Thank you for watching this video! ❤If you have any questions, clarifications, or corrections, please feel free to leave them in the comments below! 💬⬇
8:36 Hi! Can you explain me what role do these Archons/lay-leaders have at the Coptic Church and when they were created and assumed their current role??
Archon means ruler in Greek. These people don't have an actual position in the Church, but rather were seen as leaders within the community. They were basically the Christian Counts/Nomarchs and Dukes of Egypt. Eventually merchants, and government officials became lumped into the category as well. The title basically describes any influential lay-person. Their role within the community was to use their wealth and influence to assist in serving the community and protecting the political freedoms and interests of the congregation. They were basically the bridge connecting the Church and the State. They still serve the same role to this day, but the word isn't as commonly used anymore. Prominent examples of modern "archons" would be the Sawiris brothers, (Naguib, Sameeh, and Nasseef) who are Egyptian business tycoons, and the Boutrous Ghali political dynasty (including Boutrous Boutrous Ghali, former Secretary-General of the United Nations, and Youssef Boutrous Ghali the former Minister of Finance).
@@AsItWas00 "Archons" could be good for protecting and guiding the Church during persecution, but relinquishing control to the laity could be a big mistake in these hyper-political times.
I was basically always taught that the Coptic church is “essentially Catholic but in Egypt”. It’s not only nice to have a video dedicated to how they elect popes but an entire channel to Coptic history and theology.
We have similar beliefs to Roman Catholics. There are some differences in the understanding of Christ's nature, also purgatory and the treasury of merits.
Thank you so so much for this video! I have always been interested about this subject but didn't know where to look, so I'm so happy you made this video! It's so detailed, informed, and interesting! Keep going with all these studies, it's helping a lot!
Thank you very much! The data I used is mostly sourced from Saad, Saad Michael, Nardine Saad Riegels, and Donald A Westbrook. “TRADITIONS OF SELECTING COPTIC PATRIARCHS OVER TWO MILLENNIA.” Journal of Coptic Studies 16 (2014): 139-53. doi.org/10.2143/JCS.16.0.3066725. Give that article a read if you want to learn more about this subject!
Very cool. The papal election process/history in Rome has always intrigued me, so it's great that you provided a concise and detailed explanation of the Alexandrian elections.
I am very happy to have stumbled across this channel and that you Anglicise the names of the Popes, the names fit better into English text and give us connectivity with the namesakes. It's a good practice and common elsewhere but unfortunately forgotten by a lot.
Thank you very much for this very rich video. Your work is very important and necessary, but unfortunately content about the Coptic Church on the internet is scarce. Please continue with your good work, may God bless you, brother.
Really fascinating as a Roman Catholic. I know Copts protect all Christians and are the most recent non Catholic group to have approved martyrs. Prayers for your community 🙏
The official title is “Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of St. Mark,” however, that same title is also claimed by the Greek Orthodox Pope of Alexandria, who quite confusingly is also named Theodore II. So to differentiate between the two Patriarchates the Greek Orthodox (Chalcedonian) and Coptic Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) we colloquially refer to them by their ethnic/denominational identifiers “Coptic Pope” or “Greek Pope” respectively.
There is also a Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria, but he doesn’t use the title Pope because he doesn’t want to cause confusion for the Roman Catholics.
If you are interested in ancient texts, I would recommend you learn Sahidic Coptic. There are a few text books, I think the most popular one is Thomas Lambdin's "Introduction to Sahidic Coptic" gnosis.study/library/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8/ENG/Lambdin%20T.O.%20-%20Introduction%20to%20Sahidic%20Coptic.pdf Sahidic Coptic was one of the first languages into which the Bible was translated, so definitely I would say the Coptic New Testament is an important ancient text. Other important literary works in Coptic include the writings of St. Shenouda and St. Pachomius.
This is almost like the election of the Serbian Orthodox Patriarch, but instead of a child it was a holy monk and the names of the candidates were placed inside the Holy Gospel on the Altar.
The majority of Copts today unfortunately do not know how to read Coptic, so if the names were written in Coptic, the majority of the congregation would be confused as to who was elected; thus, the Church wrote the name in Arabic to make it clear who the next Pope was. The Coptic Church also has always championed the use of the vernacular language, whatever it may be, in liturgy. Since all Egyptians today speak Arabic as their first language, Arabic tends to be the main language used in the liturgy in Egypt, with only a few parts chanted in Coptic. The same thing is done here in the USA where English has become the main language of the Coptic Liturgy.
