This Pool House Has More Power Than Your House
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Electric Pro Academy - Real skills to make real money.
Synopsis:
Your house probably has a 100- or 200-amp service. This one has 600 amps…and it’s just the pool house! Our work on this particular day was a culmination of many months of energy and neighborhood bureaucracy. Who knew electrical work could be so dramatic!?
With most (but not all) of the drama behind us, our job today was simply to install 3 200-amp, fused disconnects to the back of the structure. Enjoy!
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Outline:
0:00 - Property Introduction
1:28 - Pool House!
2:47 - Panel Penetration
3:33 - Needed A Couple Extra Parts…
6:31 - Mounting Exterior Disconnects
8:07 - GC Came To Visit
11:00 - Prefabricating Disconnects & Driving Ground Rods
11:25 - Fuses
12:39 - Visualizing Wire Path
13:01 - Dialing In Electrical Aesthetics Before Siding Goes Up
13:53 - Protecting & Fixing Underground Cable
15:47 - Utility Bureaucracy
18:19 - Wiring Load Side
20:56 - Manufacturing Fault
23:21 - First Landing Vs. Torque Landing
24:56 - Identifying Line Side Wires - No Neutral?
26:50 - Trimming Conductors?
28:09 - Equipment Grounding Conductor & Code Galore
31:13 - Finalizing & Covering Interior Panel Lugs
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For contractors that are in a hurry and want equipment mounted to a plain wall. I offer to cut some marine grade polymer or plywood for a backer board of the outdoor equipment. Marine grade polymer looks really nice.
That is a brilliant idea. I was wondering what a workaround could have been. It would have been a lot easier for the person doing the siding to work around a large board than all the individual cans.
Years ago came across a 400 amp service that had 2 200 amp main breaker panels. While working inside one panel found the ground wire was a little warm. Original installer never tightened one of the grounded conductors ( neutral ) . Wire was only halve into lug so the ground wires being bonded to both service panel neutral bars was carrying some of the neutral current. Luckily the current draw between the two energized conductors were less then 20 amps.
can we get a tour of this pool house once complete? Just curious to see how it turned out. It’s quite the project!
Why wasn’t the URD put in PVC? We quit direct burial in the 80’s. Too many possibilities that could cause future damage. It’s single phase, no need to mark phase, right or wrong?
I find it interesting how the interior of the pool house seems well insulated and air sealed yet the electrical penetrations did not address this level of air sealing. I suppose the main contractor could address this issue later when applying the exterior treatment but that is just a band aid for doing it in the correct process step. I feel the trades all need schooled on increased constraints involving air sealing in addition to water sealing.
@@ElectricProAcademy Hello, there are tapes made to seal around the conduit where it penetrates the house wrap. So mount the conduit stub from the inside out and wrap it before mounting the box. In the case of these three boxes, I realize it would have been challenging to get them all aligned using such a method although not impossible.
To be honest my fellow sparky, I would have made another run to the supply house for the right size lugs. They would have probably only been like 20 bucks.
Super clean work mate.
Joel is such a humble, polite man for how wealthy and professional he is
How wealthy is he?
@@atcdude067 he owns the company
I have never seen removing strands allowed even when upsizing wires. To me it seems worth the extra money to get the proper lug size for the disconnect or get a pin adapter. On a large job like that why make it look like a hacked up mess.
One thing you don't see in North America (far as I know) are crimp ferrules for stranded conductors. Very common in Europe where stranded conductors are the normal type used for all wiring. Never understood this odd ommission, especially when we have other terminals like spades, rings, and forks.
@@aaron74 they are available. Not everyone uses them. I keep a whole assortment for smaller wires
@@AdirondackCampingAdventures Oh they're definitely available, I have a kit myself from Amazon. But I don't believe they're "standard" in this country. They don't carry them at mainstream electrical supply houses, so they're not used in the trade.
The supply house I use carries them. Can get them for all sorts of wire. And many reducing pin adapters
@@AdirondackCampingAdventures Really! Well that's encouraging then. Hopefully it becomes more mainstream practice to use them because it seems like a no-brainer to me.
While on fuses I worked for a large cheap candy plant years ago. Every 600 bolt fuse from 3 Amos to 400 amps were supplied by cheap renewable fuse link fuses that were only good for 10,000 IAC. ALL feed from 3000 amp 480 volt buss ducts. Had mechanics who only used 30 amp links for everything so when a 2HP motor shorted out it would blue the 15 amp fuse link in a hard to reach buss duct switch. Took over 5 years but every week I removed some of the renewable fuses and installed real deal time delay fuses that had a 100,000 or 200,000 IAC.
i don't even want to see the electric bill for this place.
