On the contrary ;) The fact that no one test can measure every single thing about a person doesn't mean that tests are fundamentally useless, it just means you have to think about what information you think is most useful to focus on and which information you don't need to. "Thermometers don't measure blood pressure and sphygmomanometer's don't measure temperature, so we shouldn't use them!" "Why not use the sphygmomanometer for blood pressure and use the thermometer for temperature?"
@@Simpson17866 At the same time, it's clear here that what's actually happening when you build a personality test--or, when you think about it, any means of categorizing people or art--is that you're _trimming information away,_ not dredging up new information. (Something something 'create context'.) You cannot make a personality test that perfectly describes a person because, by its nature, a personality test makes someone easier to understand by blurring out details that are considered less important than what's measured by the test. If there _were_ a perfect personality test that precisely captures everything about a person, it would be both indistinguishable from the person it's measuring and completely impossible to understand.
@@TehNoobiness That's not a bug, that's a feature ;) Every single person you look at has more information about their identity than you could possibly categorize in a thousand lifetimes, so you have to ask yourself "which types of information about a person do I personally care most about most of the time?" I for one don't tend to use D&D Alignment or MyersBriggs as much as I used to because I've decided that the information that the MTG Color Wheel tends to be more useful for my personal purposes - though I'm still perfectly comfortable combining them to explore more distinctions between more combinations :D
This was a fun ride. The first two "oops we need another axis" were immediate and expected, and then the titular tesseract goes on for so much longer that we get nice and comfortable sorting people into convenient boxes before getting slapped with the reminder that human complexity has endless layers
Break down all dimensions into five one dimensional lines. Not that hard, just slide left to right of the extreme of the other than having them there all at once. Sometimes, individuality makes simplicity, which could be preferable above complexity
@@AstroEli133 Tesseracts and pentaracts also dont solve this problem. Not every exact player is idetifiable in a Tesserect because as it is shown, it is just a three dimensional projection of a four dimensional object. At least one Dimension automatically gets lost. For example take the "average player", a player that scores right in the middle on every possible measurement. Intuitively you would position that player right in the middle of the tesseract projection, but that would place him right in the middle of the campaign pacing cube which would contradict him being average. If you wanted to solve this problem mathematically you would have to find a bijection from [0,1]^3 to [0,1]^4, which IS possible, for example with space filling curves, but it would be a really dumb visualisation, because it would be completely uncomprehensable.
An interesting idea. I think it actually reduces the number of possible variants, because non-orthogonal axis mean that some attributes can be explained as a derivative of other attributes.
@ yeah but as long as all of the attributes are linearly independent from the others they can still be orthoganlized via gram schmidt or something and the number of variants is still the same. but honestly this was just a joke haha
Exactly, everyone is so hung up on visualization, but with some simple linear algebra, we can work with an arbitrarily complex n-dimensional vector space. Bonus points for sprinkling in a little bit of geometric algebra. Surely, without the limitations of human visualization, the information will be much more digestible...
I mean, you are still only aiming at 5 dimensions; if we're categorizing by extremes, then that's only 2^5 = 32 categories, which is actually pretty manageable. Still, this grows pretty fast, once you have 10 axis, you've got about 1000 categories, and you might as well make cute monster pictures to represent them and use them to fill up your Pokémon Romack at that point.
I made a similar observation. They could’ve used a simple cube with six cuboids on each side to create a 30 sided figure and an additional six sides from the original cube without breaking the laws of physics and has more than enough axes to assign each proposed one in the video.
I feel like I subconsciously saw that ending coming early on, but it still hit me like a truck full of bricks! Excellent foreshadowing, and masterfully crafted through and through!!
Ahh, my favorite genre of video essay: gradually descending into madness. Also, I don't think scientist and roleplayer are really a dichotomy. I would personally put myself pretty high on roleplayer and scientist, though im not quite sure how to label the new axes. Regardless, the GAMEPLAY HEXATESSERACT IS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT
Same! I want to roleplay as a person with very sharp characteristics - they're _very_ competent at doing one or two things, and mechanically built to do that to the best of my game knowledge, but also have one or two glaring flaws that can and will cause problems. On that note, I also really like it when my mechanical rewards and my narrative rewards come in one neat little package, so please understand thAT THE HEPTASSERACT IS REALLY NOT THAT COMPLEX IF YOU KEPT UP SO FAR
I like being the Roleplayer in Camaign like scale, and being like the Scientist on Episodic scale. Sometimes both in the same game at the same time. Just to break up the idea that people could even be placed on a single point of however many axis there need to be.
@@tzaphkielconficturus7136 so I'm a high school math student who has sort of exhausted my available math classes (rural schools am I right), would you recommend clifford calculus?
Woah! I didn't even catch that. Its a math video with words like "roleplay" and "campaign" to distract from the fact that it's a math video. Very slick!
Instructions unclear. Opened the third eye and was brought to the gates of illucidation for questioning. AB testing with the angels revealed my cellphone games goals to be unclear and overwhelming.