@AsItWas00 in catholicism first apostolic succession is only valid if it's done by their canons, so neither Anglicans have apostolic succession according to Catholics even when they almost elect and ordain bishops they same way Catholics do except for papal approval. But apart from that does presbyterian election in Coptic church meant the own 12 ordained the new bishop without another bishop ordaining him? (Btw I don't believe presbyterial ordination is not valid, I think it is)
Perfect! So, I will try to explain this to the best of my ability. The core issue here is the fact that the distinction between what a priest and what a bishop is was only solidified in the late second century. Before then the terms were almost interchangeable. The Bishop was just a first among equals of priests. When Saint Mark consecrated Anianus as Bishop/Overseer of the Church, he also consecrated with him 12 or 3 Presbyters/Elders to assist him in service (sources vary); so at that time those priests were roughly equal in rank to the bishop, and also had Apostolic succession. The line between priest and bishop was not fully defined until the time of Pope Demetrius I, the 12th Patriarch. He divided Egypt into suffragan dioceses under himself and appointed a bishop to each see, making clear that there was a hierarchical difference between a bishop and a priest, with the Pope being first among equals with the bishops. From that point on all ordinations were done by bishops, even when the Pope was elected by the Priests of Alexandria; since election and ordination are two separate events. I am sure that the Church of Rome had a similar situation at that time.
The anglican orders are not seen as valid because King Edward VI changed some integral parts of the Ordinal on the topic of a Sacrificial Priesthood. When it was changed back 100 years later, most of the Church had lost the "valid" succession. But, since the Anglicans are now in communion with Old Catholics whose orders are seen as valid and who in great part concelebrate the consecrations, the validity of their orders is dubious, but not necessarily void.
Thank you for watching this video! ❤If you have any questions, clarifications, or corrections, please feel free to leave them in the comments below! 💬⬇
8:36 Hi! Can you explain me what role do these Archons/lay-leaders have at the Coptic Church and when they were created and assumed their current role??
Archon means ruler in Greek. These people don't have an actual position in the Church, but rather were seen as leaders within the community. They were basically the Christian Counts/Nomarchs and Dukes of Egypt. Eventually merchants, and government officials became lumped into the category as well. The title basically describes any influential lay-person. Their role within the community was to use their wealth and influence to assist in serving the community and protecting the political freedoms and interests of the congregation. They were basically the bridge connecting the Church and the State. They still serve the same role to this day, but the word isn't as commonly used anymore. Prominent examples of modern "archons" would be the Sawiris brothers, (Naguib, Sameeh, and Nasseef) who are Egyptian business tycoons, and the Boutrous Ghali political dynasty (including Boutrous Boutrous Ghali, former Secretary-General of the United Nations, and Youssef Boutrous Ghali the former Minister of Finance).
@@AsItWas00 "Archons" could be good for protecting and guiding the Church during persecution, but relinquishing control to the laity could be a big mistake in these hyper-political times.
Thanks. Very Enlightening! Thanks for explaining!
I was basically always taught that the Coptic church is “essentially Catholic but in Egypt”. It’s not only nice to have a video dedicated to how they elect popes but an entire channel to Coptic history and theology.
We have similar beliefs to Roman Catholics. There are some differences in the understanding of Christ's nature, also purgatory and the treasury of merits.
@@Corpoise0974There is the Coptic Catholic Church too.
Thank you so so much for this video! I have always been interested about this subject but didn't know where to look, so I'm so happy you made this video! It's so detailed, informed, and interesting! Keep going with all these studies, it's helping a lot!
Thank you very much! The data I used is mostly sourced from Saad, Saad Michael, Nardine Saad Riegels, and Donald A Westbrook. “TRADITIONS OF SELECTING COPTIC PATRIARCHS OVER TWO MILLENNIA.” Journal of Coptic Studies 16 (2014): 139-53. doi.org/10.2143/JCS.16.0.3066725.
Give that article a read if you want to learn more about this subject!
Very cool. The papal election process/history in Rome has always intrigued me, so it's great that you provided a concise and detailed explanation of the Alexandrian elections.
Thank you for watching! I hope to see someone make a similar discussion of the Roman elections, because those are indeed interesting.
@@AsItWas00 Do you know how many of the patriarchates use elections like Rome/Alexandria?
I believe all Patriarchates have an election process, but each one has separate traditions and criteria for the election and candidates.
That was a thorough and well-informed video! Thank you!
Thank you! I am Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for enlightening us on how Coptic papal election work very fascinating stuff indeed
Crisp, illuminative. Great communication makes learning easy. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
What a lovely video! As an Anglican the Coptic Church is very interesting to me.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Super informative video and so so interesting!
I am very happy to have stumbled across this channel and that you Anglicise the names of the Popes, the names fit better into English text and give us connectivity with the namesakes. It's a good practice and common elsewhere but unfortunately forgotten by a lot.
as an Eastern Orthodox, it's interesting to learn about the coptics. Nice video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for the great video. Very different from us Anglicans in Canada.
Thank you for watching! I am glad you enjoyed it.
Isn't the king supposed to be your pope ?
Thank you very much for this very rich video. Your work is very important and necessary, but unfortunately content about the Coptic Church on the internet is scarce. Please continue with your good work, may God bless you, brother.
3:40 quick correction, the narration says John VII, but it should be John IV as is written on the screen.
Good catch!
I had no idea the copts had a pope, very interesting video, very well made, thank you!
Alexandria was one of the three papal seats with Rome and Constantinople.
Informative, thank you
Thanks for watching!
