The reason Sigma is so good is because he can do damage and block it at the same time. Tanks like hog can’t do damage while blocking. Sigma v. hog is like a 6v5. Sigma accomplishes the tasks of tanking and dps at the same time, it’s like he has the combined effectiveness of 2 heroes.
Yeah I started to main him after feeling guilty about playing Hog in season 2. Great hero. Made me hate brawl tanks. It’s so boring spending most of my time getting to the enemy while being mowed down
Any shield tank has that kind of capability. Overwatch 1 orisa was the QUEEN of bunker comp. Her shield was near undeletable and she was able to CC and do damage like crazy. A face tank back then, and honestly still, is perceived as a "off tank". The tank you play alongside the shield tank. The off tank alone is at best a bulky damage hero. Blizzard thinks shields are healthy so off tanks that just face shield damage will be the norm from now on.
They could have solved the old 6v6 "problems" and avoided the 5v5 problems by just making specific slots for main and off tank and a team could only choose one of each.
You didn't even need to do that. Double shield was only strong because cc was so strong. Dive bypasses shields, but cc oppressed dive to heavily in OW1. Reducing cc alone would have made double shield far less strong.
This issue with tanks is directly because of the tragic decision of 5v5. I had the same problem when I was trying to play Mauga. The other team picks a tank he's bad against, and bam, you can't play him. It's this sort of rock-paper-scissors matchup, but in OW1 it wasn't as big a problem, because you had someone else who could go rock if you went paper.
The reason 6v6 is gone is because one team would choose orisa/sigma and the other team would choose hog/ball. The community ruined 6v6 and blizz got rid of it.
@@BTRshowThey could have added an off tank role queue so that comps like orisa sigma and hog ball were not possible but as always blizz just chose the lazy solution and made the game worse.
@@BTRshow Then nerf them you idiot or add a role specifically for offtanks. Them removing one outright IS the reason for almost every balance problem in OW2.
The problem with the tanks in this game is that they were designed originally with a 2 tank system. The tanks that are performing better currently were main tanks in Overwatch 1, and the secondary/support tanks (like Hog, Zarya, and Ball) are or were underperforming because they weren’t designed to be a primary tank. Blizzard now is trying to backtrack on those tanks to make them capable of tanking in a 1 tank system. That’s why there have been major power swings with those tanks when they have tried to balance them, since they can’t tank the greatest because they weren’t designed to. Edit: I get it, tanks are more balanced now. Point is, more of the tanks that were off tanks in Overwatch 1 have had more trouble with proper balance and have had more significant balance swings.
it's not really secondary tanks specifically that are struggling it's the tanks that were heavily designed around 6v6 that are struggling like rein, ball, hog.
@@craignp007That's another 5v5 issue, it's too easy to counter the one tank. Not necessarily a DVa or specific tank problem. It just affects some tanks more than others. Which is why 6v6 was better if only they did some experimenting to prevent double shield (plus reworks were always an option, look at Orisa)
Another way we've discussed to make things better was just introduce an "off tank role" and split up shield tanks with non-shield tanks and make it so you can only have one of each. Hog and many tanks thrive in open queue much more. The game almost feels better there these days.
yeah, I thought the same thing. They should at least experiment with the idea as an arcade mode. That way it isn't really affecting the main game and they can look at study the effects of it.
Fully agree with open queue being better, it's a mode in which i've felt much less stressed out overall. I personally believe 5v5 was okay for open queue, but faced issues in role queue because of its role imbalance with tanks being completely isolated.
You know how people say this game is like Rock-Paper-Scissors? The single tank structure has made this a reality when playing tank. No matter what tank you may play, the other team will switch to the counter tank, then you switch, then they switch, so on and so forth. The previous structure allowed the two tanks to pick heroes that complimented eachother to make up for each others weaknesses. While it wasn't perfect, it felt a hell of a lot better since there was room for creative and interesting compositions.
This has been the issue since DAY ONE of OW2, 6v6 needs to come back, they can rework shield but they cant rework what happens when someone counterpicks your tank.
EXACTLY! the 1v1 tank puts too much pressure on the tank role. Off tanks are hard to balance, and supports are too strong. They should have just reworked shields and cc but kept it as 6v6
I think they can do it now and be fine. Think about it Rammatra doesn't care about shields, Orisa ult goes through shields... I think double shields wouldn't be that bad anymore and with the fact this game is still young and will keep getting stuff they are in a position to where double shields could be less effective over all.
hmmm only if you could pair hog and sig or like zar to make up for what the weakness of the hero i wonder how that would play out who know though 5v5 is just the greatest and didnt bring 7000000 more problems
@@matthewcarley4600 When playing flex in comp I got tank basically all but once over two dozen or so games this season. People still aren't that hyped to play tank proportionally. And that's with even more tank heroes available. Doesn't seem like they actually made the role better. edit: the or so could be like 3 to 5 dozen if we include all my time in ow 2.
@@matthewcarley4600 wrong they abondoned the first game and never actually balanced it, lost a lot of core people and changed to 5v5 and a new shop for only god knows why.
Every time I've queued for comp in the past week I've seen Support with a queue time of 3 min, Damage with 2, and Tank with 1. That's all you need to know about how people feel about playing Tank right now
Same here. 9 out of 10 I always get tank when qued for all roles. It's like nobody wants to play tank. It's also the most stressful to play. If you lose its your fault, if you win it's the dmg who allegedly carry even though tank literally did more damage and eliminations.
Especially Support need another nerf as Supp main who play also Tank i realise how strong the role become Ana, Mercy need heal nerf last Patch Ana got 1s and mercy nothing. This was not a "Support nerf" what we wan't.
I am (was) an Ana main. I haven't played since season 2, but I've thought ever since OW2 went 5v5, that Ana's nade needs to reduce the amount of healing on anti-naded targets rather than completely preventing it. The single tank can't compete with anti-heal and Blizz keeps trying to balance tanks around that single ability rather than fix the root of the problem.
Blizzard doesn't try to balance the game, they have a wheel consisting of each hero in the game, on every single balance change, they roll the wheel 2-3 times and use another wheel to decide if they are going to nerf or buff said character. This is literally how balancing goes.
@@muysli.y1855 not a single support needs a healing nerf and making this claim shows you're low skilled and watch flats. the only thing that needs a hard nerf in this game is damage. the amount of characters who can kill a 200hp target in under a second is ridiculous, supports literally cannot even try to keep up, thats why things like suzu and grip exist
Tank combos is what made every tank viable in some way. You could cover the flaws of one tank with the strength of another tank. Same for every other role in the game. It boggles my mind that people don’t see how so many of the issues created in OW2 stem from changing to 5v5. We wouldn’t even need most of these reworks if they had just stayed with 6v6. It takes dev time away from new heroes and maps, while making tanking terrible in general.
We wouldn't need those reworks but we would need others. None of the problems OW has come from the format, it"s all balancing, 6v6 and 5v5 have their own rules to make tanking good, they got it right at the start of ow1 for the most part, but then failed miserably over time, 5v5 is a middle ground but way easier to fix than 6v6, specially with how many of the tank matchups can feel very fair depending on the team comp. Obviously there are unfair matchups but all they have to do is work on them over time to remove counter picking (which is totally doable), one tank can work and the general feeling when ow2 launched was that tank was the most fun role in the whole game, what changed since back then? Balancing, that's all, it was still 5v5 and it worked well.
Or you’d want to play Winston on a high ground main map and the other tank picks hog… It’s absurd to suggest people wanted to play tank in 6v6, it was awful, the lack of tank players is why they changed
@@HalysonFernandes Simpler solution is to just split tank just as damg said. Even before the 5v5 that seemed the more logical one. ANd by the time I was arriving the double shield almost never showed up in most games, and when it did, it didn't go any better than anything else.
They did with Roadhog what Square Enix did to tanks in FFXIV, they're making changes to have them appeal to DPS players and the main stuff they're doing is making them less tanks and more DPS. Let's also not forget Roadhog was designed as an OFFTANK BRUISER IN A GAME WITH A 2ND TANK, so he will literally never fully fit 5v5 because he's not there to tank and defend.
Ff14 and OW tanks got to where they are for completely different reasons. Tanks in FF14 got there because Tanks were complaining that they were underperforming in terms of potential DPS, so they were turned into that. The move from having more tank responsibility was because they changed the way raids are designed, which allowed for more creative and more difficult fights. I can see why you would make the connection on the surface but they are 2 completely different situations and not at all comparable. And no matter how many tanks on FF14 complain, the vast majority of the community asked for those changes, which is why they happened. That is also a huge difference from FF14 and OW.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Tanks never complained, i was one. It reached that point because they were simplifying everything and one of the core things simplified was the tank role, making aggro a matter of "turn on tank stance" and that's it, that's why they call them blue dps. Don't try to talk about something you know shit about.
@@doublelizard767 That's how a majority of FF14 players pick a class. Which I think is great fro the game, "hardcore" players cry about it, like they cry about everything, thinking they are above everyone else for being "harcore". Same thing goes for WoW and pretty much every game with a hardcore playerbase, like Souls games as well. But being able to play the class you want simply because it looks cool or its fun will always be a good thing.
i miss 6 v 6 tbh. Lol. Having the extra tank was pretty nice most of the time. They coulda just removed or lessened shields (they already did, so...) and kept it 6 v 6 in my opinion...
Hog fundamentally, design-wise, is still just an off-tank crammed into the role of a main-tank. The experience in the video matches the one I had in the game, as well. 5 vs 5 problems. Already commented on that under a previous video. You know, here's another crazy idea: on top of damage reduction, why not make Hog grow in size when he uses his breather? Then his teammates could at least hide behind him and use him - quite literally - as a meat shield. Or, I don't know, bring 6 vs 6 back.
It's almost like 6v6 was better hmmm. Every game now features a feeding hog and supports focusing solely on keeping a tank with low MIT capabilities alive. Terrible!
They should bring back 6v6, where the second tank category are the brawler tanks only (doom, ball, hog, mauga) and balance for that. Also, Ana's nade can be balanced by making it reduce healing taken by 50-75% instead of preventing it entirely. They could also add a cleanse effect to the anti heal, adding another layer of mind games of an Ana mirror.