For some reason, this place smells like a political benefactors (money for nothing) property.
To make the disconnect install clearer or neater you could use crimped ferules on the ends your conductors, colored sleeving or heat shrink on the conductors to make them more easily identifiable.
I'd say that estimate for the burying lines is low. I work on a UG Replacement program and that half mile bore alone with all the equipment and material was probably north of 100k to 250k. I'm sure there's differences between companies that may change that, but with the items my group needs to follow it gets expensive. (Locates, Environmental, Easement costs, etc..) Definitely like watching the videos, helps me build my knowledge on the low voltage side of what I do. (Not a lineman, but work with them daily) Keep it up.
A gap like that , is more like a wild guess.
Homeline on a multi million dollar project?. Also it will have pt's in the meter. So 2 twisted pairs and 2 single conductors. Ct's need to be terminated in shorting links for meter removal.
Good stuff, thanks.
I love what you are doing. You seems to know codes pretty well. So a few comments / questions. First why did you mount the disconnect right to the house wrap? As opposed to a finished hardy board or some other finished material? The water will run down the back and could get into the wall. Because UL listing of the disconnect calls for surface mounting with a 1/4 of space between it and the wall. So caulking the disconnect to the wall is a no no.In my area that (south florida) will fail inspection.
Also why are you using a sawzall to cut the 0/4 wire? A ratchet cable cutter for large size is the way to go. Or electric even better.
I don’t know why he’s doing it, but I know very few people who own ratcheting cable cutters and just use their sawzall or bandsaw. Save the couple dollars for a night out!
I like how you don’t edit your mistakes or short falls. Joel could easily cut that out of the video and we wouldn’t know the difference. Instead he mans up and works the problem.
You're too kind...I got nothing to hide.
Interruption rating generally full load transforner current divided by transformer impedence. The usual stops are 5K, 10K ( most common residential rating ), 22K and 65K. Higher AIC is higher dollar. The utility sizes the transformer, and full load current is rarely the single residence service size.
$1 Mill pool home with a fence that is falling over.... lol
Looks like landscaping hasn't been done yet. You think that was a design choice?
Building construction has a strong tendency of causing damage to landscaping, fences, etc, around it. That's why when developers are building a bunch of houses in a new neighborhood fences go up after siding and all exterior work is done, then landscaping is always one of the last things they do.
A simple fix for the conductor not fitting inside of the lugs by being 350 and lugs are up to 250 would be just to change the lugs out for larger, and torque them to spec. Now I live in Canada so it’s a little different here but it’s code to put duct seal into all exterior to interior conduits, as airflow from warm to cool causes condensation build up, and eventually rust. Maybe it’s a non issue for you guys in your climate though, I like building things for longevity.
@21:03 Ive never seen that before. another thing to look out for now 😂
Hey Joel. What is the short blue fish tape kit you use? Everything I'm seeing has rods that are like 3' and I'm looking for around 1' each. Thanks
Specs on it, I just did a tonal draws 12 amps. Lol then they’ll want backing and notch around your straight wires .
This must be an all-electric estate with all the heat and water heating electric.
I'm surprised you didn't comment on putting the feedthrough to the panel right on top of the incoming knockout from underground. Why not shift the disconnect over so the load side wires could go out the right-hand knockout? Even if it meant a bit more digging to shift the buried wires over so they could still like up with the left-hand gutter, it would have made a much tidier install.
Also, some more commentary on and respect for the water- and air-tightness of the penetration through the housewrap and wall would have been good. Did you even put some tape around to seal it to the conduit, or will that housewrap be flapping around loose in the air gap behind the disconnect forevermore?
I also would have put in the effort to get proper-sized lugs for the disconnect terminals and the wire you're using, rather than trimming strands.
Seems like 3 phase would have been a good choice.
Why is that? No 3 phase equipment, no reason to get it.
@@BariumCobaltNitrog3n It divides the loads between 3 hot lines instead of two, reducing the current in each leg. It's done all the time in residential, primarily multi-tenant.
@@Sylvan_dB Really. Where is this?
@@BariumCobaltNitrog3n I've seen it in Atlanta, Los Angeles, salt lake city, and Boise. Read it is common in Chicago, new York, Boston. Seen all the 208v options or specifications on water heaters, heat pumps, etc? That's why.
@@Sylvan_dB I see. So 208 is better than 240.
1200A single phase? why not 3 phase?
Get the m12 Milwaukee cable cutters. They are WAY better than cutting 2/0 and 3/0 than a reciprocating saw. I have one and use it daily, very good quality tool, and the battery lasts for ever! 247220 is the part number from Milwaukee
I agree but I know Joel the issue for you is stocking out all the vans…
That is true, they are expensive and can be a pain to find a lot of the time too. They make life easier so I figured I’d at least throw it out there
Once Joel gets more review product sent to him, he'll have more toys than the rest of us.