Interesting video. Really enjoyed this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Superlative video.
Thank you very much! I am glad you think so!
Absolutely no idea why this was recommended, but a very interesting video. Really, it makes drastically more sense to literally let god decide.
They don't only have a pope but he's also the third most powerful man in Egypt.
Here is a comment for the algorithm. Great video.
Thank you, much appreciated!
Really fascinating as a Roman Catholic. I know Copts protect all Christians and are the most recent non Catholic group to have approved martyrs. Prayers for your community 🙏
*non roman
I love this
Coptic language revival PLEASE GOD 🙏
The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD. Proverbs 16:33
I thought the official title was Patriarch of Alexandria, not the Coptic pope?
The official title is “Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of St. Mark,” however, that same title is also claimed by the Greek Orthodox Pope of Alexandria, who quite confusingly is also named Theodore II. So to differentiate between the two Patriarchates the Greek Orthodox (Chalcedonian) and Coptic Orthodox (Non-Chalcedonian) we colloquially refer to them by their ethnic/denominational identifiers “Coptic Pope” or “Greek Pope” respectively.
There is also a Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria, but he doesn’t use the title Pope because he doesn’t want to cause confusion for the Roman Catholics.
@@AsItWas00 that’s fascinating, thank you for clearing this up for me!
What books do you recommend for learning Coptic and what are some important ancient texts written in Coptic?
If you are interested in ancient texts, I would recommend you learn Sahidic Coptic. There are a few text books, I think the most popular one is Thomas Lambdin's "Introduction to Sahidic Coptic" gnosis.study/library/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8/ENG/Lambdin%20T.O.%20-%20Introduction%20to%20Sahidic%20Coptic.pdf
Sahidic Coptic was one of the first languages into which the Bible was translated, so definitely I would say the Coptic New Testament is an important ancient text. Other important literary works in Coptic include the writings of St. Shenouda and St. Pachomius.
The entire Hieroglyphic canon was written in Ancient Coptic….
This is almost like the election of the Serbian Orthodox Patriarch, but instead of a child it was a holy monk and the names of the candidates were placed inside the Holy Gospel on the Altar.
I would be very interested in a history of the Archons
That's a good idea. I will take it into consideration.
Wow
I'm surprised it uses Arabic not Coptic.
The majority of Copts today unfortunately do not know how to read Coptic, so if the names were written in Coptic, the majority of the congregation would be confused as to who was elected; thus, the Church wrote the name in Arabic to make it clear who the next Pope was. The Coptic Church also has always championed the use of the vernacular language, whatever it may be, in liturgy. Since all Egyptians today speak Arabic as their first language, Arabic tends to be the main language used in the liturgy in Egypt, with only a few parts chanted in Coptic. The same thing is done here in the USA where English has become the main language of the Coptic Liturgy.
12 presbyters election don't break apostolic succession, as Catholics would argue?
Why would it? If you can please elaborate...
@AsItWas00 in catholicism first apostolic succession is only valid if it's done by their canons, so neither Anglicans have apostolic succession according to Catholics even when they almost elect and ordain bishops they same way Catholics do except for papal approval.
But apart from that does presbyterian election in Coptic church meant the own 12 ordained the new bishop without another bishop ordaining him?
(Btw I don't believe presbyterial ordination is not valid, I think it is)
Perfect! So, I will try to explain this to the best of my ability. The core issue here is the fact that the distinction between what a priest and what a bishop is was only solidified in the late second century. Before then the terms were almost interchangeable. The Bishop was just a first among equals of priests. When Saint Mark consecrated Anianus as Bishop/Overseer of the Church, he also consecrated with him 12 or 3 Presbyters/Elders to assist him in service (sources vary); so at that time those priests were roughly equal in rank to the bishop, and also had Apostolic succession. The line between priest and bishop was not fully defined until the time of Pope Demetrius I, the 12th Patriarch. He divided Egypt into suffragan dioceses under himself and appointed a bishop to each see, making clear that there was a hierarchical difference between a bishop and a priest, with the Pope being first among equals with the bishops. From that point on all ordinations were done by bishops, even when the Pope was elected by the Priests of Alexandria; since election and ordination are two separate events. I am sure that the Church of Rome had a similar situation at that time.
@@AsItWas00Many popes were elected by the laity and clergy of Rome. Apostolic Succession lies on the ordination/consacration, not the election.
The anglican orders are not seen as valid because King Edward VI changed some integral parts of the Ordinal on the topic of a Sacrificial Priesthood. When it was changed back 100 years later, most of the Church had lost the "valid" succession.
But, since the Anglicans are now in communion with Old Catholics whose orders are seen as valid and who in great part concelebrate the consecrations, the validity of their orders is dubious, but not necessarily void.
Gacha pope
Silly!!!…but what ever 🥱
Coptic Popes like Jesus are bearded and well-groomed, unlike the Roman Pope who is cruel and deviates from Jesus' teachings.
Why call it strange? No weider than Christians, Islam or any other ritual
what do you mean they're Christians