@@fadimeersinyeah technically doomfist is a dive tank same as Winston,ball,and dva but he can also brawl so basically he’s a hybrid he just can’t brawl as good as like Reinhardt
Blizzard Activision knows for a fact that bringing back 6v6 won’t make the queue times longer at all, a lot of people like 6v6,5v5 and arcade. Also 6v6 has a lot of good things about it like getting to play with their tank friends back again for tank duos, also it’ll bring back the tank interactions or multi character interactions including tanks, not to mention it will make it easier for some teams to peel since there’s another tank that is protecting the backline for your supports and when the enemies are retreating that tank can add more firepower backing up the other tank teammate when pushing onwards. There are a lot of people who likes to play 6v6 more than what other people think. Also a lot of characters can disrupt the two shield tank meta, or 4 shield meta with mei and brig. Like sombra with her hacks, pharah, junkrat, hanzo, mei with her walls to trap enemies and her ultimate, roadhog hooks and ultimate, the tank buster reaper, etc. There are a lot of choices, just that people don’t want to apply the effort and just complain for the sake of chaos and enjoying toxic workplace environments.
@_OtakunGamer_ i 100% agree with everything that you’ve said, if more players are more willing to be open minded to listen to their other teammates solutions, solve the problems using another point of view or angle and generally just start using common sense and logic, we could have an inviting and stress free world for online team co-op pvp games.
I do have +6,6k hours in OW. In my opinion counter swapping in OW2 is cringe af and so exhausting. AND ESPECIALLY AS A TANK PLAYER its so depressing not being able to play what u want. That's why I moved onto 24/7 QP so I can pick whatever. Also 6v6 was so much fun. But that's another chapter
I think what's important for Hog is having a place to hook someone, like the well on Illios, so now that he has a trap, he always has a place to put someone.
Yeah he had a place to pull someone that does the same amount of damage as a fall off a map, it’s called your team. It old overwatch if hog got a hook the character should be dead before they make it back to hog the same way he was after his nerfs in ow2 it’s all about team play of team firing
@@virtuerse I wouldn't say most, or that they're drooling on the control. It's just more than I can't expect them to want to spend their time babysitting the walking minigun. I certainly wouldn't if I were them, it's boring as hell.
That's why 6v6 is better. A singular tank feels disgusting. If the tank dies, the entire team is hindered. With 2/2/2, if a single tank dies, you at least got a back up and will be able to push. Blizzard's MOBA mentality is utter garbage.
The issue is the first time you win in a team fight, the entire enemy team will switch to counter the tank. Then it’s just 4v5 the rest of the game with your team saying tank diff. It’s basically Rock v paper / paper / paper / paper / and paper.
6v6 would honestly help + allow other tanks/interplay/teams to take space better. The old "What do you want to shoot shields all day?" excuse just seems eh to me considering how a ton of characters now have more mobility, options, and the maps allow for more flanking to make this less of an issue.
Fuck no I don’t want to deal with double shield sigma and rein. This will make most non flanking/non mobility dps useless except maybe bastion. If they reduce the hp of shield then sigma and especially rein becomes unplayable by themselves
If sheilds are a problem in 6s they should have just nerfed them. Usually when something like that happens too, its in part due to supports enabling it. Shields dont regen the user's health after all.
@herohonda4183 I feel you and think that's fair for how they've currently set up all the tanks since yes reverting back to 6v6 would mean that current tanks would most likely get nerfed. However, having an extra tank more than makes up for that and allows for more dynamic compositions (e.g., Ball and Zarya could help out Rein/Sigma) and more importantly, help take the pressure off the one tank player who is expected to be the anchor and engage. This in turn opens up more people to take up the tank role and improve if they have a buddy to lean on which is only good for the community. This also allows healers to be more vulnerable for DPS since they'd have to cover multiple tanks/each other instead of just stacking to one, giving DPS more options to disrupt teams considering that they again would most likely not get rolled back with the presence of another tank on the field, allowing them to still use their new damage boosts, mobility, new flanking routes, etc.
Something I like about Pig pen is that it can be placed behind enemies after a hook to cut out their escape if they survive the hook, it feels really good to use.
5v5 deadass ruined this game and im not even joking. This game was made from the ground up with 2 tanks in mind, and all the shit they've tried to rework over the years to make up for that one missing tank is a bandaid over a gunshot wound.
Even worse, it was designed from the ground up with the knowledge that, since there were no hero limits, people might pick multiple tanks. OW1 balancing was garbage, but the switch to 5v5 and how utterly abysmal OW2 balancing is has completely ruined it.
As long as there is only 1 person in a role, counter swapping will always be prevalent and that solo role is always gonna feel more pressure than the others. 6v6 as a format was not something wrong with the game. The issue was abandoning ow1 in a poor balance state for a pve we never got thus having 6v6 end with a bad taste. People's only argument against 6v6 is double shield which was a high end rank problem that can't even exist anymore. Tank is never gonna feel as fun or impactful as the other roles in it's current state
6v6 wasn't wrong but it was very far from good. Having two tanks stalled and wait at choke points was horrible. Depending on the tanks you had on the team gameplay could be clunky and everywhere. Rock paper scissors(counter playing) was a thing. Oh yea Rein zarya(and few other metas).... Bunker... I personally didn't mind having either at first during ow2 release but now 5v5 is better to have when u take into place the new heroes coming, new modes. Reworks. Having 6v6 rn would be horrible
@@Watchmethroww counter playing was a thing however it did not feel like you HAVE to switch off as your 2nd tank can compensate for that by countering for you. Now it just feels like a game of fight and switch, fight and switch over and over and over until the game ends. Overwatch is a clunky and everywhere game as you said. Its not a tactical shooter like valorant, its a chaotic mess and it will always be like that. The reworks are also only in the game because of 5v5 if 5v5 wasnt a thing half the reworks wouldnt need to be made. you're also missing a great point here, heroes such as bastion and ana thrive in 5v5 and are basically MUST picks as theres only 1 tank to punish now incomparison to two. E.g you are playing rein and are getting sprayed down by bastion and your shield is basically permanently down because you are the only tank and theres noone to compensate and switching wont really help as you being tank you are the biggest target therefore bastion will naturally focus you. Same with ana and her anti nade; anti nade will debuff the only tank and since theres only 1 tank then the whole team just focuses them and they die most of the time leading to a lost fight
Stubborn blizzard. Instead of making it easier and going back to 6v6 , they want to rework basically every hero at this point , still miss the mark and waste time. We probably would’ve had another 4 heroes at launch if they didn’t waste dev time and resources doing all these reworks. To balance out this terrible format that is 5v5, they made major and minor ability changes to the following Doom, orisa, 2 hog reworks( first was his ult change at launch) Winston, bastion, cass, echo, Mei , 2 sombra reworks, brig, mercy, zen. Also changes to hanzo and widow to be in 5v5. Apparently we still need changes to Ana, kiri, bap, illiari, and others to make heroes more viable like ball and Reinhardt. Mauga isn’t out yet but he already needs a kit change. That’s just ridiculous. One year into this game and we are still debating and wondering on what to do of fixing this mess smh.
You know what, they have zero clue what they are doing. A trap! Wooow Edit: 01:00 min. If they dont change him, why is this good at all? They call this a rework but it isn't. Adding a NEW ability is not a rework. It's completly for the trash can. Hog with better survivability? Nope, the same crap.
They should test everything out until they find the perfect combination. But I think 7v7 might be hard for supports. Like how would they manage to heal 2 tanks and 3 dps.
I do think that the damage reduction nerf on "Take a Breather" was pretty significant, but I think the other aspect about the ability that no one seems to be talking about is that the HP5 of "Take a Breather" is much slower than the old iteration. Those two nerfs together is what makes the ability feel worse overall. If it was just one of those two nerfs or the other, I dont think he would feel as poor at tanking as he does right now.
Literally an unfixable problem that will always exist in 5v5. If double shield (which was partly an orisa problem and she doesn’t even have a shield anymore mind you) is still a problem, just nerf the shields or change how sigma and rein work a bit. And then there we go. The game is playable again
So good dps + self-heal + 1 shot + stun + pull enemies closer + highest health + best knockback ultimate + trap (slow and damage) and now he escapes too? Crazy
If Hog becomes tanky though, he'll be entirely oppressive. He has the strongest ability of all Tanks, his hook, and a very reliable one shot again. With very, very high damage to enemy Tanks. He has to be a glass cannon. But honestly.. He should just be reworked into a DPS. He has no business being a Tank any more.
As much of a "solution" as that sounds, the queue times would be horrondeous. Imagine having to find not only people that only want to play sigma, orisa, rein etc but also people that only want to play doom, ball, hog etc while also trying to matchmake around the same mmr. maybe if the game had an abundance of main and off tanks while also having a huge amount of people playing like 2016-2017, it could be possible but there's always that risk of not having enough players at any point and having an outcry about queue times.
@@charleshaines9715 yeah you could do that. it might create the problem of two main tank players or off tank players going into a lobby together and one person not being able to pick from their hero pool. It's not a big issue cause you could suck it up and play another tank like ow1 except in ow1 you could go two main or off if that's what they wanted. disabling some of the roaster for the players depending on who picked first would probably make a lot of people tilt and throw just like one tricks do now but in a bigger scale.
I wish we would stop with this tank beats tank and just make it so each tank has buffs vs their hard counters so they can only be soft counters instead. Examples: - Dva having a buff vs beam weapons. (Yes, you can't stop the beam damage still but it means she isn't hard countered now) - Hog having a buff vs CC/anti-nade that negates half the duration of CC on him. (So now you aren't hard countered but the weakness still exists/you can play through it easier) Or just have your team recognize the weak points. Such as see a bastion when you have a hog? THEN FOCUS THE BASTION SO YOUR TANK CAN DO THEIR JOB! It pains me when people say the tank should always be the one to adjust....
In OW1 I only played tank (DVA).. but in OW2, I hate tanks.. it's just not fun anymore.. I want the 2nd tank back... preferably as a separate role “off-tank”
I mean this was expected with only 1 Tank in OW2- the Tank role really just comes down to Rock Paper Scissors to which tank Counters who. Also, Ana just hard counters most tanks but those Support nerfs didn't address any of that as well...
Hog changes are a nothing burger until they balance this season. Holy jesus its just a big rock paper scissors match with heals and tank(anna, kiriko, orisa, sigma)
The rework is pretty much what I expected they would do. he has the same play style as he always had and fills the same purpose they just took a slightly different route to get there. You still have no way to project the team or mitigate team damage. You still live and die by the hook. Just your combo to get picks is different now.