Add enough dimensions and the diagram will have more player types than there are actual players, either that or the model evolves beyond simply describing the system and gets robust enough to make predictions about theoretical player types that haven't been observed yet, maybe even for axes of aspects that don't exist yet in current gaming experiences. Because the player, the game and their interaction are all intrinsically tied to reality, Ellie Rasmussen proceeded to unify all fields of science and human knowledge and put forth The Grand Unified Player Type Field Theory, perfectly describing all possible types of players. The model is so all encompassing that it also describes the rest of existence as well. "It's actually pretty simple once you get the hang of it" - Ellie Rasmussen after using GUPTFT to prove free-will doesn't exist, 2034.
So this video was a lot of fun but I'm not actually sure putting the roleplayer and scientist as opposites is entirely correct. It's possible for someone to be extremely invested in exploring and breaking down a game's systems and also still be deeply invested in their own immersion, especially if the game allows for one to actively take on the role of someone solving the game, like in heavily logic-driven mystery/detective games. This is distinct from simply sitting on the middle of a roleplay/science axis, which implies a willingness to sacrifice immersion if it means a chance to further engage with the mechanics or vice versa. Ultimately I think this issue stems from one simple fact: The opposite of a roleplayer is simply a non-roleplayer. One's desire and willingness to be deeply immersed in a game can't be placed opposed to a competing desire, only a lack of that desire or a desire to avoid that aspect of games. Ultimately I think defining immersion and it's draws would require an entire tesseract of its own, almost entirely distinct from the original tesseract, perhaps then creating a two-component description of a player by combining the results of both a narrative/immersion tesseract and a mechanical structure tesseract. (Ultimately this is probably easily represented as another higher-dimensional shape, but I think actively conceptualizing it as two separate components has merit for both naming conventions and practical discussions, which could be more easily focused on one side or another.) And while part of the point of this video is obviously poking fun at the idea of reducing people down to such simple structures, I actually think a two part system with cube or tesseract components could be a useful structure for discussing, analyzing, and simulating player tendencies without getting too deep into the depths of individuality. Or maybe I'm overthinking a somewhat silly video about math, lol
Let's say that both faces can be fulfilled with a single point (conjectured 4D space), you have absolutely none of the options, or absolutely all of them, which then means correlation lines aren't going to suffice. We can further label groupings (like we are reducing a fraction that is too large, such as 2/6 reduced to 1/3), so a parent label for the types of option combos possible in each pair. I imagine both Sci and Rp combine to some form of high perception, and the neither label would be needing data from other categories to create a label indirectly (instead it just being choose your positive attribute, you now have negative space to indicate in polar opposite of your constructed ideals to compare, giving you more data) in the end product (the player type). Since these are all static YES or NOs, the 00,01,10,11 options for each provided pairing can be a fundamental basis for one more thing. We can start adding infinite amounts of pairs! Since these combos are additive, and their impact directly correlates to the whole and not any of it's neighbors anymore, we can easily set requirements for each thing we make, and see exactly which players can interact with it or not in a predicted/assumed way. This means if we are absolutely sure a Scientist Roleplayer that is in constant love of being told what to do with things to discover (Sci+RP & direct + indirect), we can form a label higher up on our labeling scheme called Gamer(
I think thta isntead of the steryotype of the scientist the oposite of a roleplayer would be more akin to something like "The fps gamer", as in the guy who only cares about the mechanical aspect of the game, not the sotrytelling aspect of it. That will have less of the "does weird shit cause its cool" guys and would only be the the "combat is the only thing that matters rp is booooooooooring" kinda of players. Optimizers would fall inbetween these categories, as they can enjoy both, depending on what they really like. On that note, I think we could actually get a new dimension/vector form this! Tryhards (Or optmizers or comboers)/ The casuals This would be a line from those who try to make the most viable characters they can to those who just make silly little guy with shit stats and weird spell selections. The scientist steryotype can not work on it's own because there are multiple types of scientist and different aspects of the game mechanics they can enjoy! But both the FPS Gamers and the try hards split the "Focous on game mechanics" part, tho the first one is only mechanics focused and the second one can be a roleplay tryhard too
so we need to double the amount of axii so show the intensity with which each player desires an ineraction but onCE YOU GET THE PENTARACT DOWN THE PLAYER TYPE ALIGNMENT DEKERA-
yeah for sure, all of these videos are amazing. personally can't wait til ellie blows up and I can brag about being here from before 500 subscribers, let alone 500,000
Since I'm a Lab Rat. Here's a list of the mentioned types. (challenge type) Direct/Indirect, (interaction type) Roleplayer/Scientist, (reward type) Narrative/Mechanical, (pacing type) Campaign/Episodic, (learning type) Deduction/Exposition [DR] Actor [DRN] Captian America/Power Ranger [DRNC] Hero [DRMC] Anti-Hero [DSME] Speedrunner [DRME] Lab Rat [IRME] Service Dog [IRNE] Philosophy Student
I tried making my own list of the tesseract ones, and got DRNC - Hero DRNE - Superman DRMC - Anti-Hero DRME - Bounty Hunter DSNC - Explorer DSNE - Lab Rat DSMC - Optimizer DSME - Speedrunner IRNC - Paragon IRNE - Detective IRMC - Treasure Hunter IRME - Game Show Contestant ISNC - Theorist ISNE - Philosophy Student ISMC - Archaeologist ISME - Mastermind (i misplaced a couple, but i think the logic holds throughout or something)
"So in the end you end up with 16 extreme embodiments of the edges of the scales." Ah, so this is the Myers-Briggs 16 personalities survey of the RPG world 😂
You are an expert in pacing with both concepts and humor and it makes the videos very enjoyable, its like there is always something to grab you either a progression in knowledge or a joke. Thank you for your efforts and the manner in which you convey your ideas
It can be made a game but this suddenly would turn into from a statistical system to a complex experiment of cultur-anthropological biases of gamers in one specific demographic who would be interested about being part of a survey. Like even in a impossible scenario where you make an amazing game and a good enough tool to test this still there are the things what would cause incredible biases, because games need to be a proper way in a sense so that they are playable. If you want to test what the player lacks in interest they have to face something they don’t want to face and then make them feel win or lose in a way it doesn’t hurt their ego.
