video. I'm someone who only knows about retro gaming hardware from LGR videos, and this was something on my bucket list; I've always wanted to build a retro gaming PC. Clint, thank you for giving me all these different perspectives and introducing me to so many other great UA-cam channels. You presented a fantastic diversity of options for all types of gamers to try out. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and thoughts on this diverse topic.
You, and me both I had a kitted out AMD SLOT A 1GHz Gateway(very rare), that was starting to cause problems about 12/13 years ago, and I was in a phase of if it does not work get it out of my house and get something that does lol! Stupid stupid me.
Blue Baby-- Me too. My SE rig had one of the early custom cases, back when they first started becoming a "thing". I miss Quake, original Doom, Duke and Mech Warrior. I ended up gifting it too a friend to get him started after I had moved on, so I don't regret letting it go- although much later I did miss it
I have a 1.13ghz pentium III laptop and thought it would be great for windows 98 but it’s proven to be a bit too late for that I heard the integrated sound is sb pro compatible but it’s a 2002 laptop that came with WinXP home edition
My parents sold our Win98 Packard Bell machine to buy a newer WinXP one. I didn't regret it at the time, as I discovered DOSBox quickly and it worked well for what I wanted to do, and I still have that WinXP machine around and I love it, but I've been looking for that old Packard Bell to see if it still exists and buy it back or something. I got the keyboard for that computer, but it doesn't work, I plan on restoring it as well.
Clint, this is such an informative video - thank you! I should be thanking you for all the other videos you've put out as well - I enjoy your channel quite a bit. I currently only have 80's/early 90's computers (IBM 5160, 5155 and a P70 386-121 that I should really be doing more with! Would love to see some retro games on its charming amber screen).
Feels like every time I search for anything retro on UA-cam, I stumble upon another one of your awesome videos. Thanks for making this and everything else you make, LGR. You're a champion.
Poor Metal Jesus positively got taken to the CLEANERS on the price of his Dell XPS. Recycling centers are generally one of the most disappointing places to try to buy retro hardware for this reason... They look at CURRENT ebay listings (rather than SOLD listings) which provides a ridiculously inflated perspective on value.
Pricing is indeed a sore issue for a lot of retro PC folks, although "too much" is subjective depending on your own needs and desires. I've certainly paid "too much" for some pretty standard PCs and components before, simply due to me not wanting to wait for a better deal. Pricing and best practices for sourcing components is definitely something I want to talk about more in the future!
Check local PC shops. My clientele drop off "old" machine weekly. Most end up in my storage :) If anyone ask me, which happens rarely, I generally give these machine away.
Sellers have also caught on to the i5 Dell cheap gaming "Dellasaurus" PC as well. The prices went WAY up on eBay! It went from getting one for $70-100 to getting one from $150-200 - both with a tiny bit of RAM (2GB and below), no video card, and no hard drive! Rip off artists!
MJR is for a casual audience, and he doesn't try to pretend it's any more than that. Not sure why people get so bent out shape about it. He seems like a good guy and doesn't deserve the hate.
Ross's take is what I've been following for the past two years and despite having been able to play every game I threw at myself (LaunchBox for Dosbox+console emulation, along with nGlide for glide based games and VMWare with 98SE and XP), I still live with the "paranoia" that one day the pcs I assembled to run these older games as a last resort will die within the year and I will be locked out of the games I had so much trouble getting to run ever since I started running Windows XP, or even cases where I went for windows 7 like with the Scarface game that only worked well on XP. I do have a huge worry because it's pretty clear virtualization is an important and soon to be inevitable step in the future of retro gaming for PC users, but as of today, the only software that could give us a glimmer of hope is VMWare for anything that is not Glide or DOS run, and they're much more keen on ignoring the users on their forums who want to run games on them, and honestly, I cannot blame them. If you check the card emulations we have, all of them are for defunct companies. You won't see an ATI, Matrox or early Nvidia card shown, because those wouldn't give up the cards most likely because nobody wants to risk asking them, and if you check VMware, you get their own version of a software GPU. I'd like to go on more detail on why the gaming side of virtualization is stuck in this rut, but I already went on long enough.
Pure quality content for LGR as usual. I've been slowly but surely watching nearly everything LGR has uploaded to youtube over the past year or so. I spend a lot of time working on a computer for a living and find it endlessly fascinating and comforting to watch these nostalgia channels while I work to re-encounter these relics from my youth. Personally I love to see the original hardware. I don't have the time or space to do it my self so it's great to watch other people do it and experience the nostalgia that way. For me it's not just about experiencing the software....it's about re living such a special time of my life where this stuff was so new and exciting to me. Although I do make good use of modern hardware for what I now do for a living, there was something so magical about a time when there were greater technological boundaries. We were experiencing the frontier of a new generation of technology and it felt genuinely optimistic and exciting at the time. I'm glad I was around to experience it and seeing all this old stuff again makes me happy. Thank you LGR, long may the nostalgia continue! :)
Thanks clint, and thanks to all the others like phil and 8bit, aa well as others i havent seen yet. Bravo to all of you for getting together in common good to make this happen.
Seems to me PhilsComputerLab has the best over all hardware set up out of everybody. Simple yet can play a wide variety of games and you get the best graphics and sounds from those games from his setup all on one system.
Ah, but there ARE compromises made. Most notably, changing the clock speed is not as simple as opening the BIOS menu and flipping a toggle like he demonstrates with the cache. It requires you to power the system down, disconnect it, open the case, and flip some DIP switches(since he chose wisely and isn't stuck with a board that uses jumper blocks to set the frequency and multiplier). You also can't get the best sound out of a lot of DOS games without a real FM synthesis chip. Though there are others you'd be a fool to hamstring them like that. I'm not actually convinced that sound can BE a "one size fits all" solution for DOS games. His system IS, however, my general approach. I got into the world of IBM-compatibles around the time of the Pentium's launch, so I jumped in at a point where people were coding on the assumption tomorrow's systems would be stupidly fast and my nostalgia conveniently misses most (but not all) of the "running too fast" issues. I've toyed with the idea of a Super 7 board with a SoundBlaster 16 AND AWE32 running alongside each other so I can pick and choose on the sound without tearing everything to bits. It winds up being more of a pain than it looks, unless you really love swapping boot disks.
@@CptJistuce Huh? Lots of motherboards from the socket7 and super socket 7 era allow you to set fsb and multiplier in the BIOS. There's also plentyof software tools like setfsb. There's also next to do difference between dip switches and jumpers. They both simply make the physical trace connection making a direct connection. Exact same thing apart from their physical form.
@@beezle1976 I'm not speaking of all boards as a general rule. I'm speaking of THIS board used in THIS build. And while electrically, switches and jumper blocks are the same, the former is more convenient, especially if you're going to change it frequently. Context: it matters.
Not long ago I had no idea that retro computing and gaming was even a thing, and now I follow many of those interviewed here. It's so cool that you all know each other! Keep on rockin'! 🙂👍
Great to see you reach out to so many other youtubers for this. Well worth the watching. I have several systems from 486 through Pentium Pro, Celeron and P4. While I love the old hardware the EASIEST method is to use a MAC with DOSBOX and SCUMM VM. You can emulate the Roland on it, and the configuration is backed up in TIME MACHINE for easily migrating with future hardware. I won't be dropping my retro hardware anytime soon but this will help those looking into it.
It is really painful. Getting Midtown Madness or SW Pod Racers to run at all on modern Windows is hell itself. Want 3D acceleration so you aren't playing in ugly Software Mode? You're delving into madness. I solved Pod Racers, but its really unstable to get started still...never got Midtown Madness to work correctly. My favorites are source ports though. Albion has a source port out there that will run on modern Windows and allows for high resolution modes!
I managed to pick up 3 (yes, count them - one, two, three) IBM PS/2 model 50 machines a little while back, but I'm worried the caps have gone bad after 30-odd years, so I haven't even booted them yet for fear of blowing them up! I do plan on replacing the power supply caps, but need to do a clear-out of my workspace so I've got enough room to pull them apart. They're 286 machines, which will be good for early DOS gaming. Unfortunately they didn't come with a CRT monitor, but I'm hoping to pick up an old Sony broadcast monitor that I can coax (if you'll pardon the pun) into displaying VGA natively. Apart from that, I've got a 486 machine built from parts, with CPUs I can swap out, depending on what I want to do, including an Intel 486 DX 33, AMD AM486 DX 40, Intel 486 DX2 66, and a Cyrix 5x86 100GP. It's a later-era PCI motherboard, so I can run either PCI or ISA graphics, but I just use a cheap PCI card based on the Cirrus Logic CL-GD6556 chip. Hard drive is currently a CF card, currently 1GB, but I can swap others out depending on my OS requirements. Soundcard is a Sound Blaster AWE32. I've also got on order some socket 7 era gear and other upgrades, including a PCI SATA card so I can play some crazy modern HDD/SSD upgrades, and a Roland MT-32 so I can get those awesome retro tunes. Relatively speaking, it's not that expensive a hobby, especially compared to things like high-performance sports cars or skiing. But it is time-consuming and requires a decent amount of space.