If the main issue with 6v6 was the Double Shield meta, then why didn't they just make it so there can't be two shield Tanks on one team? For example, if one player picks Sigma then all the other shield Tanks will be locked, so the other Tank player will have to pick a non-shield hero like Dva, Roadhog, Zarya, Ball, and so on. It feels like we spent a whole year going through all the balance issues the transition to 5v5 led to; Support abilities that became oppressive against one Tank, Snipers rising in power because of less protection (one Tank used to be able to protect their team while the other goes Winston, Dva or Ball and dives the sniper), and trying to make the Tank role feel good to play without the second Tank.
honestly I expected this rework to be a whole bunch of nothing but this is the first time I actually like playing hog. the trap seems mundane on paper but you can do so much with it, it has made hog ten times more involved. it gives more agency and decision making rather than just relying on flanking and doing the one shot combo over and over again.
Tanking in 5v5 is not going to work . The tanks need to be complimented by another hero to be interesting . 6v6 was so much better for overwatch , especially tanks.
Hook could pull hog and the target together, applying a small AOE knockup when they collide. This could give opportunity for some crazy dives if you are good at it.
Perhaps I hadn't been playing the hog rework very well, but one other thing I noticed is that because his primary fire does more consistent damage, you're going to be attempting to shoot people more, so you need to reload a lot more. The 6 ammo gets depleted extremely quickly. Its like if dva had to reload every 10 shots. The reload itself isn't necessarily the issue, but the fact that he doesn't have any means of protection while reloading frequently makes it worse so he's even more susceptible to damage. Other tanks that have to reload may have a shield or mobility so they can not worry about it as much. I think either he needs a. more ammo, b. faster reload speed and/or c. auto reload during take a breather. Overall the rework seemed weak to me, but its a lot more fun and dynamic with the pig pen so I like it overall.
We have the same tank issues with Muaga and Hog. Tanks that need a ton of resources to keep alive and who have to spend excess resources to secure kills for them to be stolen with 1 cooldown.
What if they give him like passive 20% damage reduction but only if you shoot his belly he would not be damage reduced from behind but he would from the front This would make roadhog more tanky and give his 50% damage reduction on take a breather back
@@jordanayoub4156 actually, it reduce only boops and pulls, but not stuns in general. Sleep is reduced on tanks, but this is a characteristic of the ability, not a tanks passive.
I think the issue with tanks is Overwatch is Overwatch players will never be happy. To many different opinions some opposed to others. No matter the balance or rework the devs make for every player happy with the changes another will threaten to uninstall
@@bladeclanhalo3 i know, but burst damage should be more a DPS thing. Hog can have other ways todo that, like sig or orisa,they both have wYs to mitigate damage in general, CC and upcoming bullets, meanwhile hog have sustain + his damage (what cannot be so great without brake the game). forgot to mention that they both, orisa and sig, have stuns/boops that helps to keep enemies away. I know they are pretty different heros(the ones i mention and hog) but i feel these are the only ones you can feel that you are doing something without be broken, while some Brawl tanks(like rein and hog) you doesn't.
The tanking problem is pretty bad. Zarya and Orisa all the time. The Hog rework is fun, i really like it. But i KINDA disagree. KINDA. Healing had peaks and valleys from the other Hog. But Hog 2.0 has a higher floor and lower celling on survivability. I find myself playing more like a JunkerQueen, hiding between cover more and surviving a lot. Maybe i have just been playing against bad players lol.
6v6 was simply better for the game and until they bring it back the tank role will always feel like shit. They need to go back to crafting supports like mercy and lucio instead of OW2 supports where they do everything in one. Supports should have utility like ana, lucio, zen that help the team push or focus fire or be allowed to play more awareness and game sense characters like mercy and lifeweaver. Supports need to have a clear weakness, to which the new one usually don't. Tanks need to have majority of the cc. DPS needs to be allowed to dps instead of being outdamaged in their role by the rest of the cast. DPS should usually have glass cannons (high dmg and high mobility, but low health), moderate damage with moderate mobility, or high (consistent) dmg with low mobility. I love the game but it's truly shit. Tank is rock paper, scissors. DPS is either enabling your tank by playing something cringe or using a one shot character. Support is stlll busted, too hard to kill and does too much overall healing (just as much as OW1, even with one less tank) and now self heal. The game has no competitive integrity. I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but what are the major goals to actually make this game enjoyable.
It is a major support problem, hear me out: when in 6v6 the supports had to heal 4 people so, it was way easier as an individual player to find openings to kill someone. Now, supports have to heal one less tank but the overall healing output has stayed the same and the saving abilities have drastically increased thus leaving very little opportunity to kill anyone. Hog and Mauga perfectly highlight this issue. Supports have been way too overturned, but nerfing the cooldowns is not the solution, the overall healing output has to be nerfed. Also, some abilities need to be rethinked, ana nade should become a heal reduction, Suzu should only target 1 person so you have to choose who to save and not deny entire ultimates, LW does insane amounts of healing and has 225hp while having a ton of mobility, I won’t even start with baptiste, illari is a disguised DPS with a DPS ultimate. Yes, we wanted supports to be fun but not to this extend, this is just ridiculous. Remember, it is way easier to heal someone that it is to kill them. Tank is the most unfun role right now.
incorrect. the healing has stayed the same, damage numbers have increased heavily, which is why saving abilities have become more prevalent. you watch too much flats if you think healing is a problem in this game, because factually its not, its been the same for years, the only thing thats changed is the amount of damage. suzu and grip wouldnt need to be as good as they are if the TTK in this game hadnt basically halved. healing cannot even remotely keep up with the damage in the game and thats literally what its designed to do. genji, bastion, sym and sojourn are the highest played characters in GM. genji can burst any squishy with ease, bastion does 360 dps, sym does 180dps and sojourn can kill people with a few bullets and a right click. healing this is simply not possible. if you want to nerf healing, damage numbers need to be cut hard
@@bladeclanhalo3 I hate when people think of GM as the benchmark. GM accounts for less than 1% of the playerbase, if you think that balance changes should be made based on GM players, then you are ruining the experience for 99% of the playerbase. I am not implying to balance based on bronze either, but the majority of the playerbase (85-90%) lies in diamond-plat-gold. I say it again, it is extremely easier to heal people that it is to kill them. If you don’t see this, you are delusional. Supports have the HIGHEST queue times right now for the first time in 7 years, if that does not speak to you, I don’t know what else will. I am support player btw (D3). Don't make conclusions based on number alone, yes, on paper, damage numbers outdo healing, but the experience of it is entirely different, just because it is way easier to land heals than shots. it is like saying that Mauga will dominate the game just because on paper he does extreme amounts of damage.
@@georgioszampoukis1966if you're having difficulties killing people in the current state of them game then you should stop playing dps. mercy healing for a grand 50hp per second doesnt do shit against the 180 dps soldier. support queues are high because the meta is dogshit. you either play orisa and dva for tank, and for support you either need to have god aim with ashe/sojourn or be able to 1v1 everyone as genji. half the dps are useless. im a shit genji and my aim is either i hit everything or bronze, im not consistent enough to play them. i was GM in ow1 on DPS before i quit, its currently masters 5 as i dont play it. my tank is also masters 5 as the only tank i enjoy playing is hog, and he's still the worst character in the game, so i play support where im GM2
@@bladeclanhalo3 you are making my point, but we will start going in loops here. People quit playing DPS because supports have become way too oppressive. It takes high skill to kill someone, but other than ana, it takes very low skill to heal someone. Don't judge the performance of a hero based on paper stats, it is like saying that Mauga will dominate the game because on paper he can do extreme amounts of damage. Also, saying that soldier can do 180 dps assumes that this soldier is having 100% accuracy, which won't ever happen. t500 soldiers have about 60% accuracy while the average soldier has about 40-45, that means the actual dps of soldier lies in the 70-100 range dps. Only exception to this are snipers, widow and hanzo can indeed destroy people, but you won't see that happening often below Masters. I admire the skill of people playing in GM, but they often have no clue on what the experience is on lower ranks, which, again, make for more than 99% of the playerbase
i think the best way for overwatch to fix this while not going back to double shield metas and such is to go back to 6v6 but make tanks two seperate roles maintanks/shield tanks as one role queue and then off tanks/ non-shield tanks as a different role queue.
As a doom/hog main, i really love this rework, but as mentioned the dmg reduction could use a bit of tweaking up to 40 or 45 percent reduction. Not sure tho
Hog could use a way to protect his team mates. Compared to all other tanks (except ball who suffers from the same problem) he’s really selfish for a tank. I’d give him some AoE passive to reduce incoming damage to team mates that are near or a small over health. Would also fit his lore as a body guard, stay near him amd he protects you.
Honestly though if every tank was like that we wouldn't have as much variety, now both Queen and Mauga are AoE team-buff tanks who need to play around the team, Dva is made to peel for her team, Winton dives with his team, Rein... dies on cooldown. So, trying to allow Hog to be this selfish tank is kind of what makes Hog Hog, allowing him to flank off the side and do whatnot is kinda what makes him unique, I think it's fine to have a tank with that sorta playstyle even if it isn't the best competitively.
No. Hog should go in and get picks, not hold his teamates hands in the backline. For a tank to do anything they need to have the threat of killing players.
@@Georgian502 That depends on the team comp and the play style that would arise from this change. Like for example reaper could benefit alot from having a small damage reduction or over health and could brawl with hog picking off targets that get hooked.
Getting a kill with the hook should cause a massive blood spray that heals teammates it rains onto. Think Ultrakill healing mechanics. It encourages hooking an enemy into your grouped-up team for a focus fire kill, but isn't AoE healing on cooldown.
It's undeniable that the reworked Hog can command presence on the field more, without being oppressive. He may not do so enough in some people's view, but he certainly does so more now than he did before this rework.
Tanks really do need a massive shift, they are the ones who create space, they should be the ones with cc, while DPS should have the damage abilities, and support to mobility, also having one tanks means yes they are supposed to be able to “Tank” damage, but the problem is that they become almost too oppressive, honestly I really really do think they need to bring back 6v6, that way they can massive nerf the tanks to make them not as oppressive and buff the supports to make JT that they can provide more for the team to make up for the tank nerfs
Both of my favorite characters/mains are tanks, and I haven't even queued tank a single time this entire season (and most of last) save for the few times I played mauga. It feels awful. I don't even have to do well for the entire enemy team to counterpick me even in quick play lmao. I liked 5v5 at first but now I'm missing 6v6. The only times I ever want to play tank are in things like open queue now lmfao.
i get the heal change and i think its good BUT removing the oneshot AND the secondary fire is like removing the 2 most fun parts of the hero and then what are we left with? a tank that has a radom ahh pattern for his primary fire, the hook (only fun part at this point), the heal that is cool i guess but still not fun, and the ulti that most of the times gets you killed. i love blizzard
@@jada_9827 i agree with you, but also why completly destroy a character only because people cry about it (hog) and make minor twicks to other characters that in my opinion shoudnt have the oneshot (hanzo, widow) i would argue that hanzo and widow are more frustrating than hog, but they didnt get nerfed to the ground
@@aquaenjoyer1612 I find hanzo and widow extremely unfair and unpleasant to play against too, especially widow Like if someone picks cassidy nobody cares, if someone picks widow the whole team needs to adjust or at very least be way more on guard
Honestly sounds more like a probmen with Ana/Discord rather than tanks themselves. News flash, creating abilities that cripple sustainability and healing, which are the entire point of *2 of the 3 roles in the game* is a stupid idea.