Just found your Excel-as-GameEngine/WhatIsAGameEngine video..which compelled me back through your work to here, so far, and I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the intrigue of the ideas and the well-paced, fun, minimalist illustrative clarity of presentation a lot - stand out quality! This video, in particular, relates to many points of personal interest..resonates with many attractors I’m drawn to..personality modeling..generally modeling and investigating systems of related ideas in pursuit of insights gleaned through coherently mapping and clarifying essential features, dynamics, and implications..the inspiring viability of usefully discretizing and modeling reality and the profound scope-creep encounterable in pursuit of perfect, comprehensive modeling..intuitive use of >3D modeling..D&D.. Anyway - you're a gem and I strongly appreciate what you do. ,{^_^}”
4:05 also would like to point out that sometimes a narrative reward can be seeing the characters interact more. The DLCs for Splatoon show you moments with the characters as you beat more levels and it’s the primary reason I wanted to play more levels, because Pearl and Marina are just SO CUTE TOGETHER and I wanna see them and Nintendo are BASTARDS for withholding their interactions from us (but I wouldn’t want it any other way(except like with more unlockable))
Once I reach the Cube, I normally represent additional alignment dimensions as RGB values before I try to make things HyperSpatial. ( R, G, and B can each be a single axis, and it isn't hard for computers to convert Hexadecimal fractions in to percentages )
this is one of my faovrite digs at trying to categorize how people enjoy things: i tend to enjoy all aspects of games so its never been something ive ever put stock in
When you added the third dimension, I started getting excited and I said to myself "Why stop with 3? Ooh, I bet this video is going to end in some mathematics!". Now I'm half the way through, I can see it coming... Edit: only 5, a little disappointing tbh.
This thing would be really useful for marketing videogames and interactive experiences!! there is such thing as brand archetypes and audience archetypes but here you could use the corner areas as the archetypes and i would love to have a good version of it to understand the player base if i every want to make my ownplayerbase (i do) Thanks this is reeally awesome!
I love the idea. More than 3 dimensions are the coolest thing I ever learned it's just that I didn't found any interesting way to apply them and this video showcased exactly that. I might delve into the idea further In the future. Also after watching Excel video I have to say that damn your content is great
When I play TT RPGs I take roleplayer/scientist dichotomy, crumple it into a ball and eat it. I love role-playing my characters, the thing is: I make most of them scientists! I'll creating a character I find complex and interesting who's primary motivation happens to be a deep seeded fascination with some aspect of the world they live in. I will then spend the entire campaign fanning the fire of character's hyperfixation through any means available, both mechanics and role-play. One of my recent D&D characters was an artificer/druid who poured ever once of her 20 int into finding new ways to create bioengineered monstrosities. I would alternate back and forth between role-playing her conducting a thorough autopsy on the monster we just killed to learn the secrets of its anatomy and haggling with DM about which of its powers that knowledge lets her copy and imbue into her creations.
6th axis: familiarity vs novelty this video subverted my expectations somehow by repeating the trope of adding yet another axis while trying to name the combinations though I might argue that deduction vs exposition is actually quite similar to direct vs indirect challenge, and the two are similar enough to merge for purpose of funny distillations
i fr started yelling at this video because you seemed fixated on literally the exact opposite reason one would click on the video. i was like this person is a hack and needs to take a fucking xanax cause god damn. AND I FELL FOR IT. well played lmao
It gets a lot easier to understand when you stop treating dimensions as directions, and start treating them like variables. x is 1 dimension, y is another, so x+y has 2 dimensions.
ive somehow started on mathematics and category theory in the morning, took a break through gaming and then looped all the way back at mathematics when i was trying to research on worldbuilding
So what if I like all these things and appreciate when a game incorporates elements of all of them? The entire scope of what games have to offer compared to other media is a big reason I love them so much.