So your utility co is just as solw as mine lol. Good old Baltimore Gas and Electric. Cant do business with em cant do it without em.
in my area anything underground goes into the zoning department, which takes a minimum of 90 days AFTER you start at the building department. I have seen it take 6 months before the utility starts their end, and by that time a house can be mostly built.... and just waiting for power. (I was supplying gen sets during construction)
Why in your country like to use 2 hot wires plus neutral?
I'm curious as to why you didn't run a single 600A Disconnect and use a splitter to hit each panel, as every panel has its own main breaker as far as I'm concerned you didn't really need 3 disconnects, could have also saved on direct burial cable don't have my code in front of me but probably would have be 2 runs 500kcmil . And also we use Burndy Multi tap straights for downsizing oversized wire for lugs [You asked for critics sorry ;) ] Looks good though, that's one hell of a pool house nice job.
It’s a selective coordination issue to avoid complete power loss if the fuse in that single disconnect were to go due to fault in a single piece of equipment in the pool house.
@@mathman0101 I suppose but the odds of a 600A fuse blowing before a branch circuit breaker is next to 0, but I get the argument. A simple solution would be to just leave a couple spare fuses on site though
@@mathman0101 That is selectivity. a circuit breaker is more sensitive than an actual fuse let alone one rated for 600 a .
What kind/brand of gloves do you wear!
any time some jagoff finger wags me about "wasting electricity" or this or that ima show them this pool house.. dropped the mike
I have seen colored heatsink used to id what the wire does takes a little longer to mark the wire
europe uses them
Indeed colored heat shrink so much nicer and so much more useful. When I talk with UK electricians and when I am back in the UK so many nice tools and nice practices that we can easily adopt for an improved installation.
Slightly more permanent than 3M tape is to put a small zip tie over the tape so that when the adhesive does let go a little, at least part of it is held in place. I have seen that survive 15 years under the hood of a black car in Texas - but the shrink tube connections looked better.
Great ideal. Company that I retired from loved to purchase garbage POS china crap from Grainger's. Would save the cable ties that broke while installing them and throw them all over bosses desk. He finally ordered T&B Ty Rabs just for me.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp T&B materials are good quality. I would not give cheap electrical tape to my worst enemy.
33+ doesn't let go, if you know how to apply it/ break it, better yet cut it.
Why did the power company not power up the transform. They don't have to get a green light on there side do they
Never heard of the inspector asking about what neutral lung the neutral should be on?
From the sounds of the airplanes, this must be Merridian-Kessler area.
Most of the conduit de-rates due to heat and EMF elements are pretty much out of date from IEEEE standards which feed into international electrical standards these are based on standard math impendance and fault current calculations and potential heat Latest work using CFD (computational fluid dynamics) modeling regarding cables and conduits heat and de-rates upends these older calculations. It will take years for this change to happen. Oversizing conduit does not seem to play a part in de-rating of conductors from the current standards but CFD research work suggests that would be an important factor including how these conductors lie geometrically in a conduit body heat and air propagation can be radically different based on all these factors.
I prefer heavier duty industrial rotary fused disconnects for a job like this but then the costs of the project would rise considerably. They are far more smooth and less likely to cause problem when switching under loads.
On the fuses with the external disconnects. You need to have done a full selective coordination assessment (fault trip time current curves) with the fuses in the external disconnect with the breakers in the panel to ensure that breakers are compatible namely the breakers closest to fault would trip faster and lower fault currents than the fuses in the external disconnect to ensure you avoid complete power loss in the pool house. Look at some Bussmann and Litelfuse documentation on selective coordination.
Once installed I would suggest a full load test for the pool house with CT clamps to monitor for voltage and amperage and power monitoring and do a appropriate thermal monitoring for the panels and the disconnects that will provide some sense on removing conductor strands is going to cause an issue. Otherwise I would not advise removing strands to fit a connector, that could open you upto risk and liability you don’t want and manufacturers would also state the wire termination would go against their specifications and directions, adaptors as you suggest would be the way to go no matter the additional costs it is what it is.
As always Joel doing a great job and for always thinking…
Use ratchet wire cutter it's more easy
Damn these comments are full of haters lol. Be constructive with your criticisms kyles and Karen's
Some people aren't aware that other cities or counties do things differently and instead of saying how they do it it's just, you're an idiot. Those lugs got people all worked up, but the reality is there's usually more than one correct method. One guy hates electrical tape lol. Underlying all the vitriol is a shared desire for perfection. Make it pretty.
like the videos but that intro makes me slam the back button off every time just lower the volume on the intro
I wonder if various colors of heat-shrink tubing would be good for identifying cables. I just loathe electrical tape...