Wanna know how you fix this issue? Bring back 6v6........ Trying to have a single tank, which is arguably the MOST important role in the game, while bringing in more characters and also keep them OP as fuck for them to have an impact, is just a bad model. DPS feel like they get rolled, tanks have no synergies to play off, supports get less peel. Id like for Blizzard to admit that the model is flawed and that 6v6 was better from a gameplay mode. It only needed a god damn balancing patch, which pretty much was OW2. Whenever someone say "but if i had one bad tank we just lost" i cant help but think "yea but now if you get one bad tank you wont get ANY help". Also, the reason people didnt que as tank in OW1 was because the BALANCING WAS CRAP. They were literally unable to change orisa and sigma, removing the shield and turning them into off tanks. They just needed to tweak the numbers, making it impossible to sit behind a shield all the time, or add extra shield damage to a few DPS heroes abilities for a counter play.
An idea I just had, what if Take A Breather, instead of just healing, split it between healing and gaining temp hp, the amount of health gained would still be the same but like 75% would be healing, and 25% would be a decaying temp health boost, so when you get anti naded for example, you would still have some decent mitigation, on top of the 30% dmg reduction.
Still feel like they should have gave Hog a car door as a shield. You can get head shots still, but blocks most of the damage. And when the shield is about done, he can chuck it at someone for a stun. 😂
Stylosa you clearly haven't kept up with the game enough to know what you're talking about because Orisa doesn't really counter hog anymore and other things but please stop saying these things before asking a higher ranked tank player like Flats or Emongg or someone who understands more than most tank players who thinks about it and isnt as reactionary.
The only problem with this argument, is that a lot of this is thinking that it’s always a 1v1 (tank v tank)… but it’s all about your team. Many times you pick a counter tank and the enemy team just had a better counter support, dps that your “counter tank” has no effect. So it’s all about how your team is working together, especially when you get to plat/diamond.
I think they could of made hook chargable alt fire which slows you down while charging. Hook no longer stuns you if you have a movement ability like roll. Charging increases range. Keep the health pack but it make you faster after use but you can only recharge it by nerfing your healing by 30 percent while touching the ability to balance this you can fire while healing and your hook charges faster while healing. Whole hog is now an ability replacing hook and the new ult is bodyguard Your teamates give you the damage they take but you get temp armour
Could be absolutely miserable if done wrong, but I actually like a lot of the ideas you have here. I've always had this mental image of hog spinning hook around like a slingshot while charging it up, so I love that. Bodyguard is a cool idea (if you only absorb a percentage of teammate damage, all of it would be absurd, and I might restrict it to line of sight?) but maybe just sorta fuse it with whole hog instead of replacing it? Like, have it make your main weapon full auto and high knockback like whole hog, and have damage absorbed from teammates refill/overflow the magazine. Bootleg whole hog, now synergized with the new function. Otherwise, I personally like the idea of being able to either use your heal on yourself or toss it on the ground, and giving it a little bit of AoE healing+damage reduction+speed boost for your team and slow+damage+healing reduction for enemies either way - not huge numbers since it would have so many effects and certainly not the full effect, just enough to help you either push enemies away from somewhere, fortify it for your team, or push in as a group. Maybe hold it down to heal, let go to toss it out, the duration stays the same either way so you can use some for yourself and then toss it out? Would probably need to work like the old version, with appropriate number changes. Alternatively for hook, you could have it be cancelable and give it some more momentum on enemies it hits - if you cancel before it hits it pushes them back like brig flail, maybe with a little radial push like pharah missile if it hits an enemy or wall, and if you cancel it after it hits but before the enemy gets to you they keep going for a bit - best paired with better hook control and maybe a brief hinder? Hinder could be a decent alternative for a oneshot too, since you could just extend the time before hog can fire after hooking and leave more teamplay and counterplay - plus some potential skillshots if you cancel hook early and toss them towards yourself to finish the animation earlier and get a cleaner combo. Really, I think he just needs some more team interaction and gameplay options - as is, you just kinda use every ability the same way most of the time: heal when you're low/taking heavy fire, shoot whenever but especially after hook, hook the weakest/most important enemy either to you or off the map, whole hog to take space and maybe cheese a kill or two. Pig pen just gets thrown in before a hook now, and I think he could do better.
I think he needs 1) a unique punch like zen, his might bump an enemy back like zen or maybe slow them or something? And 2) instead of pig pen, give him a jump smash dive move like winston, but doesnt go nearly as high and sucks enemies into it when you hit them
Instead of a belly flop, honestly I would have given Hog a big boot. Essentially like a lucio boop but fires the target at a consistent, fixed arc. Hog is kinda meant to be big and brawly, but back with his one-shot he really was just kind of a hook bot. Adjusting his weapon so he fires faster but does a little less with every shot and adding in this boot could make him much more of a big brawler that is good at countering engage while relying on his hook to engage for himself... and making him much more than the one trick pony that he used to be. What the boot would really do for him is give him combos: Hook > Shoot > Boot > Shoot or Shoot > Boot > Hook > Shoot > Melee. Hook a person, turn them to a wall and boot them into the wall to get more damage from your combo, or boot them into your team. Boot the winston off of your supports. He could even keep his one-shot combo, since that combo would give the enemy opportunities to be saved or press their defensive buttons, which is something that made hog so frustrating before.
The best thing about overwatch is also the worst thing about overwatch. I truly feel that the reason Overwatch is dying and will die as a game is because of the rock paper scissors hero switching garbage. Most people, not just casuals, just want to play a character they are in the mood for, and not have to constantly switch and be required to learn all heroes in order to counter and be decent at the game. There are very obvious and apparent reasons why no other game exists like overwatch that allows you to switch characters whenever you want.
Blizzard keeps releasing tanks whose main mode of survivability is self-healing and then wonder why the tank struggles to get anything done while Anti-nade exists.
The reason Sigma is so good is because he can do damage and block it at the same time. Tanks like hog can’t do damage while blocking. Sigma v. hog is like a 6v5. Sigma accomplishes the tasks of tanking and dps at the same time, it’s like he has the combined effectiveness of 2 heroes.
Yeah I started to main him after feeling guilty about playing Hog in season 2. Great hero. Made me hate brawl tanks. It’s so boring spending most of my time getting to the enemy while being mowed down
Plus he has a 2nd blocking ability that fully stops any projectile AND has CC.
Any shield tank has that kind of capability. Overwatch 1 orisa was the QUEEN of bunker comp. Her shield was near undeletable and she was able to CC and do damage like crazy. A face tank back then, and honestly still, is perceived as a "off tank". The tank you play alongside the shield tank. The off tank alone is at best a bulky damage hero. Blizzard thinks shields are healthy so off tanks that just face shield damage will be the norm from now on.
ive been destroying Sig with the new hog
People were sleeping on Sigma ever since OW 2 released
They could have solved the old 6v6 "problems" and avoided the 5v5 problems by just making specific slots for main and off tank and a team could only choose one of each.
You didn't even need to do that. Double shield was only strong because cc was so strong. Dive bypasses shields, but cc oppressed dive to heavily in OW1. Reducing cc alone would have made double shield far less strong.
This issue with tanks is directly because of the tragic decision of 5v5. I had the same problem when I was trying to play Mauga. The other team picks a tank he's bad against, and bam, you can't play him. It's this sort of rock-paper-scissors matchup, but in OW1 it wasn't as big a problem, because you had someone else who could go rock if you went paper.
Rose tinted glasses. Its not like the other tank always played what you wanted them to
The reason 6v6 is gone is because one team would choose orisa/sigma and the other team would choose hog/ball. The community ruined 6v6 and blizz got rid of it.
@@BTRshowThey could have added an off tank role queue so that comps like orisa sigma and hog ball were not possible but as always blizz just chose the lazy solution and made the game worse.
@@BrofUJu You monkeys STILL try to say it's rose-tinted glasses?
@@BTRshow Then nerf them you idiot or add a role specifically for offtanks. Them removing one outright IS the reason for almost every balance problem in OW2.
The problem with the tanks in this game is that they were designed originally with a 2 tank system. The tanks that are performing better currently were main tanks in Overwatch 1, and the secondary/support tanks (like Hog, Zarya, and Ball) are or were underperforming because they weren’t designed to be a primary tank. Blizzard now is trying to backtrack on those tanks to make them capable of tanking in a 1 tank system. That’s why there have been major power swings with those tanks when they have tried to balance them, since they can’t tank the greatest because they weren’t designed to.
Edit: I get it, tanks are more balanced now. Point is, more of the tanks that were off tanks in Overwatch 1 have had more trouble with proper balance and have had more significant balance swings.
DVA/Sig are performing okay as not ex Main tanks
Zarya is still really good imo
@@RyeCA Dva performs well.. till all the beam heroes come out or just a decent Zarya, still showing the issues of 1 tank rock paper scissor
it's not really secondary tanks specifically that are struggling
it's the tanks that were heavily designed around 6v6 that are struggling
like rein, ball, hog.
@@craignp007That's another 5v5 issue, it's too easy to counter the one tank. Not necessarily a DVa or specific tank problem. It just affects some tanks more than others. Which is why 6v6 was better if only they did some experimenting to prevent double shield (plus reworks were always an option, look at Orisa)
Another way we've discussed to make things better was just introduce an "off tank role" and split up shield tanks with non-shield tanks and make it so you can only have one of each. Hog and many tanks thrive in open queue much more. The game almost feels better there these days.
Love that idea of splitting shields and non shields they should’ve done that in the beginning but I guess it’s too late now
yeah, I thought the same thing. They should at least experiment with the idea as an arcade mode. That way it isn't really affecting the main game and they can look at study the effects of it.