8 months late.. but I really hope you decided to try out these machines. Sure.. you risk popping some caps.. but the longer they sit the more likely they are to waste away. Even if they do pop, though, it's not too hard to replace them with some new solid state capacitors. Oh, also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Cyrix 5x86. I'm currently using an AMD 5x86 as a substitute for the Cyrix (my dream 486).. ..but it'll do. ;)
Hi Clint, This is a comprehensive video about choosing the right retro pc game solution. You've done a really great job by asking others to share their views and solutions. I think too that what really matters is what 'you' want to do (for example you want to play early 90's DOS games and then look at what best matches that desire, for example configure a 486 pc). I would like to add some of my own experiences; - Old laptop computers, such as shown by The 8-bit Guy, are in my view not really usuable for retro pc gaming. This has to do with bad (quality) screens, leaking batteries, bad proprietary power supplies, they can't be easily upgraded / expanded (without a docking station), they are hard to repair, it's not easy to find parts or expansions and the overall fragility and condition of old laptops can be a problem. You can be lucky and find a good one, but they are very scarce. - Avoid IBM PS/2 pc's unless you like defective disk drives and proprietary hard to find expensive hardware. - Somehow 486 AT compatible pc's seem to be quite popular. I think that a well thought-out configured 486 system is pretty great for 1990-1995 DOS gaming. It does take a lot of time and research though to configure a properly running pc for those games (if you are new in this hobby). The main drawback of a 486 pc is that it's really only good for that period of (primitive) games. Early 3D gaming is pretty much out of the question, you really want a Pentium class pc with 3D graphics card for that. That having said, Phil's suggestion of the AMD K6-III+ (and a couple other AMD K6 chips that can be 'tuned') system is the better alternative, because it covers a slightly wider period of games (bonus: you have more options for expansion cards and finding a decent ATX case is a LOT easier (but not all SS7 boards are ATX..)). - For more recent retro pc games, let's say 2000-2007ish, I would recommend to look further than the Pentium 4 / Windows XP combination. The Pentium 4, especially the faster versions, produce a lot of heat (i.e. needs a really good cooler) and the 478 socket is quite fragile. Motherboard components of consumer versions of that period are also not always so great. It's better to look for workstation grade hardware. The good thing is that components for these newer systems are much more affordable. Besides Windows XP is best replaced with Windows 2000 SP4 and/or Windows Vista SP2. The first doesn't require activation and the latter can still be activated. XP will end up in an activation loop. - It's a great idea to replace old hard disks with CF, SD, or SSD. Old hard drives can be noisy and unreliable. - Authentic game floppy disks (5.25'') and diskettes (3.5'') are usually still readable after many years, if stored properly and carefully used. That's why it's still a good idea to add a (floppy) disk drive to a classic pc if you choose that option. - CRT monitors may be period correct, but CRT's wear out over time and can't be replaced because nobody sells them anymore! - And yes, eventually all classic pc hardware will fail. 'Recapping' is not enough to keep your system working for the long run and is certainly not a repair. So far however my Apple II still works..
I would advice for windows 98 gaming: A slot1 Pentium2 or early Pentium 3 combined with a 3DFX, Matrox or nvidia video card, 128/256mb sdram. And you can play most titles! I have several builds on my channnel :)
It's interesting that you mentioned running early Windows games using wine! It was something I hadn't really tried until about a year ago when I wanted to play an old Goosebumps game from my childhood that was notoriously impossible to get running on my windows machines. Sure enough, after a couple hours of playing with different configs I not only got it to run in wine perfectly, but I got it to run in a window where it previously forced fullscreen, which made it a lot easier to set up in OBS so I could stream it to my friends. I guess that's one of the benefits of using software that's been trying to emulate Windows since 98.
DGvoodoo 2 really needs a proper mention. It has great support for voodoo games, but also direct X games up to Direct X 8.1, I believe. It also allows for custom resolutions and forced anti aliasing so you can see an old 3D game that never came out with those features and has no other patch with this stuff. It's pretty amazing when it works. The executable has to be 32-bit though, it seems. I can't find any way around this.
damn, the old Voodoo 3000 teamed up with the Diamond sound card is what my dad did when we really got into gaming on pc. He was on forsaken all night in the dial up death matches. I was hooked on theif gold.
I'm building my Retro Gaming PC from a HP Vectra VL400, using spare parts from the shop I work (the PC was discarted by a customer as well). I came in this video searching for some tips, and I got a lot of information. But for me, the peak point was when Brutalmoose presented his PC model just like mine! HELL YEAH!
omfg watching your channel brings me back to my childhood thank you so much God i miss the days of having two voodoo 2's and playing quake 2, duke nukem, and doom.... I miss making maps for those games and quake 3, I miss making skins and stuff. My first computer ever was a cheap COMPAQ that some sales men tricked my dad into paying MORE for the FLOOR DEMO ONE because it was the last one left! it had 48 megs of ram... and back then ram cost over $2 per meg!! and the cpu was a 266... but when I got a voodoo 3, I was able to play games that said they needed 64 megs of ram and a better cpu, my computer with the voodoo 3 ran those games perfectly, my friends with better comps but worse ghx cards couldnt believe it... lol Now i barely get enjoyment from my GTX 1070 triple monitor set up that runs everything at max... just doesnt have the same magic as old school gaming did tracked down the model number of my first comp, Compaq Presario 4640
Thank-you for making me feel old :-) Nostalgic about when RAM was $2 per meg? Wow, that still sounds cheap to me. My 1st 16KB upgrade cost me $400 :-) Heck, 15 years later and 2x8MB EDO SIMMS cost me $750 ($375 a piece, and I was buying wholesale at the time, it was about $550 per 8Meg retail). As for "the magic", well, that's down to usage. There's absolutely nothing stopping you doing the same things you said you used to enjoy (modding, skinning, etc other games). A lot of nostalgia comes from the things a person enjoyed *doing*, but with time that "doing" often turns into "thinking about" . It's no wonder people wax lyrical about "the good old days",... they actually did stuff back then, not just waxing lyrical :-)
Thank you, Clint. For exploring this topic, and providing a myriad of opinions from people who actually use retro gaming in their content creation. It was genuinely illuminating. That so many people were willing to collaborate is also a testament to how you've helped establish this genre of content on UA-cam, and made connections with the other creators. Also, I gotta say... Your reactions to BrutalMoose/Ian's unscripted quirks were definitely comedy gold. Ha. :) Well done, sir.
I absolutely love when you guys do these kinds of collabs, I am subscribed to...the majority of the people in this video. You lot are the kind of people I would love to chill with, and just gush about old DOS games we liked, and talk about just everything retro PC gaming. I am pretty much alone in all of my 'circles' when it comes to this topic. Watching your content (Everybody in the video, as well) just brings a huge smile to my face everytime.
I really want to get a PC to run Windows XP or Vista on. I have a bunch of games I played all the time as a kid that aren't supported on newer systems and compatibility mode doesn't usually work well for me. I also might eventually want to get something that can run even older games.
SimCity 4, Age of Mythology, and Zoo Tycoon 2 are the ones I've had the most trouble getting to work. I've tried them on my old laptop with Windows 7. I remember it did work at one point, but then there was an update that made it so I couldn't anymore. For a while I was able to get them to work by turning off some security feature, but then I started having problems with that, too. I was only able to get AoM to work one time when I didn't have time to play it, I was just trying to make it work. After that it wouldn't run again. SimCity 4 and Zoo Tycoon 2 worked a few times before they stopped running as well.
AluminumDragon pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Age_of_Mythology Keep that site handy, it'll help with a lot of these issues. Dungeon Siege should work. I played it recently but all online modes in those games are gone due to GameSpy taking a dive.
Fascinating video! Love learning more about the computers I used growing up! What I loved even more is you introducing me to 6 more excellent youtubers! Thank You!
A good Pentium III notebook is the only think I need. I'm watching all your videos and I can't believe all the space you've got there to place old machines that I could only dream about!. Great idea of a video with all the guests (I didn't know most of them)
Accursed Farms did mention a great point. Games being run in future hardware. Right now its not that great. it can be troublesome. I'd like if developers or publishers would dedicate some time to at least make it run easier...easier than being said I know but still, it would be great. I know some do but doing a standard in that area would be appreciated.