I loved when this video devolved into a beautifully long and drawn out and animated explanation of how mathematical dimensional analysis / visualization of powers of two works❤️❤️❤️ you’re so right it is NOT that complicated and very very useful
Ok so, I get that much of this video is about visualization, but still. I'm probably (mostly): Indirect Scientist Narrative Campaign Exposition So basically, I want the game to tell me how to use the mechanics, I then want to master and complexify doing using them, all while completing various problems with various options of how to complete them, with each complete problem giving cool story things. And also for it to occur over a long time. I do have occasional roleplayer tendencies though, and I do like some roguelikes which by nature are pretty episodically paced. I'm not really a big fan of direct challenges though, and I can take or leave mechanical rewards and deductive learning.
I think this is the most succinct annihilation of the idea of personality tests that I have ever seen.
On the contrary ;) The fact that no one test can measure every single thing about a person doesn't mean that tests are fundamentally useless, it just means you have to think about what information you think is most useful to focus on and which information you don't need to.
"Thermometers don't measure blood pressure and sphygmomanometer's don't measure temperature, so we shouldn't use them!" "Why not use the sphygmomanometer for blood pressure and use the thermometer for temperature?"
That's like saying that traffic laws aren't useful because they don't apply to planes in the same way.
@@Simpson17866 At the same time, it's clear here that what's actually happening when you build a personality test--or, when you think about it, any means of categorizing people or art--is that you're _trimming information away,_ not dredging up new information. (Something something 'create context'.) You cannot make a personality test that perfectly describes a person because, by its nature, a personality test makes someone easier to understand by blurring out details that are considered less important than what's measured by the test.
If there _were_ a perfect personality test that precisely captures everything about a person, it would be both indistinguishable from the person it's measuring and completely impossible to understand.
@@TehNoobiness That's not a bug, that's a feature ;)
Every single person you look at has more information about their identity than you could possibly categorize in a thousand lifetimes, so you have to ask yourself "which types of information about a person do I personally care most about most of the time?"
I for one don't tend to use D&D Alignment or MyersBriggs as much as I used to because I've decided that the information that the MTG Color Wheel tends to be more useful for my personal purposes - though I'm still perfectly comfortable combining them to explore more distinctions between more combinations :D
@Simpson17866 True, it's just worth bearing in mind that removing information is what 'creating context' really means :P
This was a fun ride. The first two "oops we need another axis" were immediate and expected, and then the titular tesseract goes on for so much longer that we get nice and comfortable sorting people into convenient boxes before getting slapped with the reminder that human complexity has endless layers
it always wraps back around to onions. Shrek was right.
you should make a website with a series of quizzes that tells you where you fall on the pentaract
My thoughts exactly
MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
yes
hexeract
SOMEONE PLEASE
The fact you already solved the visualization problem with just sliders and still proceeded to a pentaract
the sliders dont show you all the types in relation to eachother
Break down all dimensions into five one dimensional lines.
Not that hard, just slide left to right of the extreme of the other than having them there all at once. Sometimes, individuality makes simplicity, which could be preferable above complexity
@@NaurPor that still leaves the problem in my reply, see above.
@@AstroEli133 Tesseracts and pentaracts also dont solve this problem. Not every exact player is idetifiable in a Tesserect because as it is shown, it is just a three dimensional projection of a four dimensional object. At least one Dimension automatically gets lost.
For example take the "average player", a player that scores right in the middle on every possible measurement. Intuitively you would position that player right in the middle of the tesseract projection, but that would place him right in the middle of the campaign pacing cube which would contradict him being average.
If you wanted to solve this problem mathematically you would have to find a bijection from [0,1]^3 to [0,1]^4, which IS possible, for example with space filling curves, but it would be a really dumb visualisation, because it would be completely uncomprehensable.
@@zop5725 this is only aabout extremes
"The player type alignment tesseract is really, not as complicated as it looks", was the funniest line read I've heard in a long time.
The paradigm shift of understanding service dogs as a more complicated lab rats is brilliant, thank you
That had me rolling! 😂
@@EmethMatthew It had me sitting.
I love this geometry lesson disguised as a game design essay. Brilliant!
social science essay disguised as a geometry essay disguised as a game design essay
Well done! You successfully took a challenging math concept and explained it well.
Yeah, my thought mid-video, this is just an introduction to dimensions
This is as good a video about dimensionality without using that term as Yahtzee’s video on “post-punk” is on Hegelian dialectic.
pull out the linear algebra book everyone. we need to consider the case where these axes aren’t orthogonal
An interesting idea. I think it actually reduces the number of possible variants, because non-orthogonal axis mean that some attributes can be explained as a derivative of other attributes.