Open queue is better. But still suffers from not being the "main" competitive mode. A lot of throwing after the losing the first fight
Fully agree with open queue being better, it's a mode in which i've felt much less stressed out overall.
I personally believe 5v5 was okay for open queue, but faced issues in role queue because of its role imbalance with tanks being completely isolated.
Find myself playing more and more open queue when I actually want to enjoy playing tanks
You know how people say this game is like Rock-Paper-Scissors? The single tank structure has made this a reality when playing tank. No matter what tank you may play, the other team will switch to the counter tank, then you switch, then they switch, so on and so forth.
The previous structure allowed the two tanks to pick heroes that complimented eachother to make up for each others weaknesses. While it wasn't perfect, it felt a hell of a lot better since there was room for creative and interesting compositions.
Exactly! I've said this since day one
I don't really feel like this. If I lose I lost because of a skill gap. So what if they counter
Yeah, counter picking is so boring
True in ow1 when you lost you felt like it was because of enemy team being better and not because tank refused to switch
@@frozenvodka don't do it.
This has been the issue since DAY ONE of OW2, 6v6 needs to come back, they can rework shield but they cant rework what happens when someone counterpicks your tank.
EXACTLY! the 1v1 tank puts too much pressure on the tank role. Off tanks are hard to balance, and supports are too strong. They should have just reworked shields and cc but kept it as 6v6
If they do 6v6.. they need roles for shield tank and off tank!?!..
@@hunterpope9028 not really
I think they can do it now and be fine. Think about it Rammatra doesn't care about shields, Orisa ult goes through shields... I think double shields wouldn't be that bad anymore and with the fact this game is still young and will keep getting stuff they are in a position to where double shields could be less effective over all.
@@rossjones8656Soujourn also ignores shields
If only there was some kind of variety with more than one tank in each team
hmmm only if you could pair hog and sig or like zar to make up for what the weakness of the hero i wonder how that would play out who know though 5v5 is just the greatest and didnt bring 7000000 more problems
If only enough people had wanted to play tank in 6v6. They didn’t though, that was why they changed to 5v5.
@@matthewcarley4600 When playing flex in comp I got tank basically all but once over two dozen or so games this season. People still aren't that hyped to play tank proportionally. And that's with even more tank heroes available. Doesn't seem like they actually made the role better.
edit: the or so could be like 3 to 5 dozen if we include all my time in ow 2.
@@matthewcarley4600 wrong they abondoned the first game and never actually balanced it, lost a lot of core people and changed to 5v5 and a new shop for only god knows why.
@@firstnamelastname9237 Frankly they increased the pressure on the one tank. That was the main thing keeping people from playing tank. Tank Anxiety.
Every time I've queued for comp in the past week I've seen Support with a queue time of 3 min, Damage with 2, and Tank with 1. That's all you need to know about how people feel about playing Tank right now
My support q was 15 min last time I played. In q longer than playing the game
Yep. Recently I was queued for all three for a while, and for at least 10 games in a row I got tank every time.
@@jbeers8408isn’t it just amazing when you wait in queue for 15 minutes on support and you instantly get rolled in less than 5 minutes? 😄
Same here. 9 out of 10 I always get tank when qued for all roles. It's like nobody wants to play tank. It's also the most stressful to play. If you lose its your fault, if you win it's the dmg who allegedly carry even though tank literally did more damage and eliminations.
Especially Support need another nerf as Supp main who play also Tank i realise how strong the role become
Ana, Mercy need heal nerf last Patch Ana got 1s and mercy nothing.
This was not a "Support nerf" what we wan't.
I am (was) an Ana main. I haven't played since season 2, but I've thought ever since OW2 went 5v5, that Ana's nade needs to reduce the amount of healing on anti-naded targets rather than completely preventing it.
The single tank can't compete with anti-heal and Blizz keeps trying to balance tanks around that single ability rather than fix the root of the problem.
Blizzard doesn't try to balance the game, they have a wheel consisting of each hero in the game, on every single balance change, they roll the wheel 2-3 times and use another wheel to decide if they are going to nerf or buff said character. This is literally how balancing goes.
Anti is not the problem
Kiriko exist.
Many Supports need nerf on healing, Ana nade need reduce how long you get the debuffed/buffed time
Kiriko CD Nerf
Mercy Healbeam Nerf
@@muysli.y1855 not a single support needs a healing nerf and making this claim shows you're low skilled and watch flats. the only thing that needs a hard nerf in this game is damage. the amount of characters who can kill a 200hp target in under a second is ridiculous, supports literally cannot even try to keep up, thats why things like suzu and grip exist
Tank combos is what made every tank viable in some way. You could cover the flaws of one tank with the strength of another tank. Same for every other role in the game. It boggles my mind that people don’t see how so many of the issues created in OW2 stem from changing to 5v5. We wouldn’t even need most of these reworks if they had just stayed with 6v6. It takes dev time away from new heroes and maps, while making tanking terrible in general.
The problem was Orisa and Sigma with double shield and the FIre&Shield. It was enough to reduce number of shields or the values.
@@HalysonFernandes Then split the tank category by Tank and Off Tank. Doom, Queen, Roadjog, and Ball offer virtually no protection.
We wouldn't need those reworks but we would need others. None of the problems OW has come from the format, it"s all balancing, 6v6 and 5v5 have their own rules to make tanking good, they got it right at the start of ow1 for the most part, but then failed miserably over time, 5v5 is a middle ground but way easier to fix than 6v6, specially with how many of the tank matchups can feel very fair depending on the team comp. Obviously there are unfair matchups but all they have to do is work on them over time to remove counter picking (which is totally doable), one tank can work and the general feeling when ow2 launched was that tank was the most fun role in the whole game, what changed since back then? Balancing, that's all, it was still 5v5 and it worked well.
Or you’d want to play Winston on a high ground main map and the other tank picks hog… It’s absurd to suggest people wanted to play tank in 6v6, it was awful, the lack of tank players is why they changed
@@HalysonFernandes Simpler solution is to just split tank just as damg said. Even before the 5v5 that seemed the more logical one. ANd by the time I was arriving the double shield almost never showed up in most games, and when it did, it didn't go any better than anything else.
They did with Roadhog what Square Enix did to tanks in FFXIV, they're making changes to have them appeal to DPS players and the main stuff they're doing is making them less tanks and more DPS.
Let's also not forget Roadhog was designed as an OFFTANK BRUISER IN A GAME WITH A 2ND TANK, so he will literally never fully fit 5v5 because he's not there to tank and defend.
At this point they'll just revert to oneshot hog and forget about him
Ff14 and OW tanks got to where they are for completely different reasons. Tanks in FF14 got there because Tanks were complaining that they were underperforming in terms of potential DPS, so they were turned into that. The move from having more tank responsibility was because they changed the way raids are designed, which allowed for more creative and more difficult fights. I can see why you would make the connection on the surface but they are 2 completely different situations and not at all comparable. And no matter how many tanks on FF14 complain, the vast majority of the community asked for those changes, which is why they happened. That is also a huge difference from FF14 and OW.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Tanks never complained, i was one. It reached that point because they were simplifying everything and one of the core things simplified was the tank role, making aggro a matter of "turn on tank stance" and that's it, that's why they call them blue dps.
Don't try to talk about something you know shit about.
I picked Dark Knight because I wanted a big sword
@@doublelizard767 That's how a majority of FF14 players pick a class. Which I think is great fro the game, "hardcore" players cry about it, like they cry about everything, thinking they are above everyone else for being "harcore". Same thing goes for WoW and pretty much every game with a hardcore playerbase, like Souls games as well. But being able to play the class you want simply because it looks cool or its fun will always be a good thing.
It's almost like 6v6 was better
It was
@@seanspursssthat's what he implied
Kremlin bots will tell you 5v5 is better
@@KraanFanFan oh really i couldnt tell
Na… they don’t know to fix tanks
i miss 6 v 6 tbh. Lol. Having the extra tank was pretty nice most of the time. They coulda just removed or lessened shields (they already did, so...) and kept it 6 v 6 in my opinion...
Hog fundamentally, design-wise, is still just an off-tank crammed into the role of a main-tank. The experience in the video matches the one I had in the game, as well. 5 vs 5 problems. Already commented on that under a previous video.
You know, here's another crazy idea: on top of damage reduction, why not make Hog grow in size when he uses his breather? Then his teammates could at least hide behind him and use him - quite literally - as a meat shield.
Or, I don't know, bring 6 vs 6 back.
That would be ineffective but hilarious to see
Here here!
They could even make a temporary reduced vision for the enemies like a smoke around him for his team mates when he vapes. SO much lost potential 😭
blows a fat yellow vape cloud yeeeeaaaa@@S3nCh4n
It's almost like 6v6 was better hmmm. Every game now features a feeding hog and supports focusing solely on keeping a tank with low MIT capabilities alive. Terrible!
They should bring back 6v6, where the second tank category are the brawler tanks only (doom, ball, hog, mauga) and balance for that. Also, Ana's nade can be balanced by making it reduce healing taken by 50-75% instead of preventing it entirely. They could also add a cleanse effect to the anti heal, adding another layer of mind games of an Ana mirror.
Why does ana need a clease when kiriko has it already? imagine kiriko and ana on one team with clease abilities. Terribly overpowered
Nah no cleanse for Ana wtf
Not cleanse like Kiriko, just remove the anti heal.@@RyeCA
Doom, Ball = Brawler ??
@@fadimeersinyeah technically doomfist is a dive tank same as Winston,ball,and dva but he can also brawl so basically he’s a hybrid he just can’t brawl as good as like Reinhardt
Blizzard Activision knows for a fact that bringing back 6v6 won’t make the queue times longer at all, a lot of people like 6v6,5v5 and arcade. Also 6v6 has a lot of good things about it like getting to play with their tank friends back again for tank duos, also it’ll bring back the tank interactions or multi character interactions including tanks, not to mention it will make it easier for some teams to peel since there’s another tank that is protecting the backline for your supports and when the enemies are retreating that tank can add more firepower backing up the other tank teammate when pushing onwards. There are a lot of people who likes to play 6v6 more than what other people think. Also a lot of characters can disrupt the two shield tank meta, or 4 shield meta with mei and brig. Like sombra with her hacks, pharah, junkrat, hanzo, mei with her walls to trap enemies and her ultimate, roadhog hooks and ultimate, the tank buster reaper, etc. There are a lot of choices, just that people don’t want to apply the effort and just complain for the sake of chaos and enjoying toxic workplace environments.