My question: Next to popular Operating Systems... What do you like to use as a GUI (on MS-DOS)? I'm asking this because on my Dosmachine I have running a user friendly menu called Quickmenu III (1993). It's filled up with custom made icons and over 500 games. I'd like to make a video on this anytime soon and I'd like to share it. The complete package runs on Dosbox aswel! Although it's filled with non-shareware games so I don't want to share this illigally, that's why I haven't (yet). I'm still figuring out a way to do so maybe one day. If you're interested in this menu, let me know. If there's any animo for it I might make a video on it real soon! Bart.
Norton Commander is awesome too. I wanted to make something foolproof. I don't like leaving my machine alone with strangers that might remember commands like 'format C:', just to annoy me (you never know). You can't leave or alter my menu without a password. This way the menu can be used in a museum or somesort.
lol. I know what you mean. Granted, I've seen him dozens of times before, so the surprise has worn off, but the first time... Yeah. That was NOT what I expected. XD
I think the great thing about this video is that it highlights the fact that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat. Real hardware, emulation.. everything has their pluses and minuses, but the fact that you can go multiple ways while being completely happy is terrific.
Easily one of my favorite channels on UA-cam. No else takes me back to the past like LGR. I kind of regret avoiding so many great DOS RPG's that my brother and dad used to play. I think I was more interesting in watching games played back then, more than actually playing them. Then again... that wouldn't be any different then now as I'm always on YT watching people play games lol
I'm glad you mentioned Wine in your video because not many people recognise its usefulness for running old games. I run a fairly average machine with an AMD dual core processor (2.3 GHz), 4GB RAM and an HD5450 graphics card with Linux Mint 17.2 and, with the help of PlayOnLinux, I'm able to run a lot of the games you discuss in your videos (including the retail disc version of POD and Need for Speed 2: Special Edition) and often the ones that don't run pose the same problems on Windows. And, if you throw in DOSBox, GOG and Steam, Linux isn't too bad a place to be for retro PC games. I have an old Windows 98 rig (AMD single core (1.6 GHz), 256MB RAM and Nvidia MX-440 graphics card) and a few old XP laptops that come in handy for the odd game but I'm able to run most of the games I want to play on the Linux desktop and, half the time, it's actually easier to get the games running on Linux than on the Windows hardware. Really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
Great video! I really like how you reached out to other retro game playing UA-camrs! Lots of fun and insight. I just use wine, dosbox with the dbgl front end, scummVM, on rare occasions, but hardly ever VirtualBox all under Linux.
Awesome video, Clint! I actually have two systems in various states of assembly, and your videos really help in issues I'm having. I remember back in college playing 'Doom' over serial cable with everyone's PC moved into one dorm room and and almost wish you and all the guest UA-camrs you had on here could do something similar. =)
My first rig was a 486DX2@66Mhz from Cyrix, and I loved it. Out of all setups though, I think Phil's is the most clever with the cache manipulation, plus the Voodoo card for extra crispy graphics.
Very nice video, I just want to add a maybe less known thing that no one mentioned, which is nGlide. NGlide is a 3dfx Glide emulator for newer videocards, with it you can play most Windows 98 3dfx games on a more modern PC, by just installing a simple driver, for example I use it on my Pentium 4 with an nVidia GeForce card, this allows older games that won't even start because you don't have a 3dfx card to run flawlessly, and at max settings on top of that. Pair that with DosBox and you can have a machine that can run games from the early Dos days up until the early 2000s with little to no issues. My biggest problem was actually to run POD, but I found a patch to run it on the internet, so with a little research you can run pretty much anything.
nGlide is very well known. I suspect anyone who is aware of Glide also knows nGlide. The problem with nGlide though is that it's getting more and more broken with every dx release. It's a wrapper to d3d, but as d3d changes and evolves (and breaks some software compatibility in the process), the nGlide wrapper also breaks slowly but surely. Personally I find the 3dfx cards way over-rated anyway. Up unto voodoo2/banshee they offered something interesting. From then on end all they offered was evidence of how crazy far they fell behind in such a short space of time. Even glide, it's saving grace, was hideously outclassed by d3d by this point. Poor performance, horrible image quality, 16bit restrictions, no proper d3d support, etc., etc.... yet people still get warm and fuzzy about them. I can only put it down to nostalgia beyond v1 and v2.
It may be very well known, but nobody even mentioned it. Anyway, yes it is better in an old PC, which is the point of the video, that's why I'm using it in a Pentium 4 with windows XP, old Direct X it's the only thing you need in a retro PC. As I said with a P4 and nglide you can play nearly any glide windows 95-98 game. I think the one I'm using has DX9 at the moment
nglide never works for me, not even in my pentium 4 with an nvidia geforce ti 4200, it made need for speed work... kinda, very laggy... I don't wanna play it like that.
Not bad at all! Before I got my retro rig, I often used to plug a 19" crt to my main machine and play on DosBox with it for a bit more authenticity. The old games look a lot crisper on it than on a modern LCD/LED monitor.
Nice video. It really starts with the right question: "what do you want to run?" As a general rule of thumb it can be said tht the older the hardware ist the more hassle it will be to handle. (like harddrive cable that have no convenient marker which way round to plug them in and much nastier stuff. Also it is a matter of supply and demand, some old stuff is harder and harder to get.. For really old stuff, like pre VESA graphics games I would probably not bother and just emulate them. There are a few things that I would not want to forgo for an old machine: - ATX standard mainboard (the older non standard one need specific cases, power supplies, have almost no connectors so you need a ton of ISA or PCI based conroller cards etc etc. - PS/2 mouse and keyboard connectors. Finding old keyboards and old mouses gets more difficult by the year, and I really have no idea if tere ever was a serial optical mouse. And ball-mouses, let's be honest - were shit.
12:21 Hellbender FTW!! Also has anyone heard of nGlide? nGlide is a 3Dfx Voodoo Glide wrapper. It allows you to play games designed for 3Dfx Glide API without the need for having 3Dfx Voodoo graphics card. All three API versions are supported, Glide 2.1 (glide.dll), Glide 2.4 (glide2x.dll) and Glide 3.0 (glide3x.dll). nGlide translates all Glide calls to Direct3D. Glide wrapper also supports high resolution modes. www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide
Yes you're right but what is weird is that the graphics , animations and even the explosions are virtually identical to Hellbender, although the HUD is somewhat different. They were made with the same game engine: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Velocity_(video_game)
+Jack Kraken Ohhhh yeah. Gameplay is super-repetitive on all three, but at least the bosses, missions and weapons are different. You can also make these games go by faster by forgoing exploration and just focussing on mission objectives. :B
Considering this is the most-asked question I receive, I hope this video helps those of you that have been requesting the assistance!
Also, _huge thanks_ to the other UA-camrs who added their voice to this episode: Nostalgia Nerd, Metal Jesus Rocks, Pixelmusement, PushingUpRoses, Brutalmoose, RetroManCave, Phil's Computer Lab, The 8-Bit Guy, and Accursed Farms! They brought up lots of stuff I didn't think of, so I am grateful :)
Now, I love about all your content to pieces ;) Except the Sims-thingies... But that's just me xD
Anyway, this is exceptionally fantastic video here! We got many different solutions and a reasoning for each and everyone of them!
Definitely one of the best videos you have ever made. More old PC-stuff! I'm always in for it!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE doa BeBox machine and BeOS, im really interested on them
+Tong Zou Not sure but I'd guess over a hundred at this point. Takes up a lot of space:
ua-cam.com/video/y29silThj1M/v-deo.html
Excellent job to everyone who contributed. Perfect way to tackle this subject. I imagine videos like this are not easy to create. Looking forward to seeing more.
I'll throw in the suggestion that if you're someone who is setting up a retro PC for this kind of thing but you don't want to fart around with a huge heavy CRT monitor, there are still flatscreen VGA LCD monitors out there from the early-2000s that weigh far less, take up less space, and you still get the proper 4:3 screen ratio. I have an old VGA Dell LCD monitor from the time I keep on hand for my freelance repair work when someone brings me an older PC.
Here's my analysis of the responses:
The simple solution: use emulation
The practical solution: use a tricked-out 486 or Windows 98-era machine
The Clint solution: own dozens of different computers to cover every possible hardware configuration
👍
Gotta collect ‘em all!
I guess it just depends on how much you love old computers.
Clint's solution is very tempting.
Haha! Yeah LGR makes me want to buy old computers! :O
Thanks so much for having me be a part of this EPIC video. You ROCK dude! \m/
You bet man, I'm glad you finally have a Win98 rig!
. \°o°/
|
/ \
@@LGR
Reasons not to buy a retro PC.
What needs to happen is an army of programmers making old sht work on modern machines.