@ yeah but as long as all of the attributes are linearly independent from the others they can still be orthoganlized via gram schmidt or something and the number of variants is still the same. but honestly this was just a joke haha
**entire class of sleep-deprived and burned-out students groan in bored anguish**
Exactly, everyone is so hung up on visualization, but with some simple linear algebra, we can work with an arbitrarily complex n-dimensional vector space. Bonus points for sprinkling in a little bit of geometric algebra. Surely, without the limitations of human visualization, the information will be much more digestible...
I mean, you are still only aiming at 5 dimensions; if we're categorizing by extremes, then that's only 2^5 = 32 categories, which is actually pretty manageable. Still, this grows pretty fast, once you have 10 axis, you've got about 1000 categories, and you might as well make cute monster pictures to represent them and use them to fill up your Pokémon Romack at that point.
Dare you.
Make this a community project
1024
Player Type TCG when?
I made a similar observation. They could’ve used a simple cube with six cuboids on each side to create a 30 sided figure and an additional six sides from the original cube without breaking the laws of physics and has more than enough axes to assign each proposed one in the video.
I feel like I subconsciously saw that ending coming early on, but it still hit me like a truck full of bricks! Excellent foreshadowing, and masterfully crafted through and through!!
Ahh, my favorite genre of video essay: gradually descending into madness.
Also, I don't think scientist and roleplayer are really a dichotomy. I would personally put myself pretty high on roleplayer and scientist, though im not quite sure how to label the new axes. Regardless, the GAMEPLAY HEXATESSERACT IS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE ONCE YOU GET USED TO IT
*hexerract, and yes, REALLY QUITE sIMPLE
Same! I want to roleplay as a person with very sharp characteristics - they're _very_ competent at doing one or two things, and mechanically built to do that to the best of my game knowledge, but also have one or two glaring flaws that can and will cause problems.
On that note, I also really like it when my mechanical rewards and my narrative rewards come in one neat little package, so please understand thAT THE HEPTASSERACT IS REALLY NOT THAT COMPLEX IF YOU KEPT UP SO FAR
I like being the Roleplayer in Camaign like scale, and being like the Scientist on Episodic scale. Sometimes both in the same game at the same time. Just to break up the idea that people could even be placed on a single point of however many axis there need to be.
That just puts you in between the two.
The axis’s are ratios not discrete numbers.
I think we need a radar chart....
Came here from the Excel Game engine, channel is a gem. Have a sub.
me too 😂
Me three
Hyper too
I came from The Mole video. truly channel a gem
This video has the awesome side effect of being the best explanation of a tesseract I have ever seen
I stopped for a moment and paused the video and made the connection between the 2n “extrema” of the n-1 features on an nD cube
multivectors in n-dimensional Clifford algebras be like.
@@tzaphkielconficturus7136 so I'm a high school math student who has sort of exhausted my available math classes (rural schools am I right), would you recommend clifford calculus?
@@polygondeath2361 It's big and red
0:35 and this kids is what we call foreshadowing
And Crim, give her a math problem, and then throw in the words "player behavior" to distract from the fact that it's just a math problem
Woah! I didn't even catch that. Its a math video with words like "roleplay" and "campaign" to distract from the fact that it's a math video. Very slick!
I felt it was less foreshadowing and more the premise of the video
Instructions unclear. Opened the third eye and was brought to the gates of illucidation for questioning. AB testing with the angels revealed my cellphone games goals to be unclear and overwhelming.
My third eye opened with temu already auto-installed
Add enough dimensions and the diagram will have more player types than there are actual players, either that or the model evolves beyond simply describing the system and gets robust enough to make predictions about theoretical player types that haven't been observed yet, maybe even for axes of aspects that don't exist yet in current gaming experiences.
Because the player, the game and their interaction are all intrinsically tied to reality, Ellie Rasmussen proceeded to unify all fields of science and human knowledge and put forth The Grand Unified Player Type Field Theory, perfectly describing all possible types of players. The model is so all encompassing that it also describes the rest of existence as well.
"It's actually pretty simple once you get the hang of it"
- Ellie Rasmussen after using GUPTFT to prove free-will doesn't exist, 2034.
Still can't solve for dark matter
it's the pre-download of files for the next universe patch, don't worry about it
So this video was a lot of fun but I'm not actually sure putting the roleplayer and scientist as opposites is entirely correct. It's possible for someone to be extremely invested in exploring and breaking down a game's systems and also still be deeply invested in their own immersion, especially if the game allows for one to actively take on the role of someone solving the game, like in heavily logic-driven mystery/detective games.
This is distinct from simply sitting on the middle of a roleplay/science axis, which implies a willingness to sacrifice immersion if it means a chance to further engage with the mechanics or vice versa.