@_OtakunGamer_
i 100% agree with everything that you’ve said, if more players are more willing to be open minded to listen to their other teammates solutions, solve the problems using another point of view or angle and generally just start using common sense and logic, we could have an inviting and stress free world for online team co-op pvp games.
As a tank player who quit before 5v5 because i knew it would destroy what I loved about the game, im glad to have been proven right
Same. I keep trying to come back and it was fun when JQ was buffed but ever since then its been pain
I do have +6,6k hours in OW. In my opinion counter swapping in OW2 is cringe af and so exhausting. AND ESPECIALLY AS A TANK PLAYER its so depressing not being able to play what u want. That's why I moved onto 24/7 QP so I can pick whatever. Also 6v6 was so much fun. But that's another chapter
I just want 6v6 back...
Just make the rule of 1 required main and off tank idk...
The only way they can fix tanking is to return to 6v6
I think what's important for Hog is having a place to hook someone, like the well on Illios, so now that he has a trap, he always has a place to put someone.
Yeah he had a place to pull someone that does the same amount of damage as a fall off a map, it’s called your team. It old overwatch if hog got a hook the character should be dead before they make it back to hog the same way he was after his nerfs in ow2 it’s all about team play of team firing
@@GaaraFPS
Teamplay is not reliable in ranked.
@@GaaraFPS Needing to rely on the absolute RNG-fest that is your teammates just to *function* isn't a good thing, IMO.
@@YellowScar2014well said brother! Most of them are drooling on the controller while playing, you never know who you can depend on.
@@virtuerse I wouldn't say most, or that they're drooling on the control. It's just more than I can't expect them to want to spend their time babysitting the walking minigun.
I certainly wouldn't if I were them, it's boring as hell.
That's why 6v6 is better. A singular tank feels disgusting. If the tank dies, the entire team is hindered. With 2/2/2, if a single tank dies, you at least got a back up and will be able to push. Blizzard's MOBA mentality is utter garbage.
The issue is the first time you win in a team fight, the entire enemy team will switch to counter the tank. Then it’s just 4v5 the rest of the game with your team saying tank diff. It’s basically Rock v paper / paper / paper / paper / and paper.
6v6 would honestly help + allow other tanks/interplay/teams to take space better. The old "What do you want to shoot shields all day?" excuse just seems eh to me considering how a ton of characters now have more mobility, options, and the maps allow for more flanking to make this less of an issue.
Fuck no I don’t want to deal with double shield sigma and rein. This will make most non flanking/non mobility dps useless except maybe bastion. If they reduce the hp of shield then sigma and especially rein becomes unplayable by themselves
If sheilds are a problem in 6s they should have just nerfed them. Usually when something like that happens too, its in part due to supports enabling it. Shields dont regen the user's health after all.
@@herohonda4183 Then nerf the shield. Right now, shields get shredded.
@herohonda4183 I feel you and think that's fair for how they've currently set up all the tanks since yes reverting back to 6v6 would mean that current tanks would most likely get nerfed.
However, having an extra tank more than makes up for that and allows for more dynamic compositions (e.g., Ball and Zarya could help out Rein/Sigma) and more importantly, help take the pressure off the one tank player who is expected to be the anchor and engage. This in turn opens up more people to take up the tank role and improve if they have a buddy to lean on which is only good for the community.
This also allows healers to be more vulnerable for DPS since they'd have to cover multiple tanks/each other instead of just stacking to one, giving DPS more options to disrupt teams considering that they again would most likely not get rolled back with the presence of another tank on the field, allowing them to still use their new damage boosts, mobility, new flanking routes, etc.
sigma rein wasnt even that good, people had issue with the orisa sig double shield. It is not that hard to counter double shield. @@herohonda4183
Something I like about Pig pen is that it can be placed behind enemies after a hook to cut out their escape if they survive the hook, it feels really good to use.
5v5 deadass ruined this game and im not even joking. This game was made from the ground up with 2 tanks in mind, and all the shit they've tried to rework over the years to make up for that one missing tank is a bandaid over a gunshot wound.
Even worse, it was designed from the ground up with the knowledge that, since there were no hero limits, people might pick multiple tanks.
OW1 balancing was garbage, but the switch to 5v5 and how utterly abysmal OW2 balancing is has completely ruined it.
As long as there is only 1 person in a role, counter swapping will always be prevalent and that solo role is always gonna feel more pressure than the others. 6v6 as a format was not something wrong with the game. The issue was abandoning ow1 in a poor balance state for a pve we never got thus having 6v6 end with a bad taste. People's only argument against 6v6 is double shield which was a high end rank problem that can't even exist anymore. Tank is never gonna feel as fun or impactful as the other roles in it's current state
6v6 wasn't wrong but it was very far from good. Having two tanks stalled and wait at choke points was horrible. Depending on the tanks you had on the team gameplay could be clunky and everywhere. Rock paper scissors(counter playing) was a thing. Oh yea Rein zarya(and few other metas)....
Bunker... I personally didn't mind having either at first during ow2 release but now 5v5 is better to have when u take into place the new heroes coming, new modes. Reworks. Having 6v6 rn would be horrible
@@Watchmethroww counter playing was a thing however it did not feel like you HAVE to switch off as your 2nd tank can compensate for that by countering for you. Now it just feels like a game of fight and switch, fight and switch over and over and over until the game ends. Overwatch is a clunky and everywhere game as you said. Its not a tactical shooter like valorant, its a chaotic mess and it will always be like that. The reworks are also only in the game because of 5v5 if 5v5 wasnt a thing half the reworks wouldnt need to be made. you're also missing a great point here, heroes such as bastion and ana thrive in 5v5 and are basically MUST picks as theres only 1 tank to punish now incomparison to two. E.g you are playing rein and are getting sprayed down by bastion and your shield is basically permanently down because you are the only tank and theres noone to compensate and switching wont really help as you being tank you are the biggest target therefore bastion will naturally focus you. Same with ana and her anti nade; anti nade will debuff the only tank and since theres only 1 tank then the whole team just focuses them and they die most of the time leading to a lost fight
hogs weakness is that ana is still in the game the way she is
Reminder that 5v5 exists solely for the benefit of OWL.
Its no longer a hindrance. 6v6 has to come back.
This RPS game has been a problem ever since 5v5 started
wake me up when its back to 6v6
Stubborn blizzard. Instead of making it easier and going back to 6v6 , they want to rework basically every hero at this point , still miss the mark and waste time.
We probably would’ve had another 4 heroes at launch if they didn’t waste dev time and resources doing all these reworks.
To balance out this terrible format that is 5v5, they made major and minor ability changes to the following
Doom, orisa, 2 hog reworks( first was his ult change at launch) Winston, bastion, cass, echo, Mei , 2 sombra reworks, brig, mercy, zen. Also changes to hanzo and widow to be in 5v5.
Apparently we still need changes to Ana, kiri, bap, illiari, and others to make heroes more viable like ball and Reinhardt. Mauga isn’t out yet but he already needs a kit change. That’s just ridiculous.
One year into this game and we are still debating and wondering on what to do of fixing this mess smh.
You know what, they have zero clue what they are doing. A trap! Wooow
Edit: 01:00 min. If they dont change him, why is this good at all? They call this a rework but it isn't. Adding a NEW ability is not a rework. It's completly for the trash can. Hog with better survivability? Nope, the same crap.
simple fix : go back to 6v6 so tanks have more room to play around and play different things like the other roles
Miss the two tanks :/ I would have loved 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 3 DPS.
They should test everything out until they find the perfect combination. But I think 7v7 might be hard for supports. Like how would they manage to heal 2 tanks and 3 dps.
i wish orisa could be more defensive like she was in overwatch 1
I do think that the damage reduction nerf on "Take a Breather" was pretty significant, but I think the other aspect about the ability that no one seems to be talking about is that the HP5 of "Take a Breather" is much slower than the old iteration. Those two nerfs together is what makes the ability feel worse overall. If it was just one of those two nerfs or the other, I dont think he would feel as poor at tanking as he does right now.
Bro talking about HP5 like this is smite lol
@@mrdhong2143lol I was bouta say lol I don't even think take a breather lasts 5 seconds😂 bros bouta yell at his sombra for not ganking 💀💀
Literally an unfixable problem that will always exist in 5v5. If double shield (which was partly an orisa problem and she doesn’t even have a shield anymore mind you) is still a problem, just nerf the shields or change how sigma and rein work a bit. And then there we go. The game is playable again
hook should be a grapple if used on the environment! use as an escape/engage, and also would allow some sweet suplex bodyslams.
So good dps + self-heal + 1 shot + stun + pull enemies closer + highest health + best knockback ultimate + trap (slow and damage) and now he escapes too? Crazy
If someone dodges your hook and it hits the environment he could drag himself into the enemy team. Not very good imo.
If Hog becomes tanky though, he'll be entirely oppressive. He has the strongest ability of all Tanks, his hook, and a very reliable one shot again. With very, very high damage to enemy Tanks. He has to be a glass cannon. But honestly.. He should just be reworked into a DPS. He has no business being a Tank any more.
Imagine if they just made Main and Off tanks 2 separate groups, and bring back 6v6
As much of a "solution" as that sounds, the queue times would be horrondeous. Imagine having to find not only people that only want to play sigma, orisa, rein etc but also people that only want to play doom, ball, hog etc while also trying to matchmake around the same mmr. maybe if the game had an abundance of main and off tanks while also having a huge amount of people playing like 2016-2017, it could be possible but there's always that risk of not having enough players at any point and having an outcry about queue times.
@@ashonline77 Just queue as 1 role, and you can't pick those combos. Same way you can't pick the same hero twice.
@@charleshaines9715 yeah you could do that. it might create the problem of two main tank players or off tank players going into a lobby together and one person not being able to pick from their hero pool. It's not a big issue cause you could suck it up and play another tank like ow1 except in ow1 you could go two main or off if that's what they wanted. disabling some of the roaster for the players depending on who picked first would probably make a lot of people tilt and throw just like one tricks do now but in a bigger scale.
I wish we would stop with this tank beats tank and just make it so each tank has buffs vs their hard counters so they can only be soft counters instead.
Examples:
- Dva having a buff vs beam weapons. (Yes, you can't stop the beam damage still but it means she isn't hard countered now)
- Hog having a buff vs CC/anti-nade that negates half the duration of CC on him. (So now you aren't hard countered but the weakness still exists/you can play through it easier)
Or just have your team recognize the weak points. Such as see a bastion when you have a hog? THEN FOCUS THE BASTION SO YOUR TANK CAN DO THEIR JOB! It pains me when people say the tank should always be the one to adjust....