@@remasteredretropcgames3312 AI
For the even lazier:
7:40 - Nostalgia Nerd
9:40 - Metal Jesus Rocks
12:12 - Pixelmusement (ADG)
14:18 - Pushing Up Roses
16:30 - Brutal Moose
19:05 - Retro Man Cave
21:35 - Phil's Computer Lab
23:42 - The 8-Bit Guy
26:12 - Accursed Farms
I love how the age of each UA-camr kinda matches the era of the machine they use =)
Why wouldn’t it?
Yeah Clint is a beige square kind of guy. He also kinda looks like one too
Sick burn/compliment
Hes not that old?
MJR is a Commodore 64 guy, everyone knows that...
Me: What retro PC should I get?
LGR: Get everything you can get.
Hey, thanks for having me on the show!
To add a bit to what you said, I'm probably a little too forward looking and I just assume everything is going to fail before it does, so I always want a future proof method of playing games. Gaming isn't really about nostalgia for me, there are just plenty of games I take years, if not decades to get around to playing and the thought of having a small window where I can play one always rubs me the wrong way.
The reason I was showing off those problems was because I do think they are legitimate failings of trying to run games virtualized on modern systems (particularly with AA). As for WINE, I do plan to look into that more in the future, but from what I've seen, that's more like an additional dice toss as to whether something will run or not.
I feel like DOS games we more or less have nailed down in that respect, games from this century are where it can start to get ugly.
Thanks again for joining in on this! I totally don't blame you on that stuff, it's a really irksome situation with tons of Windows games and I often dread having to try and find just the right hardware to get some of those working. Really hope better emulation/virtualization software continues to be developed for those.
I totally agree with Ross with his segment. Room space is a big concern for me, so I can't have a specific machine for each game era just hanging around. I hope someone can come up with a solution for Post-DOS era games that will run on modern hardware. I've about given up trying to configure a Virtual Machine. DOSBox is my savior. That and ZDoom! Love this video guys :) So sad I couldn't be a part of it!
Speaking of older titles running poorly on newer hardware.. I used to have loads of issues with games from Blizzard, mainly Diablo and Starcraft, around the Windows 7 era, all of those games, without some kind of modding or patching, would not run properly, or would have really strange graphical issues. But somehow, after windows 8/Windows 10, they seem to work now. Surprisingly, quite a few of my older titles tend to work better, which is strange because normally you'd think it's the complete opposite.
Accursed Farms you are awesome dude. Love your videos.
I totally read this in Gordon's voice
I bet you get that a lot.
Thank you for having me on your show! I got up at 5 AM to watch this video, and it's awesome. Great to see how everyone tackles the issue differently :D
It was awesome to see all my "mentors" in one single video! I can rest now! ;) Cheers, Phil!
With nothing against anyone else, I still think your solution is the best. The floppy emulator is a sanity saver, too. I don't see enough people using those in retro builds.
The only one anyone should really listen to regarding this topic ;)
Sure thing, it was great to have you on! Those setups you have are excellent.
Getting into real period correct hardware is more than half the fun for me. My first PC is long gone, but i still have all of my computers i've owned from different periods and they ALL work. And i still upgrade them from time to time, just for the lolz.
I love the Nostalgia Nerd's comment about MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 being the "pinnacle of civilization" -- I couldn't have put it any better, it's so profoundly accurate.
Really? Why, though?
@SteelRodent Yeah but Solitaire and Minesweeper dude!
Pinnacle of civilization was right before Sept 11, 2001 imho. Late 90s so Windows 2000 Pro and 98 Second Edition. This would be the Voodoo3 3500 16MB, GeForce 256 32MB, TNT2 Ultra 32MB, Radeon 64MB ViVo, Rage 128 Pro 32MB, Voodoo5 5500 64MB, era.
How I chose. I picked a year: 2000. I started with a retail PC that anyone could buy back then. In my case, a Dell Dimension 4100. I maxed out the storage and memory that the manufacturer specified for this particular PC. Then I did what we did back then and upgraded certain components to the latest and greatest (at the time). In my case, a 3DFX Voodoo5 5500 AGP graphics card, and a Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 sound card. The best you could get from Dell was a 21" Dell branded Sony Trinitron CRT monitor, so that's what I found. Paired all this with a 2.1 speaker system from Altec Lansing that, again, Dell offered with this package. I couldn't be happier with the results. I think setting parameters can make an easier and more authentic build experience, if that's what you're going for.
This reminds me of when a teacher will have class presentations and everybody will come up and present and the teacher will try relating everything back to the lesson
Ha! Yeah that's pretty much the idea :P
But it something I care about!
School nostalgia blast.
This is an amazing video, I love the collaboration, gives the video a REAL community feel, thanks for putting it together, I even found a couple of tubers I was not subbed too which I now am, thanks again, loved it.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed!
I like how every single LGR video, the intro, he stares at the camera blankly to nowhere until the intros over. Love it lol
i love going back and watching your older videos. as someone with no space to store extra hardware DOSBOX/ emulation is an amazing way to enjoy old games
The 8bit guy's one of those people who could make a video about watching paint dry and make it absolutely fascinating to watch.
Yeah lol I love his videos , somehow makes it interesting.
Watermelon ahahaha that was awesome! He chills me no matter what he's doing
LGR makes 30-year-old dried paint videos fascinating to watch.
Latex, Water, or Oil based ?
Geeze, there are so many fasinating paints to watch, and you haven't even scratched the surface of varnishes, stains, textured coatings, or rubberized surfaces !!!
:-)
Nice try, 8-bit guy. I can see right through your comment.
But yeah, dude's a pretty bad ass coder too. I like him like I like the Battle Kid guy in that regard. .... ... Just realized I never got around to playing Battle Kid II: Mountain of Torment.
"Nice try Battle Kid Guy ... " let's keep it going...
My dad bought me a 286 when I was 14. been gaming ever since then. When GOG released the gold box games I was so happy.
yeah! someone who remembers what a 286 was! :D
I have 6 286 machines in my collection - I like them - from the IBM 5170 with 6mhz to fast 20mhz ones ) Gold Box games are great !
Great ! i wish you luck in that ! Will you try to fin a good old CRT for it, or use a "modern" flat VGA ? ANd how will you solve the problem of data transfer between "modrn world" and the 286 ? ANd just for fun here's a video about me & my collection by professional TV people ) ua-cam.com/video/2iuOEpsy9Bs/v-deo.html
Oh man, is that LEGO Rock Raiders behind you!? Please cover that one some time! I found a jewel case copy in an office depot of all places about 8 years ago and love it!
It's on my to-do list!
I also own a copy and tried to run it on various machines (mid 00s notebook, late 00s laptop and others) but only my early 2000s Pentium could ever run it, with a whole bunch of configuration and compatibility issues
thats crazy, I got mine to work on windows 7, tho I prefer running it on my winxp machine lol
It's a good thing you're on the other side of the state, or I might be tempted to raid your collection to make copies. I played Rock Raiders when GameTap was still a bit thing, and have wanted a copy of my own ever since. Wish GoG sold it....and copies from other sources are out of my price range. :-/
Lazy Game Reviews yes!:3 Thank you!:3
I love how the opinions here from "The Dream Team of Retro PC Gaming" run the entire gamut from emulation to dedicated vintage hardware to something in between. I appreciate the fact that there isn't one "right" way to experience these games, but that everyone is able to find what works for them. It seems like a much more open and supportive community than the console side that says that one must use original hardware or face the shame of being labeled some kind of poseur or something. Kids these days....
To be fair, the 'modern' solutions to PC gaming still largely amount to using a PC to play PC games.
Lots has changed over the years, but at the same time, to some extent, a PC is a PC.
The experience of playing a DOS game on a modern PC using Dosbox certainly isn't identical to playing it on period correct hardware, but it's pretty close more often than not.
Frequently, console games on non-original hardware means emulation. And that can be VERY far removed from what it was like to use the real hardware.
Sometimes this is an improvement. (HD texture packs for n64 games), sometimes it very much isn't. (again, n64 emulation - accuracy is often atrociously bad.)
It's not to say that it's unworkable, but it does seem to have bigger caveats.
Also, more often than not, playing console games on non-original hardware is also a tacit approval of software piracy, which seriously muddies the waters.
PC games on modern hardware meanwhile can easily be the original retail games from the era...
It's terrific that we have so many options available to us. There are certainly folks firmly in both camps (No Emulation, you must use pure Hardware vs Buying old hardware is dumb) but generally speaking most in the community seem to fall somewhere in the middle. (Own what you can, emulate what you can't)
The bonus to both sides is... we're getting these things preserved. We're getting copies of software that could be long forgotten saved digitally, and also in their physical form.