Ultimately I think this issue stems from one simple fact: The opposite of a roleplayer is simply a non-roleplayer. One's desire and willingness to be deeply immersed in a game can't be placed opposed to a competing desire, only a lack of that desire or a desire to avoid that aspect of games. Ultimately I think defining immersion and it's draws would require an entire tesseract of its own, almost entirely distinct from the original tesseract, perhaps then creating a two-component description of a player by combining the results of both a narrative/immersion tesseract and a mechanical structure tesseract. (Ultimately this is probably easily represented as another higher-dimensional shape, but I think actively conceptualizing it as two separate components has merit for both naming conventions and practical discussions, which could be more easily focused on one side or another.)
And while part of the point of this video is obviously poking fun at the idea of reducing people down to such simple structures, I actually think a two part system with cube or tesseract components could be a useful structure for discussing, analyzing, and simulating player tendencies without getting too deep into the depths of individuality.
Or maybe I'm overthinking a somewhat silly video about math, lol
Let's say that both faces can be fulfilled with a single point (conjectured 4D space), you have absolutely none of the options, or absolutely all of them, which then means correlation lines aren't going to suffice. We can further label groupings (like we are reducing a fraction that is too large, such as 2/6 reduced to 1/3), so a parent label for the types of option combos possible in each pair. I imagine both Sci and Rp combine to some form of high perception, and the neither label would be needing data from other categories to create a label indirectly (instead it just being choose your positive attribute, you now have negative space to indicate in polar opposite of your constructed ideals to compare, giving you more data) in the end product (the player type). Since these are all static YES or NOs, the 00,01,10,11 options for each provided pairing can be a fundamental basis for one more thing.
We can start adding infinite amounts of pairs! Since these combos are additive, and their impact directly correlates to the whole and not any of it's neighbors anymore, we can easily set requirements for each thing we make, and see exactly which players can interact with it or not in a predicted/assumed way. This means if we are absolutely sure a Scientist Roleplayer that is in constant love of being told what to do with things to discover (Sci+RP & direct + indirect), we can form a label higher up on our labeling scheme called Gamer(
absolutely none, or absolutely all, as an end to end range*
I forgot to say that part, sorry!!
I think thta isntead of the steryotype of the scientist the oposite of a roleplayer would be more akin to something like "The fps gamer", as in the guy who only cares about the mechanical aspect of the game, not the sotrytelling aspect of it. That will have less of the "does weird shit cause its cool" guys and would only be the the "combat is the only thing that matters rp is booooooooooring" kinda of players.
Optimizers would fall inbetween these categories, as they can enjoy both, depending on what they really like. On that note, I think we could actually get a new dimension/vector form this!
Tryhards (Or optmizers or comboers)/ The casuals
This would be a line from those who try to make the most viable characters they can to those who just make silly little guy with shit stats and weird spell selections.
The scientist steryotype can not work on it's own because there are multiple types of scientist and different aspects of the game mechanics they can enjoy! But both the FPS Gamers and the try hards split the "Focous on game mechanics" part, tho the first one is only mechanics focused and the second one can be a roleplay tryhard too
so we need to double the amount of axii so show the intensity with which each player desires an ineraction but onCE YOU GET THE PENTARACT DOWN THE PLAYER TYPE ALIGNMENT DEKERA-
Ironically, I never actually truly got tesseracts until now
..."ironically?"
Need a new video essay explaining the word "ironically"
@@quantumblur_3145 This would be remarkably helpful, yes. I hope we can expand it into a statespace of at least 3 dimensions.
@@tzaphkielconficturus7136 _Jreg flash_
After the fourth dimension it is usually more productive to ditch your eyes and embrace the pure and “unvisualizable” MATH
in 4 videos you have become my favourite person on youtube.
yeah for sure, all of these videos are amazing. personally can't wait til ellie blows up and I can brag about being here from before 500 subscribers, let alone 500,000
Very silly and holds many ideas. I look forward to more.
wait, this isn't about videogame design. this is just a way to trick me into learning four-dimensional visualization!
this is so good how had i never seen this before
Since I'm a Lab Rat. Here's a list of the mentioned types. (challenge type) Direct/Indirect, (interaction type) Roleplayer/Scientist, (reward type) Narrative/Mechanical, (pacing type) Campaign/Episodic, (learning type) Deduction/Exposition
[DR] Actor
[DRN] Captian America/Power Ranger
[DRNC] Hero
[DRMC] Anti-Hero
[DSME] Speedrunner
[DRME] Lab Rat
[IRME] Service Dog
[IRNE] Philosophy Student
Well [IS] could be "Solver", [IR] could be "Adapter" and [DS] could be "Refiner"
I tried making my own list of the tesseract ones, and got
DRNC - Hero
DRNE - Superman
DRMC - Anti-Hero
DRME - Bounty Hunter
DSNC - Explorer
DSNE - Lab Rat
DSMC - Optimizer
DSME - Speedrunner
IRNC - Paragon
IRNE - Detective
IRMC - Treasure Hunter
IRME - Game Show Contestant
ISNC - Theorist
ISNE - Philosophy Student
ISMC - Archaeologist
ISME - Mastermind
(i misplaced a couple, but i think the logic holds throughout or something)
This. This is what I was looking for@@wynnexed
Forget Myer Briggs and the zodiacs, which alignment tesseract vertice are you?