This is like a never ending loop..all Tanks should have armor/shield health
In OW1 I only played tank (DVA).. but in OW2, I hate tanks.. it's just not fun anymore..
I want the 2nd tank back...
preferably as a separate role “off-tank”
I mean this was expected with only 1 Tank in OW2- the Tank role really just comes down to Rock Paper Scissors to which tank Counters who. Also, Ana just hard counters most tanks but those Support nerfs didn't address any of that as well...
Hog changes are a nothing burger until they balance this season. Holy jesus its just a big rock paper scissors match with heals and tank(anna, kiriko, orisa, sigma)
The rework is pretty much what I expected they would do. he has the same play style as he always had and fills the same purpose they just took a slightly different route to get there. You still have no way to project the team or mitigate team damage. You still live and die by the hook. Just your combo to get picks is different now.
If the main issue with 6v6 was the Double Shield meta, then why didn't they just make it so there can't be two shield Tanks on one team? For example, if one player picks Sigma then all the other shield Tanks will be locked, so the other Tank player will have to pick a non-shield hero like Dva, Roadhog, Zarya, Ball, and so on. It feels like we spent a whole year going through all the balance issues the transition to 5v5 led to; Support abilities that became oppressive against one Tank, Snipers rising in power because of less protection (one Tank used to be able to protect their team while the other goes Winston, Dva or Ball and dives the sniper), and trying to make the Tank role feel good to play without the second Tank.
honestly I expected this rework to be a whole bunch of nothing but this is the first time I actually like playing hog.
the trap seems mundane on paper but you can do so much with it, it has made hog ten times more involved.
it gives more agency and decision making rather than just relying on flanking and doing the one shot combo over and over again.
He's more involved as a DPS, which is not what he needed as a TANK.
@@AzureRoxe when will people get over the idea that a tank is always reinhardt with extra steps...
Tanking in 5v5 is not going to work . The tanks need to be complimented by another hero to be interesting . 6v6 was so much better for overwatch , especially tanks.
Hook could pull hog and the target together, applying a small AOE knockup when they collide. This could give opportunity for some crazy dives if you are good at it.
Blizzard wasted an opportunity to give Hog his chainsaw in this rework. Major fumble
Perhaps I hadn't been playing the hog rework very well, but one other thing I noticed is that because his primary fire does more consistent damage, you're going to be attempting to shoot people more, so you need to reload a lot more. The 6 ammo gets depleted extremely quickly. Its like if dva had to reload every 10 shots.
The reload itself isn't necessarily the issue, but the fact that he doesn't have any means of protection while reloading frequently makes it worse so he's even more susceptible to damage. Other tanks that have to reload may have a shield or mobility so they can not worry about it as much. I think either he needs a. more ammo, b. faster reload speed and/or c. auto reload during take a breather.
Overall the rework seemed weak to me, but its a lot more fun and dynamic with the pig pen so I like it overall.
We have the same tank issues with Muaga and Hog. Tanks that need a ton of resources to keep alive and who have to spend excess resources to secure kills for them to be stolen with 1 cooldown.
What if they give him like passive 20% damage reduction but only if you shoot his belly he would not be damage reduced from behind but he would from the front This would make roadhog more tanky and give his 50% damage reduction on take a breather back
Not bad, but 20% might be too big.
Make it like 5 to 10% if its an all the time passive
He’s an off tank in a 1 tank world 😔 they should give him a poison damage area of affect and more armor imo
i think they should just add a passive , to the tanks, that reduce CC in general . Every role is now a DPS with some steroids
I'm not sure if I'm misreading this, but there already IS a tank passive that reduces how effective stuns/sleeps/knockbacks are against them...
@@jordanayoub4156 actually, it reduce only boops and pulls, but not stuns in general. Sleep is reduced on tanks, but this is a characteristic of the ability, not a tanks passive.
@@Neeeeeeeeeto double checked and you are correct
@@jordanayoub4156 im not proud about it, but i check every bit of info i can get about this game 😂
I think the issue with tanks is Overwatch is Overwatch players will never be happy.
To many different opinions some opposed to others.
No matter the balance or rework the devs make for every player happy with the changes another will threaten to uninstall
tanks should be the guys who controls space, so they need to get more health to last longer and CC abilities, not damage as they are adding
hog controls space by his damage, the issue is they've removed a lot of his burst so people just run away
@@bladeclanhalo3 i know, but burst damage should be more a DPS thing. Hog can have other ways todo that, like sig or orisa,they both have wYs to mitigate damage in general, CC and upcoming bullets, meanwhile hog have sustain + his damage (what cannot be so great without brake the game).
forgot to mention that they both, orisa and sig, have stuns/boops that helps to keep enemies away. I know they are pretty different heros(the ones i mention and hog) but i feel these are the only ones you can feel that you are doing something without be broken, while some Brawl tanks(like rein and hog) you doesn't.
Hog needs second defensive ability not some mine that barelly does anything.
Orisa have 2, VERY GOOD ones as well and shes really hard to kill.
The tanking problem is pretty bad. Zarya and Orisa all the time.
The Hog rework is fun, i really like it. But i KINDA disagree. KINDA. Healing had peaks and valleys from the other Hog. But Hog 2.0 has a higher floor and lower celling on survivability. I find myself playing more like a JunkerQueen, hiding between cover more and surviving a lot. Maybe i have just been playing against bad players lol.
6v6 was simply better for the game and until they bring it back the tank role will always feel like shit. They need to go back to crafting supports like mercy and lucio instead of OW2 supports where they do everything in one. Supports should have utility like ana, lucio, zen that help the team push or focus fire or be allowed to play more awareness and game sense characters like mercy and lifeweaver. Supports need to have a clear weakness, to which the new one usually don't. Tanks need to have majority of the cc. DPS needs to be allowed to dps instead of being outdamaged in their role by the rest of the cast. DPS should usually have glass cannons (high dmg and high mobility, but low health), moderate damage with moderate mobility, or high (consistent) dmg with low mobility. I love the game but it's truly shit. Tank is rock paper, scissors. DPS is either enabling your tank by playing something cringe or using a one shot character. Support is stlll busted, too hard to kill and does too much overall healing (just as much as OW1, even with one less tank) and now self heal. The game has no competitive integrity. I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but what are the major goals to actually make this game enjoyable.
6v6, hero bans in ranked, and for the love of god NERF supports. Game is more dead then it already is without these changes. So sad
I hate Ram mirrors. Every time I play Ram, the other tank switches to him and we have a pillow boxing match the whole game...
It is a major support problem, hear me out: when in 6v6 the supports had to heal 4 people so, it was way easier as an individual player to find openings to kill someone. Now, supports have to heal one less tank but the overall healing output has stayed the same and the saving abilities have drastically increased thus leaving very little opportunity to kill anyone. Hog and Mauga perfectly highlight this issue. Supports have been way too overturned, but nerfing the cooldowns is not the solution, the overall healing output has to be nerfed. Also, some abilities need to be rethinked, ana nade should become a heal reduction, Suzu should only target 1 person so you have to choose who to save and not deny entire ultimates, LW does insane amounts of healing and has 225hp while having a ton of mobility, I won’t even start with baptiste, illari is a disguised DPS with a DPS ultimate. Yes, we wanted supports to be fun but not to this extend, this is just ridiculous. Remember, it is way easier to heal someone that it is to kill them. Tank is the most unfun role right now.
incorrect. the healing has stayed the same, damage numbers have increased heavily, which is why saving abilities have become more prevalent. you watch too much flats if you think healing is a problem in this game, because factually its not, its been the same for years, the only thing thats changed is the amount of damage. suzu and grip wouldnt need to be as good as they are if the TTK in this game hadnt basically halved. healing cannot even remotely keep up with the damage in the game and thats literally what its designed to do. genji, bastion, sym and sojourn are the highest played characters in GM. genji can burst any squishy with ease, bastion does 360 dps, sym does 180dps and sojourn can kill people with a few bullets and a right click. healing this is simply not possible. if you want to nerf healing, damage numbers need to be cut hard
@@bladeclanhalo3thank you for having a brain. Istg flats has been brainwashing the ow playerbase lmao
@@bladeclanhalo3 I hate when people think of GM as the benchmark. GM accounts for less than 1% of the playerbase, if you think that balance changes should be made based on GM players, then you are ruining the experience for 99% of the playerbase. I am not implying to balance based on bronze either, but the majority of the playerbase (85-90%) lies in diamond-plat-gold. I say it again, it is extremely easier to heal people that it is to kill them. If you don’t see this, you are delusional. Supports have the HIGHEST queue times right now for the first time in 7 years, if that does not speak to you, I don’t know what else will. I am support player btw (D3). Don't make conclusions based on number alone, yes, on paper, damage numbers outdo healing, but the experience of it is entirely different, just because it is way easier to land heals than shots. it is like saying that Mauga will dominate the game just because on paper he does extreme amounts of damage.
@@georgioszampoukis1966if you're having difficulties killing people in the current state of them game then you should stop playing dps. mercy healing for a grand 50hp per second doesnt do shit against the 180 dps soldier. support queues are high because the meta is dogshit. you either play orisa and dva for tank, and for support you either need to have god aim with ashe/sojourn or be able to 1v1 everyone as genji. half the dps are useless. im a shit genji and my aim is either i hit everything or bronze, im not consistent enough to play them. i was GM in ow1 on DPS before i quit, its currently masters 5 as i dont play it. my tank is also masters 5 as the only tank i enjoy playing is hog, and he's still the worst character in the game, so i play support where im GM2
@@bladeclanhalo3 you are making my point, but we will start going in loops here. People quit playing DPS because supports have become way too oppressive. It takes high skill to kill someone, but other than ana, it takes very low skill to heal someone. Don't judge the performance of a hero based on paper stats, it is like saying that Mauga will dominate the game because on paper he can do extreme amounts of damage. Also, saying that soldier can do 180 dps assumes that this soldier is having 100% accuracy, which won't ever happen. t500 soldiers have about 60% accuracy while the average soldier has about 40-45, that means the actual dps of soldier lies in the 70-100 range dps. Only exception to this are snipers, widow and hanzo can indeed destroy people, but you won't see that happening often below Masters. I admire the skill of people playing in GM, but they often have no clue on what the experience is on lower ranks, which, again, make for more than 99% of the playerbase
i think the best way for overwatch to fix this while not going back to double shield metas and such is to go back to 6v6 but make tanks two seperate roles maintanks/shield tanks as one role queue and then off tanks/ non-shield tanks as a different role queue.