This is key because so many games and IPs have changed hands multiple times... to the point that people can't even figure out WHO owns it.
A perfect example... "No One Lives Forever". This is not an entirely old game, it's from 2000. (Which as I look and see it's 18 years old makes me feel damn old now.) They can't even get to the point where it can be re-released due to what's gone on with it's licensing. kotaku.com/the-sad-story-behind-a-dead-pc-game-that-cant-come-back-1688358811
Good
@@KuraIthys I mean, console games can easily be ripped from original console discs too, at least once they stopped using proprietary cartridges.
@SteelRodent strictly speaking, modern PC CPUs can run 16-bit software (8-bit never existed for the PC), just like in the 80s. It's part of the huge backward compatibility that x86-64 (the 64-bit version of the CPU architecture) preserves. You can't run 64-bit and 16-bit software at the same time (so no 64-bit operating system), but you can stay on a purely 16-bit mode or even a mix of 16-bit and 32-bit modes. Nothing was removed there.
Beyond the CPU, compatibility layers are still provided for the old firmware (BIOS) and for several vital components (interrupt controller, timer, graphics modes...) of the PC platform. However, specific implementations can have problems, and other components are more problematic (PCIe, NVMe, SATA, USB, audio interfaces). So there'd undoubtedly be issues when trying to run legacy software, and all this is compatibility stuff that's been left there but isn't what users are expected to use most of the time. However I'd say modern PCs end up qualifying as PCs.
On the other hand, all this is irrelevant concerning DOSBox: as it is intended to run on 64-bit operating systems (and also non-PC platforms), it has to recreate the whole platform. It's pure emulation, just like the one in console emulators.
My method is being old and not throwing anything away 😅
It’s only valid if you own your house. Moving turns impossible if you are in my business you need to left things behind to move forward
ahh yes, the boomer perk
@P0W3RGL0V3 - It’s a shame that only players who started in the All is Fair In War update could get it.
Saw the whole "Ft 9 UA-camrs" and absolutely knew Phil's Computer Lab would be on here as he's the only regular YTer that uploads retro hardware related stuff similar in quality to your videos.
Did NOT expect Ross (Accursed Farms) but very much not unhappy with him being in this too.
Quality youtubers....
Phil's pc is the most beautiful machine I've ever seen. It's exactly what I'd build if I could afford a retro box.
It pleases me to no end to see how much this channel has grown. I'm so happy to see familiar faces that I also enjoy watching. This collaboration was really awesome. Thank you to everybody who took their time and effort to answer these questions.
I was born in the late 80s and started computing in the early 90s. I still love pretty much everything about DOS and early Windows still. I've built two PC's for 90s gaming and such - one DOS 6.22 machine with a Pentium 166MHz CPU and 64mb RAM with a VESA 2mb videocard and Sound Blaster 2.0, this i use for ealy to mid 90s games. The other one runs Win 98 SP2 with a Pentium III 800mhz CPU and 512mb RAM with a Voodoo 3 16mb 3D-accelerator and Sound Blaster AWE64, i use this machine for late 90s and early 00s gaming and such. Mmm, just talking about this gets me going.
DOSBox (and ScummVM) 4 evah.
The main reason why I personally stay away from DOSBox as much as possible is because of the really off-putting stuttering/lag I get when it's accessing game data. It can't just be my computer because it's happened on every machine of mine to some extent...
You have to admit, you did take the easy way out with that choice. But that's the best thing about being an adventure game fan, everyone else can have their crises with their racing games/fancy shit for late 90s+ :P
I agree. I can’t afford a bunch of machines. It’s the same reason I stream music. Is it as good of quality as vinyl? Nope. But it takes up way less space.
Same here. I always say that's the beauty of PCs. With the right software and configuration, we can run almost anything from any decade, even programs from other computer standards and platforms.
I could go dig out my Amiga 500 and diskettes to play Shadow of the Beast and Speedball 2... or I could just boot up WinUAE and play them on here in a fraction of the time. Yeah, I love that authentic experience but I'm not always in the mood for it if I just want to play the games. :)
Emulators are lovely, but imperfect at best...
A case of 'pick your poison', I suppose...
Annnd my next 30 minutes just got a lot better.
Like half my sub box in one video.
I just run old games in my memories, the games always run better then hardware or emulation.
way better graphics in my mind, too!
I sadly found this to be so so true when I got a copy of need for speed 2 almost 20 years after.
I looked so much better on my memory.
The funny thing about this is the fact that I use to play games in my mind as a kid while everyone else thinks I have autism for that reason \['~']/
lol. Considering officially I DO have Autism, that amused me. It's ridiculous what people attribute to Autism... Then when you try and explain the actual problems it causes, they look at you like you're making stuff up.
Bleh.
@Realunmaker: I agree, but part of it is that you're playing the same game now on a 24 inch LCD monitor (I guess) instead of a 17 inch CRT.
Really enjoyed this. It was a treat to watch the varied perspectives of so many different creators in a single video. Especially since I only watch half of them. Thank you all for your input.
I think it's time to give a huge THANK YOU for doing this great video... I've been building tons of Retro Computers for a few years now and it is a big question, and this video is the best I could find about making the decision for a Retro Build! Thanks for the channel! With what i've learned these years and how you put it alltogether I think i'm closer to do a comprehensive build guide for everyone :)
Ahhhhh my days of the OLIVETTI M300-02 386... I miss my old friend :( But as Im sure you guys know... its all now down to Emulation.
I wish one day I had the house with space to own some of my fave builds again
Emutation*
This is easily the best crossover internet media I have ever seen ever that does not rely on having the people in the same room. Clint, you made a crossover that not only transitions to everyone in a fantastic way, but also is not cringeworthy or too silly compared to the TGWTG stuff that a lot of other similar videos do. Even with Ross being Ross. :P
I flipping love your voice I usually only watch your Channel for Sims reviews but I still love your voice so I'm watching this just to listen to you talk
i thought i was the only one! haha
Get em haha
Clint really does have a great voice. He’d be a great narrator for documentaries and whatnot.
Same! I actually have a major headache today and I just play Clint's videos, listen to his soothing voice with eyes closed. It helps!
Clint made ASMR before it was cool.
I wish I had a friend like you. THE GAMES ,THE TECHNOLOGY, THE THRIFTING!
This was an absolutely FANTASTIC video. I'm someone who only knows about retro gaming hardware from LGR videos, and this was something on my bucket list; I've always wanted to build a retro gaming PC. Clint, thank you for giving me all these different perspectives and introducing me to so many other great UA-cam channels. You presented a fantastic diversity of options for all types of gamers to try out.
Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and thoughts on this diverse topic.
Every single LGR video i regret giving away my win98 pc
You, and me both I had a kitted out AMD SLOT A 1GHz Gateway(very rare), that was starting to cause problems about 12/13 years ago, and I was in a phase of if it does not work get it out of my house and get something that does lol! Stupid stupid me.
Blue Baby-- Me too. My SE rig had one of the early custom cases, back when they first started becoming a "thing". I miss Quake, original Doom, Duke and Mech Warrior. I ended up gifting it too a friend to get him started after I had moved on, so I don't regret letting it go- although much later I did miss it
I don't even know what happen to mine, I'm thinking someone threw it out, because it being "OLD".
I have a 1.13ghz pentium III laptop and thought it would be great for windows 98 but it’s proven to be a bit too late for that I heard the integrated sound is sb pro compatible but it’s a 2002 laptop that came with WinXP home edition
My parents sold our Win98 Packard Bell machine to buy a newer WinXP one. I didn't regret it at the time, as I discovered DOSBox quickly and it worked well for what I wanted to do, and I still have that WinXP machine around and I love it, but I've been looking for that old Packard Bell to see if it still exists and buy it back or something. I got the keyboard for that computer, but it doesn't work, I plan on restoring it as well.
I am all about that Windows 98 fam.
But proto
BUUUUUUUUT PROOOOOOOTOOOOOO
Cool same or 95 lol
Clint, this is such an informative video - thank you! I should be thanking you for all the other videos you've put out as well - I enjoy your channel quite a bit. I currently only have 80's/early 90's computers (IBM 5160, 5155 and a P70 386-121 that I should really be doing more with! Would love to see some retro games on its charming amber screen).
Feels like every time I search for anything retro on UA-cam, I stumble upon another one of your awesome videos. Thanks for making this and everything else you make, LGR. You're a champion.
Thanks for the UA-camr spotlight Clint, I always find it hard to find decent content to watch and this video added a huge backlog to get through.
This is great. I love all this love for these machines that were once commonplace, it's as if you are all curators in a living UA-cam museum. 👍
Poor Metal Jesus positively got taken to the CLEANERS on the price of his Dell XPS. Recycling centers are generally one of the most disappointing places to try to buy retro hardware for this reason... They look at CURRENT ebay listings (rather than SOLD listings) which provides a ridiculously inflated perspective on value.