I think that "architect" would fit better than "archeologist", but the rest of them sound like really good descriptions. @wynnexed
"So in the end you end up with 16 extreme embodiments of the edges of the scales."
Ah, so this is the Myers-Briggs 16 personalities survey of the RPG world 😂
You are an expert in pacing with both concepts and humor and it makes the videos very enjoyable, its like there is always something to grab you either a progression in knowledge or a joke. Thank you for your efforts and the manner in which you convey your ideas
0:33 I want Little Guy To Talk To to appear again in future.
I LOVE BEING CATEGORIZED 🗣🗣🗣
I finally understand how to interpret the tesseract lol
Same ! Am so doped about it
I haven't just sat down and watched a video in a long time. This channel is perfect. It only needs more content.
this went from a fun thought experiment to a math lesson on 4 dimensions to a shitpost way faster than i ever expected
11:51 No Ellie, turn around! Don't step into the light! That place is not meant for mortals!
oh now i want to listen to you talk about the pentarract for like 30 minutes
now this is a youtuber who understands the brian david gilbert school of video essays
BDGU alum represent!!!
It can be made a game but this suddenly would turn into from a statistical system to a complex experiment of cultur-anthropological biases of gamers in one specific demographic who would be interested about being part of a survey.
Like even in a impossible scenario where you make an amazing game and a good enough tool to test this still there are the things what would cause incredible biases, because games need to be a proper way in a sense so that they are playable. If you want to test what the player lacks in interest they have to face something they don’t want to face and then make them feel win or lose in a way it doesn’t hurt their ego.
Just found your Excel-as-GameEngine/WhatIsAGameEngine video..which compelled me back through your work to here, so far, and I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the intrigue of the ideas and the well-paced, fun, minimalist illustrative clarity of presentation a lot - stand out quality!
This video, in particular, relates to many points of personal interest..resonates with many attractors I’m drawn to..personality modeling..generally modeling and investigating systems of related ideas in pursuit of insights gleaned through coherently mapping and clarifying essential features, dynamics, and implications..the inspiring viability of usefully discretizing and modeling reality and the profound scope-creep encounterable in pursuit of perfect, comprehensive modeling..intuitive use of >3D modeling..D&D..
Anyway - you're a gem and I strongly appreciate what you do. ,{^_^}”
4:05 also would like to point out that sometimes a narrative reward can be seeing the characters interact more. The DLCs for Splatoon show you moments with the characters as you beat more levels and it’s the primary reason I wanted to play more levels, because Pearl and Marina are just SO CUTE TOGETHER and I wanna see them and Nintendo are BASTARDS for withholding their interactions from us (but I wouldn’t want it any other way(except like with more unlockable))
Oh my god, I've found my favorite channel ever
This is now one of my most beloved youtube videos. Thank you.
So we can all agree that: indirect, roleplayer, narrative, campaign, deduction is just matpat right?
he's opposite from deduction
Once I reach the Cube, I normally represent additional alignment dimensions as RGB values before I try to make things HyperSpatial.
( R, G, and B can each be a single axis, and it isn't hard for computers to convert Hexadecimal fractions in to percentages )
I have never understood the illustration of the tesseract before this video. what a great framing device
I finally understand what a tesseract is
this is one of my faovrite digs at trying to categorize how people enjoy things: i tend to enjoy all aspects of games so its never been something ive ever put stock in
you sound like frankenstein on his fifth month of making a person [compliment]
Essentially, this is a Jreg video
This sounds like a college lecture by someone much older than me in the best way possible
Color! Shading! Texture! Vibration mode / frequency / oscillation! Furriness / smoothness!
Come on, you got this. :D
i cant tell you how much i loved this video, amazing work
Ellie Rasmussen's Player Type Alignment Pentaract.
I love your energy and I vibe with your content more than I thought I could a youtuber’s. Epic
There is also the calm (sudoku, sims) vs non-calm games (Mario, first person shooter)
this is such a direct challenge scientist narrative reward episodic pacing player video to make
This one of the funniest videos I've seen in months! So accurate,,, this is exactly what it's like trying to explain your interests to other people 😂
Challenge Pref [Direct|Indirect]
Interaction Pref [Roleplay|Science]
Reward Pref [Narrative|Mechanical]
Pacing Pref [Campaign|Episodic]
Learning Pref [Deduction|Exposition]
Now This is An Middle School Level Threat
"Lets find an interesting video to listen while I clean my room, something light and simple"
The video:
I think I found one of my favourite new youtubers.
Thank you for creating this gem of a video on such a topic, it made my day
When you added the third dimension, I started getting excited and I said to myself "Why stop with 3? Ooh, I bet this video is going to end in some mathematics!". Now I'm half the way through, I can see it coming...