As a doom/hog main, i really love this rework, but as mentioned the dmg reduction could use a bit of tweaking up to 40 or 45 percent reduction. Not sure tho
If Take a Breather is the core to Roadhog's "tank" play, have it do a cleanse on himself or it heals not matter what.
Hog could use a way to protect his team mates. Compared to all other tanks (except ball who suffers from the same problem) he’s really selfish for a tank. I’d give him some AoE passive to reduce incoming damage to team mates that are near or a small over health. Would also fit his lore as a body guard, stay near him amd he protects you.
even junker queen has shout thats does something...
Honestly though if every tank was like that we wouldn't have as much variety, now both Queen and Mauga are AoE team-buff tanks who need to play around the team, Dva is made to peel for her team, Winton dives with his team, Rein... dies on cooldown. So, trying to allow Hog to be this selfish tank is kind of what makes Hog Hog, allowing him to flank off the side and do whatnot is kinda what makes him unique, I think it's fine to have a tank with that sorta playstyle even if it isn't the best competitively.
No. Hog should go in and get picks, not hold his teamates hands in the backline. For a tank to do anything they need to have the threat of killing players.
@@Georgian502 That depends on the team comp and the play style that would arise from this change. Like for example reaper could benefit alot from having a small damage reduction or over health and could brawl with hog picking off targets that get hooked.
Getting a kill with the hook should cause a massive blood spray that heals teammates it rains onto. Think Ultrakill healing mechanics. It encourages hooking an enemy into your grouped-up team for a focus fire kill, but isn't AoE healing on cooldown.
It's undeniable that the reworked Hog can command presence on the field more, without being oppressive. He may not do so enough in some people's view, but he certainly does so more now than he did before this rework.
I haven't played since January, but MAN i miss 6v6
Hmm... it's almost like the game was designed around 6v6...GASP
Tanks really do need a massive shift, they are the ones who create space, they should be the ones with cc, while DPS should have the damage abilities, and support to mobility, also having one tanks means yes they are supposed to be able to “Tank” damage, but the problem is that they become almost too oppressive, honestly I really really do think they need to bring back 6v6, that way they can massive nerf the tanks to make them not as oppressive and buff the supports to make JT that they can provide more for the team to make up for the tank nerfs
5v5 problem, not tank problem
Both of my favorite characters/mains are tanks, and I haven't even queued tank a single time this entire season (and most of last) save for the few times I played mauga. It feels awful. I don't even have to do well for the entire enemy team to counterpick me even in quick play lmao. I liked 5v5 at first but now I'm missing 6v6. The only times I ever want to play tank are in things like open queue now lmfao.
Here's a fun thought experiment, if take a breather cleanse condition on roadhog, how broken would it make him?
I would watch Stylosa stream Total Mayhem and dive into the surprising metas and counters in there
They should let hog use his hook to grab health packs or something, give us somethin goofy
we need 2 tanks back to fix this mess
i get the heal change and i think its good BUT removing the oneshot AND the secondary fire is like removing the 2 most fun parts of the hero and then what are we left with? a tank that has a radom ahh pattern for his primary fire, the hook (only fun part at this point), the heal that is cool i guess but still not fun, and the ulti that most of the times gets you killed. i love blizzard
> one shot
> fun
you can only have one
@@jada_9827 i agree with you, but also why completly destroy a character only because people cry about it (hog) and make minor twicks to other characters that in my opinion shoudnt have the oneshot (hanzo, widow) i would argue that hanzo and widow are more frustrating than hog, but they didnt get nerfed to the ground
@@aquaenjoyer1612 I find hanzo and widow extremely unfair and unpleasant to play against too, especially widow
Like if someone picks cassidy nobody cares, if someone picks widow the whole team needs to adjust or at very least be way more on guard
Make Ana’s anti-nade do % heal reduction instead of negating heal entirely. It ruins so much potential with tanks, idk why isn’t not being addressed.
6v6 FFS! The 5v5 format RUINED the gameplay!
Honestly sounds more like a probmen with Ana/Discord rather than tanks themselves. News flash, creating abilities that cripple sustainability and healing, which are the entire point of *2 of the 3 roles in the game* is a stupid idea.
And when you stop to consider those two abilities were made back when the game was 6v6... 🤡
Wanna know how you fix this issue? Bring back 6v6........
Trying to have a single tank, which is arguably the MOST important role in the game, while bringing in more characters and also keep them OP as fuck for them to have an impact, is just a bad model. DPS feel like they get rolled, tanks have no synergies to play off, supports get less peel.
Id like for Blizzard to admit that the model is flawed and that 6v6 was better from a gameplay mode. It only needed a god damn balancing patch, which pretty much was OW2.
Whenever someone say "but if i had one bad tank we just lost" i cant help but think "yea but now if you get one bad tank you wont get ANY help".
Also, the reason people didnt que as tank in OW1 was because the BALANCING WAS CRAP. They were literally unable to change orisa and sigma, removing the shield and turning them into off tanks. They just needed to tweak the numbers, making it impossible to sit behind a shield all the time, or add extra shield damage to a few DPS heroes abilities for a counter play.
title fix: Overwatch has problems
An idea I just had, what if Take A Breather, instead of just healing, split it between healing and gaining temp hp, the amount of health gained would still be the same but like 75% would be healing, and 25% would be a decaying temp health boost, so when you get anti naded for example, you would still have some decent mitigation, on top of the 30% dmg reduction.
Not a balance expert or anything, just an idea.
Still feel like they should have gave Hog a car door as a shield. You can get head shots still, but blocks most of the damage. And when the shield is about done, he can chuck it at someone for a stun. 😂
If only there was like, a 2nd tank or something
I got a solution for the tanking issue...add another tank.
Stylosa you clearly haven't kept up with the game enough to know what you're talking about because Orisa doesn't really counter hog anymore and other things but please stop saying these things before asking a higher ranked tank player like Flats or Emongg or someone who understands more than most tank players who thinks about it and isnt as reactionary.
The only problem with this argument, is that a lot of this is thinking that it’s always a 1v1 (tank v tank)… but it’s all about your team. Many times you pick a counter tank and the enemy team just had a better counter support, dps that your “counter tank” has no effect.
So it’s all about how your team is working together, especially when you get to plat/diamond.
When a tank has triple the amount of damage than both DPS combined at the end of the game, that is no longer a tank.
or you just had shit dps. tanks have always had the most damage, its just balanced around offense and defence
@@bladeclanhalo3 no
I think they could of made hook chargable alt fire which slows you down while charging. Hook no longer stuns you if you have a movement ability like roll. Charging increases range. Keep the health pack but it make you faster after use but you can only recharge it by nerfing your healing by 30 percent while touching the ability to balance this you can fire while healing and your hook charges faster while healing.
Whole hog is now an ability replacing hook and the new ult is bodyguard
Your teamates give you the damage they take but you get temp armour
Could be absolutely miserable if done wrong, but I actually like a lot of the ideas you have here. I've always had this mental image of hog spinning hook around like a slingshot while charging it up, so I love that. Bodyguard is a cool idea (if you only absorb a percentage of teammate damage, all of it would be absurd, and I might restrict it to line of sight?) but maybe just sorta fuse it with whole hog instead of replacing it? Like, have it make your main weapon full auto and high knockback like whole hog, and have damage absorbed from teammates refill/overflow the magazine. Bootleg whole hog, now synergized with the new function.
Otherwise, I personally like the idea of being able to either use your heal on yourself or toss it on the ground, and giving it a little bit of AoE healing+damage reduction+speed boost for your team and slow+damage+healing reduction for enemies either way - not huge numbers since it would have so many effects and certainly not the full effect, just enough to help you either push enemies away from somewhere, fortify it for your team, or push in as a group. Maybe hold it down to heal, let go to toss it out, the duration stays the same either way so you can use some for yourself and then toss it out? Would probably need to work like the old version, with appropriate number changes.
Alternatively for hook, you could have it be cancelable and give it some more momentum on enemies it hits - if you cancel before it hits it pushes them back like brig flail, maybe with a little radial push like pharah missile if it hits an enemy or wall, and if you cancel it after it hits but before the enemy gets to you they keep going for a bit - best paired with better hook control and maybe a brief hinder? Hinder could be a decent alternative for a oneshot too, since you could just extend the time before hog can fire after hooking and leave more teamplay and counterplay - plus some potential skillshots if you cancel hook early and toss them towards yourself to finish the animation earlier and get a cleaner combo.
Really, I think he just needs some more team interaction and gameplay options - as is, you just kinda use every ability the same way most of the time: heal when you're low/taking heavy fire, shoot whenever but especially after hook, hook the weakest/most important enemy either to you or off the map, whole hog to take space and maybe cheese a kill or two. Pig pen just gets thrown in before a hook now, and I think he could do better.
I laughed so hard at the enemy Hog getting deleted 3 times in a row at the beginning of the video lmao
I think he needs 1) a unique punch like zen, his might bump an enemy back like zen or maybe slow them or something? And 2) instead of pig pen, give him a jump smash dive move like winston, but doesnt go nearly as high and sucks enemies into it when you hit them
Instead of a belly flop, honestly I would have given Hog a big boot. Essentially like a lucio boop but fires the target at a consistent, fixed arc. Hog is kinda meant to be big and brawly, but back with his one-shot he really was just kind of a hook bot. Adjusting his weapon so he fires faster but does a little less with every shot and adding in this boot could make him much more of a big brawler that is good at countering engage while relying on his hook to engage for himself... and making him much more than the one trick pony that he used to be.
What the boot would really do for him is give him combos: Hook > Shoot > Boot > Shoot or Shoot > Boot > Hook > Shoot > Melee. Hook a person, turn them to a wall and boot them into the wall to get more damage from your combo, or boot them into your team. Boot the winston off of your supports. He could even keep his one-shot combo, since that combo would give the enemy opportunities to be saved or press their defensive buttons, which is something that made hog so frustrating before.
The best thing about overwatch is also the worst thing about overwatch. I truly feel that the reason Overwatch is dying and will die as a game is because of the rock paper scissors hero switching garbage. Most people, not just casuals, just want to play a character they are in the mood for, and not have to constantly switch and be required to learn all heroes in order to counter and be decent at the game. There are very obvious and apparent reasons why no other game exists like overwatch that allows you to switch characters whenever you want.
Blizzard keeps releasing tanks whose main mode of survivability is self-healing and then wonder why the tank struggles to get anything done while Anti-nade exists.