Pricing is indeed a sore issue for a lot of retro PC folks, although "too much" is subjective depending on your own needs and desires. I've certainly paid "too much" for some pretty standard PCs and components before, simply due to me not wanting to wait for a better deal. Pricing and best practices for sourcing components is definitely something I want to talk about more in the future!
Check local PC shops. My clientele drop off "old" machine weekly. Most end up in my storage :) If anyone ask me, which happens rarely, I generally give these machine away.
Bingo !!
Sellers have also caught on to the i5 Dell cheap gaming "Dellasaurus" PC as well. The prices went WAY up on eBay! It went from getting one for $70-100 to getting one from $150-200 - both with a tiny bit of RAM (2GB and below), no video card, and no hard drive! Rip off artists!
MJR is for a casual audience, and he doesn't try to pretend it's any more than that. Not sure why people get so bent out shape about it. He seems like a good guy and doesn't deserve the hate.
Ross's take is what I've been following for the past two years and despite having been able to play every game I threw at myself (LaunchBox for Dosbox+console emulation, along with nGlide for glide based games and VMWare with 98SE and XP), I still live with the "paranoia" that one day the pcs I assembled to run these older games as a last resort will die within the year and I will be locked out of the games I had so much trouble getting to run ever since I started running Windows XP, or even cases where I went for windows 7 like with the Scarface game that only worked well on XP.
I do have a huge worry because it's pretty clear virtualization is an important and soon to be inevitable step in the future of retro gaming for PC users, but as of today, the only software that could give us a glimmer of hope is VMWare for anything that is not Glide or DOS run, and they're much more keen on ignoring the users on their forums who want to run games on them, and honestly, I cannot blame them. If you check the card emulations we have, all of them are for defunct companies. You won't see an ATI, Matrox or early Nvidia card shown, because those wouldn't give up the cards most likely because nobody wants to risk asking them, and if you check VMware, you get their own version of a software GPU.
I'd like to go on more detail on why the gaming side of virtualization is stuck in this rut, but I already went on long enough.
Pure quality content for LGR as usual. I've been slowly but surely watching nearly everything LGR has uploaded to youtube over the past year or so. I spend a lot of time working on a computer for a living and find it endlessly fascinating and comforting to watch these nostalgia channels while I work to re-encounter these relics from my youth. Personally I love to see the original hardware. I don't have the time or space to do it my self so it's great to watch other people do it and experience the nostalgia that way. For me it's not just about experiencing the software....it's about re living such a special time of my life where this stuff was so new and exciting to me. Although I do make good use of modern hardware for what I now do for a living, there was something so magical about a time when there were greater technological boundaries. We were experiencing the frontier of a new generation of technology and it felt genuinely optimistic and exciting at the time. I'm glad I was around to experience it and seeing all this old stuff again makes me happy. Thank you LGR, long may the nostalgia continue! :)
Thanks clint, and thanks to all the others like phil and 8bit, aa well as others i havent seen yet. Bravo to all of you for getting together in common good to make this happen.
Seems to me PhilsComputerLab has the best over all hardware set up out of everybody. Simple yet can play a wide variety of games and you get the best graphics and sounds from those games from his setup all on one system.
Ah, but there ARE compromises made. Most notably, changing the clock speed is not as simple as opening the BIOS menu and flipping a toggle like he demonstrates with the cache. It requires you to power the system down, disconnect it, open the case, and flip some DIP switches(since he chose wisely and isn't stuck with a board that uses jumper blocks to set the frequency and multiplier).
You also can't get the best sound out of a lot of DOS games without a real FM synthesis chip. Though there are others you'd be a fool to hamstring them like that. I'm not actually convinced that sound can BE a "one size fits all" solution for DOS games.
His system IS, however, my general approach. I got into the world of IBM-compatibles around the time of the Pentium's launch, so I jumped in at a point where people were coding on the assumption tomorrow's systems would be stupidly fast and my nostalgia conveniently misses most (but not all) of the "running too fast" issues. I've toyed with the idea of a Super 7 board with a SoundBlaster 16 AND AWE32 running alongside each other so I can pick and choose on the sound without tearing everything to bits. It winds up being more of a pain than it looks, unless you really love swapping boot disks.
@Jacob Turner That's super-useful!
@@CptJistuce Huh? Lots of motherboards from the socket7 and super socket 7 era allow you to set fsb and multiplier in the BIOS. There's also plentyof software tools like setfsb.
There's also next to do difference between dip switches and jumpers. They both simply make the physical trace connection making a direct connection. Exact same thing apart from their physical form.
@@beezle1976 I'm not speaking of all boards as a general rule. I'm speaking of THIS board used in THIS build.
And while electrically, switches and jumper blocks are the same, the former is more convenient, especially if you're going to change it frequently.
Context: it matters.
@@CptJistuce it’s done via software. No need to change dip settings
Dear god I lost my shit at the zoom after the Brutalmoose segment ... holy shit I'm in tears.
I thought I was the only one :)
I love when people don't cut out misspoken words and make a joke out of them instead, gg on that zoom in
This is such a fantastic video and an absolute gem for the community here. Keep up the incredible work, LGR!
That was fantastic! Well done LGR and friends.
Clint, this is one of your best episodes to date. Thanks.
Dosbox and ScummVM on a Raspberry Pi. ❤️💯
those are emulators. No real experience. get outta here :p
Great video on so many levels. For folks constrained by budget and space, it's hard to go wrong with a solid 486. Thanks for the Thanksgiving treat!
Not long ago I had no idea that retro computing and gaming was even a thing, and now I follow many of those interviewed here. It's so cool that you all know each other! Keep on rockin'! 🙂👍
Great to see you reach out to so many other youtubers for this. Well worth the watching. I have several systems from 486 through Pentium Pro, Celeron and P4. While I love the old hardware the EASIEST method is to use a MAC with DOSBOX and SCUMM VM. You can emulate the Roland on it, and the configuration is backed up in TIME MACHINE for easily migrating with future hardware. I won't be dropping my retro hardware anytime soon but this will help those looking into it.
All these great youtubers in one video! I must be dreaming.
I've a feeling the Ross Scott segment is going to be something along the lines of his gripes with all old Windows emulation.
Ross Scott did not disappoint.
The Zesseract I love Ross'sss ..... Scott's perspective on things in general. Always humorous, yet insightful. 😂
Player Taurine HELP!
It is really painful. Getting Midtown Madness or SW Pod Racers to run at all on modern Windows is hell itself. Want 3D acceleration so you aren't playing in ugly Software Mode? You're delving into madness. I solved Pod Racers, but its really unstable to get started still...never got Midtown Madness to work correctly. My favorites are source ports though. Albion has a source port out there that will run on modern Windows and allows for high resolution modes!
I managed to pick up 3 (yes, count them - one, two, three) IBM PS/2 model 50 machines a little while back, but I'm worried the caps have gone bad after 30-odd years, so I haven't even booted them yet for fear of blowing them up! I do plan on replacing the power supply caps, but need to do a clear-out of my workspace so I've got enough room to pull them apart.
They're 286 machines, which will be good for early DOS gaming. Unfortunately they didn't come with a CRT monitor, but I'm hoping to pick up an old Sony broadcast monitor that I can coax (if you'll pardon the pun) into displaying VGA natively.
Apart from that, I've got a 486 machine built from parts, with CPUs I can swap out, depending on what I want to do, including an Intel 486 DX 33, AMD AM486 DX 40, Intel 486 DX2 66, and a Cyrix 5x86 100GP. It's a later-era PCI motherboard, so I can run either PCI or ISA graphics, but I just use a cheap PCI card based on the Cirrus Logic CL-GD6556 chip. Hard drive is currently a CF card, currently 1GB, but I can swap others out depending on my OS requirements. Soundcard is a Sound Blaster AWE32.
I've also got on order some socket 7 era gear and other upgrades, including a PCI SATA card so I can play some crazy modern HDD/SSD upgrades, and a Roland MT-32 so I can get those awesome retro tunes.
Relatively speaking, it's not that expensive a hobby, especially compared to things like high-performance sports cars or skiing. But it is time-consuming and requires a decent amount of space.
8 months late.. but I really hope you decided to try out these machines.
Sure.. you risk popping some caps.. but the longer they sit the more likely they are to waste away.
Even if they do pop, though, it's not too hard to replace them with some new solid state capacitors.
Oh, also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Cyrix 5x86. I'm currently using an AMD 5x86 as a substitute for the Cyrix (my dream 486)..