Edit: only 5, a little disappointing tbh.
Imagine if someone was to try to capture every detail that makes player different. just imagine cube having like 20 dimensions
The most impressive thing this video did for me was finally make me understand why a tesseract is represented that way.
i love this. game design humor and philosophy humor.
glad to know that trying to solve problems by creating increasingly complicated multi-dimensional grids isn't something only I do😂
Combining TTRPG story telling and Cosmological Multi-dimensional Geometry? Oh yeah, I'm in the right place...
This is my new fav channel
i genuinely did not understand tesseracts until this video.. thank u
I get the feeling you were the sort of kid who played Super Tic-Tac-Toe
This thing would be really useful for marketing videogames and interactive experiences!! there is such thing as brand archetypes and audience archetypes but here you could use the corner areas as the archetypes and i would love to have a good version of it to understand the player base if i every want to make my ownplayerbase (i do)
Thanks this is reeally awesome!
Activision's hiring more unethical people if you need a job
I love the idea. More than 3 dimensions are the coolest thing I ever learned it's just that I didn't found any interesting way to apply them and this video showcased exactly that. I might delve into the idea further In the future. Also after watching Excel video I have to say that damn your content is great
When I play TT RPGs I take roleplayer/scientist dichotomy, crumple it into a ball and eat it. I love role-playing my characters, the thing is: I make most of them scientists! I'll creating a character I find complex and interesting who's primary motivation happens to be a deep seeded fascination with some aspect of the world they live in. I will then spend the entire campaign fanning the fire of character's hyperfixation through any means available, both mechanics and role-play.
One of my recent D&D characters was an artificer/druid who poured ever once of her 20 int into finding new ways to create bioengineered monstrosities. I would alternate back and forth between role-playing her conducting a thorough autopsy on the monster we just killed to learn the secrets of its anatomy and haggling with DM about which of its powers that knowledge lets her copy and imbue into her creations.
Wait I need to know the full layout of the pentaract!
amazing video, amazing subject, and it was made by a fellow nerdy girl!!!! :3
This is gold. Glad i found you.
you guys are seriously my new favourite channel, ive been LOVING every video!!
2:00 oh god I HOPE the director isn’t still directing on opening night, everyone better be off book or istg
6th axis: familiarity vs novelty
this video subverted my expectations somehow by repeating the trope of adding yet another axis while trying to name the combinations
though I might argue that deduction vs exposition is actually quite similar to direct vs indirect challenge, and the two are similar enough to merge for purpose of funny distillations
This appeals to me many in so many specific ways, excellent execution, have a subscribe.
Up Next: Learning to solve for your own player type with Linear Algebra
this may be teaching me more about 4D Geometry than game design
i fr started yelling at this video because you seemed fixated on literally the exact opposite reason one would click on the video. i was like this person is a hack and needs to take a fucking xanax cause god damn. AND I FELL FOR IT. well played lmao
Someone needs to make a personality type quiz out of this
It gets a lot easier to understand when you stop treating dimensions as directions, and start treating them like variables.
x is 1 dimension, y is another, so x+y has 2 dimensions.
this has become my new favorite channel omg
ive somehow started on mathematics and category theory in the morning, took a break through gaming and then looped all the way back at mathematics when i was trying to research on worldbuilding
Myers Briggs for gamers
Today I learned I'm the service dog
This is a perfect intersection of my interests, thank you
A n-th dimensional geometry lesson disguised as a video about role player gamers... The video IS the fire damage math problem you mentioned.
Wait this is the first time I've ever actually understood what a tesseract is. Holy shit.
Absolute masterpiece of a video, I've got the dumbest smile on my face
haha fantastic ending!
So what if I like all these things and appreciate when a game incorporates elements of all of them? The entire scope of what games have to offer compared to other media is a big reason I love them so much.
I feel like I learned more about geometry in this video than I did about player types.
Wake up babe, gamer MBTI dropped
i've been waiting for the 5th axis this entire time and boy fuckin' howdy you _did not_ disappoint
I loved when this video devolved into a beautifully long and drawn out and animated explanation of how mathematical dimensional analysis / visualization of powers of two works❤️❤️❤️ you’re so right it is NOT that complicated and very very useful
Ok so, I get that much of this video is about visualization, but still.
I'm probably (mostly):
Indirect
Scientist
Narrative
Campaign
Exposition
So basically, I want the game to tell me how to use the mechanics, I then want to master and complexify doing using them, all while completing various problems with various options of how to complete them, with each complete problem giving cool story things. And also for it to occur over a long time.
I do have occasional roleplayer tendencies though, and I do like some roguelikes which by nature are pretty episodically paced. I'm not really a big fan of direct challenges though, and I can take or leave mechanical rewards and deductive learning.
idc if you are breaking down personality tests I want this so bad
makes it funner ngl unless a personality test saved your family from an orphan