We have one old inspector who wants you to either use color shrink tubing or paint to ID wired over #6 guage. I always used quality color tape from 3M and it holds up great. Hated when cheap contractors only installed one wrap of the cheapest color tape to Identify a long wire inside a 400 to 800 amp panel. Of course within a month cheap tape started unpeeling..
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Yeah the Scotch 35 and Super 88 is the best there is for sure. I don't wrap devices with electrical tape, I think that's kinda silly. I do, however, like this product by Ideal called Armourband that covers devices like a big wide tight rubber band around it. I would use them if they didn't cost a fortune and insulating around devices was required.
@@aaron74 My first 20 years was spent in a large slaughterhouse then a large candy plant that nightly high pressure wash downs water intrusion was a daily problem. Found that taping wire nuts that were under a inch of water circuits did not short out. Taping devices prevented same problem. While working in a room had a union electrician tell me that we waste tape by taping wide hospital grade receptacles. The new work box he was working in had both sides slightly bowed in and Madison bars that were not tight against inside of box. Before he had the receptacle pulled halve way out of box it shorted out. Before he installed the new receptacle he applied several wraps of tape. Found that if you do not tape wire nuts on crushers, hammer mills , vibrating screens etc wire nuts can fall off. We used to use scotch 88 on all outdoor equipment. Scotch 33 always was the best general use electrical tape. Think it might have been Plymouth that made a great grey tape that came in 72' rolls verses the 66' everybody else produced back in the early 1970's. Of course once it caught on they went to 66' rolls. At the candy plant store room guy used to breaky balls because I used twice as much 33 tape & tubes of silicone. They had 4 large machines that had two 100 HP Motors each in a 95 degrees chocolate room and ran 24/5. The bugs inside of the 8 pecker heads would short due to high heat, lots of vibration and no derating of wires from heat. I installed new split bolt bugs and applied a full roll of 33 tape over a heavy wrap of varnished cambric tape. Never had any problems after that. They did not want to go up to next conduit size in order to pull larger wire.Would have rather used quality Thomas & Betts crimp on lugs with grade 5 Hex bolts along with flat & lock washer's but only had a couple in stock.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Interesting story. These days, outdoor-rated materials for the slaughterhouse would have worked well. I'd use adhesive-lined heatshrink tubing around wirenut splices. Still probably wouldn't wrap a weather-resistant receptacle because it should be in a gasketed weather-rated Bell box. One thing I like to do is drill a small 3/16 hole in the bottom of mounted Bell boxes to allow both ventilation to come in and any moisture to escape. The inside has to breathe, otherwise there can be corrosion in there.
my critique is a silly one. you don't have to identify that hot as red, unless its a local code.
They can afford all that yet have a fence that falling apart
That expensive of a job. Why not run that entire run in conduit. It would make much more sense.
I mean, he straight up said in the video that he did not do that to avoid having to de-rate the conductors which would make them even larger
Wealthy Neighborhood and Flight Corridor over Head, that do not fit for a German🇩🇪🤔...nor the wooden Sheds. We pay at least 4 times more...for Housing.
It seems like you always have material issues on every video I've watched. This one seems inexcusable since you've been working on this job for 12 months. First you had to use 3 phase disconnects because the supply house was out of the proper ones (a little planning would have solved that) and then you cut down the conductor to save a few $$ vs using ferrules. Seems like for a job of that size you'd want to do it right.
Do you mean a reducing adapter or do you mean you should not put stranded wire in a lug without a ferrule on it?
@@deadluser I meant don’t cut down a wire to make it fit the lug. He stated he was going to remove strands on the 350 mcm to fit into the disconnect. They make reducing ferrules.
Once we accept deposit on a job of ours all the materials are ordered. With the correct connectors or lugs for the wire used. We give them a realistic start date and proceed.
@@AdirondackCampingAdventures that makes too much sense.
@@AdirondackCampingAdventures Joel did say that they didn't know where the disconnects would go until recently. If you're used to using Siemens, you might be used to their oversized lugs, and then get surprised when you have to settle for some other brand. Who knows. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and ask instead of making negative assumptions.
what a waste of earths ressourses to have a pool housel like that consuming so much energy, no wonder the grid i struggeling in the most hypocrit state.
Being so humble at a customer's site that is so flamboyant and greedy. How can you reconcile that? To hell with 'em. Change order them up the ying-yang. They can afford it. Gross opulence....very gross.
Jealousy is a terrible thing.