..but it'll do. ;)
Hi Clint,
This is a comprehensive video about choosing the right retro pc game solution. You've done a really great job by asking others to share their views and solutions.
I think too that what really matters is what 'you' want to do (for example you want to play early 90's DOS games and then look at what best matches that desire, for example configure a 486 pc).
I would like to add some of my own experiences;
- Old laptop computers, such as shown by The 8-bit Guy, are in my view not really usuable for retro pc gaming. This has to do with bad (quality) screens, leaking batteries, bad proprietary power supplies, they can't be easily upgraded / expanded (without a docking station), they are hard to repair, it's not easy to find parts or expansions and the overall fragility and condition of old laptops can be a problem. You can be lucky and find a good one, but they are very scarce.
- Avoid IBM PS/2 pc's unless you like defective disk drives and proprietary hard to find expensive hardware.
- Somehow 486 AT compatible pc's seem to be quite popular. I think that a well thought-out configured 486 system is pretty great for 1990-1995 DOS gaming. It does take a lot of time and research though to configure a properly running pc for those games (if you are new in this hobby). The main drawback of a 486 pc is that it's really only good for that period of (primitive) games. Early 3D gaming is pretty much out of the question, you really want a Pentium class pc with 3D graphics card for that. That having said, Phil's suggestion of the AMD K6-III+ (and a couple other AMD K6 chips that can be 'tuned') system is the better alternative, because it covers a slightly wider period of games (bonus: you have more options for expansion cards and finding a decent ATX case is a LOT easier (but not all SS7 boards are ATX..)).
- For more recent retro pc games, let's say 2000-2007ish, I would recommend to look further than the Pentium 4 / Windows XP combination. The Pentium 4, especially the faster versions, produce a lot of heat (i.e. needs a really good cooler) and the 478 socket is quite fragile. Motherboard components of consumer versions of that period are also not always so great. It's better to look for workstation grade hardware. The good thing is that components for these newer systems are much more affordable. Besides Windows XP is best replaced with Windows 2000 SP4 and/or Windows Vista SP2. The first doesn't require activation and the latter can still be activated. XP will end up in an activation loop.
- It's a great idea to replace old hard disks with CF, SD, or SSD. Old hard drives can be noisy and unreliable.
- Authentic game floppy disks (5.25'') and diskettes (3.5'') are usually still readable after many years, if stored properly and carefully used. That's why it's still a good idea to add a (floppy) disk drive to a classic pc if you choose that option.
- CRT monitors may be period correct, but CRT's wear out over time and can't be replaced because nobody sells them anymore!
- And yes, eventually all classic pc hardware will fail. 'Recapping' is not enough to keep your system working for the long run and is certainly not a repair. So far however my Apple II still works..
This is a great guide it gives you the basics to get started so you can keep vintage gaming alive.
You should do a segment on Druaga1's infinite collection of Mac minis. I'm sure he'd install an SSD in one for you.
I would advice for windows 98 gaming: A slot1 Pentium2 or early Pentium 3 combined with a 3DFX, Matrox or nvidia video card, 128/256mb sdram. And you can play most titles! I have several builds on my channnel :)
Would be interesting to see an updated video on this topic. Retro PC's seem to have popped off the last couple years.
It's interesting that you mentioned running early Windows games using wine! It was something I hadn't really tried until about a year ago when I wanted to play an old Goosebumps game from my childhood that was notoriously impossible to get running on my windows machines. Sure enough, after a couple hours of playing with different configs I not only got it to run in wine perfectly, but I got it to run in a window where it previously forced fullscreen, which made it a lot easier to set up in OBS so I could stream it to my friends. I guess that's one of the benefits of using software that's been trying to emulate Windows since 98.
This was an awesome collaboration from some of my favorite nerds
Ross setting the standard with his sexy ass green-screen.
"In no particular order" my ass.
DGvoodoo 2 really needs a proper mention. It has great support for voodoo games, but also direct X games up to Direct X 8.1, I believe. It also allows for custom resolutions and forced anti aliasing so you can see an old 3D game that never came out with those features and has no other patch with this stuff. It's pretty amazing when it works. The executable has to be 32-bit though, it seems. I can't find any way around this.
damn, the old Voodoo 3000 teamed up with the Diamond sound card is what my dad did when we really got into gaming on pc. He was on forsaken all night in the dial up death matches. I was hooked on theif gold.
Another 2 great blasts from the middle ages!
oh man thief was so good, it's still good to play :)
I'm giddy! You and Ross collaborating is something I've wanted to see for a long time
I'm building my Retro Gaming PC from a HP Vectra VL400, using spare parts from the shop I work (the PC was discarted by a customer as well). I came in this video searching for some tips, and I got a lot of information. But for me, the peak point was when Brutalmoose presented his PC model just like mine! HELL YEAH!
Having LGR and Accursed Farms together has broken me
omfg watching your channel brings me back to my childhood thank you so much
God i miss the days of having two voodoo 2's and playing quake 2, duke nukem, and doom.... I miss making maps for those games and quake 3, I miss making skins and stuff. My first computer ever was a cheap COMPAQ that some sales men tricked my dad into paying MORE for the FLOOR DEMO ONE because it was the last one left! it had 48 megs of ram... and back then ram cost over $2 per meg!! and the cpu was a 266... but when I got a voodoo 3, I was able to play games that said they needed 64 megs of ram and a better cpu, my computer with the voodoo 3 ran those games perfectly, my friends with better comps but worse ghx cards couldnt believe it... lol
Now i barely get enjoyment from my GTX 1070 triple monitor set up that runs everything at max... just doesnt have the same magic as old school gaming did
tracked down the model number of my first comp, Compaq Presario 4640
Slime Bucket Downgrade and get a bunch of big box games and older computers 8)
Thank-you for making me feel old :-)
Nostalgic about when RAM was $2 per meg? Wow, that still sounds cheap to me. My 1st 16KB upgrade cost me $400 :-) Heck, 15 years later and 2x8MB EDO SIMMS cost me $750 ($375 a piece, and I was buying wholesale at the time, it was about $550 per 8Meg retail).
As for "the magic", well, that's down to usage. There's absolutely nothing stopping you doing the same things you said you used to enjoy (modding, skinning, etc other games).
A lot of nostalgia comes from the things a person enjoyed *doing*, but with time that "doing" often turns into "thinking about" . It's no wonder people wax lyrical about "the good old days",... they actually did stuff back then, not just waxing lyrical :-)
Thank you, Clint. For exploring this topic, and providing a myriad of opinions from people who actually use retro gaming in their content creation. It was genuinely illuminating. That so many people were willing to collaborate is also a testament to how you've helped establish this genre of content on UA-cam, and made connections with the other creators. Also, I gotta say... Your reactions to BrutalMoose/Ian's unscripted quirks were definitely comedy gold. Ha. :) Well done, sir.
I absolutely love when you guys do these kinds of collabs, I am subscribed to...the majority of the people in this video. You lot are the kind of people I would love to chill with, and just gush about old DOS games we liked, and talk about just everything retro PC gaming. I am pretty much alone in all of my 'circles' when it comes to this topic. Watching your content (Everybody in the video, as well) just brings a huge smile to my face everytime.
26:45 "It usually doesn't work" I had to pause and really laugh a bit
I laughed so freaking hard when Ross screamed "help" and Clint "aggghhh"'ed. I wish Ross and Clint would do a couple of game reviews together.
I really want to get a PC to run Windows XP or Vista on. I have a bunch of games I played all the time as a kid that aren't supported on newer systems and compatibility mode doesn't usually work well for me. I also might eventually want to get something that can run even older games.
Which games? Anything that works on Vista should run on 7.
SimCity 4, Age of Mythology, and Zoo Tycoon 2 are the ones I've had the most trouble getting to work. I've tried them on my old laptop with Windows 7. I remember it did work at one point, but then there was an update that made it so I couldn't anymore. For a while I was able to get them to work by turning off some security feature, but then I started having problems with that, too. I was only able to get AoM to work one time when I didn't have time to play it, I was just trying to make it work. After that it wouldn't run again. SimCity 4 and Zoo Tycoon 2 worked a few times before they stopped running as well.
Oh yeah, there's also Age of Empires III and Dungeon Siege.
AluminumDragon pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Age_of_Mythology
Keep that site handy, it'll help with a lot of these issues.
Dungeon Siege should work. I played it recently but all online modes in those games are gone due to GameSpy taking a dive.
I'll have another go at getting the games to work. Thank you for your help :)
Fascinating video! Love learning more about the computers I used growing up!
What I loved even more is you introducing me to 6 more excellent youtubers! Thank You!
A good Pentium III notebook is the only think I need. I'm watching all your videos and I can't believe all the space you've got there to place old machines that I could only dream about!. Great idea of a video with all the guests (I didn't know most of them)
Accursed Farms did mention a great point. Games being run in future hardware. Right now its not that great. it can be troublesome. I'd like if developers or publishers would dedicate some time to at least make it run easier...easier than being said I know but still, it would be great. I know some do but doing a standard in that area would be appreciated.
My question: Next to popular Operating Systems... What do you like to use as a GUI (on MS-DOS)?
I'm asking this because on my Dosmachine I have running a user friendly menu called Quickmenu III (1993).
It's filled up with custom made icons and over 500 games. I'd like to make a video on this anytime soon and I'd like to share it. The complete package runs on Dosbox aswel! Although it's filled with non-shareware games so I don't want to share this illigally, that's why I haven't (yet). I'm still figuring out a way to do so maybe one day. If you're interested in this menu, let me know. If there's any animo for it I might make a video on it real soon!
Bart.
I don't really use anything other than Norton Commander here and there. Typically I stick to the command line, or just use Windows!
Norton Commander is awesome too. I wanted to make something foolproof. I don't like leaving my machine alone with strangers that might remember commands like 'format C:', just to annoy me (you never know). You can't leave or alter my menu without a password. This way the menu can be used in a museum or somesort.
NC is awesome! also ncie to do serial port transfers
dosshell was fun, I actually liked it better than 3.1 :)
sinephase I have dosshell installed on my DOS machine (came with the supplemental disk), don't really know how to navigate around in it though.
That is NOT how I thought "Freeman's Mind" would look like haha
lol. I know what you mean. Granted, I've seen him dozens of times before, so the surprise has worn off, but the first time... Yeah.
That was NOT what I expected. XD
His current videos are good too, especially Game Dungeon.
This Christmas he's uploading 3 new Freeman's Mind episodes
I remember when he used to look like Gordon freeman
TURN DOWN THE MUSIC, YA FRIGGIN' BASSHEADS!
I think the great thing about this video is that it highlights the fact that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat. Real hardware, emulation.. everything has their pluses and minuses, but the fact that you can go multiple ways while being completely happy is terrific.
Have no idea why I love watching this old pc stuff maybe it just takes me back to my youth
29:00 These people obviously never had to mess with windows drivers.
Or dos IRQ conflicts
vmware also emulates irq problems LOL
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO ID SEPTERRA CORE FOR YEARS AND ALMOST WRECKED MY VAN WHEN METAL JESUS MENTIONED IT
Easily one of my favorite channels on UA-cam. No else takes me back to the past like LGR. I kind of regret avoiding so many great DOS RPG's that my brother and dad used to play. I think I was more interesting in watching games played back then, more than actually playing them. Then again... that wouldn't be any different then now as I'm always on YT watching people play games lol
I'm glad you mentioned Wine in your video because not many people recognise its usefulness for running old games. I run a fairly average machine with an AMD dual core processor (2.3 GHz), 4GB RAM and an HD5450 graphics card with Linux Mint 17.2 and, with the help of PlayOnLinux, I'm able to run a lot of the games you discuss in your videos (including the retail disc version of POD and Need for Speed 2: Special Edition) and often the ones that don't run pose the same problems on Windows. And, if you throw in DOSBox, GOG and Steam, Linux isn't too bad a place to be for retro PC games.
I have an old Windows 98 rig (AMD single core (1.6 GHz), 256MB RAM and Nvidia MX-440 graphics card) and a few old XP laptops that come in handy for the odd game but I'm able to run most of the games I want to play on the Linux desktop and, half the time, it's actually easier to get the games running on Linux than on the Windows hardware.
Really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
Great video! I really like how you reached out to other retro game playing UA-camrs! Lots of fun and insight. I just use wine, dosbox with the dbgl front end, scummVM, on rare occasions, but hardly ever VirtualBox all under Linux.
The video equivalent of a Traveling Wilburys record
A lot of LGR vids are 10/10.. but this one.. This one goes to 11
EMUTATING
RykosOmega you know...emulating kinda mutates the old game in a way. He was onto something there
Awesome video, Clint! I actually have two systems in various states of assembly, and your videos really help in issues I'm having. I remember back in college playing 'Doom' over serial cable with everyone's PC moved into one dorm room and and almost wish you and all the guest UA-camrs you had on here could do something similar. =)
My first rig was a 486DX2@66Mhz from Cyrix, and I loved it. Out of all setups though, I think Phil's is the most clever with the cache manipulation, plus the Voodoo card for extra crispy graphics.
Very nice video, I just want to add a maybe less known thing that no one mentioned, which is nGlide. NGlide is a 3dfx Glide emulator for newer videocards, with it you can play most Windows 98 3dfx games on a more modern PC, by just installing a simple driver, for example I use it on my Pentium 4 with an nVidia GeForce card, this allows older games that won't even start because you don't have a 3dfx card to run flawlessly, and at max settings on top of that. Pair that with DosBox and you can have a machine that can run games from the early Dos days up until the early 2000s with little to no issues. My biggest problem was actually to run POD, but I found a patch to run it on the internet, so with a little research you can run pretty much anything.
nGlide is very well known. I suspect anyone who is aware of Glide also knows nGlide.
The problem with nGlide though is that it's getting more and more broken with every dx release. It's a wrapper to d3d, but as d3d changes and evolves (and breaks some software compatibility in the process), the nGlide wrapper also breaks slowly but surely.
Personally I find the 3dfx cards way over-rated anyway. Up unto voodoo2/banshee they offered something interesting. From then on end all they offered was evidence of how crazy far they fell behind in such a short space of time. Even glide, it's saving grace, was hideously outclassed by d3d by this point.
Poor performance, horrible image quality, 16bit restrictions, no proper d3d support, etc., etc.... yet people still get warm and fuzzy about them. I can only put it down to nostalgia beyond v1 and v2.
It may be very well known, but nobody even mentioned it. Anyway, yes it is better in an old PC, which is the point of the video, that's why I'm using it in a Pentium 4 with windows XP, old Direct X it's the only thing you need in a retro PC. As I said with a P4 and nglide you can play nearly any glide windows 95-98 game. I think the one I'm using has DX9 at the moment
nglide never works for me, not even in my pentium 4 with an nvidia geforce ti 4200, it made need for speed work... kinda, very laggy... I don't wanna play it like that.
Didnt ask victor bart this question then you had 10 people with expertise.
What about using a modern build with a old crt? Is that really a bad idea?
Not bad at all! Before I got my retro rig, I often used to plug a 19" crt to my main machine and play on DosBox with it for a bit more authenticity. The old games look a lot crisper on it than on a modern LCD/LED monitor.
Wow, some of my favorite UA-cam channels together at last! Great video Clint, I miss the days when I played space quest 3 on my 486 dx2 66...
Nice video. It really starts with the right question: "what do you want to run?"
As a general rule of thumb it can be said tht the older the hardware ist the more hassle it will be to handle. (like harddrive cable that have no convenient marker which way round to plug them in and much nastier stuff. Also it is a matter of supply and demand, some old stuff is harder and harder to get..
For really old stuff, like pre VESA graphics games I would probably not bother and just emulate them.
There are a few things that I would not want to forgo for an old machine:
- ATX standard mainboard (the older non standard one need specific cases, power supplies, have almost no connectors so you need a ton of ISA or PCI based conroller cards etc etc.
- PS/2 mouse and keyboard connectors. Finding old keyboards and old mouses gets more difficult by the year, and I really have no idea if tere ever was a serial optical mouse. And ball-mouses, let's be honest - were shit.
12:21 Hellbender FTW!!
Also has anyone heard of nGlide?
nGlide is a 3Dfx Voodoo Glide wrapper. It allows you to play games designed
for 3Dfx Glide API without the need for having 3Dfx Voodoo graphics card.
All three API versions are supported, Glide 2.1 (glide.dll), Glide 2.4 (glide2x.dll) and Glide 3.0 (glide3x.dll). nGlide translates all Glide calls to Direct3D.
Glide wrapper also supports high resolution modes.
www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide
+Jack Kraken Actually, it was Terminal Velocity; Easy mistake to make though! ;)
Yes you're right but what is weird is that the graphics , animations and even the explosions are virtually identical to Hellbender, although the HUD is somewhat different.
They were made with the same game engine:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Velocity_(video_game)
+Jack
Kraken Yup, even Fury3 shares a lot of the same stuff. All three of those games are VERY similar to each other! ;)
I remember loving Hellbender but I remember getting tired of the repetitive gameplay, any idea if the others had the same problem?
+Jack
Kraken Ohhhh yeah. Gameplay is super-repetitive on all three, but at least the bosses, missions and weapons are different. You can also make these games go by faster by forgoing exploration and just focussing on mission objectives. :B